Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:35 AM - Re: I need to sell these Instruments (secatur)
2. 02:36 AM - Re: Leveling - (Again) (Dave G.)
3. 03:20 AM - Re: Leveling - (Again) (David Downey)
4. 04:25 AM - 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground (Frank Derfler)
5. 06:04 AM - Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground (William Dominguez)
6. 07:18 AM - Made in the USA (LRM)
7. 07:31 AM - Re: juhl@avci.net (japhillipsga@aol.com)
8. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps (Chuck Deiterich)
9. 08:09 AM - Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
10. 08:23 AM - Oh, those cheap imports!! (Zed Smith)
11. 08:33 AM - Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground (Gary Boothe)
12. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps (Robert Hansen)
13. 08:50 AM - Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground ()
14. 08:55 AM - Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground (Jaybannist@cs.com)
15. 09:06 AM - Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground (Gary Boothe)
16. 10:00 AM - Re: Disappointed at Oshkosh (Tim Juhl)
17. 10:26 AM - Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground (Jaybannist@cs.com)
18. 10:49 AM - Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground (Al Young)
19. 11:32 AM - Re: Made in the USA (robert stone)
20. 11:35 AM - Re: More torque wrench (DanielBK)
21. 12:33 PM - Re: More torque wrench (ashontz)
22. 12:44 PM - Re: More torque wrench (ashontz)
23. 12:46 PM - Re: Made in the USA (Robert N. Eli)
24. 12:47 PM - Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground (ashontz)
25. 12:55 PM - Re: Disappointed at Oshkosh (PatrickW)
26. 12:59 PM - Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground (ashontz)
27. 01:14 PM - Re: Leveling - (Again) (Dave G.)
28. 01:16 PM - Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground (ashontz)
29. 01:21 PM - CH601XL in Souuth Jersey (ashontz)
30. 01:30 PM - Re: closing wing (ashontz)
31. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: AMD Patriot (C Smith)
32. 01:34 PM - Re: form blocks (ashontz)
33. 01:34 PM - Re: Made in the USA ()
34. 01:45 PM - Re: Made in the USA (Terry Turnquist)
35. 01:50 PM - Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project (PatrickW)
36. 02:22 PM - Re: Made in the USA (Robert Schoenberger)
37. 03:35 PM - Re: 601XL Fuselage (wade jones)
38. 03:59 PM - Re: Made in the USA (Bill Naumuk)
39. 04:31 PM - Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project (Paul Mulwitz)
40. 04:35 PM - Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project (hillsgun)
41. 04:37 PM - Re: Made in the USA (Paul Mulwitz)
42. 04:47 PM - Zenith builders chat tonight (leinad)
43. 05:18 PM - Re: 601 down in Mojave / Rosemond (Brandon Tucker)
44. 05:35 PM - Re: Zenith builders chat tonight (SABorns@aol.com)
45. 05:37 PM - Leveling - (Again) (4rcsimmons@comcast.net (Rich Simmons))
46. 06:00 PM - Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project (Randy L. Thwing)
47. 06:54 PM - Re: Made in the USA (LRM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: I need to sell these Instruments |
Welcome to the REAL world !!!
IF you WANT to buy it it's worth a Squillion $
IF you want to SELL it it's worth 1/2 ZIP!
Human Nature at it's FINEST!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126297#126297
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Leveling - (Again) |
Just a quick caution about these water levels. Sunshine will seriously
affect their accuracy. If one end is in sun and the other in shade, the
levels can change. Just something to watch out for.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Simmons
To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 12:08 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Leveling - (Again)
Hey list and maybe newbies,
About a week an a half ago, I asked about using the water level method
for setting the upper front longerons and all the other elements during
this time of assembly. If you are close to this area of assembly, you
realize it sets almost all attaching elements except for the tail.
Anyhow, thanks to a list user, he suggested using the single tube
method and it works great.
http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/WaterLevel.htm
I was able to move from front to rear as well as side to side and I
believe with great results. It's I believe a lot more accurate than the
normal bubble level over distance. It is also easier than using the
floor method of leveling the longerins and engine mounts. It's also a
lot easier than using multiple levels.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Leveling - (Again) |
I am not saying you are wrong Dave. All I am saying is that I have used them for
45+years and have never observed that particular phenomenon. I will be even
more anal in the future!
"Dave G." <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: Just a quick caution about these
water levels. Sunshine will seriously affect their accuracy. If one end
is in sun and the other in shade, the levels can change. Just something to watch
out for.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Simmons
To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 12:08 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Leveling - (Again)
Hey list and maybe newbies,
About a week an a half ago, I asked about using the water level method for
setting the upper front longerons and all the other elements during this
time of assembly. If you are close to this area of assembly, you realize it
sets almost all attaching elements except for the tail.
Anyhow, thanks to a list user, he suggested using the single tube method
and it works great.
http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/WaterLevel.htm
I was able to move from front to rear as well as side to side and I believe
with great results. It's I believe a lot more accurate than the normal bubble
level over distance. It is also easier than using the floor method of
leveling the longerins and engine mounts. It's also a lot easier than using
multiple levels.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
Message 4
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| Subject: | 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
I hac some great replies to my question about keeping the airplane on the
ground in a high wind (i.e. Hurricane).
-Using sand bags on the wings is the most practical idea.
-Using swim noodles tied to the wing shows an almost frightening ability to
think "outside the box". Bryan, if I still had a business I'd offer you a
job immediately.
-"Buy more insurance" was good advice from several sources. I'm a 500 hour
pilot and paying about $2.5K annually for the 601. Marathon doesn't have a
good record for wind and flood losses. But, it's fully insured!
-"It's not the wind, it's the water!" was probably right on the money and in
line with experience.
-"Don't worry about it flying away, it's all the other stuff crashing into
it" is also true.
I think the winner is sandbags. Easy to put on and take off. Maybe help to
defeat all kinds of lift including "flat plate lift" described by David.
And cheap! Thanks, Bob!
--
Frank Derfler
-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
(blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com
- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM
-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at
www.KEYSBOATER.com
-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
What about trailering the plane home and store it in your garage, unless you
live in a zone where the storm surge can wipe your home away. Having being living
in "hurricane valley" all my life and having experienced 2 mayor hurricanes
(cat 5), 4 light ones and uncounted tropical storms, I don't believe that a
light plane like the Zodiac could be made safe to ride a hurricane while tied
down or hangared in an airport no matter what you do.
