Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:32 AM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (C Smith)
2. 01:34 AM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (C Smith)
3. 04:17 AM - 601 XL ride (Frank Derfler)
4. 04:48 AM - Re: finally plugged in (Jason Bogli)
5. 04:59 AM - Cooling the cockpit (robert stone)
6. 07:29 AM - Re: Cooling the cockpit ()
7. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
8. 10:18 AM - Re: Corvair engines (Greg Kendall)
9. 10:39 AM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditione (T. Graziano)
10. 11:32 AM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (ashontz)
11. 11:35 AM - Canopy frames (wade jones)
12. 11:45 AM - Re: finally plugged in (Juan Vega)
13. 11:46 AM - Re: finally plugged in (Juan Vega)
14. 11:47 AM - Re: finally plugged in (Juan Vega)
15. 11:50 AM - Re: TE / peltier junction (raymondj)
16. 12:06 PM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (Gig Giacona)
17. 12:14 PM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (ashontz)
18. 12:19 PM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (ashontz)
19. 12:30 PM - Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (Joe)
20. 12:53 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (LarryMcFarland)
21. 12:56 PM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (ashontz)
22. 01:00 PM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (ashontz)
23. 01:10 PM - Diesel dudes (bob west)
24. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (C Smith)
25. 01:23 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (Matthew Mucker)
26. 01:26 PM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (ashontz)
27. 01:28 PM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (ashontz)
28. 02:13 PM - Re: Ouch ..please do not archive (ashontz)
29. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (David Downey)
30. 04:27 PM - Chat to start in a few minutes (leinad)
31. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (C Smith)
32. 04:43 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (C Smith)
33. 07:41 PM - Re: Chat to start in a few minutes (Danny Offill)
34. 07:46 PM - Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (MaxNr@aol.com)
35. 08:48 PM - Leading Edge Bending ()
36. 10:46 PM - Pegastol Wings (martyn@flight.co.za)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
try http://www.ferrotec.com/technology/thermoelectric/
remember that from any intake air source that you reduce in temperature,
there will be the water condensing. You will need to find a way to keep it
from the TE wafer itself, and provide a drainage path from your cooling heat
sink.
CS
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of raymondj
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Greetings Mr. Smith,
I'm toying with the idea of cooling enough air to stick a tube into the
front of my shirt to provide a little cooling, say 15 deg F. below ambient.
Can you recommend any sources of information for the fundamentals of TE
utilization.
Thanks,
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
You mean Freon? you're joking here, yes?
CS
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeyoung65@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
In a message dated 8/12/2007 9:33:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pilot4profit@sbcglobal.net writes:
conditioners used to cool electrical cabinets, (might be able to find them
in electrical salvage/auctions) and
Why not just use a 25 pound can of feron in place of the motor and
compressor. You then only need a heat exchanger in the cabin. Jerry of GA
AOL.com.
Message 3
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Lynn -- I keep my AMD-made 601XL in Marathon, in the Florida Keys. Yes,
that's a few hundred miles from Frostproof, but everybody needs the Keys
experience. I'd be happy to give you a ride.
--
Frank Derfler
-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or
(blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com
- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM
-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at
www.KEYSBOATER.com
-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: finally plugged in |
HI Juan:
Nice panel. What material is your panel made from. Any tips for creating
the professioanl look.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:56 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
> finally pluggged the panel in an finish the inside.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11:03 AM
Message 5
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| Subject: | Cooling the cockpit |
Members,
When I first got my Zodiac601XL I had a real problem with heat in
the cockpit and found that most of it was coming from around the two
steering rods where they go through the firewall. I don't understand
why the designer made the slots so long because the rods have very
little up and down movement during use. I glued velcro on the firewall
on each side of the rods and used leather cut as per the drawing to
close the holes. I also bought two plastic vents from Aircraft Spruce
and installed them in the forward lower part of the canopy and this
solved my heat problem.
