---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/19/07: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:01 AM - Re: transponders (alex_01) 2. 02:14 AM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (Bryan Martin) 3. 04:16 AM - Re: Re: Horz Stabilizer (RClaggf4u@aol.com) 4. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (Ken Lilja) 5. 05:45 AM - 701 cover (Tommy Walker) 6. 06:14 AM - Swinging the compass (John Bolding) 7. 06:30 AM - Re: 701 cover (Ben52425@aol.com) 8. 06:43 AM - Re: Is this XL firewall drawing wrong? (ken smith) 9. 07:17 AM - Stainjless Steel Rivets (Kevin L. Rupert) 10. 10:41 AM - Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (charles.long@gm.com) 11. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (Juan Vega) 12. 11:39 AM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) () 13. 11:51 AM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 14. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (robert stone) 15. 12:08 PM - Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (Mitch Hodges) 16. 12:24 PM - Re: 701 cover (Aaron Gustafson) 17. 12:59 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 18. 01:06 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Gig Giacona) 19. 02:37 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned () 20. 03:41 PM - Re: Swinging the compass (Klaus Truemper) 21. 04:16 PM - Re: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) (Juan Vega) 22. 04:53 PM - Re: 701 cover (Gary Boothe) 23. 05:04 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Southern Reflections) 24. 05:34 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Bryan Martin) 25. 05:37 PM - Re: 701 cover (Aaron Gustafson) 26. 05:39 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 27. 05:43 PM - Re: 701 cover (Tommy Walker) 28. 06:03 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Dave Austin) 29. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: 701 cover (Aaron Gustafson) 30. 06:32 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Southern Reflections) 31. 07:05 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Southern Reflections) 32. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: Swinging the compass (Tim Shankland) 33. 07:46 PM - Re: Corvair folk: new posting on William Wynne's web site (Falcon) 34. 09:38 PM - Re: Re: Swinging the compass (Craig Payne) 35. 09:55 PM - Re: green paint (Jimbo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:01:56 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: transponders From: "alex_01" I have a very nice GARMIN 320 for sale as we have to change to MODE S Transponders. Unit was just installed for approx 45hrs. Works very nice no warm up period if anybody interested please contact me. zoechling@gmx.de Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119320#119320 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00008_134.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:14:40 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) On my airplane, air comes IN from the tailcone area and escapes through the sides of the canopy. The boot around my control stick tends to baloon out and I can unzip the boot and get additional airflow into the cabin. Somehow, the tailcone is slightly pressureized. The only other air intake I have into the cabin is the NACA vents in the forward cabin sides. > > One of my concerns is air movement while flying. I assume some of > the air that comes in via the cool air scoops escapes around the > canopy seal, but I wonder if that is enough. An opening in the > rear baggage area bulkhead would vent into the tailcone which I'm > thinking would be an area of slight negative pressure. That might > be enough to help cool air (and heat in the winter) move thru the > cockpit. You could even build a vent into the underside of the > fuselage if you wanted to. You could also follow Mark's advice and > take it a little farther with the muffin fans. I haven't made my > decision yet. > > I think a canopy cover with a reflective outer surface would be a > good item to use while parked outside in the sun. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:47 AM PST US From: RClaggf4u@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Horz Stabilizer Thanks to all that responded. Its amazing how you can look overlook something for hours. Just goes to show that you shuold quit when you get tired ! Thanks again, I really appreciate your help. Wayne Clagg 701 on gear and rigging. Do not archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:26 AM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) Most good compasses (and all aviation compasses) have compensation screws. Use a brass screwdriver to adjust the compass with all the normal electronics on. The process is called swinging the compass. You need to find an airport with a compass rose. Or you could lay one out. Don't lay one out on rebar reinforced concrete or near metal buildings. Then you taxi around and re-align the plane and keep tweaking the process. It kind of looks like the movies of bees dancing to tell the others where to find the flowers. If there is not enough adjustment available a small weak magnet can be set so it works. I wounder if a non - adjusted compass satisfies the basic equipment rules. Electrical noise from the fan should not be a problem. Twist the leads to the fan and maybe add a small capacitor at the fan. Ken Lilja do not archive Jeff Small wrote: > I too plan to install a fan to cool the electronics. I was thinking > though I would > install in in the top skin under the canopy and let it pull air over the > electronics. > This could also create a defogger for the canopy. > > Hi Gig, > > Won't the magnet in the fan motor disrupt the magnetic compass? > > jeff > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 cover From: "Tommy Walker" Listers, I'm looking for a cover for the cabin on my 701. I searched the archive for "cover" and got 2900+ returns. So, I will check here. Does anyone know someone who makes covers? Thanks, Tommy Walker in Alabama Gettin Close... ...but not as close as Rick Do Not Archive -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119348#119348 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:34 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Zenith-List: Swinging the compass Never thought of the fact that all those compass rose's I've seen in the