Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:26 AM - T throttle design (chris Sinfield)
2. 05:42 AM - Re: T throttle design (leinad)
3. 05:56 AM - Re: T throttle design (chris Sinfield)
4. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: T throttle design (Robin Bellach)
5. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: T throttle design (Randy Stout)
6. 08:23 AM - early 701 to 1025 gross (Tom Flanagan)
7. 11:11 AM - Canopy flashing (wade jones)
8. 11:25 AM - Re: early 701 to 1025 gross (ZodieRocket)
9. 11:27 AM - Re: early 701 to 1025 gross (ronlee)
10. 11:43 AM - Re: Canopy flashing (LarryMcFarland)
11. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: T throttle design (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 01:14 PM - Increase in gross weight for old 701 (Mark Sherman)
13. 01:33 PM - Re: Canopy flashing (Gary Ray)
14. 02:55 PM - Re: Increase in gross weight for old 701 (Paul Mulwitz)
15. 03:20 PM - Re: Canopy flashing (Juan Vega)
16. 05:18 PM - Scratch Built 601 HD kit for sale, absolutly has to go. (keith.maloney@comcast.net)
17. 08:08 PM - Re: Canopy flashing (Gig Giacona)
18. 09:40 PM - Polishing 6061: print shadow? (messydeer)
19. 09:47 PM - Sc (Alan Lovchik)
20. 10:49 PM - Re: Increase in gross weight for old 701 (Mark Sherman)
21. 11:33 PM - 601 XL layout sheets question (Jugle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | T throttle design |
OK Gang
I see lots of 601's and XL's with the T throttle set up due to the yoke. Where
is this throttle design found as its not in my XL plans ?? From photos is there
a friction anywhere? is it all located on the extrusion on ther inside of the
engine cowl? [Question] [Question]
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129787#129787
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| Subject: | Re: T throttle design |
Chris,
My XL plans show the entire assembly with detalis of parts with a friction lock.
It's drawing 6-E-5. dated 06/03 titled DUAL THROTTLE CHOKE.
Dan
> I see lots of 601's and XL's with the T throttle set up due to the yoke. Where
is this throttle design found as its not in my XL plans ?? From photos is there
a friction anywhere? is it all located on the extrusion on ther inside of
the engine cowl?
> Chris
>
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129793#129793
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| Subject: | Re: T throttle design |
Thats funny
I have the latest XL plans march 06 and I have no drawings of that. On the drawing
list I have Powerplant and then 4 engine mounts
I have no 6-E??Engine section Its not an option or a separately available??
What gives???
I have the normal XL kit SN 6337 Am I missing drawings? Can someone scan in the
drawing list so I have some info to ask the factory for ??
thanks
Chris [Question]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129797#129797
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| Subject: | Re: T throttle design |
Mine too.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "leinad" <leinad@hughes.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 7:41 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: T throttle design
>
> Chris,
> My XL plans show the entire assembly with detalis of parts with a
> friction lock. It's drawing 6-E-5. dated 06/03 titled DUAL THROTTLE
> CHOKE.
> Dan
>
>
>> I see lots of 601's and XL's with the T throttle set up due to the yoke.
>> Where is this throttle design found as its not in my XL plans ?? From
>> photos is there a friction anywhere? is it all located on the extrusion
>> on ther inside of the engine cowl?
>> Chris
>>
>>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: T throttle design |
They may have taken it out because not too many people like it or you just
got shorted on your drawings. I tried it for awhile and it has a tendancy to
creep toward idle. Anyway here's the link
http://www.zenithair.com/cad/6-E-5.dwf If you don't already have it, you
will have to download a dwf viewer http://www.autodesk.com/expressviewer
Randy Stout
San Antonio TX
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
n282rs at satx.rr.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> chris Sinfield
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 6:56 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: T throttle design
>
>
> --> <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
>
> Thats funny
> I have the latest XL plans march 06 and I have no drawings of
> that. On the drawing list I have Powerplant and then 4
> engine mounts I have no 6-E??Engine section Its not an
> option or a separately available??
>
> What gives???
>
> I have the normal XL kit SN 6337 Am I missing drawings? Can
> someone scan in the drawing list so I have some info to ask
> the factory for ??
>
> thanks
> Chris [Question]
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129797#129797
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | early 701 to 1025 gross |
What modifications are required to change an earlier model to the higher
gross , or can,t this be done if the plane is already N numbered ?
Message 7
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Hello Group ,For stretching part # 6c3-5 and me not owning a stretcher
is there a neater way than the ball peen hammer for this chore .