Tracy Stone
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling the cockpit |
I bought a couple of rubber shift stick boots out of J.C.Whitney online and will
stuff them with fiberglass to act as fireproof insulation. I made a mounting
frame for them out of 6061-T6 .025 which is rivetted to the firewall. I bit the
bullet and bought sound and temperature insulation material from AS and installed
that stuff behind the firewall and on the front side walls and cabin floor.
Added about 3.5 pounds but I figured it was worth it..... we'll see when
it flies.
Dred
---- robert stone <rstone4@hot.rr.com> wrote:
> Members,
> When I first got my Zodiac601XL I had a real problem with heat in the cockpit
and found that most of it was coming from around the two steering rods where
they go through the firewall. I don't understand why the designer made the
slots so long because the rods have very little up and down movement during
use. I glued velcro on the firewall on each side of the rods and used leather
cut as per the drawing to close the holes. I also bought two plastic vents
from Aircraft Spruce and installed them in the forward lower part of the canopy
and this solved my heat problem.
>
> Tracy Stone
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
Yes -No, it was do in an aircraft in Houston,TX. No cheap, but it worked.
Not sure if the Green people would approve - BUT Jerry of Ga
Do not archive
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: Corvair engines |
Patrick,
You can bring your crank in to any decent auto machine shop and have them test
the surface for hardening. Just one drop of a special chemical immediately give
you results no guessing. Doesn't give you the depth of the hardening but confirms
that it was heat treated. Amazing that no one seems to be aware of this.
But I guess WW did not say it so the lot of his apologists think its apostasy
to investigate this on their own.
After seeing all the emotional posts its pretty clear that Im staying away from
the whole corvair industry. I got so mayn private messages from folks who had
terrible experience with Wynne that the list almost looks like his apostles
are Taliban working at intimidating anyone who disagrees with them.
I've decided against the Corvair engine with all this bickering but I definitely
would use the Venturay set up that uses a Lycoming hub for the starter and alternator
and that lets you safety-wire the prop bolts. AIrcraft-quality and
proven . WW may have a lot of experience but seems bound to outdated automotive
ideas.
BTW those who think that a homebuilder is incapable of making his own parts should
take up another hobby. If everything you do needs the blessing of WW, then
your safest bet is to stay on the ground. I say go ahead and experiment, thats
why its called EXPERIMENTAL aviation. Fear-mongering about the risk of dying
if you make things yourself is just ignorant since most of us have built the
most important part ourselves -- the airframe, NOT the engine.
Greg
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditione |
Just a couple of comments on replies to the below message.
1. The unit is not a "swamp" cooler, which works well in hot dry
weather, such as Arizona/Nevada in the Summer or in SoCal with a Santa
Anna.. It does have an ON/OFF mist switch which would work to exchange
the heat of evaporation (like the swamp coolers) but in humid areas such
as here in Tennessee the mist setting is worthless and would just mist
the melted water into the air via the fan and get things wet.. The heat
exchange from the melting ice does though work, but again, it only has
enough capacity for about an hour or less of cooling effort. It does
have capacity to get you to a higher cooler altitude.
2. It does not appear to add to the humidity in the cockpit. Warm cool
air passing over the ice would have (some of) its water condensed by the
cold ice. If you believe this not to be the case or did not want
additional water available to possibly add to the cockpit humidity when
the ice is melted, then you could use self contained "Ice packs" (which
when warmed up could only add the water to the air that was removed
previously).
I have used it twice now. The unit will definitely not freeze you out of
the cockpit, but does make ground and low level ops a little more
tolerable, for a while, in very hot weather.
Max Energy consumption of the unit, per the box, is 1.1 Amp.
For $49.00 I believe it to be worth it's price - BUT - just my opinion.
VMC and CAVU to all,
Tony Graziano
----- Original Message -----
From: T. Graziano
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
It has been really HOT here in NW Tennessee for the past few weeks
(high 90ies low 100s) and will also be hot next week. When I flew a few
days ago I came back soaked in sweat, a lot more than usual. Today I
had promised a flight to father of a friend of mine for his 93rd
birthday.
