---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/02/07: 54 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:10 AM - Re: Primer adhesion (Robert Hansen) 2. 04:30 AM - 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin (Geoff Heap) 3. 05:43 AM - Re: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin (Dave Austin) 4. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Baggage shelf mod. (Juan Vega) 5. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Baggage shelf mod. (Juan Vega) 6. 06:02 AM - 601 dual time (Frank Derfler) 7. 06:15 AM - Re: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin (Geoff Heap) 8. 06:47 AM - Re: Baggage shelf mod. (alex_01) 9. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: Baggage shelf mod. (Robin Bellach) 10. 06:56 AM - CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! (Brett Hanley) 11. 07:08 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Bill Naumuk) 12. 07:27 AM - Re: 601 dual time (R.P.) 13. 07:34 AM - Re: Primer adhesion (Bill Naumuk) 14. 07:37 AM - Re: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! (Roger Venables) 15. 07:54 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Gig Giacona) 16. 07:55 AM - Re: 601 dual time (R.P.) 17. 08:06 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Bryan Martin) 18. 08:27 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Gig Giacona) 19. 08:31 AM - Re: 601 dual time (rickpitcher) 20. 08:33 AM - Re: 601 dual time (rickpitcher) 21. 08:34 AM - Re: 601 dual time (rickpitcher) 22. 09:21 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Tim Juhl) 23. 10:39 AM - Re: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! (LarryMcFarland) 24. 11:11 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Paul Mulwitz) 25. 12:07 PM - Re: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin (NYTerminat@aol.com) 26. 12:09 PM - CH 701/Subaru first flight (Brett Hanley) 27. 12:39 PM - Re: 601 dual time (Juan Vega) 28. 01:42 PM - CH-801 Plans (kb2qqm) 29. 02:56 PM - Canopy latching system (robert stone) 30. 03:35 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (Jaybannist@cs.com) 31. 03:35 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (wade jones) 32. 04:10 PM - Re: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! (Matt Stecher) 33. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: 601 dual time (Matt Stecher) 34. 04:19 PM - 701 (Ben Ramler) 35. 04:28 PM - Re: 601 dual time (Juan Vega) 36. 05:04 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (robert stone) 37. 06:02 PM - Re: CH 701/Subaru first flight (Arthur Olechowski) 38. 06:04 PM - Shipping prices (wade jones) 39. 06:04 PM - Re: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! (n801bh@netzero.com) 40. 06:15 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (Phil Maxson) 41. 06:36 PM - Re: CH-801 Plans (NYTerminat@aol.com) 42. 07:02 PM - Re: CH-801 Plans (Jaybannist@cs.com) 43. 07:38 PM - Re: CH-801 Plans (kb2qqm) 44. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: CH-801 Plans (NYTerminat@aol.com) 45. 08:13 PM - Re: Re: CH-801 Plans (ZodieRocket) 46. 08:28 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Noel Loveys) 47. 08:32 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (robert stone) 48. 08:36 PM - Re: Shipping prices (robert stone) 49. 08:45 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Arthur Olechowski) 50. 09:02 PM - Re: Primer adhesion (Arthur Olechowski) 51. 09:24 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (Steve Shuck) 52. 09:39 PM - Re: 601 dual time (Bryan Martin) 53. 09:46 PM - Re: Canopy latching system (Bryan Martin) 54. 10:15 PM - Re: Shipping prices (Bryan Martin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:21 AM PST US From: Robert Hansen Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion Thank You AJ, My shop is nothing more then a metal building w/ a dirt floor. I posted my reply on the primer before waiting a couple days to see how it set up. I will be back at the "airplane factory" tonight, so I will see how it is doing. Rob ----- Original Message ---- From: Arthur Olechowski Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 5:40:53 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion Rob, I like your nifty plans storage desk on your site, not to mention your actual dedicated shop. do not archive AJ Robert Hansen wrote: I just zinc chromated the skelaton from my 701 rudder and I live in the very dry Southern New Mexico. We do not measure humidity because we have none (joke). I too can scratch off the primer with my finger nail. Prior to spraying I cleaned up the metal with laquer thinner. see at: http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/ Rob Hansen ----- Original Message ---- From: Bill Naumuk Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 10:08:52 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion 72% humidity might have something to do with it. Try a dehumidifier in your shop. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Olechowski Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:58 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion Hi All, Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc Oxide and I've experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on where to go from here. The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that comes out of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer proportions as advised by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg with 72% humidity. The primer is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes hasn't quite happened yet. I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface can be chipped down to the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what may have caused this and what I should do now? AJ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin From: "Geoff Heap" Hi Guys 701 photo guide calls for the cowling to be mounted INSIDE the fwd fuse skins where they overlap just past the firewall but I see a number of photos showing builders have mounted it on the outside. Any comments appreciated. ,,,,Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121733#121733 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:23 AM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin Geoff, The pressure inside the cowl seals the cowl to the skins if you put the cowl inside. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:40 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Baggage shelf mod. Alex, what is alcantara? paint or rug? never heard of it. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: alex_01 >Sent: Jul 1, 2007 2:41 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Baggage shelf mod. > > >it is alcantara very very light and looks super also good to keep clean > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121596#121596 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:43 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Baggage shelf mod. Alex, what is alcantara? paint or rug? never heard of it. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: alex_01 >Sent: Jul 1, 2007 2:41 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Baggage shelf mod. > > >it is alcantara very very light and looks super also good to keep clean > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121596#121596 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:02 AM PST US From: "Frank Derfler" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 dual time Observation: Every time I put a certificated pilot ... particularly a Cessna driver... into the other seat of my 601 and let them take off, I make a little box around the stick with my hands. I'm not guarding the roll axis, but I sure do limit their ability to overcontrol in pitch. Cessna drivers usually bang into my thumbs on the climb. Observation: I owned a Grumman Cheetah before the 601. The Cheetah was an excellent transition to the 601. (Although the Cheetah is quieter and, because it is heavier, not quite so likely to "lift a wing" in a gust) Observation: A light sport aircraft is, by definition, lighter! That means that you notice the wind more. In my 601 the roll sensitivity is altered by wind more than any other aircraft I've flown and it is more difficult than other aircraft to keep on a precise course if you are trying to track within a few degrees of the wind. In other words, the tail keeps trying to line up with the wind and you feel every gust. (Yes, that's true of every airplane, in my experience, but you feel it more in the 601because it's a lighter plane.) Story: Last Saturday morning I was trying to fly due North out of Marathon. The wind was from about 005-010 and variable. Well, I could hold about every heading but due North. It seemed like every correction to get back on due north was either too much or not enough. Left of the wind was one flight configuration and right of the wind was a whole different configuration. In my personal opinion, the logic behind the less stick time criteria for the light sport license is hooie. Sometimes / often you have to have more pilotage skill to do things right in a lighter airplane. Conclusion: A lot of the difference between the flight characteristics of the 601 and other aircraft comes from the weight. And, I think the insurance companies have it right: the best transition into a 601 is from a 601. --Frank Derfler -- See My Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com - Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM -Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com -For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:41 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin From: "Geoff Heap" Dave This sounds like a good thing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121745#121745 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Baggage shelf mod. From: "alex_01" my interia and all seats are done in it you can get it with your local trim guy not very expensive at all and looks like suede but easier to clean and very comfortable to seat on it Alcantara (material) >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search AlcantaraAlcantara is the name given to a composite material used to cover surfaces and forms in a variety of situations and applications. The material was developed in the 1970s by Miyoshi Okamoto, a scientist working for the Japanese chemical company Toray [1]. In 1972, a joint venture between Italian chemical company ENI and Toray formed Alcantara SpA in order to manufacture and distribute the material [2]. Alcantara is created via the combination of an advanced spinning process (producing very low denier bi-component "islands in the sea" fibre) and chemical and textile production processes (needle punching, buffing, impregnation, extraction, finishing, dyeing, etc.) which interact with each other. [edit] Current Applications A versatile material, Alcantara is found in a variety of settings. The company outlines applications including furniture, clothing, jewelery, automotive, helmets and more. The appearance and tactile feel of the material is similar to that of suede, and it may be incorrectly identified as such on occasion. Alcantara can be found in high-end cars produced by such brands as Audi, BMW, Ferrari, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, and Porsche. It is finding application in seating as well as dash trimming due to its hard-wearing yet luxurious-looking properties Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121750#121750 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0110_254.jpg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:00 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Baggage shelf mod. >From what I've found so far, alcantara seems to be a form of artificial suede of sorts. Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 7:44 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Baggage shelf mod. > > Alex, > what is alcantara? paint or rug? never heard of it. > > Juan > > -----Original Message----- >>From: alex_01 >>Sent: Jul 1, 2007 2:41 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Baggage shelf mod. >> >> >>it is alcantara very very light and looks super also good to keep clean >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121596#121596 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:26 AM PST US From: Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith list was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty uneventful minutes. Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225. I am very pleased with those temps. We still need to tune the radiator intake and exhaust plenum sizes to optimize cooling. The plenum design in rear fuselage will work just fine. STOL 701 Subaru EA-81 RFI plans built redrive Andres exhaust Stratus intake and electrical Gotta Fly, Brett ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:02 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time Paul- Sounds like a real Catch-22 situation, especially the risk my CFI would be taking if there were no insurance coverage for at least liability and medical. Same for any soul brave enough to allow dual in his Zodiac. I believe there was a recent post that brought up that subject. You're probably not jumping to conclusions, I've got to take off the rose colored glasses and prepare for another bump in the road. Sounds like there are plenty of listers out there in the same boat. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 10:29 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time > > > Hi Bill, > > I guess I am jumping to conclusions on this subject. I don't think you > can do any dual instruction in your new plane until the phase 1 flight > testing is complete. Before that time only the necessary crew (i.e. the > PIC) is allowed to fly in the plane. > > If this is true then you can't do the transition in your own plane and > also do some of the flight testing. I also learned from the EAA insurance > outfit that they want 601 flight time for me (perhaps 5 hours?) before > they will cover me flying my own plane. That is funny since I have many > hours flying much more difficult planes than that. Still, I must travel > to California or elsewhere for a checkout in some Zodiac before I can be > covered flying in my plane. > > Good luck, > > Paul > XL fuselage > > At 10:01 AM 7/1/2007, you wrote: >> >>Paul- >> No, I don't expect him to fly off the time. I do intend to fly my own >> plane-don't have any choice. He can make sure the ship is airworthy >> before I take it up. Better than doing everything on my own, although >> there are tons of people that have. >> No one was available to give dual to the Wright brothers. More than >> that, I still can't concieve how their mechanic built an aircraft engine >> using only a drill press and a hacksaw!! >> Remember, this is EXPERIMENTAL aviation. >>Bill Naumuk >>HDS Fuse/Corvair >>Townville, Pa > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:49 AM PST US From: "R.P." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" > I also learned from the EAA insurance outfit that they want 601 flight > time for me (perhaps 5 hours?) before they will cover me flying my own > plane. That is funny since I have many hours flying much more difficult > planes than that. Still, I must travel to California or elsewhere for a > checkout in some Zodiac before I can be covered flying in my plane. > Give the insurance agent a call and ask if a "similar" aircraft would suffice. The agency that I use for insurance http://www.skysmith.com/ asked for recent hours in a 601 when I first asked about insurance. I told them that there were no 601's available for rent, but I *could* get a few hours in another low-wing fixed gear airpalne prior to my first flight in the Zodiac. They agreed to 2 hours in a Cherokee. No problem... those are available almost everywhere. I went up with the FBO's instructor for a couple of hours, got my BFR signed off, and satisfied the insurance company's request. Rick ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:41 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion All- We may be talking apples and oranges here, because I'm using Zinc Oxide rather than Chromate. This spring when we had high humidity from all the snow melting off it would take two days for parts to tack dry. It hasn't rained in a week and yesterday I shot a couple of parts and they were dry as a bone in an hour. Just an observation, not a hard and fast recommendation. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Hansen To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 6:09 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion Thank You AJ, My shop is nothing more then a metal building w/ a dirt floor. I posted my reply on the primer before waiting a couple days to see how it set up. I will be back at the "airplane factory" tonight, so I will see how it is doing. Rob ----- Original Message ---- From: Arthur Olechowski To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 5:40:53 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion Rob, I like your nifty plans storage desk on your site, not to mention your actual dedicated shop. do not archive AJ Robert Hansen wrote: I just zinc chromated the skelaton from my 701 rudder and I live in the very dry Southern New Mexico. We do not measure humidity because we have none (joke). I too can scratch off the primer with my finger nail. Prior to spraying I cleaned up the metal with laquer thinner. see at: http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/ Rob Hansen ----- Original Message ---- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 10:08:52 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion 72% humidity might have something to do with it. Try a dehumidifier in your shop. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Olechowski To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:58 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion Hi All, Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc Oxide and I've experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on where to go from here. The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that comes out of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer proportions as advised by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg with 72% humidity. The primer is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes hasn't quite happened yet. I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface can be chipped down to the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what may have caused this and what I should do now? AJ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:49 AM PST US From: "Roger Venables" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! Congratulations! Roger Venables CH 701 working on wiring From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Hanley Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 6:54 AM Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith list was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty uneventful minutes. Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225. I am very pleased with those temps. We still need to tune the radiator intake and exhaust plenum sizes to optimize cooling. The plenum design in rear fuselage will work just fine. STOL 701 Subaru EA-81 RFI plans built redrive Andres exhaust Stratus intake and electrical Gotta Fly, Brett ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:37 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 dual time From: "Gig Giacona" Where did you find an XL in Dallas for training? Do you have a phone number? mrcc1234(at)sbcglobal.net wrote: > > > Well I have not found an XL closer than Dallas > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121768#121768 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:06 AM PST US From: "R.P." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Derfler" > In my personal opinion, the logic behind the less stick > time criteria for the light sport license is hooie. Sometimes / often you > have to have more pilotage skill to do things right in a lighter airplane. > I think the logic is that there is a new *minimum*. Quite a few people have already got some stick time in "fat ultralights" or have been flying with other pilots for years. They will benefit from the minimum of 20 hours for Sport Pilot v/s 40 hours for Private pilot. And a few folks are just fast learners. Rick Rick ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:57 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time If you have a pilot certificate but just haven't flown much lately, the first thing you should do is find a CFI and get current again in ANY airplane. Get back in the air and get comfortable flying again. Then if you still have trouble finding a 601, see if you can get some time in a few different types. That will get you used to the idea that not all airplanes handle the same. I would recommend getting at least some stick time in a 601. Then you'll have to decide if you feel comfortable test flying your own 601. -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:34 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 dual time From: "Gig Giacona" Rick, I can't read a word you type on the forum. rickpitcher wrote: > --- -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121782#121782 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 dual time From: "rickpitcher" Give the insurance agent a call and ask if a "similar" aircraft would suffice. The agency that I use for insurance http://www.skysmith.com/ asked for recent hours in a 601 when I first asked about insurance. I told them that there were no 601's available for rent, but I *could* get a few hours in another low-wing fixed gear airpalne prior to my first flight in the Zodiac. They agreed to 2 hours in a Cherokee. No problem... those are available almost everywhere. I went up with the FBO's instructor for a couple of hours, got my BFR signed off, and satisfied the insurance company's request. Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121785#121785 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:35 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 dual time From: "rickpitcher" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Derfler" > In my personal opinion, the logic behind the less stick > time criteria for the light sport license is hooie. Sometimes / often you > have to have more pilotage skill to do things right in a lighter airplane. > I think the logic is that there is a new *minimum*. Quite a few people have already got some stick time in "fat ultralights" or have been flying with other pilots for years. They will benefit from the minimum of 20 hours for Sport Pilot v/s 40 hours for Private pilot. And a few folks are just fast learners. Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121786#121786 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:45 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 dual time From: "rickpitcher" Gig Giacona wrote: > Rick, I can't read a word you type on the forum. > > > rickpitcher wrote: > > --- > Thanks Gig. That seems to happen when I reply to Matronics' emails. I reposted from the web-based forum. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121787#121787 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 dual time From: "Tim Juhl" After reading all the good responses to this subject I feel the need to inject a few more comments. In preparing to test fly your own XL you need to consider a few factors. Frequency - Have you been flying enough to keep your skills up? I would especially practice takeoffs and landings and practice elevator control. Try making landings where you touch down on the mains and hold the nose off for awhile - use power to assure a smooth touchdown and the elevator to control the nose attitude.... this won't necessarily duplicate the feel of a Zodiac but it requires a little more skill to accomplish smoothly and should help prepare you for the Zodiac's reputed pitch sensitivity. Did I mention keep it going straight with no side load? Variety - do you always fly the same aircraft or make/model? Sometimes you get so used to one plane that even a slight change in flight characteristics can throw you. If you can get flight time in different aircraft you learn more how to control for desired result as compared to simply flying by rote. Obviously the stick control will be a little different so some time in a plane with a stick would be helpful. If you have a friend with a stick airplane go up and do some airwork (especially turns and slow flight) and just get the feel of it. Landings would be nice but not necessary to get the "feel." Instruction - having a CFI along can reduce the stress level and help maximize your training experience. If you can find a close match to a Zodiac then so much the better. I taught a guy to fly in a T-tailed Tomahawk and I have never known an airplane where it was so easy to drag the tail. The elevator was very powerful, even at low speeds. You had to set the landing attitude and use power to control the final descent to touchdown, much like a larger, heavier aircraft. The T-hawk is still in use by some flight schools and might be easier to find than a Zodiac...... The bottom line is that you should be willing to do what it takes to prepare to safely test fly your aircraft or find someone with more experience to do so. Don't let ego get in the way as the consequences are far too grave. Tim Do not archive -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121794#121794 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:58 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! Congratulations Brett, Post some pictures and more data when you can. I bet it climbs like a billy goat. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Brett Hanley wrote: > N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith > list was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty > uneventful minutes. Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below > 225. I am very pleased with those temps. We still need to tune the > radiator intake and exhaust plenum sizes to optimize cooling. The > plenum design in rear fuselage will work just fine. > > STOL 701 > Subaru EA-81 > RFI plans built redrive > Andres exhaust > Stratus intake and electrical > > Gotta Fly, > Brett ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:39 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time Hi Bill, My understanding is that an experimental aircraft cannot be used for training unless the owner is either the instructor or student. However, there are a few XLs in commercial service that can be used for dual instruction. I have heard of two in California and one in Arizona. There used to be one in Virginia, but that one is no longer available. More may become available in time for your transition training. The folks at AMD are selling them as fast as they can. I am not personally so concerned about insurance for flight testing, but my wife is. She strongly wants me to have liability coverage for any flights. Must be a gender thing . . . Paul XL fuselage (almost done) At 07:05 AM 7/2/2007, you wrote: >Paul- > Sounds like a real Catch-22 situation, especially the risk my > CFI would be taking if there were no insurance coverage for at > least liability and medical. Same for any soul brave enough to > allow dual in his Zodiac. I believe there was a recent post that > brought up that subject. > You're probably not jumping to conclusions, I've got to take off > the rose colored glasses and prepare for another bump in the road. > Sounds like there are plenty of listers out there in the same boat. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:52 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Cowling. Inside or outside the skin Geoff, I mounted mine outside, I have a Skyshops firewall forward package Bob Spudis In a message dated 7/2/2007 7:31:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, stol10@comcast.net writes: Guys 701 photo guide calls for the cowling to be mounted INSIDE the fwd fuse skins where they overlap just past the firewall but I see a number of photos showing builders have mounted it on the outside. Any comments appreciated. ,,,,Geoff ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:08 PM PST US From: Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith-List: CH 701/Subaru first flight N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith list was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty uneventful minutes. Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225. I am very pleased with those temps. We still need to tune the radiator intake and exhaust plenum sizes to optimize cooling. The plenum design in rear fuselage will work just fine. STOL 701 Subaru EA-81 RFI plans built redrive Andres exhaust Stratus intake and electrical Gotta Fly, Brett ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:50 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time all, a good trainer for the 601 is the Diamond Katana, same specs in performance r close. for exception of elevator pitch sensitivity. put 100 hours in the Katana, and flew the 601 no problem. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Frank Derfler >Sent: Jul 2, 2007 9:01 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: 601 dual time > >Observation: Every time I put a certificated pilot ... particularly a >Cessna driver... into the other seat of my 601 and let them take off, I >make a little box around the stick with my hands. I'm not guarding the roll >axis, but I sure do limit their ability to overcontrol in pitch. Cessna >drivers usually bang into my thumbs on the climb. > >Observation: I owned a Grumman Cheetah before the 601. The Cheetah was an >excellent transition to the 601. (Although the Cheetah is quieter and, >because it is heavier, not quite so likely to "lift a wing" in a gust) >Observation: A light sport aircraft is, by definition, lighter! That means >that you notice the wind more. In my 601 the roll sensitivity is altered by >wind more than any other aircraft I've flown and it is more difficult than >other aircraft to keep on a precise course if you are trying to track within >a few degrees of the wind. In other words, the tail keeps trying to line up >with the wind and you feel every gust. (Yes, that's true of every airplane, >in my experience, but you feel it more in the 601because it's a lighter >plane.) > >Story: Last Saturday morning I was trying to fly due North out of >Marathon. The wind was from about 005-010 and variable. Well, I could hold >about every heading but due North. It seemed like every correction to get >back on due north was either too much or not enough. Left of the wind was >one flight configuration and right of the wind was a whole different >configuration. In my personal opinion, the logic behind the less stick >time criteria for the light sport license is hooie. Sometimes / often you >have to have more pilotage skill to do things right in a lighter airplane. > >Conclusion: A lot of the difference between the flight characteristics of >the 601 and other aircraft comes from the weight. And, I think the >insurance companies have it right: the best transition into a 601 is from a >601. --Frank Derfler >-- See My Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) >illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com > >- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM > >-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at >www.KEYSBOATER.com > >-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:30 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: CH-801 Plans From: "kb2qqm" Are plans available from Zenith to scratch build the 801? I like the 701, but the 801 would suit my needs better. Greg. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121848#121848 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:56 PM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system Wade, I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from Zenith. I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new. First the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net members, I raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then the canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open it turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I have enclosed a picture of. I would advise anyone building this aircraft to do the same. This is the system being used on all KR aircraft and I know from experence, it works fine and if you are scratch building it's a lot cheaper. Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:03 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system Tracy, I know that the ZAC latching system is somewhat "mickey mouse," but, for the life of me, I don't see how your pictured latches would work. If they are mounted outside, how do you latch them from inside (and visa versa)? Maybe I'm missing something. How do the KR guys work them? Jay in Dallas Do not archive "robert stone" wrote: >Wade, > I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from Zenith. >I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new. First >the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net members, I >raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then the >canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open it >turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to >eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I have >enclosed a picture of. I would advise anyone building this aircraft to do >the same. This is the system being used on all KR aircraft and I know from >experence, it works fine and if you are scratch building it's a lot cheaper. > >Tracy Stone >Harker Heights, Tx >ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:04 PM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system Thanks Tracy ,I will consider the change .However I think the rotary latch supplied by ZAC looks much nicer . DO NOT ARCHIVE Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: robert stone To: Zenith list Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 4:54 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system Wade, I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from Zenith. I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new. First the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net members, I raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then the canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open it turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I have enclosed a picture of. I would advise anyone building this aircraft to do the same. This is the system being used on all KR aircraft and I know from experence, it works fine and if you are scratch building it's a lot cheaper. Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:24 PM PST US From: "Matt Stecher" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! Brett, That terrific news, Congrats! I can't wait for my day. Matt -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brett Hanley Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 8:54 AM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith list was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty uneventful minutes. Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225. I am very pleased with those temps. We still need to tune the radiator intake and exhaust plenum sizes to optimize cooling. The plenum design in rear fuselage will work just fine. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:06 PM PST US From: "Matt Stecher" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601 dual time Gig, I met Jerry Nichols of Jerrich Aircraft at the SWRFI in Hondo about a month ago. He is a fairly new rep for Zenith and is located in Arlington near Dallas/Fort Worth, TX. I asked him about training and he said that he is almost ready to begin training folks. He had an XL at the show, but I am not sure if it was the one he is talking about training in. See www.JerrichAircraft.com for info or give him a call at 866-216-6599. He is a real nice fellow that said he can order parts, sub kits or complete kits from Zenith for us. He also had a full kit on hand that he was willing to discount somewhat a few weeks ago. This is not paid advertising and I make no promises, just passing on some info. Happy Flying and stay dry (good luck), Matt XLVair -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gig Giacona Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 dual time Where did you find an XL in Dallas for training? Do you have a phone number? mrcc1234(at)sbcglobal.net wrote: > > > Well I have not found an XL closer than Dallas > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121768#121768 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:06 PM PST US From: Ben Ramler Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Well, I guess all the research in the world is just going to leave to one conclusion, and that is that I think I will go ahead