Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:38 AM - Selling my XL project (annette fellabaum)
2. 03:59 AM - Re: Selling my XL project (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
3. 05:02 AM - RE : Selling my XL project (Jean-Paul Roy)
4. 05:22 AM - Re: Canopy Latch (leinad)
5. 05:32 AM - Re: Re: Canopy Latch (wade jones)
6. 06:38 AM - Re: Selling my XL project (robert stone)
7. 07:04 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Bill Naumuk)
8. 07:35 AM - Re: 601 dual time (dgardea(at)gmail.com)
9. 09:00 AM - Primer adhesion (Arthur Olechowski)
10. 09:08 AM - Re: Primer adhesion (Bill Naumuk)
11. 09:11 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 09:51 AM - Re: Canopy Latch (Herb Heaton)
13. 10:01 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Bill Naumuk)
14. 10:06 AM - Underestimation (Bill Naumuk)
15. 10:27 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Bryan Martin)
16. 10:28 AM - Re: Primer adhesion (kevinbonds)
17. 10:39 AM - Re: Primer adhesion (kevinbonds)
18. 10:56 AM - Baggage shelf mod. (alex_01)
19. 11:22 AM - Re: Baggage shelf mod. (Juan Vega)
20. 11:41 AM - Re: Baggage shelf mod. (alex_01)
21. 11:47 AM - Re: Canopy Latch (Dave Thompson)
22. 11:52 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Matt Stecher)
23. 12:35 PM - Re: nylon tube conduit (Dave Thompson)
24. 12:42 PM - Re: Canopy Latch (Malcolm Hunt)
25. 12:46 PM - Re: 601 dual time (Bill Naumuk)
26. 12:47 PM - Re: Mounting horizontal stab and fairings (ALAN BEYER)
27. 01:12 PM - Fw: Mounting horizontal stab and fairings (Carlos Sa)
28. 03:22 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Robert Hansen)
29. 03:57 PM - Re: Mounting horizontal stab and fairings (Edward Moody II)
30. 04:05 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Edward Moody II)
31. 04:35 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Dino Bortolin)
32. 04:37 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Arthur Olechowski)
33. 04:37 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Arthur Olechowski)
34. 04:41 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Arthur Olechowski)
35. 04:47 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Arthur Olechowski)
36. 05:03 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Arthur Olechowski)
37. 07:31 PM - Re: 601 dual time (Paul Mulwitz)
38. 07:43 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Paul Mulwitz)
39. 08:40 PM - Re: 601 dual time (Bryan Martin)
40. 11:38 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
41. 11:41 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Selling my XL project |
I need your help. I have been unemployed now for 15 months due to company downsizing.
And, the prospects of finding another engineering job in Michigan are remote
without my moving. So, I am accepting early retirement (not all bad). However,
finishing an airplane as expensive as the XL is not in the cards either,
and I need to sell my project.
Two weeks ago I put my project up for sale on this site with virtually no respoce
at 10% off list price ( I'm no salesman). I would hope to sell this project
before people spend money at Oshkosh and wait 10 weeks for delivery for the
same items. This is where I need your help.
Is this the best site to sell these sub-kits? If not, where?
What is a fair price if 10% off list is too high? (free is not an option)
Am I better to sell as single unit or as components?
What I have, and the work completed is listed below.
I like the plane, and would not be selling it if finances allowed. But I do need
some help in finding a home for this project.
Tom Fellabaum
Coldwater, MI
fellabaum_t@yahoo.com
Fuel System Kit - Still in original packaging
Tail Kit - Ribs have been rivited to the spars on the horizonal stabilizer -
no other work has
been completed
Wings & Aileron/Flap Kit - Rear ribs have been fitted (clecoed) to the spars
on both wings
- Lower rear skin has been fitted to
the right wing
Changes made to wing - Installed flanged bronze bushings in bellcrank instead
of the steel bushing
- Changed wing tip to complete the Horner
tip from main spar
back. Will explain/change back/ or
price accordingly for the
serious buyer.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
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| Subject: | Re: Selling my XL project |
Tom,
I can tell you from experience that sadly a kit doesn't bring nearly as much
as you paid for it and for some strange reason that is the way it is with
all aviation parts. It all depends on how long you are willing to hold on to it
and finding someone that wants to start one right now. I have seen kits
ranging from 13,000 for an older one up to 16,000 for a new one. This list is
hit
and miss but you would have much more luck putting your add in Barnstormers.
You also need to list the date the kit was manufactured because the older
kits had thinner skins and a weaker firewall. Also what options come with it and
have you built any of the parts. I have seen kits that were for sale and the
workmanship was not all that great so pictures would help also. What part of
the country do you live?
Anyway just some things to consider.
List Asshole
Jeff
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Selling my XL project |
Hello, I don't really know about how much you should ask for your project. Have you tried www.barnstormer.com a great place to sell.