If you have a garage, it is not difficult to reinforce the door from
the inside or to replace it with newer hurricane resistant ones.
If you dont have a garage but have a good patio, there are some sheds like this one http://www.smithbilt.com/ that are quite strong despite their appearances. How strong, well, I have a video documentary made after hurricane Andrew went thru Homestead FL. In it, there is a mobile home park completely destroyed. In the middle of the destruction you can see one of these sheds, intact.
If Im still living in South Florida by the time my plane is flying, my plan
is to trailer it home at the beginning of the peak hurricane season, and then
trailer it back to the airport at the end. This mean that I wont be flying, or
will have to be renting for about 4 month every year. Either I do this or I
will have to accept the fact that I will lose my plane sooner or later, because
in South Florida, a hurricane is not a matter of if but when.
I have no connection or participation in the company linked in this message.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
Frank Derfler <fderfler@gmail.com> wrote: I hac some great replies to my question
about keeping the airplane on the ground in a high wind (i.e. Hurricane).
-Using sand bags on the wings is the most practical idea.
-Using swim noodles tied to the wing shows an almost frightening ability to think
"outside the box". Bryan, if I still had a business I'd offer you a job immediately.
-"Buy more insurance" was good advice from several sources. I'm a 500 hour pilot
and paying about $2.5K annually for the 601. Marathon doesn't have a good
record for wind and flood losses. But, it's fully insured!
-"It's not the wind, it's the water!" was probably right on the money and in line
with experience.
-"Don't worry about it flying away, it's all the other stuff crashing into it"
is also true.
I think the winner is sandbags. Easy to put on and take off. Maybe help to defeat
all kinds of lift including "flat plate lift" described by David. And cheap!
Thanks, Bob!
--
Frank Derfler
-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com
- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM
-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com
-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
Message 6
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Being that Plasma cutters are a tool that we sometimes use on aircraft I
think we can talk about this.
Sometimes we are slow to learn, I already knew this but had a brain fart
and strayed. If it cost much money, say a $100 or more, don't buy it if
it doesn't say "Made in the USA" on it.
I just bought a Chinese Plasma cutter off e-bay, over $600 in total.
It's called a Plasmadyn from PlasmadynUSA. I just sent the third one
back. All were DOA. Now the guy says he will refund me my money less
shipping and a %25 restocking fee. Well needless to say I've filed a
protest with PayPal, I expect to get a full refund. No working machine
delivered.
However being the vengeful Ass Hole I am and somewhat of a web page
builder I made a page for this guy plus figured out how to put a page
link on the e-bay feedback. Take a look and be warned "Buy made in the
USA". www.skyhawg.com/plas.htm. Oh yes, please pass the link and word.
And go to all the other forums you use and warn them. I offered him a
chance out if he would give me a full refund I would kill the site, but
I guess he's too dumb to take me up on it. What he doesn't realize is
that even after I get my refund, the site stays up. And, of course I
fixed it where every search engine will find it in about 10 days. You
think I'm pissed?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
Message 7
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Ed, just to make your day. Sat a.m. I went up in my XL and she performed flawlessly.
At 4K she was at 150 + with two of us in her and the CHTs?slowly dipped
down into the 290s. The air was full of moisture and felt soft. Wind was straight
down the runway so I used flaps for landing and I bled it down to "walking
speed" on the LRI before touch down. Yes it is all worth it. Keep pounding away.
Best regards, Bill of Georgia?
-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net>
Sent: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 9:08 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: juhl@avci.net
Sorry Tim, not much I can do to help either. I'm at home in LA slogging away at
mounting the axles, brakes and wheelpant brackets to the gear legs, forks etc.
Even when I finish I dunno about getting up to Oshkosh or over to Sun N Fun.
How about Open Hangar Day at the factory?
?
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Juhl
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 7:51 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Disappointed at Oshkosh
I just finished my last day (of 3) at Oshkosh and was disappointed not to see any
Zodiac XL's in attendance other than the two at the factory display.? Maybe
I didn't look in the right places but there was a whole air force of RV's but
no XL's. If we are proud of our machines I think we should show them off!? Since
mine isn't finished I was unable to do my part but hopefully that time will
come.
Other than that, Oshkosh was..... well, Oshkosh.?? Great planes, lots of people,
some rain, some sun.? In short, a great experience and one I look forward to
every year.
Tim Juhl
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126079#126079
http://www.matron======================
bsp;? available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-- Edition. 7/28/2007 3:50 PM
________________________________________________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps |
Ralph,
I used ZAC's 701 specs when I built my hanger. It turns out they had
changed the landing gear
and so the rudder was a bit too high. I put a 2" block between the nose
strut and nose
wheel fork. The tail now fits and there is a slight nose up attitude on the
ground. I noticed
that the ZAC factory 701 pitched up at lift off too. I hold a bit of back
pressure and my 701
lifts off smoothly with no ptich up.
I will try some flaps, thanks,
Chuck D.
N701TX
Time: 03:55:29 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r@xtra.co.nz>
Nearly always use 16 deg (full flap on rev-4 and later designs) for T/O and
climbout
as it gives better cooling and about the same climb rate @ 50 KTs. Also
at the point of liftoff the pitch up response is less pronounced.
Ralph
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
Let me add a little about tieing down for the big wind. DO NOT USE STEEL
CABLE to tie wings. I did on a J-3 and lost a wing. Moved it from Palm Beach to
the center of Fla. because the hurricane was going to pass us in the ocean,
guess where it went. Jerry of Ga
DO NOT ARCHIVE
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 10
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| Subject: | Oh, those cheap imports!! |
do not archive !!
Larry,
Three large cheers for your web page concerning the wonderful welder.
Reminds me of the "Truckload Tool Sale" some years ago.
Large advertisement appeared in the local newspaper announcing that a "truckload
of heavy-duty tools, just right for farm implement maintenance...." would be
in town at a specified location from 8 A.M. until 2 P.M.
Customers flocked to the site and bought several hundred 3/4" drive socket sets
for extremely low prices.
The truck left promptly a 2.
The customers then discovered that they had purchased eight-point sockets. These
will work very well on SQUARE nuts as are found on very old farm machinery.
