Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:14 AM - Re: Trailering the 701 (David Downey)
2. 05:00 AM - Re: Trailering the 701 (Gordon)
3. 08:06 AM - Re: First flight... not so good (n85ae)
4. 08:41 AM - Temporary Removal from the List ()
5. 08:46 AM - Re: Temporary Removal from the List (Matt Dralle)
6. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: First flight... not so good (R.P.)
7. 09:54 AM - Re: LRI Probe position (Stanley Challgren)
8. 10:36 AM - Re: First flight... not so good (n85ae)
9. 10:39 AM - Re: Re: First flight... not so good (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
10. 12:10 PM - Re: First flight... not so good (Gig Giacona)
11. 12:24 PM - Re: Canadian Pricing of Kits (rlalonde)
12. 12:31 PM - Re: panel access (milreed)
13. 12:34 PM - Re: Re: First flight... not so good (Clyde Barcus)
14. 12:48 PM - 601XL Wing Spar (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
15. 01:01 PM - Re: 601XL Wing Spar (Gig Giacona)
16. 01:30 PM - Corvair engine for sale (Joe)
17. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Spar (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
18. 01:49 PM - Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? (AB_Summit)
19. 02:27 PM - Please let it go (kevinbonds)
20. 03:10 PM - Re: Please let it go (Kevin L. Rupert)
21. 04:44 PM - Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? (William Dominguez)
22. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: First flight... not so good (Bryan Martin)
23. 05:03 PM - Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? (Matt Stecher)
24. 05:08 PM - Re: Please let it go (Art Gibeaut)
25. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: First flight... not so good (Juan Vega)
26. 05:50 PM - Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? (Paul Mulwitz)
27. 07:21 PM - Re: CH701 brakes (txpilot)
28. 07:39 PM - 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation (txpilot)
29. 08:11 PM - Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? (MacDonald Doug)
30. 08:11 PM - Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? (ZodieRocket)
31. 08:15 PM - Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation (Jon Croke)
32. 08:17 PM - FW: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? (ZodieRocket)
33. 08:20 PM - Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation (Jon Croke)
34. 08:29 PM - Re: Re: First flight... not so good (NYTerminat@aol.com)
35. 08:42 PM - Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? (Gary Boothe)
36. 08:59 PM - Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? (kevinbonds)
37. 10:56 PM - William Wynne's Corvair site updated (Craig Payne)
38. 11:05 PM - Re: William Wynne's Corvair site updated (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering the 701 |
do not archive
Hi Rick;
I took a 6 week, 16,000 mile overland trip to/around Alaska in 96. I would be concerned
over the constant bouncing on the uneven road surfaces and the continuous
stones and gravel tossed at your plane. Perhaps an enclosed trailer with
the wings removed and sitting leading edge down in full length conformal nests
of foam? Also, pinch boards of 2" foam (full chord+) to immobilize the controll
surfaces during travel? Perhaps build a truss into the floor of the trailer
to support the engine mount under the engine (nose gear off the deck)?
These are just a few of the ideas that need to be considered due to the poor condition
of the roads there. It is amazing that the roads in Canada are spectacularly
maintained. You can tell with your eyes closed when you cross into Alaska
and vice-versa...
I am going to take a long vacation north into Canada and Alaska and would like
to take my 701. Dose any one have any experience with trailering the 701 for extended
time and over rough roads? Ive looked at the folding wing MOD from Zenith
and Im not to sure its up to a trip like that. Your thoughts and experience
on the subject would be appreciated.
Thanks
Rick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124011#124011
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering the 701 |
I trailered a vintage Airstream trailer to Alaska a couple of years ago
from Vermont. I agree with David, the roads in Alaska are brutal and
constantly under some form of repair. My Airstream has a single axel and
it really got bounced around, a double axel would help a lot. I had a
side window in the Airstream shattered by gravel from a passing truck
and the windshield of my truck had several repairs to keep it together
until I got home and had it replaced. A enclosed trailer is crucial!
Night and day between the Canadian roads, rest stops, camping areas, as
compared to the American side as David pointed out.
----- Original Message -----
From: David Downey
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Trailering the 701
do not archive
Hi Rick;
I took a 6 week, 16,000 mile overland trip to/around Alaska in 96. I
would be concerned over the constant bouncing on the uneven road
surfaces and the continuous stones and gravel tossed at your plane.
Perhaps an enclosed trailer with the wings removed and sitting leading
edge down in full length conformal nests of foam? Also, pinch boards of
2" foam (full chord+) to immobilize the controll surfaces during travel?
Perhaps build a truss into the floor of the trailer to support the
engine mount under the engine (nose gear off the deck)?
These are just a few of the ideas that need to be considered due to
the poor condition of the roads there. It is amazing that the roads in
Canada are spectacularly maintained. You can tell with your eyes closed
when you cross into Alaska and vice-versa...
ricklach <rick@ravengear.us> wrote:
--> http://forums.matronics.com
===========
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: First flight... not so good |
Here's the story, with pilots name, etc.
http://www.bakersfield.com/102/story/188975.html
I hate it when people doctor stuff, that's readily available in the public
domain for purposes of ....
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124080#124080
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| Subject: | Temporary Removal from the List |
Matt Dralle,
I tried sending this to you through the "Subscribe/ Unsubscribe" address but
it was returned.
I'm subscribed to both the Realtime and Digest Zenith Lists. I will not have
access to my computer for the time period of July 19 through Aug. 21, 2007.
I don't want to get on your "bad guy list" for overfilled mailbox.
So my question is, what is the best way to be TEMPORILY be removed from the
Zenith list?
Do I need to follow the Subscribe/Unsubscribe Instructions or do you have
some kind of temporary discontinued list?
do not archive
Jim Hoak at: planejim@bellsouth.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Temporary Removal from the List |
Jim,
The subscription page is your best bet. Subscription/Unsubscription takes on a
a couple of minutes and can be considered realtime. The URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List Admin
At 08:37 AM 7/16/2007 Monday, you wrote:
>
>Matt Dralle,
>
>I tried sending this to you through the "Subscribe/ Unsubscribe" address but it
was returned.
>
>I'm subscribed to both the Realtime and Digest Zenith Lists. I will not have access
to my computer for the time period of July 19 through Aug. 21, 2007. I don't
want to get on your "bad guy list" for overfilled mailbox.
