Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:04 AM - Thrust angle in an XL with a Jabiru 3300 (Craig Payne)
2. 04:07 AM - Re: Elevator (Paul Mulwitz)
3. 04:07 AM - Re: Elevator (Debo Cox)
4. 04:17 AM - Re: Ch-701 and Jabiru Engine Choices (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 04:21 AM - Re: Elevator (robert stone)
6. 04:36 AM - Re: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? (Geoff Heap)
7. 04:40 AM - Re: Tom Henderson (robert stone)
8. 05:30 AM - Re: Tom Henderson (Kevin L. Rupert)
9. 05:39 AM - Re: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? (dfmoeller)
10. 06:36 AM - Re: Control cables for 601XL (Juan Vega)
11. 07:01 AM - Re: Control cables for 601XL (Larry Winger)
12. 07:30 AM - Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project (Float Flyr)
13. 07:41 AM - Re: galvanized versus stainless cables (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
14. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project (Skip Perry)
15. 08:02 AM - Re: Control cables for 601XL (wade jones)
16. 08:02 AM - 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump (Joe)
17. 08:17 AM - Re: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump (Pete Krotje)
18. 08:26 AM - Re: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump (n787xl@aol.com)
19. 09:44 AM - Re: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump (Gig Giacona)
20. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps701 Takeoff w flaps (milreed)
21. 12:17 PM - Re: main gear rubber cushions (japhillipsga@aol.com)
22. 01:32 PM - Re: main gear rubber cushions (Gig Giacona)
23. 01:49 PM - 10% from Wicks (ROBERT SCEPPA)
24. 01:56 PM - Re: Thrust angle in an XL with a Jabiru 3300 (Craig Payne)
25. 03:23 PM - Re: Thrust angle in an XL with a Jabiru 3300 (Randy)
26. 03:49 PM - Re: Thrust angle in an XL with a Jabiru 3300 (Craig Payne)
27. 04:14 PM - Re: Thrust angle in an XL with a Jabiru 3300 (wade jones)
28. 07:37 PM - Re: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? (leinad)
29. 07:53 PM - Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps701 (Chuck Deiterich)
30. 09:59 PM - South African Builders (martyn@flight.co.za)
31. 10:59 PM - Re: South African Builders (Capetonian)
32. 11:05 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
33. 11:05 PM - Re: Ch-701 and Jabiru Engine Choices (jetboy)
34. 11:09 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Thrust angle in an XL with a Jabiru 3300 |
So I hung my engine for the first time tonight. The first thing I did was
stand off to the side and look at it. Hmm, nose looks low. The XL's plans
(page 6-JE-1, 12/04) indicate that the engine's crank should be parallel
with the upper longeron (basically the sill of the cockpit). According to my
digital level my thrust angle is off by about 4 degrees, prop hub low. The
same page in the plans says that the firewall should be canted back 13
degrees relative to a plumb line from the longerons while mine measures in
at 11. So that is 2 degrees of the difference, the rest must be in the motor
mount.
I see two places to attack the problem: where the motor mount bolts to the
firewall and where the engine hangs on the mount. I suspect I'll have to
shim both. Jabiru supplies 4 spacer washers with the FWF kit that can be
placed between the motor mount "pin" and the rear rubber bushing. On the
HomebuiltHELP FWF DVD Pete at Jabiru USA says you can add up to two. I'd be
adding mine at the bottom of course. What I don't like about these washers
is that without them the stepped shoulder of the front "T" washers pull down
tight against the motor mount "pins". So what happens when you add the
spacers? You have to compress the rubber bushings that much more which also
undoes some of the gain from the spacers. I may make some tubular spacers
the diameter of the mounting pins and the height of the spaces to prevent
this problem. Or I suppose I could trim the same thickness off of the front
bushing but I don't feel good about that. Either way I'm probably going to
need longer bolts.
Those are my thought on the problem. Have I missed anything? How much does
all this really matter? Somewhere I read a post quoting someone at the
Zenith factory saying that they didn't achieve the 13 degree firewall angle
all that often.
