---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/05/07: 43 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:36 AM - Re: a.k.a "Crash" (Jari Kaija (LapTop2)) 2. 07:25 AM - Re: A4 & A5 rivets - maximum thickness? (Bill Naumuk) 3. 07:51 AM - Fw: wing tanks (Carlos Sa) 4. 07:51 AM - 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage (squiggles) 5. 08:05 AM - Re: 601 dual time (japhillipsga@aol.com) 6. 08:10 AM - Re: Mounting horizontal stab and fairings (japhillipsga@aol.com) 7. 08:19 AM - Re: 601 dual time (Bill Steer) 8. 09:12 AM - Re: Fw: wing tanks (wscribb) 9. 09:39 AM - Re: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage (Jaybannist@cs.com) 10. 09:48 AM - Re: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage (ihab.awad@gmail.com) 11. 10:22 AM - Control cables (wade jones) 12. 10:29 AM - Re: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage (Jaybannist@cs.com) 13. 10:49 AM - Re: Control cables (Bill Steer) 14. 11:07 AM - Re: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage (ihab.awad@gmail.com) 15. 11:12 AM - Re: Control cables (Jaybannist@cs.com) 16. 11:28 AM - Re: Control cables (Jim Hoak) 17. 12:13 PM - Re: Control cables (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 18. 12:19 PM - Re: Control cables (wade jones) 19. 01:04 PM - Re: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage (David Downey) 20. 01:10 PM - Re: Control cables (NYTerminat@aol.com) 21. 01:17 PM - Re: Control cables (VideoFlyer@aol.com) 22. 03:04 PM - First flight, test pilot, dual time (Harrison-Hutcheson) 23. 03:08 PM - Place to stay for Oshkosh (Joe) 24. 03:10 PM - Re: Ham Radio (Christopher Galante) 25. 03:36 PM - Re: First flight, test pilot, dual time (LarryMcFarland) 26. 04:08 PM - Re: Place to stay for Oshkosh (Robert Hansen) 27. 04:45 PM - Re: First flight, test pilot, dual time (robert stone) 28. 05:08 PM - Re: Control cables (Juan Vega) 29. 05:21 PM - Re: Control cables (wade jones) 30. 05:21 PM - Re: Ham Radio (KC7HFA) 31. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Ham Radio (Bill Stuart) 32. 05:53 PM - Re: Ham Radio (rroberts) 33. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Ham Radio (Randy L. Thwing) 34. 06:16 PM - Re: Control cables (Herb Heaton) 35. 06:33 PM - Re: : Zip tie nipper (Dave Thompson) 36. 06:38 PM - Re: Control cables (leinad) 37. 06:38 PM - Re: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage (dj45) 38. 07:12 PM - Re: First flight, test pilot, dual time (NYTerminat@aol.com) 39. 07:12 PM - Re: Canopy Latch (leinad) 40. 07:26 PM - Re: Re: Control cables (wade jones) 41. 08:05 PM - Turnbuckles (George Swinford) 42. 08:28 PM - Ham Radio (John Collins) 43. 09:47 PM - Re: Control cables (Bryan Martin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:16 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija (LapTop2)" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: a.k.a "Crash" > That is wonderful that you wacked that metal can back to like new condition. > Rotax lost a sale of a new one! It was quite easy to repair with a round wood block and hammer. Took about 10 minutes... Thanks to you, Rotax won't get anything from me :-) > All of my human parts are mended, I'm happy to hear that! > the metal aircraft parts take a little longer to restore. Yep. But it's only metal and there is a many company who sells it. When I'm was in the flight school, I crashed C-172 totally in my first solo flight. Front wheel sinks to soft field and turned plane upside down while I was going to make second take off.... Plane was unrestorable but I get only a little nick to my elbow :-) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:26 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A4 & A5 rivets - maximum thickness? All- ACS (And I'm sure Wick's, too) provides a grip length calculator on their website. If the stock rivets aren't long enough, order a small quantity of the correct size and have them shipped USPS! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schoenberger" Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 9:38 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A4 & A5 rivets - maximum thickness? > > > Thanks Wade . . . my construction manual for the 701 is 7/01 and I don't > see the ranges below on that page under blind rivets. Thanks for the > information. It's just what I need. Robert > > wade jones wrote: >> >> Hi Robert ,page 9 of the construction manual shows the A4 to have a grip >> range of 0 to 1/4" and the A5 a grip range of 0 to 5/16" . >> Wade Jones South Texas >> 601XL plans building >> Cont. 0200 >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schoenberger" >> >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 4:19 PM >> Subject: Zenith-List: A4 & A5 rivets - maximum thickness? >> >> >>> >>> >>> List . . . I want to install a couple of "plates" to strengthen the >>> area of a misdrilled hole. What is the maximum material thickness >>> (original + strengthening plates) that can be riveted with the A4 and A5 >>> rivets as supplied with the kit? I couldn't find this in the >>> construction manual or the govt. publications for blind rivets. >>> thanks. Robert Schoenberger 701 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:15 AM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Zenith-List: Fwd: wing tanks Hellol, all I have received several requests for the ppt file. Since at least one of the requesters had a problem with his in-box, I uploaded the file to YouSendIt, where it'll stay for another 6 days or so. I do not know if there is a limit for the downloads, but I think not. http://download.yousendit.com/F952CFE30944F0BD Here are some tips: 0) I assume you have already built the parts - the tips below are for the pro-seal "ceremony" only. 0.1) the only tip here is: make the parts fit tightly, no gaps allowed!!! 1) plan each work session in detail 2) before going for the real thing, make a small batch of pro-seal and put two scrap parts together, just to get the hang of it - and to understand how much of the stuff you need to cover an area "about this size". 3) plan each work session in detail 4) prepare a bit more than just enough pro-seal for the work you are going to do in one session 5) have a bunch of paper towel cut in 6"x6" squares, wet in lacquer thinner, at the ready. 