Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:10 AM - Re: Primer adhesion (Robert Hansen)
2. 04:30 AM - 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin (Geoff Heap)
3. 05:43 AM - Re: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin (Dave Austin)
4. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Baggage shelf mod. (Juan Vega)
5. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Baggage shelf mod. (Juan Vega)
6. 06:02 AM - 601 dual time (Frank Derfler)
7. 06:15 AM - Re: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin (Geoff Heap)
8. 06:47 AM - Re: Baggage shelf mod. (alex_01)
9. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: Baggage shelf mod. (Robin Bellach)
10. 06:56 AM - CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! (Brett Hanley)
11. 07:08 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Bill Naumuk)
12. 07:27 AM - Re: 601 dual time (R.P.)
13. 07:34 AM - Re: Primer adhesion (Bill Naumuk)
14. 07:37 AM - Re: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! (Roger Venables)
15. 07:54 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Gig Giacona)
16. 07:55 AM - Re: 601 dual time (R.P.)
17. 08:06 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Bryan Martin)
18. 08:27 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Gig Giacona)
19. 08:31 AM - Re: 601 dual time (rickpitcher)
20. 08:33 AM - Re: 601 dual time (rickpitcher)
21. 08:34 AM - Re: 601 dual time (rickpitcher)
22. 09:21 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Tim Juhl)
23. 10:39 AM - Re: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! (LarryMcFarland)
24. 11:11 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Paul Mulwitz)
25. 12:07 PM - Re: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin (NYTerminat@aol.com)
26. 12:09 PM - CH 701/Subaru first flight (Brett Hanley)
27. 12:39 PM - Re: 601 dual time (Juan Vega)
28. 01:42 PM - CH-801 Plans (kb2qqm)
29. 02:56 PM - Canopy latching system (robert stone)
30. 03:35 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (Jaybannist@cs.com)
31. 03:35 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (wade jones)
32. 04:10 PM - Re: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! (Matt Stecher)
33. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: 601 dual time (Matt Stecher)
34. 04:19 PM - 701 (Ben Ramler)
35. 04:28 PM - Re: 601 dual time (Juan Vega)
36. 05:04 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (robert stone)
37. 06:02 PM - Re: CH 701/Subaru first flight (Arthur Olechowski)
38. 06:04 PM - Shipping prices (wade jones)
39. 06:04 PM - Re: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! (n801bh@netzero.com)
40. 06:15 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (Phil Maxson)
41. 06:36 PM - Re: CH-801 Plans (NYTerminat@aol.com)
42. 07:02 PM - Re: CH-801 Plans (Jaybannist@cs.com)
43. 07:38 PM - Re: CH-801 Plans (kb2qqm)
44. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: CH-801 Plans (NYTerminat@aol.com)
45. 08:13 PM - Re: Re: CH-801 Plans (ZodieRocket)
46. 08:28 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Noel Loveys)
47. 08:32 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (robert stone)
48. 08:36 PM - Re: Shipping prices (robert stone)
49. 08:45 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Arthur Olechowski)
50. 09:02 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Arthur Olechowski)
51. 09:24 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (Steve Shuck)
52. 09:39 PM - Re: 601 dual time (Bryan Martin)
53. 09:46 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (Bryan Martin)
54. 10:15 PM - Re: Shipping prices (Bryan Martin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
Thank You AJ,
My shop is nothing more then a metal building w/ a dirt floor. I posted my reply
on the primer before waiting a couple days to see how it set up. I will be back
at the "airplane factory" tonight, so I will see how it is doing.
Rob
----- Original Message ----
From: Arthur Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 5:40:53 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
Rob,
I like your nifty plans storage desk on your site, not to mention your actual dedicated
shop.
do not archive
AJ
Robert Hansen <stol701@yahoo.com> wrote:
I just zinc chromated the skelaton from my 701 rudder and I live in the very dry
Southern New Mexico. We do not measure humidity because we have none (joke).
I too can scratch off the primer with my finger nail. Prior to spraying I cleaned
up the metal with laquer thinner.
see at: http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/
Rob Hansen
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 10:08:52 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
72% humidity might have something to do with it. Try a dehumidifier in your shop.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Arthur Olechowski
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
Hi All,
Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc Oxide and I've
experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on where to go from here.
The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that comes out of
a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer proportions as advised
by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg with 72% humidity. The primer is
suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes
hasn't quite happened yet. I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface
can be chipped down to the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what may
have caused this and what I should do now?
AJ
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
Message 2
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| Subject: | 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin |
Hi Guys
701 photo guide calls for the cowling to be mounted INSIDE the fwd fuse skins
where they overlap just past the firewall but I see a number of photos showing
builders have mounted it on the outside. Any comments appreciated. ,,,,Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121733#121733
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin |
Geoff,
The pressure inside the cowl seals the cowl to the skins if you put the cowl
inside.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage shelf mod. |
Alex,
what is alcantara? paint or rug? never heard of it.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: alex_01 <zoechling@gmx.de>
>Sent: Jul 1, 2007 2:41 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Baggage shelf mod.
>
>
>it is alcantara very very light and looks super also good to keep clean
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121596#121596
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage shelf mod. |
Alex,
what is alcantara? paint or rug? never heard of it.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: alex_01 <zoechling@gmx.de>
>Sent: Jul 1, 2007 2:41 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Baggage shelf mod.