-- Craig
Message 2
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>
>I spent the entire day working on the elevator skin and it may
>become a decoration piece for the "airplane factory". I put the
>bottom skin on, no problem rolled the top on and had a very hard
>time getting it to square up. When I finished and got it all
>together, one of the elevator tips sits higher then the other. The
>leftover material across the trailing edge is not equal. Any ideas
>where I messed up and is it fixable? For pics see my website
>--- http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/
>
>
>Rob
Hi Rob,
I can't tell from your question whether the problem is a difference
of 1 mm or 50 mm. If it is small (perhaps around 10 mm difference)
then it could be many things. If it is large (perhaps 50 mm) then
you probably just made a big mistake in your cutting of the skin.
The three biggest things that come to mind for small but noticeable errors are:
1. Failure to square up the skeleton before attaching the skin. It
helps to fix it in place after squaring to keep it from moving while
marking and drilling the skin. I usually use small blocks held in
place with screws from the crate for this kind of holding.
2. Twist induced from an "Un-flat" bench top. It pays to spend the
extra time to get your bench as flat as possible.
3. Riveting induced twist. If you rivet a long line of rivets from
one end to the other then the rivets will pull the part quite a
distance and cause a twist. This can be avoided by alternating the
chosen rivet to pull on opposite sides of center. Some people use a
simple pattern back and forth, while I prefer a more random choice.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
Message 3
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Hey Rob!
Can you give us a few more detailed pics? It's hard to tell from the ones on
your site exactly what's going on. From just looking at the ones posted, it looks
like you may have distorted the structure a little by tightening the straps
a bit too much, but that's just a guess at this point.
Feel free to contact me off-list with some more pics and info if you like. I'm
no expert, but I've certainly bent more than my share of parts in directions
they're not supposed to go.
My email address is sky_ranger161 at yahoo dot com
Debo Cox
XL/Corvair Scratchbuilder
www.mykitlog.com/debo
Nags Head, NC
Right wing in progress
do not archive
---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Ch-701 and Jabiru Engine Choices |
At 10:57 AM 7/31/2007, you wrote:
>It does exceed the hp limitation of 100 hp, but Jabiru, like Rotax,
>limits the 120 hp to "intermittent" only, (basically takeoff power),
>then drops back to 105 hp (much closer to the design spec).
You need to be careful about this kind of thinking. I believe the
potential problem from having too much horsepower is the chance that
your flight controls won't have sufficient authority to overcome the
torque when you perform a "Go-around". This can cause the plane to
flip over when low and slow and close to the ground - not the best
situation to find yourself in.
I strongly urge you to get designer approval if you plan to install
an engine larger than the maximum specified on your prints.
Paul
Xl fuselage
Message 5
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Rob,
I read the part of your web site about building the elevator and
have this to say about measuring. There is an old saying about building
anything and it is:
Measure twice, cut once
Tracy Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: "rhansen16" <stol701@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Elevator
>
> I spent the entire day working on the elevator skin and it may become
a decoration piece for the "airplane factory". I put the bottom skin on,
no problem rolled the top on and had a very hard time getting it to
square up. When I finished and got it all together, one of the elevator
tips sits higher then the other. The leftover material across the
trailing edge is not equal. Any ideas where I messed up and is it
fixable? For pics see my website ---
http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/
>
>
> Rob
>
> --------
> Rob Hansen
> http://websites.expercraft.com/rhansen/
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126814#126814
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? |
Andy You may as well push it in now, press fit. I see one other choice. Get
the 6.5 reamer. Don't try to put the "F" drill in the hole. It will screw itself
in like a self tapping screw and RIP the material out of the hole...Geoff
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126856#126856
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Tom Henderson |
Kevin,
If you know and trust this Tom Henderson, you should advise him to be
prompt with answering e-mails. When doing business via the internet or
phone the importance of prompt replies cannot be overstated. Even if none
of the remarks anyone has made about Tom are true, the damage has been done
and his business will suffer because of it. I know from personal
experience, reputation is one of the most important parts of being
successful when doing business and this is more true with mail order
business than any other kind.
