---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/18/07: 43 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:19 AM - Re: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter (Geoff Heap) 2. 04:27 AM - Re: nose gear questions (DaveG601XL) 3. 06:12 AM - Re: nose gear questions (LarryMcFarland) 4. 06:19 AM - 601 XL Materials List (Kevin L. Rupert) 5. 06:39 AM - Re: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter (n85ae) 6. 06:50 AM - Re: 601 XL Materials List (ZodieRocket) 7. 07:08 AM - FW: Leveling (4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons)) 8. 07:24 AM - Re: FW: Leveling (David Brooks) 9. 07:31 AM - Re: FW: Leveling (LarryMcFarland) 10. 07:54 AM - Re: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter (Geoff Heap) 11. 07:56 AM - Re: FW: Leveling (Robert Taylor) 12. 08:51 AM - Re: FW: Leveling (David Downey) 13. 08:54 AM - Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation (txpilot) 14. 08:56 AM - Re: Corvair engine for sale (ashontz) 15. 09:00 AM - Re: FW: Leveling (kevinbonds) 16. 09:00 AM - Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation (Tommy Walker) 17. 09:12 AM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (ashontz) 18. 09:24 AM - Re: FW: Leveling (David Brooks) 19. 09:37 AM - Re: FW: Leveling (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 20. 10:04 AM - Re: FW: Leveling (Gary Boothe) 21. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation (Jon Croke) 22. 11:12 AM - Re: Leveling (DaveG601XL) 23. 11:20 AM - Re: 601 XL Materials List (Craig Payne) 24. 11:26 AM - Re: XL photo guide help () 25. 11:29 AM - Re: nose gear questions () 26. 11:41 AM - Re: FW: Leveling () 27. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Leveling () 28. 12:08 PM - AUTOPILOT (jackandval) 29. 12:21 PM - Re: nose gear questions (R.P.) 30. 12:37 PM - Re: AUTOPILOT (Craig Payne) 31. 12:55 PM - Re: AUTOPILOT (Jaybannist@cs.com) 32. 01:08 PM - Re: 601 XL Materials List (Kevin L. Rupert) 33. 01:25 PM - Re: 601 XL Materials List (Craig Payne) 34. 01:32 PM - Re: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter (n85ae) 35. 02:43 PM - Re: FW: Leveling (David Downey) 36. 03:03 PM - Re: Fuselage Gussets (Peter Chapman) 37. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (Bryan Martin) 38. 04:03 PM - Re: AUTOPILOT (jackandval) 39. 04:12 PM - Re: AUTOPILOT (jackandval) 40. 06:18 PM - Re: nose gear questions (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 41. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation (ZodieRocket) 42. 07:59 PM - Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned (ashontz) 43. 08:21 PM - Re: Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:28 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter From: "Geoff Heap" Doug. I am on my 5th Riveter. I used up 3 over the years from JC Whitney @ $59.00 each. Finally I bought a good one from Grainger for $220.00 (Dayton brand) That lasted about the same time. I went back to the cheap ones. Currently I have Harbor Freight's Cheap model, regularly about $50. I got it on sale for $29. When it This one might see me through whats left to do.....Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124522#124522 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:25 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: nose gear questions From: "DaveG601XL" On both my nose gear and one other builder's in my area, the top stop plate hits the top bearing well before the bottom cross member hits the lower bearing. I believe it is supposed to hit the lower bearing first since this has the centering feature. We both had to add shims between the stop plate and the gear strut. I added just enough to make them hit almost at the same time. Longer bolts also need to be added to make up for the extra grip length. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124523#124523 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:41 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: nose gear questions Hi Skip, If the strut is free before you put the bungee on it would seem that you're o.k. The bungee is a serious force that only engine weight will counteract. If you have added plastic bearings, there is little chance that binding would occur. Earlier plans without bearing plastic did have problems with binding, but I assume you've got the bearing material in place. If you didn't, you'd have a bigger problem to deal with. The paint will eventually wear off and any uneven pull thru on the plates will smooth out once you've got the engine in place. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Skip Perry wrote: > > Strangely enough, I am also at that point. I have put everything > together and when I check the freedom of the nose strut it is very > free _until_ I put the bungee on. It then becomes almost impossible to > move. I do not have the engine hung yet and I assume with that weight > some of the friction with the top stop plate will be eliminated things > will be freed up??? Do any of you have suggestions on this? > > Skip Perry 601XL > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eddies > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 6:25 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: XL photo guide help > > > Hi Chris, > > The bolts are threaded directly into the black plastic, you'll need to > tap the thread first of course. > > Yes the weight is taken by the bottom bearing, there is a gap between > the top stop plate and top firewall stiffener. Once you attach the > bungie this will become immediately obvious. > > Eddie > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124462#124462 > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:32 AM PST US From: "Kevin L. Rupert" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Materials List Guys, I need a little help with the 601XL materials list I downloaded from the CH601.org page. I'm having a little trouble deciphering it. Is column "A" inches or mm? Column "C" is telling me what? The same for column "Q" and "R". What do they represent? I hate to be dense but I've never been accused of being the sharpest knife in the drawer. Any help would be appreciated. Kevin R. 601XL/Corvair / / ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter From: "n85ae" I've built two airplanes using Central Pneumatic riveter from Harbor Freight, I think (not sure) I might have oiled it once ... It's still going strong. Which is a great deal, because I only paid like $30-40 for it. I ground my own tips for the ZAC rivet head, otherwise I don't do anything to care for it, plus I have dropped it numerous times on the hard concrete floor in my shop. Jeff. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124539#124539 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:42 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 XL Materials List Don=92t feel bad I didn=92t decipher it either, but my preference is to use something like HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/resources/material/hardware/601xl.pdf.zip"http://w ww.ch601.org/resources/material/hardware/601xl.pdf.zip This one is far easier to use. Also check the layouts with your version of plans, pieces have changed in thickness. The fuselage side skins are now .025 and the gusset plates have been removed. This is just one example, there are more. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin L. Rupert Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:19 AM Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Materials List Guys, I need a little help with the 601XL materials list I downloaded from the CH601.org page. I'm having a little trouble deciphering it. Is column "A" inches or mm? Column "C" is telling me what? The same for column "Q" and "R". What do they represent? I hate to be dense but I've never been accused of being the sharpest knife in the drawer. Any help would be appreciated. Kevin R. 601XL/Corvair "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 7/17/2007 6:30 PM 7/17/2007 6:30 PM ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:35 AM PST US From: 4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons) Subject: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling Another question! As I am going through leveling my Fuse, Front Floor, Firewall, Gear Channel, whatever else, I am concerned about my digital gauge reading in only 0.1 incaments. A friend suggested using the water hose level as you can literally carry one point to another if your hose is long enough (Long enough hose??? Don't go there!!) Have any of you guys used this method before? Any thoughts on leveling before I go any further? WHAT IS YOUR OPINION? I live in the world of measurement in the Automotive Industry and I know when it is close enough for a car body etc. . . When is Close enough good enough for my plane as far as these angular measurements? What is your rule of thumb? Do not archive -- Thanks, Rich Simmons
 
 
 
Another question!
 
As I am going through leveling my Fuse, Front Floor, Firewall, Gear Channel, whatever else, I am concerned about my digital gauge reading in only 0.1 incaments.
 
A friend suggested using the water hose level as you can literally carry one point to another if your hose is long enough (Long enough hose??? Don't go there!!)
 
Have any of you guys used this method before? Any thoughts on leveling before I go any further?
 
WHAT IS YOUR OPINION?
I live in the world of measurement in the Automotive Industry and I know when it is close enough for a car body etc. . . When is Close enough good enough for my plane as far as these angular measurements? What is your rule of thumb?
 
Do not archive
 
--
Thanks,
Rich Simmons
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:42 AM PST US From: "David Brooks" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling I have used a water level to do deck construction and it worked great. The one I got at Home Depot has a small box with a sensor and an alarm that goes off when level is reached so you don't have to be able to see both ends at once (handy for big projects). The only issue I would have with my level is accuracy. In theory, of course, this would be supremely accurate but in reality the meniscus in the plastic tube isn't always uniform all the way around the tube (dirt and dust get in there) so it could be off a millimeter or two. That is obviously not something I have ever worried about while building decks. Just my 2 cents work of experience (1 1/2 cents worth?), your mileage may very well vary. Do not archive (ok, so how does this work? and what should and shouldn't be archived?) Dave On 7/18/07, Rich Simmons <4rcsimmons@comcast.net> wrote: > > > Another question! > > As I am going through leveling my Fuse, Front Floor, Firewall, Gear > Channel, whatever else, I am concerned about my digital gauge reading in > only 0.1 incaments. > > A friend suggested using the water hose level as you can literally carry > one point to another if your hose is long enough (Long enough hose??? Don't > go there!!) > > Have any of you guys used this method before? Any thoughts on leveling > before I go any further? > > WHAT IS YOUR OPINION? > I live in the world of measurement in the Automotive Industry and I know > when it is close enough for a car body etc. . . When is Close enough good > enough for my plane as far as these angular measurements? What is your rule > of thumb? > > Do not archive > > -- > Thanks, > Rich Simmons > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:15 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling Hi Rich, Leveling things at distance with a clear water hose is fine, gear, fuselage etc. For wing leveling, and control surfaces, use a bubble level or a tool that measures reliably in degrees. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Rich Simmons wrote: > > Another question! > > As I am going through leveling my Fuse, Front Floor, Firewall, > Gear Channel, whatever else, I am concerned about my digital gauge > reading in only 0.1 incaments. > > A friend suggested using the water hose level as you can literally > carry one point to another if your hose is long enough (Long > enough hose??? Don't go there!!) > > Have any of you guys used this method before? Any thoughts on > leveling before I go any further? > > WHAT IS YOUR OPINION? > I live in the world of measurement in the Automotive Industry and > I know when it is close enough for a car body etc. . . When is > Close enough good enough for my plane as far as these angular > measurements? What is your rule of thumb? > > Do not archive > > -- > Thanks, > Rich Simmons > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter From: "Geoff Heap" Where were you when I needed you Jeff......Geoff do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124555#124555 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:17 AM PST US From: "Robert Taylor" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling I got a Black and Decker, self leveling laser level at Big Lots for $39. Works great. Checked it with my $300 unit and it checked out perfectly. Bob Taylor Wadsworth, Ohio N657RT, Res. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Brooks To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:24 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling I have used a water level to do deck construction and it worked great. The one I got at Home Depot has a small box with a sensor and an alarm that goes off when level is reached so you don't have to be able to see both ends at once (handy for big projects). The only issue I would have with my level is accuracy. In theory, of course, this would be supremely accurate but in reality the meniscus in the plastic tube isn't always uniform all the way around the tube (dirt and dust get in there) so it could be off a millimeter or two. That is obviously not something I have ever worried about while building decks. Just my 2 cents work of experience (1 1/2 cents worth?), your mileage may very well vary. Do not archive (ok, so how does this work? and what should and shouldn't be archived?) Dave On 7/18/07, Rich Simmons <4rcsimmons@comcast.net> wrote: Another question! As I am going through leveling my Fuse, Front Floor, Firewall, Gear Channel, whatever else, I am concerned about my digital gauge reading in only 0.1 incaments. A friend suggested using the water hose level as you can literally carry one point to another if your hose is long enough (Long enough hose??? Don't go there!!) Have any of you guys used this method before? Any thoughts on leveling before I go any further? WHAT IS YOUR OPINION? I live in the world of measurement in the Automotive Industry and I know when it is close enough for a car body etc. . . When is Close enough good enough for my plane as far as these angular measurements? What is your rule of thumb? Do not archive -- Thanks, Rich Simmons ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:15 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling making the miniscus less of an indicating variable is exactly why you put the red food coloring in the water... David Brooks wrote: I have used a water level to do deck construction and it worked great. The one I got at Home Depot has a small box with a sensor and an alarm that goes off when level is reached so you don't have to be able to see both ends at once (handy for big projects). The only issue I would have with my level is accuracy. In theory, of course, this would be supremely accurate but in reality the meniscus in the plastic tube isn't always uniform all the way around the tube (dirt and dust get in there) so it could be off a millimeter or two. That is obviously not something I have ever worried about while building decks. Just my 2 cents work of experience (1 1/2 cents worth?), your mileage may very well vary. Do not archive (ok, so how does this work? and what should and shouldn't be archived?) Dave On 7/18/07, Rich Simmons <4rcsimmons@comcast.net> wrote: Another question! As I am going through leveling my Fuse, Front Floor, Firewall, Gear Channel, whatever else, I am concerned about my digital gauge reading in only 0.1 incaments. A friend suggested using the water hose level as you can literally carry one point to another if your hose is long enough (Long enough hose??? Don't go there!!) Have any of you guys used this method before? Any thoughts on leveling before I go any further? WHAT IS YOUR OPINION? I live in the world of measurement in the Automotive Industry and I know when it is close enough for a car body etc. . . When is Close enough good enough for my plane as far as these angular measurements? What is your rule of thumb? Do not archive -- Thanks, Rich Simmons Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:01 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation From: "txpilot" Hi George and Jon, Well, I got tired of filing. It seemed I wasn't going anywhere with it, so I got out my dremel with a cut-off wheel and went medieval on it. I probably took off more than necessary, but I got good freedom of movement. I figured it's pretty important to make sure there's no binding there. I have the 140mm movement you mentioned Jon. I'm sure once the elevtor is mounted and stops in place I'll be at the 117-118mm range. Thanks again for your inputs. Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124568#124568 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Corvair engine for sale From: "ashontz" What year? What kind of shape is it in? do not archive joe(at)kfiz.com wrote: > Guys, > > My good friend Doc Mosher told me a few days ago that he wants to sell his > Corvair engine. He just sold the Petenpole kit that was suppose to fly > behind it (or under it). Doc is an AI and his workanship is second to none. > He hasen't advertised it yet but I sure would like to see a fellow 601 > builder have it. EAA used it for a while as a display while he was working > on his plane. I have always been one who loves Corvair engines, and I > wouldn't hesitate to fly behind one for a moment, especially his! His name > is Don "Doc" Mosher, and you can call him at 920-727-1534 or E-mail him at > docshop@tds.net. He lives north of Oshkosh so if you are coming this way for > the convention you can take it home! Tell him Joe told you to call! > > Joe in Oshkosh > > P.S. I have a housefull of guests this year but I will always be home in the > evenings. If anyone wants to stop and see my project, give me a call when > you are in Oshkosh. 920-237-1450. I am 1 1/2 miles north of Wittman Field. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124570#124570 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:15 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling Rich, I think you will be fine. I think my new craftsman digital is good to 0.2 deg. Good enough for me. Another builder on this list told me a story recently. He was having trouble getting his firewall dead on. He called Caleb at ZAC, and explained that he had it to within 0.5 of a degree. He laughed and said, "Wow, we haven't gotten one that close yet". Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Plans building. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rich Simmons Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:03 AM Subject: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling Another question! As I am going through leveling my Fuse, Front Floor, Firewall, Gear Channel, whatever else, I am concerned about my digital gauge reading in only 0.1 incaments. A friend suggested using the water hose level as you can literally carry one point to another if your hose is long enough (Long enough hose??? Don't go there!!) Have any of you guys used this method before? Any thoughts on leveling before I go any further? WHAT IS YOUR OPINION? I live in the world of measurement in the Automotive Industry and I know when it is close enough for a car body etc. . . When is Close enough good enough for my plane as far as these angular measurements? What is your rule of thumb? Do not archive -- Thanks, Rich Simmons ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:54 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation From: "Tommy Walker" Dan, What is the length of your pitch control rod? Seems