---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/14/07: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:57 AM - Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 2. 05:25 AM - Re: Diesel dudes (ZodieRocket) 3. 05:33 AM - Re: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (Dave Johnson) 4. 06:29 AM - Re: Pegastol Wings (LRM) 5. 06:45 AM - Re: Radiator hose for Stratus (Bill Steer) 6. 09:58 AM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (haven) 7. 11:34 AM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (ashontz) 8. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (japhillipsga@aol.com) 9. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (japhillipsga@aol.com) 10. 12:11 PM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (ashontz) 11. 01:21 PM - My 601XL for your 701? (Mike Honer) 12. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (Michael Valentine) 13. 01:50 PM - Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (ashontz) 14. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (attorney related) (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com) 15. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (attorney related) (Michael Valentine) 16. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (attorney related) (Terry Turnquist) 17. 06:23 PM - Re: Chat to start in a few minutes (Falcon) 18. 08:23 PM - Re: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (Dave Thompson) 19. 09:41 PM - Re: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (George Swinford) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:13 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner Hi Bob: The small alternators that mount on the vacuum pump pad are just that - small - and are typically used as backup alternators. Probably big enough for an XL, but this looks like something to research. Let's take this discussion a bit further - anyone know of an air conditioner system that could be run BACKWARDS a.k.a. 'heat pump' for our cold winter months here in New England that would eliminate the heat shroud CO issue ? I think it would be just great to have something that would require a simple v-belt routing change that could convert from cooling to heating. Does such a thing exist ?? Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601XL N458XL (reserved) In a message dated 8/13/2007 9:47:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, MaxNr@aol.com writes: John Deere air conditioners, huh? I'm sold. My pickup truck is nothing more than a support system for an air conditioner. Why not a 601XL? The nearby US Naval Air Station (Whiting Field) cools the T-34C's (air cycle I think) and some of the helo's are freon cooled with a small Japanese auto compressor driven by a pulley on the tail rotor drive shaft. These are the TH-57C's. Same as a Bell 206B3, only with a huge IFR panel and autopilot. The instructors will turn down an assigned A/C if the air con is inop and request another. Friend of mine simplifies his altitude selection by flat out ignoring winds aloft and climbing until the OAT read 16 deg Celsius. Just thinking: could I replace my alternator with one of those new small ones that mount in place of the vac pump and put a small compressor in its place? The condenser could mount on the MLG. Draggy and heavy, but 105 heat index aint nuthing to sneeze at. do not archive Bob from Pace, FL 601XL/Lyc ************************l.com/memed/aolcom30tour http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:39 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Diesel dudes Bob , if they can keep the FWF weight below 200lbs then they have a true winner for the 701 airframe. However, they have suffered delays and many changes to the engine. I am keeping an eye on it. I love the idea of a Diesel motor, though I wish the price would have been more affordable, at my last conversation with them they stated that the cost will be similar with the Rotax 912S. Not overly outrageous for a well proven engine, but I still have that wait and see approach. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob west Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 4:10 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Diesel dudes Mark, Called Vulcan (now Raptor something), and spoke to a person named Jim. He said if they have the 40 hrs. flown off by the end of September, they would fly to Zenith for their annual fly-in. Is the 195 # total installed weight going to be too heavy for the 701 ?? Bob West do not archive _____ Ready for the edge of your seat? "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 8/13/2007 10:15 AM 8/13/2007 10:15 AM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:31 AM PST US From: "Dave Johnson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner This may be getting a bit 'off-topic' but you may find it worth while to investigate Stirling engines. They are 'External combustion' engines, Philips in Holland were doing a lot of work on them, I saw them demonstrated in the '60s. They even had one powering a speedboat. The thing is that they are reversible - you provide heat, the engine produces power, if you provide the power it acts as a heat pump. If you want to know more go to www.stirlingengine.com who have a lot of information and produce low-powered versions. Dave Johnson 601XL - working on wiring do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Crvsecretary@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 12:53 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner Hi Bob: The small alternators that mount on the vacuum pump pad are just that - small - and are typically used as backup alternators. Probably big enough for an XL, but this looks like something to research. Let's take this discussion a bit further - anyone know of an air conditioner system that could be run BACKWARDS a.k.a. 