last 50 yrs were placed over sections of the runway that didn't have any rebar in them. I learn something every day. :>) LOW&SLO John The process is called swinging the compass. You need to find an airport with a compass rose. Or you could lay one out. Don't lay one out on rebar reinforced concrete or near metal buildings. > jeff ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:40 AM PST US From: Ben52425@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 cover HI GOT MY COVER FROM BRUCE COVER, S. IN CAL. FOR MY 601 FIT. S PERFECT HOPE THIS HELP, S BEN ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:45 AM PST US From: ken smith Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Is this XL firewall drawing wrong? I was also in the same boat that you are. There is a conflict with the two drawings. I drew the firewall assembly in autocad to check to see if there were any more gotchas. If you can read these drawings, I can send them to you. Pls specify the autocad revision you need. Ken --- chris Sinfield wrote: > > > Can someone who is about the same building as me > please confirm or deny that the side firewall > drawing is wrong on 6-B-7. > > OK turn to the page and look at the top Engine mount > location. On the drawing it shows the bottom of > 6B7-2 as level with 6B7-1. Now if you add the width > of 6B7-1 30mm and the 20 mm of the Langle that adds > up to 50mm. The width of 6B7-2 is 60mm How can they > be level at the top and bottom as the drawing > shows.. ??? I have the latest set > > My firewall has the 10mm split and that is what made > it not jell when putting in the top firewall bolt. > > So what gives have I made a mistake or is the > drawing wrong? > > Chris. > Zodiac XL > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119045#119045 > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Web Forums! > > > > > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:27 AM PST US From: "Kevin L. Rupert" Subject: Zenith-List: Stainjless Steel Rivets Guys, I called the factory and got my SS rivets today. They are designated as an AS5. They are a 5/32nd rivet with 3-5 mm grip range. The parts lady told me the only number she has for them is 0512. I don't know if that's a P/N or what. They are 15 cents @ and can be shipped USPS. The XL takes 23 rivets for the whole plane according to Zenith. I ordered 50 just in case. Kevin R. 601XL/ Corvair ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:19 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned From: charles.long@gm.com A friend of mine who also flies a Zodie Rocket had an issue on takeoff the other day. His engine began to stumble right after liftoff on a 90 degree day. He immediately cut power and landed. Fortunately he had plenty of runway. After assessing the situation, he found that he had inadvertently turned on the electric fuel pump at the base of the wrong tank. Two lessons to be learned here: ALWAYS USE THE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP FOR BACKUP ON TAKEOFF AND LANDING. SECONDLY, IF USING SEPARATE ELECTRIC PUMPS FOR EACH TANK, CONFIRM YOU ARE USING THE RIGHT ONE. This incident was with the Rotax 912s using auto fuel. It has been reported that auto fuel has a higher vapor lock potential so the electric fuel pumps tend to be even more critical for avoiding vapor lock issues. If the pump is at the base of the tank, the problem is virtually eliminated since pressurized fuel won't vapor lock. Before we bad mouth the 912s, I would argue that vapor lock is not an engine-specific problem. I also had a vapor lock problem with my Jab involving a restrictive fuel filter. The electric pump application immediately corrected the vapor lock condition as reported below: From: Charles F. Long on 06/20/2005 11:40 AM cc: micheintz@gmail.com Subject: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned I experienced an engine stoppage during one of my first flights. It occurred at altitude using cruise power with the Aux pump off. The engine immediately restarted after turning the Aux pump on (windmilling propellor, so engine starter was not required). I repeated the stoppage a second time by shutting the pump off and confirmed that the Aux pump was required to keep the engine running. My airplane configuration is as follows: 601HDS built from Kit Jabiru 3300A purchased with FWD from ZAC Finger screens in the tank Dual Aux Facet pumps in wing root mounted close to the tank Selector valve on the floor just forward of the wing spar Single line feeding the Gascolator just aft of the firewall Jabiru Engine fuel pump in series with Aux pumps Bosch Metal Can auto fuel filter downstream of the Jab pump Fuel pressure sensor downstream of the Bosch filter Outside air temp - 80 F Jabiru recommends installing the fuel filter upstream rather than downstream of their fuel pump. I did not follow this practice as I was concerned about installing a filter on the suction side of the pump. The fuel system was designed to run at low pressures (<2 psi). The Bosch filter may have caused a high enough pressure drop to induce Vapor Lock. Fuel flow was tested before the first flight using the Aux pumps and flow was confirmed to be over 20 gph. The test was repeated after this incident and continued to be over 20 gph. The flow was never tested using the Jabiru pump alone. The Jabiru pump was disassembled and showed no indications of a problem or contamination. The Bosch filter was discarded and per the recommendations of those on the Matronics list, a Flow Ezy stainless mesh filter (A S & S, p/n 05-28905) was installed upstream of the Jab pump. The Flow Ezy filter, though rather expensive (close to $100), provides high flow/low pressure drop. This appears to have cured the problem as I have had no additional issues after 6 hours additional flight time. This includes several full power climbs with Aux pumps off. Looking back on this, I should have used the high flow, stainless filter from the get-go. Fortunately, the plane was designed with fuel pump redundancy and the Aux pumps were used during Takeoff and Landing. I hesitate to air my dirty laundry here, but hopefully it will help some other builders to avoid the same mistake. CFL Clear Skies! Chuck Long, CFI Zodie Rocket N601LE, 110 hr TT ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:40 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) on needed requitrement, the DAR and FAA will be looking for a compass deviation card in the plane, so you want to go through the motions. Everyone is telling me compass not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to navigate in case the panel goes out. I have used the copmass to get my self out of a pickle in times when rented a plane with iffy DGs. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Ken Lilja >Sent: Jun 19, 2007 8:43 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) > > >Most good compasses (and all aviation compasses) have compensation >screws. Use a brass screwdriver to adjust the compass with all the >normal electronics on. The process is called swinging the compass. You >need to find an airport with a compass rose. Or you could lay one out. > Don't lay one out on rebar reinforced concrete or near metal >buildings. Then you taxi around and re-align the plane and keep >tweaking the process. It kind of looks like the movies of bees dancing >to tell the others where to find the flowers. If there is not enough >adjustment available a small weak magnet can be set so it works. I >wounder if a non - adjusted compass satisfies the basic equipment rules. > Electrical noise from the fan should not be a problem. Twist the >leads to the fan and maybe add a small capacitor at the fan. >Ken Lilja > do not archive > >Jeff Small wrote: >> I too plan to install a fan to cool the electronics. I was thinking >> though I would >> install in in the top skin under the canopy and let it pull air over the >> electronics. >> This could also create a defogger for the canopy. >> >> Hi Gig, >> >> Won't the magnet in the fan motor disrupt the magnetic compass? >> >> jeff >> >> do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:12 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) There are two good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a very acidic environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion. Second the visibility is far below VFR minimums. This includes kosher varieties. Carry on. Smoke 'em if you got 'em. Ed ---- Juan Vega wrote: Everyone is telling me compass not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to navigate in case the panel goes out. I have used the copmass to get my self out of a pickle in times when rented a plane with iffy DGs. > > Juan ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:26 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) Too funny, Ed. I needed a good laugh today. Tracy Smith N458XL reserved do not archive In a message dated 6/19/2007 1:40:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, dredmoody@cox.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: There are two good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a very acidic environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion. Second the visibility is far below VFR minimums. This includes kosher varieties. Carry on. Smoke 'em if you got 'em. Ed ---- Juan Vega wrote: Everyone is telling me compass not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to navigate in case the panel goes out. I have used the copmass to get my self out of a pickle in times when rented a plane with iffy DGs. > > Juan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:03 AM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) Ed, If this is like all the other aviation nets I have been on, you are bound to get some sore head static from the pickle remark. As for me I have a great sense of humor and therefor thought it was funny as hell. Tracy Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:37 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) > > There are two good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a > very acidic environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion. > Second the visibility is far below VFR minimums. This includes kosher > varieties. > > Carry on. Smoke 'em if you got 'em. > > Ed > > ---- Juan Vega wrote: Everyone is telling me > compass not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to > navigate in case the panel goes out. I have used the copmass to get my > self out of a pickle in times when rented a plane with iffy DGs. >> >> Juan > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) From: "Mitch Hodges" >There are two good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a very acidic environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion.... And here I thought it was because their Scotchbrite green coloring that was the problem. Who knew! DO NOT ARCHIVE APOLOGIZING IN ADVANCE Mitch Hodges -------- N601MH (Zenith 601HDS) Wings Under Construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119467#119467 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:35 PM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 cover I made one from a vinyl table cloth. Water proof, fuzzy back, fits good, cheap! Wallmart. do not archive. Aaron 5 hours working on cooling issues > message posted by: "Tommy Walker" > I'm looking for a cover for the cabin on my 701. I searched the archive > for "cover" and got ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:21 PM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned Gentlemen: Charles makes a number of very good points here...but I have a question or two: - I'm looking to put a facet pump right at the base of each tank so the whole run is pressurized fuel to reduce vapor lock. Charles says to be sure the correct pump is turned on....is there any danger to the facet pumps by running one 'deadheaded' right into the fuel selector...that way both pumps can be wired to ONE switch to eliminate pilot error. - there was a prolific lister here some time ago that was exceptionally knowledgeable on vapor lock issues. He suggested eliminating the fuel selector completely and running a check valve at the outlet of each pump. That way BOTH pumps could supply fuel during takeoff and landing and ONE pump can run during cruise. When one pump is running, the check valve(s) will eliminate crossfeeding from one tank to another. In addition, by using a 2-gang rotary switch wired Left-Right-Left+Right there is no way the plane can suffer from NO pumps on due to pilot error. My only problem with this setup is that the one fuel pump switch presents a single point of failure....... Any thoughts?? Thanks Tracy Smith N458XL (reserved) Do Not Archive In a message dated 6/19/2007 12:42:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, charles.long@gm.