with 701. From a stand point of Financing it I guess it would be easier to go with the 701. So that is my story and I am sticking to it. Anyways, I just want to compliment the people who made the rudder DVD. It was funny educational and I can't wait to order in the series. I was wondering has any 701's put a BRS on their flying machine? Ben Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:14 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time its true that if you do not peg the speed to 60 knts on the nose, it will float, just like a cub floats if you don't peg 55mph. -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Naumuk >Sent: Jul 1, 2007 3:46 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time > > >Bryan- > I'm sorry I already killed this post with "Do not archive". This is the >type of information vital to builders getting ready to fly. Very good >description of control inputs. > Three interesting things- > 1. "Cessnas require less control force in the roll axis." I always >thought rolling a Cessna was like pushing a concrete block through Jello. >Very mushy. > 2. The Zenith is very sensitive in the pitch axis. This has been cited >numerous times by other builders. PIO is a distinct possibility and new >pilots should be on the lookout for this. I know this is my biggest concern. > 3. "The Zenith has little tendency to float". This statement surprises >me. I would suspect otherwise, but am glad to hear of it. > Matt, maybe you could archive this one? >Bill Naumuk >HDS Fuse/Corvair >Townville, Pa >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bryan Martin" >To: >Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 1:27 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time > > >> >> There are some differences in flight characteristics between the Cessnas >> and the Zodiac. The Cessnas are more stable in roll and tend to have a >> lower rate of roll even though they require a little less control force in >> the roll axis. My Zodiac has a pretty good roll rate and tends to stay at >> whatever roll attitude you put it in. My zodiac is also more sensitive in >> the pitch axis, especially when at aft CG limit. >> >> Unlike a Cessna, my Zodiac will not lift off on its own, I have to apply >> some back pressure to rotate and lift off. The touchdown is a bit >> different also. Even if I come in a bit too fast, my Zodiac has very >> little tendency to "float", and as soon as the mains touch the ground, the >> plane is done flying and will stick right to the runway. I can't remember >> ever bouncing it and I've made a few pretty firm landings with it. I think >> the Zodiac is easier to land in a crosswind than the Cessnas I used to >> fly. Overall, I didn't encounter any really surprising or scary flight >> characteristics with the Zodiac. >> >> I had about 300 total hours of flight time when I started flying my >> Zodiac. Most of that was in Cessna 150/152 and 172s. I only had about 3 >> hours in low wing aircraft. I also had a few recent hours in a Cutlass RG >> and, several years ago, a few hours in a Cardinal RG. I remember with the >> Cardinal that it wasn't hard to get into a pitch oscillation mode on short >> final. > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:50 PM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system I will use hard wood blocks (Oak) to mount the latches onto on the inside. One on each side. Both the uper and lower surface must be the same so that the entire lach will fit right. When I get mine done, I will post a picture so you can see how it's done. Tracy Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 5:34 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system > > Tracy, > > I know that the ZAC latching system is somewhat "mickey mouse," but, for > the life of me, I don't see how your pictured latches would work. If they > are mounted outside, how do you latch them from inside (and visa versa)? > Maybe I'm missing something. How do the KR guys work them? > > Jay in Dallas > Do not archive > > > "robert stone" wrote: > >>Wade, >> I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from >> Zenith. >>I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new. >>First >>the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net members, >>I >>raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then the >>canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open it >>turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to >>eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I >>have >>enclosed a picture of. I would advise anyone building this aircraft to do >>the same. This is the system being used on all KR aircraft and I know >>from >>experence, it works fine and if you are scratch building it's a lot >>cheaper. >> >>Tracy Stone >>Harker Heights, Tx >>ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 >> > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:05 PM PST US From: Arthur Olechowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 701/Subaru first flight Congrats Brett, glad to hear everything went smoothly. Happy flying. do not archive AJ 701 Rudder In-work Brett Hanley wrote: N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith list was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty uneventful minutes. Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225. I am very pleased with those temps. We still need to tune the radiator intake and exhaust plenum sizes to optimize cooling. The plenum design in rear fuselage will work just fine. STOL 701 Subaru EA-81 RFI plans built redrive Andres exhaust Stratus intake and electrical Gotta Fly, Brett ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:09 PM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Zenith-List: Shipping prices Hello group ,a couple of days ago I posted a message where UPS charged $9.12 shipping on a small order .Today I took the small order to my local post office .They weigh it and said their shipping cost would be less than $2.50 .AS said we had the option of using UPS or postal delivery so in the future if possible I will use the postal service . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:12 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 STOL FIRST FLIGHT!! A very big congrats from one Bravo Hotel to another..... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Brett Hanley wrote: N858BH flew for the first time yesterday. John Bolding of the Zenith li st was the pilot. Circling in the pattern for about twenty uneventful m inutes. Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225. I am ver y pleased with those temps. We still need to tune the radiator intake a nd exhaust plenum sizes to optimize cooling. The plenum design in rear fuselage will work just fine. STOL 701 Subaru EA-81RFI plans built red riveAndres exhaustStratus intake and electrical ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== =====


A very big congrats from one Bravo Hotel to another.....

do not archive

Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com> w rote:

N858BH flew for the first time yesterday.  John Boldin g of the Zenith list was the pilot.  Circling in the pattern for ab out twenty uneventful minutes.  Oil temps stayed below 200 and the coolant below 225.  I am very pleased with those temps.  We still need to tune the radiator intake and exhaust plenum sizes to op timize cooling.  The plenum design in rear fuselage will work just fine. 