Hope this helps
J.P.
annette fellabaum <fellabaum_t@yahoo.com> a crit :
I need your help. I have been unemployed now for 15 months due to company downsizing.
And, the prospects of finding another engineering job in Michigan are
remote without my moving. So, I am accepting early retirement (not all bad).
However, finishing an airplane as expensive as the XL is not in the cards either,
and I need to sell my project.
Two weeks ago I put my project up for sale on this site with virtually no respoce
at 10% off list price ( I'm no salesman). I would hope to sell this project
before people spend money at Oshkosh and wait 10 weeks for delivery for the
same items. This is where I need your help.
Is this the best site to sell these sub-kits? If not, where?
What is a fair price if 10% off list is too high? (free is not an option)
Am I better to sell as single unit or as components?
What I have, and the work completed is listed below.
I like the plane, and would not be selling it if finances allowed. But I do need
some help in finding a home for this project.
Tom Fellabaum
Coldwater, MI
fellabaum_t@yahoo.com
Fuel System Kit - Still in original packaging
Tail Kit - Ribs have been rivited to the spars on the horizonal stabilizer -
no other work has
been completed
Wings & Aileron/Flap Kit - Rear ribs have been fitted (clecoed) to the spars
on both wings
- Lower rear skin has been fitted to
the right wing
Changes made to wing - Installed flanged bronze bushings in bellcrank instead
of the steel bushing
- Changed wing tip to complete the Horner
tip from main spar
back. Will explain/change back/ or
price accordingly for the
serious buyer.
---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
Changez de tte et de tenue tous les jours si vous le voulez ! Volez la vedette
sur Yahoo! Qubec Avatars
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Latch |
Wade,
I noticed you're plans building.. Where did you get the latch parts? I'm still
looking for a source.
Dan (Plans Build XL/Corvair)
> On this same subject ,what is the striker stud thickness ,part #6-C-2-1. My
> plans make no mention of the diameter of this stud unless I am overlooking
> it. Thanks
>
> Wade Jones South Texas
> 601XL plans building
> Cont. 0200
>
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121515#121515
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Latch |
Leinad ,I have not yet reached the point where I need the latch parts .I
plan to buy them from ZAC if possible .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 7:22 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Latch
>
> Wade,
> I noticed you're plans building.. Where did you get the latch parts? I'm
> still looking for a source.
> Dan (Plans Build XL/Corvair)
>
>
>> On this same subject ,what is the striker stud thickness ,part #6-C-2-1.
>> My
>> plans make no mention of the diameter of this stud unless I am
>> overlooking
>> it. Thanks
>>
>> Wade Jones South Texas
>> 601XL plans building
>> Cont. 0200
>>
>
>
> --------
> Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121515#121515
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Selling my XL project |
Tom,
As two other members of this net have advised, Barnstormers is the
best place to market your kit and the advice you received about being
specific as to how much work has already been done, pictures to show
quality of work and your location is good advice as well. They gave you
everything except the Barnstormer URL so here it is.
http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?
PHPSESSID=2ef94a86daa861b6da018683153522ef
If and when you make a sale they would like a donation however it's
not required. The service is free.
Tracy Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message ----
From: annette fellabaum
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 5:36 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Selling my XL project
I need your help. I have been unemployed now for 15 months due to
company downsizing. And, the prospects of finding another engineering
job in Michigan are remote without my moving. So, I am accepting early
retirement (not all bad). However, finishing an airplane as expensive as
the XL is not in the cards either, and I need to sell my project.
Two weeks ago I put my project up for sale on this site with virtually
no respoce at 10% off list price ( I'm no salesman). I would hope to
sell this project before people spend money at Oshkosh and wait 10 weeks
for delivery for the same items. This is where I need your help.
Is this the best site to sell these sub-kits? If not, where?
What is a fair price if 10% off list is too high? (free is not an
option)
Am I better to sell as single unit or as components?
What I have, and the work completed is listed below.
I like the plane, and would not be selling it if finances allowed. But
I do need some help in finding a home for this project.
Tom Fellabaum
Coldwater, MI
fellabaum_t@yahoo.com
Fuel System Kit - Still in original packaging
Tail Kit - Ribs have been rivited to the spars on the horizonal
stabilizer - no other work has
been completed
Wings & Aileron/Flap Kit - Rear ribs have been fitted (clecoed) to the
spars on both wings
- Lower rear skin has been
fitted to the right wing
Changes made to wing - Installed flanged bronze bushings in
bellcrank instead
of the steel bushing
- Changed wing tip to complete
the Horner tip from main spar
back. Will explain/change
back/ or price accordingly for the
serious buyer.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web
links.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
Bryan-
Very interesting. This is the first comparison of the 601 flight
characteristics to a high wing plane. The CFII I hope to talk into doing my
first test flights and then transition me said the closest certified GA
comparison was a Grumman trainer loaded to the aft CG limits. (How he knows
is beyond me, but I trust him). I've never flown anything that wasn't made
in Wichita, so this could be good news for me. Especially since you can't
rent so much as a Cherokee around here- nothing but Cessnas, Cubs, or
Champs.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Martin" <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time
>
> Before My first flight in my Zodiac, I flew several hours in Cessna 152s
> and 172s. The approach and landing speeds in the Cessnas are very similar
> to the Zodiac and the performance is not drastically different.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
I getting current again by taking instruction in an Evektor Sportstar (see attached
pic). This light sport is very similar in dimensions and performance specs
to the 601XL. Three of my instructor's past students have been Zodiac builders.