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com A friend of mine who also flies a Zodie Rocket had an issue on takeoff the other day. His engine began to stumble right after liftoff on a 90 degree day. He immediately cut power and landed. Fortunately he had plenty of runway. After assessing the situation, he found that he had inadvertently turned on the electric fuel pump at the base of the wrong tank. Two lessons to be learned here: ALWAYS USE THE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP FOR BACKUP ON TAKEOFF AND LANDING. SECONDLY, IF USING SEPARATE ELECTRIC PUMPS FOR EACH TANK, CONFIRM YOU ARE USING THE RIGHT ONE. This incident was with the Rotax 912s using auto fuel. It has been reported that auto fuel has a higher vapor lock potential so the electric fuel pumps tend to be even more critical for avoiding vapor lock issues. If the pump is at the base of the tank, the problem is virtually eliminated since pressurized fuel won't vapor lock. Before we bad mouth the 912s, I would argue that vapor lock is not an engine-specific problem. I also had a vapor lock problem with my Jab involving a restrictive fuel filter. The electric pump application immediately corrected the vapor lock condition as reported below: From: Charles F. Long on 06/20/2005 11:40 AM cc: micheintz@gmail.com Subject: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned I experienced an engine stoppage during one of my first flights. It occurred at altitude using cruise power with the Aux pump off. The engine immediately restarted after turning the Aux pump on (windmilling propellor, so engine starter was not required). I repeated the stoppage a second time by shutting the pump off and confirmed that the Aux pump was required to keep the engine running. My airplane configuration is as follows: 601HDS built from Kit Jabiru 3300A purchased with FWD from ZAC Finger screens in the tank Dual Aux Facet pumps in wing root mounted close to the tank Selector valve on the floor just forward of the wing spar Single line feeding the Gascolator just aft of the firewall Jabiru Engine fuel pump in series with Aux pumps Bosch Metal Can auto fuel filter downstream of the Jab pump Fuel pressure sensor downstream of the Bosch filter Outside air temp - 80 F Jabiru recommends installing the fuel filter upstream rather than downstream of their fuel pump. I did not follow this practice as I was concerned about installing a filter on the suction side of the pump. The fuel system was designed to run at low pressures (<2 psi). The Bosch filter may have caused a high enough pressure drop to induce Vapor Lock. Fuel flow was tested before the first flight using the Aux pumps and flow was confirmed to be over 20 gph. The test was repeated after this incident and continued to be over 20 gph. The flow was never tested using the Jabiru pump alone. The Jabiru pump was disassembled and showed no indications of a problem or contamination. The Bosch filter was discarded and per the recommendations of those on the Matronics list, a Flow Ezy stainless mesh filter (A S & S, p/n 05-28905) was installed upstream of the Jab pump. The Flow Ezy filter, though rather expensive (close to $100), provides high flow/low pressure drop. This appears to have cured the problem as I have had no additional issues after 6 hours additional flight time. This includes several full power climbs with Aux pumps off. Looking back on this, I should have used the high flow, stainless filter from the get-go. Fortunately, the plane was designed with fuel pump redundancy and the Aux pumps were used during Takeoff and Landing. I hesitate to air my dirty laundry here, but hopefully it will help some other builders to avoid the same mistake. CFL Clear Skies! Chuck Long, CFI Zodie Rocket N601LE, 110 hr TT ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:02 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned From: "Gig Giacona" This has been discussed and I will say the same thing I said then. Get a glass of water and two drinking straws. Put both straws in your mouth. Put one straw in the water and the other outside the glass. Now suck. The outcome is exactly what will happen if one fuel tank is empty. [quote="crvsecretary"]Gentlemen: Charles makes a number of very good points here...but I have a question or two: - I'm looking to put a facet pump right at the base of each tank so the whole run is pressurized fuel to reduce vapor lock. Charles says to be sure the correct pump is turned on....is there any danger to the facet pumps by running one 'deadheaded' right into the fuel selector...that way both pumps can be wired to ONE switch to eliminate pilot error. - there was a prolific lister here some time ago that was exceptionally knowledgeable on vapor lock issues. He suggested eliminating the fuel selector completely and running a check valve at the outlet of each pump. That way BOTH pumps could supply fuel during takeoff and landing and ONE pump can run during cruise. When one pump is running, the check valve(s) will eliminate crossfeeding from one tank to another. In addition, by using a 2-gang rotary switch wired Left-Right-Left+Right there is no way the plane can suffer from NO pumps on due to pilot error. My only problem with this setup is that the one fuel pump switch presents a single point of failure....... Any thoughts?? Thanks Tracy Smith N458XL (reserved) Do Not Archive In a message dated 6/19/2007 12:42:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, charles.long@gm.com writes: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com > > > A friend of mine who also flies a Zodie Rocket had an issue on > takeoff the other day. His engine began to stumble right after liftoff on a > 90 degree day. He immediately cut power and landed. Fortunately he had > plenty of runway. After assessing the situation, he found that he had > inadvertently turned on the electric fuel pump at the base of the wrong > tank. Two lessons to be learned here: ALWAYS USE THE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP FOR > BACKUP ON TAKEOFF AND LANDING. SECONDLY, IF USING SEPARATE ELECTRIC PUMPS > FOR EACH TANK, CONFIRM YOU ARE USING THE RIGHT ONE. This incident was with > the Rotax 912s using auto fuel. It has been reported that auto fuel has a > higher vapor lock potential so the electric fuel pumps tend to be even more > critical for avoiding vapor lock issues. If the