Thanks Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
Message 8
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| Subject: | early 701 to 1025 gross |
Almost 30 changes, including remaking your spars and a good portion of
your fuselage behind the seats. It can be done , however it may be
faster and easier to build a new plane
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Zenith-List: early 701 to 1025 gross
What modifications are required to change an earlier model to the higher
gross , or can,t this be done if the plane is already N numbered ?
8/19/2007 7:27 AM
8/19/2007 7:27 AM
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: early 701 to 1025 gross |
There are many, many, many revisions deep inside the 701 structure
that can't be changed!
Sorry about that.
As far as the FAA goes I would think you could up the GW with the proper paper
work. Several older planes have had that done. Now I must say, that is only a
guess as, I don't know for sure.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129835#129835
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy flashing |
Wade,
The ball peen hammer process can be done neatly, but you have to place
the unseen side of the flashing up and the exposed side
against a smooth block of steel. Cold rolled steel is usually very
smooth. Also it is very controllable. Put a template outline
on a piece of poster board that you can work to. Then start from the
center edge working each way to get it to radius.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flashinghammered.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopycurvegap.gif
You can see the hammering on the inside, but on the exposed side, the
surface will be smooth.
Practice on a short piece to get the best technique.
good luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
wade jones wrote:
> Hello Group ,For stretching part # 6c3-5 and me not owning a stretcher
> is there a neater way than the ball peen hammer for this chore .
> Thanks Wade Jones South Texas
> 601XL plans building
> Cont. 0200
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: T throttle design |
The way this all comes out on my drawings (or lack of drawings) is
the throttle is part of the fire wall forward package rather than the
airframe design. My basic drawings don't include that feature at
all, but the FWF package I bought from UsJabiru includes a dual
throttle option.
Paul
XL fuselage
FWF still unpacked
At 05:56 AM 8/19/2007, you wrote:
>Thats funny
>I have the latest XL plans march 06 and I have no drawings of that.
>On the drawing list I have Powerplant and then 4 engine mounts
>I have no 6-E??Engine section Its not an option or a separately available??
>
>What gives???
>
>I have the normal XL kit SN 6337 Am I missing drawings? Can someone
>scan in the drawing list so I have some info to ask the factory for ??
>
>thanks
>Chris [Question]
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Increase in gross weight for old 701 |
Subject: early 701 to 1025 gross
From: Tom Flanagan (flanagan@nycap.rr.com)
What modifications are required to change an earlier model to the
higher gross , or can,t this be done if the plane is already N numbered ?
Tom.
You can change the gross weight to what ever you want. You will need to
change the load factor in your POH. I have the old kit and have made
most of the changes to the SP, but not all. What I have done is, using
Chris's calculations on the drawings, I will be using an 1100 lbs gross
weight with a load factor of +3.5 and -1.7. Rather than the +4 and -2.
This will give me the same load on the aircraft.
Mark S.
701/912ULS
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy flashing |
Wade
I also used 1/2" felt weather strip as a trim piece on top of the inner
canopy flashing which will cover any defects nicely.
It comes in pre-cut rolls for a couple dollars at the hardware store.
Gary Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: wade jones
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 2:07 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy flashing
Hello Group ,For stretching part # 6c3-5 and me not owning a stretcher
is there a neater way than the ball peen hammer for this chore .
Thanks Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
8/17/07 5:43 PM
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Increase in gross weight for old 701 |
Hi Mark,
I wonder if you are covering all the issues by merely adjusting the
load factors. It seems to me there might be other impacts to
changing the maximum gross weight besides ultimate loads. For
instance, you might change the way CG changes impact the plane's handling.
I think it might be appropriate to go through a complete phase 1
flight test program after making the gross weight change. This would
examine the entire flight envelope and characterize the behavior of
the newly limited plane.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 01:12 PM 8/19/2007, you wrote:
>You can change the gross weight to what ever you want. You will need to
>change the load factor in your POH. I have the old kit and have made
>most of the changes to the SP, but not all. What I have done is, using
>Chris's calculations on the drawings, I will be using an 1100 lbs gross
>weight with a load factor of +3.5 and -1.7. Rather than the +4 and -2.
>This will give me the same load on the aircraft.
>Mark S.
>701/912ULS
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy flashing |
a powder coat application with a ping texture will also do it well if you are uncomfortable
with the skills to hammer it. It covers mistakes well also, trust
me I know. and had plenty of them./;
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>Sent: Aug 19, 2007 2:40 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy flashing
>
>
>Wade,
>The ball peen hammer process can be done neatly, but you have to place
>the unseen side of the flashing up and the exposed side
>against a smooth block of steel. Cold rolled steel is usually very
>smooth. Also it is very controllable. Put a template outline
>on a piece of poster board that you can work to. Then start from the
>center edge working each way to get it to radius.
