---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/28/07: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:21 AM - Re: Comparative "brand" question... (Ron Lendon) 2. 07:32 AM - Re: AMD Patriot (SWeidemann) 3. 08:08 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! (C Smith) 4. 08:45 AM - Re: AMD Patriot (jsight) 5. 10:37 AM - dual stick versus y-yoke (kristin & morten) 6. 11:08 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! (Dave G.) 7. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: Empty Messages (Terry Phillips) 8. 01:53 PM - Re: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! (Malcolm Hunt) 9. 01:56 PM - Re: Comparative "brand" question... (LarryMcFarland) 10. 02:11 PM - wing assembly & torque wrench (Carlos Sa) 11. 02:49 PM - Re: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! (C Smith) 12. 04:39 PM - Re: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! (George Swinford) 13. 05:52 PM - Disappointed at Oshkosh (Tim Juhl) 14. 06:09 PM - juhl@avci.net (Edward Moody II) 15. 06:15 PM - Re: Disappointed at Oshkosh (Bryan Martin) 16. 06:30 PM - Re: juhl@avci.net (Ben52425@aol.com) 17. 06:47 PM - Re: Prop bolt torque (dj45) 18. 07:11 PM - Re: Comparative "brand" question... (Avidmagnum) 19. 07:44 PM - Re: dual stick versus y-yoke (Gig Giacona) 20. 08:35 PM - Re: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! (Ron Lalonde) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Comparative "brand" question... From: "Ron Lendon" I am building a 601xl but one thing to know about the Heintz designs is, "One person can do most of the work alone". I asked him this question this year at SnF and he confirmed, it was planned that way. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126005#126005 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:01 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Patriot From: "SWeidemann" Greetings, I was at Oshkosh on Wednesday and made an effort to find the AMD Patriot. The only info I got was from a gent at the Zenith booth who said it wasn't at the show and the AOPA article was premature. He didn't volunteer much information other than that and seemed a little peeved that I was asking about it (and I think he wished I would stop asking and go away). Is there trouble in the family? What's up? -------- WestSouthWest Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126013#126013 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:57 AM PST US From: "C Smith" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! Vendors don't set the shipping costs, guys. This post is about the fast service I got from Aircraft Spruce. FedEx ground got it to me in 2 days. Don't know how much 6 AN6-27A bolts weigh, but anything across the border costs more. USPS flat rate boxes can be a deal or a rip off depending on weight of shipped items. I don't know if the commercial carriers offer similar options to flat rate. I just looked down the list offered at he end of the order. It was $11.38 to ship $125 of merchandise. 10% roughly. Not a big deal. The cross border costs get complicated, don't know what options were offered to you. Once you go from an envelope to a box, the shippers make a big leap in cost. Now if the vendor is drastically inflating the actual shipping with a userous handling add-on, then that would be a legitimate beef against Aircraft Spruce, but I've seen no evidence that they are. When not using a flat rate box, the cost of packaging has to be recovered (even with a flat rate box, there's still handling in picking and packing), that's just business, all vendors recover these costs. The smaller the order the less efficient any purchase will be. In running a large business like Aircraft Spruce and the huge variety of product, there has to be some streamlining of picking packing and shipping, otherwise the actual costs of handling will actually go up, due to the greater time involved in more specialized packing materials and processing the order. Yes, in the end the smallest orders are the least efficient to ship, this is true of all vendors, not just Aircraft Spruce. If I go to the hardware store, burn 1/2 gallon of gas to pick up a couple of things for a project, say they cost $2.50, the 1/2 gallon of gas is a buck 75. But I need the stuff for the project today. So I do it and get it done. Or I can wait till my list has say 15-20 things on it and they cost $55 it's still the same 1/2 gallon of gas. And my cost for getting the stuff has decreased proportionally. But, I have to wait till I figure out what other things I need, so there are a couple of projects partially completed as I find things I don't have to fill up the list. For the fellow in Canada, I'd say try to find a vendor in your province, or you have stumbled on a great business opportunity, start your own company providing the stuff home builders need in the great white north. I just don't see the problem as Aircraft Spruce, if someone can show they are charging over 35% of