---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/22/07: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:47 AM - Re: EAA (burbby) 2. 04:54 AM - Re: EAA (David Downey) 3. 05:02 AM - Re: EGT sensor installation location (David Downey) 4. 05:32 AM - Re: EGT sensor installation location (Jeff) 5. 05:39 AM - Re: EAA (Jeff) 6. 07:01 AM - Re: EAA (LarryMcFarland) 7. 07:25 AM - Re: EGT sensor installation location (LarryMcFarland) 8. 07:32 AM - CH701 neutral position for the stick? (Jari Kaija (LapTop2)) 9. 09:37 AM - Re: WW 601 Fuel and Ign System Parts list (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 10. 10:22 AM - Installing wing tanks in 601XL? (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 11. 11:13 AM - Re: EGT sensor installation location (Mark Sherman) 12. 11:18 AM - Re: Installing wing tanks in 601XL? (Skip Perry) 13. 11:19 AM - Re: Installing wing tanks in 601XL? (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 14. 11:36 AM - Re: EAA (milreed) 15. 12:30 PM - Re: EAA (raymondj) 16. 01:05 PM - 601 fuel & ignition system (Bob Duns) 17. 01:26 PM - Re: EAA (Ronald Steele) 18. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: EAA () 19. 02:20 PM - Re: Re: EAA () 20. 02:51 PM - Re: CH701 neutral position for the stick? (Gordon) 21. 02:57 PM - Re: CH701 Anyone flying with the Jab 3300? (Joemotis@aol.com) 22. 03:05 PM - Re: CH701 Anyone flying with the Jab 3300? (Joemotis@aol.com) 23. 04:15 PM - Re: Re: EAA (Jeff) 24. 04:15 PM - Re: EAA (raymondj) 25. 04:25 PM - Re: CH701 Anyone flying with the Jab 3300? (LarryMcFarland) 26. 06:12 PM - Re: CH701 Anyone flying with the Jab 3300? (Paul Mulwitz) 27. 06:25 PM - Don't forget Monday Night Chat (leinad) 28. 08:03 PM - Re: CH701 Anyone flying with the Jab 3300? (Joemotis@AOL.COM) 29. 08:41 PM - Documenting construction (Elden Jacobson) 30. 09:20 PM - Re: CH701 Anyone flying with the Jab 3300? (jetboy) 31. 10:31 PM - Re: Documenting construction (lwinger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:58 AM PST US From: burbby Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA I like the Sport Pilot the best. But if i was interested in something more than sport pilot also i would try both magazines. Thanks Gary --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:39 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA I get both of them and there is a lot of duplication. Sport Aviation is still the instrument of choice for the moneyed and Sport Pilot is not much better - but would be my choice if I were only getting one of them do not archive Darrell Haas wrote: In an effort to always learn more about our planes I thought about joining EAA. Which magazine do people recommend for experimental private pilots? The Sport Aviation magazine or the Sport Pilot Magazine. I am a private pilot and will be building a 601 XL but may exercise my rights to be a Sport Pilot as I get older. Thanks for all the great info on the list. Darrell Haas Fairview, Oregon Do not archive Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:14 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EGT sensor installation location I cannot recommend a position for them but the following is good instrumentation theory that will yield comparable values from the four sensors: Place each probe into the stream at a point equidistant from its exhaust valve Place the probe so that the tip is as close to the center of the flow field as possible. Note that the probe may shift when tightened and take that into account Safety the clamp and strain relief the probe leads If extension wire is needed, make sure that it is the came calibration as the probe (for example type J probe = type J extension wire) I would think that Rotax would be able to specify the optimal distance from the exhaust valve. ruruny@aol.com wrote: Looking at the 2 attached pics of the left and right side of my engine, what would be the best place to install the EGT sensors. Just thought I'd get some input from anyone who might know if there is a best way to do it. There are 4 of them for my GRT EIS. Thanks Brian 701Builder.com --------------------------------- Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:40 AM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EGT sensor installation location Brian, I can't tell you about the Rotax, but on the Jabiru 3300 Jabiru had a definite recommendation on how far down the exhaust pipe to place the sensors. I'd check with a Rotax source (Lockwood?) for your answer. But I would expect much of an answer this week. Everyone who is a vendor is at Oshkosh. Jeff Davidson Do not archive _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ruruny@aol.com Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 11:49 PM Subject: Zenith-List: EGT sensor installation location Looking at the 2 attached pics of the left and right side of my engine, what would be the best place to install the EGT sensors. Just thought I'd get some input from anyone who might know if there is a best way to do it. There are 4 of them for my GRT EIS. Thanks Brian 701Builder.com _____ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:12 AM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EAA Darrell, Since you plan to build, Kitplanes has been excellent for builders recently. They are currently running a series about building a fast-build 601 XL kit with a Corvair engine. It also has good "how to" articles in each edition. Jeff do not archive this either _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Downey Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 7:53 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA I get both of them and there is a lot of duplication. Sport Aviation is still the instrument of choice for the moneyed and Sport Pilot is not much better - but would be my choice if I were only getting one of them do not archive Darrell Haas wrote: In an effort to always learn more about our planes I thought about joining EAA. Which magazine do people recommend for experimental private pilots? The Sport Aviation magazine or the Sport Pilot Magazine. I am a private pilot and will be building a 601 XL but may exercise my rights to be a Sport Pilot as I get older. Thanks for all the great _____ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:58 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA hi Darrel, The Sport Pilot Magazine mirrors Sport Aviation, but seems to not include so much about high powered aircraft, etc. I take both, get more out of the Sport pilot mag but prefer Kit Planes to either of them. The grass roots are covered better from Kit Planes and you see a lot more construction details over a long period of time. Sport Planes tends to work and write to a less mature audience and deal with light subject matter rather than getting too involved with projects. Its predecessor, Experimental Aviation Mag was written with the full coverage and in-depth detail that made it a valued and collectible magazine. A library that had a few years of that magazine had an invaluable reference that neither of the current EAA publications can duplicate. The SLA movement and quick assembly kits have obscured the value of knowing how things work and go together. You have to buy the Bingelis series books and a few others to find the best of that kind of information. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Darrell Haas wrote: > In an effort to always learn more about our planes I thought > about joining EAA. Which magazine do people recommend for experimental > private pilots? The Sport Aviation magazine or the Sport Pilot > Magazine. I am a private pilot and will be building a 601 XL but may > exercise my rights to be a Sport Pilot as I get older. Thanks for all > the great info on the list. > > Darrell Haas > Fairview, Oregon > > Do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:30 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EGT sensor installation location Brian, For the Subaru, EA-81, 100 hp, EGTs are located about 3-1/2 inches from the exhaust valve. Yours would probably be placed in a similar location as near where curve of the pipe ends. There's a drawing out there that shows something like this by Rotax but this is what several have done for the 912 and 914 per the archives. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com ruruny@aol.com wrote: > Looking at the 2 attached pics of the left and right side of my > engine, what would be the best place to install the EGT sensors. > Just thought I'd get some input from anyone who might know if there is > a best way to do it. There are 4 of them for my GRT EIS. > > Thanks > Brian > 701Builder.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:56 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija (LapTop2)" Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 neutral position for the stick? Hi there! I'm installing controls to my CH701 and I need to know what is a neutral position for Y-Control stick and 7-C-1-1 Horizontal tail bellcrank. Are they both ie. 90 degree angle, when measuring from 7-C-2-2 torgue tube? Drawings says that 7-C-1-3 pitch control rod need to be cut for neutral position, but... :-( btw. I will try to update my www-pages later tonight.... http://www.project-ch701.net ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:37:25 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: WW 601 Fuel and Ign System Parts list This is my excel list of most every part I put in the airplane as I think of more stuff I will add it and post updates then you can just over write this file. One thing I can't remember is where I ordered the bosh coils. But I will go thru my receipts and add it when I do. The last 2 columns in the spread sheet where for me and can be ignored. Jeff ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:20 AM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Zenith-List: Installing wing tanks in 601XL? I have a QB 601XL kit with the 15 gal tanks. I was wondering how many layers of cork people use to install the tanks and how the layers are laid out on the tank. The plans and photo guides are not consistent nor complete in this regard. Also, the tanks I got have about a 20x30mm rectangular boss for the drain valve, that extends 6-7 mm from the tank bottom. Am I supposed to cut a (fairly large) matching hole for this in the bottom skin, or float the tanks far enough above the skin and only cut a hole for the valve? Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:29 AM PST US From: Mark Sherman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EGT sensor installation location Brian. The installation manual for the Rotax tells you the exact distance from the exhaust port for the EGT probes. The reason they want you to use this position is, that is where they took the reading to come up with the maximum EGT temperature. You could put them in a different position, but your reading could be considerably off (low reading) and cause you to cook the engine. Which would be hard to do with a CV carb. I guess if you had a vacuum leak you could lean out one or two cylinders. Your cylinder head temp gage should indicate the rise in temperature also, but it is a little slow reacting to the change because it really isn't a CHT gage. It sits on the cylinder head, but is also in a water jacket. So it doesn't really reflect a accurate CHT or water temp. It's a combo of both. I am using a water temp gage in the water line after the coolant leaves the engine and before it gets to the radiator. Hottest point. Mark S. 701/912ULS ----- Original Message ---- From: "ruruny@aol.com" Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 8:49:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: EGT sensor installation location Looking at the 2 attached pics of the left and right side of my engine, what would be the best place to install the EGT sensors. Just thought I'd get some input from anyone who might know if there is a best way to do it. There are 4 of them for my GRT EIS. Thanks Brian 701Builder.com http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:31 AM PST US From: "Skip Perry" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Installing wing tanks in 601XL? Andy, I put one layer of cork strips on the tanks in such a way that the tank would not be making metal to metal contact with the skins. I put it over all of the surfaces and it seems to work OK like that for me. As for the tanks, they must be building them different now. My tanks have a round boss for the drain and the bottom skin had already been cut with an appropriate sized hole. After the tank is in place the boss extends just barely through the hole on mine. Skip Perry - 601XL DO NOT ARCHIVE _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Andrew Elliott Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 1:15 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Installing wing tanks in 601XL? I have a QB 601XL kit with the 15 gal tanks. I was wondering how many layers of cork people use to install the tanks and how the layers are laid out on the tank. The plans and photo guides are not consistent nor complete in this regard. Also, the tanks I got have about a 20x30mm rectangular boss for the drain valve, that extends 6-7 mm from the tank bottom. Am I supposed to cut a (fairly large) matching hole for this in the bottom skin, or float the tanks far enough above the skin and only cut a hole for the valve? Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:58 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Installing wing tanks in 601XL? You will need to place the cork around the welds so the welds wont hit the skin it depends on the clearance of the ribs on the sides as to how many strips of cork you put on the sides of the tank. As far as the drain valve you will more than likely have to make the hole the same size as the boss but wait until you are sure the tank is where it will be when the LE is closed otherwise you will be off center and have to make a larger hole for it. I put a total of 4 strips on top of the tank and closed the LE to make sure they were just touching the skin. some places may have more than others. Around the fuel filler I had to add a extra piece of cork so the skin wouldn't crush and made a firm seat for the flange. Hope this helps Jeff ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:08 AM PST US From: "milreed" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA Plenty of glitzy, bling, bling magazines that slip right off the table. Kitplanes and Ultra Flight as well as ZAC's quarterly magazine I like to read. I would like to see a pulp paper magazine like the old Popular Mechanics that showed you how to make a coffee table out of a door ( I did them one better, I made a door out of a coffee table). Any way Ladies and guys, are there any other magazines lower on the food chain so to speak?????? Mil PS (The -F- word around our place is" FAT") ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:28 PM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA Darrell, I spent more time reading Kitplanes than I did both "EAA Sport" publications combined before I dropped Sport Pilot. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 7:38 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EAA Darrell, Since you plan to build, Kitplanes has been excellent for builders recently. They are currently running a series about building a fast-build 601 XL kit with a Corvair engine. It also has good "how to" articles in each edition. Jeff do not archive this either ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Downey Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 7:53 AM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA I get both of them and there is a lot of duplication. Sport Aviation is still the instrument of choice for the moneyed and Sport Pilot is not much better - but would be my choice if I were only getting one of them do not archive Darrell Haas wrote: In an effort to always learn more about our planes I thought about joining EAA. Which magazine do people recommend for experimental private pilots? The Sport Aviation magazine or the Sport Pilot Magazine. I am a private pilot and will be building a 601 XL but may exercise my rights to be a Sport Pilot as I get older. Thanks for all the great ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:03 PM PST US From: Bob Duns Subject: Zenith-List: 601 fuel & ignition system Jeff Thanks for posting your spreadsheet of parts for fuel and ign system I am another 601 builder that finds this most useful. Bob D. 601HD/Corvair Melfort, SK ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:04 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA Does anybody remember Custom Planes? I'm not sure it's still around. I used to buy it at Tower Records which isn't