Last night at Wal-Mart, I saw a portable "Cool Box" Personal Air
Conditioner for $49. It was similar in concept to the ones being sold
for about $500 in that you put in ice and it has a fan blowing air over
the ice. It is not as big as the expensive ones. It also has a "mist"
setting (which would probably be great in desert dry hot air). It can
be run from 8 D cells, plugged into house current using an adaptor, or
better yet, it comes with a power plug-in for 12 V. It has two fan
settings.
Because of the age of my passenger and the relative low cost, I bought
one to see how it would perform in my XL.
It easily fits behind the seats in the cargo compartment (I bungeed it
in) and it did work to lower the temps to a more comfortable range for
me and my passenger - for about an hour (OAT was 95F). (Box says it will
lower temps 30F) You could tell when all the ice had melted from the
temp/sweat increase inside the XL. There was no apparent RFI from the
fan.
The box the unit came in has a net address of WWW.o2-cool.com, .
Down side (besides only being good for about an hour) is that there
was a lot of condensate/water on the outside of the unit which did
"moisturize" my cargo carpet. I will glue on some insulation to the
outside of the unit.
For those still building, I had Installed a power plug behind the
seat backs and also one up front near the consol. (Usually have the one
behind the seat backs reserved for my portable Nav/Com.) I also
installed structural pick-ups for bungees etc in my cargo compartment.
Tony Graziano
601XL/Jab3300; N493TG; 271 hours
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
Be interesting to see what's going on in a 12 volt cooler. http://www.compactappliance.com/xq/JSP.detailmain/Koolatron_Compact_18_Quart_12_Volt_Cooler/itemID.846/itemType.PRODUCT/iMainCat.28/iSubCat.62/iProductID.846/qx/shopping/product/P20.htm
Wonder if there's some way to use the internals on one (or two, or three) to make
an air conditioner for a 601.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128970#128970
Message 11
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Thanks ,Larry ,Ed & Paul for your helpful photos .DO NOT ARCHIVE
Wade
Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: finally plugged in |
get your panel powder coated, and make a sub panel. it is easier to pull instruments
out, and the powder coating is in various textures and is bullet proof,
will not chip unless it is intentional.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jason Bogli <jboglilaw@cox.net>
>Sent: Aug 13, 2007 7:47 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
>
>
>HI Juan:
>
>Nice panel. What material is your panel made from. Any tips for creating
>the professioanl look.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>To: "Zodiac Forum" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:56 PM
>Subject: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
>
>
>> finally pluggged the panel in an finish the inside.
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>11:03 AM
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: finally plugged in |
sounds cool to me, I appreciate the possitive feed back. Send me a copy of you'alls
EAA newletter.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Hulland <marinegunner@gmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 13, 2007 12:08 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
>
>Juan,
>Very nice 601 panel. I may print it in the local EAA newsletter for all the
>Zenith builders we have in our chapter - 8 or 9 I think. Mine is done and
>about to fly, but will never be as great as yours is.
>--
>Semper Fi,
>Steven R. Hulland
>CH 600 Taildragger
>Amado, AZ
>
>This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
>prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus
>free email and attachments.
Message 14
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| Subject: | finally plugged in |
thanx Mark.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: ZodieRocket <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>Sent: Aug 12, 2007 11:41 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
>
>
>Juan, nice common sense layout, this should server your well and with
>pride.
>
>Mark Townsend
>Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
>president@can-zacaviation.com
>www.can-zacaviation.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan Vega
>Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:57 PM
>To: Zodiac Forum
>Subject: Zenith-List: finally plugged in
>
>finally pluggged the panel in an finish the inside.
