---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/31/07: 54 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:33 AM - Squelching the "Intervenor" (Zed Smith) 2. 06:55 AM - main gear rubber cushions () 3. 06:55 AM - Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project (Gig Giacona) 4. 07:53 AM - inflight breakups (bernie nowlen) 5. 07:53 AM - Re: Squelching the "Intervenor" () 6. 08:14 AM - Check out Aviation Query Results Page (SABorns@aol.com) 7. 08:20 AM - 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump (John Davis) 8. 08:29 AM - Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project (kkinney) 9. 08:39 AM - Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project (Clyde Barcus) 10. 08:45 AM - Re: main gear rubber cushions (DaveG601XL) 11. 09:04 AM - Re: main gear rubber cushions (Gig Giacona) 12. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: main gear rubber cushions () 13. 09:09 AM - New Rotax Installation and Maintenance Manuals (Leo Gates) 14. 09:13 AM - Re: inflight breakups (Gig Giacona) 15. 09:13 AM - Scam Alert (HermanMullis@aol.com) 16. 09:15 AM - Re: Neighbor's tried to 'Intervene' on my project (zodierocket@hsfx.ca) 17. 09:30 AM - Re: Re: main gear rubber cushions () 18. 09:40 AM - Re: main gear rubber cushions (DaveG601XL) 19. 09:48 AM - Re: Scam Alert () 20. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: main gear rubber cushions () 21. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: main gear rubber cushions () 22. 09:57 AM - Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project (David Brooks) 23. 10:01 AM - Re: 801 Takeoff w flaps (Keystone Engineering LLC) 24. 10:05 AM - Re: Scam Alert (Tom Henderson) 25. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: main gear rubber cushions (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 26. 10:16 AM - Re: Neighbor's tried to 'Intervene' on my project (Craig Payne) 27. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: inflight breakups (SABorns@aol.com) 28. 10:59 AM - Ch-701 and Jabiru Engine Choices (Ryan Vechinski) 29. 11:03 AM - Re: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump (japhillipsga@aol.com) 30. 11:37 AM - Re: Ch-701 and Jabiru Engine Choices (Craig Payne) 31. 12:11 PM - Re: main gear rubber cushions (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 32. 12:12 PM - Re: main gear rubber cushions (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 33. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps701 Takeoff w flaps (milreed) 34. 12:33 PM - Re: Scam Alert (Ron Lalonde) 35. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps701 Takeoff w flaps (Robert Schoenberger) 36. 12:54 PM - Re: main gear rubber cushions () 37. 02:11 PM - Re: main gear rubber cushions (Juan Vega) 38. 02:31 PM - Airshow (john H) 39. 02:50 PM - Re: Neighbor's tried to (Juan Vega) 40. 03:30 PM - Control cables for 601XL (lwinger) 41. 04:06 PM - Re: Neighbor's tried to 'Intervene' on my project (n801bh@netzero.com) 42. 04:55 PM - Tom Henderson (robert stone) 43. 05:04 PM - Re: Tom Henderson (Tom Henderson) 44. 05:44 PM - Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 45. 05:44 PM - Re: Tom Henderson (Kevin L. Rupert) 46. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps701 Takeoff w flaps (Robert Hansen) 47. 06:19 PM - Re: Control cables for 601XL (Juan Vega) 48. 06:29 PM - Re: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? (leinad) 49. 07:35 PM - Elevator (rhansen16) 50. 08:01 PM - Re: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump (Ron Lendon) 51. 09:32 PM - Re: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? (Larry Winger) 52. 09:32 PM - Re: Control cables for 601XL (Larry Winger) 53. 09:33 PM - Re: Re: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? (Larry Winger) 54. 10:26 PM - Just a sliver of liver , makes the medicine, go down! (martyn@flight.co.za) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:37 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Squelching the "Intervenor" do not archive Work up a good smirk, then, using some colorful references to the fellow's apparent lack of proper parentage, remind him that every new model built by Boeing bears a large placard proclaiming its status as EXPERIMENTAL. Regards, Zed/experimental 701/non-certified R912/grass runway XS30/etc ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:39 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: main gear rubber cushions I may need to break down and call the factory but let's take a shot at speeding things up here. Last evening I got my 601XL fuselage off the worktable and set it on sawhorses in preparation for mounting the big standard aluminum main gear legs. First, the assembly guide is pitifully inadequate at this stage so I need corroboration from experienced builders..... my guess is that the gear needs to be notched both forward side and aft side in order to fit the gear channel. That much seems obvious to me. What isn't obvious at all (at least to me) is where in the heck do I install the four pieces of rubber hose halves? The drawing (6G3, I think) shows "1/8" rubber" above and below the gear leg but it is far from clear whether the rubber being discussed is the half piece of hose or a rubber washer. I can't find any rubber washers in the supplied hardware (I bought the entire kit back in December 2005). Do I need to notch the rubber hose pieces to fit where I notch the gear legs or do they fit inboard to that area. If they are placed inboard to the mounting bolts, what keeps them from sliding around later? The text and the photos in the assembly guide do not begin to address these questions, much less provide the answer. Also, have some of you opted out of drilling through the gear mounting bolts and used the non-Nylok self locking nuts on the gear mounts? The idea of trying to drill those 1/2" steel bolts for cotter pins is not an appealing proposition to me. Last question..... is it a huge No-No to drill into the aft edge of the gear legs to screw in those rubber lined (Hadel?) clamps for securing the brake lines later? Is that just asking for a crack in the gear legs later on? All help and advice is welcome here. Thanks, Dred ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project From: "Gig Giacona" My first thought after reading your story is the old adage that fences make good neighbors. But not for the normal reasons but as a source for a 2x4 to knock the crap out of your pilot neighbor. But since that's probably not an option I would certainly confront the man. Is his problem specific to your build or home-builts in general? If the former I'd be curious as to the issue. If the latter I'd confront him with it in a forum where you have plenty of people on your side. Since you say he is a social member of your EAA chapter that might be the perfect place to do it. Now for damage control. Has your wife flown in small aircraft? If not get her in with a CFI who is good and pro home-built. After that or if she is already comfortable in small planes get her in a 601 with a pilot who is experienced with the aircraft. My wife went to Mexico MO with me and and actually flew in a 601 before I did. All that said I would still consider the 2x4 idea. I've got one you can borrow. Another damage control action is to make sure that your wife is well aware of your own self preservation instincts. In my case this was handled long before I ever started building. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126576#126576 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:46 AM PST US From: "bernie nowlen" Subject: Zenith-List: inflight breakups anyone have news regarding the cause of the last 3 inflight breakups of the 601XL (2 in ca 1 tx) ? bernie ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:47 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Squelching the "Intervenor" How about just (politely) reminding him that: (A) The same FAA which governs and attempts to regulate his safe conduct inflight has extensive guidlines which are intended to do the same for us experimental amateur builders......... (B) if his advice had been followed back in 1903 the Wright bros. would have sold more bikes and he would be out of a job..... (C) there haven't been any news stories about EAB pilots going up drunk like the multiple news stories involving airline pilots........ (D) we never have to trust the work of a guy who is seriously pissed about the unfavorable results of a recent union negotiation........ and last but not least, (E) good neighbors are more tactful and less medlesome toward their neighbors. Dred do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:42 AM PST US From: SABorns@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Check out Aviation Query Results Page NTSB Query _Click here: Aviation Query Results Page_ (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Response2.asp) Steven Bornstein 475 E. North Broadway Columbus, Ohio 43214 614 263-5819 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:29 AM PST US From: John Davis Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump I finally got my Jabiru 3300 and am thinking about the fuel system. I'm planning on using the Zenith supplied andair fuel selector and gascolator. I'm wondering if it makes sense to keep the facet fuel pump in the cabin or mount it to the firewall ? Zenith seems to recommend the cabin but I note that William Winn seems to mount his fuel pumps on the engine side of the firewall. I will also be installing a fuel flow sensor on the firewall for my Dynon D180. Any thoughts as to whats best ? Thanks, John Davis Burnsville, NC 601XL - Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:18 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project From: "kkinney" I hope your wife didn't freak. If she's worried, note that light aircraft go by different rules than the heavies. For example, light aircraft flare around 10 feet or so. Your neighbor routinely flares his heavy at 75 feet. If he tried this when landing a Cub, he could expect a bent airplane. Or worse. Applying the same thinking when flying a "bus with wings" to a light aircraft is dangerous and irresponsible. Opinions are like... your neighbor. Everybody has one. Regards, Kevin Kinney Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126600#126600 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:58 AM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project Patrick, You are a far better man than me! Anyone that would go around me and scare my family is not a friend of mine, I would have confronted him upon my return and made it clear not to ever cross that line again. If he didn't understand, and agree, that meddling in my family affairs is off limits, then our friendship would end there. If he rode a motorcycle I would not take it upon myself to discuss the perils of riding with his family. Clyde Barcus 601 XL, Continental Powered Wings, Tail & Engine Complete Working on Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: "PatrickW" Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 3:49 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project > > Last week while I was at Oshkosh, a couple of my neighbors came over to my > house to talk with my wife. > > "We'd like to sit down and talk with you about your husband?Ts airplane > project..." > > They really scared my wife. :( > > To make a very long story short, one of my neighbors (who moved here from > Modesto, CA - you guys know what that means) is an airline pilot, which to > my non-pilot wife means that he knows Everything about All Aircraft. He's > also a fellow EAA member (social member, not a builder). For reasons that > are not important here, suffice it to say that there is nothing that I can > ever say or demonstrate to him that will ever convince him that the 601 XL > is a safe design. He is quite passionate and vocal about that. > > While I don't appreciated that they waited until I was gone before coming > over, I'm not angry because I know that he has my (or at least my wife's) > best interest and safety at heart. > > Be that as it may, support from ones spouse is critical in completing an > airplane project. So in order to arm myself with the latest information, > I took the opportunity while at Oshkosh to speak with several people who's > technical abilities I greatly respect. People who flew their 601's in. > The Zenith folks. People with real-world experience. And people who are > builders just like me who face the same decisions and the same questions - > and who came to the same conclusions. > > You guys know who you are and I thank you for answering my questions. > > All these people helped reassure and reinforce for me that the decisions I > have made were good decisions. Based on that, I believe I was able to > control the damage and reassure my wife and thus maintain her support. > > Today I am more confident than ever that the 601 XL is the right airplane. > I hope to have my airframe completed this winter, my engine running next > spring, and a flying airplane that I can bring to Oshkosh. I am really > looking forward to the day when I can show my own completed and flying > airplane to some of you people who I met in person last week at Oshkosh. > > Thanks! > > Patrick > 601XL/Corvair > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126439#126439 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:50 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: main gear rubber cushions From: "DaveG601XL" Dred, My gear kit supplied four pieces of rubber hose cut in half lengthwise. Per the assembly guide I installed one above and below the gear where it interfaces with the four bolts that hold it in place. They were supplied oversize and need to be cut to length. Per my actual communication with Zenith, they said it was OK to drill and tap the gear leg trailing edge to screw in adel clamps. They steered me away from my original question about routing a channel on the training egde to imbed the brake line. Good luck -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126610#126610 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:40 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: main gear rubber cushions From: "Gig Giacona" I can ditto everything that Dave wrote but can add that I drilled a hole in the rubber so the bolt can go through them. And yes the half hoses are the rubber washers. They are there to seperate the steel mount from the aluminium gear. As to drilling the holes in the bolts for the cotter I've put that off myself because I'm sure I'll go though multiple bits. Ask Zenith about using Nylocs and let me know what you hear. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126612#126612 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:06 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: main gear rubber cushions Thanks for the fast reply. Where in the name of Chas Lindberg did you find that info in the assembly guide? I've poured over it several times and did not pick up that tidbit. That explains why the rubber does not show in the photos.... it is flattened out between the gear and the gear mount and likewise between the gear and the L-angle. Much clearer now. I'm guessing that I need to bore a couple of holes in each piece of rubber for the 1/2" bolts and that will make them stay put once installed, right? Thanks again, Dred Do Not Archive ---- DaveG601XL wrote: > > Dred, > > My gear kit supplied four pieces of rubber hose cut in half lengthwise. Per the assembly guide I installed one above and below the gear where it interfaces with the four bolts that hold it in place. They were supplied oversize and need to be cut to length. > > Per my actual communication with Zenith, they said it was OK to drill and tap the gear leg trailing edge to screw in adel clamps. They steered me away from my original question about routing a channel on the training egde to imbed the brake line. > > Good luck > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL, tail and wings completed, > fueslage almost done, engine next. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:50 AM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Zenith-List: New Rotax Installation and Maintenance Manuals I was notified a few days ago that Rotax had replaced the Installation and Maintenance Manuals for 912 and 914 engines. If you go to www.Rotax-owner.com/ you will find that they are available for sale from your distributer. If you go to www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/ you can find them for free download (PDF Format). Leo Gates ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: inflight breakups From: "Gig Giacona" There were many post about them back a few months ago. Please search the archives. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126617#126617 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:57 AM PST US From: HermanMullis@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Scam Alert Warning! Be on the look out for Tom and Brenda Henderson of 2440 NE Evans St. in McMinnville, OR. He claims to be a Zodiac builder. I found him 3 months ago in the old Zodiac files in this list, advertising to make parts with a CNC machine and then again advertising on Barnstormers. Sent him some money and he never even sent a rivet. Now , he no longer answers e-mail, phone calls or letters. i got bitten by this crook! Everyone else watch out!!! If you have any info on these people, please let me know! Thx! HKM, just started Zodiac XL. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Neighbor's tried to 'Intervene' on my project From: zodierocket@hsfx.ca Though, I sent a letter off list I would also like to add one to this list. This gent had one Airline Pilot who insisted that GA was a dangerous situation. Yet I personally know of 4 Air Canada Pilots that own and built 601's and say completely different. One pilot flys an Airbus A320 another two fly 747's and one I'm not sure about, but they are all PIC on those big planes. So if I know 4 personally we are at 4 to 1 on the side of the 601's. Surely their are more. This sounds more like saying Brussel sprouts will kill you, just because I don't like them. Mark > > Hi Patrick, > > My feelings go to you and your wife. > > I guess I don't really understand the content of > the warning given to your wife. If it was that > any home built aircraft has some danger > associated with it, then I agree. If it was that > the CH601XL is particularly dangerous in the > field of home built aircraft then I > disagree. While there have been some unfortunate > accidents with XLs recently, the number of > accidents is still very low. I still think the > most dangerous part of any flight in an XL is the > drive to the airport. Cars are really dangerous! > > As to airline pilots knowing everything -- I have > serious doubts. They are all competent pilots, > but their experience with experimental aircraft > varies from nothing to being "repeat > offenders". What they do seem to hold in common > is a great respect for following the rules and > being safety conscious. This is what they are trained to respect. > > Good luck, > > Paul > XL fuselage > do not archive > > At 01:49 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >> >>Last week while I was at Oshkosh, a couple of my >>neighbors came over to my house to talk with my wife. >> >>"We'd like to sit down and talk with you about >>your husbands airplane project..." >> >>They really scared my wife. :( >> >>To make a very long story short, one of my >>neighbors (who moved here from Modesto, CA - you >>guys know what that means) is an airline pilot, >>which to my non-pilot wife means that he knows >>Everything about All Aircraft. He's also a >>fellow EAA member (social member, not a >>builder). For reasons that are not important >>here, suffice it to say that there is nothing >>that I can ever say or demonstrate to him that >>will ever convince him that the 601 XL is a safe >>design. He is quite passionate and vocal about that. >> >>While I don't appreciated that they waited until >>I was gone before coming over, I'm not angry >>because I know that he has my (or at least my >>wife's) best interest and safety at heart. >> >>Be that as it may, support from ones spouse is >>critical in completing an airplane project. So >>in order to arm myself with the latest >>information, I took the opportunity while at >>Oshkosh to speak with several people who's >>technical abilities I greatly respect. People >>who flew their 601's in. The Zenith >>folks. People with real-world experience. And >>people who are builders just like me who face >>the same decisions and the same questions - and >>who came to the same conclusions. >> >>You guys know who you are and I thank you for answering my questions. >> >>All these people helped reassure and reinforce >>for me that the decisions I have made were good >>decisions. Based on that, I believe I was able >>to control the damage and reassure my wife and thus maintain her support. >> >>Today I am more confident than ever that the 601 >>XL is the right airplane. I hope to have my >>airframe completed this winter, my engine >>running next spring, and a flying airplane that >>I can bring to Oshkosh. I am really looking >>forward to the day when I can show my own >>completed and flying airplane to some of you >>people who I met in person last week at Oshkosh. >> >>Thanks! >> >>Patrick >>601XL/Corvair >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:45 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: main gear rubber cushions Actually Gig, what I was thinking about was the type of locknut that is all metal. I've heard them referred to as high temperature locknuts. They are the AN363 nuts shown on this page at AS http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ha/nuts.html Thanks for the help, Dred ---- Gig Giacona wrote: > > I can ditto everything that Dave wrote but can add that I drilled a hole in the rubber so the bolt can go through them. And yes the half hoses are the rubber washers. They are there to seperate the steel mount from the aluminium gear. > > As to drilling the holes in the bolts for the cotter I've put that off myself because I'm sure I'll go though multiple bits. Ask Zenith about using Nylocs and let me know what you hear. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:05 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: main gear rubber cushions From: "DaveG601XL" Dred, Using the upper right corner of drawing 6-G-3 (08/05 version), I poured over the assembly guide and found decent shots on page 3 (top right and bottom pictures), page 4 (top picture), page 9 (bottom picture) and page 10 (top picture). Now granted, the guide does not say a whole lot and without the drawing reference I would not have known what I was looking at. What is really lacking is a torque spec or some sort of tightening instructions on the nuts. Mine is "snug." As to Gig's cotter key hole comment, I did not ruin any drill bits. I started with a 3/32 and drilled it by hand using the nut castelations as a visual guide. I followed up with the smallest bit that allowed the key to go in. No problems. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126628#126628 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:42 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scam Alert I don't think there's a scam going on here. The info sounds like the guy who made up some standard L-angles for me a while back. It took a while longer than I had expected but he sent me twice as many for the original agreed price. That price BTW was about one quarter of what Zenith charges for the same part despite the obvious fact that Zenith must get them made in a much greater volume. He didn't impress me as a scam artist but I can be fooled. Try the following address: admin@arachnidrobotics.com Dred ---- HermanMullis@aol.com wrote: > Warning! Be on the look out for Tom and Brenda Henderson of 2440 NE Evans > St. in McMinnville, OR. > > He claims to be a Zodiac builder. I found him 3 months ago in the old > Zodiac files in this list, advertising to make parts with a CNC machine and then > again advertising on Barnstormers. Sent him some money and he never even sent > a rivet. > > Now , he no longer answers e-mail, phone calls or letters. i got bitten by > this crook! Everyone else watch out!!! > > If you have any info on these people, please let me know! Thx! > HKM, just started Zodiac XL. > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:55 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: main gear rubber cushions Thanks dave. Guess I'm just being a chicken, Dred Do Not Archive ---- DaveG601XL wrote: > > Dred, > > Using the upper right corner of drawing 6-G-3 (08/05 version), I poured over the assembly guide and found decent shots on page 3 (top right and bottom pictures), page 4 (top picture), page 9 (bottom picture) and page 10 (top picture). Now granted, the guide does not say a whole lot and without the drawing reference I would not have known what I was looking at. What is really lacking is a torque spec or some sort of tightening instructions on the nuts. Mine is "snug." > > As to Gig's cotter key hole comment, I did not ruin any drill bits. I started with a 3/32 and drilled it by hand using the nut castelations as a visual guide. I followed up with the smallest bit that allowed the key to go in. No problems. > > Good luck, > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL, tail and wings completed, > fueslage almost done, engine next. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:37 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: main gear rubber cushions Check the upper right corner drawing/specs on 6G3. There is a listing stating these nuts as an option. Ed ---- Gig Giacona wrote: > > I can ditto everything that Dave wrote but can add that I drilled a hole in the rubber so the bolt can go through them. And yes the half hoses are the rubber washers. They are there to seperate the steel mount from the aluminium gear. > > As to drilling the holes in the bolts for the cotter I've put that off myself because I'm sure I'll go though multiple bits. Ask Zenith about using Nylocs and let me know what you hear. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:11 AM PST US From: "David Brooks" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project Just a quick thought on the consequences of the different approaches to dealing with this 'concerned neighbor'. I had a guy who lived next door to me in a very crowded neighborhood in CA walk into my garage while I was rebuilding my track car and suggest that I was two sticks short of a full kite for (1) even thinking about racing and (2) doing my own work on the car, especially the (horror of horrors!) the brakes. (Why do people think the brakes are so complicated?) I patiently listened to him, explained all the safety gear in the car including the roll bar, the seats and harnesses, the fire suppression (just a pair of Halon extinguishers, but he didn't need to know the details), etc. I sat him in the car and strapped him in and showed him how the harnesses work, talked about how much safer it was to drive at speed on a track with all well trained drivers in well prepared (and carefully inspected) cars with corner flaggers and EMS standing by than it is to driv e on I5 at rush hour with cell phone using morons who are balancing their checkbooks while doing 80 mph, yada, yada, yada. I don't think I had him completely converted but at least he was more sympathetic and it ended as a friendly exchange. Here's the point - I could have just blown this guy off but I think that he was much, much more understanding when it came time to tune the car - hours and hours of running the (not so quiet) car in the garage and driveway, driving it up and down the road, fiddling, more noise, etc. He even offere d to 'help', if you can imagine. I will never know for sure, but my best guess is that if I told him to stuff it that