---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/22/07: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:17 AM - Re: 601 XL load testing (alex_01) 2. 02:58 AM - Re: Re: Aircraft financing (David Downey) 3. 03:08 AM - Re: xxx Re: 601 XL load testing (David Downey) 4. 03:12 AM - Re: Re: 601 XL load testing (David Downey) 5. 03:54 AM - Re: 601 XL load testing (alex_01) 6. 04:39 AM - Re: Re: Aircraft financing (Juan Vega) 7. 07:29 AM - Grove Two-Piece Wheels (DaveG601XL) 8. 07:31 AM - Wings options (Hans van Riet) 9. 09:02 AM - Grove wheel bolt (Zed Smith) 10. 09:04 AM - First Flight (cleonard52@comcast.net) 11. 09:07 AM - Re: 601 XL load testing (lgingell) 12. 09:31 AM - Re: First Flight (Beckman, Rick) 13. 09:33 AM - Re: Grove wheel bolt (DaveG601XL) 14. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: 601 XL load testing (Steve Shuck) 15. 09:59 AM - Re: Wings options (Gig Giacona) 16. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Wings options (long range tanks) (Carlos Sa) 17. 10:30 AM - Re: First Flight (Terry Turnquist) 18. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: Wings options (Frank Stutzman) 19. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Wings options (Robin Bellach) 20. 10:45 AM - Re: Wings options (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 21. 11:17 AM - Re: Wings options (long range tanks) (Gig Giacona) 22. 11:28 AM - Re: Wings options (Gerald Scampoli) 23. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: Wings options (Terry Phillips) 24. 11:36 AM - Re: Wings options (Gig Giacona) 25. 01:02 PM - Re: Wings options (george may) 26. 01:13 PM - Re: First Flight (LarryMcFarland) 27. 01:32 PM - Re: Wings options (PatrickW) 28. 03:14 PM - Re: Wings options (chris Sinfield) 29. 04:18 PM - Re: First Flight (Jeff) 30. 06:12 PM - Re: know-it-alls (Dave Thompson) 31. 06:24 PM - Re: Prop/Exhaust comments requested. (Dave Thompson) 32. 07:12 PM - CH 701 in South or North Carolina (helicop) 33. 08:46 PM - Re: Wings options (hansriet) 34. 09:03 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 06/20/07 () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:13 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL load testing From: "alex_01" We use Scotch Weld 9323 B/A with great sucsess. we are also building Carbon fibre chassis for motorracing (and carbon/alloy) we done several structural tests including many crash tests and for sure the bond is extrimely good with this glue Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119972#119972 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:32 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aircraft financing ...I guess that the J-3 and its predecesors, Taylorcraft, Champs and their derivatives, Pitts, Eagles, and any historic airliners, fighters, and bombers (controls and other portions of the aircraft would not be financed... do not archive I am a company the finances aircraft do I give money to someone with a metal aircraft with history vs, light aircraft covered in cloth. Hummmmmmmmmmm. JUan -----Original Message----- >From: Gig Giacona >Sent: Jun 21, 2007 3:51 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aircraft financing > > >I'm not slaming Kolb or Ferguson aircraft but they LOOK like ultralights. The finace people look at the 601 and see something that at looks like a Tomahawk or a Skipper. In other words a real airplane. > > >ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.c wrote: >> Here's question for all Finance experts out there, >> >> >> How come most aircraft financing are more incline to offer financing like zenith vs something like Kolb, or ferguson aircraft? Do they base it off of reputatuion? >> >> >> >> thanks, >> >> Ben >> >> > > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119888#119888 > > Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:12 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: xxx Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL load testing you are certainly right about the "very, VERY small ,seemingly insignificant design details" John. A number of years ago we lost one of our aircraft, a brand new upgraded model, with tens of souls on board. The crash investigation (very thorough because it involved the civilian customer, the military customer, and Boeing teams) found that (simplified) a design improvement meant to stabilize and strengthen a ring gear flange to pinion body bolted joint had resulted in local flexure of that flange with subsequent crackign around the new bolt installation. Note that we had at the time, about half of the worlds ranking transmission and gear experts as long time employees - and the joint was not fatigue tested because no one foresaw that it could change the load paths in that way. That incident taught me a lot - A LOT. John Bolding wrote: David, Thanks for the heads up, (we did use 2216) we knew about the temp limitation as well as all the application snafus. All we were looking for was a method to ease fabrication. What we got was very unexpected as far as the help with the buckling problem, which at the time we didn't know existed. What I was trying to get across to the list was the fact that sometimes very, VERY small ,seemingly insignificant design details can have a BIG impact on the final scheme of things. Another thing worthy of note is several RV's came apart, further testing was done that ended up with mixed conclusions. Design was amended, (fewer caps but thicker, better resistance to buckling and a few more vertical stiffeners on the web) and problem went away. At the time we got our info from the newsletter, decades before Al invented the 'net. Dick kept us up to date on his testing, just like Chris is doing here. Thanks for the info. John ----- Original Message ----- From: David Downey To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 6:27 PM Subject: xxx Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL load testing Please forgive the listing of qualification: A&P, Materials Engineer (composites/adhesives) at Boeing, 25+ years. Please keep omnmind that 3M makes a very large assortment of "Scotch-Weld" adhesives. Unfortunately, one of the more popular ones (and very old) is EC2216. While the 2216 grey is a very tough and moderately strong adhesive, it suffers from almost no strength at even moderately elevated temperatures (above 140F!). Please choose an adhesive that provides decent performance (greater than 1000 psi lapshear and compression at 220F) to avoid bond strength degradation at the temperatures that structure can heat soak to on the ramp. While skin temperatures do cool very rapidly with minimal airflow, the internal structures can take substantial time to cool. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:12 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL load testing Please remember that the bond in composites is vastly different than a metal bond. All that matters there are clean appropriately active surfaces, good joint design, and the appropriate adhesive appropriately applied and cured. Also remember that 100% bonded structures are subject to ballistic failure as the joints have substantial shear lag and different local speed of sound in the materials. We use Scotch Weld 9323 B/A with great sucsess. we are also building Carbon fibre chassis for motorracing (and carbon/alloy) we done several structural tests including many crash tests and for sure the bond is extrimely good with this glue Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119972#119972 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:05 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL load testing From: "alex_01" we know the differance between carbon and metal we also manufactured approx 60 Porsche 956/962 Group C chassis and this glue had the best results for strenght and sheer load - but surface has to be reasonable clean (we use aceton) and bonding area must also be prepared with find scotch brite or fine sandpaper Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119977#119977 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:50 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aircraft financing in the present day the financing would be not cheap on those planes. possible but not cheap. more of an insurance issue than finance. -----Original Message----- >From: David Downey >Sent: Jun 22, 2007 5:57 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aircraft financing > >...I guess that the J-3 and its predecesors, Taylorcraft, Champs and their derivatives, Pitts, Eagles, and any historic airliners, fighters, and bombers (controls and other portions of the aircraft would not be financed... > >do not archive > > >I am a company the finances aircraft do I give money to someone with a metal aircraft with history vs, light aircraft covered in cloth. Hummmmmmmmmmm. > >JUan > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Gig Giacona >>Sent: Jun 21, 2007 3:51 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aircraft financing >> >> >>I'm not slaming Kolb or Ferguson aircraft but they LOOK like ultralights. The finace people look at the 601 and see something that at looks like a Tomahawk or a Skipper. In other words a real airplane. >> >> >> >>ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.c wrote: >>> Here's question for all Finance experts out there, >>> >>> >>> How come most aircraft financing are more incline to offer financing like zenith vs something like Kolb, or ferguson aircraft? Do they base it off of reputatuion? >>> >>> >>> >>> thanks, >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> >> >> >>-------- >>W.R. "Gig" Giacona >>601XL Under Construction >>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119888#119888 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? > > > >--------------------------------- >Luggage? GPS? Comic books? >Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Grove Two-Piece Wheels From: "DaveG601XL" What type of tool do you guys use to get on the bolt head on the inside of the Grove 5013 wheel? The bolt head is so close to the brake disc that no socket will fit over it. I can jamb the open head end of a combo wrench over it, but it is not a good solution. Is there a special tool that I am unaware of? I can see how maybe a fitting wrench with the handle cut off and re-welded could work, but it should not be this hard. In my opinion, it is a pretty crappy design on Grove's part. Thanks, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, working on fueslage. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120009#120009 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:35 AM PST US From: Hans van Riet Subject: Zenith-List: Wings options I'm about ready to order the wings for my Zodiac XL kit and I would like some insights on the options. Having flown with the Canadian flex-aileron equipped demonstrator, I'm pretty much set on the piano-hinge option. But what about the wing lockers? Will I need the extra space, especially when I'm thinking of installing a BRS parachute in the luggage area? Long range tanks or not? Even in our Cessna Cardinal I never fly longer than 2.5 hours. Do I need the extra range or safe some weight with full tanks? I was thinking of installing wig-wag lights. Shall I order an extra lens, riblet and channel and install this mirrored in the opposite wing? Your thought are greatly appreciated. Hans van Riet ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:07 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Grove wheel bolt do not archive Would a "crow foot" wrench work? Sears, Snap-Off, etc. Regads, Zed ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:39 AM PST US From: cleonard52@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight Last week, after almost four years, my Zenith 601xl flew for the first time{with Bill Clapp at the controls}.You could say I built this plane all by myself, with a few minor exceptions. First, I never could have done this with out the help from Zenith Aircraft. Over four years I easily called the factory an average of four times a week. There were three or four times, that I called that many times in a day. Everyone at the factory went out of there way to help me, and to make sure I understood exactly how things were to be done. Second, I installed a Corvair engine in the plane, but only with hours of help from William Wynne[flycorvair.com] and Gus Warren [flywithgus.com]. They also gave me the leadership to do the firewall foreword part of the installation. I guess, when you think about it, I really built this plane with a whole lot of help. Charles Leonard N920EL