Tracy Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin L. Rupert" <klr12@psu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tom Henderson
>
> Tracy,
> I'm a customer of Tom's and I'll admit his delivery times need a lot of
> work but his parts are as good as any I've seen. I think he just got in a
> little over his head a bit, but with a little patience, I feel sure he'll
> get that parts shipping worked out. He is a little hard to get hold of at
> times but if you're persistent, he will respond to emails.
>
> Kevin Rupert
>
> Lewistown, PA
>
> 601XL/Corvair
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Tom Henderson |
Tracy,
First let me state that I do not know Tom personally but I have seen
his work, which is excellent. I have had more than my share of stern
words with Tom over the past few months. My business with him was
supposed to be completed in May and here it is August and I'm still
receiving parts. But I am still receiving parts. I still maintain that
he has just bitten off more than he could chew and it's taking him
longer than anticipated to catch up. If I really felt that I was in a no
win situation here, I would have hired a lawyer 2 months ago. I have
told him repeatedly to stay in contact with me and let me know what's
going on. He does not do that as often as I would like but he does do
it. So at this point, I'm stilling willing to give him the benefit of
doubt. His situation is no different than the one William Wynne has been
in for the past 2 years with parts. People were screaming for William's
head too, but it appears he now has it under control. I think, given
enough time, Tom will get it under control too. I hope my faith will be
rewarded.
Kevin Rupert
Lewistown, PA
601/Corvair
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? |
I just assembled this area in a wing I've had to rebuild.
The way that bushing works is that the bolt clamps the bushing solid with the L
brackets. This is obvious from the fact that the bushing is a slight bit longer
than the stackup being clamped. The bearing surface is between the blocks
on the bellcrank and the bushing. An interference fit is too tight. What you
want is the bushing to just slide into the blocks with as little slop as possible.
I would ream.
The downside to making it too big, even a couple thousandths, will be sloppy aileron
control, maybe not the end of the world!
Doug
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126870#126870
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Control cables for 601XL |
check with zenith but I beleieve I used GLAV 7x19 with 2000Lb strength versus SS7x19
with 1750 lbs strength.
Jaun
-----Original Message-----
>From: Larry Winger <larrywinger@gmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 1, 2007 12:30 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables for 601XL
>
>I'm planning to purchase my cable from Aircraft Spruce, so I'm making an
>assumption that it is aviation grade as you described. If so, any thoughts
>on stainless steel in place of the specified galvanized?
>
>Larry Winger
>601XL/Corvair
>Tustin, CA
>
>
>On 7/31/07, Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> use the 7x19 aviation grade. they are grease impregnated.
>>
>> Juan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: lwinger <larrywinger@gmail.com>
>> >Sent: Jul 31, 2007 6:29 PM
>> >To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> >Subject: Zenith-List: Control cables for 601XL
>> >
>> >
>> >The plans (6-B-23) say 1/8" 7x19 Galvanized control cables. The folks in
>> the shop at Zenith say they are using stainless steel.
>> >
>> >Stainless steel makes sense to me as well. Any reason not to use it?
>> >
>> >--------
>> >Larry Winger
>> >Tustin, CA
>> >601XL/Corvair from scratch
>> >Control surfaces and wing spars complete
>> >Making wing ribs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126750#126750
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Control cables for 601XL |
Juan,
If you look at my first post, you'll see that I did call Zenith and that
stimulated my question to the list. The person in the shop was almost
positive they were using stainless steel. Obviously, I didn't get my answer
from the designer or an engineer. Maybe that is my next step (or I can just
use galvanized to be safe).
Thanks,
Larry Winger
On 8/1/07, Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> check with zenith but I beleieve I used GLAV 7x19 with 2000Lb strength
> versus SS7x19 with 1750 lbs strength.
