---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/08/07: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:11 AM - canadian builders inspections (najnielkp) 2. 05:47 AM - Re: canadian builders inspections (MacDonald Doug) 3. 07:30 AM - Re: canadian builders inspections (Ron Lalonde) 4. 08:41 AM - Re: canadian builders inspections (Bill Naumuk) 5. 09:51 AM - Re: canadian builders inspections (Dave G.) 6. 10:04 AM - Control cable (wade jones) 7. 10:20 AM - An fittings (flyingmike9) 8. 11:08 AM - Re: An fittings (Jim Hoak) 9. 11:21 AM - Re: An fittings (flyingmike9) 10. 01:58 PM - Tail Light 701 (Robert Hansen) 11. 02:30 PM - Re: canadian builders inspections (najnielkp) 12. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: Moving the Fuel Selector Valve and Gascolator (Steve Hulland) 13. 04:12 PM - 601XL solo wing installation Instructable (kkinney) 14. 06:04 PM - Re: 601XL solo wing installation Instructable (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 15. 06:30 PM - Re: 601XL solo wing installation Instructable (Paul Mulwitz) 16. 07:51 PM - Aileron bellcrank countersink (lwinger) 17. 08:04 PM - Re: First flight, test pilot, dual time (Gig Giacona) 18. 08:10 PM - Re: Re;How about a sliding canopy/ (Gig Giacona) 19. 09:07 PM - Re: First flight, test pilot, dual time (Jeff Small) 20. 09:17 PM - Re: Re: First flight, test pilot, dual time (Paul Mulwitz) 21. 09:19 PM - Re:Re:How about a sliding canopy (MaxNr@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:48 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: canadian builders inspections From: "najnielkp" hello all, i am a new member to the list, scratch building a 601xl.i have a question about inspections. at what stages of completion did you have inspections by transport canada ? how much of each section did you close in? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122712#122712 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:05 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: canadian builders inspections Hi there, welcome to the group. I'm building a CH-701 in Northwestern Ontario and planning on going the Amateur Build route. First, it is no longer Transport Canada that inspects AB aircraft in Canada. This has been taken over by the MD-RA. The first thing that you need to do before building is go to their website www.md-ra.com and open a Letter of Intent. This lets them know that you exist and what you are planning on building. They charge $58.30 for this service with taxes. As for how far to build before the pre-cover inspection, you cannot close any structure that cannot be internally inspected. That means that you cannot fully rivet things like your rudder. You must leave one side loose so that your inspector can look at the interior of the structure. This issue can be a bit of a headache but we must play by the rules. The final inspection will be done at the airport where you intend on doing your first stage testing. The aircraft will have to be totally ready to go. Any snags from the pre-cover must be fixed and documented. You also have to have at least one hour of ground running on the engine (I think). Also you have to have done a fuel flow test. This essentially proves there will be enough fuel delivered to the engine in the worst possible situation (usually full climb). I'm sure that I have glossed over several details but this will give you an idea of where to start. The MD-RA website has all of this info. A couple of additional sources for homebuilt information in Canada are www.raa.ca and www.copanational.org. The RAA and COPA have all sorts of helpful documents on their web site to help guide you through our Canadian red tape rich rules. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch builder NW Ontario, Canada This one should be in the archives. --- najnielkp wrote: > > > hello all, i am a new member to the list, scratch > building a 601xl.i have a question about > inspections. at what stages of completion did you > have inspections by transport canada ? how much of > each section did you close in? > It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:02 AM PST US From: "Ron Lalonde" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: canadian builders inspections Hi Doug The "intent to build" has gone up in price from 35 dollars just a couple years ago? I made an inquiry to the MRDA as to the purpose of this, and what was covered by this fee. Cant get a straight answer! This is such an obvious money grab that it sickens me. It is no wonder the government forced aircraft designers and manufacturers like Chris Heintz to move to the USA. If anyone can explain the services provided by the "Intent to Build" paperwork, I would be happy to find out. The MRDA cant give me a satisfactory explanation....yet they raised the fee?? The cost of the pre-cover and final inspections are daunting at best. All expenses of the inspector are paid by the aircraft owner, so if you live in an out of the way area of Canada be prepared to add hundreds (at least) of dollars to the cost of your project. Hate to be such a downer on this subject, but the government "privatized" this service and is, making it increasingly more expensive for the homebuilder. What you get, for what you are forced to pay, nowhere equals the services provided......not even close. The only saving grace on this issue is that the inspectors/employees of the MRDA are a good group, knowledgable and helpful. Its too bad the government makes THEM