that's where the amount of travel is also controlled. The plans call for 665mm but I think that's too much. I looked at a CZAW built plane last week. The control rod was about 585mm. It didn't touch the seat back nor did the end travel back into the seat front oblong hole. Tommy Walker in Alabama -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124573#124573 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:56 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned From: "ashontz" I'd like to see this setup on paper. Sounds good. Also, got me thinking about the setup pn my pickup truck, and probably a lot of cars, and that is, there's a feed and a return line to the carb bowl, so basically the fuel just makes a continuous loop from the tank to the carb and overflow back to the tank with the pump positioned at the base of the tank. Not sure what the purpose is but I've never had vapor lock in that old truck (1985). [quote="crvsecretary"]Gentlemen: Charles makes a number of very good points here...but I have a question or two: - I'm looking to put a facet pump right at the base of each tank so the whole run is pressurized fuel to reduce vapor lock. Charles says to be sure the correct pump is turned on....is there any danger to the facet pumps by running one 'deadheaded' right into the fuel selector...that way both pumps can be wired to ONE switch to eliminate pilot error. - there was a prolific lister here some time ago that was exceptionally knowledgeable on vapor lock issues. He suggested eliminating the fuel selector completely and running a check valve at the outlet of each pump. That way BOTH pumps could supply fuel during takeoff and landing and ONE pump can run during cruise. When one pump is running, the check valve(s) will eliminate crossfeeding from one tank to another. In addition, by using a 2-gang rotary switch wired Left-Right-Left+Right there is no way the plane can suffer from NO pumps on due to pilot error. My only problem with this setup is that the one fuel pump switch presents a single point of failure....... Any thoughts?? Thanks Tracy Smith N458XL (reserved) Do Not Archive In a message dated 6/19/2007 12:42:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, charles.long@gm.com writes: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: charles.long@gm.com > > > ? A friend of mine who also flies a Zodie Rocket had an issue on > takeoff the other day. His engine began to stumble right after liftoff on a > 90 degree day. He immediately cut power and landed. Fortunately he had > plenty of runway. After assessing the situation, he found that he had > inadvertently turned on the electric fuel pump at the base of the wrong > tank. Two lessons to be learned here: ALWAYS USE THE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP FOR > BACKUP ON TAKEOFF AND LANDING. SECONDLY, IF USING SEPARATE ELECTRIC PUMPS > FOR EACH TANK, CONFIRM YOU ARE USING THE RIGHT ONE. This incident was with > the Rotax 912s using auto fuel. It has been reported that auto fuel has a > higher vapor lock potential so the electric fuel pumps tend to be even more > critical for avoiding vapor lock issues. If the pump is at the base of the > tank, the problem is virtually eliminated since pressurized fuel won't > vapor lock. > > Before we bad mouth the 912s, I would argue that vapor lock is not an > engine-specific problem. I also had a vapor lock problem with my Jab > involving a restrictive fuel filter. The electric pump application > immediately corrected the vapor lock condition as reported below: > > > From: Charles F. Long on 06/20/2005 11:40 AM > > To: Zenith-List Digest List > cc: micheintz@gmail.com > Subject: Fuel Filter Placement - Lessons Learned > > I experienced an engine stoppage during one of my first flights. It > occurred at altitude using cruise power with the Aux pump off. The engine > immediately restarted after turning the Aux pump on (windmilling propellor, > so engine starter was not required). I repeated the stoppage a second time > by shutting the pump off and confirmed that the Aux pump was required to > keep the engine running. My airplane configuration is as follows: > > 601HDS built from Kit > Jabiru 3300A purchased with FWD from ZAC > ? Finger screens in the tank > Dual Aux Facet pumps in wing root mounted close to the tank > Selector valve on the floor just forward of the wing spar > Single line feeding the Gascolator just aft of the firewall > ? Jabiru Engine fuel pump in series with Aux pumps > Bosch Metal Can auto fuel filter downstream of the Jab pump > Fuel pressure sensor downstream of the Bosch filter > Outside air temp - 80 F > > ? Jabiru recommends installing the fuel filter upstream rather than > downstream of their fuel pump. I did not follow this practice as I was > concerned about installing a filter on the suction side of the pump. > > The fuel system was designed to run at low pressures ( -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124578#124578 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:31 AM PST US From: "David Brooks" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling Does the red food coloring reduce the surface tension of the water (and thereby making the meniscus 'smaller') or does it just make it easier to see the bottom of the 'bowl'? If it doesn't make the meniscus smaller then the little alarm box thingie probably would still have some inaccuracies. I am asking out of real curiosity, not to be snarky. I think that others have suggested better tools for the job anyway and I really doubt that this sort of accuracy will ever be necessary in my fence & deck projects. But this is exactly the sort of thing that I much prefer to ponder than the real work that is piling up around me on my desk. Dave On 7/18/07, David Downey wrote: > > making the miniscus less of an indicating variable is exactly why you put > the red food coloring in the water... > > *David Brooks * wrote: > > I have used a water level to do deck construction and it worked great. > The one I got at Home Depot has a small box with a sensor and an alarm that > goes off when level is reached so you don't have to be able to see both ends > at once (handy for big projects). > > The only issue I would have with my level is accuracy. In theory, of > course, this would be supremely accurate but in reality the meniscus in the > plastic tube isn't always uniform all the way around the tube (dirt and dust > get in there) so it could be off a millimeter or two. That is obviously not > something I have ever worried about while building decks. > > Just my 2 cents work of experience (1 1/2 cents worth?), your mileage may > very well vary. > > Do not archive (ok, so how does this work? and what should and shouldn't > be archived?) > > Dave > > > On 7/18/07, Rich Simmons <4rcsimmons@comcast.net> wrote: > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:02 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling The food coloring should be water-based, so I cannot see how it would change the surface tension of the water....if it was alcohol-based I think you might have a good point. I add just a few drops of food coloring into my water level just to give my eyes a break and make the meniscus easier to see. As far as the alarm being affected by the food coloring I am not in a position to say. Tracy Smith 601XL N458XL (reserved) working on wings In a message dated 7/18/2007 11:26:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, dkbrooks@gmail.com writes: Does the red food coloring reduce the surface tension of the water (and thereby making the meniscus 'smaller') or does it just make it easier to see the bottom of the 'bowl'? If it doesn't make the meniscus smaller then the little alarm box thingie probably would still have some inaccuracies. I am asking out of real curiosity, not to be snarky. I think that others have suggested better tools for the job anyway and I really doubt that this sort of accuracy will ever be necessary in my fence & deck projects. But this is exactly the sort of thing that I much prefer to ponder than the real work that is piling up around me on my desk. Dave On 7/18/07, David Downey <_planecrazydld@yahoo.com_ (mailto:planecrazydld@yahoo.com) > wrote: making the miniscus less of an indicating variable is exactly why you put the red food coloring in the water... David Brooks <_ dkbrooks@gmail.com_ (mailto:dkbrooks@gmail.com) > wrote: I have used a water level to do deck construction and it worked great. The one I got at Home Depot has a small box with a sensor and an alarm that goes off when level is reached so you don't have to be able to see both ends at once (handy for big projects). The only issue I would have with my level is accuracy. In theory, of course, this would be supremely accurate but in reality the meniscus in the plastic tube isn't always uniform all the way around the tube (dirt and dust get in there) so it could be off a millimeter or two. That is obviously not something I have ever worried about while building decks. Just my 2 cents work of experience (1 1/2 cents worth?), your mileage may very well vary. Do not archive (ok, so how does this work? and what should and shouldn't be archived?) Dave ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:52 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling The coloring only makes it easier to see. If you have no bubbles (let the water level set for a few hours after filling), and always read to the bottom of the meniscus, you will be incredibly accurate. The Zenith airplanes were designed for building with a minimum of tools. It is doubtful that the rest of a homebuilder's construction would be that exact, any how. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, Tail done, wings done, working on c-section _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Brooks Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling Does the red food coloring reduce the surface tension of the water (and thereby making the meniscus 'smaller') or does it just make it easier to see the bottom of the 'bowl'? If it doesn't make the meniscus smaller then the little alarm box thingie probably would still have some inaccuracies. I am asking out of real curiosity, not to be snarky. I think that others have suggested better tools for the job anyway and I really doubt that this sort of accuracy will ever be necessary in my fence & deck projects. But this is exactly the sort of thing that I much prefer to ponder than the real work that is piling up around me on my desk. Dave On 7/18/07, David Downey wrote: making the miniscus less of an indicating variable is exactly why you put the red food coloring in the water... David Brooks < dkbrooks@gmail.com> wrote: I have used a water level to do deck construction and it worked great. The one I got at Home Depot has a small box with a sensor and an alarm that goes off when level is reached so you don't have to be able to see both ends at once (handy for big projects). The only issue I would have with my level is accuracy. In theory, of course, this would be supremely accurate but in reality the meniscus in the plastic tube isn't always uniform all the way around the tube (dirt and dust get in there) so it could be off a millimeter or two. That is obviously not something I have ever worried about while building decks. Just my 2 cents work of experience (1 1/2 cents worth?), your mileage may very well vary. Do not archive (ok, so how does this work? and what should and shouldn't be archived?) Dave On 7/18/07, Rich Simmons <4rcsimmons@comcast.net> wrote: ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:02 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation do not archive Next to (the proper color) scotchbrite, isnt dremel the metal plane builder's best friend? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation > > Hi George and Jon, > > Well, I got tired of filing. It seemed I wasn't going anywhere with it, > so I got out my dremel with a cut-off wheel and went medieval on it. I > probably took off more than necessary, but I got good freedom of movement. > I figured it's pretty important to make sure there's no binding there. > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Leveling From: "DaveG601XL" Wow, I only used the angle templates and bubble levels as shown in the assembly guides. I doubt my bubble levels are accurate to 0.1 degrees. I did at least make sure that all three of my levels agreed with each other. If you see me flying by all catty-whompus (warning: technical term) then I guess I did it all wrong. I will not know how it flies for another year or two though. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124606#124606 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:53 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 XL Materials List www.ch601.org/resources/material/MATERIAL%20REQUIREMENTS%20mailout.xls Column C is the part number on the page (because column B is only the the page number). For example on line 5 we have "6b1" and "4" making part number 6B1-4. Columns Q and R are calculated by formulas based on the hidden columns I and G. You may have noticed that the columns jumps from "E" to "N". Columns "F" through "M" are in there. To unhide them you have to select both column E and N. You can do this by clicking on the "E" (should highlight the entire column). Then hold down the "Shift" key and click on the "N". At this point all of columns E and N should be highlighted. Now click with the right mouse button and you should get a floating pop-up menu. Choose "unhide" Now you can see columns: F - height in mm G - height in inches H - width in mm I - width in inches J - length of extrusions, mm K - length of extrusions, inches L - empty M - ??? N - height in inches with one inch fudge factor added on O - width with one inch fudge factor The formulas in column Q basically say "if the number in column I is larger than the number in column G then show the number from column I. Otherwise show the number in column G". In other words the number in column Q is the part's maximum dimension in inches. It is formatted to round to the nearest inch. The formulas in column R says "if the number in column Q is greater than 48.1 inches then show the number in column Q. Otherwise show a blank". In other words if the longest dimension of the part won't fit across the 4 foot length of sheet then show its size in this column. I'm not sure what column A represents but it appears to be in inches. It looks like it is some sort of hand-entered running total within a group of parts. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:11 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL photo guide help It should be okay to drill those holes all the way through the plastic block making it easier to tap them. Then simply put a dab of RTV silicone to close off the top after assembly. Dred ---- Craig Payne wrote: > I didn't want to drill all the way through the block and leave a hole on the > upper side that would hold dirt, water, etc. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:44 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: nose gear questions Skip, it better work right without any weight on it because that's how it will be inflight. Whatever the problem, it needs to be worked out now. Dred ---- Skip Perry wrote: > Strangely enough, I am also at that point. I have put everything together > and when I check the freedom of the nose strut it is very free until I put > the bungee on. It then becomes almost impossible to move. I do not have the > engine hung yet and I assume with that weight some of the friction with the > top stop plate will be eliminated things will be freed up??? Do any of you > have suggestions on this? > > > > Skip Perry - 601XL > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eddies > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 6:25 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: XL photo guide help > > > > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > The bolts are threaded directly into the black plastic, you'll need to tap > the thread first of course. > > > > Yes the weight is taken by the bottom bearing, there is a gap between the > top stop plate and top firewall stiffener. Once you attach the bungie this > will become immediately obvious. > > > > Eddie > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124462#124462 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:47 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling Have beer and go with the digital level. Dred ---- Rich Simmons <4rcsimmons@comcast.net> wrote: > > > > Another question! > > As I am going through leveling my Fuse, Front Floor, Firewall, Gear Channel, whatever else, I am concerned about my digital gauge reading in only 0.1 incaments. > > A friend suggested using the water hose level as you can literally carry one point to another if your hose is long enough (Long enough hose??? Don't go there!!) > > Have any of you guys used this method before? Any thoughts on leveling before I go any further? > > WHAT IS YOUR OPINION? > I live in the world of measurement in the Automotive Industry and I know when it is close enough for a car body etc. . . When is Close enough good enough for my plane as far as these angular measurements? What is your rule of thumb? > > Do not archive > > -- > Thanks, > Rich Simmons ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:47 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Leveling I still like the beer and digital level technique. If the plane flies in circles at least you won't get far from the airport and get lost! Honestly guys, if you can get the parts to within even .2 to .3 degrees of what the drawings call for, you should be fine. Send flowers after I crash, Dred ---- DaveG601XL wrote: > > Wow, I only used the angle templates and bubble levels as shown in the assembly guides. I doubt my bubble levels are accurate to 0.1 degrees. I did at least make sure that all three of my levels agreed with each other. > > If you see me flying by all catty-whompus (warning: technical term) then I guess I did it all wrong. I will not know how it flies for another year or two though. > > Good luck, > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL, tail and wings completed, > fueslage almost done, engine next. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124606#124606 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:06 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: AUTOPILOT From: "jackandval" I have a 601 HDS that I am going to put a autopilot in. Searched the forums but could not find any photo's anywhere that might show how others have mounted the servo. If anyone has any photo's or info on how they did it I would appreciate the info. Thanks, Jack Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124621#124621 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:50 PM PST US From: "R.P." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: nose gear questions ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: nose gear questions > > Skip, it better work right without any weight on it because that's how it > will be inflight. Whatever the problem, it needs to be worked out now. > > Dred I was worried about the same thing when I assembled my nose gear. It turned out to be a non-issue. By the time I made a couple of taxi tests everything smoothed out nicely. Just needed some exercising. Rick scratch built zodiac... flying and happy :) ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:57 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: AUTOPILOT There area few pics in the photo archive: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/craig@craigandjean.com.02.11.2006 -- Craig ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:20 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: AUTOPILOT Jack, I am building a 601XL. I am not familiar enough with the HD to know what differences there might be in this area. The attached photo is of the area behind the pilot's seat. The servo is in the center. The gizmo in the lower right is the flap actuator motor. The servo is part of the TruTrack ADI Pilot I single axis autopilot system. The servo is attached to na .050" 6061- T6 "strengthening tray," which is bolted to the floor skin. The servo actuator rod is attached to the aileron control horn on the end of the torque tube. The aileron control cables will later be attached to this same horn. Questions? Jay in Dallas "jackandval" wrote: > >I have a 601 HDS that I am going to put a autopilot in. Searched the forums but could not find any photo's anywhere that might show how others have mounted the servo. If anyone has any photo's or info on how they did it I would appreciate the info. Thanks, Jack > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124621#124621 > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:48 PM PST US From: "Kevin L. Rupert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL Materials List Craig, Thanks, that's what I needed to know but, Good Lord, how did you figure that all out? Kevin R. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:35 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 XL Materials List > Good Lord, how did you figure that all out? I spend way too much time working on spreadsheets in Excel. -- Craig do not archive ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:00 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ZAC Pneumatic Riveter From: "n85ae" When I started on airplane one, I bought everything known to man that cost a lot of money. :) Including a couple welding rigs, a Mill, a Lathe, etc. Some of the cheap stuff is best. Worst investment - Axis Citation HVLP Spray System. My Harbor Freight El-Cheapo is a much better shooter. Best Investment ever - My Grizzly 14" Ultimate Bandsaw. I put a bi-metal blade on it and made everything from bunk beds for the kids, to parts for the plane with it. Biggest waste of time - Building a spray booth. By the time I finished spraying, I discovered that a good weather day with the doors wide open was the best. The occasional dust nib is easily rubbed out anyway. A still early morning out in tha backyard with saw horses will likely yield every bit as good a results as an industrial spray booth. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124643#124643 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:12 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FW: Leveling the reason I mentioned it is that I love water levels - they always work (unless you have a kink or other blockage - ask how I know this...). I also think I can get inside 1/32" pretty easily. Th ebetter levels have 3/4" diameter tubing at the indicating ends. When you use colored water, the "bowl" as you aptly described it is flat bottomed and you can sight right through the meniscus (probably won't be as easy now that I have old eyes). Unless you have a machinists level it is really hard to get that kind of precision. Certainly do not ever consider using a line level... David Brooks wrote: Does the red food coloring reduce the surface tension of the water (and thereby making the meniscus 'smaller') or does it just make it easier to see the bottom of the 'bowl'? If it doesn't make the meniscus smaller then the little alarm box thingie probably would still have some inaccuracies. I am asking out of real curiosity, not to be snarky. I think that others have suggested better tools for the job anyway and I really doubt that this sort of accuracy will ever be necessary in my fence & deck projects. But this is exactly the sort of thing that I much prefer to ponder than the real work that is piling up around me on my desk. Dave On 7/18/07, David Downey wrote: making the miniscus less of an indicating variable is exactly why you put the red food coloring in the water... David Brooks < dkbrooks@gmail.com> wrote: I have used a water level to do deck construction and it worked great. The one I got at Home Depot has a small box with a sensor and an alarm that goes off when level is reached so you don't have to be able to see both ends at once (handy for big projects). The only issue I would have with my level is accuracy. In theory, of course, this would be supremely accurate but in reality the meniscus in the plastic tube isn't always uniform all the way around the tube (dirt and dust get in there) so it could be off a millimeter or two. That is obviously not something I have ever worried about while building decks. Just my 2 cents work of experience (1 1/2 cents worth?), your mileage may very well vary. Do not archive (ok, so how does this work? and what should and shouldn't be archived?) Dave On 7/18/07, Rich Simmons <4rcsimmons@comcast.net> wrote: Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:43 PM PST US From: Peter Chapman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuselage Gussets At 23:11 20-01-07 (way back), you wrote: > >As an old 601 owner, I found that there were cracks in the 16 thou >side panels (both sides) that I noticed after 13 years. Not only >that, but water had gone in thru the crack on one side and the rivet >had turned to alum oxide. Even with the 25 thou panels, I still >suggest that unless the vertical stiffener is locked to the upper >longeron, vibration would do the same to the 25 thou panel. I also found cracks in the paint at 2 or 3 of the intersections as mentioned by Dave Austin -- between the upper longerons and the vertical stiffeners in the aft fuselage. 601 HDS, 8 years old, 350 hours, built using 1994 kit plans that didn't show gussets at those top intersections. My dad had questioned that design when building it. The cracks occurred in the side of the fuselage built to plans. On the other side, built second, he extended one leg of the vertical L angles under the longeron, somewhat stiffening the junction without a separate gusset. We now installed 0.025" stiffeners to prevent further fatigue at many of the unreinforced intersections. (Although some later plans just show 0.016" stiffeners.) Had to wriggle into the fuselage to install the stiffeners, with a sawhorse under the fuselage and a custom fit board & various cushions inside the tailcone to support my weight. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON 601 HDS / 912 / C-GZDC ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:58 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned Your truck is probably fuel injected. With fuel injection, the fuel pump pressurizes a fuel rail and the pressure is held at at a constant setting by a regulator. The regulator bleeds off excess pressure back to the tank through the return line. Older carbureted vehicles did not have a return line to the tank because they used a lower pressure pump and the float valve in the carburetor simply shut off the flow from the pump when the bowl was full. Make sure you include in your design a simple way to shut off all the pumps in case of a forced landing. ashontz wrote: > > I'd like to see this setup on paper. Sounds good. > > Also, got me thinking about the setup pn my pickup truck, and probably a lot of cars, and that is, there's a feed and a return line to the carb bowl, so basically the fuel just makes a continuous loop from the tank to the carb and overflow back to the tank with the pump positioned at the base of the tank. Not sure what the purpose is but I've never had vapor lock in that old truck (1985). > > [quote="crvsecretary"]Gentlemen: > > Charles makes a number of very good points here...but I have a question or two: > > - I'm looking to put a facet pump right at the base of each tank so the whole run is pressurized fuel to reduce vapor lock. Charles says to be sure the correct pump is turned on....is there any danger to the facet pumps by running one 'deadheaded' right into the fuel selector...that way both pumps can be wired to ONE switch to eliminate pilot error. > > - there was a prolific lister here some time ago that was exceptionally knowledgeable on vapor lock issues. He suggested eliminating the fuel selector completely and running a check valve at the outlet of each pump. That way BOTH pumps could supply fuel during takeoff and landing and ONE pump can run during cruise. When one pump is running, the check valve(s) will eliminate crossfeeding from one tank to another. In addition, by using a 2-gang rotary switch wired Left-Right-Left+Right there is no way the plane can suffer from NO pumps on due to pilot error. My only problem with this setup is that the one fuel pump switch presents a single point of failure....... > > Any thoughts?? > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:10 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AUTOPILOT From: "jackandval" Craig, I put in that link and it is a dead link?? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124672#124672 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AUTOPILOT From: "jackandval" Never mind I found the pix on the site. Thanks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124674#124674 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:27 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: nose gear questions Skip, a couple points. Check the clearance at the top aluminum cross brace that the shaft goes throuh. The one above the green plastic fairlead bushing plate. I found on mine they were not aligned exactly right and had to file a bit off the metal. Second thing is I primed and pained the steel ( I guess so it would not rust ??? ) All that had to come off to allow travel. Last the long bolts at the bottom that hold the bottom plastic blocks together were too tight. I also added a generous application of grease. Once all these corrections and adjustments were made the shaft moved up and down and side to side with no problem. Best regards, Bill of Georgia ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:20 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation Nope Jon I believe you are incorrect, the builders best friend for tools is the Olfa P-800 Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:30 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation do not archive Next to (the proper color) scotchbrite, isnt dremel the metal plane builder's best friend? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation > > Hi George and Jon, > > Well, I got tired of filing. It seemed I wasn't going anywhere with it, > so I got out my dremel with a cut-off wheel and went medieval on it. I > probably took off more than necessary, but I got good freedom of movement. > I figured it's pretty important to make sure there's no binding there. > > 7/17/2007 6:30 PM 7/17/2007 6:30 PM ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:42 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Vaporlock issues - lessons learned From: "ashontz" Actually, it's carburated. Odd. [quote="bryanmmartin"]Your truck is probably fuel injected. With fuel injection, the fuel pump pressurizes a fuel rail and the pressure is held at at a constant setting by a regulator. The regulator bleeds off excess pressure back to the tank through the return line. Older carbureted vehicles did not have a return line to the tank because they used a lower pressure pump and the float valve in the carburetor simply shut off the flow from the pump when the bowl was full. Make sure you include in your design a simple way to shut off all the pumps in case of a forced landing. ashontz wrote: > > > I'd like to see this setup on paper. Sounds good. > > Also, got me thinking about the setup pn my pickup truck, and probably a lot of cars, and that is, there's a feed and a return line to the carb bowl, so basically the fuel just makes a continuous loop from the tank to the carb and overflow back to the tank with the pump positioned at the base of the tank. Not sure what the purpose is but I've never had vapor lock in that old truck (1985). > > > crvsecretary wrote: > > Gentlemen: > > > > Charles makes a number of very good points here...but I have a question or two: > > > > - I'm looking to put a facet pump right at the base of each tank so the whole run is pressurized fuel to reduce vapor lock. Charles says to be sure the correct pump is turned on....is there any danger to the facet pumps by running one 'deadheaded' right into the fuel selector...that way both pumps can be wired to ONE switch to eliminate pilot error. > > > > - there was a prolific lister here some time ago that was exceptionally knowledgeable on vapor lock issues. He suggested eliminating the fuel selector completely and running a check valve at the outlet of each pump. That way BOTH pumps could supply fuel during takeoff and landing and ONE pump can run during cruise. When one pump is running, the check valve(s) will eliminate crossfeeding from one tank to another. In addition, by using a 2-gang rotary switch wired Left-Right-Left+Right there is no way the plane can suffer from NO pumps on due to pilot error. My only problem with this setup is that the one fuel pump switch presents a single point of failure....... > > > > Any thoughts?? > > > > -- > > > > Bryan Martin > Zenith 601XL N61BM > Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive > Do Not Archive -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124703#124703 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:50 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Pitch Control Rod Installation > Nope Jon I believe you are incorrect, the builders best friend for tools is the Olfa P-800 Well I think this builder's best friend is this list. I hate to think how many more mistakes I would have made but for things I have learned from others. -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.