>
>So my question is, what is the best way to be TEMPORILY be removed from the Zenith
list?
>
>Do I need to follow the Subscribe/Unsubscribe Instructions or do you have some
kind of temporary discontinued list?
>
>do not archive
>
>Jim Hoak at: planejim@bellsouth.net
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: First flight... not so good |
----- Original Message -----
From: "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:06 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First flight... not so good
>
> Here's the story, with pilots name, etc.
>
> http://www.bakersfield.com/102/story/188975.html
>
> I hate it when people doctor stuff, that's readily available in the public
> domain for purposes of ....
>
You seem to have trailed off in your statement about "for purposes of..."
What exactly do you believe the purpose was?
I have removed the offending photos.
Rick Pitcher
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: LRI Probe position |
Tommy:
I assume you are speaking of the LRI that Al Mojzisik sells. The
instruction I received indicates that "the forward side of the probe
is measured at a 50-degree angle to the mounting plate or wing bottom
skin." I mounted mine at the wing tip so that the inspection plate
to adjust the LRI can also serve to service the wing tip light should
that ever be necessary. Al's instructions go on as to adjusting the
LRI after the flight.
Stan
N701VG (Pending)
On Jul 13, 2007, at 8:22 PM, Tommy Walker wrote:
> <twalker@cableone.net>
>
> Listers,
>
> I got my my LRI probe installed on my 701.
>
> I am wondering what degree angle I should set the probe at for
> initial testing. The probe is located at about the spar line on
> the wing (depending on the degrees i set for the angle of attack).
>
> Any ideas about an initial degree setting would be appreciated.
>
> IF:
>
> 1. I get finished by July 26
>
> 2. The plane passes the DAR inspection
>
> 3. I get current and a BFR
>
> 4. I get at least an hour in a 701 (insurance)
>
> 5. I will take the first flight in August....
>
> Hey, it could happen....
>
> Tommy Walker in Alabama
>
> --------
> Tommy Walker
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123714#123714
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: First flight... not so good |
for purposes of ...
Beats hell out of me? Why doctor the photos?????
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124115#124115
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: First flight... not so good |
Guys I for one love to start a good Flame on here from time to time but
asking about the N number was just to make sure the plane had been inspected and
was legal to fly. Some take their bird into the air before inspection and I
was hoping this wasn't one of them. I thank him for the photo's and don't
really care that the N number was blocked out. He wasn't trying to hide it he
was
simply respecting the privacy of the owner, it isn't his place to post the N
number that is for the news and the FAA. I think we are missing the bigger
picture here. The plane hit the roof, broke the main gear off, flipped over and
crushed the turtle deck of a 68 year old pilot that more than likely spent 2
to 3 years of his life to build. It is amazing he didn't get killed in it.
And we are gonna bicker about the N number being blocked out. I for one feel
very sorry for anyone that spends that much time to build a dream only to see
it gone in a matter of seconds. I think we need to re think our priorates on
this list. One person even made a joke about it. rating the landing a 5 WTF.
If I lived in California I would offer help in any way I could to help this
man get flying again but I don't but if he is a list member or someone knows
him I do have some extra parts I would gladly give him as I'm sure many others
on this list would.
I'm sorry for the rant but it just made me sick when I saw the plane and
then the focus of the discussion afterwards.
Jeff
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: First flight... not so good |
First, I think it was amazing luck that the pilot survived. I wish him well but
would like engine he had in it and how his fuel system was set up.
Second, looking at the FAA registration database it shows the registration for
that "602HDS" was dated 7/2/2004.
And last, it looks like Google has shut off there automatic pointer for N numbers.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124129#124129
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Canadian Pricing of Kits |
Not a problem Mark. I dont know how you find time to build, run Can-Zac and answer
email!!
Thanks also for the info on the rivets a few weeks back when I was in Toronto.
Us builders are going to really benefit from the strength of the Canadian dollar!!!
Keep up the great work, but dont spread yourself too thin!!!
Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124130#124130
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| Subject: | Re: panel access |
Soon I too will start the panel on my 701. Long arms and legs plus old
age will require easier access. On the 701 the windshield is above in
the physical way but one can see and reach around, either under or over
the panel. An access panel on top could be covered if the workmanship
was unacceptable. What did you make of the macsmachine site? What type
of fasteners would be best? I'm sure many others on the list have some
good ideas.
Mil
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: First flight... not so good |
I second that Jeff! Far too often people seem you get upset about
trivial things and respond. My heart goes out to the guy who lost his
dream, it is possible he my never be able to accomplish it now for many
different reasons. I view the purpose of this list as a great resource
for information from people with the same passion and more importantly,
encouragement. If anybody needs encouragement now it is the gentlemen
that lost his plane, I for one hope and pray he is able to dust his self
off and go right back at it.
Clyde Barcus
601 XL, Continental Powered
Wings, Tail & Engine Complete
Working on Fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: First flight... not so good
Guys I for one love to start a good Flame on here from time to time
but asking about the N number was just to make sure the plane had been
inspected and was legal to fly. Some take their bird into the air before
inspection and I was hoping this wasn't one of them. I thank him for the
photo's and don't really care that the N number was blocked out. He
wasn't trying to hide it he was simply respecting the privacy of the
owner, it isn't his place to post the N number that is for the news and
the FAA. I think we are missing the bigger picture here. The plane hit
the roof, broke the main gear off, flipped over and crushed the turtle
deck of a 68 year old pilot that more than likely spent 2 to 3 years of
his life to build. It is amazing he didn't get killed in it. And we are
gonna bicker about the N number being blocked out. I for one feel very
sorry for anyone that spends that much time to build a dream only to see
it gone in a matter of seconds. I think we need to re think our
priorates on this list. One person even made a joke about it. rating the
landing a 5 WTF. If I lived in California I would offer help in any way
I could to help this man get flying again but I don't but if he is a
list member or someone knows him I do have some extra parts I would
gladly give him as I'm sure many others on this list would.
I'm sorry for the rant but it just made me sick when I saw the plane
and then the focus of the discussion afterwards.
Jeff
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.
Message 14
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DO NOT ARCHIVE
Just a question on the 601XL outboard wing is the spar a upside down "U"?