Regards to all,
Zed
Message 11
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| Subject: | 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
All this talk of spoilers and hurricanes.out here in California we don't get
any weather. Can someone tell me; what's a 'tie-down'? ; )
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeyoung65@aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground
Let me add a little about tieing down for the big wind. DO NOT USE STEEL
CABLE to tie wings. I did on a J-3 and lost a wing. Moved it from Palm Beach
to the center of Fla. because the hurricane was going to pass us in the
ocean, guess where it went. Jerry of Ga
DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps |
Ralph,=0ACould you send me a picture of the "2" block". I am going to want
to raise the nose wheel and put larger main tires on. The plane at this web
site http://www.qualitysportplanes.com/ has larger mains, I just need to fi
gure out how to do it.=0A=0ARob=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom:
Chuck Deiterich <cffd@pgrb.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mo
nday, July 30, 2007 8:42:20 AM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re: Re: 701 Takeoff
pgrb.com>=0A=0ARalph,=0A=0AI used ZAC's 701 specs when I built my hanger.
It turns out they had=0Achanged the landing gear=0Aand so the rudder was a
bit too high. I put a 2" block between the nose=0Astrut and nose=0Awheel f
ork. The tail now fits and there is a slight nose up attitude on the=0Agro
und. I noticed=0Athat the ZAC factory 701 pitched up at lift off too. I h
old a bit of back=0Apressure and my 701=0Alifts off smoothly with no ptich
up.=0A=0AI will try some flaps, thanks,=0AChuck D.=0AN701TX=0A=0A=0A=0ATime
: 03:55:29 PM PST US=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps=0AFrom
: "jetboy" <sanson.r@xtra.co.nz>=0A=0A=0ANearly always use 16 deg (full fla
p on rev-4 and later designs) for T/O and=0Aclimbout=0Aas it gives better c
ooling and about the same climb rate @ 50 KTs. Also=0Aat the point of lifto
=======================0A=0A=0A
=0A_________________________________________________________________
___________________=0ATake the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet i
n your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. =0Ahttp://mobile.yahoo.com/go?ref
er=1GNXIC
Message 13
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| Subject: | 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
It's like a freeway at rush hour...... the equipment stays right where it is, no
matter what.
Dred
---- Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> All this talk of spoilers and hurricanes.out here in California we don't get
> any weather. Can someone tell me; what's a 'tie-down'? ; )
>
>
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
>
> Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
Gary, A "tie-down" is what a calf roper does after he has successfully roped a
calf. However, we also use tie-down ropes or chains at the airport to secure
both wings and the tail to the ground so that the next renter will have something
to do before he kicks the tires and lights the fires.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
"Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>All this talk of spoilers and hurricanes.out here in California we don't get
>any weather. Can someone tell me; what's a 'tie-down'? ; )
>
>
>
>Gary Boothe
>Cool, CA
>601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
>Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
>
>Do not archive
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Jeyoung65@aol.com
>Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 8:08 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground
>
>
>
>Let me add a little about tieing down for the big wind. DO NOT USE STEEL
>CABLE to tie wings. I did on a J-3 and lost a wing. Moved it from Palm Beach
>to the center of Fla. because the hurricane was going to pass us in the
>ocean, guess where it went. Jerry of Ga
>
>
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> _____
>
><http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> .
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
"...A "tie-down" is what a calf roper does after he has successfully roped a
calf..."
Now I understand! What's the fastest time?
Gary
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground
Gary, A "tie-down" is what a calf roper does after he has successfully
roped a calf. However, we also use tie-down ropes or chains at the airport
to secure both wings and the tail to the ground so that the next renter will
have something to do before he kicks the tires and lights the fires.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
"Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>All this talk of spoilers and hurricanes.out here in California we don't
get
>any weather. Can someone tell me; what's a 'tie-down'? ; )
>
>
>
>Gary Boothe
>Cool, CA
>601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
>Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
>
>Do not archive
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Jeyoung65@aol.com
>Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 8:08 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground
>
>
>
>Let me add a little about tieing down for the big wind. DO NOT USE STEEL
>CABLE to tie wings. I did on a J-3 and lost a wing. Moved it from Palm
Beach
>to the center of Fla. because the hurricane was going to pass us in the
>ocean, guess where it went. Jerry of Ga
>
>
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> _____
>
><http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> .
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Disappointed at Oshkosh |
Glad to hear that I was mistaken. I'll do a better job of looking around next
year. It is always nice to be able to see what others have done.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126371#126371
Message 17
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| Subject: | 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
Gary, Actually, Rodeo Cowboys now call the calf roping event "tie-down roping."
I don't think they have official records, because of the variations in event
conditions: different size or breed of calves, different arena conditions (dirt
conditions, indoor or out, night or day, cold or hot, etc.) However, the really
fast times are around six seconds.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
"Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"...A "tie-down" is what a calf roper does after he has successfully roped a
>calf..."
>
>Now I understand! What's the fastest time?
>
>Gary
>Do not archive
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
Great answer Dred- Almost a classic!! Al ( Do not archive) Young
----- Original Message -----
From: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground
>
> It's like a freeway at rush hour...... the equipment stays right where it
> is, no matter what.
>
> Dred
>
> ---- Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>> All this talk of spoilers and hurricanes.out here in California we don't
>> get
>> any weather. Can someone tell me; what's a 'tie-down'? ; )
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, CA
>> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
>> Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
>>
>> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Made in the USA |
Larry,
I am not a lawyer so I may be wrong but it seems to me you are
leaving yourself open to a lawsuit for saying this guy is dishonest. I
believe everything you have said on your web site but it's not a good
idea to say the things you have said unless you can prove it all. I
guess this fool you got the machine from is too stupid to realize that
the aviation comunity is small and his actions will come back to bite
him in the ass sure as hell. What he has cheated you out of is nothing
compared to the money he will lose in profits from prospective customers
who see your web site. People like him do not last and he will go belly
up in the end.
I have heard of so many people getting cheated doing business via
the internet that I do not buy anything that I cannot see and make sure
it works except from a well known source like Aircraft Spruce &
Specialty. As a matter of fact, I just ordered a handheld aviation
radio from them and it did not work so I called and was told to package
it up and they would arrange for UPS to pick it up on monday, today. A
new one will be sent out to me also today. I have bought many items
from Spruce and never had a problem with any product and I know if I do
they will do right by me.
Tracy Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: LRM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; Vaughn Carl ; Paul
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:16 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Made in the USA
Being that Plasma cutters are a tool that we sometimes use on aircraft
I think we can talk about this.
Sometimes we are slow to learn, I already knew this but had a brain
fart and strayed. If it cost much money, say a $100 or more, don't buy
it if it doesn't say "Made in the USA" on it.