>
>
>it is alcantara very very light and looks super also good to keep clean
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121596#121596
>
>
Message 6
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Observation: Every time I put a certificated pilot ... particularly a
Cessna driver... into the other seat of my 601 and let them take off, I
make a little box around the stick with my hands. I'm not guarding the roll
axis, but I sure do limit their ability to overcontrol in pitch. Cessna
drivers usually bang into my thumbs on the climb.
Observation: I owned a Grumman Cheetah before the 601. The Cheetah was an
excellent transition to the 601. (Although the Cheetah is quieter and,
because it is heavier, not quite so likely to "lift a wing" in a gust)
Observation: A light sport aircraft is, by definition, lighter! That means
that you notice the wind more. In my 601 the roll sensitivity is altered by
wind more than any other aircraft I've flown and it is more difficult than
other aircraft to keep on a precise course if you are trying to track within
a few degrees of the wind. In other words, the tail keeps trying to line up
with the wind and you feel every gust. (Yes, that's true of every airplane,
in my experience, but you feel it more in the 601because it's a lighter
plane.)
Story: Last Saturday morning I was trying to fly due North out of
Marathon. The wind was from about 005-010 and variable. Well, I could hold
about every heading but due North. It seemed like every correction to get
back on due north was either too much or not enough. Left of the wind was
one flight configuration and right of the wind was a whole different
configuration. In my personal opinion, the logic behind the less stick
time criteria for the light sport license is hooie. Sometimes / often you
have to have more pilotage skill to do things right in a lighter airplane.
Conclusion: A lot of the difference between the flight characteristics of
the 601 and other aircraft comes from the weight. And, I think the
insurance companies have it right: the best transition into a 601 is from a
601. --Frank Derfler
-- See My Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly)
illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com
- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM
-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at
www.KEYSBOATER.com
-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin |
Dave This sounds like a good thing
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121745#121745
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage shelf mod. |
my interia and all seats are done in it you can get it with your local trim guy
not very expensive at all and looks like suede but easier to clean and very comfortable
to seat on it
Alcantara (material)
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
AlcantaraAlcantara is the name given to a composite material used to cover surfaces
and forms in a variety of situations and applications.
The material was developed in the 1970s by Miyoshi Okamoto, a scientist working
for the Japanese chemical company Toray [1]. In 1972, a joint venture between
Italian chemical company ENI and Toray formed Alcantara SpA in order to manufacture
and distribute the material [2].
Alcantara is created via the combination of an advanced spinning process (producing
very low denier bi-component "islands in the sea" fibre) and chemical and
textile production processes (needle punching, buffing, impregnation, extraction,
finishing, dyeing, etc.) which interact with each other.
[edit] Current Applications
A versatile material, Alcantara is found in a variety of settings. The company
outlines applications including furniture, clothing, jewelery, automotive, helmets
and more.
The appearance and tactile feel of the material is similar to that of suede, and
it may be incorrectly identified as such on occasion. Alcantara can be found
in high-end cars produced by such brands as Audi, BMW, Ferrari, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz,
and Porsche. It is finding application in seating as well as dash trimming
due to its hard-wearing yet luxurious-looking properties
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121750#121750
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0110_254.jpg
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage shelf mod. |
>From what I've found so far, alcantara seems to be a form of artificial
suede of sorts.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Baggage shelf mod.
>
> Alex,
> what is alcantara? paint or rug? never heard of it.
>
> Juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: alex_01 <zoechling@gmx.de>
>>Sent: Jul 1, 2007 2:41 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Baggage shelf mod.
>>
>>
>>it is alcantara very very light and looks super also good to keep clean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121596#121596
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! |
N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith list was
the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty uneventful minutes. Oil
temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225. I am very pleased with those
temps. We still need to tune the radiator intake and exhaust plenum sizes to
optimize cooling. The plenum design in rear fuselage will work just fine.
STOL 701
Subaru EA-81
RFI plans built redrive
Andres exhaust
Stratus intake and electrical
Gotta Fly,
Brett
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
Paul-
Sounds like a real Catch-22 situation, especially the risk my CFI would
be taking if there were no insurance coverage for at least liability and
medical. Same for any soul brave enough to allow dual in his Zodiac. I
believe there was a recent post that brought up that subject.
You're probably not jumping to conclusions, I've got to take off the
rose colored glasses and prepare for another bump in the road. Sounds like
there are plenty of listers out there in the same boat.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> I guess I am jumping to conclusions on this subject. I don't think you
> can do any dual instruction in your new plane until the phase 1 flight
> testing is complete. Before that time only the necessary crew (i.e. the
> PIC) is allowed to fly in the plane.
>
> If this is true then you can't do the transition in your own plane and
> also do some of the flight testing. I also learned from the EAA insurance
> outfit that they want 601 flight time for me (perhaps 5 hours?) before
> they will cover me flying my own plane. That is funny since I have many
> hours flying much more difficult planes than that. Still, I must travel
> to California or elsewhere for a checkout in some Zodiac before I can be
> covered flying in my plane.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
>
> At 10:01 AM 7/1/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>Paul-
>> No, I don't expect him to fly off the time. I do intend to fly my own
>> plane-don't have any choice. He can make sure the ship is airworthy
>> before I take it up. Better than doing everything on my own, although
>> there are tons of people that have.
>> No one was available to give dual to the Wright brothers. More than
>> that, I still can't concieve how their mechanic built an aircraft engine
>> using only a drill press and a hacksaw!!
>> Remember, this is EXPERIMENTAL aviation.