Last week, after almost four years, my Zenith 601xl flew for the first time{with Bill Clapp at the controls}.You could say I built this plane all by myself, with a few minor exceptions.
 
First, I never could have done this with out the help from Zenith Aircraft. Over four years I easily called the factory an average of four times a week. There were three or four times, that I called that many times in a day. Everyone at the factory went out of there way to help me, and to make sure I understood exactly how things were to be done.
 
Second, I installed a Corvair engine in the plane, but only with hours of help from William Wynne[flycorvair.com] and Gus Warren [flywithgus.com]. They also gave me the leadership to do the firewall foreword part of the installation.
 
I guess, when you think about it, I really built this plane with a whole lot of help.
 
Charles Leonard
N920EL
 
 
 
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL load testing From: "lgingell" I looked closely at the pictures, and the bags say 'Tri Mix', so I googled it, and it appears to be ED medication that gives you an erection! Are they trying to use it to make the wings stiff? !!! -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120035#120035 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:00 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight From: "Beckman, Rick" Congrats!!!! Last week, after almost four years, my Zenith 601xl flew for the first time{with Bill Clapp at the controls}.You could say I built this plane all by myself, with a few minor exceptions. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:10 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Grove wheel bolt From: "DaveG601XL" My 3/8" drive crows foot would not fit, but it is a bit wide. A 1/4" drive might work but I don't any in my toolbox. Sounds like a shopping trip. Thanks, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, working on fueslage. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120038#120038 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:55 AM PST US From: "Steve Shuck" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL load testing Yes, I agree, but It only stiff for 36 Hours. ----- Original Message ----- From: "lgingell" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:07 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL load testing > > I looked closely at the pictures, and the bags say 'Tri Mix', so I googled > it, and it appears to be ED medication that gives you an erection! > > Are they trying to use it to make the wings stiff? !!! > > -------- > Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 > http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120035#120035 > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wings options From: "Gig Giacona" Weight in the wing lockers have a LOT less moment than anything put in the back luggage area and that is a good thing. Especially if you are going to hard mount 25 lbs. in the back. If you never fly more than 2.5 hours why would even consider the long range tanks? The 12 gallon tanks give you 4+ hours at 5 gph. hansriet wrote: > I'm about ready to order the wings for my Zodiac XL kit and I would like some insights on the options. > > Having flown with the Canadian flex-aileron equipped demonstrator, I'm pretty much set on the piano-hinge option. > > But what about the wing lockers? Will I need the extra space, especially when I'm thinking of installing a BRS parachute in the luggage area? > > Long range tanks or not? Even in our Cessna Cardinal I never fly longer than 2.5 hours. Do I need the extra range or safe some weight with full tanks? > > I was thinking of installing wig-wag lights. Shall I order an extra lens, riblet and channel and install this mirrored in the opposite wing? > > Your thought are greatly appreciated. > > Hans van Riet -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120047#120047 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:36 AM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Wings options (long range tanks) The only thing I can think is, perhaps to go to places where there is no fuel available? Carlos CH601-HD, plans On 22/06/07, Gig Giacona wrote: > > wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> > > ... > > If you never fly more than 2.5 hours why would even consider the long > range tanks? The 12 gallon tanks give you 4+ hours at 5 gph. > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:09 AM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight Nice going Charles, everyone who gets their plane in the air is an inspiration to the rest of us! Do not archive. Terry Turnquist 601XL-Plans St. Peters, MO cleonard52@comcast.net wrote: Last week, after almost four years, my Zenith 601xl flew for the first time{with Bill Clapp at the controls}.You could say I built this plane all by myself, with a few minor exceptions. First, I never could have done this with out the help from Zenith Aircraft. Over four years I easily called the factory an average