I just bought a Chinese Plasma cutter off e-bay, over $600 in total.
It's called a Plasmadyn from PlasmadynUSA. I just sent the third one
back. All were DOA. Now the guy says he will refund me my money less
shipping and a %25 restocking fee. Well needless to say I've filed a
protest with PayPal, I expect to get a full refund. No working machine
delivered.
However being the vengeful Ass Hole I am and somewhat of a web page
builder I made a page for this guy plus figured out how to put a page
link on the e-bay feedback. Take a look and be warned "Buy made in the
USA". www.skyhawg.com/plas.htm. Oh yes, please pass the link and word.
And go to all the other forums you use and warn them. I offered him a
chance out if he would give me a full refund I would kill the site, but
I guess he's too dumb to take me up on it. What he doesn't realize is
that even after I get my refund, the site stays up. And, of course I
fixed it where every search engine will find it in about 10 days. You
think I'm pissed?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: More torque wrench |
ashontz wrote:
> Why would it swing down to a near vertical position, it's clamped in the vise.
The only movement you'll see is about 1 or 2 degrees as indicated on the torque
wrench scale. If you want to get really accurate you could also factor in
the 1 or 2 degree movement but it's negligible. ...
>
The "near vertical" was, as stated, an imaginary wrench used solely to illustrate
an extreme. (It's always easier to envision the extremes & thus the principle
at work).
But 1-2 isn't always a realistic condition either. We clamped the stud, not the
handle or head of the tool. I have an old bar & poointer type that will swing
a good 20 in it's range. I agree that in the lightly loaded condition, the
effect is negligible. But then, if it's only swinging 1 or 2 , I should be using
a lighter wrench anyway, as the accuracy at the extremes is usually less
than in the midrange.
Someone else noted that this isn't an engine, that torque is measured at the perpindicular
in any event. That is the spot on: We either need to measure at
the perpindicular or, for all practical purposes, very near to it, or we aren't
getting a true torque reading. It's easy enough to do it correctly.
Daniel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126392#126392
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: More torque wrench |
Actually, the twist/flex across the length of the bar IS the torque being measured
at the scale. The stud is where it needs to be clamped. That's just simulating
what's going on while using the wrench, except the wrench isn't going around.
In fact, by the time you get to your torque setting, particularly if it's
high, the wrench isn't moving much anyway at that point.
DanielBK wrote:
>
> ashontz wrote:
> > Why would it swing down to a near vertical position, it's clamped in the vise.
The only movement you'll see is about 1 or 2 degrees as indicated on the torque
wrench scale. If you want to get really accurate you could also factor in
the 1 or 2 degree movement but it's negligible. ...
> >
>
>
> The "near vertical" was, as stated, an imaginary wrench used solely to illustrate
an extreme. (It's always easier to envision the extremes & thus the principle
at work).
>
> But 1-2 isn't always a realistic condition either. We clamped the stud, not
the handle or head of the tool. I have an old bar & poointer type that will swing
a good 20 in it's range. I agree that in the lightly loaded condition, the
effect is negligible. But then, if it's only swinging 1 or 2 , I should be
using a lighter wrench anyway, as the accuracy at the extremes is usually less
than in the midrange.
>
> Someone else noted that this isn't an engine, that torque is measured at the
perpindicular in any event. That is the spot on: We either need to measure at
the perpindicular or, for all practical purposes, very near to it, or we aren't
getting a true torque reading. It's easy enough to do it correctly.
>
> Daniel
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126405#126405
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: More torque wrench |
daveaustin2(at)primus.ca wrote:
> Are the torque specs so close that it is necessary to go to the extremes you
> folks have written of? How about torqueing up bolts that, by definition,
> use castle nuts? Do you go up in torque to the next slot, or down to the
> previous slot?
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Torqued nuts and bolts aren't supposed to come off on their own because the clamping
force due to the torque should exceed the maximum design force the bolt
would see longitudinally. For example, head bolts on an engine, the force that
the bolts are exerting holding the head to the engine block exceeds the maximum
explosive force of the burning fuel, hence no movement. However, if the bolts
weren't torqued down enough, even if they seemed 'tight', there would be movement
over time and particularly right after a power stroke, to allow the bolts
to work themselves free. Castled nuts I believe are more for applications where
a slight amount of slop (even if it's only 1/1000 of an inch clearance) is
allowed, or even preferred and particularly where there is rotational forces
as in tapered bearings like on a trailer wheel or car wheel.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126410#126410
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Made in the USA |
Way-to-go Larry!! Two thumbs up!
I am also sick and tired of cheap chinese junk, and have sworn it off.
Give me good ole Made in the USA tools, even if I do have to pay a
premium.
Bob Eli
CH701
----- Original Message -----
From: LRM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; Vaughn Carl ; Paul
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Made in the USA
Being that Plasma cutters are a tool that we sometimes use on aircraft
I think we can talk about this.
Sometimes we are slow to learn, I already knew this but had a brain
fart and strayed. If it cost much money, say a $100 or more, don't buy
it if it doesn't say "Made in the USA" on it.
I just bought a Chinese Plasma cutter off e-bay, over $600 in total.
It's called a Plasmadyn from PlasmadynUSA. I just sent the third one
back. All were DOA. Now the guy says he will refund me my money less
shipping and a %25 restocking fee. Well needless to say I've filed a
protest with PayPal, I expect to get a full refund. No working machine
delivered.
However being the vengeful Ass Hole I am and somewhat of a web page
builder I made a page for this guy plus figured out how to put a page
link on the e-bay feedback. Take a look and be warned "Buy made in the
USA". www.skyhawg.com/plas.htm. Oh yes, please pass the link and word.
And go to all the other forums you use and warn them. I offered him a
chance out if he would give me a full refund I would kill the site, but
I guess he's too dumb to take me up on it. What he doesn't realize is
that even after I get my refund, the site stays up. And, of course I
fixed it where every search engine will find it in about 10 days. You
think I'm pissed?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
Dag, what a bummer, to be stuck on the ground in the Florida keys. LOL. I'll trade
with you. :) I thought it was only windy down there in the winter. Sounds
like it's windy all the time.
do not archive
[quote="fderfler(at)gmail.com"]Asking for advice:
It is the "windy season" in the Florida Keys. My 601XL has to sit tied down outside.
When the circular storms come, I wouldn't be surprised to see breezes
that exceed Vr, Vx, Vy, and Vna coming right down the runway.