6) have additional paper towel cut, dry, ready for use in case you did not prepare enough wet ones. [(5) and (6) above will help avoid having to explain how pro-seal got on the toilet seat (no, it did not happen to me, but it does not take a lot of imagination to figure it could have happened).] 7) plan each work session in detail 8) keep the wet paper towels covered to minimize the fumes in the room (I used a biscuit tin) - although the most disagreeable smell comes from pro-seal ("fart in a can"), the strongest comes from lacquer thinner. 9) it follows that ventilation is very important!!! 10) did I mention planning yet? 11) use gloves all the time - people who worked with this before recommend vinyl gloves, as latex dissolves with lacquer thinner. Guess what, so does vinyl, just a bit more slowly. 12) wear clothes you can discard if "contaminated" 13) planning! 14) no interruptions during the work session!!! after you start, you are committed ! 15) break the work down in steps that you can perform in separate work sessions. For instance, I started riveting the fittings - they are small and take little time to do, so ideal for training. I then proceeded to the baffle: rear and bottom in one session. Then the sides, rear and bottom in one session. Then a big, long session to zip it up. 16) planning. Seriously. Every night, when I would go to bed, I would go through the steps of the next working session. I prevented a number of blunders this way. 17) every rivet is covered with pro-seal before being inserted on its "resting place" 18) a bit less hardener in the mix will allow you longer working time. But don't mess with it, or it will never cure... 19) they say "don't overdo with the pro-seal". Right, but more is better than less! ! ! ! I read in one of the web sites (or the RV list): the worst part is *before* you get started. After you get going, you'll see it's not that bad. BTW, planning helps a lot. ;-) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage From: "squiggles" Hello All... As I approach the end of building( though at this pace it will still be another 2 years before I fly ) I faced with a multitude of items which I bypassed at the time, but now must be addressed. During construction of the rear fuselage the L angles must be joggled and riveted to the skins and the extruded longerons. I didn't like the edge distances which came out from single rivets into the longerons. This was primarily the result of poor joggling. I will likely add 2 additional "squares" of L's in the rear fuselage. However, reviewing my building notes from that time I see it was hit or miss as to the quality of the joggle. What techniques, dies, etc. have you used which assure a quality joggle everytime? Worst case, I am just going to use an additional strip of aluminum the thickness of the longerons, placing it between the skin and the L. Thus, avoiding the joggle hassle all together. Any help is appreciated.... Thx... -Scott http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/pm.cgi?login=squiggles&action=display&private=& Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122362#122362 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time From: japhillipsga@aol.com Phil, come to Georgia and you can get some XL dual time in my plane. We'l ma ke a couple dozen landings and you'll be ready. Best regards, Bill of Georgi a -----Original Message----- From: 601corvair Sent: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:58 pm Subject: Zenith-List: 601 dual time I have run into a challenge that I assume happens to other first time builde rs who are low time pilots.=C2- I=99ve not flown much since 2002 and am very rusty.=C2- Most of my hobby resources have been put toward buildi ng.=C2- I have been trying to find away to get training in some HDS like m achine.=C2- People have recommended a Grumman Yankee and there are not ver y many (none for rent) near me.=C2- I am concerned that when I get ready t o fly the liability insurance companies may require some minimal=C2-=C2 - time in 601.=C2- Then I called Zenith to try and get a list of local f lying aircraft and have had some success at contacting people.=C2- But the issue is what to ask for.=C2- I doubt any sane person is going to let me fly their airplane solo. Then, after ready the July issue of Sport Aviation page 122 under building basics,=C2- I had an idea.=C2- The article is qu estions and answers, most surrounding sport pilot and who can log time,=C2 -=C2-=C2- There is a discussion of 14 CFR 61.5(e)(1), which state that =C2- if you are in an aircraft for which you are rated and the sole manipu lator of the control, you can log time (i.e., PIC time), even if you are not PIC for the flight.=C2- If I have this correct, then any homebuilder who has an aircraft and who can act as PIC ( i.e., current with landings, BFR, M edical if necessary) , can act as PIC ( and unofficial flight instructor) fo r any other pilot who is rated for that aircraft even if the other pilot has no Medical or BFR, so longs as=C2- the =9Cstudent Pilot=9D =C2- is the sole manipulator of the controls.=C2- Of courses the guy act ing as PIC has all the liability risks.=C2- I assume so long as this is no t being done for carriage the =9Cstudent=9D would be allow to co ver half the expenses of the flight.=C2- It would be an easy say that the student, (perhaps riding pilot would be a better term) provided the fuel and oil and the owner provided engine depreciation.=C2- Thus if I am reading the regs correctly, home-builders could help each other simply by sharing ri des.