>>Bill Naumuk
>>HDS Fuse/Corvair
>>Townville, Pa
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
> I also learned from the EAA insurance outfit that they want 601 flight
> time for me (perhaps 5 hours?) before they will cover me flying my own
> plane. That is funny since I have many hours flying much more difficult
> planes than that. Still, I must travel to California or elsewhere for a
> checkout in some Zodiac before I can be covered flying in my plane.
>
Give the insurance agent a call and ask if a "similar" aircraft would
suffice.
The agency that I use for insurance http://www.skysmith.com/ asked for
recent hours in a 601 when I first asked about insurance. I told them that
there were no 601's available for rent, but I *could* get a few hours in
another low-wing fixed gear airpalne prior to my first flight in the Zodiac.
They agreed to 2 hours in a Cherokee.
No problem... those are available almost everywhere. I went up with the
FBO's instructor for a couple of hours, got my BFR signed off, and satisfied
the insurance company's request.
Rick
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
All-
We may be talking apples and oranges here, because I'm using Zinc
Oxide rather than Chromate.
This spring when we had high humidity from all the snow melting off
it would take two days for parts to tack dry. It hasn't rained in a week
and yesterday I shot a couple of parts and they were dry as a bone in an
hour. Just an observation, not a hard and fast recommendation.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Hansen
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
Thank You AJ,
My shop is nothing more then a metal building w/ a dirt floor. I
posted my reply on the primer before waiting a couple days to see how it
set up. I will be back at the "airplane factory" tonight, so I will see
how it is doing.
Rob
----- Original Message ----
From: Arthur Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 5:40:53 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
Rob,
I like your nifty plans storage desk on your site, not to mention your
actual dedicated shop.
do not archive
AJ
Robert Hansen <stol701@yahoo.com> wrote:
I just zinc chromated the skelaton from my 701 rudder and I live in
the very dry Southern New Mexico. We do not measure humidity because we
have none (joke). I too can scratch off the primer with my finger nail.
Prior to spraying I cleaned up the metal with laquer thinner.
see at: http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/
Rob Hansen
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 10:08:52 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
72% humidity might have something to do with it. Try a dehumidifier
in your shop.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Arthur Olechowski
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
Hi All,
Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc
Oxide and I've experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on
where to go from here.
The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that
comes out of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer
proportions as advised by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg
with 72% humidity. The primer is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and
it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes hasn't quite happened yet.
I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface can be chipped down to
the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what may have caused this
and what I should do now?
AJ
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
Message 14
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| Subject: | CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! |
Congratulations!
Roger Venables
CH 701 working on wiring
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Hanley
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 6:54 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!!
N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith list
was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty uneventful minutes.
Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225. I am very pleased
with those temps. We still need to tune the radiator intake and exhaust
plenum sizes to optimize cooling. The plenum design in rear fuselage will
work just fine.
STOL 701
Subaru EA-81
RFI plans built redrive
Andres exhaust
Stratus intake and electrical
Gotta Fly,
Brett
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
Where did you find an XL in Dallas for training? Do you have a phone number?
mrcc1234(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
>
> Well I have not found an XL closer than Dallas
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121768#121768
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Derfler" <fderfler@gmail.com>
> In my personal opinion, the logic behind the less stick
> time criteria for the light sport license is hooie. Sometimes / often you
> have to have more pilotage skill to do things right in a lighter airplane.
>
I think the logic is that there is a new *minimum*.
Quite a few people have already got some stick time in "fat ultralights" or
have been flying with other pilots for years. They will benefit from the
minimum of 20 hours for Sport Pilot v/s 40 hours for Private pilot.
And a few folks are just fast learners.
Rick
Rick
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
If you have a pilot certificate but just haven't flown much lately, the
first thing you should do is find a CFI and get current again in ANY
airplane. Get back in the air and get comfortable flying again. Then if
you still have trouble finding a 601, see if you can get some time in a
few different types. That will get you used to the idea that not all
airplanes handle the same. I would recommend getting at least some stick
time in a 601. Then you'll have to decide if you feel comfortable test
flying your own 601.
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
Rick, I can't read a word you type on the forum.
rickpitcher wrote:
> ---
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121782#121782
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
Give the insurance agent a call and ask if a "similar" aircraft would
suffice.
The agency that I use for insurance http://www.skysmith.com/ asked for
recent hours in a 601 when I first asked about insurance. I told them that
there were no 601's available for rent, but I *could* get a few hours in
another low-wing fixed gear airpalne prior to my first flight in the Zodiac.
They agreed to 2 hours in a Cherokee.
No problem... those are available almost everywhere. I went up with the
FBO's instructor for a couple of hours, got my BFR signed off, and satisfied
the insurance company's request.
Rick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121785#121785
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Derfler"
> In my personal opinion, the logic behind the less stick
> time criteria for the light sport license is hooie. Sometimes / often you
> have to have more pilotage skill to do things right in a lighter airplane.
>
I think the logic is that there is a new *minimum*.
Quite a few people have already got some stick time in "fat ultralights" or
have been flying with other pilots for years. They will benefit from the
minimum of 20 hours for Sport Pilot v/s 40 hours for Private pilot.
And a few folks are just fast learners.
Rick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121786#121786
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
Gig Giacona wrote:
> Rick, I can't read a word you type on the forum.
>
>
> rickpitcher wrote:
> > ---
>
Thanks Gig. That seems to happen when I reply to Matronics' emails.
I reposted from the web-based forum.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121787#121787
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
After reading all the good responses to this subject I feel the need to inject
a few more comments.