On the 601HD all wing spars are "I" shape. Thanks. Jerry of GA
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Spar |
Not 100% sure what you are asking but here is a pretty good view of the spar.
http://zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/design-wings.html
You can also follow the link to my site there are quite a few photos there.
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com wrote:
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Just a question on the 601XL outboard wing is the spar a upside down "U"?
On the 601HD all wing spars are "I" shape. Thanks. Jerry of GA
>
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124142#124142
Message 16
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| Subject: | Corvair engine for sale |
Guys,
My good friend Doc Mosher told me a few days ago that he wants to sell his
Corvair engine. He just sold the Petenpole kit that was suppose to fly
behind it (or under it). Doc is an AI and his workanship is second to none.
He hasen't advertised it yet but I sure would like to see a fellow 601
builder have it. EAA used it for a while as a display while he was working
on his plane. I have always been one who loves Corvair engines, and I
wouldn't hesitate to fly behind one for a moment, especially his! His name
is Don "Doc" Mosher, and you can call him at 920-727-1534 or E-mail him at
docshop@tds.net. He lives north of Oshkosh so if you are coming this way for
the convention you can take it home! Tell him Joe told you to call!
Joe in Oshkosh
P.S. I have a housefull of guests this year but I will always be home in the
evenings. If anyone wants to stop and see my project, give me a call when
you are in Oshkosh. 920-237-1450. I am 1 1/2 miles north of Wittman Field.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Spar |
In a message dated 7/16/2007 4:03:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
wr.giacona@suddenlink.net writes:
www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Thanks Gig,for the Zenith's web site. Looks like the wing web is an "I"
beam. Jerry of GA
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
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| Subject: | Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Hi everyone,
I'm a new list member, my name is Randy and I live in Alberta, Canada. I was just
wondering if it's realistic for a non-pilot to build a CH-701.
I've always been interested in airplanes and aviation, and I started my private
pilot licence training in 2005. I've got about 25 hours in a C172 and a Citabria.
At that point I was in a major snowmobile accident and had to put my flight
training on hold. I was off work and unable to walk for quite a while. In the
mean time I lost my job because of my injuries, and my finances took a big
hit.
I'm finally to the point of being healthy enough to start flying again, but now
I can't really afford it. I had to relocate to find another job, and now my mortgage
is bigger and my wages are smaller, and the cost of flight training is
higher in the area I am in (a C152 is $110/hr solo and $158/hr dual.)
I can only afford to commit maybe a few hundred dollars a month to aviation, so
I was thinking of building a CH-701 from plans, then when the plane is complete
I would get either an ultralight permit or rec pilot permit to fly it. (Canadian
ultralight rules are different than the US rules, a CH-701 can be flown
in Canada with an ultralight permit, and the ultralight permit is a lot cheaper
than a PPL.) I'd prefer a CH-801 but they don't sell plans for those. It might
take me 5 or 10 years to build the plane, but then I'd have my own plane that
I am intimately familiar with and it would be cheaper to maintain and operate
than say a C150. For an engine I would look for a used Rotax 912.
I've got quite a few metal working tools already, and I have some metal working
and fabrication experience from snowmobiles. I've got a garage to work in as
well.
My plan would be to budget maybe $400 a month to the project, and I would split
it up so that $200 would go into the airframe and $200 would go into the engine/instruments
fund.
The budget for the first few months would go into buying plans, buying a couple
of the "Homebuilt Help" DVD's, building a work table, building a Dave Clay brake,
buying some Clecoes and basic tools, and then in a few months I'd be ready
to buy some rivets and aluminum and get to building.
My questions are:
Is this a realistic plan?
Would 5 to 10 years be a realistic estimate of build time for a first timer building
from plans?
What would the finished costs be of a plans built CH-701 with a used 912 and basic
VFR instruments?
Is there somewhere (preferably in Canada) that I could go to get some dual time
and maybe even an ultralight permit in a CH-701?
Thanks in advance for all the help,
Randy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124160#124160
Message 19
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| Subject: | Please let it go |
Good lord! Am I in the Twilight Zone? None of this makes any sense to me.
The guy was trying to protect the anonymity of a fellow builder. I'm sure he
knew the information would come out sooner or later, but didn't want to be
the one to "out" him, so to speak. What exactly is the problem with that?
Why give him grief over it in the first place? It sounds as if you are
trying to imply that he had an ulterior motive (other than the one he has
already stated) for doing so. I'm sorry to add to the string of ridiculous
emails on the subject, but this has gone on for days and enough is enough. I
am NOT objecting on the basis of the volume of emails, I am objecting on the
basis that I don't like seeing people ridiculed for such trivial reasons.
Seems like everyone is walking around with chips on their sholders. I
thought the homebuilding community was supposed to be a place for comradery
and support. Am I wrong? Or is this just at function of the internet? Would
you guys act this way in a personal setting?
Ps. The above questions are rhetorical, please DON'T answer them.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n85ae
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 12:35 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First flight... not so good
for purposes of ...
Beats hell out of me? Why doctor the photos?????
Jeff
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Please let it go |
HERE, HEAR!
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
If that is not a realistic plan I'm in big trouble. I'm a non-pilog building a
Zodiac 601XL from plans, at least you have 25 hours I have none. I was 11 years
old when I flew in a GA aircraft for the first and only time in my life (a cessna
120). I have estimated 7 years for my project and I started 1 year ago.
I'm planning to go to flight school when the project is 1 or 2 years away from
completion, starting now will take time away from building.
As for cost, you couldl save several thowsands if you consider the Corvair option.
By the time you finish there will be plenty of 701/Corvair already flying
to give you some level of confidence in the combination.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
AB_Summit <rengler@telus.net> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'm a new list member, my name is Randy and I live in Alberta, Canada. I was just
wondering if it's realistic for a non-pilot to build a CH-701.
I've always been interested in airplanes and aviation, and I started my private
pilot licence training in 2005. I've got about 25 hours in a C172 and a Citabria.
At that point I was in a major snowmobile accident and had to put my flight
training on hold. I was off work and unable to walk for quite a while. In the
mean time I lost my job because of my injuries, and my finances took a big
hit.