I plan to keep flying this plane throughout the construction of my projejct.
Phill, you didn't mention where you're located, but this aircraft is based
in Greenwood, Indiana.
Regards,
Dave
--------
Dave Gardea
601XL - Corvair
working on wings
http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121535#121535
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sportstar_612.jpg
Message 9
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Hi All,
Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc Oxide and I've
experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on where to go from
here.
The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that comes out
of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer proportions as advised
by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg with 72% humidity. The primer
is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes
hasn't quite happened yet. I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface
can be chipped down to the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what
may have caused this and what I should do now?
AJ
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
72% humidity might have something to do with it. Try a dehumidifier in
your shop.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Arthur Olechowski
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
Hi All,
Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc
Oxide and I've experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on
where to go from here.
The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that
comes out of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer
proportions as advised by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg
with 72% humidity. The primer is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and
it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes hasn't quite happened yet.
I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface can be chipped down to
the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what may have caused this
and what I should do now?
AJ
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
Hi Bill,
I hope you aren't planning on doing your transition training in your
own plane. I think that would mean your instructor/test pilot would
need to complete the 40 hours of test program for your plane before
you could do any dual instruction.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 07:05 AM 7/1/2007, you wrote:
>
>Bryan-
> Very interesting. This is the first comparison of the 601 flight
> characteristics to a high wing plane. The CFII I hope to talk into
> doing my first test flights and then transition me said the closest
> certified GA comparison was a Grumman trainer loaded to the aft CG
> limits. (How he knows is beyond me, but I trust him). I've never
> flown anything that wasn't made in Wichita, so this could be good
> news for me. Especially since you can't rent so much as a Cherokee
> around here- nothing but Cessnas, Cubs, or Champs.
> do not archive
>Bill Naumuk
>HDS Fuse/Corvair
>Townville, Pa
Message 12
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Dan,
After some research I found the Canopy Latch at SPAE-NAUR Co. in Toronto,
Canada.
Look at www.spaenaur.com/view_pdf.asp?page=L70
You will need part # 099-030 and 090-031 (right and left). I ordered mine
from Windsor Factory Supply about 4 weeks ago...haven't received the parts
yet. Phone number is 519-966-2202
Price is $25.29 each, this includes the Striker Stud.
Herb
>From: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Latch
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 16:42:05 -0700
>
>
>Does anyone know where to purchase the canopy latch parts?
>Also my drawings show the bottom bracket for the gas spring (6-C-2.2) as
>being 14mm wide. This seams to narrow, and especially as the drawing shows
>the stud sticking out 12mm and coming near flush with an edge of the
>bracket. Perhaps one of you kit builders could measure yours and tell me
>how wide it is. I just spent a laborious hour cutting the steal parts
>using a hack saw, now I think there might be a mistake on the drawing.
>These are drawings dated 1/03.
>Thanks.
>Dan
>601XL/Corvair.. 1/2 way maybe
>
>--------
>Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121442#121442
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
Paul-
No, I don't expect him to fly off the time. I do intend to fly my own
plane-don't have any choice. He can make sure the ship is airworthy before I
take it up. Better than doing everything on my own, although there are tons
of people that have.
No one was available to give dual to the Wright brothers. More than
that, I still can't concieve how their mechanic built an aircraft engine
using only a drill press and a hacksaw!!
Remember, this is EXPERIMENTAL aviation.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> I hope you aren't planning on doing your transition training in your own
> plane. I think that would mean your instructor/test pilot would need to
> complete the 40 hours of test program for your plane before you could do
> any dual instruction.
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
> do not archive
>
> At 07:05 AM 7/1/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>Bryan-
>> Very interesting. This is the first comparison of the 601 flight
>> characteristics to a high wing plane. The CFII I hope to talk into doing
>> my first test flights and then transition me said the closest certified
>> GA comparison was a Grumman trainer loaded to the aft CG limits. (How he
>> knows is beyond me, but I trust him). I've never flown anything that
>> wasn't made in Wichita, so this could be good news for me. Especially
>> since you can't rent so much as a Cherokee around here- nothing but
>> Cessnas, Cubs, or Champs.