In preparing to test fly your own XL you need to consider a few factors.
Frequency - Have you been flying enough to keep your skills up? I would especially
practice takeoffs and landings and practice elevator control. Try making
landings where you touch down on the mains and hold the nose off for awhile -
use power to assure a smooth touchdown and the elevator to control the nose attitude....
this won't necessarily duplicate the feel of a Zodiac but it requires
a little more skill to accomplish smoothly and should help prepare you for
the Zodiac's reputed pitch sensitivity. Did I mention keep it going straight
with no side load?
Variety - do you always fly the same aircraft or make/model? Sometimes you get
so used to one plane that even a slight change in flight characteristics can
throw you. If you can get flight time in different aircraft you learn more how
to control for desired result as compared to simply flying by rote. Obviously
the stick control will be a little different so some time in a plane with a
stick would be helpful. If you have a friend with a stick airplane go up and
do some airwork (especially turns and slow flight) and just get the feel of
it. Landings would be nice but not necessary to get the "feel."
Instruction - having a CFI along can reduce the stress level and help maximize
your training experience. If you can find a close match to a Zodiac then so much
the better. I taught a guy to fly in a T-tailed Tomahawk and I have never
known an airplane where it was so easy to drag the tail. The elevator was very
powerful, even at low speeds. You had to set the landing attitude and use
power to control the final descent to touchdown, much like a larger, heavier aircraft.
The T-hawk is still in use by some flight schools and might be easier
to find than a Zodiac......
The bottom line is that you should be willing to do what it takes to prepare to
safely test fly your aircraft or find someone with more experience to do so.
Don't let ego get in the way as the consequences are far too grave.
Tim
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121794#121794
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! |
Congratulations Brett,
Post some pictures and more data when you can.
I bet it climbs like a billy goat.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Brett Hanley wrote:
> N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith
> list was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty
> uneventful minutes. Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below
> 225. I am very pleased with those temps. We still need to tune the
> radiator intake and exhaust plenum sizes to optimize cooling. The
> plenum design in rear fuselage will work just fine.
>
> STOL 701
> Subaru EA-81
> RFI plans built redrive
> Andres exhaust
> Stratus intake and electrical
>
> Gotta Fly,
> Brett
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
Hi Bill,
My understanding is that an experimental aircraft cannot be used for
training unless the owner is either the instructor or
student. However, there are a few XLs in commercial service that can
be used for dual instruction. I have heard of two in California and
one in Arizona. There used to be one in Virginia, but that one is no
longer available. More may become available in time for your
transition training. The folks at AMD are selling them as fast as they can.
I am not personally so concerned about insurance for flight testing,
but my wife is. She strongly wants me to have liability coverage for
any flights. Must be a gender thing . . .
Paul
XL fuselage (almost done)
At 07:05 AM 7/2/2007, you wrote:
>Paul-
> Sounds like a real Catch-22 situation, especially the risk my
> CFI would be taking if there were no insurance coverage for at
> least liability and medical. Same for any soul brave enough to
> allow dual in his Zodiac. I believe there was a recent post that
> brought up that subject.
> You're probably not jumping to conclusions, I've got to take off
> the rose colored glasses and prepare for another bump in the road.
> Sounds like there are plenty of listers out there in the same boat.
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin |
Geoff,
I mounted mine outside, I have a Skyshops firewall forward package
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 7/2/2007 7:31:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
stol10@comcast.net writes:
Guys
701 photo guide calls for the cowling to be mounted INSIDE the fwd fuse
skins where they overlap just past the firewall but I see a number of photos
showing builders have mounted it on the outside. Any comments appreciated.
,,,,Geoff
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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| Subject: | CH 701/Subaru first flight |
N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith list was
the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty uneventful minutes. Oil
temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225. I am very pleased with those
temps. We still need to tune the radiator intake and exhaust plenum sizes to
optimize cooling. The plenum design in rear fuselage will work just fine.
STOL 701
Subaru EA-81
RFI plans built redrive
Andres exhaust
Stratus intake and electrical
Gotta Fly,
Brett
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
all,
a good trainer for the 601 is the Diamond Katana, same specs in performance r close.
for exception of elevator pitch sensitivity.
put 100 hours in the Katana, and flew the 601 no problem.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Frank Derfler <fderfler@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jul 2, 2007 9:01 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: 601 dual time
>
>Observation: Every time I put a certificated pilot ... particularly a
>Cessna driver... into the other seat of my 601 and let them take off, I
>make a little box around the stick with my hands. I'm not guarding the roll
>axis, but I sure do limit their ability to overcontrol in pitch. Cessna
>drivers usually bang into my thumbs on the climb.
>
>Observation: I owned a Grumman Cheetah before the 601. The Cheetah was an
>excellent transition to the 601. (Although the Cheetah is quieter and,
>because it is heavier, not quite so likely to "lift a wing" in a gust)
>Observation: A light sport aircraft is, by definition, lighter! That means
>that you notice the wind more. In my 601 the roll sensitivity is altered by
>wind more than any other aircraft I've flown and it is more difficult than
>other aircraft to keep on a precise course if you are trying to track within
>a few degrees of the wind. In other words, the tail keeps trying to line up
>with the wind and you feel every gust. (Yes, that's true of every airplane,
>in my experience, but you feel it more in the 601because it's a lighter
>plane.)