=C2-=C2- Both reduce their cost, make new friends and the less exper ienced guy is provided a way of getting, documenting experience in a very si milar aircraft, and the owner-builder of the aircraft being flown is always in the plane to lend a hand. =C2- I know I have a very selfish motives for this now as I would be the =9Cbeggar=9D pilot, but if we could do more of this kind of thing I be lieve we could reduce first flight accidents even more.. Plus I am betting f lying with fellow builders is a blast. =C2- phill Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Game s. -= - The Zenith-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List -======================== -= - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content now also available via the Web Forums! -= --> http://forums.matronics.com -======================== ________________________________________________________________________ AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mounting horizontal stab and fairings From: japhillipsga@aol.com Ed, I made some pieces that fit under the stablizer riveted to the fuselae sides. Problem was you need three per side to fit betwe.n the up right brackets that hold it on. Used beer box cardbroard (wonder where the beer went ?) to make each template, cut fron .20 and a few rivets. Makes it look a buch better. Don't have any photos, sorry. Best regrads, Bill -----Original Message----- From: Edward Moody II Sent: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 8:21 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Mounting horizontal stab and fairings Hi to all, ? ?? I'm having no luck finding useful photos of the fairing that closes up the gap under the horizontal stabilizer. If left to my own imagination, I'm sure I can come up with something but I'd appreciate the opportunity to see what some of you have done. If you have some useful photos and/or hints, please..... hook a brother up. ? Dred 601XL ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:59 AM PST US From: Bill Steer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 dual time I'm in the same situation. Where are you in GA? My daughter lives in Douglasville, just west of Atlanta. Thanks. Bill do not archive japhillipsga@aol.com wrote: > Phil, come to Georgia and you can get some XL dual time in my plane. > We'l make a couple dozen landings and you'll be ready. Best regards, > Bill of Georgia > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:55 AM PST US From: "wscribb" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fwd: wing tanks Thanks Carlos, A very complete presentation, really helps me understand the overall process. Bill Cribb Do not archive. _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Fwd: wing tanks Hellol, all I have received several requests for the ppt file. Since at least one of the requesters had a problem with his in-box, I uploaded the file to YouSendIt, where it'll stay for another 6 days or so. I do not know if there is a limit for the downloads, but I think not. http://download.yousendit.com/F952CFE30944F0BD ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:55 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage Scott, I made my joggling blocks from 1 1/2" x 2" hard yellow pine boards that were a part of the ZAC shipping crates. See attached photos. The offset is ~5/32" or 4mm by ~1". I placed the aluminum angle on the long block, end of angle flush with the end of the block. Align the top block with the joggle and give it a couple of sharp whacks with a mallet. Sometimes, I would clamp the vertical leg of the angle with another wood block to eliminate distortion of that leg. Questions? Jay in Dallas "squiggles" wrote: > >Hello All... > >As I approach the end of building( though at this pace it will still be another 2 years before I fly ) I faced with a multitude of items which I bypassed at the time, but now must be addressed. > >During construction of the rear fuselage the L angles must be joggled and riveted to the skins and the extruded longerons. I didn't like the edge distances which came out from single rivets into the longerons. This was primarily the result of poor joggling. I will likely add 2 additional "squares" of L's in the rear fuselage. However, reviewing my building notes from that time I see it was hit or miss as to the quality of the joggle. > >What techniques, dies, etc. have you used which assure a quality joggle everytime? > >Worst case, I am just going to use an additional strip of aluminum the thickness of the longerons, placing it between the skin and the L. Thus, avoiding the joggle hassle all together. > >Any help is appreciated.... > >Thx... >-Scott >http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/pm.cgi?login=squiggles&action=display&private=& > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122362#122362 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:59 AM PST US From: ihab.awad@gmail.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage Jay, On 7/5/07, Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > I made my joggling blocks from 1 1/2" x 2" hard yellow pine boards ... Very nifty. Do you have a picture of the finished, joggled parts? My own experience joggling with such a setup is that the joggle is nice and crisp near the "break" but, towards the end of the part, the metal progressively "relaxes" and "unjoggles". Ihab -- Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:57 AM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Zenith-List: Control cables Hello group , I am getting ready to construct my rudder control cables .Question : Since I am building my cables and will keep close tolerances is there any need for the expensive turnbuckles . Thanks Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:06 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage Ihab, I have attached photos of a 20mm x 20mm x .025 angle scrap that I just joggled. Jay in Dallas ihab.awad@gmail.com wrote: > >Jay, > >On 7/5/07, Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: >> I made my joggling blocks from 1 1/2" x 2" hard yellow pine boards ... > >Very nifty. Do you have a picture of the finished, joggled parts? My >own experience joggling with such a setup is that the joggle is nice >and crisp near the "break" but, towards the end of the part, the metal >progressively "relaxes" and "unjoggles". > >Ihab > >-- >Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:27 AM PST US From: Bill Steer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables How will you maintain the required tension on the cables? Also, if the cables stretch slightly over time, how will you compensate if you don't have turnbuckles? Bill do not archive wade jones wrote: > Hello group , I am getting ready to construct my rudder control cables > .Question : Since I am building my cables and will keep close > tolerances is there any need for the expensive turnbuckles . Thanks > Wade Jones South Texas > 601XL plans building > Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:17 AM PST US From: ihab.awad@gmail.