---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/25/07: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:24 AM - Re: Re: 601XL fuel sender (Clive Richards) 2. 03:18 AM - Re: torque wrench (David Downey) 3. 06:13 AM - Re: torque wrench (Robert Schoenberger) 4. 06:36 AM - Re: 601XL fuel sender (Gig Giacona) 5. 07:16 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 07/24/07 (Joe) 6. 07:16 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 07/24/07 (Joe) 7. 07:19 AM - Re: torque wrench (LarryMcFarland) 8. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: WW 601 Fuel and Ign System Parts list UPDATE (LarryMcFarland) 9. 08:25 AM - Re: WW 601 Fuel and Ign System Parts list (Gig Giacona) 10. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: 601XL fuel sender (Clive Richards) 11. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: AMD Patriot (George Harris) 12. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: 601XL fuel sender (Craig Payne) 13. 10:44 AM - Re: Jab3300 alternator (Matt & Jo) 14. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: AMD Patriot (Juan Vega) 15. 10:57 AM - More torque wrench (Zed Smith) 16. 01:22 PM - Re: torque wrench (milreed) 17. 02:22 PM - Re: torque wrench (ashontz) 18. 02:28 PM - Re: More torque wrench (ashontz) 19. 04:23 PM - Jabiru 3300 PMA (howado1@comcast.net) 20. 05:01 PM - Pucker Factor (wade jones) 21. 05:15 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 PMA (Craig Payne) 22. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 07/24/07 (Arthur Olechowski) 23. 05:49 PM - Re: Pucker Factor (George Swinford) 24. 06:14 PM - Cowl Gappage (kkinney) 25. 06:15 PM - Re: Pucker Factor (LarryMcFarland) 26. 09:08 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 07/24/07 (Noel Loveys) 27. 09:21 PM - Re: AMD Patriot (jsight) 28. 09:32 PM - Re: Re: AMD Patriot (NYTerminat@aol.com) 29. 10:08 PM - Re: torque wrench (Bob Duns) 30. 10:12 PM - Re: Pucker Factor (xl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:39 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel sender Alan If you did read my previous reply it was incorrect I had the sence wrong. I fitted DATCON gauges with universal senders to Rays The resistances were 33 ohms Full 240 Ohms Empty. You can compair with your working side. So if the wire to sender is open circuit to ground you may have lost the tank ground. I assume you fitted one as the tanks are insulated with cork and should be grounded to airframe to prevent static differences. Also if you are relying on this to ground the sender is the sender grounded to the tank and not insulated by the gaskets The universal sender I fitted was designed to be grounded by a staple through the gasket to the tank which I thought would be unreliable so I fitted a ground wire. Clive Richards RAYS 601HD G CBDG 140 Hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: "AlanSmith" Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:52 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel sender > > I?Tll check the resistance on the sender wire, that?Ts a good tip. I > would like to avoid drilling out my sender access covers, and messing up > our new paint, but expect it to come to that eventually. > > The failure must be something other than a physically stuck float, because > it failed when we had about 6 gallons in the tank. I suppose the float > could be sitting on the bottom of the tank, with a hole in it... I have > attempted to look into the tank with a mirror, but have not been able to > get the right angle and the right light. > > When the sender was working, it worked well. We were getting reasonable > readings in gallon increments. The float hits the top of travel at > about 13 gallons, so it can?Tt see 14 and 15. When the gauge reads 0 > gallons, we still have about 2/3 of a gallon, but that?Ts close enough to > zero for me. > > Thanks for all the input. > > -------- > Alan Smith > Zodiac 601 N601FW > oaksnspokes@earthlink.net > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125545#125545 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:43 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: torque wrench Hi Carlos; This is not meant to be offesnive in any way - smiply information that is critical. The use of a torque wrench is a skill - and MANY ways of using it will result in incorrect values. This is one place where I cannot think of any source other than the AC65-9, -12, or -15 that MIGHT define limits for use. Among the issues involved in the use of a torque wrench: Use a torque wrench in such a way that the force applied to the end of the handle is the only force applied to the fastener; take pains to isolate gripping or positioning forces (hand over the socket end to position, etc) from adding or reducing the torque applied/measured. Do not torque the head of a fastener unless specifically instructed to and the torque requirement listed is for that condition. Since the bolt "washer face" is turning with the bolt and not providing an intermediate sliding interface like a washer under a nut, there is a torque value that is related to that condition - as there is for any shank friction between the fastener and the stack clamped. Make sure that the threads are dry or lubricated as specified in the instruction as that will grossly affect the clamping force of the fastener. If torque is required on a "self-locking" nut make sure that you measure the "running torque" or the torque value that is required to simply run the nut down the threads due to the locking feature of the nut. Usually the running torque is added to the torque required for the installation. The use of an extension arm or crows foot wrench with a torque wrench involve other considerations. Refer to the referenced ACs. Jeyoung65@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 7/24/2007 10:11:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, carlossa52@gmail.com writes: Carlos Carlos, you are right, 1/4, 3/8. and 1/2 is the size of the sq. drive. 