>> do not archive
>>Bill Naumuk
>>HDS Fuse/Corvair
>>Townville, Pa
>
>
>
Message 14
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All-
Sorry, I grossly underestimated the time it would take to fabricate
6F13-6 from scratch from scraps. I estimated 15 minutes and it actually
took 27 minutes. I guess I'm a liar and thus a candidate for flogging.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
There are some differences in flight characteristics between the Cessnas
and the Zodiac. The Cessnas are more stable in roll and tend to have a
lower rate of roll even though they require a little less control force
in the roll axis. My Zodiac has a pretty good roll rate and tends to
stay at whatever roll attitude you put it in. My zodiac is also more
sensitive in the pitch axis, especially when at aft CG limit.
Unlike a Cessna, my Zodiac will not lift off on its own, I have to apply
some back pressure to rotate and lift off. The touchdown is a bit
different also. Even if I come in a bit too fast, my Zodiac has very
little tendency to "float", and as soon as the mains touch the ground,
the plane is done flying and will stick right to the runway. I can't
remember ever bouncing it and I've made a few pretty firm landings with
it. I think the Zodiac is easier to land in a crosswind than the Cessnas
I used to fly. Overall, I didn't encounter any really surprising or
scary flight characteristics with the Zodiac.
I had about 300 total hours of flight time when I started flying my
Zodiac. Most of that was in Cessna 150/152 and 172s. I only had about 3
hours in low wing aircraft. I also had a few recent hours in a Cutlass
RG and, several years ago, a few hours in a Cardinal RG. I remember with
the Cardinal that it wasn't hard to get into a pitch oscillation mode on
short final.
Bill Naumuk wrote:
>
> Bryan-
> Very interesting. This is the first comparison of the 601 flight
> characteristics to a high wing plane. The CFII I hope to talk into doing
> my first test flights and then transition me said the closest certified
> GA comparison was a Grumman trainer loaded to the aft CG limits. (How he
> knows is beyond me, but I trust him). I've never flown anything that
> wasn't made in Wichita, so this could be good news for me. Especially
> since you can't rent so much as a Cherokee around here- nothing but
> Cessnas, Cubs, or Champs.
> do not archive
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuse/Corvair
> Townville, Pa
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin"
> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 11:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time
>
>
>> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>>
>> Before My first flight in my Zodiac, I flew several hours in Cessna
>> 152s and 172s. The approach and landing speeds in the Cessnas are very
>> similar to the Zodiac and the performance is not drastically different.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
Message 16
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Are you scuffing the surface or chemical etching at all? I like Alumiprep.
Also I am using Zinc Oxide in the rattle cans instead of Chromate. Think it
is a little safer. Adhesion seems pretty good to me, and I live in
Nashville, Tn. High humidity is just a fact of life here in summer.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 17
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Also, a thin coating will adhere better than a thick one.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
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| Subject: | Baggage shelf mod. |
Hello,
i was always a bit unhappy with the large baggage shelf but when you leave anything
on it(headsets maps etc)it is not so nice to put some bags etc there so we
made 2 carbon composite trays (200mm long 150mm wide 250mm deep) and rivet them
into the shelf - looks good and is very practical.
just incase any of you is interested in them please give me a note as i have the
molds now and we can make some more
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121580#121580
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00037b_797.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00036b_133.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00036_470.jpg
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage shelf mod. |
nice carbon boxes, what kind of carpeting is that? it looks very thin and light
wieght, or is it paint?
-----Original Message-----
>From: alex_01 <zoechling@gmx.de>
>Sent: Jul 1, 2007 1:55 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Baggage shelf mod.
>
>
>Hello,
>i was always a bit unhappy with the large baggage shelf but when you leave anything
on it(headsets maps etc)it is not so nice to put some bags etc there so
we made 2 carbon composite trays (200mm long 150mm wide 250mm deep) and rivet
them into the shelf - looks good and is very practical.
>just incase any of you is interested in them please give me a note as i have the
molds now and we can make some more
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121580#121580
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00037b_797.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00036b_133.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00036_470.jpg
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage shelf mod. |
it is alcantara very very light and looks super also good to keep clean
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121596#121596
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Latch |
The following link does not give you exactly what you are looking for but it
does give a source for some latch handles & stuff.
http://www.southco.com/product/default.aspx?cid=7315
Dave Thompson
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Transitioning & Training Info
I have been researching this same issue but from a student pilots point of
view.
I am very close to soloing in a warrior toward my PP, but work and family
has kept me out of the cockpit for about a month now and I am having trouble
seeing the end of the road. The sport pilot license would help me get a
ticket in less time and if I could do the training in an XL there would be
no transition time short of different systems.
Well I have not found an XL closer than Dallas (to Houston), but I have
found a Tecnam Sierra ( http://www.tecnamaircraft.com/P2002_Sierra.htm )
being offered for training and its specs match the XL very closely.