around either. I've never found it anywhere else. There is a web address but it doesn't answer up. Just curious. Ron On Jul 22, 2007, at 3:26 PM, raymondj wrote: > Darrell, > > I spent more time reading Kitplanes than I did both "EAA Sport" > publications combined before I dropped Sport Pilot. > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > "Hope for the best, > but prepare for the worst." > > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 7:38 AM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EAA > > Darrell, > > Since you plan to build, Kitplanes has been excellent > for builders recently. They are currently running a series about > building a fast-build 601 XL kit with a Corvair engine. It also > has good "how to" articles in each edition. > > Jeff > > do not archive this either > > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith- > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Downey > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 7:53 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA > > > I get both of them and there is a lot of duplication. Sport > Aviation is still the instrument of choice for the moneyed and > Sport Pilot is not much better - but would be my choice if I were > only getting one of them > > do not archive > > Darrell Haas wrote: > > In an effort to always learn more about our planes I thought > about joining EAA. Which magazine do people recommend for > experimental private pilots? The Sport Aviation magazine or the > Sport Pilot Magazine. I am a private pilot and will be building a > 601 XL but may exercise my rights to be a Sport Pilot as I get > older. Thanks for all the great > > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see > what's on, when. > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http:// > www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// > forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > =========================================================== > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:58 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: EAA Custom Plane was bought by a "bigger" fish in the Kitplane field and was closed down & the staff let go. If ya can't compete & ya'll have the money, buy them out & shut them down. But "they" did give everyone "'til the end of the week to vacate" no easy way out, Your Gone.. KABONG Do Not Archive >From: Ronald Steele >Date: 2007/07/22 Sun PM 03:24:21 CDT >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA >Does anybody remember Custom Planes? I'm not sure it's still around. I used to buy it at Tower Records which isn't around either. I've never found it anywhere else. There is a web address but it doesn't answer up. Just curious ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:50 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: EAA Would one of our MBAs out there explain (in small words) why anyone wo uld want to buy out a competitor and then kill it off? Selling the bui lding and presses, or tools, makes for a nice one-time profit, but run ning two competitors against each other makes them both improve, and r unning them in tandem makes the beginnings of an empire. Lemme go bac k to nuclear warfare; it was much less complicated.=0A=0APaul Ro driguez=0ADO NOT ARCHIVE=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A From: jhstarn@verizon.net =0A To: ze nith-list@matronics.com =0A Sent : Sunday, July 22, 2007 3:54 PM=0A Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: E zon.net>=0A=0A Custom Plane was bou ght by a "bigger" fish in the Kitplane field and was closed down & the staff let go. If ya can't compete & ya'll have the money, buy them ou t & shut them down. But "they" did give everyone "'til the end of the week to vacate" no easy way out, Your Gone.. KABONG Do Not Archive =0A=0A >From: Ronald Steele >=0A >Date: 2007/07/22 Sun PM 03:24:21 CDT=0A >To: zenit h-list@matronics.com=0A >Subject : Re: Zenith-List: EAA=0A=0A >Does anybody remember Custom Plan es?=C3=82 I'm not sure it's still around. I used to buy it at Tower Re cords which isn't around either.=C3=82 I've never found it anywhere el se.=C3=82 There is a web address but it doesn't answer up.=C3=82 Just ======================= ======================= gator?Zenith-List ======================= ======================= ======================= =========0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:24 PM PST US From: "Gordon" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 neutral position for the stick? I called Zenith with that same question a few weeks ago. Roger said to sit in the plane and find a spot that feel comfortable. Bottom line is that there isn't a designated position. Gordon - Original Message ----- From: Jari Kaija (LapTop2) To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 10:31 AM Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 neutral position for the stick? Hi there! I'm installing controls to my CH701 and I need to know what is a neutral position for Y-Control stick and 7-C-1-1 Horizontal tail bellcrank. Are they both ie. 90 degree angle, when measuring from 7-C-2-2 torgue tube? Drawings says that 7-C-1-3 pitch control rod need to be cut for neutral position, but... :-( btw. I will try to update my www-pages later tonight.... http://www.project-ch701.net ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:57:54 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Anyone flying with the Jab 3300? ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:18 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Anyone flying with the Jab 3300? The question that disappeared is I do not like redrives and this eliminates the Subaru and the Rotax. so who is flying with the CH 701 with the Jabiru 3300, which has come way down in price since the last time I looked. Joe Motis Do not archive ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:24 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Re: Zenith-List: EAA Paul, I'm not an MBA, but it goes like this. In the end companies are primarily responsible for making a profit. Say company x has 30 percent of a market. Buying a competitor (company y) that has 20 percent gives company x 50 percent of the market in a flash. It is the fastest way to grow the business quickly. Along the way, company x gets whatever product earned Company Y 20 percent of the market to begin with. And customers have fewer options. Now look at the avionics market. Not long ago Garmin was an unknown. Bendix-King, Apollo, Narco, and others were it. Most of these companies were bought by someone. And there were new competitors like Becker and the Australian firms. Garmin had lots of know-how and built great products eclipsing the May-Tag of avionics Bendix-King. Then it bought Apollo (aka UPS). It not only got market share there, it also got a great product the SL30 NAV/COM. Through good products and great business moves, Garmin dominates the avionics market today. The Southern Aviator publication was purchased a while back. Just this month I got the notice it will stop being published. The writers that made it a great regional paper, since they were what made the paper grow, are now going to write for the new owners' publication gaining the market share and a better product. That should result in more ad sales for them. Jeff D Please do not archive this! _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paulrod36@msn.com Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 5:19 PM Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: EAA Would one of our MBAs out there explain (in small words) why anyone would want to buy out a competitor and then kill it off? Selling the building and presses, or tools, makes for a nice one-time profit, but running two competitors against each other makes them both improve, and running them in tandem makes the beginnings of an empire. Lemme go back to nuclear warfare; it was much less complicated. Paul Rodriguez DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: jhstarn@verizon.net Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 3:54 PM Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: EAA Custom Plane was bought by a "bigger" fish in the Kitplane field and was closed down & the staff let go. If ya can't compete & ya'll have the money, buy them out & shut them down. But "they" did give everyone "'til the end of the week to vacate" no easy way out, Your Gone.. KABONG Do Not Archive >From: Ronald Steele >Date: 2007/07/22 Sun PM 03:24:21 CDT >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA >Does anybody remember Custom Planes?=C2 I'm not sure it's still around. I used to buy it at Tower Records which isn't around either.=C2 I've never found it anywhere else.=C2 There is a web address but it doesn't answer up.=C2 Just curious <=======================p; - The Zenith-Listnbsp; --> ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:24 PM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA Ron, I subscribed to Custom Planes about a year ago. About 3 months later I got a notice that it had been swallowed by Plane and Pilot but would live on as a column in the mag. I was given the balance of the subscription for Plane and Pilot (whoopie). Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Steele To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 3:24 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA Does anybody remember Custom Planes? I'm not sure it's still around. I used to buy it at Tower Records which isn't around either. I've never found it anywhere else. There is a web address but it doesn't answer up. Just curious. Ron On Jul 22, 2007, at 3:26 PM, raymondj wrote: Darrell, I spent more time reading Kitplanes than I did both "EAA Sport" publications combined before I dropped Sport Pilot. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 7:38 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EAA Darrell, Since you plan to build, Kitplanes has been excellent for builders recently. They are currently running a series about building a fast-build 601 XL kit with a Corvair engine. It also has good "how to" articles in each edition. Jeff do not archive this either ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Downey Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 7:53 AM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA I get both of them and there is a lot of duplication. Sport Aviation is still the instrument of choice for the moneyed and Sport Pilot is not much better - but would be my choice if I were only getting one of them do not archive Darrell Haas wrote: In an effort to always learn more about our planes I thought about joining EAA. Which magazine do people recommend for experimental private pilots? The Sport Aviation magazine or the Sport Pilot Magazine. I am a private pilot and will be building a 601 XL but may exercise my rights to be a Sport Pilot as I get older. Thanks for all the great ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com - The Zenith-List Email Forum class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - class="Apple-converted-space"> --> http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:45 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Anyone flying with the Jab 3300? Joe, The problem with the 3300 is that it requires airspeed and lots of cooling to stay healthy in the air. This is contrary to the speed and envelope that is the 701. You can do it, but I'd be reluctant to suggest it would be a wise choice of the engines available. I haven't heard of any Rotax or Subaru redrive failing for quite a while,,,,,,, years maybe. The redrive allows a water cooled engine to reach rpm and torque optimums with a larger prop that can pull effectively. The 3300 would require more than a low gear prop to survive and the reduced price and testosterone that puts one on a 701 won't solve that problem. Think of taking a Merlin engine from a Mustang which had cooling problems on the ground and putting it in a Ford Tri-Motor. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Joemotis@aol.com wrote: > The question that disappeared is I do not like redrives and this > eliminates the Subaru and the Rotax. so who is flying with the CH 701 > with the Jabiru 3300, which has come way down in price since the last > time I looked. > > Joe Motis > Do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:32 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Anyone flying with the Jab 3300? At 04:24 PM 7/22/2007, you wrote: >The problem with the 3300 is that it requires airspeed and lots of >cooling to stay healthy in the air. An even bigger problem is the specification (on the ZAC web site) that limits the 701 to 100 HP max. The Jab 3300 can reasonably be expected to provide 130 hp at full power. As a minimum, you would need to get designer approval of this much horsepower for this airframe. The risk is that the engine will overpower the flight controls under certain conditions that can result in an unrecoverable loss of control. I am not an aero engineer and don't remember exactly which combinations can cause problems, but I think they are all found when you are low and slow and probably close to the ground as well. This is the kind of condition you might find when attempting a go-around because something is in the way of you landing. The results are certain to be fatal. Paul XL fuselage ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:30 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Don't forget Monday Night Chat From: "leinad" Don't forget Monday Night is chat night for Zenith builders. Join in the comradery beginning around 8:00 PM EST. Dan (601XL/Corvair plans builder) http://chat.iahu.ca/ -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125270#125270 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:59 PM PST US From: Joemotis@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 Anyone flying with the Jab 3300? Thanks Larry Joe Motis Do not archive. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:26 PM PST US From: Elden Jacobson Subject: Zenith-List: Documenting construction I am neaarly ready to begin. The 601 quick-build is here, as is a new 3300. I have acquired the various tools needed, and have been reading widely (including this list, for the last four or so months). My wife and I have completed the rudder workshop. Documenting the construction process seems obviously necessary, and I have been impressed by the several websites that builders have created. But I've little sense as to how you builders have gone about this task of leaving a trail. Ideas on how this is being accomplished would be very welcome. Thanks, Elden Jacobson --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:34 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Anyone flying with the Jab 3300? From: "jetboy" Joe, I used a 2200 for some of the reasons above. Additionally, a friend has has his 912UL redrive fail requiring new clutch parts @ 150 hrs and a month later a sprag clutch on the starter. This is a no prop strike treated like eggs 80hp engine. The 3300 will only do 105 hp, so could be derated for the 701 but the cooling problem will remain. Someone put a Corvair on a 701 here and 20 hrs later they have the engine for sale because a 2200 is going on. I dont know the reason, but the Corvair (and 3300) is outside the ZAC limits for TP10141E certification which is required here to operate as a microlight. I will follow this thread with interest as I like a fallback option for my 701, should the 2200 give any problem. current thinking is a 912UL with the updated rear ring mount system. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125291#125291 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:09 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Documenting construction From: "lwinger" Welcome, Elden...and congratulations! For those of us who don't have prior experience setting up websites (or those of us who do, but would rather spend our time building), a great solution is www.kitlog.com. If you would like to see the format, check out www.mykitlog.com/lwinger for my entries. Each entry can include up to 3 pictures, and it is easy for others to search by category or date. It takes about 5 minutes to install and set-up, and the price is right at $49.95. That gives you the program on your computer and a weblog (included in the price). Best of all, it was recently purchased by Matronics, and Matt has already made some improvements in what was already a very solid program. Good luck on your building adventure. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL/Corvair from scratch Control surfaces and wing spars complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125295#125295 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.