of four times a week. There were three or four times, that I called that many times in a day. Everyone at the factory went out of there way to help me, and to make sure I understood exactly how things were to be done. Second, I installed a Corvair engine in the plane, but only with hours of help from William Wynne[flycorvair.com] and Gus Warren [flywithgus.com]. They also gave me the leadership to do the firewall foreword part of the installation. I guess, when you think about it, I really built this plane with a whole lot of help. Charles Leonard N920EL --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:03 AM PST US From: Frank Stutzman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Wings options On Fri, 22 Jun 2007, Gig Giacona wrote: > If you never fly more than 2.5 hours why would even consider the long > range tanks? The 12 gallon tanks give you 4+ hours at 5 gph. Probably for the same reason you see a lot of tip tanks on high performance singles. It really reduces operational costs when you have the ability to load up on cheap fuel when the opportunity arises. Frank Stutzman ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:01 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Wings options I've been places where the price of fuel has made me wish I could have brought more along. Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gig Giacona" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:58 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wings options > > If you never fly more than 2.5 hours why would even consider the long > range tanks? The 12 gallon tanks give you 4+ hours at 5 gph. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:02 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wings options Hello Hans: IMHO, wing lockers are a must for all the reasons mentioned previously. RE: Long-range tanks - just remember, you don't HAVE to fill them up all the way all the time - just when you want extra fuel on board. It's not an option you can easily add later, do if it's in the budget, do it NOW, You have the same thoughts as I RE: wig-wag lights. Here's a thought: I assume you successfully built your rudder and stab by now and you're getting pretty good at all this, right ??? By the time you finish the first wing your skill set will be even further along...so why not wait until you're ready to order up those extra parts for the extra light....you might feel confident enough to SCRATCH-BUILD your first parts. Just my $0.02 Tracy Smith N458XL (reserved) 601XL working on wings - forever do not archive In a message dated 6/22/2007 9:32:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, hansinla@mac.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hans van Riet I'm about ready to order the wings for my Zodiac XL kit and I would like some insights on the options. Having flown with the Canadian flex-aileron equipped demonstrator, I'm pretty much set on the piano-hinge option. But what about the wing lockers? Will I need the extra space, especially when I'm thinking of installing a BRS parachute in the luggage area? Long range tanks or not? Even in our Cessna Cardinal I never fly longer than 2.5 hours. Do I need the extra range or safe some weight with full tanks? I was thinking of installing wig-wag lights. Shall I order an extra lens, riblet and channel and install this mirrored in the opposite wing? Your thought are greatly appreciated. Hans van Riet ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:31 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wings options (long range tanks) From: "Gig Giacona" Well if the longest he EVER flys is 2.5 hours you'd have to have both his max flight and no available fuel happen on the same flight. He can always throw some gas cans in the wing lockers. carlossa52(at)gmail.com wrote: > The only thing I can think is, perhaps to go to places where there is no fuel available? > > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120071#120071 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:45 AM PST US From: "Gerald Scampoli" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wings options Hans, My first instructor taught me that there is nothing less valuable to a pilot than runway behind you, altitude above you or fuel left on the ground. If you are certain that you are NEVER going to fly more than 2 1/2 hour legs, standard tanks are the way to go. But, on an extended cross-country, eliminating a fuel stop or two can save a lot of time and, believe it or not, fuel. You can always fill the tanks only half full for the short jaunts and eliminate the weight penalty, but it's really convenient to have the ability to extend your cross-country legs to 3 1/2 to 4 hours. In my case though, my kidney will usually force a stop long before the fuel runs low. Blue skies, Gerry Scampoli Hingham, MA 601XL - Corvair >From: Hans van Riet >Long range tanks or not? Even in our Cessna Cardinal I never fly longer >than 2.5 hours. Do I need the extra range or safe some weight with full >tanks? _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! http://mobile.msn.com ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:51 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Wings options Hans I chose to go with the wing lockers even without a BRS parachute, because the Zenith folks tell me that the main baggage area is limited to 40 lbs. That is about what I used to carry in my pack when backpacking--not much for two people. I chose to go with the standard 12 gal tanks, mostly because I didn't want the extra weight, and, as Gig points out, 4 hrs is about as long as I'm likely to fly. Finally, regarding the wig-wag lights, I just bought a lens from Zenith which I plan to cut in half, one piece for each wing. Then I plan to scratch build a mounting plate for HID landing and taxi lights, probably 35W units from Creativair. I'm assuming