actual shipping cost to pick and pack, that would be cause for alarm. CS Cost to mail via USPS - 6 AN6-27A bolts to Canada.....over 20 dollars. UPS, well they are ridiculous as ever. Aircraft Spruce might be amazing, but the shipping costs are laughable!!! >I have the most economical shipping lately by FedEx .Small envelope UPS >$9.12 , Larger envelope US Post office $4.50 and large box by FedEx $7.95 >.All coming from equal distances . Still sore about UPS charge for ounces . >Wade Jones South Texas >601XL plans building >Cont. 0200 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: C Smith > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:44 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! > > > placed order Wednesday online, 8 items from various parts of catalog, >selected most economical shipping (FedEx gnd) and order is waiting for me >upon returning home from work today. > Way to go. > CS ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AMD Patriot From: "jsight" SWeidemann wrote: > Greetings, > > I was at Oshkosh on Wednesday and made an effort to find the AMD Patriot. The only info I got was from a gent at the Zenith booth who said it wasn't at the show and the AOPA article was premature. He didn't volunteer much information other than that and seemed a little peeved that I was asking about it (and I think he wished I would stop asking and go away). Is there trouble in the family? What's up? That is interesting news. I hadn't heard anything about them other than the AOPA article, and I guess this explains it. I wonder what is going on? Have they still not decided to produce the airplane yet? Anyway, it is all very strange for an aircraft that I had heard could be introduced as early as October. -------- Aviation Blog Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126018#126018 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:11 AM PST US From: kristin & morten Subject: Zenith-List: dual stick versus y-yoke Hi! I hope to be a future 601 builder, and get this list in my e-mail each day. Interessting reading! I have a question: how is the dual stick to operate with a kneeboard straped on your thigh? Which stick do you prefere? Regards Morten Lund! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:30 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! ----- Original Message ----- From: "C Smith" Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:08 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! > > Vendors don't set the shipping costs, guys. This post is about the fast > service I got from Aircraft Spruce. > > > Cost to mail via USPS - 6 AN6-27A bolts to Canada.....over 20 dollars. > UPS, > well they are ridiculous as ever. > Aircraft Spruce might be amazing, but the shipping costs are laughable!!! > > I've always got great service from Aircraft Spruce. But they are sometimes not great at following instructions. I do not EVER select UPS for shipping as their border charges are darn near criminal. USPS on the other hand is pretty reasonable. Aircraft Spruce fairly often fails to ship using my preffered method. I now get quite insitant that they repeat back to me that they will ship via post or from their new store in Canada. In all other respects they've been great. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:40:59 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Empty Messages David I, too, often cannot see your messages. In this one I could see the link to Sheldon Brown, but if there was anything else it vanished. I use Eudora 5.2 on PC to read mail, and none of the available mail viewing options make your messages visible. But, Thank you for the link to Sheldon Brown. I haven't looked at his site for a couple of years. It is a terrific reference for technical info about bikes. When I was a regular bike commuter (i.e., until the day I retired), I got a lot of excellent repair info from his site. His Torque Grip wrench gave me a good laugh. The scale is priceless. Terry At 08:36 AM 7/27/2007 -0700, you wrote: >http://sheldonbrown.com/tork-grip.html > >Al Hays wrote: > >After seeing your notes, I just checked and found if I select Plain >Text Alternative, the message content appears. I'm using a Mac. I'd >been experiencing the same thing and thought "send" key might have been >hit by mistake before composing message. Thanks for letting me know >there is message content to be found. I agree about the informative >and useful "missing" content generously being shared. > >Al >701&601 Corvair > >On Jul 27, 2007, at 9:49 AM, Carlos Sa wrote: > > > Same happens to me, but Dave is not the only source of apparently > > empty messages. > > I am using Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:50 PM PST US From: "Malcolm Hunt" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! Guys I think ACS must have a minimum charge for shpping of $20 as I have noticed on the larger consignments to this side of the pond charges are reasonalble but I have just bought a small part and charged $20. Bit much though when, as recently the part was part of a larger consignment and on back order. Regards Malcolm Hunt CH601XL Plans builder in England ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave G." Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "C Smith" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:08 PM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! > > >> >> Vendors don't set the shipping costs, guys. This post is about the fast >> service I got from Aircraft Spruce. > > > >> >> Cost to mail via USPS - 6 AN6-27A bolts to Canada.....over 20 dollars. >> UPS, >> well they are ridiculous as ever. >> Aircraft Spruce might be amazing, but the shipping costs are laughable!!! >> >> > > I've always got great service from Aircraft Spruce. But they are sometimes > not great at following instructions. I do not EVER select UPS for shipping > as their border charges are darn near criminal. USPS on the other hand is > pretty reasonable. Aircraft Spruce fairly often fails to ship using my > preffered method. I now get quite insitant that they repeat back to me > that they will ship via post or from their new store in Canada. In all > other respects they've been great. > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:32 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Comparative "brand" question... Hi David, On looking at RANS aircraft and performance specs, I can appreciate why you'd be taken by the S6. It's a clean design that is nicely done, flies faster and farther than the 701 with the same engine. It wouldn't land or take off in anything as short as the 701 and the 701 will never go as fast or as far as the S6. Your decision is more of what do you want to do with this aircraft. It compares more comfortably with the 601 series Zenith. I'd not trade the short field capabilities of the 701 for the speed and distance of the S6 unless you've lots of opportunities to fly into unimproved areas or grass strips a majority of the time. On steel tube and or aluminum construction, I prefer aluminum, but it is possible to put a steel tube fuselage on its gear in just a few days, contrarily the aluminum fuselage takes a little longer. I'd decide on the *performance you want rather* than the kind of construction required. Both companies are leaders in what they do. You might try flying the 701 in the Microsoft Flight Simulator to get a feel for it. Floats would seem more practical for a 801 than a 701. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive (an opinion is nothing more) David Brooks wrote: > Please don't let this dissolve in to a brand flame fest - I am really > trying to get honest, grounded opinions, not flames. > > First the back story: I became interested in building an LSA, > low-and-slow aircraft a couple of years ago when a friend of mine > pointed me at the RANS S7. I poked around, read what I could find on > the web and eventually stumbled on the RANS yahoo group. I have been > a member of that group ever since and I have to say that it is as good > a community of folks as you find here. They are just as passionate > about flying, building, and especially their 'brand' of choice. > > I was very close to pulling the trigger on ordering a Super6 kit with > 912ULS engine when a friend forwarded along a link to a video of a 701 > doing takeoffs and landings from what looked like a small ramp in > front of a hanger. Since my ultimate goal is to put a plane on > floats, this was obviously and intriguing to me. Poking around the > web again finally brought me to this list - and I am just as impressed > with the quality of the help, the information and, again, the passion > for the brand. (If anything, the builders on this list tend to be > more hard core in that there are lots of folks here building from > plans and that just doesn't happen with the RANS planes.) > > So my question to the group is this: what is the general opinion of > the quality, utility and "flyability" of the RANS planes? I know that > this is a little like comparing apples to oranges in that most of the > RANS line is fabric covered (the new S19 which just flew for the first > time will be all hard skinned), but I would like to hear what you all > have to say about the quality of the planes once they are complete and > what you may have heard about the the quality of the kits. > > I am still thinking that a 701 on amphibious floats would add up to a > really nice way to spend a summer day, but there is a part of my brain > still rather romantically stuck on the "stick and fabric" S6 and S7. > > Thanks, > > Dave ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:00 PM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Zenith-List: wing assembly & torque wrench Just a quick note to say thanks to all that responded to my two notes: wing assembly (I'll start with the bottom skin) and torque wrench (I am going to order from http://www.bosstoolsupply.com - free shipping and 15% off until