pump is at the base of the > tank, the problem is virtually eliminated since pressurized fuel won't > vapor lock. > > Before we bad mouth the 912s, I would argue that vapor lock is not an > engine-specific problem. I also had a vapor lock problem with my Jab > involving a restrictive fuel filter. The electric pump application > immediately corrected the vapor lock condition as reported below: > > > From: Charles F. Long on 06/20/2005 11:40 AM > > To: Zenith-List Digest List > cc: micheintz@gmail.com > Subject: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned > > I experienced an engine stoppage during one of my first flights. It > occurred at altitude using cruise power with the Aux pump off. The engine > immediately restarted after turning the Aux pump on (windmilling propellor, > so engine starter was not required). I repeated the stoppage a second time > by shutting the pump off and confirmed that the Aux pump was required to > keep the engine running. My airplane configuration is as follows: > > 601HDS built from Kit > Jabiru 3300A purchased with FWD from ZAC > Finger screens in the tank > Dual Aux Facet pumps in wing root mounted close to the tank > Selector valve on the floor just forward of the wing spar > Single line feeding the Gascolator just aft of the firewall > Jabiru Engine fuel pump in series with Aux pumps > Bosch Metal Can auto fuel filter downstream of the Jab pump > Fuel pressure sensor downstream of the Bosch filter > Outside air temp - 80 F > > Jabiru recommends installing the fuel filter upstream rather than > downstream of their fuel pump. I did not follow this practice as I was > concerned about installing a filter on the suction side of the pump. > > The fuel system was designed to run at low pressures ( -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119484#119484 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:04 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned I agree with Gig that you want a "Right - Left - Off" valve arrangement ,not a "Right - Left - Both" type of arrangement. If both tanks are connected to the fuel system at the same time and one is empty or very low, that low tank constitutes a problem that the full one does not compensate for. Now as for having both pumps run whenever the (single) switch is "on", I don't think it would be a problem in the operation of fuel delivery but it may not be good for the pump that is pushing against a closed valve. You could check that out with the manufacturer of the pump. If the pump is not run dry, it may not harm it to run against the closed valve. Dred ---- Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote: > > Gentlemen: > > Charles makes a number of very good points here...but I have a question or > two: > > - I'm looking to put a facet pump right at the base of each tank so the > whole run is pressurized fuel to reduce vapor lock. Charles says to be sure the > correct pump is turned on....is there any danger to the facet pumps by > running one 'deadheaded' right into the fuel selector...that way both pumps can be > wired to ONE switch to eliminate pilot error. > > - there was a prolific lister here some time ago that was exceptionally > knowledgeable on vapor lock issues. He suggested eliminating the fuel selector > completely and running a check valve at the outlet of each pump. That way > BOTH pumps could supply fuel during takeoff and landing and ONE pump can run > during cruise. When one pump is running, the check valve(s) will eliminate > crossfeeding from one tank to another. In addition, by using a 2-gang rotary > switch wired Left-Right-Left+Right there is no way the plane can suffer from NO > pumps on due to pilot error. My only problem with this setup is that the > one fuel pump switch presents a single point of failure....... > > Any thoughts?? > > Thanks > > Tracy Smith > N458XL (reserved) > Do Not Archive > > > > In a message dated 6/19/2007 12:42:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, > charles.long@gm.com writes: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com > > > A friend of mine who also flies a Zodie Rocket had an issue on > takeoff the other day. His engine began to stumble right after liftoff on a > 90 degree day. He immediately cut power and landed. Fortunately he had > plenty of runway. After assessing the situation, he found that he had > inadvertently turned on the electric fuel pump at the base of the wrong > tank. Two lessons to be learned here: ALWAYS USE THE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP FOR > BACKUP ON TAKEOFF AND LANDING. SECONDLY, IF USING SEPARATE ELECTRIC PUMPS > FOR EACH TANK, CONFIRM YOU ARE USING THE RIGHT ONE. This incident was with > the Rotax 912s using auto fuel. It has been reported that auto fuel has a > higher vapor lock potential so the electric fuel pumps tend to be even more > critical for avoiding vapor lock issues. If the pump is at the base of the > tank, the problem is virtually eliminated since pressurized fuel won't > vapor lock. > > Before we bad mouth the 912s, I would argue that vapor lock is not an > engine-specific problem. I also had a vapor lock problem with my Jab > involving a restrictive fuel filter. The electric pump application > immediately corrected the vapor lock condition as reported below: > > > From: Charles F. Long on 06/20/2005 11:40 AM > > To: Zenith-List Digest List > cc: micheintz@gmail.com > Subject: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned > > I experienced an engine stoppage during one of my first flights. It > occurred at altitude using cruise power with the Aux pump off. The engine > immediately restarted after turning the Aux pump on (windmilling propellor, > so engine starter was not required). I repeated the stoppage a second time > by shutting the pump off and confirmed that the Aux pump was required to > keep the engine running. My airplane configuration is as follows: > > 601HDS built from Kit > Jabiru 3300A purchased with FWD from ZAC > Finger screens in the tank > Dual Aux Facet pumps in wing root mounted close to the tank > Selector valve on the floor just forward of the wing spar > Single line feeding the Gascolator just aft of the firewall > Jabiru Engine fuel pump in series with Aux pumps > Bosch Metal Can auto fuel filter downstream of the Jab pump > Fuel pressure sensor downstream of the Bosch filter > Outside air temp - 80 F > > Jabiru recommends installing