'heat pump' for our cold winter months here in New England that would eliminate the heat shroud CO issue ? I think it would be just great to have something that would require a simple v-belt routing change that could convert from cooling to heating. Does such a thing exist ?? Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601XL N458XL (reserved) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:43 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pegastol Wings The new owner is Raymond Miller in Alaska. You can e-mail him at moseus@gmail.com. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 12:40 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Pegastol Wings > > Hello Chaps and Chappettes, > > Anybody know where I can find more information or plans about the Pegastol > wing for the CH 701 ? > > Sincerely > Martyn Ward > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:54 AM PST US From: Bill Steer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Radiator hose for Stratus Thanks very much for the offer, Joe. I'm going to try to pick one up at my local parts store today. If that fails, I'll be in touch about yours. I'm on the verge of first engine start and am anxious to get the cooling system finished. Bill Southern Reflections wrote: > > > I've got one you want it ? I don't know what it's worth... Joe N101HD > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Steer" > To: "Zenith_list" > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 12:17 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Radiator hose for Stratus > > >> >> Does anybody happen to know either the hose number or the car it came >> from for the radiator hose supplied by Zenith in their FWF kit for >> Stratus Subaru? It's the 1" x 1 1/4" hose with about a 90-degree >> curve on one end and a z-shaped curve at the other. >> >> Thanks very much. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner From: "haven" John Deere parts are almost as expensive as aviation parts. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129189#129189 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:34:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner From: "ashontz" You're lawyering comes through loud and clear on here. Actually, what the problem is with people here is that they're here because friggin' lawyers have destroyed general aviation. We already went through this. I guy I know who's a federal judge (and obviously a lawyer) as well as a pilot and is ashamed of his own profession because of this and openly admits lawyers have in fact ruined general aviation. You're general demeanor is rather unfit for such a forum. A lawyer hanging around a homebuilt community is kind of like a feminist crashing the local Father's Rights organization and 'hanging out.' pilot4pay wrote: > Uh-oh the smarty pants again. > In lieu of quoting the complete text of the act, I made a generalization. > Sooo sorry, the repair kits for automotive are the only exception, have to > be sold by a licensed dealer. See if you can buy 25 lbs of it. > I guess it's bad form on this group to try to warn someone they are > committing a serious violation, with pretty steep consequences. What's the > matter with you? > I suppose you wouldn't tell your kids drinking and driving is wrong, only if > ya get caught. > What is it with you guys, do you see it as a challenge to break the law, > endanger the environment for others. What kind of message does that tell > your kids, complying with the law is optional? You get to pick? > So go look it up your self, on the EPA website. > -- -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129196#129196 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner From: japhillipsga@aol.com Maybe you fellows ought to get married. -----Original Message----- From: ashontz Sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 2:32 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner You're lawyering comes through loud and clear on here. Actually, what the problem is with people here is that they're here because friggin' lawyers have destroyed general aviation. We already went through this. I guy I know who's a federal judge (and obviously a lawyer) as well as a pilot and is ashamed of his own profession because of this and openly admits lawyers have in fact ruined general aviation. You're general demeanor is rather unfit for such a forum. A lawyer hanging around a homebuilt community is kind of like a feminist crashing the local Father's Rights organization and 'hanging out.' pilot4pay wrote: > Uh-oh the smarty pants again. > In lieu of quoting the complete text of the act, I made a generalization. > Sooo sorry, the repair kits for automotive are the only exception, have to > be sold by a licensed dealer. See if you can buy 25 lbs of it. > I guess it's bad form on this group to try to warn someone they are > committing a serious violation, with pretty steep consequences. What's the > matter with you? > I suppose you wouldn't tell your kids drinking and driving is wrong, only if > ya get caught. > What is it with you guys, do you see it as a challenge to break the law, > endanger the environment for others. What kind of message does that tell > your kids, complying with the law is optional? You get to pick? > So go look it up your self, on the EPA website. > -- -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129196#129196 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner From: japhillipsga@aol.com Maybe you fellows ought to get married. -----Original