Tuesday). Cheers Carlos do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:50 PM PST US From: "C Smith" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! Hmmm.... I paid $11.xx for my last order (5 lbs.) FEDEX Gnd. Something many may not have noticed, there is at the bottom on the shipping page (for online ordering) a section where it says something about backorders and separate shipping charges. I can't quote it exactly right now (and it's not in the printed catalog), but there's something about being able to choose to wait for all items to be shipped together to save the separate shipping charge on a back order. If the shipping method wasn't as you specified, try the customer service number and see if they will straighten it out. They should pay attention to specific shipping instructions, and if someone is dropping the ball, call them on it. If they don't honor a refund or credit of the difference then, that's cause for flaming. I don't know why there is no flat-rate USPS priority mail option. Flat Rate Boxes can be used for both domestic and international shipping: - Available to anywhere in the U.S. for $8.95 - One rate to Canada and Mexico for $23.00 - One rate to all other countries for $37.00 *20 pound maximum for international shipments . The inside dimensions for the two boxes available are 11" x 8.5" x 5.5" and 13.625" x 11.875" x 3.375". The two boxes are different shapes to accommodate a variety of contents. . The contents of the flat rate box must be neatly contained inside the box with adhesive packaging tape. . The box must close securely and retain its shape when taped with adhesive. . The shape of the box may not be changed or enlarged to fit its contents. This is what I generally use when shipping to my customers, as the parcel post rates only get a few bucks cheaper for around 3 lbs.(my average shipment). CS --> Guys I think ACS must have a minimum charge for shpping of $20 as I have noticed on the larger consignments to this side of the pond charges are reasonalble but I have just bought a small part and charged $20. Bit much though when, as recently the part was part of a larger consignment and on back order. Regards Malcolm Hunt CH601XL Plans builder in England ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:39 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! Just a thought: If you are just needing a few common fasteners or fittings and are anywhere near a reasonable sized FBO, try their parts department. Years ago when I was fixing up an old Ercoupe I sometimes bought such parts that way. Also, they can give you a line on the regional parts houses (such as Spencer Aircraft, a great source in the Pacific Northwest). George ----- Original Message ----- From: "C Smith" Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 2:49 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! > > Hmmm.... I paid $11.xx for my last order (5 lbs.) FEDEX Gnd. Something many > may not have noticed, there is at the bottom on the shipping page (for > online ordering) a section where it says something about backorders and > separate shipping charges. I can't quote it exactly right now (and it's not > in the printed catalog), but there's something about being able to choose to > wait for all items to be shipped together to save the separate shipping > charge on a back order. If the shipping method wasn't as you specified, try > the customer service number and see if they will straighten it out. They > should pay attention to specific shipping instructions, and if someone is > dropping the ball, call them on it. If they don't honor a refund or credit > of the difference then, that's cause for flaming. > I don't know why there is no flat-rate USPS priority mail option. > > Flat Rate Boxes can be used for both domestic and international shipping: > > - Available to anywhere in the U.S. for $8.95 > > - One rate to Canada and Mexico for $23.00 > > - One rate to all other countries for $37.00 > > *20 pound maximum for international shipments > . The inside dimensions for the two boxes available are 11" x 8.5" x 5.5" > and 13.625" x 11.875" x 3.375". The two boxes are different shapes to > accommodate a variety of contents. > . The contents of the flat rate box must be neatly contained inside the box > with adhesive packaging tape. > . The box must close securely and retain its shape when taped with adhesive. > . The shape of the box may not be changed or enlarged to fit its contents. > > This is what I generally use when shipping to my customers, as the parcel > post rates only get a few bucks cheaper for around 3 lbs.