>
>Story: Last Saturday morning I was trying to fly due North out of
>Marathon. The wind was from about 005-010 and variable. Well, I could hold
>about every heading but due North. It seemed like every correction to get
>back on due north was either too much or not enough. Left of the wind was
>one flight configuration and right of the wind was a whole different
>configuration. In my personal opinion, the logic behind the less stick
>time criteria for the light sport license is hooie. Sometimes / often you
>have to have more pilotage skill to do things right in a lighter airplane.
>
>Conclusion: A lot of the difference between the flight characteristics of
>the 601 and other aircraft comes from the weight. And, I think the
>insurance companies have it right: the best transition into a 601 is from a
>601. --Frank Derfler
>-- See My Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly)
>illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com
>
>- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM
>
>-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at
>www.KEYSBOATER.com
>
>-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
Message 28
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Are plans available from Zenith to scratch build the 801?
I like the 701, but the 801 would suit my needs better.
Greg.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121848#121848
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| Subject: | Canopy latching system |
Wade,
I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from
Zenith.
I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new.
First
the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net
members, I
raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then
the
canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open it
turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to
eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I
have
enclosed a picture of. I would advise anyone building this aircraft to
do
the same. This is the system being used on all KR aircraft and I know
from
experence, it works fine and if you are scratch building it's a lot
cheaper.
Tracy Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
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| Subject: | Canopy latching system |
Tracy,
I know that the ZAC latching system is somewhat "mickey mouse," but, for the life
of me, I don't see how your pictured latches would work. If they are mounted
outside, how do you latch them from inside (and visa versa)? Maybe I'm missing
something. How do the KR guys work them?
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
"robert stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote:
>Wade,
> I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from Zenith.
>I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new. First
>the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net members, I
>raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then the
>canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open it
>turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to
>eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I have
>enclosed a picture of. I would advise anyone building this aircraft to do
>the same. This is the system being used on all KR aircraft and I know from
>experence, it works fine and if you are scratch building it's a lot cheaper.
>
>Tracy Stone
>Harker Heights, Tx
>ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy latching system |
Thanks Tracy ,I will consider the change .However I think the rotary
latch supplied by ZAC looks much nicer . DO NOT ARCHIVE
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: robert stone
To: Zenith list
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 4:54 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system
Wade,
I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from
Zenith.
I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new.
First
the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net
members, I
raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then
the
canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open
it
turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to
eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I
have
enclosed a picture of. I would advise anyone building this aircraft
to do
the same. This is the system being used on all KR aircraft and I know
from
experence, it works fine and if you are scratch building it's a lot
cheaper.
Tracy Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
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| Subject: | CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! |
Brett,
That terrific news, Congrats!
I can't wait for my day.
Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brett Hanley
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 8:54 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!!
N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith list
was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty uneventful minutes.
Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225. I am very pleased
with those temps. We still need to tune the radiator intake and exhaust
plenum sizes to optimize cooling. The plenum design in rear fuselage will
work just fine.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
Gig,
I met Jerry Nichols of Jerrich Aircraft at the SWRFI in Hondo about a month
ago. He is a fairly new rep for Zenith and is located in Arlington near
Dallas/Fort Worth, TX.
I asked him about training and he said that he is almost ready to begin
training folks. He had an XL at the show, but I am not sure if it was the
one he is talking about training in.
See www.JerrichAircraft.com for info or give him a call at 866-216-6599.
He is a real nice fellow that said he can order parts, sub kits or complete
kits from Zenith for us. He also had a full kit on hand that he was willing
to discount somewhat a few weeks ago.
This is not paid advertising and I make no promises, just passing on some
info.
Happy Flying and stay dry (good luck),
Matt
XLVair
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 dual time
Where did you find an XL in Dallas for training? Do you have a phone number?
mrcc1234(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
>
> Well I have not found an XL closer than Dallas
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121768#121768
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Well,
I guess all the research in the world is just going to leave to one conclusion,
and that is that I think I will go ahead with 701. From a stand point of Financing
it I guess it would be easier to go with the 701. So that is my story and
I am sticking to it. Anyways, I just want to compliment the people who made
the rudder DVD. It was funny educational and I can't wait to order in the series.
I was wondering has any 701's put a BRS on their flying machine?
Ben
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
its true that if you do not peg the speed to 60 knts on the nose, it will float,
just like a cub floats if you don't peg 55mph.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net>
>Sent: Jul 1, 2007 3:46 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time
>
>
>Bryan-
> I'm sorry I already killed this post with "Do not archive". This is the
>type of information vital to builders getting ready to fly. Very good
>description of control inputs.
> Three interesting things-
> 1. "Cessnas require less control force in the roll axis." I always
>thought rolling a Cessna was like pushing a concrete block through Jello.
>Very mushy.
> 2. The Zenith is very sensitive in the pitch axis. This has been cited
>numerous times by other builders. PIO is a distinct possibility and new
>pilots should be on the lookout for this. I know this is my biggest concern.
> 3. "The Zenith has little tendency to float". This statement surprises
>me. I would suspect otherwise, but am glad to hear of it.
> Matt, maybe you could archive this one?
>Bill Naumuk
>HDS Fuse/Corvair
>Townville, Pa
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bryan Martin" <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 1:27 PM
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time
>
>
>>
>> There are some differences in flight characteristics between the Cessnas
>> and the Zodiac. The Cessnas are more stable in roll and tend to have a
>> lower rate of roll even though they require a little less control force in
>> the roll axis. My Zodiac has a pretty good roll rate and tends to stay at
>> whatever roll attitude you put it in. My zodiac is also more sensitive in
>> the pitch axis, especially when at aft CG limit.