first day then I would have ha d all sorts of noise complaints and visits from the local PD. Now I understand that this is a different situation than someone going behind your back to scare your family, but it might be worth the effort to win this guy over. If you have any intention of painting your bird in the driveway, doing the run-in on the engine at home, whatever, then I would suggest at least avoid pissing him off if at all possible. Making an enem y out of a neighbor that already thinks you are doing something dangerous and irresponsible (with respect to your family) might just make things worse. It might be a tough nut to swallow, but making a friend out this jerk could pay dividends later. Yes, fences make good neighbors, but happy (or at least placated) neighbors are almost as good. Dave On 7/31/07, Clyde Barcus wrote: > > > Patrick, > > You are a far better man than me! Anyone that would go around me and scar e > > my family is not a friend of mine, I would have confronted him upon my > return and made it clear not to ever cross that line again. If he didn't > understand, and agree, that meddling in my family affairs is off limits, > then our friendship would end there. If he rode a motorcycle I would not > take it upon myself to discuss the perils of riding with his family. > > Clyde Barcus > 601 XL, Continental Powered > Wings, Tail & Engine Complete > Working on Fuselage > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "PatrickW" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 3:49 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project > > > > > > Last week while I was at Oshkosh, a couple of my neighbors came over to > my > > house to talk with my wife. > > > > "We'd like to sit down and talk with you about your husband?Ts airpl ane > > > project..." > > > > They really scared my wife. :( > > > > To make a very long story short, one of my neighbors (who moved here > from > > Modesto, CA - you guys know what that means) is an airline pilot, which > to > > my non-pilot wife means that he knows Everything about All > Aircraft. He's > > also a fellow EAA member (social member, not a builder). For reasons > that > > are not important here, suffice it to say that there is nothing that I > can > > ever say or demonstrate to him that will ever convince him that the 601 > XL > > is a safe design. He is quite passionate and vocal about that. > > > > While I don't appreciated that they waited until I was gone before > coming > > over, I'm not angry because I know that he has my (or at least my > wife's) > > best interest and safety at heart. > > > > Be that as it may, support from ones spouse is critical in completing a n > > > airplane project. So in order to arm myself with the latest > information, > > I took the opportunity while at Oshkosh to speak with several people > who's > > technical abilities I greatly respect. People who flew their 601's in. > > The Zenith folks. People with real-world experience. And people who > are > > builders just like me who face the same decisions and the same question s > - > > and who came to the same conclusions. > > > > You guys know who you are and I thank you for answering my questions. > > > > All these people helped reassure and reinforce for me that the decision s > I > > have made were good decisions. Based on that, I believe I was able to > > control the damage and reassure my wife and thus maintain her support. > > > > Today I am more confident than ever that the 601 XL is the right > airplane. > > I hope to have my airframe completed this winter, my engine running nex t > > > spring, and a flying airplane that I can bring to Oshkosh. I am really > > looking forward to the day when I can show my own completed and flying > > airplane to some of you people who I met in person last week at Oshkosh .. > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Patrick > > 601XL/Corvair > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126439#126439 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:24 AM PST US From: Keystone Engineering LLC Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 Takeoff w flaps I use about 10 degrees of flaperons every time I take off in my 801. I leave them down until I reach cruise. I find I get out shorter and climb faster. As I always warn, if you are in a strong cross wind leave the flaps up!!! About 3 years ago the factory changed the up setting on the flaperons. The plane actually flys a lot better with 2 or 3 degrees of flaperons down. It is just 3 or 4 MPH slower. Try it you will like it. Bill Wilcox N801BW 320 hrs ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:05 AM PST US From: Tom Henderson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scam Alert Hey! No, no scam. : ) Please email me at admin@arachnidrobotics asap Herman. Shipping has been unacceptably slow the last two months for a number of reasons, but I have no record of a Herman Mullis whatsoever. Perhaps it was in a different name? Either way, please contact me so we can get to the bottom of it. Thanks! HermanMullis@aol.com wrote: Warning! Be on the look out for Tom and Brenda Henderson of 2440 NE Evans St. in McMinnville, OR. He claims to be a Zodiac builder. I found him 3 months ago in the old Zodiac files in this list, advertising to make parts with a CNC machine and then again advertising on Barnstormers. Sent him some money and he never even sent a rivet. Now , he no longer answers e-mail, phone calls or letters. i got bitten by this crook! Everyone else watch out!!! If you have any info on these people, please let me know! Thx! HKM, just started Zodiac XL. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:40 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: main gear rubber cushions You need to tighten them per the size bolt and nut not just "snug" when they are tight you will have slightly bent the lower angle and I thought I was gonna strip the nut but the specs in the book are correct. Im thinking it was around 65 ft lbs but I don't have the book in front of me but the torque is up there. Jeff ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:59 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Neighbor's tried to 'Intervene' on my project Re: commercial pilots, experimental aircraft and safety: Don't forget the guy in Switzerland who mounts a wing with model aircraft jet engines to his back and jumps out of an airplane. He is a pilot for Swiss Air. www.jet-man.com ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:22 AM PST US From: SABorns@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: inflight breakups Yes, I read in an EAA publication that Chris Heinz is doing additional load testing on the 601. I just wanted to post what was in the NTSB Aviation data base. Steven Bornstein 475 E. North Broadway Columbus, Ohio 43214 614 263-5819 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:38 AM PST US From: Ryan Vechinski Subject: Zenith-List: Ch-701 and Jabiru Engine Choices I'm thinking about engine choices for my 701 (for the future). I was alway s set on the 912S, because I might put floats on my plane some day. At Air Venture this year, however, I took a walk through the Jabiru tent and looke d at their engines. I flat out told the sales guy to convince me to purcha se a Jabiru over a Rotax, and he just might have. I really like that littl e engine, and it's simplicity, and the fact it is very very similar in desi gn to a Lycoming/Continental (speaking to my comfort zone only here). However... The 2200 is only 85 hp; 15 hp short of the 912S, which is what I wanted, bu t 5 hp more than the 912 (which has already proven itself in the 701 airfra me already). The 3300 is a much bigger engine, but still within weight specs, albeit ver y very close. It does exceed the hp limitation of 100 hp, but Jabiru, like Rotax, limits the 120 hp to "intermittent" only, (basically takeoff power) , then drops back to 105 hp (much closer to the design spec). Also, at the lower hp, the Jabiru is spinning slower (read bigger prop). Has anyone put a 3300 in a 701? Is it indeed too heavy, where any gains in hp over the 2200 will be lost? To the 2200 flyers out there, are you happy with the 701's performance with a 2200? I'm curious about climb rate and cruise speed. I know the 701 is not a cross country machine, but I would like as much as I could get, if I ever fly anywhere in particular :) ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump From: japhillipsga@aol.com John, I also have a Jab 3300. Read in the installation manual. Somewhere it specfiies that the pump is heat sensitive and not to mount it on the firewall.?I mounted on the floor forward of the rudder pedals. Seems to be doing ok over the last 113 hours. Best regards, Bill -----Original Message----- From: John Davis Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:10 am Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump ? I finally got my Jabiru 3300 and am thinking about the fuel system. I'm planning on using the Zenith supplied andair fuel selector and gascolator. I'm wondering if it makes sense to keep the facet fuel pump in the cabin or mount it to the firewall ? Zenith seems to recommend the cabin but I note that William Winn seems to mount his fuel pumps on the engine side of the firewall. I will also be installing a fuel flow sensor on the firewall for my Dynon D180.? ? Any thoughts as to whats best ?? ? Thanks,? John Davis? Burnsville, NC? 601XL - Jabiru 3300? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:06 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ch-701 and Jabiru Engine Choices > Has anyone put a 3300 in a 701? Here is a 3300 on Jim Sagerser's 701: www.usjabiru.com/Zenith%20701%20fwf.htm -- Craig ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:16 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: main gear rubber cushions ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:27 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: main gear rubber cushions ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:26 PM PST US From: "milreed" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps701 Takeoff w flaps Chuck I saw that block on your web site. I was thinking, was done for prop clearance, since we were last discussing this subject. I guess it is a drilled out aluminum block with lightening holes Or ? Did you get a new prop? My 2200 arrives 9/8/07 and we will pick it up in Fresno with the FWF kit. They don't have a cowling, so I plan to make that part. I see hinges on the sides of yours, do you just pull the rod out to take it off? Oil door ?? I will make it like yours so send full set of plans ( just kidding). Mucho preguntas! Mil ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:16 PM PST US From: "Ron Lalonde" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Scam Alert Hi Herman Tom is indeed a builder and has helped many builders on the Zenith list, myself included. He is a knowledgable builder and a great source of information, as are many on this list. Hopefully you can iron out this misunderstanding as he is certainly not a scam artist by any means!!! Ron >Warning! Be on the look out for Tom and Brenda Henderson of 2440 NE Evans >St. in McMinnville, OR. > >He claims to be a Zodiac builder. I found him 3 months ago in the old >Zodiac files in this list, advertising to make parts with a CNC machine >and then >again advertising on Barnstormers. Sent him some money and he never even >sent >a rivet. > >Now , he no longer answers e-mail, phone calls or letters. i got bitten >by >this crook! Everyone else watch out!!! > >If you have any info on these people, please let me know! Thx! >HKM, just started Zodiac XL. > > _________________________________________________________________ Put Your Face In Your Space with Windows Live Spaces http://spaces.live.com/?mkt=en-ca ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:16 PM PST US From: Robert Schoenberger Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps701 Takeoff w flaps Mil . . . just curious. Did you order the 701 FWF for the Jab 2200 some time ago. I thought when I looked at their website earlier today that they offered a complete cowling which has an oil door built into it. Robert 701 65% do not archive. milreed wrote: > Chuck > I saw that block on your web site. I was thinking, was done for prop clearance, since we were last discussing this subject. I guess it is a drilled out aluminum block with lightening holes Or ? Did you get a new prop? My 2200 arrives 9/8/07 and we will pick it up in Fresno with the FWF kit. They don't have a cowling, so I plan to make that part. I see hinges on the sides of yours, do you just pull the rod out to take it off? Oil door ?? I will make it like yours so send full set of plans ( just kidding). Mucho preguntas! > Mil > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:12 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: main gear rubber cushions Is there anything other than the squeeze of the bolt torque which will act to keep the upper rubber in place? Dred ---- Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:06 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: main gear rubber cushions just the friction. your best bet is to not cut just to fit. but make it large and cut two holes to go over the Bolts, then it will not go anywhere. Juan Vega -----Original Message----- >From: dredmoody@cox.net >Sent: Jul 31, 2007 3:53 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: main gear rubber cushions > > >Is there anything other than the squeeze of the bolt torque which will act to keep the upper rubber in place? > >Dred > >---- Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at >> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:30 PM PST US From: "john H" Subject: Zenith-List: Airshow Saturday, Aug 11, 2007 Richlands, VA. 9th Annual Tazewell County Airshow. Tazewell County Airport (6V3) Beautiful country setting. Numerous acts and static displays. 1 of 2 airshows in VA offering airshow stamp for VA ambassador program. Free pilot breakfast. Specials on avgas. Airplane rides. Excellent show for the whole family. Fly in for free. Drive in $5 a car load. Food and drink concessions. Come spend a fun filled day in the beautiful mountains of southwest VA. Runway closes at noon for the show. Contact: Buford Cordle 276-963-4509 _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:09 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Neighbor's tried to i have found that many people in this world do not like it when other people are enjoying life to the fullest and will project that by expressing their concerns to the person they see as someone who isdoing something they wish they could. Sad but true. juan -----Original Message----- >From: David Brooks >Sent: Jul 31, 2007 12:56 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project > >Just a quick thought on the consequences of the different approaches to >dealing with this 'concerned neighbor'. I had a guy who lived next door to >me in a very crowded neighborhood in CA walk into my garage while I was >rebuilding my track car and suggest that I was two sticks short of a full >kite for (1) even thinking about racing and (2) doing my own work on the >car, especially the (horror of horrors!) the brakes. (Why do people think >the brakes are so complicated?) > >I patiently listened to him, explained all the safety gear in the car >including the roll bar, the seats and harnesses, the fire suppression (just >a pair of Halon extinguishers, but he didn't need to know the details), >etc. I sat him in the car and strapped him in and showed him how the >harnesses work, talked about how much safer it was to drive at speed on a >track with all well trained drivers in well prepared (and carefully >inspected) cars with corner flaggers and EMS standing by than it is to drive >on I5 at rush hour with cell phone using morons who are balancing their >checkbooks while doing 80 mph, yada, yada, yada. I don't think I had him >completely converted but at least he was more sympathetic and it ended as a >friendly exchange. > >Here's the point - I could have just blown this guy off but I think that he >was much, much more understanding when it came time to tune the car - hours >and hours of running the (not so quiet) car in the garage and driveway, >driving it up and down the road, fiddling, more noise, etc. He even offered >to 'help', if you can imagine. I will never know for sure, but my best >guess is that if I told him to stuff it that first day then I would have had >all sorts of noise complaints and visits from the local PD. > >Now I understand that this is a different situation than someone going >behind your back to scare your family, but it might be worth the effort to >win this guy over. If you have any intention of painting your bird in the >driveway, doing the run-in on the engine at home, whatever, then I would >suggest at least avoid pissing him off if at all possible. Making an enemy >out of a neighbor that already thinks you are doing something dangerous and >irresponsible (with respect to your family) might just make things worse. >It might be a tough nut to swallow, but making a friend out this jerk could >pay dividends later. > >Yes, fences make good neighbors, but happy (or at least placated) neighbors >are almost as good. > >Dave > > >On 7/31/07, Clyde Barcus wrote: >> >> >> Patrick, >> >> You are a far better man than me! Anyone that would go around me and scare >> >> my family is not a friend of mine, I would have confronted him upon my >> return and made it clear not to ever cross that line again. If he didn't >> understand, and agree, that meddling in my family affairs is off limits, >> then our friendship would end there. If he rode a motorcycle I would not >> take it upon myself to discuss the perils of riding with his family. >> >> Clyde Barcus >> 601 XL, Continental Powered >> Wings, Tail & Engine Complete >> Working on Fuselage >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "PatrickW" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 3:49 PM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project >> >> >> > >> > Last week while I was at Oshkosh, a couple of my neighbors came over to >> my >> > house to talk with my wife. >> > >> > "We'd like to sit down and talk with you about your husband?Ts airplane >> >> > project..." >> > >> > They really scared my wife. :( >> > >> > To make a very long story short, one of my neighbors (who moved here >> from >> > Modesto, CA - you guys know what that means) is an airline pilot, which >> to >> > my non-pilot wife means that he knows Everything about All >> Aircraft. He's >> > also a fellow EAA member (social