(my average > shipment). > > CS > > > --> > > Guys > > I think ACS must have a minimum charge for shpping of $20 as I have noticed > on the larger consignments to this side of the pond charges are reasonalble > but I have just bought a small part and charged $20. Bit much though when, > as recently the part was part of a larger consignment and on back order. > > Regards > > Malcolm Hunt > > CH601XL Plans builder in England > > > -- 6:01 PM > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:47 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Disappointed at Oshkosh From: "Tim Juhl" I just finished my last day (of 3) at Oshkosh and was disappointed not to see any Zodiac XL's in attendance other than the two at the factory display. Maybe I didn't look in the right places but there was a whole air force of RV's but no XL's. If we are proud of our machines I think we should show them off! Since mine isn't finished I was unable to do my part but hopefully that time will come. Other than that, Oshkosh was..... well, Oshkosh. Great planes, lots of people, some rain, some sun. In short, a great experience and one I look forward to every year. Tim Juhl -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126079#126079 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:48 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Zenith-List: juhl@avci.net Sorry Tim, not much I can do to help either. I'm at home in LA slogging away at mounting the axles, brakes and wheelpant brackets to the gear legs, forks etc. Even when I finish I dunno about getting up to Oshkosh or over to Sun N Fun. How about Open Hangar Day at the factory? Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Juhl To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 7:51 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Disappointed at Oshkosh I just finished my last day (of 3) at Oshkosh and was disappointed not to see any Zodiac XL's in attendance other than the two at the factory display. Maybe I didn't look in the right places but there was a whole air force of RV's but no XL's. If we are proud of our machines I think we should show them off! Since mine isn't finished I was unable to do my part but hopefully that time will come. Other than that, Oshkosh was..... well, Oshkosh. Great planes, lots of people, some rain, some sun. In short, a great experience and one I look forward to every year. Tim Juhl -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126079#126079 -- 7/28/2007 3:50 PM ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:57 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Disappointed at Oshkosh ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:47 PM PST US From: Ben52425@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: juhl@avci.net TIM THERE WAS 3 ON LINE TUES. MY 601XL IS FLYING IN OHIO WITH A CORVAIR 87 HOUR, S OF FUN BEN ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Prop bolt torque From: "dj45" Thanks for the help. Every thing is now in hand. Every now and then I have a brain fart. -------- Do not archive Dan Stanton 95% done paint to go 801, IO360 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126086#126086 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:41 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Comparative "brand" question... From: "Avidmagnum" I hope this helps....I like Rans and Zenaire aircraft and oun both a 701 in Wisconsin and a S-7 Rans in Florida. Both have Rotax 912uls engines and the 701 is on Czech 1150A amphibs. The Rans S-7 will be put on Czech 1150A floats this winter. My friend Jim has a S-7 on the same amphibs. We get off the water in about the same run and I can land a bit shorter. The Rans will do 104 mph at the same power I need to do 95 without slats 85 with slats. the Rans will outclimb the 701 by a goodly amount. The 701 comes down fast the S-7 glides much better. My favorite plane? The one I'm flying at the time! :D Oh I have some s-6 rans time with the long wing on floats. The speed is more like 100mph and does not get off quite as well as the other 2 but does good ..it needs a bigger ventral fin as it has some adverse yaw. (no big deal) The 701 flys without adverse yaw without a ventral fin. Remember this is only my personal observations. Tom Schulke Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126090#126090 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:33 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick versus y-yoke From: "Gig Giacona" You shouldn't have any problem with a kneeboard and the dual sticks. I'm going with the duals. bisgard(at)hadeland-energ wrote: > Hi! > > I hope to be a future 601 builder, and get this list in my e-mail each day. Interessting reading! I have a question: how is the dual stick to operate with a kneeboard straped on your thigh? Which stick do you prefere? > > Regards Morten Lund! -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126093#126093 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:33 PM PST US From: "Ron Lalonde" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! Thanks for explaining the flat rate shipping to me. Didnt know that companies are doing that. Used to be that someone could mail a small parcel for the actual cost without streamlining the process. I was under the assumption that it was the Postal Service that did this Flat rate billing, and didnt know it was "convenience', time and dollars thing for Aircraft Spruce. Dont get me wrong. I have never had a problem with Aircraft Spruce, service is excellent and part selection is great. Shipping....well....unless you are independantly wealthy you have to wince when you pay for the shipping. UPS brokerage fees are out of this world. I always end up paying for the shipping, since I need the product, but certainly dont have to be pleased about it.....I dont have a choice..everyone knows that. I also understand what you are saying. A person such as myself that is unable to consistently afford to make larger orders, thus ultimately less expensive per capita shipping costs, would be more prudent if I was to wait until I could place a larger order. Us small budget builders used to be the backbone of aircraft building....but things are changing. Aircraft Spruce has however recently (last year I think) opened up in Toronto, Ontario. Unfortunately they dont have the stock available to supply all parts. (The bolts I needed for instance still have to come from either the eastern or western Aircraft Spruce outlets in the USA). Cross border purchases are not and never have been an issue with Aircraft Spruce. Shipping is a necessary evil that adds probably at least 10 percent to the cost of most projects that Canadians build. This is a fact of life I quess. Ron > >Vendors don't set the shipping costs, guys. This post is about the fast >service I got from Aircraft Spruce. FedEx ground got it to me in 2 days. >Don't know how much 6 AN6-27A bolts weigh, but anything across the border >costs more. USPS flat rate boxes can be a deal or a rip off depending on >weight of shipped items. I don't know if the commercial carriers offer >similar options to flat rate. I just looked down the list offered at he end >of the order. It was $11.38 to ship $125 of merchandise. 10% roughly. Not a >big deal. >The cross border costs get complicated, don't know what options were >offered >to you. Once you go from an envelope to a box, the shippers make a big leap >in cost. Now if the vendor is drastically inflating the actual shipping >with >a userous handling add-on, then that would be a legitimate beef against >Aircraft Spruce, but I've seen no evidence that they are. >When not using a flat rate box, the cost of packaging has to be recovered >(even with a flat rate box, there's still handling in picking and packing), >that's just business, all vendors recover these costs. The smaller the >order >the less efficient any purchase will be. In running a large business like >Aircraft Spruce and the huge variety of product, there has to be some >streamlining of picking packing and shipping, otherwise the actual costs of >handling will actually go up, due to the greater time involved in more >specialized packing materials and processing the order. Yes, in the end the >smallest orders are the least efficient to ship, this is true of all >vendors, not just Aircraft Spruce. >If I go to the hardware store, burn 1/2 gallon of gas to pick up a couple >of >things for a project, say they cost $2.50, the 1/2 gallon of gas is a buck >75. But I need the stuff for the project today. So I do it and get it done. >Or I can wait till my list has say 15-20 things on it and they cost $55 >it's >still the same 1/2 gallon of gas. And my cost for getting the stuff has >decreased proportionally. But, I have to wait till I figure out what other >things I need, so there are a couple of projects partially completed as I >find things I don't have to fill up the list. >For the fellow in Canada, I'd say try to find a vendor in your province, or >you have stumbled on a great business opportunity, start your own company >providing the stuff home builders need in the great white north. > >I just don't see the problem as Aircraft Spruce, if someone can show they >are charging over 35% of actual shipping cost to pick and pack, that would >be cause for alarm. >CS > > > >Cost to mail via USPS - 6 AN6-27A bolts to Canada.....over 20 dollars. UPS, >well they are ridiculous as ever. >Aircraft Spruce might be amazing, but the shipping costs are laughable!!! > > > >I have the most economical shipping lately by FedEx .Small envelope UPS > >$9.12 , Larger envelope US Post office $4.50 and large box by FedEx >$7.95 > >.All coming from equal distances . Still sore about UPS charge for ounces >. > >Wade Jones South Texas > >601XL plans building > >Cont. 0200 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: C Smith > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:44 PM > > Subject: Zenith-List: Aircraft Spruce is amazing! > > > > > > placed order Wednesday online, 8 items from various parts of catalog, > >selected most economical shipping (FedEx gnd) and order is waiting for me > >upon returning home from work today. > > Way to go. > > CS > > _________________________________________________________________ Show Your Messenger Buddies How You Really Feel http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.