>
>8/12/2007 11:03 AM
>
>
>
>8/12/2007 11:03 AM
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: TE / peltier junction |
Thanks for the tips.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
----- Original Message -----
From: C Smith
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 3:31 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
try http://www.ferrotec.com/technology/thermoelectric/
remember that from any intake air source that you reduce in
temperature, there will be the water condensing. You will need to find a
way to keep it from the TE wafer itself, and provide a drainage path
from your cooling heat sink.
CS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of raymondj
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:09 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Greetings Mr. Smith,
I'm toying with the idea of cooling enough air to stick a tube
into the front of my shirt to provide a little cooling, say 15 deg F.
below ambient. Can you recommend any sources of information for the
fundamentals of TE utilization.
Thanks,
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst"
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
You do realize that the area between the seats of a dual stick 601 isn't emtpy
right? Every thing that is in the single stick is still there minus the Y-stick.
That aside these things weigh a ton. My wife saw the ones that were in last months
Aviation Consumer and thought them a great idea until I explained how many
fewer shoes she'd get to carry if we had it on board.
ashontz wrote:
>
> Looky here. Duct the heat exchanger out the bottom of the plane, fit a fan in
it and a couple of duct holes and fit this badboy between the seats on a dual
stick 601xl and you have an armrest and an air conditioner. $45, pretty sweet.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vector-VEC245-Portable-Super-Travel-Cooler-Warmer-17-LT_W0QQitemZ200140009402QQihZ010QQcategoryZ73335QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128979#128979
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
Pull out the guts and make a new box for it. You're only interested in the cooling
parts anyway, not the box itself. How much does it weigh? 15 pounds. That's
not too bad for a mini refrigerator. Besides, it would mount right at the CG.
I think it's a pretty cool idea, no pun intended. May actually work well. Bet
there'd be a market for a 1000BTU A/C unit for small planes that didn't cost
a fortune and only hooked into the electrical harness instead of a belt system
that connected to the flywheel on the engine. I can think of several ways to
make one that would cost about $50 in parts.
Gig Giacona wrote:
> You do realize that the area between the seats of a dual stick 601 isn't emtpy
right? Every thing that is in the single stick is still there minus the Y-stick.
>
> That aside these things weigh a ton. My wife saw the ones that were in last months
Aviation Consumer and thought them a great idea until I explained how many
fewer shoes she'd get to carry if we had it on board.
>
>
> ashontz wrote:
> >
> > Looky here. Duct the heat exchanger out the bottom of the plane, fit a fan
in it and a couple of duct holes and fit this badboy between the seats on a dual
stick 601xl and you have an armrest and an air conditioner. $45, pretty sweet.
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/Vector-VEC245-Portable-Super-Travel-Cooler-Warmer-17-LT_W0QQitemZ200140009402QQihZ010QQcategoryZ73335QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128985#128985
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
http://www.flightlineac.com/vans_aircraft_kits
$6,000, you gotta be kidding me. This is nothing more than a retro-fitted A/C system
out of junkyard for $100 with certain key components remade out of the aluminum.
Looks just like the A/C parts for my 1985 Nissan pickup.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128988#128988
Message 19
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| Subject: | Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
Guys,
I like these posts about an air conditioned 601! Most of us up here in
Wisconsin wouldn't need this, but for the folks down south, I can see where
this would be useful! I am building my 601 with the 6 cyl Jab and no vacuum
pump with lightweight instruments. If a guy could put together an air
conditioning system that weighed in under 20 LBS, why not!
At the Oshkosh convention I went to the John Deere booth and looked at some
small tractors with enclosed cabins and noticed they were air conditioned. I
checked under the hood and found a very small compressor, dryer, condenser,
and many other very small parts in comparison to the ones found in the
automobile industry. How cool is that!
The air conditioner in your car is way overbuilt and way more powerfull than
needed because they are designed to rapidly cool the car for instant relief!
If you could scale down the system with smaller parts, lighter weight fans,
and safety changes such as clutch disengagement with 80% or more throttle so
it would be disconnected for takeoff and climb, you might have something for
a homebuilt airplane.