that the small HID lights will do fine with half a lens. I haven't worked out the final design. I hope it will all fit together. Of course, I'm still working on my rudder, so my wig-wag plans are long way from fruition. Terry At 09:58 AM 6/22/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Weight in the wing lockers have a LOT less moment than anything put in the >back luggage area and that is a good thing. Especially if you are going to >hard mount 25 lbs. in the back. > >If you never fly more than 2.5 hours why would even consider the long >range tanks? The 12 gallon tanks give you 4+ hours at 5 gph. > > >hansriet wrote: > > I'm about ready to order the wings for my Zodiac XL kit and I would > like some insights on the options. > > > > Having flown with the Canadian flex-aileron equipped demonstrator, I'm > pretty much set on the piano-hinge option. > > > > But what about the wing lockers? Will I need the extra space, > especially when I'm thinking of installing a BRS parachute in the luggage area? > > > > Long range tanks or not? Even in our Cessna Cardinal I never fly longer > than 2.5 hours. Do I need the extra range or safe some weight with full tanks? > > > > I was thinking of installing wig-wag lights. Shall I order an extra > lens, riblet and channel and install this mirrored in the opposite wing? > > > > Your thought are greatly appreciated. > > > > Hans van Riet Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT Just starting a 601 kit ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:35 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wings options From: "Gig Giacona" The long range tanks are 15 gallon, right? So we are talking 6 extra gallons. If your normal fuel price is say $3.50 and where you are going is double that you are only saving $22.00. Plus fully fueled it is an additional ~36lbs and I like to be fully fueled. stutzman(at)stutzman.com wrote: > > Probably for the same reason you see a lot of tip tanks on high > performance singles. > > It really reduces operational costs when you have the ability to > load up on cheap fuel when the opportunity arises. > > Frank Stutzman -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120076#120076 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:59 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wings options "wing options" Hans-- I agree the hinge aileron is the way to go ,I did. The "long range " tanks are also a good option to have. They were not available when I got my kit. The only option then was two 12 gallon tanks in each wing which complicated the fuel valve too much for me. The extra 6 gallons capacity is good to have. I installed a wigwag, but instead of using a light in each wing, I wigwaged the taxi and landing lights that are adjacent to each other. Good luck George May 601XL 912s---92 hours _________________________________________________________________ Picture this share your photos and you could win big! http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:33 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight Congratulations on your completion , Charles, Very pleased to hear you're beginning the second great adventure. Do fly safe, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive cleonard52@comcast.net wrote: > Last week, after almost four years, my Zenith 601xl flew for the first > time{with Bill Clapp at the controls}.You could say I built this plane > all by myself, with a few minor exceptions. > > First, I never could have done this with out the help from Zenith > Aircraft. Over four years I easily called the factory an average of > four times a week. There were three or four times, that I called that > many times in a day. Everyone at the factory went out of there way to > help me, and to make sure I understood exactly how things were to be done. > > Second, I installed a Corvair engine in the plane, but only with hours > of help from William Wynne[flycorvair.com] and Gus Warren > [flywithgus.com]. They also gave me the leadership to do the firewall > foreword part of the installation. > > I guess, when you think about it, I really built this plane with a > whole lot of help. > > Charles Leonard > N920EL > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:32 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wings options From: "PatrickW" I went with the hingless ailerons. I bought the wing locker option, but am having second thoughts about installing it. Haven't closed my top skins yet, so I can still change my mind... Went with the 15 gallon tanks - thinking cross country weekends to airports with no fuel. Mostly peace of mind. Am considering a BRS. Might mount my battery ahead of the firewall for CG, but that's a ways in the future for me. Probably as many different configuration ideas as there are builders :) Patrick XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120099#120099 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:47 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wings options From: "chris Sinfield" Hi Chris from Down Under with an XL kit. I went with the wing lockers, yes they are thinner than the thick wing HD,s, but for the small cost they make a great option available to the pilot when it comes to W&B. I went with Long range tanks only because down here sometimes you have to buy AVGAS in 44 Gal drums at a time and what you dont take in your plane is left for the locals ( see them que up for free fuel for their cars) With the wing lockers I have seen mods to make it a spare fuel can area. Its up to you and your spacific needs, it is more money and you dont get a credit for not having the normal tanks. 