seem to be the BANDITS. Ron XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXI Hi there, welcome to the group. I'm building a CH-701 >in Northwestern Ontario and planning on going the >Amateur Build route. > >First, it is no longer Transport Canada that inspects >AB aircraft in Canada. This has been taken over by >the MD-RA. The first thing that you need to do before >building is go to their website www.md-ra.com and open >a Letter of Intent. This lets them know that you >exist and what you are planning on building. They >charge $58.30 for this service with taxes. > >As for how far to build before the pre-cover >inspection, you cannot close any structure that cannot >be internally inspected. That means that you cannot >fully rivet things like your rudder. You must leave >one side loose so that your inspector can look at the >interior of the structure. This issue can be a bit of >a headache but we must play by the rules. > >The final inspection will be done at the airport where >you intend on doing your first stage testing. The >aircraft will have to be totally ready to go. Any >snags from the pre-cover must be fixed and documented. > You also have to have at least one hour of ground >running on the engine (I think). Also you have to >have done a fuel flow test. This essentially proves >there will be enough fuel delivered to the engine in >the worst possible situation (usually full climb). > >I'm sure that I have glossed over several details but >this will give you an idea of where to start. The >MD-RA website has all of this info. > >A couple of additional sources for homebuilt >information in Canada are www.raa.ca and >www.copanational.org. The RAA and COPA have all sorts >of helpful documents on their web site to help guide >you through our Canadian red tape rich rules. > >Doug MacDonald >CH-701 Scratch builder >NW Ontario, Canada >This one should be in the archives. > > >--- najnielkp wrote: > > > > > > > hello all, i am a new member to the list, scratch > > building a 601xl.i have a question about > > inspections. at what stages of completion did you > > have inspections by transport canada ? how much of > > each section did you close in? > > > > >It's here! Your new message! >Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. >http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail gives you the control you need to help you keep your e-mail private, safe and secure. See for yourself! www.newhotmail.ca?icid=WLHMENCA147 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:44 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: canadian builders inspections Canadian pals- When I was at Brampford last month, I couldn't understand why everything was more expensive than quoted on-line. That's when I found out that on top of THIS tax and THAT tax, you assessed the OTHER tax. We're only days behind you. If our state lawmakers haven't decided on the OTHER tax by midnight tonight half of Pennsylvania will be closed Monday. Seriously. However, there may be an exemption negotiated to keep the casinos open. At least Canadians have (From what the people I spoke to told me) good national healthcare. Our only alternative in the US is to prove we don't have a pot to piss in and no marketable skills. Then we can go on welfare and be taken care of cradle to grave. "We're all in this together. I'm pulling for you". - Steve Smith, AKA Red Green. Iconic Canadian who now spends half the year golfing in Florida. Good building! do not archive Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa This is such an obvious money grab that it sickens me. It is no wonder the government forced aircraft designers and manufacturers like Chris Heintz to move to the USA. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:38 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: canadian builders inspections This thread may well be one of those slippery slopes. The next comment will come from an indignant republican decrying our "socialist" values etc. While I understand and sympathize with those who pay exhorbitant fees, this may not be the best venue to discuss the differences between our countries. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:28 AM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Zenith-List: Control cable Hello group ,I am fitting my control cables .The aileron control horn hits the upper elevator cable when deflected to the left .Bill Sewell had this also and revised the cable routing .Do any of you other builders have this problem or is it a problem. Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:09 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: An fittings From: "flyingmike9" hello group installing my gascolator and fuel pump today will be using Rotax engine my question is when using AN fittings do you have to use sealant to seal the fittings i am using collars and nuts with 5/16 alu tube or is the collar what is needed the 5/16 tube has been flare also thank you mike lloyd 601xl fuse 80% rotax912 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122738#122738 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:48 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: An fittings Mike, Normally there is no sealer used when fitting a flared tube, with the proper collar, to an AN fitting. If the flare has been properly done ( be carefull here since auto flaring tools make a different angle than do aircraft flaring tools ) and there is no damage to the fitting or the end of the