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flashinghammered.gif
>http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopycurvegap.gif
>You can see the hammering on the inside, but on the exposed side, the
>surface will be smooth.
>
>Practice on a short piece to get the best technique.
>
>good luck,
>
>Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>wade jones wrote:
>> Hello Group ,For stretching part # 6c3-5 and me not owning a stretcher
>> is there a neater way than the ball peen hammer for this chore .
>> Thanks Wade Jones South Texas
>> 601XL plans building
>> Cont. 0200
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Scratch Built 601 HD kit for sale, absolutly has to go. |
FOR SALE: Scratch Built factory licensed 601 HD (includes HDS license).
For pictures see: http://photoshow.comcast.net/watch/bQ6nh3Ea
I am selling this kit for best offer, that means unless the price exceeds expectations
or you pay me to deliver it, you will need to come and get it. The bottom
dollar is $1000 and I am located in Fort Collins, Colorado. I have about
$9000 dollars and hundreds of hours into this, but it has to go and it would
break my heart to salvage it. If the final price exceeds $7000.00, I will consider
delivering (lower 48 only) and setting it up for free. If the price exceeds
$8000.00 I will throw in a near new Miller Syncrowave 180D tig welder with
accessories. This kit is not something that can easily be packaged and shipped
by a third party, so this is not a reasonable option.
Partially complete 601 scratch kit. Approximately 90% of sheet metal fabrication
is complete and the quality is good. The fuselage/center section, rudder and
horizontal stabilizer have been drilled and are clecoed together. All the
wing ribs and spar for the outboard wings have been fabricated. The only assembly
that has been riveted together is the center section wing spar solid rivets
have been shot. I believe all the sheet metal, tubing and extrusion required
to finish the airframe (including wing skins) is included. This complete kit
comes with most of the rivets (Avex and solid), AN hardware, bungees, additional
tooling and enough clecos to almost build the plane without rivets . The
wheels, breaks, fiberglass parts (wing tips, stabilizer tips, light mount and
tail faring) and elevator trim servo and controls are also included. The original
factory issued plans, documentation and license number are included.
Whats not included, nothing firewall forward, canopy bubble, fuel tanks (although
the fuel pumps, capacitive level sensors and duel fuel gage is included) or
electronics. The welded parts included in this kit (landing gear, rudder pedals
and engine mounts) are for mock-up purposes only and I make no claims that
they are flight worthy, mainly because I am not a certified or experienced welder.
The kit quality is good and all hand built by myself. I have four year experience
in the US Air Force as a Airframe Structural Repair specialist (that means
I have shot about a gazilion rivets and manufactured thousands of Air Frame
parts). I also have over six years experience as a sheet metal developer for
Martin Marietta hand forming parts for aerospace platforms. So I did not approach
this project without knowing what I was doing. Anyone is welcome to come
and see this project in person by appointment. Or if you have any questions
or want to see a picture of something specific, just e-mail me and I will respond
as soon as I can. Please, only contact me if you are a serious buyer.
Keith Maloney
Keith.maloney@comcast.net
Fort Collins, CO. 80525
<html><body>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri>FOR SALE: Scratch
Built factory licensed 601 HD (includes HDS license).</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri>For pictures see:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> <A href="http://photoshow.comcast.net/watch/bQ6nh3Ea">http://photoshow.comcast.net/watch/bQ6nh3Ea</A></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri>I am selling
this kit for best offer, that means unless the price exceeds expectations or
you pay me to deliver it, you will need to come and get it.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun:
yes"> The bottom dollar is $1000 and </SPAN>I am located in Fort
Collins, Colorado.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I have about
$9000 dollars and hundreds of hours into this, but it has to go and it would break
my heart to salvage it.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If the
final price exceeds $7000.00, I will consider delivering (lower 48 only) and
setting it up for free.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If the
price exceeds $8000.00 I will throw in a near new Miller Syncrowave 180D tig welder
with accessories.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>This kit
is not something that can easily be packaged and shipped by a third party, so
this is not a reasonable option.</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri>Partially complete
601 scratch kit.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Approximately
90% of sheet metal fabrication is complete and the quality is good.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The fuselage/center section, rudder and
horizontal stabilizer have been drilled and are clecoed together.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>All the wing ribs and spar for the
outboard wings have been fabricated.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The
only assembly that has been riveted together is the center section wing
spar solid rivets have been shot.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I
believe all the sheet metal, tubing and extrusion required to finish the
airframe (including wing skins) is included.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>This complete kit comes with most of the rivets (Avex and solid),
AN hardware, bungees, additional tooling and enough
cleco
s to almost build the plane without rivets .<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>The wheels, breaks, fiberglass parts (wing tips, stabilizer tips, light
mount and tail faring) and elevator trim servo and controls are also included.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The original factory issued