member, not a builder). For reasons >> that >> > are not important here, suffice it to say that there is nothing that I >> can >> > ever say or demonstrate to him that will ever convince him that the 601 >> XL >> > is a safe design. He is quite passionate and vocal about that. >> > >> > While I don't appreciated that they waited until I was gone before >> coming >> > over, I'm not angry because I know that he has my (or at least my >> wife's) >> > best interest and safety at heart. >> > >> > Be that as it may, support from ones spouse is critical in completing an >> >> > airplane project. So in order to arm myself with the latest >> information, >> > I took the opportunity while at Oshkosh to speak with several people >> who's >> > technical abilities I greatly respect. People who flew their 601's in. >> > The Zenith folks. People with real-world experience. And people who >> are >> > builders just like me who face the same decisions and the same questions >> - >> > and who came to the same conclusions. >> > >> > You guys know who you are and I thank you for answering my questions. >> > >> > All these people helped reassure and reinforce for me that the decisions >> I >> > have made were good decisions. Based on that, I believe I was able to >> > control the damage and reassure my wife and thus maintain her support. >> > >> > Today I am more confident than ever that the 601 XL is the right >> airplane. >> > I hope to have my airframe completed this winter, my engine running next >> >> > spring, and a flying airplane that I can bring to Oshkosh. I am really >> > looking forward to the day when I can show my own completed and flying >> > airplane to some of you people who I met in person last week at Oshkosh. >> >> > >> > Thanks! >> > >> > Patrick >> > 601XL/Corvair >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126439#126439 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >=========== >=========== >=========== >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:20 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Control cables for 601XL From: "lwinger" The plans (6-B-23) say 1/8" 7x19 Galvanized control cables. The folks in the shop at Zenith say they are using stainless steel. Stainless steel makes sense to me as well. Any reason not to use it? -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL/Corvair from scratch Control surfaces and wing spars complete Making wing ribs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126750#126750 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:53 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Neighbor's tried to 'Intervene' on my project Geez Mark,,, Brussel Sprouts WILL kill you, The only two things I will n ot eat are Brussel Sprouts and Liver..... Just think about it, the funct ion of the liver it to filter out impurities in the blood, kinda like ea ting an old oil filter... YUCK.. and do not archive for sure.. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- zodierocket@hsfx.ca wrote: Though, I sent a letter off list I would also like to add one to this list. This gent had one Airline Pilot who insisted that GA was a dangero us situation. Yet I personally know of 4 Air Canada Pilots that own and bui lt 601's and say completely different. One pilot flys an Airbus A320 anothe r two fly 747's and one I'm not sure about, but they are all PIC on those big planes. So if I know 4 personally we are at 4 to 1 on the side of th e 601's. Surely their are more. This sounds more like saying Brussel sprou ts will kill you, just because I don't like them. Mark > > Hi Patrick, > > My feelings go to you and your wife. > > I guess I don't really understand the content of > the warning given to your wife. If it was that > any home built aircraft has some danger > associated with it, then I agree. If it was that > the CH601XL is particularly dangerous in the > field of home built aircraft then I > disagree. While there have been some unfortunate > accidents with XLs recently, the number of > accidents is still very low. I still think the > most dangerous part of any flight in an XL is the > drive to the airport. Cars are really dangerous! > > As to airline pilots knowing everything -- I have > serious doubts. They are all competent pilots, > but their experience with experimental aircraft > varies from nothing to being "repeat > offenders". What they do seem to hold in common > is a great respect for following the rules and > being safety conscious. This is what they are trained to respect. > > Good luck, > > Paul > XL fuselage > do not archive > > At 01:49 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >> >>Last week while I was at Oshkosh, a couple of my >>neighbors came over to my house to talk with my wife. >> >>"We'd like to sit down and talk with you about >>your husband=99s airplane project..." >> >>They really scared my wife. :( >> >>To make a very long story short, one of my >>neighbors (who moved here from Modesto, CA - you >>guys know what that means) is an airline pilot, >>which to my non-pilot wife means that he knows >>Everything about All Aircraft. He's also a >>fellow EAA member (social member, not a >>builder). For reasons that are not important >>here, suffice it to say that there is nothing >>that I can ever say or demonstrate to him that >>will ever convince him that the 601 XL is a safe >>design. He is quite passionate and vocal about that. >> >>While I don't appreciated that they waited until >>I was gone before coming over, I'm not angry >>because I know that he has my (or at least my >>wife's) best interest and safety at heart. >> >>Be that as it may, support from ones spouse is >>critical in completing an airplane project. So >>in order to arm myself with the latest >>information, I took the opportunity while at >>Oshkosh to speak with several people who's >>technical abilities I greatly respect. People >>who flew their 601's in. The Zenith >>folks. People with real-world experience. And >>people who are builders just like me who face >>the same decisions and the same questions - and >>who came to the same conclusions. >> >>You guys know who you are and I thank you for answering my questions. >> >>All these people helped reassure and reinforce >>for me that the decisions I have made were good >>decisions. Based on that, I believe I was able >>to control the damage and reassure my wife and thus maintain her suppo rt. >> >>Today I am more confident than ever that the 601 >>XL is the right airplane. I hope to have my >>airframe completed this winter, my engine >>running next spring, and a flying airplane that >>I can bring to Oshkosh. I am really looking >>forward to the day when I can show my own >>completed and flying airplane to some of you >>people who I met in person last week at Oshkosh. >> >>Thanks! >> >>Patrick >>601XL/Corvair >> >> > > ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

Geez Mark,,, Brussel Sprouts WILL kill you, The only two things I will not eat are Brussel Sprouts and Liver..... Just think about it, the function of the liver it to filter out impurities in the blood, kinda like eating an old oil filter... YUCK.. and

do not archive for sure..


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.h aaspowerair.com

-- zodierocket@hsfx.ca wrote:
-->  Zenith-List message posted by: zodierocket@hsf x.ca

Though, I sent a letter off li st I would also like to add one  to this
list. This gent had one Airline  Pilot who insisted that GA was a&nbs p;dangerous
situation. Yet I personally know  ;of 4 Air Canada Pilots that own and& nbsp;built
601's and say completely different.&nb sp;One pilot flys an Airbus A320 anothertwo fly 747's and one I'm not sure& nbsp;about, but they are all PIC on t hose
big planes. So if I know 4 pe rsonally we are at 4 to 1 on the  side of the
601's. Surely their are&nb sp;more. This sounds more like saying Brus sel sprouts
will kill you, just because  ;I don't like them.

Mark


> --&g t; Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mul witz <psm@att.net>
>
> Hi Patrick,
& gt;
> My feelings go to you and  ;your wife.
>
> I guess I don't&nbs p;really understand the content of
> the& nbsp;warning given to your wife.  If  it was that
> any home built aircraf t has some danger
> associated with  it, then I agree.  If it was tha t
> the CH601XL is particularly dangerous  in the
> field of home built a ircraft then I
> disagree.  While th ere have been some unfortunate
> accident s with XLs recently, the number of
>  accidents is still very low.  I  ;still think the
> most dangerous part&nb sp;of any flight in an XL is the
& gt; drive to the airport.  Cars are&n bsp;really dangerous!
>
> As to airline& nbsp;pilots knowing everything -- I have
> ; serious doubts.  They are all compe tent pilots,
> but their experience with& nbsp;experimental aircraft
> varies from nothi ng to being "repeat
> offenders".  W hat they do seem to hold in common
> is a great respect for following&nbs p;the rules and
> being safety conscious.   This is what they are trained  to respect.
>
> Good luck,
>
>&nb sp;Paul
> XL fuselage
> do not arch ive
>
> At 01:49 PM 7/30/2007, you& nbsp;wrote:
>>--> Zenith-List message posted& nbsp;by: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
>>
&g t;>Last week while I was at Oshkosh,&nb sp;a couple of my
>>neighbors came ove r to my house to talk with my wi fe.