(Aside: for those of you who say "Fly it away to safety" I'd say that you havn't
been down here to the end of the narrow peninsula that is Florida. "Safety"
is only assured more than 1000 miles away ... maybe. They really do NOT know
where these storms are going! )
(Story to prove the point: August 2004 I had an Grumman sitting at a bayfront
airport in Tampa. The official word was that Tampa was going to get hit hard
by hurricane Charley. The Bay was going to rise 30 feet. So, I thought, "I should
save my airplane and fly it to Arcadia." Arcadia is a town far inland and
south of Tampa. Well, preparing the family was more important than saving
the Grumman, so I didn't fly. The storm didn't come close to Tampa while the
Arcadia airport was hit hard. As another example, look at the unnecessary evacuation
of Houston in advance of Katrina. They really do not have much of a clue
where these things will go.)
For those of you who say: "Put it in a hangar". Well, none are available in the
foreseeable future and we have probably suffered more losses among airplanes
in hangars at Marathon than in the open. Hangar doors (The phrase: "Big as
a barn door") fail and crash on the airplanes inside.
Anyway, I have other responsibilities and can't be sitting with the airplane 1000
miles away.
So, I want to keep the wings on my 601 from trying to fly. Questions for the
group:
1. I see that Kennon Covers has wing covers with spoilers built in. SEE: http://www.kennoncovers.com/wingcovers.htm (http://www.kennoncovers.com/wingcovers.htm)
Has anyone tried these on any aircraft? A 601? How difficult to put on and take
off?
2. I can't believe that it takes much to be a spolier, but the big problem is
attaching something to the 601's wing because the whole back edge is full of
relatively fragile control surfaces. Also, I don't want to ruin the paint.
How about an old blanket tied onto the wing with 50' of 1/4" rope? Or even,
how about 50' of 1/4" or 3/8" rope itself wrapped around each wing? Would that
"spoil" the aerodynamics enough to keep the wings from flying?
Yes, I know... just as soon as I have my airplane securely tied down and with
"spoiled" wings, some idiot's 172C is going to break its 25 year old tie-down
ropes and land upside down on my plane. But, I will have tried! -- FJD
--
Frank Derfler
-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com (http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com)
- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM (http://www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM)
-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com (http://www.KEYSBOATER.com)
-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com (http://www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com)
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126412#126412
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| Subject: | Re: Disappointed at Oshkosh |
I'd recommend going to the builder's dinner too.
You'll meet all kinds of builders there.
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126415#126415
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
Seeing as how you really can't guarantee which direction the wind will come from,
I think if I ran an airport in FL, for each tie-down spot I'd sink about a
yard of concrete in the ground with a big 3" diameter pipe in it, then weld up
a fairly balanced structure that then sits on the pipe and can swivel and can
be adjusted for different wheel sets. Then when it comes time to tie down you
just pull the plane up on the big swivel thing and lash the tires to it real
good, then strap noodles to the wings. LOL
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126418#126418
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Leveling - (Again) |
We used one based on 3/8" vinyl tubing with coloured water on a
foundation. leaving it set up as we went along, it was quite stange how
everthing seemed to "settle" at one end as the day went on. When we
brought the two ends together after a couple hours to move it the water
was over an inch higher on the hot side. The only reason we could think
of was the heat.
----- Original Message -----
From: David Downey
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Leveling - (Again)
I am not saying you are wrong Dave. All I am saying is that I have
used them for 45+years and have never observed that particular
phenomenon. I will be even more anal in the future!
"Dave G." <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
Just a quick caution about these water levels. Sunshine will
seriously affect their accuracy. If one end is in sun and the other in
shade, the levels can change. Just something to watch out for.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Simmons
To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 12:08 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Leveling - (Again)
Hey list and maybe newbies,
About a week an a half ago, I asked about using the water level
method for setting the upper front longerons and all the other elements
during this time of assembly. If you are close to this area of assembly,
you realize it sets almost all attaching elements except for the tail.
Anyhow, thanks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
Dag, someone beat me to it. Good idea though. Don't try to fight the wind, just
go with the flow.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5979121.html
do not archive
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126424#126424
Message 29
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| Subject: | CH601XL in Souuth Jersey |
Is anyone with a CH601XL planning on flying to south jersey anytime in the next
few months. If so I'd appreciate the opportunity to take a look at one of these
badboys in person. I'm building one, but I've never actually seen one other
than photographs. In fact I've never seen any 601 in person and would be curious
just to get a look at a completed one in person.
Thanks
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126425#126425
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: closing wing |
I did the top first per the photo guide.
do not archive
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126426#126426
Message 31
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|
I just finished reading the article today in AOPA Pilot, and noted that
instead of the traditional Hoerner tips, they are using the droop tips, very
similar to Cessna's and Mathieu was emphatic that this was an improvement in
performance in reducing wing tip vortices. So if the "new" tip design is an
improvement, will it be incorporated in the rest of the line?
CS
Message 32
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wjones(at)brazoriainet.co wrote:
> Hi Jerry ,the hardwood will work but why spend so much money .3/4" MDF is
> much cheaper and will do the job just as well .
> Wade Jones South Texas
> 601XL plans building
> Cont. 0200
> ---
I concur. MDF is great.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126428#126428
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Made in the USA |
Yeah, you are a vengeful asshole. Prouda'ya, son.
Paul R
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: LRM<mailto:lrm@skyhawg.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com> ;
Vaughn Carl<mailto:carl148@centurytel.net> ;
Paul<mailto:Pakman0033@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:16 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Made in the USA
Being that Plasma cutters are a tool that we sometimes use on aircraft
I think we can talk about this.
Sometimes we are slow to learn, I already knew this but had a brain
fart and strayed. If it cost much money, say a $100 or more, don't buy
it if it doesn't say "Made in the USA" on it.
I just bought a Chinese Plasma cutter off e-bay, over $600 in total.
It's called a Plasmadyn from PlasmadynUSA. I just sent the third one
back. All were DOA. Now the guy says he will refund me my money less
shipping and a %25 restocking fee. Well needless to say I've filed a
protest with PayPal, I expect to get a full refund. No working machine
delivered.