> Jaun
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Larry Winger <larrywinger@gmail.com>
> >Sent: Aug 1, 2007 12:30 AM
> >To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables for 601XL
> >
> >I'm planning to purchase my cable from Aircraft Spruce, so I'm making an
> >assumption that it is aviation grade as you described. If so, any
> thoughts
> >on stainless steel in place of the specified galvanized?
> >
> >Larry Winger
> >601XL/Corvair
> >Tustin, CA
> >
> >
> >On 7/31/07, Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >
> >>
> >> use the 7x19 aviation grade. they are grease impregnated.
> >>
> >> Juan
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >From: lwinger <larrywinger@gmail.com>
> >> >Sent: Jul 31, 2007 6:29 PM
> >> >To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> >> >Subject: Zenith-List: Control cables for 601XL
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >The plans (6-B-23) say 1/8" 7x19 Galvanized control cables. The folks
> in
> >> the shop at Zenith say they are using stainless steel.
> >> >
> >> >Stainless steel makes sense to me as well. Any reason not to use it?
> >> >
> >> >--------
> >> >Larry Winger
> >> >Tustin, CA
> >> >601XL/Corvair from scratch
> >> >Control surfaces and wing spars complete
> >> >Making wing ribs
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Read this topic online here:
> >> >
> >> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126750#126750
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project |
I wonder what kind of plane your neighbour flies. I also wonder if the 601 has
a better flight record than the 737 which had the rudder control problems.
Perhaps the thing to do is get hin to try a 601 sometime... Just be prepared to
do some owork on a second plane.
Noel
--------
Noel Loveys
CDN AME Intern
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126902#126902
Message 13
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| Subject: | RE: galvanized versus stainless cables |
Some experience from the certified world - I used to own a '69 AA-1
Yankee. It came with galvanized cables that, for the rudder, ran under
some pulleys very close to the floor. After about *30* years in
service, some aircraft that lived in corrosive environments (near the
ocean) began to have problems with that cable breaking due to invisible
corrosion weakening internal strands. The solution was to both use
larger diameter pulleys and to replace the cables with stainless.
All that being said, I imagine that the fully suspended cables in the
601XL ought to last nearly forever, even in galvanized. If you want to
put in a "replace every 30 years" note in your maintenance directions...
;)
FWIW,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project |
I'll agree with being prepared to work on the plane afterwards. I used to
have a Buccaneer IIB amphib and the two times I let "experienced" pilots fly
it were almost disasters. Both had plenty of hours but neither had ever
landed a plane that small. Never again!
Take the busy-body up for a ride and maybe even let him have the controls
but think twice before getting close to mother earth.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Float Flyr
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:30 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Neighbor's tried to "Intervene" on my project
I wonder what kind of plane your neighbour flies. I also wonder if the 601
has a better flight record than the 737 which had the rudder control
problems.
Perhaps the thing to do is get hin to try a 601 sometime... Just be prepared
to do some owork on a second plane.
Noel
--------
Noel Loveys
CDN AME Intern
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126902#126902
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Control cables for 601XL |
Larry from my standpoint ,either one is good and both are approved for
certified aircraft . With any type of care they will outlast the
airframe .My Tripacer is 48 years old ,I live 12 miles inland from the
gulf of Mexico (very corrosive) and with little care my galvanized
cables are still looking good..If you go the S.S. route use the correct
nicopress fitting ,do not use the copper .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Winger
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables for 601XL
Juan,
If you look at my first post, you'll see that I did call Zenith and
that stimulated my question to the list. The person in the shop was
almost positive they were using stainless steel. Obviously, I didn't
get my answer from the designer or an engineer. Maybe that is my next
step (or I can just use galvanized to be safe).
Thanks,
Larry Winger
On 8/1/07, Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote:
<amyvega2005@earthlink.net >
check with zenith but I beleieve I used GLAV 7x19 with 2000Lb
strength versus SS7x19 with 1750 lbs strength.
Jaun
-----Original Message-----
>From: Larry Winger < larrywinger@gmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 1, 2007 12:30 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Control cables for 601XL
>
>I'm planning to purchase my cable from Aircraft Spruce, so I'm
making an
>assumption that it is aviation grade as you described. If so, any
thoughts
>on stainless steel in place of the specified galvanized?