Hot rod magazines and parts catalogs sell aftermarket air conditioning units
with the fan box, firewall fittings, etc. All you would have to do is design
an attachment for a pully or direct drive for the back of the Jabaru where
the air pump is located!
When I was building my PT-2, Steve Wittman would come over in the evenings
and inspect my work. One night he said to me, "do you know how much weight
that seat upholstery adds to the airplane" He built his seats simmilar to
lawn chair webbing. I plan on keeping my 601 forever, and I don't mind a
little extra weight to be comfortable. Lots of upholstery, sound deading
insulation, radios, etc. 20 LBS of air conditioning may raise a few
eyebrows, but I would do it!
I just watched a Modern Marvels show on TV about sticky stuff! They showed a
product by 3M that was a foam based tape. They had 2 aluminum panels, one
riveted, and one taped and riveted. They hit it with a bowling ball until it
completely failed. The taped panel was 20 times stronger than the untaped
panel! The PT-2 airplane kit used this tape to bond the ribs to the skin,
then pop rivets were used. I made a mistake and had to remove one of the
ribs. It took all night with laquer thinner and a utility knife blade to
remove it. The tape was 2 faced and very thin. It's used in the automotive
industry to apply chrome strips. The TV show showed them using it in
building construction! If CH reads these posts, I sure would like to get his
reaction on using this tape for the wings on a 601.
Joe in Oshkosh
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
Andy,
I'd not recommend a 12-V Cooler for anything like the cockpit of a 601.
The simple plate area and fan are dependent upon a small area that
recirculates air for a period of about 12 -24 hours to do any serious
cooling. The mix of heat in a 601 would absorb the cool air so quickly
that it'd be like putting a bag of frozen Popsicles in the plane. Once
melted, you'd have never noticed a difference, even on a 80-degree day.
The materials are very light, as is the typical performance output of a
12-V cooler.
You'd be better off drinking lots of ice water just before a flight.{;<)
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
ashontz wrote:
>
> Be interesting to see what's going on in a 12 volt cooler. http://www.compactappliance.com/xq/JSP.detailmain/Koolatron_Compact_18_Quart_12_Volt_Cooler/itemID.846/itemType.PRODUCT/iMainCat.28/iSubCat.62/iProductID.846/qx/shopping/product/P20.htm
>
> Wonder if there's some way to use the internals on one (or two, or three) to
make an air conditioner for a 601.
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
joe(at)kfiz.com wrote:
> At the Oshkosh convention I went to the John Deere booth and looked at some
> small tractors with enclosed cabins and noticed they were air conditioned. I
> checked under the hood and found a very small compressor, dryer, condenser,
> and many other very small parts in comparison to the ones found in the
> automobile industry. How cool is that!
>
Cool idea. I hadn't thought of them. Yeah, car A/Cs are overkill. I wouldn't be
surprised if a small John Deer could be run off a 12-volt motor instead of coupled
directly to the engine via a pulley.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128999#128999
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
Maybe, maybe not. The John Deer A/C sounds more like it's suited for a small plane.
I'd say the conditions are similar, out in the hot sun in a big open bubble
and apparently it works fine on a tractor.
larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote:
> Andy,
> I'd not recommend a 12-V Cooler for anything like the cockpit of a 601.
> The simple plate area and fan are dependent upon a small area that
> recirculates air for a period of about 12 -24 hours to do any serious
> cooling. The mix of heat in a 601 would absorb the cool air so quickly
> that it'd be like putting a bag of frozen Popsicles in the plane. Once
> melted, you'd have never noticed a difference, even on a 80-degree day.
> The materials are very light, as is the typical performance output of a
> 12-V cooler.
> You'd be better off drinking lots of ice water just before a flight.{;
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129000#129000
Message 23
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Mark,
Called Vulcan (now Raptor something), and spoke to a person named Jim. He said
if they have the 40 hrs. flown off by the end of September, they would fly to
Zenith for their annual fly-in. Is the 195 # total installed weight going to
be too heavy for the 701 ??