3/8 would be a good size for building this aircraft. Jerry Ga DO NOT ARCHIVE --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:10 AM PST US From: Robert Schoenberger Subject: Re: Zenith-List: torque wrench try Harbor Freight. Robert Schoenberger do not archive Carlos Sa wrote: > Hello, all > > > I am ready to acquire a torque wrench. (Actually, it'll have to be two > - read on.) > I took a look on the net and found a wide range of prices (from around > $30 to many hundreds). > Then I searched the Z-list archives and found several tips. This one, > in response to a query from Bill Morelli is on top of my list: > > **I have two torque wrenches. One 20 to 200 Inch/Lbs. The other is 10 to 150 > Foot/Lbs. > Bought them from JC Whitney $22 for one and $24 (US) for the other. > > Leo Gates > ** > These wrenches are still in the approximate price range, even though > the posting dates to July 31, 1998! > http://www.jcwhitney.com > > QUESTION: the specs mention 1/4" and 1/2" drive (and some others > 3/8"). Is that the size of the square "peg" where the socket inserts? > > Thanks in advance > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > Montreal, Canada > > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:26 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel sender From: "Gig Giacona" Is there a Capacitance sender that could be installed into the top location of the 601XL tank? I've got to reopen the wings of mine because I changing the type of fuel line installed and now I think the the Capacitance might be a better way to go. Anyone thought out the pros and cons of the options? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125628#125628 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:07 AM PST US From: "Joe" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 07/24/07 Here is a link to the AT-6 which landed on a highway outside of Oshkosh with an engine failure. http://ugv.abcnews.go.com/Player.aspx?id=541864 Joe in Oshkosh ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:07 AM PST US From: "Joe" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 07/24/07 Here is a link to the AT-6 which landed on a highway outside of Oshkosh with an engine failure. http://ugv.abcnews.go.com/Player.aspx?id=541864 Joe in Oshkosh ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:43 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: torque wrench Carlos, The ranges you've selected are fine. The ground adjustable prop is probably where most of your repeat tightening will occur. I'd look carefully at the head size for its clearance within the hub on a nut. Otherwise, you'll find the torque wrench has to be applied to the bolt from outside on the front face. I recommend you go with 3/8" if that's what's mostly in your tool box. Not sure why it seems that only expensive torque wrenches have good clearance heads. That by itself is not a deal breaker. Torquing the bolt rather than the nut is acceptable when necessary. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Carlos Sa wrote: > Hello, all > > > I am ready to acquire a torque wrench. (Actually, it'll have to be two > - read on.) > I took a look on the net and found a wide range of prices (from around > $30 to many hundreds). > Then I searched the Z-list archives and found several tips. This one, > in response to a query from Bill Morelli is on top of my list: > > **I have two torque wrenches. One 20 to 200 Inch/Lbs. The other is 10 to 150 > Foot/Lbs. > Bought them from JC Whitney $22 for one and $24 (US) for the other. > > Leo Gates > ** > These wrenches are still in the approximate price range, even though > the posting dates to July 31, 1998! > http://www.jcwhitney.com > > QUESTION: the specs mention 1/4" and 1/2" drive (and some others > 3/8"). Is that the size of the square "peg" where the socket inserts? > > Thanks in advance > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > Montreal, Canada > > *================================ > > * ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:19 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: WW 601 Fuel and Ign System Parts list UPDATE Hi Bob, FP could mean Facet Pump,,,, by a supplier that sells more than one mfr type of pumps. Larry do not archive Bob Duns wrote: > Hi: > > Thanks for updated list of fuel and Ign system parts. > > You list facet fuel pump FP 40108 @ 13.40. Do you know the difference > between an FP 40108 and a plain 40108. Wicks lists FP 40108 and AS > lists 40108 @ 38.50 , no FP 40108. What does the "FP" mean. > > Thanks. > > Bob D. > 601HD/Corvair ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: WW 601 Fuel and Ign System Parts list From: "Gig Giacona" Is this the hose used for the WW fuel lines? Aeroquip AQP Stainless Steel Braided HoseHigh performance hose for safe, sure plumbing. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AER%2DFCA0620&N=700+300079+4294906619+115&autoview=sku -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125638#125638 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:34 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel sender Gig We have a capacitance type fitted in the side of the header tank which works ok after we fitted a 12.5 volt regulator to supply it. It will not see the top 2 inches. I fitted Datcon resistive type in the end of the wing tanks with difficulty as we did not want to open the wings & the capacitor type would not fit in this location. (Thought we did not need gauges as we had header tank but found out they were mandatory in UK).Will indicate from about the first 5 to 40 litres. the indication is reasonably steady when you are flying straight & level. A fellow builder on the airfield fitted capacitance type in his HDS wing tanks & says he only gets a reliable reading on the ground, I assume he fitted the bendable type in the top and the fuel sloshes up & down the measuring section. Note you can only bend a short length at the top not the working part. The straight type may be ok but due to slope of tank you are limited to ammount you can measure. Both types are in Aircraft Spruce catalogue. Clive Richards Ray Lasnier 601 HD G CBDG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gig Giacona" Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel sender > > > Is there a Capacitance sender that could be installed into the top > location of the 601XL tank? > > I've got to reopen the wings of mine because I changing the type of fuel > line installed and now I think the the Capacitance might be a better way > to go. > > Anyone thought out the pros and cons of the options? > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125628#125628 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:57 AM PST US From: "George Harris" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Patriot Oh yeah! That's the airplane. That is the one I want ;) Anybody want to buy a RANS S-16 kit real reasonable ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "LouB" Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 4:56 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Patriot > > There is a picture of the AMD Patriot at this N > Blog site. Click on the picture to enlarge it. > > http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com/ > > Looks like the 750 that was referred to in the RAA article several years ago > > Lou > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125580#125580 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/183amandpatriotateastmanmay2007_158.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:50 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL fuel sender The downside to capacitive probes is that they give different readings for different fuel composition. So avgas will differ significantly from mogas. And given the funky things that happen with the blends of mogas you could even get changes in calibration between fill-ups. IMHO I would only use a capacitive probe if I was going to use avgas exclusively. Mechanically the capacitive probes are (literally) flexible in their installation. The actual sensor is just a hollow tube with an electrically isolated wire inside. The two form the "plates" of the capacitor. If your gauge or probe can be calibrated then you can cut and bend a probe to fit your tank. Here is one source: http://centroidproducts.com/ -- Craig ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:06 AM PST US From: "Matt & Jo" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jab3300 alternator I modified Z-16 for use with my Jab 3300. I have is available on my website. I converted it to Delta cad and have it there in both deltacad and PDF. http://www.zodiacxl.com/Electrical.html Hope this helps Cheers Matt www.zodiacxl.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 2:44 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Jab3300 alternator > > A question for users of the Jab3300: have you been able to wire the > alternator regulator into one of the Z- schematics by Bob Knukolls? How > do you shut off the alternator? As you probably know, the wiring diagrams > in the Jab manual, pages 54 and 65, are inconsistent. Any of you sorted > this out? > Comments wil be greatly appreciated. > Howard Carter > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:15 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Patriot too bad, you should join AOPA as well, you get the mag for free. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: StolBrit >Sent: Jul 24, 2007 12:47 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Patriot > > >Thanks Juan, but like the guys at the beginning of the thread, I don't have access to a copy of the AOPA mag. > >I guess it will appear on the Zenair or AMD website in due course. > >Regards, > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125507#125507 > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:49 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: More torque wrench do not archive Mention was made earlier as to accuracy of various torque wrenches. Some years ago a field mechanic for Caterpillar told me that their wrenches were tested occasionally. Said they had, and most larger Cat distributors also had, a real test fixture for this purpose. When they were in the field and were in doubt, or just wanted to check one, they clamped a known good one in a vise and used a double-female very short "extension" to attach the unknown to the known and pulled on the free handle until the known read full scale....then checked the reading on the suspect wrench. Said they could check at any point across the range of a given wrench. This method may not be suitable for NASA, but he swears it works very well for checking (not calibrating), provided a known "good" wrench is used. Let the flames begin. Regards to all, Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc/do not archive. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:04 PM PST US From: "milreed" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: torque wrench I find the HF 1/4 " drive air impact wrench very useful, small, light, and fast. Be careful not to over torque. Use adapters for other sizes. Mil ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:03 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: torque wrench From: "ashontz" [quote="milreed(at)wildblue.net"]I find the HF 1/4 " drive air impact wrench very useful, small, light, and fast. Be careful not to over torque. Use adapters for other sizes. Mil > [b] I hope you don't use that as a torque wrench. A torque wrench is intended to torque a nut (or bolt) down to a specific torque value, not just "hey that's purdy tight." -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125670#125670 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: More torque wrench From: "ashontz" How did they know the good one was good? I guess a better method would be to clamp the torque wrench perpendicular to the floor and then add a given weight (say 80 lbs) to the handle of the torque wrench at the 1 foot mark on the handle from the center of the socket fitting and see that the wrench reads 80ft-lbs. That's probably how NASA would do it. Actually, NASA would do it that way, but it would involve 14 engineers each making $180,000/yr, 2 project plans, 4 revisions, a committee meeting, a follow up meeting, a meeting with the dept of weights and measures, a $1,200 dinner and drinks working meeting with the head of the dept of weights and measures, another project revision, and finally wrapped up with acceptance testing, only to find out they did it in metric rather than US English measurements. zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.ne wrote: > do not archive > > Mention was made earlier as to accuracy of various torque wrenches. > > Some years ago a field mechanic for Caterpillar told me that their wrenches were tested occasionally. > Said they had, and most larger Cat distributors also had, a real test fixture for this purpose. > > When they were in the field and were in doubt, or just wanted to check one, they clamped a known good one in a vise and used a double-female very short "extension" to attach the unknown to the known and pulled on the free handle until the known read full scale....then checked the reading on the suspect wrench. > > Said they could check at any point across the range of a given wrench. > > This method may not be suitable for NASA, but he swears it works very well for checking (not calibrating), provided a known "good" wrench is used. > > Let the flames begin. > > Regards to all, > > Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc/do not archive. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125672#125672 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:40 PM PST US From: howado1@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru 3300 PMA Thanks to the responders to my questions about the Jabiru alternator circuitry, esp to Craig Payne. The Z-20 diagram shows the output from the regulator connected to a capacitor. Jabiru does not supply this cap with the engine. The West Coast Jab dealer has, however, put one in his Jab demo aircraft. When you disconnect the alternator from the load the pulse signals from the stator winding drop to a low value, causing the tachometer to drop to zero. The Z-20 diagram shows the red and yellow wires tied together, but the Jabiru schematic separates them, putting the red wire on the bus and the yellow wire on the battery plus terminal. They are separated electrically by a few milliohms, so tying them together probably works. The Jab schematic shows the red wire coming from the regulator pin 5 while Z-20 shows the red wire coming from pin 6. Looks like the red and yellow wires are mixed up. I will try to get Jab to sort this out. Howard Carter ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:49 PM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Zenith-List: Pucker Factor Hello group ,I have just started fitting my middle top skin and will try very hard to not get the dreaded pucker .This is where it makes a compound bend with the forward side skin .ZAC instructions say to back drill to 6-B-12-2 then drill to the longerons then to the tube frames .then install this skin under the forward side skins .Has anyone in the group got by without any pucker in this area .Is there a better sequence for this task. Has anyone let the middle top skin go on top of the forward side skin .All replies will be greatly appreciated . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:58 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jabiru 3300 PMA The Jabiru 3300 Instruction & Maintenance manual shows the internal schematic of the voltage regulator. In the March 2006 version it is in section 7.4.1.6. The one wire is the source of the charge current, the other is the voltage reference line. I believe that the red line is the charge current output while the yellow is the voltage sense but I am only basing this on color coding conventions and the Jabiru schematics. The installation manual shows the red wire going directly to the battery while the yellow is on the other side of the master switch. The reason for two separate wires is so that the sense wire "sees" that actual voltage at the battery without any voltage drop in the charge current wire. The reason offered for not tying the sense wire directly to the battery is that with the engine off a very small amount of current flows into the sense wire which could (over a long period of time) drain the battery. But the whole point of the sense wire is to accurately sense the voltage AT THE BATTERY to correctly charge it. So I'm inclined to tie the two wires in question directly to the battery. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:38 PM PST US From: Arthur Olechowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 07/24/07 That was some awesome piloting. My hats off for him making it down safely with all those moving obstructions. do not archive Art Joe wrote: Here is a link to the AT-6 which landed on a highway outside of Oshkosh with an engine failure. http://ugv.abcnews.go.com/Player.aspx?id=541864 Joe in Oshkosh ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:38 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pucker Factor Hi Wade: Building my 601HD, I dealt with the dreaded pucker in that skin the best way I could. I cut the middle top skin short and used a separate triangular piece on each side to span the two tubular frames. I did this to get a better fit over those two frames, but I think it also made the pucker easier to deal with. Looking at several 601XLs at the Arlington Fly-in a couple of weeks ago, I was struck by how much better it looks to put the side skin over the top skin in that area. One builder assured me that the pucker is still there, you just don't see it. I wish I had thought of that solution. If you put the side skin over the top skin you would have the opportunity to notch the puckered top skin between rivets, which would relieve the pucker somewhat and mostly hide the remainder. Just a thought, for what it's worth. Good luck with it, whatever you decide to do. George ----- Original Message ----- From: wade jones To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 5:00 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Pucker Factor Hello group ,I have just started fitting my middle top skin and will try very hard to not get the dreaded pucker .This is where it makes a compound bend with the forward side skin .ZAC instructions say to back drill to 6-B-12-2 then drill to the longerons then to the tube frames .then install this skin under the forward side skins .Has anyone in the group got by without any pucker in this area .Is there a better sequence for this task. Has anyone let the middle top skin go on top of the forward side skin .All replies will be greatly appreciated . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 7/25/2007 2:55 PM ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:38 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Cowl Gappage From: "kkinney" I have a puzzler - I have a 3/8" gap between the top & bottom cowl, even after cinching it down with a strap clamp. The only way I can see of fixing this it to split the bottom cowl and glass in a little material. Or hitting the firewall with a "Reducto" spell. (Guess what I'm reading!) Does anyone have a better idea? Or maybe ingredients for the Reducto? Thank you in advance, Kevin Kinney Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125699#125699 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:10 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pucker Factor Hi Wade, The best way to avoid "pucker" is to make sure the bows have enough bend in them at the outboard 20% radius. You need to have or add bend radius that will at least make the last 3 inches of bow roll in to parallel with the fuselage side sheets. Only then will the last piece of top skin roll around the fuselage curve without difficulty. The last inch of top skin and the top inch of fuselage must be parallel with no work by the pop rivets to hold an angle. Nearly all the problems with this area come from people having what looks like a fold-edge at the longeron and top skin. I overlapped the top skins to the fuselage, then the forward fuselage sides over the rear and top skins. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/topbaggage.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/rearqtrbubble.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/cnpybowsrearqtr.gif Good luck, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com wade jones wrote: > Hello group ,I have just started fitting my middle top skin and will > try very hard to not get the dreaded pucker .This is where it makes a > compound bend with the forward side skin .ZAC instructions say to back > drill to 6-B-12-2 then drill to the longerons then to the tube frames > .then install this skin under the forward side skins .Has anyone in > the group got by without any pucker in this area .Is there a better > sequence for this task. Has anyone let the middle top skin go on top > of the forward side skin .All replies will be greatly appreciated . > Wade Jones South Texas > 601XL plans building > Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:11 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 07/24/07 You are right about the size of the square pegs. !