>
>Larry Winger
>601XL/Corvair
>Tustin, CA
>
>
>On 7/31/07, Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>>
>> use the 7x19 aviation grade. they are grease impregnated.
>>
>> Juan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: lwinger < larrywinger@gmail.com>
>> >Sent: Jul 31, 2007 6:29 PM
>> >To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> >Subject: Zenith-List: Control cables for 601XL
>> >
<larrywinger@gmail.com>
>> >
>> >The plans (6-B-23) say 1/8" 7x19 Galvanized control cables. The
folks in
>> the shop at Zenith say they are using stainless steel.
>> >
>> >Stainless steel makes sense to me as well. Any reason not to
use it?
>> >
>> >--------
>> >Larry Winger
>> >Tustin, CA
>> >601XL/Corvair from scratch
>> >Control surfaces and wing spars complete
>> >Making wing ribs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126750#126750
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 16
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| Subject: | 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump |
John,
I mounted my fuel pump on the engine side of my firewall for 3 reasons with
the direction of my tech counselor who is an AI. Mounting it on the floor
near the rudder pedals may cause a hit with the passenger's foot. I like the
thought of all high pressure hoses outside of the fuselage in case of a
leak. I am using sound deadener in the fuselage to try to make a very quiet
airplane. If the fuel pump makes any noise (I haven't heard it operate yet)
you won't be able to hear it in the cockpit. I have had a few vans in my
life with electric pumps in the tanks and I could hear those pumps while
driving. These are just personal changes and I'm sure the pump will work
fine in either place.
Joe in Oshkosh
Message 17
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| Subject: | 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump |
John,
The pump will work in either place but may be less likely to vapor lock if
inside the cabin.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Davis
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:10 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump
I finally got my Jabiru 3300 and am thinking about the fuel system. I'm
planning on using the Zenith supplied andair fuel selector and
gascolator. I'm wondering if it makes sense to keep the facet fuel pump
in the cabin or mount it to the firewall ? Zenith seems to recommend the
cabin but I note that William Winn seems to mount his fuel pumps on the
engine side of the firewall. I will also be installing a fuel flow
sensor on the firewall for my Dynon D180.
Any thoughts as to whats best ?
Thanks,
John Davis
Burnsville, NC
601XL - Jabiru 3300
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump |
List
Think fuel temperature, the fuel pump mounted inside the cockpit will deliver fuel
to the engine at approximately the temperature of the cockpit, hench not nearly
as likely to vapor lock.? If mounted inside the engine compartment the fuel
will be somewhat warmer.
I mounted mine in the cockpit near the fuel exit fitting and? on a Z shaped bracket
that lowers the noise transmitted by a rigid mount.
You would have to have a long legged passenger to ever hit it.? Just something
to think about.?? My RV6 has a rigid mount and more than enough noise, even hear
it over the O-360 without a muffler.
JS
601Xl hope to finish this year.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe <joe@kfiz.com>
Sent: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 8:02 am
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump
?
John,?
?
I mounted my fuel pump on the engine side of my firewall for 3 reasons with
the direction of my tech counselor who is an AI. Mounting it on the floor
near the rudder pedals may cause a hit with the passenger's foot. I like the
thought of all high pressure hoses outside of the fuselage in case of a
leak. I am using sound deadener in the fuselage to try to make a very quiet
airplane. If the fuel pump makes any noise (I haven't heard it operate yet)
you won't be able to hear it in the cockpit. I have had a few vans in my
life with electric pumps in the tanks and I could hear those pumps while
driving. These are just personal changes and I'm sure the pump will work
fine in either place.?
?
Joe in Oshkosh ?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Jabiru 3300 - Fuel Pump |
It hasn't been mentioned but in the most recent WW installation manual the fuel
pumps aren't just mounted on the engine side of the firewall. They are inside
a vented box.