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage Thank you! Somehow looks a lot better than my results. I'll try your jig idea! -- I On 7/5/07, Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > Ihab, > > I have attached photos of a 20mm x 20mm x .025 angle scrap that I just joggled. > > Jay in Dallas > > > ihab.awad@gmail.com wrote: > > > > >Jay, > > > >On 7/5/07, Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > >> I made my joggling blocks from 1 1/2" x 2" hard yellow pine boards ... > > > >Very nifty. Do you have a picture of the finished, joggled parts? My > >own experience joggling with such a setup is that the joggle is nice > >and crisp near the "break" but, towards the end of the part, the metal > >progressively "relaxes" and "unjoggles". > > > >Ihab > > > >-- > >Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:37 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Control cables Wade, Over time, your cables will stretch. You need to be able to compensate for that to maintain the proper tension. You could always build in idler pulleys to do that job, but that introduces a bunch of other problems. Turnbuckles are the easy way. Jay in Dallas "wade jones" wrote: >Hello group , I am getting ready to construct my rudder control cables .Question : Since I am building my cables and will keep close tolerances is there any need for the expensive turnbuckles . Thanks >Wade Jones South Texas >601XL plans building >Cont. 0200 > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:33 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables Wade, I built a 601HD 11 years ago. I used the pieces of aluminum extrusion and various lengths of 1/4" diameter bolts - all supplied in the kit, ( to set the tension). I'm an A & P with some experience and was turned off by this at first. I even had certified A/C turnbuckles on hand but decided to go with Chris' simple design. It worked fine, 11 years and 550 hours later - no problems. ( You still have to use safety wire as a precaution). Remember the cables will "stretch" very little in the long run, because we will only have about 18 to 20 pounds tension on them anyway. ( Just take the slack out! ) I've never had to re-adjust mine yet. Of course the expensive "store bought" turnbuckles look nice and certainly will work. But you still have to make the cables the proper length even with them! Jim Hoak - 601HD - 912UL - 550 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: wade jones To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Control cables Hello group , I am getting ready to construct my rudder control cables .Question : Since I am building my cables and will keep close tolerances is there any need for the expensive turnbuckles . Thanks Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:39 PM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables Jim. I am building a 601 HD and saw the Zenith turnbuckles and like you rejected them but sounds like they are the way to go. Also, never did like to safteywire a turnbuckle. Jerry of GA DO NOT ARCHIVE ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:14 PM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables Thanks Jim ,Jay & Bill for your responses .The reason I asked this question is because my 48 year old Piper Tripacer & my 30 year old Sonerai do not use turnbuckles in this application .Don't want to sound argumentative but if is OK on a certified aircraft why not on an experimental .It would be the same amount of work and would save a little expense.Thanks again and I give all responses consideration . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Hoak To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 1:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables Wade, I built a 601HD 11 years ago. I used the pieces of aluminum extrusion and various lengths of 1/4" diameter bolts - all supplied in the kit, ( to set the tension). I'm an A & P with some experience and was turned off by this at first. I even had certified A/C turnbuckles on hand but decided to go with Chris' simple design. It worked fine, 11 years and 550 hours later - no problems. ( You still have to use safety wire as a precaution). Remember the cables will "stretch" very little in the long run, because we will only have about 18 to 20 pounds tension on them anyway. ( Just take the slack out! ) I've never had to re-adjust mine yet. Of course the expensive "store bought" turnbuckles look nice and certainly will work. But you still have to make the cables the proper length even with them! Jim Hoak - 601HD - 912UL - 550 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: wade jones To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Control cables Hello group , I am getting ready to construct my rudder control cables .Question : Since I am building my cables and will keep close tolerances is there any need for the expensive turnbuckles . Thanks Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:29 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage joggle bars or joggle blocks work very well for formed sheet angles but to a lesser degree on extruded sections. We were able to use aluminum and steel joggle blocks on extruded sections back at Cessna Experimental though - make sure that the binding edges (that acturally form the departures from straight) are polished to avoid marking the extrusion - especially near the radius. Thank you! Somehow looks a lot better than my results. I'll try your jig idea! -- I On 7/5/07, Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > Ihab, > > I have attached photos of a 20mm x 20mm x .025 angle scrap that I just joggled. > > Jay in Dallas > > > ihab.awad@gmail.com wrote: > > > > >Jay, > > > >On 7/5/07, Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > >> I made my joggling blocks from 1 1/2" x 2" hard yellow pine boards ... > > > >Very nifty. Do you have a picture of the finished, joggled parts? My > >own experience joggling with such a setup is that the joggle is nice > >and crisp near the "break" but, towards the end of the part, the metal > >progressively "relaxes" and "unjoggles". > > > >Ihab > > > >-- > >Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA Zodiac 601XL/Corvair? --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:20 