plans, documentation and license number are included.</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri>Whats not included,
nothing firewall forward, canopy bubble, fuel tanks (although the fuel
pumps, capacitive level sensors and duel fuel gage is included) or electronics.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The welded parts included in this
kit (landing gear, rudder pedals and engine mounts) are for mock-up purposes
only and I make no claims that they are flight worthy, mainly because I am
not a certified or experienced welder.</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri>The kit quality
is good and all hand built by myself.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>I have four year experience in the US Air Force as a Airframe Structural
Repair specialist (that means I have shot about a gazilion rivets and
manufactured thousands <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>of Air Frame
parts).<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I also have over six
years experience as a sheet metal developer for Martin Marietta hand forming parts
for aerospace platforms.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>So
I did not approach this project without knowing what I was doing.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun:
yes"> </SPAN>Anyone is welcome to come and see this project
in person by appointment.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Or if
you have any questions or want to see a picture of something specific, just e-mail
me and I will respond as soon as I can.<SPAN st
yle="m
so-spa: yes"> </SPAN>Please, only contact me if you are a serious buyer.</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p><FONT face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri>Keith Maloney</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><A href="mailto:Keith.maloney@comcast.net"><FONT face=Calibri color=#0000ff>Keith.maloney@comcast.net</FONT></A></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri>Fort Collins,
CO. 80525</FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy flashing |
And there is always they option to not do the flashing at all.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129907#129907
Message 18
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| Subject: | Polishing 6061: print shadow? |
Hey!
I have some water stained aluminum on one side of a sheet and the other side looks
just fine. I know the stain is just cosmetic and will scotchbrite it a fair
amount before using it. The unblemished side happens to be the same side as
the mill printing. Will this mill printing come out completely during the polishing
proceedure, or will there be a feint shadow? If it will come out nicely,
then I will put it on the outside and polish it.
Thanks,
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129911#129911
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Fellow builders,
I recently purchased a completed 601XL tail kit and wing kit that has been
started from a local builder who gave up his project due to divorce. After
these parts are done, I plan on finishing the fuselage by scratch building
it, but was not sure what the longest bend I would have to fabricate with
a brake on the fuse section? Wasn't sure if I needed to build one of those
8 ft brakes or not?
Alan
601XL w/Corvair?
_________________________________________________________________
Learn. Laugh. Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Increase in gross weight for old 701 |
Hey Paul,
The CG stays the same and so does the CG limits. This is the same aircraft, the
only changes in the SP are some thicker attach points and gussets, so that it
can handle the higher gross weight with the same G's as the old model.
Its like some aircraft that have one gross weight for normal flying and another
for aerobatic flight.
If I fly with a gross weight of 960 lbs I will still be able to pull +4 and -2
G's. Also if went on a diet and lost a hundred pounds and went up with the fuel
tanks half full I could pull +5 G's. And still only put the same stress on
the aircraft as in the original configuration.
My aircraft will have the same load on it at 1100 lbs gross at +3.5 and -1.7, as
it will at 960 lbs gross at +4 and -2 G's.
The calculations for all of this is on Zenith's drawings, dated 06/2001, drawing
7-G-3. A list of all of the updated parts for the SP are on drawing 7-G-2.
Not much of a penalty of G's for a good increase in gross weight.
Mark S.
701 912ULS
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 2:54:26 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Increase in gross weight for old 701
Hi Mark,
I wonder if you are covering all the issues by merely adjusting the
load factors. It seems to me there might be other impacts to
changing the maximum gross weight besides ultimate loads. For
instance, you might change the way CG changes impact the plane's handling.
I think it might be appropriate to go through a complete phase 1
flight test program after making the gross weight change. This would
examine the entire flight envelope and characterize the behavior of
the newly limited plane.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 01:12 PM 8/19/2007, you wrote:
>You can change the gross weight to what ever you want. You will need to
>change the load factor in your POH. I have the old kit and have made
>most of the changes to the SP, but not all. What I have done is, using
>Chris's calculations on the drawings, I will be using an 1100 lbs gross
>weight with a load factor of +3.5 and -1.7. Rather than the +4 and -2.
>This will give me the same load on the aircraft.
>Mark S.
>701/912ULS
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| Subject: | 601 XL layout sheets question |
Please tell if I'm missing something, but the PDF layout sheets available at http://ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm have me a little confused.
On each sheet there is a small table titled "Colour Code". It appears to list the
material thicknesses, then in the next column is a list of colours. I don't
understand how this relates to the layout sheets, as each sheet has a thickness
stated at the top of the page. Can someone please clarify?
Thanks, Glenn
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129916#129916
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