However being the vengeful Ass Hole I am and somewhat of a web page
builder I made a page for this guy plus figured out how to put a page
link on the e-bay feedback. Take a look and be warned "Buy made in the
USA". www.skyhawg.com/plas.htm<http://www.skyhawg.com/plas.htm>. Oh
yes, please pass the link and word. And go to all the other forums you
use and warn them. I offered him a chance out if he would give me a
full refund I would kill the site, but I guess he's too dumb to take me
up on it. What he doesn't realize is that even after I get my refund,
the site stays up. And, of course I fixed it where every search engine
will find it in about 10 days. You think I'm pissed?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Made in the USA |
Before the advent of cheap chinese tools, I couldn't afford to equip my garage.
I've bought many tools from harbor freight that have worked for many years. Of
course
I would not reccomend them for use by a professional builder or mechanic, but
for the home, oh say airplane builder, most of them are fine.
Terry Turnquist
Today pulling rivets with a $30.00 rivet gun instead of a $300.00 rivet gun!
"Robert N. Eli" <robert.eli@comcast.net> wrote:
BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 75px; FONT-WEIGHT: bold;
FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: #000080; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY:
Courier New } Way-to-go Larry!! Two thumbs up!
I am also sick and tired of cheap chinese junk, and have sworn it off. Give
me good ole Made in the USA tools, even if I do have to pay a premium.
Bob Eli
CH701
----- Original Message -----
From: LRM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; Vaughn Carl ; Paul
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Made in the USA
Being that Plasma cutters are a tool that we sometimes use on aircraft I think
we can talk about this.
Sometimes we are slow to learn, I already knew this but had a brain fart and
strayed. If it cost much money, say a $100 or more, don't buy it if it doesn't
say "Made in the USA" on it.
I just bought a Chinese Plasma cutter off e-bay, over $600 in total. It's called
a Plasmadyn from PlasmadynUSA. I just sent the third one back. All were DOA.
Now the guy says he will refund me my money less shipping and a %25 restocking
fee. Well needless to say I've filed a protest with PayPal, I expect to
get a full refund. No working machine delivered.
However being the vengeful Ass Hole I am and somewhat of a web page builder I made a page for this guy plus figured out how to put a page link on the e-bay feedback. Take a look and be warned "Buy made in the USA". www.skyhawg.com/plas.htm. Oh yes, please pass the link and word. And go to all the other forums you use and warn them. I offered him a chance out if he would give me a full refund I would kill the site, but I guess he's too dumb to take me up on it. What he doesn't realize is that even after I get my refund, the site stays up. And, of course I fixed it where every search engine will find it in about 10 days. You think I'm pissed?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project |
Last week while I was at Oshkosh, a couple of my neighbors came over to my house
to talk with my wife.
"We'd like to sit down and talk with you about your husbands airplane project..."
They really scared my wife. :(
To make a very long story short, one of my neighbors (who moved here from Modesto,
CA - you guys know what that means) is an airline pilot, which to my non-pilot
wife means that he knows Everything about All Aircraft. He's also a fellow
EAA member (social member, not a builder). For reasons that are not important
here, suffice it to say that there is nothing that I can ever say or demonstrate
to him that will ever convince him that the 601 XL is a safe design. He
is quite passionate and vocal about that.
While I don't appreciated that they waited until I was gone before coming over,
I'm not angry because I know that he has my (or at least my wife's) best interest
and safety at heart.
Be that as it may, support from ones spouse is critical in completing an airplane
project. So in order to arm myself with the latest information, I took the
opportunity while at Oshkosh to speak with several people who's technical abilities
I greatly respect. People who flew their 601's in. The Zenith folks.
People with real-world experience. And people who are builders just like me
who face the same decisions and the same questions - and who came to the same
conclusions.
You guys know who you are and I thank you for answering my questions.
All these people helped reassure and reinforce for me that the decisions I have
made were good decisions. Based on that, I believe I was able to control the
damage and reassure my wife and thus maintain her support.
Today I am more confident than ever that the 601 XL is the right airplane. I hope
to have my airframe completed this winter, my engine running next spring,
and a flying airplane that I can bring to Oshkosh. I am really looking forward
to the day when I can show my own completed and flying airplane to some of you
people who I met in person last week at Oshkosh.
Thanks!
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126439#126439
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Made in the USA |
I wouldn't write off Harbor Freight. I have found their tools to be
very good for my applications and have never had one fail. Robert
Schoenberger 701 do not archive.
Robert N. Eli wrote:
> Way-to-go Larry!! Two thumbs up!
>
> I am also sick and tired of cheap chinese junk, and have sworn it off. Give
me good ole Made in the USA tools, even if I do have to pay a premium.
>
> Bob Eli
> CH701
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LRM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; Vaughn Carl ; Paul
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:16 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Made in the USA
>
>
> Being that Plasma cutters are a tool that we sometimes use on aircraft I think
we can talk about this.
>
> Sometimes we are slow to learn, I already knew this but had a brain fart and
strayed. If it cost much money, say a $100 or more, don't buy it if it doesn't
say "Made in the USA" on it.
> I just bought a Chinese Plasma cutter off e-bay, over $600 in total. It's called
a Plasmadyn from PlasmadynUSA. I just sent the third one back. All were
DOA. Now the guy says he will refund me my money less shipping and a %25 restocking
fee. Well needless to say I've filed a protest with PayPal, I expect
to get a full refund. No working machine delivered.
>
> However being the vengeful Ass Hole I am and somewhat of a web page builder I made a page for this guy plus figured out how to put a page link on the e-bay feedback. Take a look and be warned "Buy made in the USA". www.skyhawg.com/plas.htm. Oh yes, please pass the link and word. And go to all the other forums you use and warn them. I offered him a chance out if he would give me a full refund I would kill the site, but I guess he's too dumb to take me up on it. What he doesn't realize is that even after I get my refund, the site stays up. And, of course I fixed it where every search engine will find it in about 10 days. You think I'm pissed?
>
>
> Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage |
Thanks for the responses on my L angles .Do Not Archive
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 3:37 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Fuselage
> Question : when installing the L angles inside the top middle skin
,does the L angle slide between the skin and bulkhead at the rear or
does it only butt up to it .
It is a little hard to tell but I believe the L's overlap the bulkhead
at the rear of the baggage compartment AND the tubular hoop. Page 7 of
the rev 2.2 photo guide 6-B-21C says "The front of the L angles are
behind the tube frame 6B21-2". Another clue is that they have you lay
out the rivet lines between rivets on the bulkhead and hoop (page 6 of
the photo guide). And if you look closely at the side view on 6-B-21 in
the plans you will see dashed lines for the L's extending into the
bulkhead.