/4 inch will be for small wrenches and a little device called a torque meter. Great for torque that can be attained with a screwdriver size handle. Next is the 3/8" that is you 20 - 200+ in.lb... The 1/2 will generally be 10 - 200+ft.lb.. There are a few different types of torque wrenches. The one that you have seen in your local car dealership is the click type. You adjust the torque required by turning in out a spring inside the handle. At the appropriate torque you will hear a click designating the torque has been met. The down side of this wrench is it really should be calibrated every so often ( annually ) and it cannot be used for friction torque where you add the torque required just to turn the fibre lock nut on a bolt. The click style wrench is handy because it does have a ratchet drive. Remember to always release the tension on the spring before storing your wrench. The next is the digital torque wrench. This wrench has a load cell built into the handle. You tell it how much torque you want to apply and it will vibrate or beep at you when the torque is met. Calibration is electronic and can be checked annually but by and large should be accurate to less than 1% error. I'm not sure if it can meter the drag for friction torque. The last is the beam wrench. This is a larger wrench which has a pointer attached to the drive end. Torque is measured by the flex in the handle of the wrench. It is easy to use this wrench for friction torque and it almost never will require calibration ( don't drive over it with the pickup!!) You may find versions of the beam wrench with dial readings etc. generally they have no moving parts and are there fore cheaper. Best advice is to get the 1/4 in. torque meter to measure friction torque. Get the 3/8 wrench either beam or click style to do about 99% of the work on your plane. And borrow a 1/2" torque wrench when ever you really need it. Torque wrenches should never be used to remove nuts or bolts only to tighten them. Click style should be calibrated and have the tension slacked off for storage. When torquing a nut/bolt with the click style wrench as soon as the click is heard the fastener is torqued. Clicking two or three times doesn't help. Noel > > Time: 07:10:27 PM PST US > From: "Carlos Sa" > Subject: Zenith-List: torque wrench > > Hello, all > > > I am ready to acquire a torque wrench. (Actually, it'll have > to be two - > read on.) > I took a look on the net and found a wide range of prices > (from around $30 > to many hundreds). > Then I searched the Z-list archives and found several tips. > This one, in > response to a query from Bill Morelli is on top of my list: > > *I have two torque wrenches. One 20 to 200 Inch/Lbs. The > other is 10 to 150 > Foot/Lbs. > Bought them from JC Whitney $22 for one and $24 (US) for the other. > > Leo Gates* > > These wrenches are still in the approximate price range, even > though the > posting dates to July 31, 1998! > http://www.jcwhitney.com > > QUESTION: the specs mention 1/4" and 1/2" drive (and some > others 3/8"). Is > that the size of the square "peg" where the socket inserts? > > Thanks in advance > > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans > Montreal, Canada ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Patriot From: "jsight" I have some pictures of it as well: http://aviationworld.blogspot.com/2007/07/amd-introduces-high-wing-stol-lsa.html -------- Aviation Blog Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125722#125722 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:33 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Patriot Wow, climbs 11,000 feet per minute, what a rocket!!!!!!!! In a message dated 7/26/2007 12:23:01 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jesse.sightler@gmail.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsight" I have some pictures of it as well: http://aviationworld.blogspot.com/2007/07/amd-introduces-high-wing-stol-lsa.ht ml -------- _Aviation Blog_ (http://aviationworld.blogspot.com/) Read this topic online here: ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:24 PM PST US From: Bob Duns Subject: Re: Zenith-List: torque wrench I appreciated the info on toque wrenches because I am learning to use these on my corvair conversion. In his video, WW recommends use of the plain bar type torque wrench rather than the cheap dial type imports which he claims are not consistently accurate. He suggested the one sold by Sears. I purchased a Sears 3/8" ft/lbs for about $20.00 but could not find a Sears torque wrench in in/lbs. I was glad to see the one on this that is available from J.C. Whitney. Bob D. 6012HD/Corvair Melfort, SK ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:38 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pucker Factor I put mine on top to keep the water out. I didn't get much pucker - some, not much. http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/GeorgiaBelle.jpg Joe E N633Z @ BFI CH601XL, Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 49x64 wood prop 469 hours http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/ On Wed, 25 Jul 2007, wade jones wrote: > Hello group ,I have just started fitting my middle top skin and will > try very hard to not get the dreaded pucker .This is where it makes a > compound bend with the forward side skin .ZAC instructions say to back > drill to 6-B-12-2 then drill to the longerons then to the tube frames > .then install this skin under the forward side skins .Has anyone in the > group got by without any pucker in this area .Is there a better sequence > for this task. Has anyone let the middle top skin go on top of the > forward side skin .All replies will be greatly appreciated . > Wade Jones South Texas > 601XL plans building > Cont. 0200 > do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.