The Cliff Hyde Flying Service (281-464-6524) at Ellington Field, south of
Houston, is offering this aircraft for training. I think this would be a
good aircraft for transition training to the XL. The only problem is that
its rental rate is $90/hr wet and the instructor is another $30 or so on top
of that. This is the same rate I am paying for my dual training in a
Warrior. This is where I think the Sport Pilot License may not live up to
its name of being a cheaper road to flying. It is true that you only need
half the flight time, but holy cow, These planes are costing 100k to buy and
how am I supposed to afford that?
So for me, I am probably going to finish up my PP in the Warrior and use the
Sierra for my transition training unless an XL pilot in the area is feeling
generous. The sport pilot option is tempting, but I am going to want the
skills offered by the PP in the end anyways so why not go all the way now.
I hope this can help someone.
Happy Building and Flying,
Matt Stecher
Katy, TX
XLVair 1% (but having fun learning)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: nylon tube conduit |
Hey Michael,
> I'm just curious. What's wrong with split?
> Carroll
Guys,
I'm not building yet so this only a guess. It seems to me that the main
reason to use conduit in a wing is to be able to remove, replace or add
wires after skin closure. If I were not planning to perform adds, moves or
changes to a wire run, I would simply bundle the wires along the properly
supported run using either plastic ty-wraps or lacing cord, of course
following the guidelines of AC43.13.1B.
If the conduit is the corrugated split loom also used in autos (or similar),
one cannot pull out existing wires and re-pull others. The split in the loom
will open and make pulling wire a bear to do.
Now, a question you A&P's out there:
AC43.13.1B, Chapter 11, Aircraft electrical systems, Section 8, Wiring
Installation Inspection requirements, Item K states:
"K. Insulating tubing must be kept at a minimum and must be used to protect
wire and cable from abrasion, chafing, exposure to fluid and other
conditions which could affect the cable installation. However, the use of
insulating tubing for support of wires and cables in lieu of stand-offs is
prohibited."
Does that mean that running a tube the length of a wing to support say, wing
tip lighting is prohibited? Or does it mean that the conduit must be
properly supported along its run.
Please archive your answer
Dave Thompson
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Latch |
Canopy latches used by Zenith are Eberhard 1-400 L & R. Modification is
required as per Zenith Drawings.
Look at www.eberhard.com and search rotary latches.
Best regards
Malcolm Hunt
CH601XL plans builder in England----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Thompson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Latch
The following link does not give you exactly what you are looking for
but it does give a source for some latch handles & stuff.
http://www.southco.com/product/default.aspx?cid=7315
Dave Thompson
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
Bryan-
I'm sorry I already killed this post with "Do not archive". This is the
type of information vital to builders getting ready to fly. Very good
description of control inputs.
Three interesting things-
1. "Cessnas require less control force in the roll axis." I always
thought rolling a Cessna was like pushing a concrete block through Jello.
Very mushy.
2. The Zenith is very sensitive in the pitch axis. This has been cited
numerous times by other builders. PIO is a distinct possibility and new
pilots should be on the lookout for this. I know this is my biggest concern.
3. "The Zenith has little tendency to float". This statement surprises
me. I would suspect otherwise, but am glad to hear of it.
Matt, maybe you could archive this one?
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Martin" <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time
>
> There are some differences in flight characteristics between the Cessnas
> and the Zodiac. The Cessnas are more stable in roll and tend to have a
> lower rate of roll even though they require a little less control force in
> the roll axis. My Zodiac has a pretty good roll rate and tends to stay at
> whatever roll attitude you put it in. My zodiac is also more sensitive in
> the pitch axis, especially when at aft CG limit.
>
> Unlike a Cessna, my Zodiac will not lift off on its own, I have to apply
> some back pressure to rotate and lift off. The touchdown is a bit
> different also. Even if I come in a bit too fast, my Zodiac has very
> little tendency to "float", and as soon as the mains touch the ground, the
> plane is done flying and will stick right to the runway. I can't remember
> ever bouncing it and I've made a few pretty firm landings with it. I think
> the Zodiac is easier to land in a crosswind than the Cessnas I used to
> fly. Overall, I didn't encounter any really surprising or scary flight
> characteristics with the Zodiac.
>
> I had about 300 total hours of flight time when I started flying my
> Zodiac. Most of that was in Cessna 150/152 and 172s. I only had about 3
> hours in low wing aircraft. I also had a few recent hours in a Cutlass RG
> and, several years ago, a few hours in a Cardinal RG. I remember with the
> Cardinal that it wasn't hard to get into a pitch oscillation mode on short
> final.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Mounting horizontal stab and fairings |
Dred,
Here are a couple of pics of my HDS.