Message----- From: ashontz Sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 2:32 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner You're lawyering comes through loud and clear on here. Actually, what the problem is with people here is that they're here because friggin' lawyers have destroyed general aviation. We already went through this. I guy I know who's a federal judge (and obviously a lawyer) as well as a pilot and is ashamed of his own profession because of this and openly admits lawyers have in fact ruined general aviation. You're general demeanor is rather unfit for such a forum. A lawyer hanging around a homebuilt community is kind of like a feminist crashing the local Father's Rights organization and 'hanging out.' pilot4pay wrote: > Uh-oh the smarty pants again. > In lieu of quoting the complete text of the act, I made a generalization. > Sooo sorry, the repair kits for automotive are the only exception, have to > be sold by a licensed dealer. See if you can buy 25 lbs of it. > I guess it's bad form on this group to try to warn someone they are > committing a serious violation, with pretty steep consequences. What's the > matter with you? > I suppose you wouldn't tell your kids drinking and driving is wrong, only if > ya get caught. > What is it with you guys, do you see it as a challenge to break the law, > endanger the environment for others. What kind of message does that tell > your kids, complying with the law is optional? You get to pick? > So go look it up your self, on the EPA website. > -- -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129196#129196 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:04 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner From: "ashontz" I am married. You mean to each other? LOL. No way in hell. Although the arguments would probably be about what you'd here around your average household. Should have head the neighbors behind me (guy and his wife) lastnight calling each other A-holes. Classic. do not archive japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote: > Maybe you fellows ought to get married. > > > -- -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129203#129203 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:29 PM PST US From: "Mike Honer" Subject: Zenith-List: My 601XL for your 701? Several years ago we moved from the airpark to this place in the country. We now have a 1200 ft. grass strip, and would like to use it. I am not confident that the 601XL is the bird for this strip, even tho it might work. Issues with 100 ft tall trees, chicken-hearted pilot, etc. The 601 is complete to fishing the canopy, built from Zenith Kit...equipped with Jabiru 3300 SN 299...Needs systems installation...i.e.,about 50% done. Is there anyone out there with the opposite situation, who might rather have a 601XL than his 701? If so, we should talk. Mike Honer, North Carolina 336-857-1151 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:29 PM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner Back off Andy. There is a large difference between lawyering that killed GA and someone pointing out that a) it is illegal to stock up on refrigerants and b) many people seem to see that as a challenge. Your comment ("you're (sic) general demeanor is rather unfit for such a forum") is complete crap and your follow-up statement is equally ignorant. From your statements I would gather that in your opinion the only people who should be part of the homebuilt community are ignorant male chauvinists that like to break the law? Michael in NH On 8/14/07, ashontz wrote: > > > You're lawyering comes through loud and clear on here. Actually, what the > problem is with people here is that they're here because friggin' lawyers > have destroyed general aviation. We already went through this. I > guy I know who's a federal judge (and obviously a lawyer) as well as a > pilot and is ashamed of his own profession because of this and openly admits > lawyers have in fact ruined general aviation. You're general demeanor is > rather unfit for such a forum. A lawyer hanging around a homebuilt community > is kind of like a feminist crashing the local Father's Rights organization > and 'hanging out.' > > > pilot4pay wrote: > > Uh-oh the smarty pants again. > > In lieu of quoting the complete text of the act, I made a > generalization. > > Sooo sorry, the repair kits for automotive are the only exception, have > to > > be sold by a licensed dealer. See if you can buy 25 lbs of it. > > I guess it's bad form on this group to try to warn someone they are > > committing a serious violation, with pretty steep consequences. What's > the > > matter with you? > > I suppose you wouldn't tell your kids drinking and driving is wrong, > only if > > ya get caught. > > What is it with you guys, do you see it as a challenge to break the law, > > endanger the environment for others. What kind of message does that tell > > your kids, complying with the law is optional? You get to pick? > > So go look it up your self, on the EPA website. > > -- > > > -------- > Andy Shontz > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129196#129196 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:28 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner From: "ashontz" I'm not refering to the this about Freon. Obviously that's illegal. I'm refering to some of his other posts that refer to legalities. Who said anything about the homebuilt community being nothing more than male chauvenists. What are you talking about, the reference to the feminist at the Father's Rights org? Uh, that was just an example. Never said anything about women not being welcome in the homebuilt