2.5 hours in a Cessna cardinal ver's XL is very different so take a long look at range req Vs speed/time. I put strobes on only because I will be flying at night ,what are you going to be using your Aircraft for? it is always an option to wire it up and decide later. I put my strobe power suppys out at the wing tip. I also stayed with the hingless design for 2 reasons, and I am a flight engineer on big aircraft. I dont want to do aerobatics I am happy with the feel. It is also a very good talking point amongst the rest of the aero engineers at work they are amazed and roll their eyes till they look at the data from Chris H. then all agree its save simple and easy. Horses for courses. Chris. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120113#120113 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:56 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight Do not archive this .. Congratulations Charles .. And Zenith .. And William Wynne .. There could not be a better story of support from our vendors. I am so glad that Chris was not satisfied building just a small part on a large airplane, but rather needed to design and build the complete machine. Jeff Davidson _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cleonard52@comcast.net Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:04 PM Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight Last week, after almost four years, my Zenith 601xl flew for the first time{with Bill Clapp at the controls}.You could say I built this plane all by myself, with a few minor exceptions. First, I never could have done this with out the help from Zenith Aircraft. Over four years I easily called the factory an average of four times a week. There were three or four times, that I called that many times in a day. Everyone at the factory went out of there way to help me, and to make sure I understood exactly how things were to be done. Second, I installed a Corvair engine in the plane, but only with hours of help from William Wynne[flycorvair.com] and Gus Warren [flywithgus.com]. They also gave me the leadership to do the firewall foreword part of the installation. I guess, when you think about it, I really built this plane with a whole lot of help. Charles Leonard N920EL ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:28 PM PST US From: "Dave Thompson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: know-it-alls Here! Here! I for one like to know who and where information is coming from. This allows me to validate or invalidate the information I'm reading. I appreciate the "I know this because" or "Just my opinion" statements. As for "sounding like a know-it all", sometimes the facts stated are from someone that DOES know (of course sometimes not). When one of my students makes a statement, I usually ask "where did you get that information?" Just my opinion. Do not archive Dave Thompson Westminster, CA ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:04 PM PST US From: "Dave Thompson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Prop/Exhaust comments requested. I am by no means any kind of expert on this subject. However, when I read about the "Pulse vibration" I thought of the harmonic balancer that I added to my '61 Corvair back in high school. '65 and up had them, '64 and below just had a pulley. There was a noticeable difference in the vibration after I add the harmonic balancer. I don't know if there is an appropriate place to install one or if that would even help. I just wanted to pass along my thoughts. Do not archive Dave Thompson Westminster, CA ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:56 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: CH 701 in South or North Carolina From: "helicop" If anyone has a CH 701 in the Carolinas, and would not mind me taking a look at it, please email me. I have had an interest in the Kitfox, but I would like to look at a 701 and possibly sit in it, if that could be arranged. I live in Charleston, SC, but I spend alot of time in the Greenville SC area along with North Carolina. Please let me know. I appreciate it. You can email me at garymail at bellsouth.net. Thanks again, Gary Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120157#120157 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:13 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wings options From: "hansriet" Thank your all for your insights. This is a fantastic group. Hans Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120165#120165 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:02 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 06/20/07 I too have a problem with using someone's original design as a template for a profit-making venture. That sort of thing, to quote the Brits, "just isn't done, old boy." Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave P To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 4:04 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 06/20/07 Forgive me, But I fail to understand why any member of the corvair community would sell their first generation hubs to a counterfeiter to save a few bucks. Undermining WW sales at the expense of severing ties with him seems like false economy to me. Instead of contacting this counterfeiter off list, have the guts to contact him here, in the open, if you intend to do business with him so that we may all recognize you for what you are. If you have trouble with doing that, perhaps you should reconsider who you choose to buy critical components from. I'll choose to buy mine from someone who has done their own research and development. Dave Petersen 601XL Corvair building wings in Oregon Time: 03:40:44 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: WW's Black prop hub I am looking for 2 of the old style black prop hubs with puck. If you were thinking of switching to the gold one contact me off list. I have someone that will make them in batches of 10 but thought I could help someone out by buying theirs for what you paid for it. I understand that William is only giving partial credit for the swap. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.