Al from Oshkosh
----- Original Message ----
From: Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 7:21:13 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting horizontal stab and fairings
Hi to all,
I'm having no luck finding useful photos of the fairing that closes up the gap
under the horizontal stabilizer. If left to my own imagination, I'm sure I
can come up with something but I'd appreciate the opportunity to see what some
of you have done. If you have some useful photos and/or hints, please..... hook
a brother up.
Dred
601XL
Message 27
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| Subject: | Mounting horizontal stab and fairings |
This msg did not get posted due to the zip attachment. I converted the file
to JPEG to reduce its size.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mounting horizontal stab and fairings
I read your note too quickly: I was thinking of the fairing on top of the
stabilizer, in front of the rudder - see attachment (it's a 1.4 MB bitmap,
but only 9K when zipped).
BUT - I did remembered that Peter Chapman posted his solution years ago
(fairing under horiz stab) .
Fortunately, his web site is till around:
http://web.ionsys.com/~pchapman/zdc/zdc_photos_construction.htm
<http://web.ionsys.com/%7Epchapman/zdc/zdc_photos_construction.htm>
Cheers
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
"The Roman Rule - The one who says it can't be done should never interrupt
the one who's doing it."
On 29/06/07, Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net > wrote:
>
> Hi to all,
>
> I'm having no luck finding useful photos of the fairing that closes up
> the gap under the horizontal stabilizer. If left to my own imagination, I'm
> sure I can come up with something but I'd appreciate the opportunity to see
> what some of you have done. If you have some useful photos and/or hints,
> please..... hook a brother up.
>
> Dred
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
I just zinc chromated the skelaton from my 701 rudder and I live in the very dry
Southern New Mexico. We do not measure humidity because we have none (joke).
I too can scratch off the primer with my finger nail. Prior to spraying I cleaned
up the metal with laquer thinner.
see at: http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/
Rob Hansen
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 10:08:52 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
72% humidity might have something to do with it. Try a dehumidifier in your shop.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Arthur Olechowski
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
Hi All,
Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc Oxide and I've
experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on where to go from here.
The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that comes out of
a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer proportions as advised
by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg with 72% humidity. The primer is
suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes
hasn't quite happened yet. I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface
can be chipped down to the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what may
have caused this and what I should do now?
AJ
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Mounting horizontal stab and fairings |
Thanks to all who have sent photos and drawings and offered help. I
think I have a handle on what I want to do and how to do it now.
Dred
Do Not Archive
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
I'm not a paint expert..... in fact, I hate painting, but I think your
problem is that you expected the primer to get hard much too fast. I
have found that using self etching Zinc Oxide from rattle cans, cleaning
the aluminum with laquer thinner (repeatedly until clean and fairly
streak free) then following the directions works well. The primer can be
scatched off pretty easily until it has had a few days to harden.
Gradually it takes much more than a fingernail to get through it. You
can etch before priming..... you can scratch the hell out of the parts
with scotchbrite, emery cloth, a rock from the nearby streambed,
whatever. But until the primer itself is tough, it can be pulled off the
surface. Try giving it more time if you can.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Arthur Olechowski
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 10:58 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
Hi All,
Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc
Oxide and I've experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on
where to go from here.
The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that
comes out of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer
proportions as advised by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg
with 72% humidity. The primer is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and
it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes hasn't quite happened yet.
I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface can be chipped down to
the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what may have caused this
and what I should do now?
AJ
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
6/30/2007 3:10 PM
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
I'm no expert on this, but it sounds like a surface preparation problem to
me. I just zinc chromated the inside of my rudder trim tab yesterday. I
scuffed the surface with a Scotchbrite pad, washed it with warm water and
lemon-scented dish soap, and rinsed it with hot water. Didn't use any
solvents. Let it air dry and brushed the chromate on with a disposable
sponge brush. Then attempted to mow the lawn (realized I didn't have gas,
didn't feel like going out to buy any!) and came back 30 minutes later. At
that point it was dry enough that I was able to clamp the piece in my brake
and form the trim tab without any coming off the surface.
Dino Bortolin
601XL plans/Corvair
On 7/1/07, Arthur Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc Oxide
> and I've experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on where to
> go from here.
> The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that comes
> out of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer proportions
> as advised by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg with 72% humidity.
> The primer is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did but the fully
> cured in 30 minutes hasn't quite happened yet. I've allowed it to cure
> overnight and the surface can be chipped down to the chem-film with a
> fingernail. Any ideas what may have caused this and what I should do now?
