---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/19/07: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:26 AM - T throttle design (chris Sinfield) 2. 05:42 AM - Re: T throttle design (leinad) 3. 05:56 AM - Re: T throttle design (chris Sinfield) 4. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: T throttle design (Robin Bellach) 5. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: T throttle design (Randy Stout) 6. 08:23 AM - early 701 to 1025 gross (Tom Flanagan) 7. 11:11 AM - Canopy flashing (wade jones) 8. 11:25 AM - Re: early 701 to 1025 gross (ZodieRocket) 9. 11:27 AM - Re: early 701 to 1025 gross (ronlee) 10. 11:43 AM - Re: Canopy flashing (LarryMcFarland) 11. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: T throttle design (Paul Mulwitz) 12. 01:14 PM - Increase in gross weight for old 701 (Mark Sherman) 13. 01:33 PM - Re: Canopy flashing (Gary Ray) 14. 02:55 PM - Re: Increase in gross weight for old 701 (Paul Mulwitz) 15. 03:20 PM - Re: Canopy flashing (Juan Vega) 16. 05:18 PM - Scratch Built 601 HD kit for sale, absolutly has to go. (keith.maloney@comcast.net) 17. 08:08 PM - Re: Canopy flashing (Gig Giacona) 18. 09:40 PM - Polishing 6061: print shadow? (messydeer) 19. 09:47 PM - Sc (Alan Lovchik) 20. 10:49 PM - Re: Increase in gross weight for old 701 (Mark Sherman) 21. 11:33 PM - 601 XL layout sheets question (Jugle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:26:30 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: T throttle design From: "chris Sinfield" OK Gang I see lots of 601's and XL's with the T throttle set up due to the yoke. Where is this throttle design found as its not in my XL plans ?? From photos is there a friction anywhere? is it all located on the extrusion on ther inside of the engine cowl? [Question] [Question] Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129787#129787 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:51 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: T throttle design From: "leinad" Chris, My XL plans show the entire assembly with detalis of parts with a friction lock. It's drawing 6-E-5. dated 06/03 titled DUAL THROTTLE CHOKE. Dan > I see lots of 601's and XL's with the T throttle set up due to the yoke. Where is this throttle design found as its not in my XL plans ?? From photos is there a friction anywhere? is it all located on the extrusion on ther inside of the engine cowl? > Chris > -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129793#129793 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: T throttle design From: "chris Sinfield" Thats funny I have the latest XL plans march 06 and I have no drawings of that. On the drawing list I have Powerplant and then 4 engine mounts I have no 6-E??Engine section Its not an option or a separately available?? What gives??? I have the normal XL kit SN 6337 Am I missing drawings? Can someone scan in the drawing list so I have some info to ask the factory for ?? thanks Chris [Question] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129797#129797 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:42 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: T throttle design Mine too. Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "leinad" Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 7:41 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: T throttle design > > Chris, > My XL plans show the entire assembly with detalis of parts with a > friction lock. It's drawing 6-E-5. dated 06/03 titled DUAL THROTTLE > CHOKE. > Dan > > >> I see lots of 601's and XL's with the T throttle set up due to the yoke. >> Where is this throttle design found as its not in my XL plans ?? From >> photos is there a friction anywhere? is it all located on the extrusion >> on ther inside of the engine cowl? >> Chris >> >> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:33 AM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: T throttle design They may have taken it out because not too many people like it or you just got shorted on your drawings. I tried it for awhile and it has a tendancy to creep toward idle. Anyway here's the link http://www.zenithair.com/cad/6-E-5.dwf If you don't already have it, you will have to download a dwf viewer http://www.autodesk.com/expressviewer Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 n282rs at satx.rr.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > chris Sinfield > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 6:56 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: T throttle design > > > --> > > Thats funny > I have the latest XL plans march 06 and I have no drawings of > that. On the drawing list I have Powerplant and then 4 > engine mounts I have no 6-E??Engine section Its not an > option or a separately available?? > > What gives??? > > I have the normal XL kit SN 6337 Am I missing drawings? Can > someone scan in the drawing list so I have some info to ask > the factory for ?? > > thanks > Chris [Question] > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129797#129797 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:50 AM PST US From: "Tom Flanagan" Subject: Zenith-List: early 701 to 1025 gross What modifications are required to change an earlier model to the higher gross , or can,t this be done if the plane is already N numbered ? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:11:36 AM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy flashing Hello Group ,For stretching part # 6c3-5 and me not owning a stretcher is there a neater way than the ball peen hammer for this chore . Thanks Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:26 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: early 701 to 1025 gross Almost 30 changes, including remaking your spars and a good portion of your fuselage behind the seats. It can be done , however it may be faster and easier to build a new plane Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Zenith-List: early 701 to 1025 gross What modifications are required to change an earlier model to the higher gross , or can,t this be done if the plane is already N numbered ? 