the fuel filter upstream rather than > downstream of their fuel pump. I did not follow this practice as I was > concerned about installing a filter on the suction side of the pump. > > The fuel system was designed to run at low pressures (<2 psi). The > Bosch filter may have caused a high enough pressure drop to induce Vapor > Lock. Fuel flow was tested before the first flight using the Aux pumps and > flow was confirmed to be over 20 gph. The test was repeated after this > incident and continued to be over 20 gph. The flow was never tested using > the Jabiru pump alone. The Jabiru pump was disassembled and showed no > indications of a problem or contamination. > > The Bosch filter was discarded and per the recommendations of those > on the Matronics list, a Flow Ezy stainless mesh filter (A S & S, p/n > 05-28905) was installed upstream of the Jab pump. The Flow Ezy filter, > though rather expensive (close to $100), provides high flow/low pressure > drop. This appears to have cured the problem as I have had no additional > issues after 6 hours additional flight time. This includes several full > power climbs with Aux pumps off. > > Looking back on this, I should have used the high flow, stainless > filter from the get-go. Fortunately, the plane was designed with fuel pump > redundancy and the Aux pumps were used during Takeoff and Landing. > > I hesitate to air my dirty laundry here, but hopefully it will help > some other builders to avoid the same mistake. CFL > > > Clear Skies! > Chuck Long, CFI > Zodie Rocket > N601LE, 110 hr TT > > > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:35 PM PST US From: Klaus Truemper Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Swinging the compass Hi John, There is an alternate method for getting correct directions when swinging the compass. You turn on the GPS unit and let the plane roll forward a small distance, say 15 ft. If it is a good GPS unit, it will tell you the direction with utter precision. BTW, this is a quick way to recheck the compass periodically. Happy flying, Klaus -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus@utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:36 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) if you have issues with the pickle................go kosher! Juan -----Original Message----- >From: robert stone >Sent: Jun 19, 2007 2:55 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) > > >Ed, > If this is like all the other aviation nets I have been on, you are >bound to get some sore head static from the pickle remark. As for me I have >a great sense of humor and therefor thought it was funny as hell. > >Tracy Stone > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:37 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit) > > >> >> There are two good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a >> very acidic environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion. >> Second the visibility is far below VFR minimums. This includes kosher >> varieties. >> >> Carry on. Smoke 'em if you got 'em. >> >> Ed >> >> ---- Juan Vega wrote: Everyone is telling me >> compass not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to >> navigate in case the panel goes out. I have used the copmass to get my >> self out of a pickle in times when rented a plane with iffy DGs. >>> >>> Juan >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:13 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 cover Aaron, C'mon, what pattern did you pick? Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, Tail done, wings done, working on c-section Do not archive I made one from a vinyl table cloth. Water proof, fuzzy back, fits good, cheap! Wallmart. do not archive. Aaron 5 hours working on cooling issues > message posted by: "Tommy Walker" > I'm looking for a cover for the cabin on my 701. I searched the archive > for "cover" and got ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:01 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned Dred, here's my set up ,2 facet pumps set up after the gasolater with a on and off fuel slector on each wing tank going to the gasolater 2 swiches on the dash 1for each pump ,I flip them both on for take and landings,and use only 1 for cruise I alt from time to time on the 1 for cruise. any in put? Joe N101HD 601XL ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned > > I agree with Gig that you want a "Right - Left - Off" valve arrangement > ,not a "Right - Left - Both" type of arrangement. If both tanks are > connected to the fuel system at the same time and one is empty or very > low, that low tank constitutes a problem that the full one does not > compensate for. > > Now as for having both pumps run whenever the (single) switch is "on", I > don't think it would be a problem in the operation of fuel delivery but it > may not be good for the pump that is pushing against a closed valve. You > could check that out with the manufacturer of the pump. If the pump is not > run dry, it may not harm it to run against the closed valve. > > Dred > > ---- Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote: >> >> Gentlemen: >> >> Charles makes a number of very good points here...but I have a question >> or >> two: >> >> - I'm looking to put a facet pump right at the base of each tank so the >> whole run is pressurized fuel to reduce vapor lock. Charles says to be >> sure the >> correct pump is turned on....is there any danger to the facet pumps by >> running one 'deadheaded' right into the fuel selector...that way both >> pumps can be >> wired to ONE switch to eliminate pilot error. >> >> - there was a prolific lister here some time ago that was exceptionally >> knowledgeable on vapor lock issues. He suggested eliminating the fuel >> selector >> completely and running a check valve at the outlet of each pump. That >> way >> BOTH pumps could supply fuel during takeoff and landing and ONE pump can >> run >> during cruise. When one pump is running, the check valve(s) will >> eliminate >> crossfeeding from one tank to another. In addition, by using a 2-gang >> rotary >> switch wired Left-Right-Left+Right there is no way the plane can suffer >> from NO >> pumps on due to pilot error. My only problem with this setup is that >> the >> one fuel pump switch presents a single point of failure....... >> >> Any thoughts?? >> >> Thanks >> >> Tracy Smith >> N458XL (reserved) >> Do Not Archive >> >> >> >> In a message dated 6/19/2007 12:42:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> charles.long@gm.com writes: >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com >> >> >> A friend of mine who also flies a Zodie Rocket had an issue on >> takeoff the other day. His engine began to stumble right after liftoff >> on a >> 90 degree day. He immediately cut power and landed. Fortunately he had >> plenty of runway. After assessing the situation, he found that he had >> inadvertently turned on the electric fuel pump at the base of the wrong >> tank. Two lessons to be learned here: ALWAYS USE THE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP >> FOR >> BACKUP ON TAKEOFF AND LANDING. SECONDLY, IF USING SEPARATE ELECTRIC >> PUMPS >> FOR EACH TANK, CONFIRM YOU ARE USING THE RIGHT ONE. This incident was >> with >> the Rotax 912s using auto fuel. It has been reported that auto fuel has >> a >> higher vapor lock potential so the electric fuel pumps tend to be even >> more >> critical for avoiding vapor lock issues. If the pump is at the base of >> the >> tank, the problem is virtually eliminated since pressurized fuel won't >> vapor lock. >> >> Before we bad mouth the 912s, I would argue that vapor lock is not an >> engine-specific problem. I also had a vapor lock problem with my Jab >> involving a restrictive fuel filter. The electric pump application >> immediately corrected the vapor lock condition as reported below: >> >> >> From: Charles F. Long on 06/20/2005 11:40 AM >> >> To: Zenith-List Digest List >> cc: micheintz@gmail.com >> Subject: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned >> >> I experienced an engine stoppage during one of my first flights. It >> occurred at altitude using cruise power with the Aux pump off. The >> engine >> immediately restarted after turning the Aux pump on (windmilling >> propellor, >> so engine starter was not required). I repeated the stoppage a second >> time >> by shutting the pump off and confirmed that the Aux pump was required to >> keep the engine running. My airplane configuration is as follows: >> >> 601HDS built from Kit >> Jabiru 3300A purchased with FWD from ZAC >> Finger screens in the tank >> Dual Aux Facet pumps in wing root mounted close to the tank >> Selector valve on the floor just forward of the wing spar >> Single line feeding the Gascolator just aft of the firewall >> Jabiru Engine fuel pump in series with Aux pumps >> Bosch Metal Can auto fuel filter downstream of the Jab pump >> Fuel pressure sensor downstream of the Bosch filter >> Outside air temp - 80 F >> >> Jabiru recommends installing the fuel filter upstream rather than >> downstream of their fuel pump. I did not follow this practice as I was >> concerned about installing a filter on the suction side of the pump. >> >> The fuel system was designed to run at low pressures (<2 psi). The >> Bosch filter may have caused a high enough pressure drop to induce Vapor >> Lock. Fuel flow was tested before the first flight using the Aux pumps >> and >> flow was confirmed to be over 20 gph. The test was repeated after this >> incident and continued to be over 20 gph. The flow was never tested >> using >> the Jabiru pump alone. The Jabiru pump was disassembled and showed no >> indications of a problem or contamination. >> >> The Bosch filter was discarded and per the recommendations of those >> on the Matronics list, a Flow Ezy stainless mesh filter (A S & S, p/n >> 05-28905) was installed upstream of the Jab pump. The Flow Ezy filter, >> though rather expensive (close to $100), provides high flow/low pressure >> drop. This appears to have cured the problem as I have had no additional >> issues after 6 hours additional flight time. This includes several full >> power climbs with Aux pumps off. >> >> Looking back on this, I should have used the high flow, stainless >> filter from the get-go. Fortunately, the plane was designed with fuel >> pump >> redundancy and the Aux pumps were used during Takeoff and Landing. >> >> I hesitate to air my dirty laundry here, but hopefully it will help >> some other builders to avoid the same mistake. CFL >> >> >> Clear Skies! >> Chuck Long, CFI >> Zodie Rocket >> N601LE, 110 hr TT >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************** See what's free at >> http://www.aol.com. > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:56 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned You also want to be able to turn off the fuel flow in case of emergency. You don't want to be trying to get out of the cabin after a crash landing while the pumps are filling the cabin with fuel through ruptured fuel lines. > > I agree with Gig that you want a "Right - Left - Off" valve > arrangement ,not a "Right - Left - Both" type of arrangement. If > both tanks are connected to the fuel system at the same time and > one is empty or very low, that low tank constitutes a problem that > the full one does not compensate for. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:29 PM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 cover My wife picked it out. It's just tan subdued. I told her "no strawberries". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Boothe" Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 6:51 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 cover > > Aaron, > > C'mon, what pattern did you pick? > > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, > Tail done, wings done, working on c-section > Do not archive > > > > I made one from a vinyl table cloth. Water proof, fuzzy back, fits good, > cheap! Wallmart. do not archive. > > Aaron 5 hours working on cooling issues > > >> message posted by: "Tommy Walker" >> I'm looking for a cover for the cabin on my 701. I searched the archive >> for "cover" and got > > > -- > 3:02 PM > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:31 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned Joe, do you have a header tank ? I didn't see the need for fuel pumps from the wing tanks without a header tank on a standard XL. Do you have some special issues ? I have only one elec fuel pump between gasalator to mech fuel pump on my XL and it seems to do fine. I have an in line filter between pumps. This is with a 3300 Jab. Maybe I missed something, Best regards, Bill of Georgia ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 cover From: "Tommy Walker" I hadn't thought of making one. Maybe I can get my wife to oil up her sewing machine and make me one. I will probably have to operate the foot feed though, since it's an old singer with a tredle :D agustafson(at)chartermi.n wrote: > My wife picked it out. It's just tan subdued. I told her "no strawberries". > > > --- -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119540#119540 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:50 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned When a facet fuel pump is directly feeding the float bowls it is pushing against closed float valves for a large part of the time. No prob. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:39 PM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 cover That's the kind I made mine on. I brought it home from Germany 32 years ago when my hitch was done. I've never used an electric one but this one has sown many a camping gear and harness. I also made all of the upholstery for my 601 and Kolb before that. do not archive > I hadn't thought of making one. Maybe I can get my wife to oil up her > sewing machine and make me one. I will probably have to operate the foot > feed though, since it's an old singer with a tredle > agustafson(at)chartermi.n wrote: >> My wife picked it out. It's just tan subdued. I told her "no >> strawberries". ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:47 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned Bryan, I have 2 dash switches,and a wing fuel valve for each wing, so I can shut everything off,if thing's go south. Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Martin To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned You also want to be able to turn off the fuel flow in case of emergency. You don't want to be trying to get out of the cabin after a crash landing while the pumps are filling the cabin with fuel through ruptured fuel lines. I agree with Gig that you want a "Right - Left - Off" valve arrangement ,not a "Right - Left - Both" type of arrangement. If both tanks are connected to the fuel system at the same time and one is empty or very low, that low tank constitutes a problem that the full one does not compensate for. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:13 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned Bill,I don't have a mech. pump ,so I have 2 for my Ram 130 Subaru.I had thought about add another pump on a seperate small batt, switch independnt from the other 2 I n case of elect failure . Joe N101HD ----- Original Message From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:38 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned Joe, do you have a header tank ? I didn't see the need for fuel pumps from the wing tanks without a header tank on a standard XL. Do you have some special issues ? I have only one elec fuel pump between gasalator to mech fuel pump on my XL and it seems to do fine. I have an in line filter between pumps. This is with a 3300 Jab. Maybe I missed something, Best regards, Bill of Georgia ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:56 PM PST US From: Tim Shankland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Swinging the compass I think there may be a problem with this method, a GPS will give you true North not local magnetic north, which is what a compass does. In the eastern and midwest USA there isn't much difference but in the west is about 18 degrees declination. Tim Shankland Klaus Truemper wrote: > > Hi John, > > There is an alternate method for getting correct directions when > swinging the compass. > You turn on the GPS unit and let the plane roll forward a small > distance, say 15 ft. > If it is a good GPS unit, it will tell you the direction with utter > precision. > BTW, this is a quick way to recheck the compass periodically. > > Happy flying, > > Klaus ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Corvair folk: new posting on William Wynne's web site From: "Falcon" > Zenair CH 610 HD N282RS, Randy Stout, San Antonio, Texas, First Flight August 18, 2004 Make that eleven. On Sunday, I watched Randy take his 601 HD up for its first flight behind a new Jabiru 3300. In conversations with Randy, it was evident the Corvair's weak crank, weight, and long down time didn't sit well with him. Having seen two Jabiru-powered 601s, if I had to give up my EA-81, I'd seriously consider the 3300. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119564#119564 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:24 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Swinging the compass My Garmin GPSMAP 296 can be set to display magnetic or true. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:15 PM PST US From: Jimbo Subject: Re: Zenith-List: green paint It also comes in yellow. I have never seen gray. Due to the fact that mine will most likely live outside in a coastal environment, I'm using zinc cromate on all interior surfaces that will be closed up and therefore not easily inspected for corrosion. --- Edward Moody II wrote: > We've been through this in the archives pretty > thoroughly but the short version is: > > You really only need to prime the places where two > parts touch because moisture will wick in and remain > there often. Remember the places where skins > overlap. > > I chose to prime the entire inside of mine so that > anything that won't be painted later for esthetics > will be at least be primed for protection. > > The green stuff (also available in gray) is likely > either Zinc Chromate (very toxic.... be careful) or > Zinc Oxide (somewhat more friendly) self etching > primer. I used Tempo Zinc Oxide from rattle cans and > bought it at Aircraft Spruce. > > The water based stuff, Cortec, seems to be okay too. > > If you don't do at least some of the above, you > should use the spray-the-inside-of-the-plane stuff > once a year or so. > > Dred > Do Not Archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ben Ramler > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 2:11 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: green paint > > > Hi everyone, > > When I was at Rogers place i noticed he painted > some green ant-corrosion paint on certain places. My > question this does anyone know what the name of it > is and don't you have to paint the whole entire > airplane with this stuff or no? > > thanks, > > Ben > Zenith wanna-be ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.