community, I just mentioned feminists at a father's right's organization would probably be a bit awkward, kind of the same awkwardness of a lawyer at hanging around with guys that he helped make their lives bit rough. I guess you can figure out I'm not big on lawyers. I don't see where they fit in with the grand scheme of things, and I'd venture to guess most actually productive people don't think highly of laywers either. Why, because laywers hang around were there's money to be made (which is usually generated by productive people) and then redistributed by lawyers. I know, the popular myth lawyers want to uphold is that they do nothing of the sort. BS. Just ask a doctor who pays exhorbitant insurance fees. If we had loser pays laws in this country you'd see a hell of a lot less parasitic lawyers because they're be no money in it. Imagine prosecuting a bogus case for $100,000, simultaneously the shark on the other side is racking up $100,000 in fees himself, and then lose in court. Now the lawyer just spend 200 hours for nothing and his bogus client has to pay the defendent and his lawyer leaving very little if anything for the plaintiff's shark. That'd be a nice legal system if you ask me... reducing lawyers to the paperwork clerks they are instead of revered BSers. do not archive [quote="Michael Valentine"]Back off Andy. There is a large difference between lawyering that killed GA and someone pointing out that a) it is illegal to stock up on refrigerants and b) many people seem to see that as a challenge. Your comment ("you're (sic) general demeanor is rather unfit for such a forum") is complete crap and your follow-up statement is equally ignorant. From your statements I would gather that in your opinion the only people who should be part of the homebuilt community are ignorant male chauvinists that like to break the law? Michael in NH You're lawyering comes through loud and clear on here. Actually, what the problem is with people here is that they're here because friggin' lawyers have destroyed general aviation. We already went through this. I guy I know who's a federal judge (and obviously a lawyer) as well as a pilot and is ashamed of his own profession because of this and openly admits lawyers have in fact ruined general aviation. You're general demeanor is rather unfit for such a forum. A lawyer hanging around a homebuilt community is kind of like a feminist crashing the local Father's Rights organization and 'hanging out.' pilot4pay wrote: > Uh-oh the smarty pants again. > In lieu of quoting the complete text of the act, I made a generalization. > Sooo sorry, the repair kits for automotive are the only exception, have to > be sold by a licensed dealer. See if you can buy 25 lbs of it. > I guess it's bad form on this group to try to warn someone they are > committing a serious violation, with pretty steep consequences. What's the > matter with you? > I suppose you wouldn't tell your kids drinking and driving is wrong, only if > ya get caught. > What is it with you guys, do you see it as a challenge to break the law, > > endanger the environment for others. What kind of message does that tell > > your kids, complying with the law is optional? You get to pick? > So go look it up your self, on the EPA website. > -- > > -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz (http://www.mykitlog.com/ashontz) Read this topic online here: > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129212#129212 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:51 PM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (attorney related) Hey Michael in NH: Not all attorney's are bad, just like not all people are bad. However, there is certainly a perception that they mostly look for the big money. I had two shirttail relatives who quit the profession because of the actual and perceived injustice in the system. (It is all run by attorneys) In addition, my father refused to become an attorney (when given the chance) because when he asked how they made a living he was told that all he had to do was find one well to do client. Lynn in Frostproof wishing for a 601 XL http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:21 PM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (attorney related) Just to be clear here...! I don't have much of a problem with people disliking attorneys. I dislike many of them also and think that ridiculous litigation has tragically stifled GA. My problem was with Andy's post equating pilot4pay's comments about following some environmental laws regarding refrigerants with GA killing litigation. (I don't remember everyone's posts, so I don't know pilot4pay's history regarding legal comments.) I thought Andy's comments were an unnecessary attack on pilot4pay and came off sounding like the homebuilding community was some exclusive club that only people like him could be part of. I thought his response to my post was quite restrained, which I appreciate. Case closed! Michael in NH do not archive On 8/14/07, IFLYSMODEL@aol.com wrote: > > Hey Michael in NH: Not all attorney's are bad, just like not all people > are bad. However, there is certainly a perception that they mostly look for > the big money. I had two shirttail relatives who quit the profession because > of the actual and perceived injustice in the system. (It is all run by > attorneys) In addition, my father refused to become an attorney (when given > the chance) because when he asked how they made a living he was told that > all he had to do was find one well to do client. > Lynn in Frostproof wishing for a 601 XL > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:15 PM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner (attorney related) Hey guys, enough already! This list is fun and very educational until one of us stays out in the heat to long! I was once a meatcutter and some managers actually ground up beef hearts and spleens into the hamburger for extra profit, proof that some in all professions can be motivated by greed! Just look at the televangelists! Go take a cold shower and have a beer.! Remember, "Don't worry, nothing will be alright!" Terry Turnquist IFLYSMODEL@aol.com wrote: Hey Michael in NH: Not all attorney's are bad, just like not all people are bad. However, there is certainly a perception that they mostly look for the big money. I had two shirttail relatives who quit the profession because of the actual and perceived injustice in the system. (It is all run by attorneys) In addition, my father refused to become an attorney (when given the chance) because when he asked how they made a living he was told that all he had to do was find one well to do client. Lynn in Frostproof wishing for a 601 XL --------------------------------- AOL.com. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Chat to start in a few minutes From: "Falcon" I do, too. That doesn't stop me. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129245#129245 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:15 PM PST US From: "Dave Thompson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner Several years ago I wanted to upgrade the ice box in my tent trailer. I'm a cheap Ba*@#d so went to my local RV junk yard and purchased a 12V / 120V / LP gas fridge that had been crushed but still worked. I removed the guts and installed it behind my ice box. It works very well on 12V, even makes ice. It takes longer to cool on 12V than 120V or gas but it still works. It draws about 2 to 3 amps on 12V. It has an ammonia cooling unit. I don't know what it weighs but I think it didn't weigh too much, not nearly as much as my tiny 5000 BTU window air conditioner in my shop office. It seems that one could be adapted to our use. I DO wonder about the ammonia if it gets a leak. I don't know about those things. Below is a link that explains how they work. It discusses gas Refrigerators but my 12V Refrigerator works the same way with a 12V heater. http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=refrigerator.htm &url=http://www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html Here's a link to a portable version. It's not cheap but it's an idea. http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-refrigerators/portable-refrigerator-mr ft40.htm Possible positives: Size (the parts that I used only took up about a 12" X 12" X 6" space, plus the 4" X 2" X 8" by condenser) No moving parts Simple Low amperage draw Possible drawbacks: Weight (of course) Ammonia leakage (Is it toxic?) Speed of cooling (my 3.5 cu. ft. fridge takes about a half an hour to be cold) Size (could it be installed below the baggage shelf or under the seat?) I may be way off base with this idea. You guys told me that I was with the Thermoelectric Module. I'm just throwing out ideas at this point. Dave Thompson ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:51 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner I've wondered about this, remembering that 50 some years ago I saw refrigerators that used a small gas flame as an energy source. We throw away a lot of heat in exhaust gases, so that could be an energy source. I Googled "Servel", the manufacturer of such refrigerators and learned that the refrigerant flow depends entirely on gravity. I wonder if turbulence would disrupt the refrigerant circulation?. Anyone done any research on concept? George ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Thompson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:23 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Zodiac 601XL Air Conditioner Several years ago I wanted to upgrade the ice box in my tent trailer. I'm a cheap Ba*@#d so went to my local RV junk yard and purchased a 12V / 120V / LP gas fridge that had been crushed but still worked. I removed the guts and installed it behind my ice box. It works very well on 12V, even makes ice. It takes longer to cool on 12V than 120V or gas but it still works. It draws about 2 to 3 amps on 12V. It has an ammonia cooling unit. I don't know what it weighs but I think it didn't weigh too much, not nearly as much as my tiny 5000 BTU window air conditioner in my shop office. It seems that one could be adapted to our use. I DO wonder about the ammonia if it gets a leak. I don't know about those things. Below is a link that explains how they work. It discusses gas Refrigerators but my 12V Refrigerator works the same way with a 12V heater. http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=refrigerator.htm&url=h ttp://www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html Here's a link to a portable version. It's not cheap but it's an idea. http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-refrigerators/portable-refrigerator -mrft40.htm Possible positives: Size (the parts that I used only took up about a 12" X 12" X 6" space, plus the 4" X 2" X 8" by condenser) No moving parts Simple Low amperage draw Possible drawbacks: Weight (of course) Ammonia leakage (Is it toxic?) Speed of cooling (my 3.5 cu. ft. fridge takes about a half an hour to be cold) Size (could it be installed below the baggage shelf or under the seat?) I may be way off base with this idea. You guys told me that I was with the Thermoelectric Module. I'm just throwing out ideas at this point. Dave Thompson ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/13/2007 10:15 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.