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables Wade Cable stretch and want to be tightened after a while, much easier with turnbuckles than the flat stock that Zenith uses. Bob Spudis In a message dated 7/5/2007 1:24:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wjones@brazoriainet.com writes: Hello group , I am getting ready to construct my rudder control cables .Question : Since I am building my cables and will keep close tolerances is there any need for the expensive turnbuckles . Thanks Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:36 PM PST US From: VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables I'd use the turn buckles...for a number of reasons. I have made quite a few cables.....cut them to length...swaged the ends, etc. I can get them pretty close to the exact length that I want....but having the turnbuckle lets you fine tune the tension. It also lets you fine tune the position of your stick..or pedals. For example, I decided that I wanted the neutral position of my stick a little further forward than it was initially. Somehow, it just felt more comfortable having the stick about an inch further forward. With the turnbuckles, it's a snap. Just be sure to cut your cables so the turnbuckles are at a midpoint of their adjustment range to start with. Dave 601XL/Corvair N618PZ ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:18 PM PST US From: "Harrison-Hutcheson" Subject: Zenith-List: First flight, test pilot, dual time It would appear that my first real challenge of building a CH701 has just started - I completed my Airworthiness Certification last Friday - 6/29/2007, approximately 1 year after starting assembly of the kit. A phase I testing period of 5 hours has been included as part of the Operating Limitations. Using a "strict interpretation" of this requirement this must be completed with only the pilot on board. Additionally for insurance coverage (under an EAA insurance program) only pilots with 2 or more logged hours specifically in a Zenith STOL CH701 would be covered. It would appear that I am now in desperate need of: 1. Test pilot for first flight. 2. Test pilot for the 5-hour Phase I flight testing. 3. Experienced pilot to provide 2 hours of dual instruction. The insurance underwriter had initially indicated this pilot needed to be a CFI but after pushing back they acknowledged that finding a CFI in Western Missouri/Eastern Kansas with CH701 experience would be next to impossible so they relented and will allow any pilot with 2 or more CH701 experience to provide "dual time". Only "named pilots" would be covered, therefore I would need to be able to provide the insurance underwriter/agency with any pilots name, address, and appropriate Zenith STOL CH701 flight history. The plane is currently located in Harrisonville MO (KLRY) If you can be of help, or know someone in the Midwest that might be able to help please contact me off-line at: samhutcheson@kc.rr.com 913-268-6840 or 913-238-3807 3717 W 155th St. Overland Park, KS 66224 Thanks, Sammy J Hutcheson Zenith STOL CH701 N6412Z ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:56 PM PST US From: "Joe" Subject: Zenith-List: Place to stay for Oshkosh If anyone needs a place to stay for Oshkosh, my neighbor mentioned today she will be gone for the entire week and you can rent her house. The place would be great for one or two couples, Laundry, satelite TV, and just a few min from the airport. You can come and help me pull rivets! I already have a housefull. Contact me offline and I will set it up. 920-237-1450. Joe in Oshkosh ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:30 PM PST US From: Christopher Galante Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ham Radio KF6YZH - Chris Galante - Hello! ----- Original Message ---- From: George Race Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2007 4:43:25 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Ham Radio >From time to time someone mentions Ham Radio or Amateur Radio on the list. I also see some email addresses that look like Amateur Radio Call Signs. I am curious how many on the list have their Ham License? I have been WB8BGY since 1969. Google my call sign to see my Amateur Radio background. 73...George do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:18 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight, test pilot, dual time Hi Sam, It'd seem easier to find a good pilot with insurance, CFI if possible, with a willingness to put 2 - 4 hours on your plane and then get dual time so that your insurers will cover you from that point. You're not likely to have serious problems if you've done your homework and it sounds like you have. Otherwise, the logistics are awkward, but worst case, have a look at the 701 map to find the nearest 701 flying. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Harrison-Hutcheson wrote: > It would appear that my first real challenge of building a CH701 has > just started - I completed my Airworthiness Certification last Friday > - 6/29/2007, approximately 1 year after starting assembly of the kit. > A phase I testing period of 5 hours has been included as part of the > Operating Limitations. Using a "strict interpretation" of this > requirement this must be completed with only the pilot on board. > > Additionally for insurance coverage (under an EAA insurance program) > only pilots with 2 or more logged hours specifically in a > Zenith STOL CH701 would be covered. It would appear that I am now in > desperate need of: > > 1. Test pilot for first flight. > > 2. Test pilot for the 5-hour Phase I flight testing. > > 3. Experienced pilot to provide 2 hours of dual instruction. The > insurance underwriter had initially indicated this pilot needed to be > a CFI but after pushing back they acknowledged that finding a CFI in > Western Missouri/Eastern Kansas with CH701 experience would be next to > impossible so they relented and will allow any pilot with 2 or more > CH701 experience to provide "dual time". > > Only "named pilots" would be covered, therefore I would need to be > able to provide the insurance underwriter/agency with any pilots name, > address, and appropriate Zenith STOL CH701 flight history. The plane > is currently located in Harrisonville MO (KLRY) > > If you can be of help, or know someone