I'm finally to the point of being healthy enough to start flying again, but now
I can't really afford it. I had to relocate to find another job, and now my mortgage
is bigger and my wages are smaller, and the cost of flight training is
higher in the area I am in (a C152 is $110/hr solo and $158/hr dual.)
I can only afford to commit maybe a few hundred dollars a month to aviation, so
I was thinking of building a CH-701 from plans, then when the plane is complete
I would get either an ultralight permit or rec pilot permit to fly it. (Canadian
ultralight rules are different than the US rules, a CH-701 can be flown
in Canada with an ultralight permit, and the ultralight permit is a lot cheaper
than a PPL.) I'd prefer a CH-801 but they don't sell plans for those. It might
take me 5 or 10 years to build the plane, but then I'd have my own plane that
I am intimately familiar with and it would be cheaper to maintain and operate
than say a C150. For an engine I would look for a used Rotax 912.
I've got quite a few metal working tools already, and I have some metal working
and fabrication experience from snowmobiles. I've got a garage to work in as
well.
My plan would be to budget maybe $400 a month to the project, and I would split
it up so that $200 would go into the airframe and $200 would go into the engine/instruments
fund.
The budget for the first few months would go into buying plans, buying a couple
of the "Homebuilt Help" DVD's, building a work table, building a Dave Clay brake,
buying some Clecoes and basic tools, and then in a few months I'd be ready
to buy some rivets and aluminum and get to building.
My questions are:
Is this a realistic plan?
Would 5 to 10 years be a realistic estimate of build time for a first timer building
from plans?
What would the finished costs be of a plans built CH-701 with a used 912 and basic
VFR instruments?
Is there somewhere (preferably in Canada) that I could go to get some dual time
and maybe even an ultralight permit in a CH-701?
Thanks in advance for all the help,
Randy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124160#124160
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: First flight... not so good |
Actually, the usual practice is to blur or black out the identifying
marks. That would indicate that the plane actually had an N number
and that it was deliberately obscured. I can understand that someone
might not want to publish the N number prematurely and have no
problem with that.
When I saw the photos, my first thought was "How the heck did he walk
away from that?" My second thought was "What was he doing flying that
plane without proper markings? Was this an 'accidental' first
flight?" Blurred out markings would have at least avoided some
confusion.
On Jul 15, 2007, at 5:34 PM, raymondj wrote:
> <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
>
> Greetings Mr. Pitcher,
>
> When posting doctored images, please anotate them as such to
> prevent any confusion between them and actual photographs.
>
> I believe that the "photos" you posted offer definitive proof
> that a plane (which had an N#) hit a house.
>
>
>>
>> Yeah, I airbrushed the N-numbers off of the tail before posting
>> the pix. No need to identify the owner at this time. I'm sure
>> it'll all come out in an NTSB review sometime soon.
>> I'll post more info if something definitive comes up.
>>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Yes!
I am sort of in the same boat.
I am very close to soloing in a Warrior and have started construction on my
XLVair. I am either going to get my sport pilot or keep going until I get
my PP. If SP I can fly off my phase 1 time and then use my plane to finish
up my PP.
I am building from plans and am gathering parts to close my engine case up.
I parted out a motorcycle to get the plans and save every penny I can for
the next need. I seem to spend more time trying to find the things I need
than building. Hopefully that will reverse before to long.
Never give up on your dreams. Every day you do something is one day closer
than before. I may take 5+ years to finish this thing up, but that does not
seem to matter much to me. Lots seems to get in the way with a family and a
job, but I am having a blast.
Happy building and flying,
Matt in Katy TX
XLVair (1%)
Hi everyone,
I'm a new list member, my name is Randy and I live in Alberta, Canada. I was
just wondering if it's realistic for a non-pilot to build a CH-701.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Please let it go |
Kevin--My guess is that a lot more people feel exactly
the way you do about this, than the alternative. We
just don't say it as eloquently. Well said.
Do Not Archive
--- kevinbonds <kevinbonds@comcast.net> wrote:
> <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
>
> Good lord! Am I in the Twilight Zone? None of this
> makes any sense to me.
> The guy was trying to protect the anonymity of a
> fellow builder. I'm sure he
> knew the information would come out sooner or later,
> but didn't want to be
> the one to "out" him, so to speak. What exactly is
> the problem with that?
> Why give him grief over it in the first place? It
> sounds as if you are
> trying to imply that he had an ulterior motive
> (other than the one he has
> already stated) for doing so. I'm sorry to add to
> the string of ridiculous
> emails on the subject, but this has gone on for days
> and enough is enough. I
> am NOT objecting on the basis of the volume of
> emails, I am objecting on the
> basis that I don't like seeing people ridiculed for
> such trivial reasons.
> Seems like everyone is walking around with chips on
> their sholders. I
> thought the homebuilding community was supposed to
> be a place for comradery
> and support. Am I wrong? Or is this just at function
> of the internet? Would
> you guys act this way in a personal setting?
>
> Ps. The above questions are rhetorical, please DON'T
> answer them.
>
> Kevin Bonds
>
> Nashville TN
>
>
> 601XL Plans building.
>
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
>
> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of n85ae
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 12:35 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First flight... not so
> good
>
> <n85ae@yahoo.com>
>
> for purposes of ...
>
> Beats hell out of me? Why doctor the photos?????
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: First flight... not so good |
on the subject on blacking out or blurring the numbers.... the guys who have questioned
it.... need to go back on their meds. Do you understand that some guy
just crashed his plane? WHo gives a flying F___ on whether the numbers are
blacked out. Forest through the trees guys.
unbelievable.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>Sent: Jul 16, 2007 8:01 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: First flight... not so good
>
>Actually, the usual practice is to blur or black out the identifying
>marks. That would indicate that the plane actually had an N number
>and that it was deliberately obscured. I can understand that someone
>might not want to publish the N number prematurely and have no
>problem with that.
>
>When I saw the photos, my first thought was "How the heck did he walk
>away from that?" My second thought was "What was he doing flying that
>plane without proper markings? Was this an 'accidental' first
>flight?" Blurred out markings would have at least avoided some
>confusion.
>
>On Jul 15, 2007, at 5:34 PM, raymondj wrote:
>
>> <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
>>
>> Greetings Mr. Pitcher,
>>
>> When posting doctored images, please anotate them as such to
>> prevent any confusion between them and actual photographs.
