---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/24/07: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:41 AM - Re: Re: airfoil coordinates? (David Downey) 2. 07:06 AM - Re: 701 Brake Lines (LarryMcFarland) 3. 08:27 AM - Wheel pants speed (Frank Derfler) 4. 09:09 AM - Re: Wheel pants speed (C Smith) 5. 01:18 PM - 701 unusable fuel (Chuck Deiterich) 6. 01:50 PM - Re:701 Brake Lines (ruruny@aol.com) 7. 02:59 PM - Re: 701 unusable fuel (jetboy) 8. 03:24 PM - Nylon Conduit Routing in Wing (dgardea(at)gmail.com) 9. 03:46 PM - Re: Nylon Conduit Routing in Wing (burbby) 10. 04:03 PM - Re: Nylon Conduit Routing in Wing (Edward Moody II) 11. 04:25 PM - Re: Wheel pants speed (Bryan Martin) 12. 06:55 PM - Re: airfoil coordinates? (Ron Lendon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:14 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: airfoil coordinates? yes, I am XL#6406. I downloaded the plots for the form blocks and checked them against the prints after adding in the spear components and material wall thicknesses to the form block outlines.. As you know, the flaps are thicker than the basic airfoil - and I want to lay out the basic airfoil (at the root only). That would be a combination of the nose rib, rear ribs and aileron/flap. Do you have the prints? -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120284#120284 Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:44 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Brake Lines Dan, Look carefully at "bulkhead fittings" which are either straight, 45-degree or right angle. I'm sure one of these will help you grab the sheet and get to the other side without difficulty. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com txpilot wrote: > > I'm in the process of putting the brake lines in my 701. I have drilled a hole in the cabin floor as noted on the bottom diagram page 7-F-9 and installed a grommet. The problem is the bend required to make the brake line go under the seat, through this hole, and around to the back side of the main landing gear spring is quite a sharp bend. It seems like this sharp bend will eventually stress out the brake line. (I have the 'old' style gear spring that attaches onto forks). > > I'm thinking about installing two 90 degree elbows - one above and one below the cabin floor, to make a 'Z' bend. Has anyone else tried this or has a better suggestion how to handle this? If the 'Z' bend works, how can I secure the elbows to the cabin floor? > > Thanks, > > Dan Ginty > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:38 AM PST US From: "Frank Derfler" Subject: Zenith-List: Wheel pants speed The topic of an increase in speed from wheel pants has been analyzed down to the microscopic level on discussion groups such as the Grumman Gang. With a Grumman, which does not have a steerable nose wheel, the primary benefit of fairings seems to be to keep the nose wheel straight. We 601 drivers don't face that challenge. Here are some some conclusions I've drawn over the years of reading about and flying with and without wheel pants: * I note from photo archives of the Reno Air Racesthat if professional air racers didn't have retractable gear they had pants. I bet they tested and proved their worth. * Not all wheel pants are created equal. For example, DMA claims their pants (for Grummans) are significantly better than any other design. That debate still rages, but clearly what can be said of one set of pants might not fit into another set of pants. * They make the airplane look spiffy! I believe that eye-candy is their * primary* benefit. In my mind, any discussion of pants on a 601 is primarily about cool looks and the extra knots (or not) is the excuse. * If you have a flat tire on landing, you can litter the runway with expensive fiberglass. And, I had a flat tire on my 3rd landing in my 601. Bad tube or bad installation? One of the other. But, the fact is that everything would have been a lot worse / expensive if I had pants on the 601 * Preflight is much harder. Checking the air / filling with air is much more difficult. * IF you are not the "mechanic", " certificate holder" etc (depending on the class) and can't take off your own pants, then the annual is more expen$ive by an hour or more. * They add some weight. In a 601 it's almost *always* about weight more than speed. So, in my case I chose to go pantless. Yes, my 601 would look cooler with pants, but the benefits overcome the gains. Frank Derfler --See my Blog at http://MostlyFlying.Blogspot.com --My great gifts for guys at http://www.greatguybooks.com --My information for pilots at http://www.flyinflorida.com --My tips for boaters at http://www.keysboater.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:08 AM PST US From: "C Smith" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wheel pants speed _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Derfler Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 11:26 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Wheel pants speed * IF you are not the "mechanic", " certificate holder" etc (depending on the class) and can't take off your own pants, I imagine that quite a few other things get expensive as well if you can't take off your own pants! So, in my case I chose to go pantless. Yes, my 601 would look cooler with pants, but the benefits overcome the gains. Frank Derfler But frank, isn't it a bit chilly in the winter? and in front of the children?!?! sorry, couldn't resist.... CS do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:18:32 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 unusable fuel My 701 ten gallon wing tanks (no header tank) actually hold 10.8 gallons each. When the nose is low or in a slip the tank fuel outlet can be uncovered if the fuel is too low. In general, what is the unusable quantity of fuel for the wing tanks in a CH 701, particularly for landing? Thanks, Chuck D. N701TX ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:50:29 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re:701 Brake Lines From: ruruny@aol.com Dan, I'm wondering why Zenith changed this without providing 90 deg elbows. If yo u do this you could just bend a small piece of .025 aluminum drill 2 holes for rivets to mount t o floor and a larger hole with the proper grommet to support the 90 deg elbow