>>
>> Unlike a Cessna, my Zodiac will not lift off on its own, I have to apply
>> some back pressure to rotate and lift off. The touchdown is a bit
>> different also. Even if I come in a bit too fast, my Zodiac has very
>> little tendency to "float", and as soon as the mains touch the ground, the
>> plane is done flying and will stick right to the runway. I can't remember
>> ever bouncing it and I've made a few pretty firm landings with it. I think
>> the Zodiac is easier to land in a crosswind than the Cessnas I used to
>> fly. Overall, I didn't encounter any really surprising or scary flight
>> characteristics with the Zodiac.
>>
>> I had about 300 total hours of flight time when I started flying my
>> Zodiac. Most of that was in Cessna 150/152 and 172s. I only had about 3
>> hours in low wing aircraft. I also had a few recent hours in a Cutlass RG
>> and, several years ago, a few hours in a Cardinal RG. I remember with the
>> Cardinal that it wasn't hard to get into a pitch oscillation mode on short
>> final.
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy latching system |
I will use hard wood blocks (Oak) to mount the latches onto on the inside.
One on each side. Both the uper and lower surface must be the same so that
the entire lach will fit right. When I get mine done, I will post a picture
so you can see how it's done.
Tracy Stone
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 5:34 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system
>
> Tracy,
>
> I know that the ZAC latching system is somewhat "mickey mouse," but, for
> the life of me, I don't see how your pictured latches would work. If they
> are mounted outside, how do you latch them from inside (and visa versa)?
> Maybe I'm missing something. How do the KR guys work them?
>
> Jay in Dallas
> Do not archive
>
>
> "robert stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Wade,
>> I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from
>> Zenith.
>>I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new.
>>First
>>the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net members,
>>I
>>raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then the
>>canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open it
>>turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to
>>eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I
>>have
>>enclosed a picture of. I would advise anyone building this aircraft to do
>>the same. This is the system being used on all KR aircraft and I know
>>from
>>experence, it works fine and if you are scratch building it's a lot
>>cheaper.
>>
>>Tracy Stone
>>Harker Heights, Tx
>>ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
>>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: CH 701/Subaru first flight |
Congrats Brett, glad to hear everything went smoothly. Happy flying.
do not archive
AJ
701 Rudder In-work
Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com> wrote:
N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith
list was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty uneventful minutes.
Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225. I am very pleased
with those temps. We still need to tune the radiator intake and exhaust plenum
sizes to optimize cooling. The plenum design in rear fuselage will work just
fine.
STOL 701
Subaru EA-81
RFI plans built redrive
Andres exhaust
Stratus intake and electrical
Gotta Fly,
Brett
Message 38
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Hello group ,a couple of days ago I posted a message where UPS charged
$9.12 shipping on a small order .Today I took the small order to my
local post office .They weigh it and said their shipping cost would be
less than $2.50 .AS said we had the option of using UPS or postal
delivery so in the future if possible I will use the postal service .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! |
A very big congrats from one Bravo Hotel to another.....
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com> wrote:
N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith li
st was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty uneventful m
inutes. Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225. I am ver
y pleased with those temps. We still need to tune the radiator intake a
nd exhaust plenum sizes to optimize cooling. The plenum design in rear
fuselage will work just fine. STOL 701 Subaru EA-81RFI plans built red
riveAndres exhaustStratus intake and electrical
========================
========================
========================
========================
=====
<html><P><BR>A very big congrats from one Bravo Hotel to another.....</P
>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair.com
<BR><BR>-- Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com> w
rote:<BR></P>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t
imes, serif">
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t
imes, serif">N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Boldin
g of the Zenith list was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for ab
out twenty uneventful minutes. Oil temps stayed below 200 and
the coolant below 225. I am very pleased with those temps.
We still need to tune the radiator intake and exhaust plenum sizes to op
timize cooling. The plenum design in rear fuselage will work just
fine. </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t
imes, serif"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t
imes, serif">STOL 701 </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t
imes, serif">
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t
imes, serif">Subaru EA-81</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t
imes, serif">RFI plans built redrive</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t
imes, serif">Andres exhaust</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t
imes, serif">Stratus intake and electrical<BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t
imes, serif"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t
imes, serif">Gotta Fly,</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t
imes, serif">Brett</DIV></DIV></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,co
urier" color=#000000 size=2>
========================
===========
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List</A>
========================
===========
tronics.com</A>
========================
===========
</B></FONT></PRE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Canopy latching system |
My Zenith supplied latches work just fine. 130 hours so far. I guess we a
ll have different experiences.
If you use the latches shown in the pictures, it may be hard for someone on
the outside of the plane to open the latch and get you out if they need to
.Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
From: rstone4@hot.rr.comTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Zenith-List:
Canopy latching systemDate: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:54:32 -0500
Wade, I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from Z
enith. I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new.
First the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net me
mbers, I raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it.
Then the canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to o
pen it turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan
to eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I h
ave enclosed a picture of.
<<SNIP>>
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: CH-801 Plans |
No, they are not available.
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 7/2/2007 4:43:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
kb2qqm@mac.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kb2qqm" <kb2qqm@mac.com>
Are plans available from Zenith to scratch build the 801?
I like the 701, but the 801 would suit my needs better.