I intend to also add some heat shielding as well.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126950#126950
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps701 Takeoff w flaps |
Jabiru pacific (west coast) doesn't offer the cowl yet, I saw the
fiberglass model offered by JabiruUSA in Florida .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: main gear rubber cushions |
Ed, I think that is about all. Those bolts are very big and strong and once tightened
down they really put the slam on the rubber. I think ZAC could come up
with something better than a piece of spit radiator hose though. Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: dredmoody@cox.net
Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: main gear rubber cushions
Is there anything other than the squeeze of the bolt torque which will act to
keep the upper rubber in place?
Dred
---- Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
________________________________________________________________________
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: main gear rubber cushions |
You do realize don't you that the scratch builders would look at whatever peice
of rubber Zenith came up with and say, "I think a peice of radiator hose split
in half would work great here."
japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote:
> Ed, I think that is about all. Those bolts are very big and strong and once tightened
down they really put the slam on the rubber. I think ZAC could come up
with something better than a piece of spit radiator hose though. Bill
>
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126996#126996
Message 23
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> Just a reminder: There's a 10% discount and free
> shipping until Friday of this week from Wicks
> Aircraft.....Do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Thrust angle in an XL with a Jabiru 3300 |
I called the Zenith factory about my nose-low engine and spoke with Caleb.
He said that the 4 degree down-angle is just the engine sagging on the
rubber mounts and not to worry about it. Says it will go away in the air
when the engine is pulling the plane through the air. Which begs the
question - how do you measure the thrust angle in the air? I guess it will
improve but by how much? He didn't seem to think it was worth worrying
about. I wonder how much clearance I have to leave on the cowl to prevent
contact in the air.
-- Craig
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Thrust angle in an XL with a Jabiru 3300 |
Hi Craig,
My engine (3300 on a 601xl) is 3 degrees down at it fly's very nice.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thrust angle in an XL with a Jabiru 3300
>
> I called the Zenith factory about my nose-low engine and spoke with Caleb.
> He said that the 4 degree down-angle is just the engine sagging on the
> rubber mounts and not to worry about it. Says it will go away in the air
> when the engine is pulling the plane through the air. Which begs the
> question - how do you measure the thrust angle in the air? I guess it will
> improve but by how much? He didn't seem to think it was worth worrying
> about. I wonder how much clearance I have to leave on the cowl to prevent
> contact in the air.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Thrust angle in an XL with a Jabiru 3300 |
> My engine (3300 on a 601xl) is 3 degrees down and it fly's very nice.
Thanks. Who knows how much my plane will differ from others when all rigged?
I think that for a given plane the only way to prove it one way or the other
would be to test it with and without the droop. On the other hand I can't
see any reason not to conform to (or approach) the figure in the plans if
possible.
As soon as I can locate a hook scale I intend to test Caleb's theory by
providing some upward force at the hub with my engine hoist. I (and others)
are predicting the theory won't hold up. At least when new those rubber
mounts are HARD. And from what I have seen and heard most cowls don't have a
lot of clearance around the prop hub. At the same time I'll test to see how
much movement I'll need at the lower firewall mounts to take the droop out.
-- Craig
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Thrust angle in an XL with a Jabiru 3300 |
Hey Craig ,I bought a Big Game hook scale from academy sport stores for
weighting my engines .It was not expensive
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Thrust angle in an XL with a Jabiru 3300
>
>> My engine (3300 on a 601xl) is 3 degrees down and it fly's very nice.
>
> Thanks. Who knows how much my plane will differ from others when all
> rigged?
> I think that for a given plane the only way to prove it one way or the
> other
> would be to test it with and without the droop. On the other hand I can't
> see any reason not to conform to (or approach) the figure in the plans if
> possible.
>
> As soon as I can locate a hook scale I intend to test Caleb's theory by
> providing some upward force at the hub with my engine hoist. I (and
> others)
> are predicting the theory won't hold up. At least when new those rubber
> mounts are HARD. And from what I have seen and heard most cowls don't have
> a
> lot of clearance around the prop hub. At the same time I'll test to see
> how
> much movement I'll need at the lower firewall mounts to take the droop
> out.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Reaming aileron bellcrank for bushings? |
Doug,
Perhaps you have a different version of the drawings. My drawings date 12/03 don't
stack up that way at all.