 
STOL 701  
Subaru EA-81
RFI plans built redrive
Andres exhaust
Stratus intake and electrical
 
Gotta Fly,
Brett


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">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
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tronics.com
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________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:26 PM PST US From: Phil Maxson Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system My Zenith supplied latches work just fine. 130 hours so far. I guess we a ll have different experiences. If you use the latches shown in the pictures, it may be hard for someone on the outside of the plane to open the latch and get you out if they need to .Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey From: rstone4@hot.rr.comTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Zenith-List: Canopy latching systemDate: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:54:32 -0500 Wade, I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from Z enith. I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new. First the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net me mbers, I raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then the canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to o pen it turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I h ave enclosed a picture of. <> _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live Hotmail, you can personalize your inbox with your favorit e color. www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/personalize.html?locale=en-us&ocid =TXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_addcolor_0607 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:42 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 Plans No, they are not available. Bob Spudis In a message dated 7/2/2007 4:43:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kb2qqm@mac.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kb2qqm" Are plans available from Zenith to scratch build the 801? I like the 701, but the 801 would suit my needs better. Greg. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121848#121848 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:17 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 Plans It is my understanding that Zenith will not make plans available for the 801 because of all of the "knock-offs" that resulted from 701 plans availability. Jay in Dallas Do not archive ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:37 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH-801 Plans From: "kb2qqm" bummer. Why is it always a couple of people that ruin it for everyone with the knockoffs. I guess I will have to save or find another airplane. Thanks to those that responded. To the Mr. Spudis...do you know a Frankie Spudis, from L.I. N.Y. ? Greg Heath Racine,WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121912#121912 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:43 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: CH-801 Plans Greg, I used to live in L.I., I have two brothers that live there, but no Frankie. Bob Spudis Do not archive In a message dated 7/2/2007 10:39:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kb2qqm@mac.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kb2qqm" bummer. Why is it always a couple of people that ruin it for everyone with the knockoffs. I guess I will have to save or find another airplane. Thanks to those that responded. To the Mr. Spudis...do you know a Frankie Spudis, from L.I. N.Y. ? Greg Heath Racine,WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121912#121912 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:11 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: CH-801 Plans I wish it were only a couple, I know of over 30 701 knock offs. # of which are in direct competition with the origional. Plus I am aware of 12 knock offs of the 601. SO though it was always Chris's intent to make his planes available for anyone to build, people have taken advantage of his generosity. I doubt we will see many of his new designs in the future be available as a plans build. At least not until they come out with a model replacement. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kb2qqm Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 10:37 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH-801 Plans bummer. Why is it always a couple of people that ruin it for everyone with the knockoffs. I guess I will have to save or find another airplane. Thanks to those that responded. To the Mr. Spudis...do you know a Frankie Spudis, from L.I. N.Y. ? Greg Heath Racine,WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121912#121912 12:19 PM 12:19 PM ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:47 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion What colour Scotch Brite... Only kidding.... Let's not go there! I read one post that said the builder alumipreped and then alodyned the parts. I think that alumiprep with a water brake test is more than enough. When you rinse the part if the water doesn't sheet off evenly then back to scrubbing with the alumiprep, rinsing etc. etc.. Noel > Time: 04:35:01 PM PST US > From: "Dino Bortolin" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion > > I'm no expert on this, but it sounds like a surface > preparation problem to > me. I just zinc chromated the inside of my rudder trim tab > yesterday. I > scuffed the surface with a Scotchbrite pad, washed it with > warm water and > lemon-scented dish soap, and rinsed it with hot water. Didn't use any > solvents. Let it air dry and brushed the chromate on with a disposable > sponge brush. Then attempted to mow the lawn (realized I > didn't have gas, > didn't feel like going out to buy any!) and came back 30 > minutes later. At > that point it was dry enough that I was able to clamp the > piece in my brake > and form the trim tab without any coming off the surface. > > Dino Bortolin > 601XL plans/Corvair > > On 7/1/07, Arthur Olechowski wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with > PTI Zinc Oxide > > and I've experienced poor adhesion results. I need some > advise on where to > > go from here. > > The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the > type that comes > > out of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the > reducer proportions > > as advised by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg > with 72% humidity. > > The primer is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did > but the fully > > cured in 30 minutes hasn't quite happened yet. I've > allowed it to cure > > overnight and the surface can be chipped down to the > chem-film with a > > fingernail. Any ideas what may have caused this and what I > should do now? > > > > AJ ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:36 PM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system The canopy is only 1/8th inch thick and would be very easy to break in an emergency. Tracy Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Maxson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 8:14 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system My Zenith supplied latches work just fine. 130 hours so far. I guess we all have different experiences. If you use the latches shown in the pictures, it may be hard for someone on the outside of the plane to open the latch and get you out if they need to. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: rstone4@hot.rr.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:54:32 -0500 Wade, I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from Zenith. I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new. First the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net members, I raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then the canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open it turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I have enclosed a picture of. <> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Change is good. See what's different about Windows Live Hotmail. Check it out! ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:01 PM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Shipping prices I do not know if the $9.12 charged by UPS includes insurance but I do know that you can ship parcel post using USPS and the postage and insurance will not ad up to what UPS will charge to ship. Tracy Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: wade jones To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 8:02 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Shipping prices Hello group ,a couple of days ago I posted a message where UPS charged $9.12 shipping on a small order .Today I took the small order to my local post office .They weigh it and said their shipping cost would be less than $2.50 .AS said we had the option of using UPS or postal delivery so in the future if possible I will use the postal service . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:19 PM PST US From: Arthur Olechowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion Rob, I've placed a 1000W heat lamp (not facing any parts) with a circulating fan in the shop and have seen a substantial difference in the feel of the primer, at 93 deg and 53% humidity it is definitely curing now. do not archive Art Robert Hansen wrote: Thank You AJ, My shop is nothing more then a metal building w/ a dirt floor. I posted my reply on the primer before waiting a couple days to see how it set up. I will be back at the "airplane factory" tonight, so I will see how it is doing. Rob ----- Original Message ---- From: Arthur Olechowski Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 5:40:53 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion Rob, I like your nifty plans storage desk on your site, not to mention your actual dedicated shop. do not archive AJ Robert Hansen wrote: I just zinc chromated the skelaton from my 701 rudder and I live in the very dry Southern New Mexico. We do not measure humidity because we have none (joke). I too can scratch off the primer with my finger nail. Prior to spraying I cleaned up the metal with laquer thinner. see at: http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/ Rob Hansen ----- Original Message ---- From: Bill Naumuk Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2007 10:08:52 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion 72% humidity might have something to do with it. Try a dehumidifier in your shop. do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Olechowski To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 11:58 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion Hi All, Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with PTI Zinc Oxide and I've experienced poor adhesion results. I need some advise on where to go from here. The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the type that comes out of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the reducer proportions as advised by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg with 72% humidity. The primer is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did but the fully cured in 30 minutes hasn't quite happened yet. I've allowed it to cure overnight and the surface can be chipped down to the chem-film with a fingernail. Any ideas what may have caused this and what I should do now? AJ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:13 PM PST US From: Arthur Olechowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion Noel, Well the wife picked up these multipurpose scotchbrite pads in bulk at Sam's there kind of nice cause they have a sponge on the opposing side too wipe the oxidation off with......just kidding. They were the real deal and water beading was non-existent when rinsing. I believe the culprit is myself. Lack of spraying technique which resulted in a thicker than necessary coating in high humid conditions. The worst that can happen now is my CG shifts a tenth of an inch aft. Art Noel Loveys wrote: What colour Scotch Brite... Only kidding.... Let's not go there! I read one post that said the builder alumipreped and then alodyned the parts. I think that alumiprep with a water brake test is more than enough. When you rinse the part if the water doesn't sheet off evenly then back to scrubbing with the alumiprep, rinsing etc. etc.. Noel > Time: 04:35:01 PM PST US > From: "Dino Bortolin" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer adhesion > > I'm no expert on this, but it sounds like a surface > preparation problem to > me. I just zinc chromated the inside of my rudder trim tab > yesterday. I > scuffed the surface with a Scotchbrite pad, washed it with > warm water and > lemon-scented dish soap, and rinsed it with hot water. Didn't use any > solvents. Let it air dry and brushed the chromate on with a disposable > sponge brush. Then attempted to mow the lawn (realized I > didn't have gas, > didn't feel like going out to buy any!) and came back 30 > minutes later. At > that point it was dry enough that I was able to clamp the > piece in my brake > and form the trim tab without any coming off the surface. > > Dino Bortolin > 601XL plans/Corvair > > On 7/1/07, Arthur Olechowski wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > Yesterday I finished priming my 701 rudder skeleton with > PTI Zinc Oxide > > and I've experienced poor adhesion results. I need some > advise on where to > > go from here. > > The only spray painting I've ever been exposed to is the > type that comes > > out of a spray can. I used an HVLP sprayer with the > reducer proportions > > as advised by PTI. The conditions in the shop was 70 deg > with 72% humidity. > > The primer is suppose dry tack free in 5 minutes and it did > but the fully > > cured in 30 minutes hasn't quite happened yet. I've > allowed it to cure > > overnight and the surface can be chipped down to the > chem-film with a > > fingernail. Any ideas what may have caused this and what I > should do now? > > > > AJ ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:05 PM PST US From: "Steve Shuck" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system I like your idea of separate latches, however I think I can expand on it. ----- Original Message ----- From: robert stone To: Zenith list Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:54 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system Wade, I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from Zenith. I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new. First the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net members, I raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then the canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open it turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I have enclosed a picture of. I would advise anyone building this aircraft to do the same. This is the system being used on all KR aircraft and I know from experence, it works fine and if you are scratch building it's a lot cheaper. Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:10 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time There is an exemption available to allow a homebuilt to be rented for the purpose giving someone who has built a similar homebuilt to get transition training. I'm not sure how you'd go about getting the exemption though. Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > > Hi Bill, > > My understanding is that an experimental aircraft cannot be used for > training unless the owner is either the instructor or student. However, -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:37 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy latching system I haven't had any trouble with mine in 200 hours other than having one side come open in flight a couple of times due to not ensuring that it was fully latched. One good thing about the supplied latching system is that in case of an emergency, the canopy can be easily opened from the outside by rescue personnel. I have seen homebuilts with canopy latching systems that do not allow it to be opened from the outside. The only way to get an unconscious pilot out in an emergency would be to break open the canopy. robert stone wrote: > Wade, > I would not advise any builder to use the latching system from > Zenith. > I have had nothing but trouble from mine since the airplane was new. First > the canopy would not latch so on the advice from some of the net members, I > raised the lower latch part by 1/8th inch using a shim under it. Then the > canopy would latch and now when it is latched and I am trying to open it > turning the knob on the left side of the canopy, it sticks. I plan to > eliminate the entire system and use latches like the ones on the box I have > enclosed a picture of. I would advise anyone building this aircraft to do > the same. This is the system being used on all KR aircraft and I know from > experence, it works fine and if you are scratch building it's a lot cheaper. > Tracy Stone > Harker Heights, Tx > ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:40 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Shipping prices For light weight items, First Class Mail or Priority Mail will probably cost less than UPS Ground and be quicker also. For heavier items, Parcel Post will cost less than UPS but delivery may take a bit longer. For still heavier items, UPS may actually cost less than Parcel Post and get there quicker, depending on the distance. UPS automatically includes $100 worth of insurance. If additional insurance is required, UPS charges less than the Postal Service for each additional unit of $100. (At least that was true the last time I checked.) In short, sometimes it's better to ship by UPS and sometimes it's better to ship by USPS. The heavier the item is the more likely UPS will be the better deal, at least for domestic shipping. wade jones wrote: > Hello group ,a couple of days ago I posted a message where UPS charged > $9.12 shipping on a small order .Today I took the small order to my > local post office .They weigh it and said their shipping cost would be > less than $2.50 .AS said we had the option of using UPS or postal > delivery so in the future if possible I will use the postal service . > Wade Jones South Texas > 601XL plans building > Cont. 0200 > > * > > > * -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.