>>
>>"We'd like to sit down&nb sp;and talk with you about
>>your husb and=99s airplane project..."
>>
>>They  really scared my wife.   :(
>& gt;
>>To make a very long story s hort, one of my
>>neighbors (who moved  here from Modesto, CA - you
>>gu ys know what that means) is an airlin e pilot,
>>which to my non-pilot wife& nbsp;means that he knows
>>Everything about  All Aircraft.  He's also a
>>fel low EAA member (social member, not a
&g t;>builder).  For reasons that are not& nbsp;important
>>here, suffice it to say&nb sp;that there is nothing
>>that I can& nbsp;ever say or demonstrate to him that>>will ever convince him that the  601 XL is a safe
>>design.  He&nb sp;is quite passionate and vocal about tha t.
>>
>>While I don't appreciated  that they waited until
>>I was gone&nb sp;before coming over, I'm not angry
>> ;because I know that he has my (or&nb sp;at least my
>>wife's) best interest  ;and safety at heart.
>>
>>Be that  as it may, support from ones spouse& nbsp;is
>>critical in completing an airplan e project.  So
>>in order to arm& nbsp;myself with the latest
>>information,  I took the opportunity while at
>>Oshk osh to speak with several people who's
>>technical abilities I greatly respect.   People
>>who flew their 601's in.&nbs p; The Zenith
>>folks.  People with&nb sp;real-world experience.  And
>>people who  are builders just like me who face>>the same decisions and the same  questions - and
>>who came to the  ;same conclusions.
>>
>>You guys know&n bsp;who you are and I thank you for&n bsp;answering my questions.
>>
>>All th ese people helped reassure and reinforce
> ;>for me that the decisions I have  ;made were good
>>decisions.  Based on  that, I believe I was able
>>to& nbsp;control the damage and reassure my wi fe and thus maintain her support.
>>>>Today I am more confident than e ver that the 601
>>XL is the righ t airplane.  I hope to have my
> ;>airframe completed this winter, my engine< BR>>>running next spring, and a flying&nb sp;airplane that
>>I can bring to Oshk osh.  I am really looking
>>forward&nb sp;to the day when I can show my  ;own
>>completed and flying airplane to&nbs p;some of you
>>people who I met  in person last week at Oshkosh.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Patrick
>>601XL/Corvair< BR>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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_ -= the many List utilities such as  sp;  --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Lis ======================== sp;          - NE at content now also available via the  ======================== =================
________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:13 PM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Zenith-List: Tom Henderson Members, If Tom Henderson is not a scamer then why does he not address the copied and pasted remarks below. >He claims to be a Zodiac builder. I found him 3 months ago in the old >Zodiac files in this list, advertising to make parts with a CNC machine >and then >again advertising on Barnstormers. Sent him some money and he never even >sent >a rivet. > >Now , he no longer answers e-mail, phone calls or letters. i got bitten >by >this crook! Everyone else watch out!!! He claims he never heard of the guy who sent him money and received nothing. Where did the money go then. Some explaining need to be done here. why has he not answered phone calls and e-mails????? Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:26 PM PST US From: Tom Henderson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tom Henderson Done Tracy. Thanks. : ) robert stone wrote: Members, If Tom Henderson is not a scamer then why does he not address the copied and pasted remarks below. >He claims to be a Zodiac builder. I found him 3 months ago in the old >Zodiac files in this list, advertising to make parts with a CNC machine >and then >again advertising on Barnstormers. Sent him some money and he never even >sent >a rivet. > >Now , he no longer answers e-mail, phone calls or letters. i got bitten >by >this crook! Everyone else watch out!!! He claims he never heard of the guy who sent him money and received nothing. Where did the money go then. Some explaining need to be done here. why has he not answered phone calls and e-mails????? Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:11 PM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Zenith-List: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? I have two built-up aileron bellcranks nicely reamed out to 6.4mm (=.252 in). Unfortunately, I now find that the bushing material I have mic's out at .2535. I am assuming that this hole is supposed to be .002 bigger than the bushing. A 6.5mm reamer (expensive!) is .256, while an F drill that I have already is .257. Can I get away with the F drill? Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:22 PM PST US From: "Kevin L. Rupert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tom Henderson Tracy, I'm a customer of Tom's and I'll admit his delivery times need a lot of work but his parts are as good as any I've seen. I think he just got in a little over his head a bit, but with a little patience, I feel sure he'll get that parts shipping worked out. He is a little hard to get hold of at times but if you're persistent, he will respond to emails. Kevin Rupert Lewistown, PA 601XL/Corvair ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:37 PM PST US From: Robert Hansen Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps701 Takeoff w flaps They now have the cowling and it looks sharp, I saw it at the Jabiru stand- Oshkosh.=0A=0ARob Hansen=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: milre ed =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 1:05:11 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Takeoff w flap s701 Takeoff w flaps=0A=0A=0AChuck=0AI saw that block on your web site. I w as thinking, was done for prop clearance, since we were last discussing thi s subject. I guess it is a drilled out aluminum block with lightening holes Or ? Did you get a new prop? My 2200 arrives 9/8/07 and we will pick it up in Fresno with the FWF kit. They don't have a cowling, so I plan to make t hat part. I see hinges on the sides of yours, do you just pull the rod out to take it off? Oil door ?? I will make it like yours so send full set of p ====================0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________________________________________________ ____________=0ABoardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now o.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:59 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables for 601XL use the 7x19 aviation grade. they are grease impregnated. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: lwinger >Sent: Jul 31, 2007 6:29 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Control cables for 601XL > > >The plans (6-B-23) say 1/8" 7x19 Galvanized control cables. The folks in the shop at Zenith say they are using stainless steel. > >Stainless steel makes sense to me as well. Any reason not to use it? > >-------- >Larry Winger >Tustin, CA >601XL/Corvair from scratch >Control surfaces and wing spars complete >Making wing ribs > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126750#126750 > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:30 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? From: "leinad" Andy, I think you're hole is OK. It's what is called an interference or press fit. The hole has to be smaller than the part. It shouldn't take much force to press fit the bushing in the hole. Mine was the same way and the bolt turns freely in the bushing. I think the idea is the steel bolt should turn against the bushing, and not the aluminum. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Dan > I have two built-up aileron bellcranks nicely reamed out to 6.4mm (=.252 in). Unfortunately, I now find that the bushing material I have mic's out at .2535. I am assuming that this hole is supposed to be .002 bigger than the bushing. A 6.5mm reamer (expensive!) is .256, while an F drill that I have already is .257. Can I get away with the F drill? > > Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ > N601GE (reserved) > 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126802#126802 ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:47 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Elevator From: "rhansen16" I spent the entire day working on the elevator skin and it may become a decoration piece for the "airplane factory". I put the bottom skin on, no problem rolled the top on and had a very hard time getting it to square up. When I finished and got it all together, one of the elevator tips sits higher then the other. The leftover material across the trailing edge is not equal. Any ideas where I messed up and is it fixable? For pics see my website --- http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/ Rob -------- Rob Hansen http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126814#126814 ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:20 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump From: "Ron Lendon" The reason for putting the fuel pump on the engine side of the firewall is so no pressurized fuel is in the cockpit. William has some pretty bad burn scars from being in a burning cockpit with pressurized fuel. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126817#126817 ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:24 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? Andy, I am just about one week ahead of you on this one. I, too, reamed my bellcrank with the hard-to-locate 6.4mm reamer -- only to discover that the bushing for ZAC wouldn't fit. I made another trip to McMaster-Carr in LA and got the 6.5mm and it works perfectly. While the F bit would probably work, I personally opted for the greater precision of the reamer. Drill bits tend to make holes that are oblong. If you, or anyone on the list, would like to borrow it, please just contact me off list and we can exchange info. No need in 20 of us having multiple specialty tools like this reamer. Larry Winger Tustin, CA Scratch building 601XL/Corvair Control surfaces and wings spars complete Making wing ribs On 7/31/07, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote: > > I have two built-up aileron bellcranks nicely reamed out to 6.4mm (=.252 > in). Unfortunately, I now find that the bushing material I have mic's out > at .2535. I am assuming that this hole is supposed to be .002 bigger than > the bushing. A 6.5mm reamer (expensive!) is .256, while an F drill that I > have already is .257. Can I get away with the F drill? > > Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ > N601GE (reserved) > 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:25 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables for 601XL I'm planning to purchase my cable from Aircraft Spruce, so I'm making an assumption that it is aviation grade as you described. If so, any thoughts on stainless steel in place of the specified galvanized? Larry Winger 601XL/Corvair Tustin, CA On 7/31/07, Juan Vega wrote: > > > use the 7x19 aviation grade. they are grease impregnated. > > Juan > > -----Original Message----- > >From: lwinger > >Sent: Jul 31, 2007 6:29 PM > >To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Zenith-List: Control cables for 601XL > > > > > >The plans (6-B-23) say 1/8" 7x19 Galvanized control cables. The folks in > the shop at Zenith say they are using stainless steel. > > > >Stainless steel makes sense to me as well. Any reason not to use it? > > > >-------- > >Larry Winger > >Tustin, CA > >601XL/Corvair from scratch > >Control surfaces and wing spars complete > >Making wing ribs > > > > > > > > > >Read this topic online here: > > > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126750#126750 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:44 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? Dan, I'm no expert on this, but I did talk with one of the guys in the Zenith shop. I was told that the idea is that the bushing should be able to turn freely (without slop). The idea is to reduce the wear on the bolt altogether. Like you, I'm open to correction if I'm wrong. Larry Winger 601XL/Corvair Tustin, CA On 7/31/07, leinad wrote: > > > Andy, > I think you're hole is OK. It's what is called an interference or press > fit. The hole has to be smaller than the part. It shouldn't take much > force to press fit the bushing in the hole. Mine was the same way and the > bolt turns freely in the bushing. I think the idea is the steel bolt should > turn against the bushing, and not the aluminum. > Someone correct me if I'm wrong. > Dan > > > > I have two built-up aileron bellcranks nicely reamed out to 6.4mm (=.252 > in). Unfortunately, I now find that the bushing material I have mic's out at > .2535. I am assuming that this hole is supposed to be .002 bigger than the > bushing. A 6.5mm reamer (expensive!) is .256, while an F drill that I have > already is .257. Can I get away with the F drill? > > > > Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ > > N601GE (reserved) > > 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... > > > -------- > Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126802#126802 > > ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Just a sliver of liver , makes the medicine, go down! From: martyn@flight.co.za Ben,You won't eat liver? Tsk. Tsk. The trick with liver is to take a sharp knife and slice paper thin pieces, then lightly dust it with some flour, pan fry in butter with thinly sliced pears or apples, finished it off with a dash of Calvados or a good cognac and serve it on a steaming mound of Mashed potatoes. Hmmm Hmm. Brussel sprouts served on the side..Of course! Here in SOuth Africa, an Oil filter is considered an end of the month meal, when the wallet is tight:) Martyn Ward CH701 Johannesburg South Africa Do not Archive > Geez Mark,,, Brussel Sprouts WILL kill you, The only two things I will not > eat are Brussel Sprouts and Liver..... Just think about it, the function > of the liver it to filter out impurities in the blood, kinda like eating > an old oil filter... YUCK.. and > do not archive for sure.. > > > Ben Haas > N801BH > www.haaspowerair.com > > -- zodierocket@hsfx.ca wrote: > > Though, I sent a letter off list I would also like to add one to this > list. This gent had one Airline Pilot who insisted that GA was a dangerous > situation. Yet I personally know of 4 Air Canada Pilots that own and built > 601's and say completely different. One pilot flys an Airbus A320 another > two fly 747's and one I'm not sure about, but they are all PIC on those > big planes. So if I know 4 personally we are at 4 to 1 on the side of the > 601's. Surely their are more. This sounds more like saying Brussel sprouts > will kill you, just because I don't like them. > > Mark > > >> >> Hi Patrick, >> >> My feelings go to you and your wife. >> >> I guess I don't really understand the content of >> the warning given to your wife. If it was that >> any home built aircraft has some danger >> associated with it, then I agree. If it was that >> the CH601XL is particularly dangerous in the >> field of home built aircraft then I >> disagree. While there have been some unfortunate >> accidents with XLs recently, the number of >> accidents is still very low. I still think the >> most dangerous part of any flight in an XL is the >> drive to the airport. Cars are really dangerous! >> >> As to airline pilots knowing everything -- I have >> serious doubts. They are all competent pilots, >> but their experience with experimental aircraft >> varies from nothing to being "repeat >> offenders". What they do seem to hold in common >> is a great respect for following the rules and >> being safety conscious. This is what they are trained to respect. >> >> Good luck, >> >> Paul >> XL fuselage >> do not archive >> >> At 01:49 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >>> >>>Last week while I was at Oshkosh, a couple of my >>>neighbors came over to my house to talk with my wife. >>> >>>"We'd like to sit down and talk with you about >>>your husbands airplane project..." >>> >>>They really scared my wife. :( >>> >>>To make a very long story short, one of my >>>neighbors (who moved here from Modesto, CA - you >>>guys know what that means) is an airline pilot, >>>which to my non-pilot wife means that he knows >>>Everything about All Aircraft. He's also a >>>fellow EAA member (social member, not a >>>builder). For reasons that are not important >>>here, suffice it to say that there is nothing >>>that I can ever say or demonstrate to him that >>>will ever convince him that the 601 XL is a safe >>>design. He is quite passionate and vocal about that. >>> >>>While I don't appreciated that they waited until >>>I was gone before coming over, I'm not angry >>>because I know that he has my (or at least my >>>wife's) best interest and safety at heart. >>> >>>Be that as it may, support from ones spouse is >>>critical in completing an airplane project. So >>>in order to arm myself with the latest >>>information, I took the opportunity while at >>>Oshkosh to speak with several people who's >>>technical abilities I greatly respect. People >>>who flew their 601's in. The Zenith >>>folks. People with real-world experience. And >>>people who are builders just like me who face >>>the same decisions and the same questions - and >>>who came to the same conclusions. >>> >>>You guys know who you are and I thank you for answering my questions. >>> >>>All these people helped reassure and reinforce >>>for me that the decisions I have made were good >>>decisions. Based on that, I believe I was able >>>to control the damage and reassure my wife and thus maintain her >>> support. >>> >>>Today I am more confident than ever that the 601 >>>XL is the right airplane. I hope to have my >>>airframe completed this winter, my engine >>>running next spring, and a flying airplane that >>>I can bring to Oshkosh. I am really looking >>>forward to the day when I can show my own >>>completed and flying airplane to some of you >>>people who I met in person last week at Oshkosh. >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>>Patrick >>>601XL/Corvair >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== > Do not Archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.