>>
>> I believe that the "photos" you posted offer definitive proof
>> that a plane (which had an N#) hit a house.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, I airbrushed the N-numbers off of the tail before posting
>>> the pix. No need to identify the owner at this time. I'm sure
>>> it'll all come out in an NTSB review sometime soon.
>>> I'll post more info if something definitive comes up.
>>>
>
>
>--
>Bryan Martin
>N61BM, CH 601 XL,
>RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
>do not archive.
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
>
>I am sort of in the same boat.
>
>I am very close to soloing in a Warrior and have started construction on my
>XLVair.
> I was just wondering if it's realistic for a non-pilot to build a CH-701.
>-
Someone needs to rain on this parade a little, so I guess I will volunteer.
Building a plane and flying are almost completely unrelated. The
skill set needed for building is completely different from the skills
needed for flying. On that level there is no reason a builder needs
to be a pilot.
The problem comes in when a non-pilot decides to own an
airplane. This applies just as much to building as it does to buying
one off the airplane sales lot.
I think it is important for an airplane owner to be really familiar
with airplanes before deciding to buy one. Being a pilot is the
normal way to do this. After flying an assortment of different
planes a pilot will develop a taste for one kind or another. After
this kind of experience he is in an informed position to pick an
airplane to own.
Each airplane design is significantly different from every other
plane out there. Some planes are fast cross country machines while
others are slow and easy to fly planes suitable for local joy riding
and the occasional short cross country for a $100 hamburger. These
are completely different beasts. Without any flying experience it is
hard for me to imagine how a person can choose which kind he prefers.
The exception to this rule is when a potential airplane owner needs
practical air transportation for either business or possibly personal
use. In this case, a commercially built certified plane will be a
much better choice than any home built design. Also a commercial
pilot license with instrument rating is appropriate for this kind of
flying. While this kind of pilot can be hired for the purpose, it is
also quite practical for most people to get this level of training in
a few years.
For those people considering building a plane without any flying
experience, all I can say is I think this is ill advised. It would
make a lot more sense to me for these folks to go get some
instruction and possibly a license before jumping into ownership
and/or building.
Paul
XL fuselage
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 brakes |
You could call Matco at 801-486-7574 or check their website at www.matcomfg.com. I have talked to them a couple times regarding my 701. They are very friendly and extremely helpful. They've pointed out a few important brake tolerances not specified by ZAC.
Dan Ginty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124237#124237
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| Subject: | 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation |
701 builders,
I'm in the process of installing the control stick and pitch control rod, but I'm
a little worried about pitch deflection limits. According to some calculations
(which may be incorrect), the pitch control rod will need to move forward
and aft 120mm to allow the required elevator deflections of 32-35 up to 28-30
degrees down.
There is no way this will happen in my plane. The pitch control rod will bind
against the bottom cutout in the seat front, or the control stick will hit the
top of the seat front. I filed the bottom cutout in the seat front, but I'm
still only getting about 80mm movement. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Dan Ginty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124240#124240
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Well first Randy, welcome to the group. Secondly, my
opinions expressed here will be from a Canadian
perspective (if that makes a difference). Since the
CH-701 fits our Ultralight regulations so well, that
is an economical way to get into aviation. I don't
know of any 701s being used for flight training in
western Canada so I can't help you there. Although I
theoretically might be there at some point since I'm a
UL instructor and am building a 701.
As for the cost, that depends on how you set your
plane up. The biggest single expense will be the 912
engine. Bob Robertson in St. Albert, AB would be a
good place to start to get a good deal on a used 912.
He is a really good guy and might know of some flight
training options out your way too. Realistically, if
you can get a good deal on the engine it is likely you
can build for somewhere in the $20,000 to $25,000.
Again, it really depends on how much the engine costs.
A couple of guys have mentioned using the Corvair as
an economical engine choice. It is an excellent
economical engine option for the 601, the designer
(Chris Heintz) has specifically said (his mouth to my
ears) the Corvair engine is too heavy for the 701.
That does not mean it will not work but it is not a
bolt on installation that the 912 engine is. Yes,
I'll put my aspestose undies now cause I'll likely get
flamed for that statement.
What you will likely find is that there will be as
many opinions from this list as there are members.
That is one of wonderful things about expirimental
aviation.
As for build time, it depends on how much time you can
commit to the project. I'm scratch building and am
about 1.25 yrs into the build. I have the fuse on the
gear, tail feathers built but not fully mounted.
Spars built and ribs clecoed to make the wing
skeleton. I figure, realistically, sometime next
summer I'll be ready for flight.
Best of luck with your potential project
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada
> My questions are:
>
> Is this a realistic plan?
> Would 5 to 10 years be a realistic estimate of build
> time for a first timer building from plans?
> What would the finished costs be of a plans built
> CH-701 with a used 912 and basic VFR instruments?
> Is there somewhere (preferably in Canada) that I
> could go to get some dual time and maybe even an
> ultralight permit in a CH-701?
>
> Thanks in advance for all the help,
> Randy
>
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Message 30
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| Subject: | Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Sorry group, I got long winded again.
Hi Randy, I am sure by now you have read Matt's and Paul's differing
responses, both have valaid points from their own perspective.
For me my opinion is closer to Matt's, I see day in and day out that
weither or not youre a pilot, both interested prospective builders ask
the same questions. Both parties are interested in the specs and how it
handles. Both are affected by appearance and building techniques. In
other words, I have found that in most cases both types tend to do their
homework. The only difference I see is how much I may have to explain to
someone, it is easy to judge in the first few seconds if I have to
explain what deheidral is or not. Then go from there, Preference be
known, I typically love it when the interested party has their spouce
along with them. Though some spouces are pilots ( very easy to spot)
most are not and quite a few are being dragged to look at all the
planes. This allows me a chance to explain everything to the spouce even
if the husband is a pilot and oftentimes I can answer questions that
someone is afraid to ask( afraid to look as if they are asking a dumb
question) ( for the record there is no such thing in my books, if you
don't know it then please ask).