should work good. I did a similar thing with fuel lines and electrical wires to support them. I did my brake line th e old way(out the side)=C2-but it leaves the line open to be caught by a f oot getting into the airplane, probably why they changed it. =C2-http://www.701builder.com/electrical10.htm=C2-this page shows how my line takes a more gradual turn and does not intefere with the rudder cable or anything else. http://www.701builder.com/fuelsystem04.htm=C2-this page shows the bracket to support the rubber fuel hose under the pilots seat. Scroll down a few pic s. http://www.701builder.com/07WingLines.htm=C2-this page shows the same thin g supporting pitot, fue, and electrical lines. Theres no reason why a 90 deg elbow could be mounted here and the line going straight down. You could mak e one above and one below, with the line going thru the grommet. I don't see the possibility of doing a gradual turn up and down=C2- withou t intefering with the seat bottom or somthing else. hope this helps some. Brian Long Island, NY I'm thinking about installing two 90 degree elbows - one above and one below the cabin floor, to make a 'Z' bend.=C2- Has anyone else tried this or has a b etter suggestion how to handle this?=C2- If the 'Z' bend works, how can I secure the elbows to the cabin floor? Thanks, Dan Ginty ________________________________________________________________________ AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 unusable fuel From: "jetboy" Chuck, Mine are the same measured at 42.5 litres aside = 10.86 US gal each. I have unported the outlet when running off the tank in nose low and wing down attitudes where the fuel level was lower than 1/4, so I am cautious about feeding off the one side if the level is less than about 12 litres (3 gal) and switch to both for landings. I have cruised on one tank down to 1/8 without problems. The 5 times the engine shutdown were all during manouvers with lots of wing down nose down descent, and it recovered when the I levelled out, after a delay maybe 20 seconds. In some cases I switched tanks. Have not encountered this in normal landing approaches, but nowadays I select both for landing with low levels as an undershoot is not a satisfactory option. Suppose you could add a forward outlet port and tee it lower down like some Cessnas, or make a larger gascolator Zenair style as its like a little header tank ( I have the ACS type ) Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120395#120395 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:56 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Nylon Conduit Routing in Wing From: "dgardea(at)gmail.com" Working on wiring up my left wing (601XL) and I bought this nylon wire conduit from the Van's site. I'd like to keep it out of the wing locker area if possible and also clear of the two aft rear rib holes for the aileron cables. I'm thinking of routing the conduit at the point recommended on 6-LLO-1, 480mm aft of the spar and 40mm down from the top flange of the rear rib. See the pic attached. My question is will this area support a hole large enough for my conduit (about 7/8") without negatively impacting the structure of the rear rib. I may call ZAC tomorrow to get their input, but I'm sure someone has been down this path before. Thanks. Dave Gardea -------- Dave Gardea 601XL - Corvair working on wings http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120399#120399 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p6240030_858.jpg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:28 PM PST US From: burbby Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nylon Conduit Routing in Wing This is where I placed my conduit for electrical. Maybe this will help. Thanks Gary Millsap, TX --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:51 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nylon Conduit Routing in Wing Dave what I did was to suspend my conduit in the first set of lightening holes aft of the spar. I made hangers out of 6061-T6 .016" and drilled them out with a Unibit to accept the correct grommet for the OD of my conduit. The hangers are rivetted to each rib along the way. I used thinwall aluminum tubing fron AS for the conduit. The connectors at the wingroot will enter the fuselage under the front seat support where the spar bolt access plate lets me get to them. I think the photo is small enough not upset anyone. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: dgardea(at)gmail.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Nylon Conduit Routing in Wing Working on wiring up my left wing (601XL) and I bought this nylon wire conduit from the Van's site. I'd like to keep it out of the wing locker area if possible and also clear of the two aft rear rib holes for the aileron cables. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:36 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wheel pants speed On Jun 24, 2007, at 11:26 AM, Frank Derfler wrote: > > * IF you are not the "mechanic", " certificate holder" etc > (depending on the class) and can't take off your own pants, then > the annual is more expen$ive by an hour or more. > Even on certificated aircraft, the pilot-owner is allowed to remove the wheel pants on his airplane. He is, in fact, allowed to remove any non-structural items such as inspection panels, cowlings and fairings in order to perform certain types of routine maintenance on his airplane or prepare it for the annual inspection. On Experimental Amateur Built or E-LSA aircraft, there is no certification of any kind required to remove wheel pants from the airplane or perform maintenance. Certification is only required to perform the annual inspection. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:46 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: airfoil coordinates? From: "Ron Lendon" As I recall having layed out the forms, the rear rib line becomes a straight line towards the rear. If you are using a cad system maybe try placing the radius of the rear flap/aileron at the correct distance/orentation from the spar and join it to the rear ribs using straight lines to that radius in 3D space. I know nothing about designing airfoils so. . . FWIW -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120432#120432 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.