in the Midwest that might be > able to help please contact me off-line at: > > samhutcheson@kc.rr.com > 913-268-6840 or 913-238-3807 > 3717 W 155th St. Overland Park, KS 66224 > > Thanks, > > Sammy J Hutcheson > Zenith STOL CH701 > N6412Z > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:56 PM PST US From: Robert Hansen Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Place to stay for Oshkosh I am staying at http://www.redbanks.net/ , looks like nice cabins on the river for $95 night (2 bedroom). Today I called and added one more day to my cabin with no problem. Distance 30 miles. Just for anyones info, in case they are still looking. Rob Hansen http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/ ----- Original Message ---- From: Joe Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2007 4:08:34 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Place to stay for Oshkosh If anyone needs a place to stay for Oshkosh, my neighbor mentioned today she will be gone for the entire week and you can rent her house. The place would be great for one or two couples, Laundry, satelite TV, and just a few min from the airport. You can come and help me pull rivets! I already have a housefull. Contact me offline and I will set it up. 920-237-1450. Joe in Oshkosh Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:42 PM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight, test pilot, dual time Harrison, I am insured with Skysmith and after checking with several insurance companies including the one EAA recommends, I found them to be the cheapest. They will sell you full coverage which I would recommend and cancel all but libility when you have learned to fly your aircraft. This way if you break something learning, you will be covered. Here is their URL http://www.skysmith.com/ They have an 800 number shown on the web site and there is also a form for pilot history and an application Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Harrison-Hutcheson To: Zenith-List Digest Server Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:02 PM Subject: Zenith-List: First flight, test pilot, dual time It would appear that my first real challenge of building a CH701 has just started - I completed my Airworthiness Certification last Friday - 6/29/2007, approximately 1 year after starting assembly of the kit. A phase I testing period of 5 hours has been included as part of the Operating Limitations. Using a "strict interpretation" of this requirement this must be completed with only the pilot on board. Additionally for insurance coverage (under an EAA insurance program) only pilots with 2 or more logged hours specifically in a Zenith STOL CH701 would be covered. It would appear that I am now in desperate need of: 1. Test pilot for first flight. 2. Test pilot for the 5-hour Phase I flight testing. 3. Experienced pilot to provide 2 hours of dual instruction. The insurance underwriter had initially indicated this pilot needed to be a CFI but after pushing back they acknowledged that finding a CFI in Western Missouri/Eastern Kansas with CH701 experience would be next to impossible so they relented and will allow any pilot with 2 or more CH701 experience to provide "dual time". Only "named pilots" would be covered, therefore I would need to be able to provide the insurance underwriter/agency with any pilots name, address, and appropriate Zenith STOL CH701 flight history. The plane is currently located in Harrisonville MO (KLRY) If you can be of help, or know someone in the Midwest that might be able to help please contact me off-line at: samhutcheson@kc.rr.com 913-268-6840 or 913-238-3807 3717 W 155th St. Overland Park, KS 66224 Thanks, Sammy J Hutcheson Zenith STOL CH701 N6412Z ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:06 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables turnbuckle are a requirement in my opinion, as the cable over time is prone to streching. you need to be able to abjust the tension on the cables to the apropiate foot Lbs. Juan Vega -----Original Message----- >From: NYTerminat@aol.com >Sent: Jul 5, 2007 4:09 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables > > >Wade > >Cable stretch and want to be tightened after a while, much easier with >turnbuckles than the flat stock that Zenith uses. > >Bob Spudis > > > >In a message dated 7/5/2007 1:24:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >wjones@brazoriainet.com writes: > >Hello group , I am getting ready to construct my rudder control cables >.Question : Since I am building my cables and will keep close tolerances is there >any need for the expensive turnbuckles . Thanks >Wade Jones South Texas >601XL plans building >Cont. 0200 > > > > > >************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:18 PM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables Thanks to all that responded to my control cable issue .Since I always fly with my feet on the rudder pedals and this controls my cable tension I may not use turnbuckles on the rudders. Due to the control stick torque tube having no forward movement control stops and relying on cable tension only to keep it in place . I think it best to use the turnbuckles on the elevator cables .Do you guys think this will work out OK . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: VideoFlyer@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables I'd use the turn buckles...for a number of reasons. I have made quite a few cables.....cut them to length...swaged the ends, etc. I can get them pretty close to the exact length that I want....but having the turnbuckle lets you fine tune the tension. It also lets you fine tune the position of your stick..or pedals. For example, I decided that I wanted the neutral position of my stick a little further forward than it was initially. Somehow, it just felt more comfortable having the stick about an inch further forward. With the turnbuckles, it's a snap. Just be sure to cut your cables so the turnbuckles are at a midpoint of their adjustment range to start with. Dave 601XL/Corvair N618PZ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:18 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Ham Radio From: "KC7HFA" KC7HFA in Southern Oregon... 