Greg.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121848#121848
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: CH-801 Plans |
It is my understanding that Zenith will not make plans available for the 801 because
of all of the "knock-offs" that resulted from 701 plans availability.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: CH-801 Plans |
bummer. Why is it always a couple of people that ruin it for everyone with the
knockoffs.
I guess I will have to save or find another airplane.
Thanks to those that responded.
To the Mr. Spudis...do you know a Frankie Spudis, from L.I. N.Y. ?
Greg Heath
Racine,WI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121912#121912
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: CH-801 Plans |
Greg,
I used to live in L.I., I have two brothers that live there, but no Frankie.
Bob Spudis
Do not archive
In a message dated 7/2/2007 10:39:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
kb2qqm@mac.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kb2qqm" <kb2qqm@mac.com>
bummer. Why is it always a couple of people that ruin it for everyone with
the knockoffs.
I guess I will have to save or find another airplane.
Thanks to those that responded.
To the Mr. Spudis...do you know a Frankie Spudis, from L.I. N.Y. ?
Greg Heath
Racine,WI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121912#121912
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: CH-801 Plans |
I wish it were only a couple, I know of over 30 701 knock offs. # of
which are in direct competition with the origional. Plus I am aware of
12 knock offs of the 601. SO though it was always Chris's intent to make
his planes available for anyone to build, people have taken advantage of
his generosity. I doubt we will see many of his new designs in the
future be available as a plans build. At least not until they come out
with a model replacement.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kb2qqm
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 10:37 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH-801 Plans
bummer. Why is it always a couple of people that ruin it for everyone
with the knockoffs.
I guess I will have to save or find another airplane.
Thanks to those that responded.
To the Mr. Spudis...do you know a Frankie Spudis, from L.I. N.Y. ?
Greg Heath
Racine,WI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121912#121912
12:19 PM
12:19 PM
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
What colour Scotch Brite... Only kidding.... Let's not go there!
I read one post that said the builder alumipreped and then alodyned the
parts. I think that alumiprep with a water brake test is more than enough.
When you rinse the part if the water doesn't sheet off evenly then back to
scrubbing with the alumiprep, rinsing etc. etc..
Noel
> Time: 04:35:01 PM PST US
> From: "Dino Bortolin" <dbortol@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
>
> I'm no expert on this, but it sounds like a surface
> preparation problem to
> me. I just zinc chromated the inside of my rudder trim tab
> yesterday. I
> scuffed the surface with a Scotchbrite pad, washed it with
> warm water and
> lemon-scented dish soap, and rinsed it with hot water. Didn't use any
> solvents. Let it air dry and brushed the chromate on with a disposable
> sponge brush. Then attempted to mow the lawn (realized I
> didn't have gas,
> didn't feel like going out to buy any!) and came back 30
> minutes later. At
> that point it was dry enough that I was able to clamp the
> piece in my brake
> and form the trim tab without any coming off the surface.
>
> Dino Bortolin
> 601XL plans/Corvair
>
> On 7/1/07, Arthur Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> > Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with
> PTI Zinc Oxide
> > and I've experienced poor adhesion results. I need some
> advise on where to
> > go from here.
> > The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the
> type that comes
> > out of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the
> reducer proportions
> > as advised by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg
> with 72% humidity.
> > The primer is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did
> but the fully
> > cured in 30 minutes hasn't quite happened yet. I've
> allowed it to cure
> > overnight and the surface can be chipped down to the
> chem-film with a
> > fingernail. Any ideas what may have caused this and what I
> should do now?
> >
> > AJ
Message 47
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy latching system |
The canopy is only 1/8th inch thick and would be very easy to break in
an emergency.
Tracy Stone
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Maxson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 8:14 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system
My Zenith supplied latches work just fine. 130 hours so far. I guess
we all have different experiences.
If you use the latches shown in the pictures, it may be hard for
someone on the outside of the plane to open the latch and get you out if
they need to.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: rstone4@hot.rr.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:54:32 -0500
Wade,
I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from
Zenith.
I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new.
First
the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net
members, I
raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it.
Then the
canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to
open it
turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan
to
eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box
I have
enclosed a picture of.
<<SNIP>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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it out!
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Re: Shipping prices |
I do not know if the $9.12 charged by UPS includes insurance but I do
know that you can ship parcel post using USPS and the postage and
insurance will not ad up to what UPS will charge to ship.
Tracy Stone
----- Original Message -----
From: wade jones
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 8:02 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Shipping prices
Hello group ,a couple of days ago I posted a message where UPS charged
$9.12 shipping on a small order .Today I took the small order to my
local post office .They weigh it and said their shipping cost would be
less than $2.50 .AS said we had the option of using UPS or postal
delivery so in the future if possible I will use the postal service .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
Rob,
I've placed a 1000W heat lamp (not facing any parts) with a circulating fan in
the shop and have seen a substantial difference in the feel of the primer, at
93 deg and 53% humidity it is definitely curing now.
do not archive
Art
Robert Hansen <stol701@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thank You AJ,
My shop is nothing more then a metal building w/ a dirt floor. I posted my reply
on the primer before waiting a couple days to see how it set up. I will be
back at the "airplane factory" tonight, so I will see how it is doing.
Rob
----- Original Message ----
From: Arthur Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 5:40:53 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
Rob,
I like your nifty plans storage desk on your site, not to mention your actual
dedicated shop.
do not archive
AJ
Robert Hansen <stol701@yahoo.com> wrote:
I just zinc chromated the skelaton from my 701 rudder and I live in the very
dry Southern New Mexico. We do not measure humidity because we have none (joke).