-- Craig
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Made in the USA |
All-
I agree, it depends on the accuracy you need and how much you intend
to use a tool. For rough use, high expected accuracy tools I own
Craftsman, Lincoln, Ridgid, and the like. But Terry's right- we'd be
hard pressed to stock our shops without HF. And even if you think you're
buying American, you never know. Name one American manufacturer of a
cordless drill- I dare you! (Ridgid, B+D, Skil, Milwaukee, DeWalt, and
Ryobi are Chinese). The only exception I know of is Bosch, which is
Swiss.
Consider this:
I have an HF .001 discretion caliper/mic set I bought for less than
$20.00. Realistically only accurate to .002, but accurate enough to tell
what size bolt or thickness of sheet stock I have. When I had to mic my
Corvair crank, not accurate enough. Borrowed a set of .0001 discretion
Starrets from work.
If I were to steadfastly stick to Starret, I would have to pay
$195.00 for a combination square set accurate to less than .001 over
12". My alternative was to buy an HF set accurate to .010 over 12" for
less than $20.00. .010 will be buried by the Sharpie line, so that's the
route I took.
Would I buy an Chinese welder? I didn't, but I love my HF riveter!
It all depends on your application and expectations.
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Turnquist
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Made in the USA
Before the advent of cheap chinese tools, I couldn't afford to equip
my garage. I've bought many tools from harbor freight that have worked
for many years. Of course
I would not reccomend them for use by a professional builder or
mechanic, but for the home, oh say airplane builder, most of them are
fine.
Terry Turnquist
Today pulling rivets with a $30.00 rivet gun instead of a $300.00
rivet gun!
"Robert N. Eli" <robert.eli@comcast.net> wrote:
Way-to-go Larry!! Two thumbs up!
I am also sick and tired of cheap chinese junk, and have sworn it
off. Give me good ole Made in the USA tools, even if I do have to pay a
premium.
Bob Eli
CH701
----- Original Message -----
From: LRM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; Vaughn Carl ; Paul
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Made in the USA
Being that Plasma cutters are a tool that we sometimes use on
aircraft I think we can talk about this.
Sometimes we are slow to learn, I already knew this but had a
brain fart and strayed. If it cost much money, say a $100 or more,
don't buy it if it doesn't say "Made in the USA" on it.
I just bought a Chinese Plasma cutter off e-bay, over $600 in
total. It's called a Plasmadyn from PlasmadynUSA. I just sent the third
one back. All were DOA. Now the guy says he will refund me my money
less shipping and a %25 restocking fee. Well needless to say I've filed
a protest with PayPal, I expect to get a full refund. No working
machine delivered.
However being the vengeful Ass Hole I am and somewhat of a web
page builder I made a page for this guy plus figured out how to put a
page link on the e-bay feedback. Take a look and be warned "Buy made in
the USA". www.skyhawg.com/plas.htm. Oh yes, please pass the link and
word. And go to all the other forums you use and warn them. I offered
him a chance out if he would give me a full refund I would kill the
site, but I guess he's too dumb to take me up on it. What he doesn't
realize is that even after I get my refund, the site stays up. And, of
course I fixed it where every search engine will find it in about 10
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project |
Hi Patrick,
My feelings go to you and your wife.
I guess I don't really understand the content of
the warning given to your wife. If it was that
any home built aircraft has some danger
associated with it, then I agree. If it was that
the CH601XL is particularly dangerous in the
field of home built aircraft then I
disagree. While there have been some unfortunate
accidents with XLs recently, the number of
accidents is still very low. I still think the
most dangerous part of any flight in an XL is the
drive to the airport. Cars are really dangerous!
As to airline pilots knowing everything -- I have
serious doubts. They are all competent pilots,
but their experience with experimental aircraft
varies from nothing to being "repeat
offenders". What they do seem to hold in common
is a great respect for following the rules and
being safety conscious. This is what they are trained to respect.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 01:49 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote:
>
>Last week while I was at Oshkosh, a couple of my
>neighbors came over to my house to talk with my wife.
>
>"We'd like to sit down and talk with you about
>your husbands airplane project..."
>
>They really scared my wife. :(
>
>To make a very long story short, one of my
>neighbors (who moved here from Modesto, CA - you
>guys know what that means) is an airline pilot,
>which to my non-pilot wife means that he knows
>Everything about All Aircraft. He's also a
>fellow EAA member (social member, not a
>builder). For reasons that are not important
>here, suffice it to say that there is nothing
>that I can ever say or demonstrate to him that
>will ever convince him that the 601 XL is a safe
>design. He is quite passionate and vocal about that.
>
>While I don't appreciated that they waited until
>I was gone before coming over, I'm not angry
>because I know that he has my (or at least my
>wife's) best interest and safety at heart.
>
>Be that as it may, support from ones spouse is
>critical in completing an airplane project. So
>in order to arm myself with the latest
>information, I took the opportunity while at
>Oshkosh to speak with several people who's
>technical abilities I greatly respect. People
>who flew their 601's in. The Zenith
>folks. People with real-world experience. And
>people who are builders just like me who face
>the same decisions and the same questions - and
>who came to the same conclusions.
>
>You guys know who you are and I thank you for answering my questions.
>
>All these people helped reassure and reinforce
>for me that the decisions I have made were good
>decisions. Based on that, I believe I was able
>to control the damage and reassure my wife and thus maintain her support.
>
>Today I am more confident than ever that the 601
>XL is the right airplane. I hope to have my
>airframe completed this winter, my engine
>running next spring, and a flying airplane that
>I can bring to Oshkosh. I am really looking
>forward to the day when I can show my own
>completed and flying airplane to some of you
>people who I met in person last week at Oshkosh.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Patrick
>601XL/Corvair
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project |
Sounds like the zealots who periodically knock on my door and want to talk to me
about converting to their religion. I feel that everyone has the right to their
own opinion, but they cross the line when they try and impose it onto others.
I personally have no tolerance for such actions and would in no uncertain
terms make my position clear to my neighbors if I was in your position and they
had tried to influence members in my family while I was away. Do they have your
wife's best interest and safety in mind? I think not, they are on there own
mission to make the world a safer place (in there minds) and can then feel better
about themselves. Sorry for the rant. Dan.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PatrickW
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 1:50 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project
Last week while I was at Oshkosh, a couple of my neighbors came over to my house
to talk with my wife.
"We'd like to sit down and talk with you about your husbands airplane project..."