73's Ron -------- Ron Asbill N601ZX - CH-601 XL Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122447#122447 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:49 PM PST US From: "Bill Stuart" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Ham Radio VE9RF...former VE1BTZ...Since early 80 Scratch building 701 for 2 years now , many more to go. Never would have made it this far without the help of Jon,s DVD,s and this list. Working for a living keeps getting in the way lol. 73s Bill Stuart From: "KC7HFA" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Ham Radio KC7HFA in Southern Oregon... 73's Ron -------- Ron Asbill N601ZX - CH-601 XL Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122447#122447 _________________________________________________________________ Fight Allergies With Live Search http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=Remedies+For+Spring+Allergies&mkt=en-ca&FORM=SERNEP ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:13 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Ham Radio From: "rroberts" KC8HIJ mid-80s -------- Low & Slow Rick www.n701rr.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122454#122454 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:33 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Ham Radio For no special reason, I was looking up on the Internet movie data base what movies the Actor and Folk singer; Burl Ives appeared in, and the following note appeared: Was a licensed amateur (ham) radio with the call sign KA6HVA. When he passed away, he became, in ham radio parlance, a "silent key." http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0412322/ Just a bit of trivia to add to the thread, you never know who's a "Ham". Regards, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:19 PM PST US From: "Herb Heaton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables Wade, I think you will need turnbuckles on the rudder cables too. Since the rudder pedals are connected to the nose gear strut with pushrods, you will have to have some way to balance the tension on the rudder cables. If the cables are loose you can't take the slop out by pushing on the rudder pedals. Herb >From: "wade jones" >To: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables >Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 19:19:37 -0500 > >Thanks to all that responded to my control cable issue .Since I always fly >with my feet on the rudder pedals and this controls my cable tension I may >not use turnbuckles on the rudders. Due to the control stick torque tube >having no forward movement control stops and relying on cable tension only >to keep it in place . I think it best to use the turnbuckles on the >elevator cables .Do you guys think this will work out OK . >Wade Jones South Texas >601XL plans building >Cont. 0200 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: VideoFlyer@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:16 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables > > > I'd use the turn buckles...for a number of reasons. I have made quite >a few cables.....cut them to length...swaged the ends, etc. I can get them >pretty close to the exact length that I want....but having the turnbuckle >lets you fine tune the tension. It also lets you fine tune the position of >your stick..or pedals. For example, I decided that I wanted the neutral >position of my stick a little further forward than it was initially. >Somehow, it just felt more comfortable having the stick about an inch >further forward. With the turnbuckles, it's a snap. Just be sure to cut >your cables so the turnbuckles are at a midpoint of their adjustment range >to start with. > > Dave > 601XL/Corvair N618PZ > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com. > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:26 PM PST US From: "Dave Thompson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: : Zip tie nipper I am not building yet but.. I plan to use lacing tape as Paul suggested. I also plan to use the removable ty-wraps (you can get them from Home Depot) so I can build the loom and route all the wires first. I will then tie the finished bundle and remove the temporary ty-wraps. I use this method for installing telephone and network cabling where they all come together in the terminal. It also allows me to "comb" the bundle before finish tying. I also like the looks of a laced bundle rather than ty-wraps. Dave Thompson ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:27 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Control cables From: "leinad" Wade, I'm a fellow plans builder and a bit confused by your plan. Are you doing the standard tri-gear, or will it be a tail dragger? On the tri-gear the rudder peddles are tied together through the front gear steering linkage, so it seams like feet on the peddles will have little if any effect on rudder cable tension. My plan is to adjust the tie rod ends on the stearing gear until the rudder peddles are in the neutral position with the front wheel straight ahead, then adjust the rudder cables to also put the rudder in the neutral position. I wouldn't want them not to be coordinated. Maybe you have some other adjustment mechanism in mind?? If you're doing a tail dragger this may become a mute point. Dan XL/Corvair > Since I always fly with my feet on the rudder pedals and this controls my cable tension I may not use turnbuckles on the rudders. Due to the control stick torque tube having no forward movement control stops and relying on cable tension only to keep it in place . I think it best to use the turnbuckles on the elevator cables .Do you guys think this will work out OK . > Wade Jones South Texas > 601XL plans building -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122460#122460 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:38 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801: Joggling the L's in the Rear Fuselage From: "dj45" Just make a form from a oak 4X4 and use a rubber mallet and they will turn out just fine. -------- Do not archive Dan Stanton 90% done 90% to go 801, IO360 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122461#122461 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:15 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight, test pilot, dual time Sammy, Congratulations on getting to the point where you are. How did you get a 5 Hr Phase 1? In a message dated 7/5/2007 6:06:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, samhutcheson@kc.rr.com writes: It would appear that my first real challenge of building a CH701 has just started - I completed my Airworthiness Certification last Friday - 6/29/2007, approximately 1 year after starting assembly of the kit. A phase I testing period of 5 hours has been included as part of the Operating Limitations. Using a "strict interpretation" of this requirement this must be completed with only the pilot on board. Additionally for insurance coverage (under an EAA insurance program) only pilots with 2 or more logged hours specifically in a Zenith STOL CH701 would be covered. It would appear that I am now in desperate need of: 1. Test pilot for first flight.Go to the factory in Mexico, Mo and get in a couple of hours with Roger. 