SO is not being a pilot a bad thing, not if your interested in a Zenith
product, you all know our planes are docile enough to learn on and also
so much fun that you will not outgrow redily. I know everyone associated
with Zenith Kit aircrafts and I believe that each and every one involved
is of the highest moral values. In fact not a single one of us is a
salesman, we are all builders or flyers. Each and every one involved in
Zenith aircraft that you see at the shows is working on planes when not
at the shows.
Many have built a Zenith aircraft and upon completion quite a few have
even learned to fly in there very own plane. Many pilots have chosen to
go the kiit aircraft route so they could afford to fly a lot more in a
brand new plane instead of flyign the minium per year to keep their
license in a 20-40 year old plane. However most pilots don't fly while
buildign and need re-currency training when ready to fly again.
No, I don't think it matters which way you proceed, go for the building
and enjoy every aspect it has to offer. When it is complete then you are
ready to transition into your new hobby of flying ! this approach makes
more sense to me personally. To go out and spend 60hrs gettign a license
just so you can mak ethe same decision on which plane is better for you
that I believe you would have made before, I feel is a bit of a waste.
Truly after you have built your own plane, if you desire a different
model then I believe you didn't make a mistake the first time, you just
enjoyed the building process too much and wish to do it again. However,
now you have a brand new plane to fly until it is time for your engine
and panel in your next project.
Jump in, do your research, ask every question you can think of. Check
out the companys background and ethics. But do it, don't wait till you
have this ready or that ready, you will always find excuses to do
something tomorrow. When tomorrow finally comes, will you look back and
smile and tell your stories? Or will you rock and stew with your
regrets.
That is my only sales pitch, if you want to fly ASAP buy a QBK if you
want to fly after a building adventure go with a kit. IF you can't
afford it then just buy the plans and build what you can until you can
afford a kit or you finished your plane from scratch. Just don't come up
with excuses to put it off, I truly get saddened when I see an old timer
come up to me in their electric scooters and tell me how sorry they are
they never started. Don't let anyone tell you you can't or shouldn't do
something. YOU can and you should if you want to.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
Hi everyone,
I'm a new list member, my name is Randy and I live in Alberta, Canada. I
was just wondering if it's realistic for a non-pilot to build a CH-701.
I've always been interested in airplanes and aviation, and I started my
private pilot licence training in 2005. I've got about 25 hours in a
C172 and a Citabria. At that point I was in a major snowmobile accident
and had to put my flight training on hold. I was off work and unable to
walk for quite a while. In the mean time I lost my job because of my
injuries, and my finances took a big hit.
I'm finally to the point of being healthy enough to start flying again,
but now I can't really afford it. I had to relocate to find another job,
and now my mortgage is bigger and my wages are smaller, and the cost of
flight training is higher in the area I am in (a C152 is $110/hr solo
and $158/hr dual.)
I can only afford to commit maybe a few hundred dollars a month to
aviation, so I was thinking of building a CH-701 from plans, then when
the plane is complete I would get either an ultralight permit or rec
pilot permit to fly it. (Canadian ultralight rules are different than
the US rules, a CH-701 can be flown in Canada with an ultralight permit,
and the ultralight permit is a lot cheaper than a PPL.) I'd prefer a
CH-801 but they don't sell plans for those. It might take me 5 or 10
years to build the plane, but then I'd have my own plane that I am
intimately familiar with and it would be cheaper to maintain and operate
than say a C150. For an engine I would look for a used Rotax 912.
I've got quite a few metal working tools already, and I have some metal
working and fabrication experience from snowmobiles. I've got a garage
to work in as well.
My plan would be to budget maybe $400 a month to the project, and I
would split it up so that $200 would go into the airframe and $200 would
go into the engine/instruments fund.
The budget for the first few months would go into buying plans, buying a
couple of the "Homebuilt Help" DVD's, building a work table, building a
Dave Clay brake, buying some Clecoes and basic tools, and then in a few
months I'd be ready to buy some rivets and aluminum and get to building.
My questions are:
Is this a realistic plan?
Would 5 to 10 years be a realistic estimate of build time for a first
timer building from plans?
What would the finished costs be of a plans built CH-701 with a used 912
and basic VFR instruments?
Is there somewhere (preferably in Canada) that I could go to get some
dual time and maybe even an ultralight permit in a CH-701?
Thanks in advance for all the help,
Randy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124160#124160
7/15/2007 2:21 PM
7/15/2007 2:21 PM
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation |
Hi Dan,
Keep filing away at the bottom lip of the seat support (where the rod is
touching). That oblong hole you made per plans is just a starting point (or
maybe thats a new factory cutout in the new kits?) Once filed, that rod
should move as far back as you would like w/o touching a thing. Hope this
is makes sense. Good luck!
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "txpilot" <djg7@houston.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 9:39 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation
>
> 701 builders,
>
> I'm in the process of installing the control stick and pitch control rod,
> but I'm a little worried about pitch deflection limits. According to some
> calculations (which may be incorrect), the pitch control rod will need to
> move forward and aft 120mm to allow the required elevator deflections of
> 32-35 up to 28-30 degrees down.
>
> There is no way this will happen in my plane. The pitch control rod will
> bind against the bottom cutout in the seat front, or the control stick
> will hit the top of the seat front. I filed the bottom cutout in the seat
> front, but I'm still only getting about 80mm movement. Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan Ginty
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Sorry Again group the last letter was sent without me reading it for
spelling or grammer. I look at the keys when I type not the screen so
errors creep in. I have corrected the one below
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
Sorry group, I got long winded again.
Hi Randy, I am sure by now you have read Matt's and Paul's differing
responses both have valid points from their own perspective.
For me my opinion is closer to Matt's, I see day in and day out that
weather or not you are a pilot, both interested prospective builders ask
the same questions. Both parties are interested in the specs and how it
handles. Both are affected by appearance and building techniques. In
other words, I have found that in most cases both types tend to do their
homework. The only difference I see is how much I may have to explain to
someone, it is easy to judge in the first few seconds if I have to
explain what dihedral is or not. Then go from there, Preference be
known, I typically love it when the interested party has their spouse
along with them. Though some spouses are pilots (very easy to spot) most
are not and quite a few are being dragged to look at all the planes.