tube these connections are not much of a problem when properly tightened. Be carefull with alignment also. If it leaks there is usually a mechanical problem causing it. On occasion, I've used sealer on the pipe thread end of an AN fitting, but normally this isn't necessary either. Sometimes, when installing a AN fitting that is an elbow, and to get it to point the correct way, before becoming fully tight upon installation, I've used a sealant on the pipe threads. Don't use plumbers "Ribbon Dope" unless you are very carefull. It doesn't take much of this to clog up a filter, carb jet or some kind of orfice. If you do use a sealant on a pipe thread, don't put it near the end of the fitting for the same reasons stated above. Hope this little bit of info helps. do not archive Jim Hoak ----- Original Message ----- From: "flyingmike9" Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 12:18 PM Subject: Zenith-List: An fittings > > hello group > installing my gascolator and fuel pump today will be using Rotax engine > my question is when using AN fittings do you have to use sealant to seal > the fittings i am using collars and nuts with 5/16 alu tube or is the > collar what is needed the 5/16 tube has been flare also > > thank you > mike lloyd > 601xl fuse 80% > rotax912 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122738#122738 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:29 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: An fittings From: "flyingmike9" excellent thank you very much i do have the correct flaring tool 37degree type have uesd fuelube sealant on the threads this helps for the alu to alu fittings but thank you for you help mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122741#122741 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:53 PM PST US From: Robert Hansen Subject: Zenith-List: Tail Light 701 I purchased a tail light from www.kestrobes.com No strobe just two white LEDs 12v. It is a nice light, you can see pics on my website http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/ . This light must be mounted on the top or the bottom of the rudder, on either Rib 1 or the tip Rib. I sent an email to ZAC but have not heard back from them about the structural side of drilling into the rib. Has anyone mounted a tail light or any type of light on the Rudder (top or bottom)? Any recomendations? I will see a 701 in two weeks at Oshkosh and that may help with me understanding the finished area. I also wonder if the light could be mounted on the bottom side of the rear fuselage, but am concerned that I would not meet the required lighting angles. I need to stay with this light because #1- already purchased #2- I want LED lighting 12v. #3- I like the light (bright). Rob Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: canadian builders inspections From: "najnielkp" hi , thanks for the info. i do have my letter of intent with the MD-RA. it was applied in the fall of 2005. 1 month ago they just got around to processing it. after a 1 year hiatus , back to building . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122757#122757 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:17 PM PST US From: "Steve Hulland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Moving the Fuel Selector Valve and Gascolator Build a tailwheeled airplane - they are more fun to fly anyway, HA! Do Not Archive. -- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 600 Taildragger Amado, AZ This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:29 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL solo wing installation Instructable From: "kkinney" Hi folks, I've cobbled together my first Instructable. It deals with how to install the 601XL wings by yourself. http://www.instructables.com/id/E112DI4F3SYP05I/ If you have a heart condition, skip step 4. If you DON'T have a heart condition, step 4 closely simulates one. I'd like to see more people publish Instructables. I'd suggest putting "Zenith" and you planes' model number in the title. For example, "601XL." I'm feeling psychic. I predict you will spend the next half hour or more exploring Instructables. They have some really cool stuff out there. Regards, Kevin Kinney Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122769#122769 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:00 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL solo wing installation Instructable I do like the instructable and I to work alone but I found that an engine hoist and two straps allows you to lift the wing to the proper height and also lets you tilt and angle the wing so it will just slide in. Jeff Hi folks, I've cobbled together my first Instructable. It deals with how to install the 601XL wings by yourself. http://www.instructables.com/id/E112DI4F3SYP05I/ If you have a heart condition, skip step 4. If you DON'T have a heart condition, step 4 closely simulates one. I'd like to see more people publish Instructables. I'd suggest putting "Zenith" and you planes' model number in the title. For example, "601XL." I'm feeling psychic. I predict you will spend the next half hour or more exploring Instructables. They have some really cool stuff out there. Regards, Kevin Kinney ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:37 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL solo wing installation Instructable Hi Kevin, Very nice presentation. I also like your homegrown tools for lining up the wing attach holes. Too bad you put the