>
> AJ
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 32
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|
Kevin,
I've scuffed everything with 3M scotchbrite, degreased, alumiprep'd, alodined,
rinsed and allowed it to dry overnight and then primed. I think I may have
too thick of a coating.
do not archive
AJ
kevinbonds <kevinbonds@comcast.net> wrote:
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Are you scuffing
the surface or chemical etching at all? I like Alumiprep. Also I am using Zinc
Oxide in the rattle cans instead of Chromate. Think it is a little safer. Adhesion
seems pretty good to me, and I live in Nashville, Tn. High humidity is just
a fact of life here in summer.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 33
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I believe that may be my problem.
do not archive
AJ
kevinbonds <kevinbonds@comcast.net> wrote:
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Also, a thin coating
will adhere better than a thick one.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
Rob,
I like your nifty plans storage desk on your site, not to mention your actual
dedicated shop.
do not archive
AJ
Robert Hansen <stol701@yahoo.com> wrote:
I just zinc chromated the skelaton from my 701 rudder and I live in the
very dry Southern New Mexico. We do not measure humidity because we have none
(joke). I too can scratch off the primer with my finger nail. Prior to spraying
I cleaned up the metal with laquer thinner.
see at: http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/
Rob Hansen
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 10:08:52 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
72% humidity might have something to do with it. Try a dehumidifier in your
shop.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Arthur Olechowski
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
Hi All,
Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc Oxide and I've
experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on where to go from
here.
The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that comes out
of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer proportions as advised
by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg with 72% humidity. The primer
is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes
hasn't quite happened yet. I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface
can be chipped down to the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what
may have caused this and what I should do now?
AJ
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
Dred,
I agree, more cure time is necessary prior to assembly. Dryer weather would
nice its been raining all week long. I think I should of cranked the AC on for
awhile prior to priming to remove some of the humidity.
do not archive
AJ
Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net> wrote:
I'm not a paint expert..... in fact, I hate painting, but I think your
problem is that you expected the primer to get hard much too fast. I have found
that using self etching Zinc Oxide from rattle cans, cleaning the aluminum
with laquer thinner (repeatedly until clean and fairly streak free) then following
the directions works well. The primer can be scatched off pretty easily
until it has had a few days to harden. Gradually it takes much more than a fingernail
to get through it. You can etch before priming..... you can scratch the
hell out of the parts with scotchbrite, emery cloth, a rock from the nearby
streambed, whatever. But until the primer itself is tough, it can be pulled off
the surface. Try giving it more time if you can.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Arthur Olechowski
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 10:58 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
Hi All,
Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc Oxide and I've
experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on where to go from
here.
The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that comes out
of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer proportions as advised
by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg with 72% humidity. The primer
is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes
hasn't quite happened yet. I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface
can be chipped down to the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what
may have caused this and what I should do now?
AJ
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
---------------------------------
Date: 6/30/2007 3:10 PM
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
Dino,
I scuffed with 3M scotchbrite, degreased, rinsed then alumiprep'd and rinsed
again then alodined and rinsed again allowed to dry overnight and then primed.
I think the problem was the amount of primer applied was to thick with high
humidity.
do not archive
AJ
Dino Bortolin <dbortol@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm no expert on this, but it sounds like a surface preparation problem to me.
I just zinc chromated the inside of my rudder trim tab yesterday. I scuffed
the surface with a Scotchbrite pad, washed it with warm water and lemon-scented
dish soap, and rinsed it with hot water. Didn't use any solvents. Let it air
dry and brushed the chromate on with a disposable sponge brush. Then attempted
to mow the lawn (realized I didn't have gas, didn't feel like going out to buy
any!) and came back 30 minutes later. At that point it was dry enough that
I was able to clamp the piece in my brake and form the trim tab without any coming
off the surface.
Dino Bortolin
601XL plans/Corvair
On 7/1/07, Arthur Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Hi All,
Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc Oxide and I've
experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on where to go from
here.
The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that comes out
of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer proportions as advised
by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg with 72% humidity. The primer
is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes
hasn't quite happened yet. I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface
can be chipped down to the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what
may have caused this and what I should do now?
AJ
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
Hi Bill,
I guess I am jumping to conclusions on this subject. I don't think
you can do any dual instruction in your new plane until the phase 1
flight testing is complete. Before that time only the necessary crew
(i.e. the PIC) is allowed to fly in the plane.
If this is true then you can't do the transition in your own plane
and also do some of the flight testing. I also learned from the EAA
insurance outfit that they want 601 flight time for me (perhaps 5
hours?) before they will cover me flying my own plane. That is funny
since I have many hours flying much more difficult planes than
that. Still, I must travel to California or elsewhere for a checkout
in some Zodiac before I can be covered flying in my plane.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:01 AM 7/1/2007, you wrote:
>
>Paul-
> No, I don't expect him to fly off the time. I do intend to fly
> my own plane-don't have any choice. He can make sure the ship is
> airworthy before I take it up. Better than doing everything on my
> own, although there are tons of people that have.
> No one was available to give dual to the Wright brothers. More
> than that, I still can't concieve how their mechanic built an
> aircraft engine using only a drill press and a hacksaw!!
> Remember, this is EXPERIMENTAL aviation.