2. Test pilot for the 5-hour Phase I flight testing.Once you have some time in under your belt and feel comfortable flying the plane, do your own Phase 1 flying. Are you current? Have you been flying at all recently? Get yourself up to speed before you fly on your own. 3. Experienced pilot to provide 2 hours of dual instruction. The insurance underwriter had initially indicated this pilot needed to be a CFI but after pushing back they acknowledged that finding a CFI in Western Missouri/Eastern Kansas with CH701 experience would be next to impossible so they relented and will allow any pilot with 2 or more CH701 experience to provide "dual time".Do this with Roger at Mexico, MO This is what I did. Only "named pilots" would be covered, therefore I would need to be able to provide the insurance underwriter/agency with any pilots name, address, and appropriate Zenith STOL CH701 flight history. The plane is currently located in Harrisonville MO (KLRY) I have the same insurance and they accepted my time with Roger. Good luck. Bob Spudis N701ZX CH-701 112hrs If you can be of help, or know someone in the Midwest that might be able to help please contact me off-line at: _samhutcheson@kc.rr.com_ (mailto:samhutcheson@kc.rr.com) 913-268-6840 or 913-238-3807 3717 W 155th St. Overland Park, KS 66224 Thanks, Sammy J Hutcheson Zenith STOL CH701 N6412Z ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:15 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Latch From: "leinad" Malcom, My thanks too.! Wade, What's the source? All I've found is company's that require a request for quotes. I've requested the quotes, but somehow don't think they are going to appreciate requests for quatities of ones and twos. I haven't heard from them yet. Dan Dempsey 601XL/Corvair Do not archive > Thank you Malcolm for this info it will be a great help ,by the way I found some for $7.35 each .I have not ordered yet . DO Not Archive > Wade Jones South Texas > -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122463#122463 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:35 PM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Control cables Good point Leinad ,I am going the tri-gear route but I was thinking the tail gear route .When I fly my Sonerai (tail wheel} I control the tension by my feet on the rudder pedals .My Tri-pacer is so easy to fly anything goes .Guess I will have to stop being so cheap and buy the turnbuckles ,case closed. Do not Archive Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "leinad" Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:36 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Control cables > > Wade, > I'm a fellow plans builder and a bit confused by your plan. Are you doing > the standard tri-gear, or will it be a tail dragger? On the tri-gear the > rudder peddles are tied together through the front gear steering linkage, > so it seams like feet on the peddles will have little if any effect on > rudder cable tension. My plan is to adjust the tie rod ends on the > stearing gear until the rudder peddles are in the neutral position with > the front wheel straight ahead, then adjust the rudder cables to also put > the rudder in the neutral position. I wouldn't want them not to be > coordinated. Maybe you have some other adjustment mechanism in mind?? > If you're doing a tail dragger this may become a mute point. > Dan > XL/Corvair > > >> Since I always fly with my feet on the rudder pedals and this controls my >> cable tension I may not use turnbuckles on the rudders. Due to the >> control stick torque tube having no forward movement control stops and >> relying on cable tension only to keep it in place . I think it best to >> use the turnbuckles on the elevator cables .Do you guys think this will >> work out OK . >> Wade Jones South Texas >> 601XL plans building > > > -------- > Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122460#122460 > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:09 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: Turnbuckles Wade and others contemplating turnbuckles: Note that there is a variety of turnbuckle which does not need to be safety-wired. See pg. 136 in the Aircraft Spruce catalog for MS clip-locking turnbuckle assemblies. George ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:40 PM PST US From: John Collins Subject: Zenith-List: Ham Radio Hi, list, KH6GC since 1976 and HP2XBB (in Panama, current) John Collins San Diego and Panama --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:35 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables Sounds like you're building a tail wheel Zodiac. In that case you might not need turnbuckles in the rudder cables. In the nose wheel version, foot pressure on the pedals has little effect on the cable tension due to the direct connection of the nose wheel steering rods. wade jones wrote: > Thanks to all that responded to my control cable issue .Since I always > fly with my feet on the rudder pedals and this controls my cable tension > I may not use turnbuckles on the rudders. Due to the control stick > torque tube having no forward movement control stops and relying on > cable tension only to keep it in place . I think it best to use the > turnbuckles on the elevator cables .Do you guys think this will work out > OK . > Wade Jones South Texas > 601XL plans building > Cont. 0200 > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.