Bob West
do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
Well, there is a really really big problem, you see the venting of CFCs,
HCFCs and HFCs into the atmosphere, either intentionally or inadvertently in
quantities other than that from disconnecting a hose from an evacuation pump
or manifold gauge is prohibited by federal law, titles 608, 609 of the EPA
(Federal Clean air act/Montreal and Kyoto protocols). Fine minimum $20,000
per discharge. The EPA offers a $10,000 reward for tips on violators. You
don't happen to have the N number handy do you???? Be nice to have uncle Sam
finance my CH640......
Also, license is required to legally purchase refrigerants in US. And the
price of refrigerants these days??? Why waste all of that refrigerant, when
all that's needed is a pound and a half or so for a closed system?
Legalities aside, not a very economical option, and indeed quite risky, and
terrible for the environment.
Now, a legal form of lost refrigerant system would be a dry ice (or
pressurized CO2) type of cooler, used by refrigerated trucks and rail for
decades.
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeyoung65@aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Yes -No, it was do in an aircraft in Houston,TX. No cheap, but it worked.
Not sure if the Green people would approve - BUT Jerry of Ga
Do not archive
_____
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> .
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
I doubt this is a compressor-based refrigeration unit. More likely, it uses
a Peltier junction for cooling. These things suck electricity, and create a
temperature differential across the device. You'll need a way to dump the
waste heat overboard.
You'd probably do better to get a surplus Peltier jucntion on the surplus
market. I found http://www.thsengineering.com/surplus/tec.html with a quick
search.
----- Original Message -----
From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 2:14 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
>
> Pull out the guts and make a new box for it. You're only interested in the
> cooling parts anyway, not the box itself. How much does it weigh? 15
> pounds. That's not too bad for a mini refrigerator. Besides, it would
> mount right at the CG. I think it's a p
> retty cool idea, no pun intended. May actually work well. Bet there'd be a
> market for a 1000BTU A/C unit for small planes that didn't cost a fortune
> and only hooked into the electrical harness instead of a belt system that
> connected to the flywheel on t
> he engine. I can think of several ways to make one that would cost about
> $50 in parts.
>
>
> Gig Giacona wrote:
>> You do realize that the area between the seats of a dual stick 601 isn't
>> emtpy right? Every thing that is in the single stick is still there minus
>> the Y-stick.
>>
>> That aside these things weigh a ton. My wife saw the ones that were in
>> last months Aviation Consumer and thought them a great idea until I
>> explained how many fewer shoes she'd get to carry if we had it on board.
>>
>>
>> ashontz wrote:
>> >
>> > Looky here. Duct the heat exchanger out the bottom of the plane, fit a
>> > fan in it and a couple of duct holes and fit this badboy between the
>> > seats on a dual stick 601xl and you have an armrest and an air
>> > conditioner. $45, pretty sweet.
>> >
>> > http://cgi.ebay.com/Vector-VEC245-Portable-Super-Travel-Cooler-Warmer-17-LT_W0QQitemZ200140009402QQihZ010QQcategoryZ73335QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>>
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128985#128985
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
Also, license is required to legally purchase refrigerants in US
Uh oh, the lawyer again.
Actually, I just went down to Pep Boys last month and bought some R-134A for my
old truck (right here in New Jersey, USA of all places, who'da thunk it was possible?).
Whoah, Autozone is carrying R-134A too. Holy hell!!!
http://www.autozone.com/R,NONAPP22886/store,1893/shopping/accessoryProductDetail.htm
Dag, AdvancedAuto is busted too. R134A recharge kit, WITH INSTRUCTIONS NO LESS!!!
http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/specials/coolingsystem.asp
[quote="pilot4pay"]Well, there is a really really big problem, you see the venting
of CFCs, HCFCs and HFCs into the atmosphere, either intentionally or inadvertently
in quantities other than that from disconnecting a hose from an evacuation
pump or manifold gauge is prohibited by federal law, titles 608, 609
of the EPA (Federal Clean air act/Montreal and Kyoto protocols). Fine minimum
$20,000 per discharge. The EPA offers a $10,000 reward for tips on violators.