gascolators where they made this little task even more difficult. Paul XL Fuselage - almost ready to hang the wings. At 04:10 PM 7/8/2007, you wrote: >Hi folks, I've cobbled together my first Instructable. It deals >with how to install the 601XL wings by yourself. > >http://www.instructables.com/id/E112DI4F3SYP05I/ >If you have a heart condition, skip step 4. >If you DON'T have a heart condition, step 4 closely simulates one. > >I'd like to see more people publish Instructables. I'd suggest >putting "Zenith" and you planes' model number in the title. For >example, "601XL." > >I'm feeling psychic. I predict you will spend the next half hour or >more exploring Instructables. They have some really cool stuff out there. > >Regards, >Kevin Kinney ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:27 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron bellcrank countersink From: "lwinger" This should be a simple question for you scratch builders. Where did you get the countersink for 6-W-10-2 (bellcrank spacers)? What model number/part number? It needs to be able to bevel for an AN426 rivet head in 1/4 aluminum. I did a test using a countersink I had for woodworking, and at that depth it began to "chatter" and it made an irregular edge. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL/Corvair from scratch Control surfaces and wing spars complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122790#122790 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First flight, test pilot, dual time From: "Gig Giacona" This is probably going to upset some folks but, it is my personal feeling that the 5-hour E-LSA Phase 1 is a huge mistake that will come back to haunt the entire LSA program. 5 hours is not nearly enough time to test a 601XL or any other aircraft like it before unrestricted flight. phd1993 wrote: > I thought the entire email list might derive some benefit from my answer to the 5- versus 40-hour Phase I question. I registered the airplane as Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (E-LSA) instead of Experimental Amateur Built (E-AB). The E-AB registration would have required the 40 hour Phase I flight testing but would have allowed me to perform annual condition inspections. As E-LSA I needed to take the special 16-hour FAA approved course to allow me to perform annual condition inspections ON ANY E-LSA that I currently own or own in the future. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122793#122793 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:53 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Re;How about a sliding canopy/ From: "Gig Giacona" It isn't going to slide very well upside down. MaxNr(at)aol.com wrote: > Second, If I flipped over, it would be tough to break out without some kind of tool handy. All that said, the type of canopy on Ercoupes, Swifts and P38 lightnings looks like it may have merit and may be lighter than gull wings. > Do not archive > Bob from Pace,FL XL/LYC > > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122795#122795 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:44 PM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First flight, test pilot, dual time This is probably going to upset some folks but, it is my personal feeling that the 5-hour E-LSA Phase 1 is a huge mistake that will come back to haunt the entire LSA program. 5 hours is not nearly enough time to test a 601XL or any other aircraft like it before unrestricted flight. +++ Would say I agree wholeheartedly knowing that many will disagree. One other point: the a/c that Phil describes is an HDS. Can an older HD or HDS be registered as an E-LSA as, to my knowledge, Zenith has not sought approval of the kit in that category? Bryan M., you have a good command of the whole LSA/SP thing, what is your take on this? SWE Area 41 jeff do not archive phd1993 wrote: > I thought the entire email list might derive some benefit from my answer to the 5- versus 40-hour Phase I question. I registered the airplane as Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (E-LSA) instead of Experimental Amateur Built (E-AB). The E-AB registration would have required the 40 hour Phase I flight testing but would have allowed me to perform annual condition inspections. As E-LSA I needed to take the special 16-hour FAA approved course to allow me to perform annual condition inspections ON ANY E-LSA that I currently own or own in the future. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:59 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: First flight, test pilot, dual time Hi Gig, Please keep in mind that the 5 hour test minimum is just that -- a minimum. It is up to the builder to make sure he does sufficient testing even in the face of freedom from government restriction. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 08:04 PM 7/8/2007, you wrote: >This is probably going to upset some folks but, it is my personal >feeling that the 5-hour E-LSA Phase 1 is a huge mistake that will >come back to haunt the entire LSA program. 5 hours is not nearly >enough time to test a 601XL or any other aircraft like it before >unrestricted flight. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:08 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Re:How about a sliding canopy The upside down scenario is enough reason to reject a slider. I still like the P38 type, but I will make the stock flip top model anyway. do not archive bob ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.