>Bill Naumuk
>HDS Fuse/Corvair
>Townville, Pa
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
Hi AJ,
I have spent a lot of time and not a small amount of money
researching what paints will work on aluminum that I can get locally
and don't cost the earth to buy. The problem with aluminum is the
oxide that forms almost instantly prevents paint from sticking.
I have two different solutions - one for the interior paint and one
for exterior.
For the interior I wanted flat grey paint. This wound up being self
etching primer from SEM. I prep the surface with fairly coarse sand
paper (100 or 150 grit?) and clean it with lacquer thinner before
painting. This sticks like glue. For contrast on the interior
paint, I like flat black enamel in rattle cans. To get this to work
well with the self etching primer, I need to use an additional primer
in between the self etching primer and top coat. Without the
intermediate primer, the top coat nearly lifts the self etching
primer right off the aluminum.
For the exterior I am using the same self etching primer along with
epoxy primer and finally acrylic enamel. The last two products are
from PPG. This is less expensive than the popular urethane enamel
and is less toxic too.
Pricing for the self etching primer at my local professional paint
store runs about $12 for a rattle can and $22 for a quart. The PPG
epoxy primer and acrylic enamel run an average of around $100 per
gallon when you include the required hardeners and thinners.
For aircraft steel parts, the epoxy primer works incredibly well
directly on the steel. I don't think it needs a top coat if the
appearance isn't important like on the flap torque tubes.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 08:58 AM 7/1/2007, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc
>Oxide and I've experienced poor adhesion results. I need some
>advise on where to go from here.
>The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that
>comes out of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer
>proportions as advised by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70
>deg with 72% humidity. The primer is suppose dry tack free in 5
>minutes and it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes hasn't quite
>happened yet. I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface can
>be chipped down to the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what
>may have caused this and what I should do now?
>
>AJ
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
The Cessna requires less force to move the yoke in the roll axis but has
a slower response and lower roll rate and there's more motion required
to get full deflection. Full stick deflection on my Zodiac requires a
little bit more force but there's nothing sluggish about the response.
If you bring a Cessna in a little too fast, it doesn't want to stop
flying until you bleed off that extra speed. If you try to force it to
touch down, it's easy to bounce it back into the air. If I bring my
Zodiac in a little too fast, I can ease the mains onto the runway then
the nose comes down and it'll stay solidly on the ground. Or I can hold
it in the flare and let it float until the speed bleeds off before
touching down. Being a lot lighter than a Cessna, it seems that the
extra speed bleeds off quicker, giving less float.
Bill Naumuk wrote:
>
> Bryan-
> I'm sorry I already killed this post with "D n a". This is
> the type of information vital to builders getting ready to fly. Very
> good description of control inputs.
> Three interesting things-
> 1. "Cessnas require less control force in the roll axis." I always
> thought rolling a Cessna was like pushing a concrete block through
> Jello. Very mushy.
> 2. The Zenith is very sensitive in the pitch axis. This has been
> cited numerous times by other builders. PIO is a distinct possibility
> and new pilots should be on the lookout for this. I know this is my
> biggest concern.
> 3. "The Zenith has little tendency to float". This statement
> surprises me. I would suspect otherwise, but am glad to hear of it.
> Matt, maybe you could archive this one?
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuse/Corvair
> Townville, Pa
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin"
> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 1:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time
>
>
>> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>>
>> There are some differences in flight characteristics between the
>> Cessnas and the Zodiac. The Cessnas are more stable in roll and tend
>> to have a lower rate of roll even though they require a little less
>> control force in the roll axis. My Zodiac has a pretty good roll rate
>> and tends to stay at whatever roll attitude you put it in. My zodiac
>> is also more sensitive in the pitch axis, especially when at aft CG
>> limit.
>>
>> Unlike a Cessna, my Zodiac will not lift off on its own, I have to
>> apply some back pressure to rotate and lift off. The touchdown is a
>> bit different also. Even if I come in a bit too fast, my Zodiac has
>> very little tendency to "float", and as soon as the mains touch the
>> ground, the plane is done flying and will stick right to the runway. I
>> can't remember ever bouncing it and I've made a few pretty firm
>> landings with it. I think the Zodiac is easier to land in a crosswind
>> than the Cessnas I used to fly. Overall, I didn't encounter any really
>> surprising or scary flight characteristics with the Zodiac.
>>
>> I had about 300 total hours of flight time when I started flying my
>> Zodiac. Most of that was in Cessna 150/152 and 172s. I only had about
>> 3 hours in low wing aircraft. I also had a few recent hours in a
>> Cutlass RG and, several years ago, a few hours in a Cardinal RG. I
>> remember with the Cardinal that it wasn't hard to get into a pitch
>> oscillation mode on short final.
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Message 40
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| Subject: | Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Zenith-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Zenith-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Zenith-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Zenith-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
zenith-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "zenith-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Zenith-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Zenith-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/zenith-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Zenith-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Zenith-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Zenith-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Zenith-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
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