They really scared my wife. :(
To make a very long story short, one of my neighbors (who moved here from Modesto,
CA - you guys know what that means) is an airline pilot, which to my non-pilot
wife means that he knows Everything about All Aircraft. He's also a fellow
EAA member (social member, not a builder). For reasons that are not important
here, suffice it to say that there is nothing that I can ever say or demonstrate
to him that will ever convince him that the 601 XL is a safe design. He
is quite passionate and vocal about that.
While I don't appreciated that they waited until I was gone before coming over,
I'm not angry because I know that he has my (or at least my wife's) best interest
and safety at heart.
Be that as it may, support from ones spouse is critical in completing an airplane
project. So in order to arm myself with the latest information, I took the
opportunity while at Oshkosh to speak with several people who's technical abilities
I greatly respect. People who flew their 601's in. The Zenith folks.
People with real-world experience. And people who are builders just like me
who face the same decisions and the same questions - and who came to the same
conclusions.
You guys know who you are and I thank you for answering my questions.
All these people helped reassure and reinforce for me that the decisions I have
made were good decisions. Based on that, I believe I was able to control the
damage and reassure my wife and thus maintain her support.
Today I am more confident than ever that the 601 XL is the right airplane. I hope
to have my airframe completed this winter, my engine running next spring,
and a flying airplane that I can bring to Oshkosh. I am really looking forward
to the day when I can show my own completed and flying airplane to some of you
people who I met in person last week at Oshkosh.
Thanks!
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126439#126439
--
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Made in the USA |
At 01:44 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote:
>Before the advent of cheap chinese tools, I couldn't afford to equip
>my garage. I've bought many tools from harbor freight that have
>worked for many years. Of course
>I would not reccomend them for use by a professional builder or
>mechanic, but for the home, oh say airplane builder, most of them are fine.
I have personally had very good luck with some Chinese tools and very
bad luck with other examples. You just can't beat the Harbor Freight
rivet puller.
Given a population of over 1 BILLION people, I suppose it is
reasonable to expect there will be some variety in goods from
China. If I had to stop using goods from a whole country because of
one lemon, then I guess I had to stop buying US goods after my
sister's Corvair burned up its engine on the Connecticut Turnpike.
Paul
XL fuselage
Do not archive
Message 42
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| Subject: | Zenith builders chat tonight |
Just a reminder, chat tonight at the usual place:
http://chat.iahu.ca/
at the usual time 8:00 PM EST
Typically some of us have remained on until around 10 Oclock.
Dan
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126496#126496
Message 43
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| Subject: | RE: 601 down in Mojave / Rosemond |
Craig,
Thanks for the info. I was in the field with the reserves for the
last 2 weeks, and missed a bunch on the list
>>Yes, Rick Pitcher reported this back on July 14th. Search for "First
>>flight... not so good", message number 48014. Unfortunately the links to the
>>pictures he attached have expired.
VR/
Brandon Tucker
Assistant Flight Operations Manager
Q GENERAL ATOMICS - AERONAUTICAL SYSTEMS
Gray Butte/El Mirage Flight Operations Center
73 El Mirage Airport Rd
El Mirage/Adelanto
Phone: 760.388.8253 Fax : 760. 388.8155
Brandon.Tucker@uav.com
---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith builders chat tonight |
Hi All,
I am a new Zenith 701 builder. How do you connect to the chat room?
Thanks,
Steve
In a message dated 7/30/2007 7:48:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
leinad@hughes.net writes:
_http://chat.iahu.ca/_ (http://chat.iahu.ca/)
Steven Bornstein
475 E. North Broadway
Columbus, Ohio 43214
614 263-5819
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 45
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| Subject: | Leveling - (Again) |
NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_11077_1185842212_2
NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26029_1185823571_0--
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project |
Hello Patrick:
I wish the the very best and hope you overcome this situation. You are
a very patient man if you are "not angry".
This is so wrong on about seventeen different levels.
Again, the very best,
Randy L. Thwing, Las vegas
>
> Last week while I was at Oshkosh, a couple of my neighbors came over to my
> house to talk with my wife.
>
> They really scared my wife. :(
> I'm not angry
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Made in the USA |
Trust me I have the e-mails and pictures to prove he is a liar. And, I
am not asking for anything other than my money back. My next door
lawyer said I had zero problem. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: robert stone
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Made in the USA
Larry,
I am not a lawyer so I may be wrong but it seems to me you are
leaving yourself open to a lawsuit for saying this guy is dishonest. I
believe everything you have said on your web site but it's not a good
idea to say the things you have said unless you can prove it all. I
guess this fool you got the machine from is too stupid to realize that
the aviation comunity is small and his actions will come back to bite
him in the ass sure as hell. What he has cheated you out of is nothing
compared to the money he will lose in profits from prospective customers
who see your web site. People like him do not last and he will go belly
up in the end.
I have heard of so many people getting cheated doing business via
the internet that I do not buy anything that I cannot see and make sure
it works except from a well known source like Aircraft Spruce &
Specialty. As a matter of fact, I just ordered a handheld aviation
radio from them and it did not work so I called and was told to package
it up and they would arrange for UPS to pick it up on monday, today. A
new one will be sent out to me also today. I have bought many items
from Spruce and never had a problem with any product and I know if I do
they will do right by me.
Tracy Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: LRM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; Vaughn Carl ; Paul
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:16 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Made in the USA
Being that Plasma cutters are a tool that we sometimes use on
aircraft I think we can talk about this.
Sometimes we are slow to learn, I already knew this but had a brain
fart and strayed. If it cost much money, say a $100 or more, don't buy
it if it doesn't say "Made in the USA" on it.
I just bought a Chinese Plasma cutter off e-bay, over $600 in total.
It's called a Plasmadyn from PlasmadynUSA. I just sent the third one
back. All were DOA. Now the guy says he will refund me my money less
shipping and a %25 restocking fee. Well needless to say I've filed a
protest with PayPal, I expect to get a full refund. No working machine
delivered.
However being the vengeful Ass Hole I am and somewhat of a web page
builder I made a page for this guy plus figured out how to put a page
link on the e-bay feedback. Take a look and be warned "Buy made in the
USA". www.skyhawg.com/plas.htm. Oh yes, please pass the link and word.
And go to all the other forums you use and warn them. I offered him a
chance out if he would give me a full refund I would kill the site, but
I guess he's too dumb to take me up on it. What he doesn't realize is
that even after I get my refund, the site stays up. And, of course I
fixed it where every search engine will find it in about 10 days. You
think I'm pissed?
Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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