This allows me a chance to explain everything to the spouse even if the
husband is a pilot and oftentimes I can answer questions that someone is
afraid to ask( afraid to look as if they are asking a dumb question) (
for the record there is no such thing in my books, if you don't know it
then please ask).
SO is not being a pilot a bad thing, not if your interested in a Zenith
product, you all know our planes are docile enough to learn on and also
so much fun that you will not outgrow readily. I know everyone
associated with Zenith Kit aircrafts and I believe that each and every
one involved is of the highest moral values. In fact not a single one of
us is a salesman, we are all builders or flyers. Each and every one
involved in Zenith aircraft that you see at the shows is working on
planes when not at the shows.
Many have built a Zenith aircraft and upon completion quite a few have
even learned to fly in there very own plane. Many pilots have chosen to
go the kit aircraft route so they could afford to fly a lot more in a
brand new plane instead of flying the minimum per year to keep their
license in a 20-40 year old plane. However, most pilots do not fly while
building and need re-currency training when ready to fly again.
No, I don't think it matters which way you proceed, go for the building
and enjoy every aspect it has to offer. When it is complete then you are
ready to transition into your new hobby of flying ! this approach makes
more sense to me personally. To go out and spend 60hrs getting a license
just so you can make the same decision on which plane is better for you
that I believe you would have made before, I feel is a bit of a waste.
Truly after you have built your own plane, if you desire a different
model then I believe you didn't make a mistake the first time, you just
enjoyed the building process too much and wish to do it again. However,
now you have a brand new plane to fly until it is time for your engine
and panel in your next project.
Jump in, do your research, ask every question you can think of. Check
out the company's background and ethics. But do it, don't wait till you
have this ready or that ready, you will always find excuses to do
something tomorrow. When tomorrow finally comes, will you look back and
smile and tell your stories? Or will you rock and stew with your
regrets.
That is my only sales pitch, if you want to fly ASAP buy a QBK if you
want to fly after a building adventure go with a kit. IF you can't
afford it then just buy the plans and build what you can until you can
afford a kit or you finished your plane from scratch. Just don't come up
with excuses to put it off, I truly get saddened when I see an old timer
come up to me in their electric scooters and tell me how sorry they are
they never started. Do not let anyone tell you cannot or should not do
something. YOU can and you should if you want to.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
Hi everyone,
I'm a new list member, my name is Randy and I live in Alberta, Canada. I
was just wondering if it's realistic for a non-pilot to build a CH-701.
I've always been interested in airplanes and aviation, and I started my
private pilot licence training in 2005. I've got about 25 hours in a
C172 and a Citabria. At that point I was in a major snowmobile accident
and had to put my flight training on hold. I was off work and unable to
walk for quite a while. In the mean time I lost my job because of my
injuries, and my finances took a big hit.
I'm finally to the point of being healthy enough to start flying again,
but now I can't really afford it. I had to relocate to find another job,
and now my mortgage is bigger and my wages are smaller, and the cost of
flight training is higher in the area I am in (a C152 is $110/hr solo
and $158/hr dual.)
I can only afford to commit maybe a few hundred dollars a month to
aviation, so I was thinking of building a CH-701 from plans, then when
the plane is complete I would get either an ultralight permit or rec
pilot permit to fly it. (Canadian ultralight rules are different than
the US rules, a CH-701 can be flown in Canada with an ultralight permit,
and the ultralight permit is a lot cheaper than a PPL.) I'd prefer a
CH-801 but they don't sell plans for those. It might take me 5 or 10
years to build the plane, but then I'd have my own plane that I am
intimately familiar with and it would be cheaper to maintain and operate
than say a C150. For an engine I would look for a used Rotax 912.
I've got quite a few metal working tools already, and I have some metal
working and fabrication experience from snowmobiles. I've got a garage
to work in as well.
My plan would be to budget maybe $400 a month to the project, and I
would split it up so that $200 would go into the airframe and $200 would
go into the engine/instruments fund.
The budget for the first few months would go into buying plans, buying a
couple of the "Homebuilt Help" DVD's, building a work table, building a
Dave Clay brake, buying some Clecoes and basic tools, and then in a few
months I'd be ready to buy some rivets and aluminum and get to building.
My questions are:
Is this a realistic plan?
Would 5 to 10 years be a realistic estimate of build time for a first
timer building from plans?
What would the finished costs be of a plans built CH-701 with a used 912
and basic VFR instruments?
Is there somewhere (preferably in Canada) that I could go to get some
dual time and maybe even an ultralight permit in a CH-701?
Thanks in advance for all the help,
Randy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124160#124160
7/15/2007 2:21 PM
7/15/2007 2:21 PM
7/15/2007 2:21 PM
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation |
Dan,
I am getting a max of 140mm of control rod movement (no cables attached to
horn when measured)
> 701 builders,
>
> I'm in the process of installing the control stick and pitch control rod,
> but I'm a little worried about
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: First flight... not so good |
Amen and Amen. I was not offended that the N Number was remove for privacy
sake!!!!
Bob Spudis
In a message dated 7/16/2007 1:40:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Afterfxllc@aol.com writes:
Guys I for one love to start a good Flame on here from time to time but
asking about the N number was just to make sure the plane had been inspected and
was legal to fly. Some take their bird into the air before inspection and I
was hoping this wasn't one of them. I thank him for the photo's and don't
really care that the N number was blocked out. He wasn't trying to hide it he
was
simply respecting the privacy of the owner, it isn't his place to post the N
number that is for the news and the FAA. I think we are missing the bigger
picture here.
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 35
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| Subject: | Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Well said Mark. Sorry group for not trimming his message, but I couldn't
decide which to trim...
My only additional thought: Orville and Wilbur only needed the dream.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ZodieRocket
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:18 PM
Subject: FW: Zenith-List: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into
aviation?
Sorry Again group the last letter was sent without me reading it for
spelling or grammer. I look at the keys when I type not the screen so
errors creep in. I have corrected the one below
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
Sorry group, I got long winded again.
Hi Randy, I am sure by now you have read Matt's and Paul's differing
responses both have valid points from their own perspective.