You don't happen to have the N number handy do you???? Be nice to have uncle
Sam finance my CH640......
Also, license is required to legally purchase refrigerants in US. And the price
of refrigerants these days??? Why waste all of that refrigerant, when all
that's needed is a pound and a half or so for a closed system? Legalities aside,
not a very economical option, and indeed quite risky, and terrible for the
environment.
Now, a legal form of lost refrigerant system would be a dry ice (or pressurized
CO2) type of cooler, used by refrigerated trucks and rail for decades.
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeyoung65@aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Yes -No, it was do in an aircraft in Houston,TX. No cheap, but it worked. Not
sure if the Green people would approve - BUT Jerry of Ga
Do not archive
title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982 href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982" target=_blank>AOL.com.
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129012#129012
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
Didn't the green people push for R134A to replace R22? This is old news. Back around
1992 you couldn't get refrigerant it Pep Boys anymore. now you can go down
and buy as many cans of R134A is you like.
[quote="pilot4pay"]Well, there is a really really big problem, you see the venting
of CFCs, HCFCs and HFCs into the atmosphere, either intentionally or inadvertently
in quantities other than that from disconnecting a hose from an evacuation
pump or manifold gauge is prohibited by federal law, titles 608, 609
of the EPA (Federal Clean air act/Montreal and Kyoto protocols). Fine minimum
$20,000 per discharge. The EPA offers a $10,000 reward for tips on violators.
You don't happen to have the N number handy do you???? Be nice to have uncle
Sam finance my CH640......
Also, license is required to legally purchase refrigerants in US. And the price
of refrigerants these days??? Why waste all of that refrigerant, when all
that's needed is a pound and a half or so for a closed system? Legalities aside,
not a very economical option, and indeed quite risky, and terrible for the
environment.
Now, a legal form of lost refrigerant system would be a dry ice (or pressurized
CO2) type of cooler, used by refrigerated trucks and rail for decades.
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeyoung65@aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Yes -No, it was do in an aircraft in Houston,TX. No cheap, but it worked. Not
sure if the Green people would approve - BUT Jerry of Ga
Do not archive
title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982 href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982" target=_blank>AOL.com.
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129013#129013
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Ouch ..please do not archive |
I had a near experience like this. My clod nephews started galloping around like
a couple fools with the old joking "whoah, I'm gonna fall on it" stuff, then
they're father actually trips over a part, luckily no damage. The learning experience
was, these people can't be anywhere near anything of value. This is AFTER
I told them to be careful. Believe me, had someone destroyed something they
would have been in for a Exorcist moment.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129028#129028
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
...just make sure that the evaporation products do not dilute the breathable oxygen
mixture in the cabin...confined space limitations might make that non-feasible.
C Smith <pilot4profit@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Well, there is a really really
big problem, you see the venting of CFCs, HCFCs and HFCs into the atmosphere,
either intentionally or inadvertently in quantities other than that from disconnecting
a hose from an evacuation pump or manifold gauge is prohibited by federal
law, titles 608, 609 of the EPA (Federal Clean air act/Montreal and Kyoto
protocols). Fine minimum $20,000 per discharge. The EPA offers a $10,000 reward
for tips on violators. You don't happen to have the N number handy do you????
Be nice to have uncle Sam finance my CH640......
Also, license is required to legally purchase refrigerants in US. And the price
of refrigerants these days??? Why waste all of that refrigerant, when all that's
needed is a pound and a half or so for a closed system? Legalities aside,
not a very economical option, and indeed quite risky, and terrible for the environment.
Now, a legal form of lost refrigerant system would be a dry ice (or pressurized
CO2) type of cooler, used by refrigerated trucks and rail for decades.