I too can scratch off the primer with my finger nail. Prior to spraying
I cleaned up the metal with laquer thinner.
see at: http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/
Rob Hansen
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 10:08:52 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
72% humidity might have something to do with it. Try a dehumidifier in your
shop.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Arthur Olechowski
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
Hi All,
Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc Oxide and I've
experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on where to go from
here.
The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that comes out
of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer proportions as advised
by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg with 72% humidity. The primer
is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes
hasn't quite happened yet. I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface
can be chipped down to the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what
may have caused this and what I should do now?
AJ
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Primer adhesion |
Noel,
Well the wife picked up these multipurpose scotchbrite pads in bulk at Sam's
there kind of nice cause they have a sponge on the opposing side too wipe the
oxidation off with......just kidding. They were the real deal and water beading
was non-existent when rinsing.
I believe the culprit is myself. Lack of spraying technique which resulted in
a thicker than necessary coating in high humid conditions. The worst that can
happen now is my CG shifts a tenth of an inch aft.
Art
Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
What colour Scotch Brite... Only kidding.... Let's not go there!
I read one post that said the builder alumipreped and then alodyned the
parts. I think that alumiprep with a water brake test is more than enough.
When you rinse the part if the water doesn't sheet off evenly then back to
scrubbing with the alumiprep, rinsing etc. etc..
Noel
> Time: 04:35:01 PM PST US
> From: "Dino Bortolin"
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion
>
> I'm no expert on this, but it sounds like a surface
> preparation problem to
> me. I just zinc chromated the inside of my rudder trim tab
> yesterday. I
> scuffed the surface with a Scotchbrite pad, washed it with
> warm water and
> lemon-scented dish soap, and rinsed it with hot water. Didn't use any
> solvents. Let it air dry and brushed the chromate on with a disposable
> sponge brush. Then attempted to mow the lawn (realized I
> didn't have gas,
> didn't feel like going out to buy any!) and came back 30
> minutes later. At
> that point it was dry enough that I was able to clamp the
> piece in my brake
> and form the trim tab without any coming off the surface.
>
> Dino Bortolin
> 601XL plans/Corvair
>
> On 7/1/07, Arthur Olechowski wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> > Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with
> PTI Zinc Oxide
> > and I've experienced poor adhesion results. I need some
> advise on where to
> > go from here.
> > The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the
> type that comes
> > out of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the
> reducer proportions
> > as advised by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg
> with 72% humidity.
> > The primer is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did
> but the fully
> > cured in 30 minutes hasn't quite happened yet. I've
> allowed it to cure
> > overnight and the surface can be chipped down to the
> chem-film with a
> > fingernail. Any ideas what may have caused this and what I
> should do now?
> >
> > AJ
Message 51
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy latching system |
I like your idea of separate latches, however I think I can expand on
it.
----- Original Message -----
From: robert stone
To: Zenith list
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:54 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system
Wade,
I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from
Zenith.
I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new.
First
the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net
members, I
raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then
the
canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open
it
turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to
eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I
have
enclosed a picture of. I would advise anyone building this aircraft
to do
the same. This is the system being used on all KR aircraft and I know
from
experence, it works fine and if you are scratch building it's a lot
cheaper.
Tracy Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601 dual time |
There is an exemption available to allow a homebuilt to be rented for
the purpose giving someone who has built a similar homebuilt to get
transition training. I'm not sure how you'd go about getting the
exemption though.
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> My understanding is that an experimental aircraft cannot be used for
> training unless the owner is either the instructor or student. However,
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
Message 53
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy latching system |
I haven't had any trouble with mine in 200 hours other than having one
side come open in flight a couple of times due to not ensuring that it
was fully latched. One good thing about the supplied latching system is
that in case of an emergency, the canopy can be easily opened from the
outside by rescue personnel. I have seen homebuilts with canopy latching
systems that do not allow it to be opened from the outside. The only way
to get an unconscious pilot out in an emergency would be to break open
the canopy.
robert stone wrote:
> Wade,
> I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from
> Zenith.
> I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new. First
> the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net members, I
> raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then the
> canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open it
> turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to
> eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I have
> enclosed a picture of. I would advise anyone building this aircraft to do
> the same. This is the system being used on all KR aircraft and I know from
> experence, it works fine and if you are scratch building it's a lot cheaper.
> Tracy Stone
> Harker Heights, Tx
> ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
Message 54
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|
| Subject: | Re: Shipping prices |
For light weight items, First Class Mail or Priority Mail will probably
cost less than UPS Ground and be quicker also. For heavier items, Parcel
Post will cost less than UPS but delivery may take a bit longer. For
still heavier items, UPS may actually cost less than Parcel Post and get
there quicker, depending on the distance.
UPS automatically includes $100 worth of insurance. If additional
insurance is required, UPS charges less than the Postal Service for each
additional unit of $100. (At least that was true the last time I checked.)
In short, sometimes it's better to ship by UPS and sometimes it's better
to ship by USPS. The heavier the item is the more likely UPS will be the
better deal, at least for domestic shipping.
wade jones wrote:
> Hello group ,a couple of days ago I posted a message where UPS charged
> $9.12 shipping on a small order .Today I took the small order to my
> local post office .They weigh it and said their shipping cost would be
> less than $2.50 .AS said we had the option of using UPS or postal
> delivery so in the future if possible I will use the postal service .
> Wade Jones South Texas
> 601XL plans building
> Cont. 0200
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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