For me my opinion is closer to Matt's, I see day in and day out that
weather or not you are a pilot, both interested prospective builders ask
the same questions. Both parties are interested in the specs and how it
handles. Both are affected by appearance and building techniques. In
other words, I have found that in most cases both types tend to do their
homework. The only difference I see is how much I may have to explain to
someone, it is easy to judge in the first few seconds if I have to
explain what dihedral is or not. Then go from there, Preference be
known, I typically love it when the interested party has their spouse
along with them. Though some spouses are pilots (very easy to spot) most
are not and quite a few are being dragged to look at all the planes.
This allows me a chance to explain everything to the spouse even if the
husband is a pilot and oftentimes I can answer questions that someone is
afraid to ask( afraid to look as if they are asking a dumb question) (
for the record there is no such thing in my books, if you don't know it
then please ask).
SO is not being a pilot a bad thing, not if your interested in a Zenith
product, you all know our planes are docile enough to learn on and also
so much fun that you will not outgrow readily. I know everyone
associated with Zenith Kit aircrafts and I believe that each and every
one involved is of the highest moral values. In fact not a single one of
us is a salesman, we are all builders or flyers. Each and every one
involved in Zenith aircraft that you see at the shows is working on
planes when not at the shows.
Many have built a Zenith aircraft and upon completion quite a few have
even learned to fly in there very own plane. Many pilots have chosen to
go the kit aircraft route so they could afford to fly a lot more in a
brand new plane instead of flying the minimum per year to keep their
license in a 20-40 year old plane. However, most pilots do not fly while
building and need re-currency training when ready to fly again.
No, I don't think it matters which way you proceed, go for the building
and enjoy every aspect it has to offer. When it is complete then you are
ready to transition into your new hobby of flying ! this approach makes
more sense to me personally. To go out and spend 60hrs getting a license
just so you can make the same decision on which plane is better for you
that I believe you would have made before, I feel is a bit of a waste.
Truly after you have built your own plane, if you desire a different
model then I believe you didn't make a mistake the first time, you just
enjoyed the building process too much and wish to do it again. However,
now you have a brand new plane to fly until it is time for your engine
and panel in your next project.
Jump in, do your research, ask every question you can think of. Check
out the company's background and ethics. But do it, don't wait till you
have this ready or that ready, you will always find excuses to do
something tomorrow. When tomorrow finally comes, will you look back and
smile and tell your stories? Or will you rock and stew with your
regrets.
That is my only sales pitch, if you want to fly ASAP buy a QBK if you
want to fly after a building adventure go with a kit. IF you can't
afford it then just buy the plans and build what you can until you can
afford a kit or you finished your plane from scratch. Just don't come up
with excuses to put it off, I truly get saddened when I see an old timer
come up to me in their electric scooters and tell me how sorry they are
they never started. Do not let anyone tell you cannot or should not do
something. YOU can and you should if you want to.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
Hi everyone,
I'm a new list member, my name is Randy and I live in Alberta, Canada. I
was just wondering if it's realistic for a non-pilot to build a CH-701.
I've always been interested in airplanes and aviation, and I started my
private pilot licence training in 2005. I've got about 25 hours in a
C172 and a Citabria. At that point I was in a major snowmobile accident
and had to put my flight training on hold. I was off work and unable to
walk for quite a while. In the mean time I lost my job because of my
injuries, and my finances took a big hit.
I'm finally to the point of being healthy enough to start flying again,
but now I can't really afford it. I had to relocate to find another job,
and now my mortgage is bigger and my wages are smaller, and the cost of
flight training is higher in the area I am in (a C152 is $110/hr solo
and $158/hr dual.)
I can only afford to commit maybe a few hundred dollars a month to
aviation, so I was thinking of building a CH-701 from plans, then when
the plane is complete I would get either an ultralight permit or rec
pilot permit to fly it. (Canadian ultralight rules are different than
the US rules, a CH-701 can be flown in Canada with an ultralight permit,
and the ultralight permit is a lot cheaper than a PPL.) I'd prefer a
CH-801 but they don't sell plans for those. It might take me 5 or 10
years to build the plane, but then I'd have my own plane that I am
intimately familiar with and it would be cheaper to maintain and operate
than say a C150. For an engine I would look for a used Rotax 912.
I've got quite a few metal working tools already, and I have some metal
working and fabrication experience from snowmobiles. I've got a garage
to work in as well.
My plan would be to budget maybe $400 a month to the project, and I
would split it up so that $200 would go into the airframe and $200 would
go into the engine/instruments fund.
The budget for the first few months would go into buying plans, buying a
couple of the "Homebuilt Help" DVD's, building a work table, building a
Dave Clay brake, buying some Clecoes and basic tools, and then in a few
months I'd be ready to buy some rivets and aluminum and get to building.
My questions are:
Is this a realistic plan?
Would 5 to 10 years be a realistic estimate of build time for a first
timer building from plans?
What would the finished costs be of a plans built CH-701 with a used 912
and basic VFR instruments?
Is there somewhere (preferably in Canada) that I could go to get some
dual time and maybe even an ultralight permit in a CH-701?
Thanks in advance for all the help,
Randy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124160#124160
7/15/2007 2:21 PM
7/15/2007 2:21 PM
7/15/2007 2:21 PM
Message 36
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| Subject: | Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation? |
Same here. I've got 5 hours in my logbook. Like William, I plan on
finishing/starting training when my project is 1 or 2 years from completion.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Plans building.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Dominguez
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into
aviation?
If that is not a realistic plan I'm in big trouble. I'm a non-pilog building
a Zodiac 601XL from plans, at least you have 25 hours I have none. I was 11
years old when I flew in a GA aircraft for the first and only time in my
life (a cessna 120). I have estimated 7 years for my project and I started 1
year ago.
I'm planning to go to flight school when the project is 1 or 2 years away
from completion, starting now will take time away from building.
Message 37
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| Subject: | William Wynne's Corvair site updated |
Interesting pre-Brodhead/Oshkosh update on William's web site. Aside from
mentioning a new electronic ignition and two new aircraft designs he also
says he is thinking of selling his 3300cc Corvair-powered 601XL tail dragger
to make room for his next project.
www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html
-- Craig
Message 38
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| Subject: | RE: William Wynne's Corvair site updated |
> ... he is thinking of selling his 3300cc Corvair-powered 601XL tail
dragger...
Sorry, make that 3100cc (Jabiru on the brain)
www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html
-- Craig
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