---------------------------------
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeyoung65@aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Yes -No, it was do in an aircraft in Houston,TX. No cheap, but it worked. Not
sure if the Green people would approve - BUT Jerry of Ga
Do not archive
---------------------------------
title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982 href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982" target=_blank>AOL.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Message 30
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| Subject: | Chat to start in a few minutes |
Zenith Builders,
Chat will begin at 8:00 EST.. Hope to see ya there!
http://chat.iahu.ca/
Dan Dempsey
do not archive
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129058#129058
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
Uh-oh the smarty pants again.
In lieu of quoting the complete text of the act, I made a generalization.
Sooo sorry, the repair kits for automotive are the only exception, have to
be sold by a licensed dealer. See if you can buy 25 lbs of it.
I guess it's bad form on this group to try to warn someone they are
committing a serious violation, with pretty steep consequences. What's the
matter with you?
I suppose you wouldn't tell your kids drinking and driving is wrong, only if
ya get caught.
What is it with you guys, do you see it as a challenge to break the law,
endanger the environment for others. What kind of message does that tell
your kids, complying with the law is optional? You get to pick?
So go look it up your self, on the EPA website.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ashontz
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 4:26 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
Also, license is required to legally purchase refrigerants in US
Uh oh, the lawyer again.
Actually, I just went down to Pep Boys last month and bought some R-134A for
my old truck (right here in New Jersey, USA of all places, who'da thunk it
was possible?).
Whoah, Autozone is carrying R-134A too. Holy hell!!!
http://www.autozone.com/R,NONAPP22886/store,1893/shopping/accessoryProductDe
tail.htm
Dag, AdvancedAuto is busted too. R134A recharge kit, WITH INSTRUCTIONS NO
LESS!!!
http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/specials/coolingsystem.asp
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
Of course, the co2 systems have an evaporator, just like sealed systems, and
vent outboard of their containers.
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Downey
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:14 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner
...just make sure that the evaporation products do not dilute the breathable
oxygen mixture in the cabin...confined space limitations might make that
non-feasible.
C Smith <pilot4profit@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Now, a legal form of lost refrigerant system would be a dry ice (or
pressurized CO2) type of cooler, used by refrigerated trucks and rail for
decades.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Chat to start in a few minutes |
I always show too late for the chat.
Danny
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of leinad
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 6:26 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Chat to start in a few minutes
Zenith Builders,
Chat will begin at 8:00 EST.. Hope to see ya there!
http://chat.iahu.ca/
Dan Dempsey
do not archive
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129058#129058
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner |
John Deere air conditioners, huh? I'm sold. My pickup truck is nothing more
than a support system for an air conditioner. Why not a 601XL? The nearby US
Naval Air Station (Whiting Field) cools the T-34C's (air cycle I think) and some
of the helo's are freon cooled with a small Japanese auto compressor driven
by a pulley on the tail rotor drive shaft. These are the TH-57C's. Same as a
Bell 206B3, only with a huge IFR panel and autopilot. The instructors will turn
down an assigned A/C if the air con is inop and request another.
Friend of mine simplifies his altitude selection by flat out ignoring winds
aloft and climbing until the OAT read 16 deg Celsius.
Just thinking: could I replace my alternator with one of those new small ones
that mount in place of the vac pump and put a small compressor in its place?
The condenser could mount on the MLG. Draggy and heavy, but 105 heat index
aint nuthing to sneeze at.
do not archive
Bob from Pace, FL 601XL/Lyc
**************************************
Get a
sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 35
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| Subject: | Leading Edge Bending |
Thanks, guys, for the verbal and photos. I'll keep a hard copy for fut
ure reference.=0A=0APaul R=0Ado not archive
Message 36
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Hello Chaps and Chappettes,
Anybody know where I can find more information or plans about the Pegastol
wing for the CH 701 ?
Sincerely
Martyn Ward
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