The 3 aluminum parts 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/4 = .625
Then the drawing calls for .012 inches of the bushing sticking out past the aluminum..
This gives .649.. inches. THis is equal to 16.48 mm. The drawing also
says the bushing is 16.5 mm long.
This is all on drawing 6w10.
Then on drawing 6w6 it shows the brackets also 16.5 mm appart.
So the drawings call for line on line to 2 thou under depending on which drawing
to believe. In the machine shop that's called a slip fit.
I think the better assembly would be a press fit for the bushing and a slip fit
for the "sandwhich" between the brackets. (just as the drawings show) The aluminum
makes a terrible bearing. Steel bolt sliding against the bushing should
last much longer. Check any machinist handbook on this.
Dan
> I just assembled this area in a wing I've had to rebuild.
>
> The way that bushing works is that the bolt clamps the bushing solid with the
L brackets. This is obvious from the fact that the bushing is a slight bit longer
than the stackup being clamped. The bearing surface is between the blocks
on the bellcrank and the bushing. An interference fit is too tight. What you
want is the bushing to just slide into the blocks with as little slop as possible.
I would ream.
>
> The downside to making it too big, even a couple thousandths, will be sloppy
aileron control, maybe not the end of the world!
>
> Doug
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127078#127078
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps701 |
Mil,
I have 12 inches of clearance with a 64 inch prop. Block is solid, only 8
holes for bolts. Still have the same prop but considering a 62x34 Tennessee
prop. Top cowl has 6-32 screws to top nose bowl and in front of windshield.
I pull the hinge wires too. The hinge wires have a 90 deg bend in the front
which is secured with a piece of hinge under a cowl screw.
Chuck
Time: 12:13:26 PM PST US
From: "milreed" <milreed@wildblue.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Takeoff w flaps701 Takeoff w flaps
Chuck
I saw that block on your web site. I was thinking, was done for prop
clearance, since we were last discussing this subject. I guess it is a
drilled out aluminum block with lightening holes Or ? Did you get a new
prop? My 2200 arrives 9/8/07 and we will pick it up in Fresno with the
FWF kit. They don't have a cowling, so I plan to make that part. I see
hinges on the sides of yours, do you just pull the rod out to take it
off? Oil door ?? I will make it like yours so send full set of plans (
just kidding). Mucho preguntas!
Mil
Message 30
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| Subject: | South African Builders |
Hello All.
Anybody recall nmaes amnd contact details of South African Zenith builders
at all?
Thanks in advance
Do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | South African Builders |
Howzit,
You might want to join the avcom.co.za forum, there are a few Zenith
builders prowling around there.
There was also a chap who posted some stunning pics of his white ZS- Zenith
flying along the coast but I cannot remember who it was, you might want to
search the Matronics Forum.
I'm a future builder, 100% South African but living in Europe so I am not
much help!
Mark
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
martyn@flight.co.za
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 6:55 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: South African Builders
Hello All.
Anybody recall nmaes amnd contact details of South African Zenith builders
at all?
Thanks in advance
Do not archive
Message 32
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Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Zenith-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Zenith-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Zenith-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
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*** File and Photo Share ***
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With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
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!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
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Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
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Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
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Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
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- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
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terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
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space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
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quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
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- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Ch-701 and Jabiru Engine Choices |
Its correct that looking outside the envelope needs to be done cautiously,
there are several 701 flying with the 3300.
I think the main issue would be cooling, as with my 701 / 2200 its OK but adding
50% more heat and increasing the climb angle may prove more troublesome.
The 3300 is only likely to deliver the same thrust as a 912S and I'm sure that
won't present any problems, due to the small prop and direct drive. If the cost
is the same, I would use the 912. For my aircraft, the 2200 worked out $8,000
or so less than a 912UL to install, and I wanted the simplicity more than the
higher climb rate.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127100#127100
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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