8/19/2007 7:27 AM 8/19/2007 7:27 AM ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:27:48 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: early 701 to 1025 gross From: "ronlee" There are many, many, many revisions deep inside the 701 structure that can't be changed! Sorry about that. As far as the FAA goes I would think you could up the GW with the proper paper work. Several older planes have had that done. Now I must say, that is only a guess as, I don't know for sure. -------- Ron Lee Tucson, Arizona Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129835#129835 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:33 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy flashing Wade, The ball peen hammer process can be done neatly, but you have to place the unseen side of the flashing up and the exposed side against a smooth block of steel. Cold rolled steel is usually very smooth. Also it is very controllable. Put a template outline on a piece of poster board that you can work to. Then start from the center edge working each way to get it to radius. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flashinghammered.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopycurvegap.gif You can see the hammering on the inside, but on the exposed side, the surface will be smooth. Practice on a short piece to get the best technique. good luck, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com wade jones wrote: > Hello Group ,For stretching part # 6c3-5 and me not owning a stretcher > is there a neater way than the ball peen hammer for this chore . > Thanks Wade Jones South Texas > 601XL plans building > Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:48 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: T throttle design The way this all comes out on my drawings (or lack of drawings) is the throttle is part of the fire wall forward package rather than the airframe design. My basic drawings don't include that feature at all, but the FWF package I bought from UsJabiru includes a dual throttle option. Paul XL fuselage FWF still unpacked At 05:56 AM 8/19/2007, you wrote: >Thats funny >I have the latest XL plans march 06 and I have no drawings of that. >On the drawing list I have Powerplant and then 4 engine mounts >I have no 6-E??Engine section Its not an option or a separately available?? > >What gives??? > >I have the normal XL kit SN 6337 Am I missing drawings? Can someone >scan in the drawing list so I have some info to ask the factory for ?? > >thanks >Chris [Question] > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:44 PM PST US From: Mark Sherman Subject: Zenith-List: Increase in gross weight for old 701 Subject: early 701 to 1025 gross From: Tom Flanagan (flanagan@nycap.rr.com) What modifications are required to change an earlier model to the higher gross , or can,t this be done if the plane is already N numbered ? Tom. You can change the gross weight to what ever you want. You will need to change the load factor in your POH. I have the old kit and have made most of the changes to the SP, but not all. What I have done is, using Chris's calculations on the drawings, I will be using an 1100 lbs gross weight with a load factor of +3.5 and -1.7. Rather than the +4 and -2. This will give me the same load on the aircraft. Mark S. 701/912ULS ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:38 PM PST US From: "Gary Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy flashing Wade I also used 1/2" felt weather strip as a trim piece on top of the inner canopy flashing which will cover any defects nicely. It comes in pre-cut rolls for a couple dollars at the hardware store. Gary Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: wade jones To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy flashing Hello Group ,For stretching part # 6c3-5 and me not owning a stretcher is there a neater way than the ball peen hammer for this chore . Thanks Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/17/07 5:43 PM ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:59 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Increase in gross weight for old 701 Hi Mark, I wonder if you are covering all the issues by merely adjusting the load factors. It seems to me there might be other impacts to changing the maximum gross weight besides ultimate loads. For instance, you might change the way CG changes impact the plane's handling. I think it might be appropriate to go through a complete phase 1 flight test program after making the gross weight change. This would examine the entire flight envelope and characterize the behavior of the newly limited plane. Paul XL fuselage At 01:12 PM 8/19/2007, you wrote: >You can change the gross weight to what ever you want. You will need to >change the load factor in your POH. I have the old kit and have made >most of the changes to the SP, but not all. What I have done is, using >Chris's calculations on the drawings, I will be using an 1100 lbs gross >weight with a load factor of +3.5 and -1.7. Rather than the +4 and -2. >This will give me the same load on the aircraft. >Mark S. >701/912ULS ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:09 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy flashing a powder coat application with a ping texture will also do it well if you are uncomfortable with the skills to hammer it. It covers mistakes well also, trust me I know. and had plenty of them./; Juan -----Original Message----- >From: LarryMcFarland >Sent: Aug 19, 2007 2:40 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy flashing > > >Wade, >The ball peen hammer process can be done neatly, but you have to place >the unseen side of the flashing up and the exposed side >against a smooth block of steel. Cold rolled steel is usually very >smooth. Also it is very controllable. Put a template outline >on a piece of poster board that you can work to. Then start from the >center edge working each way to get it to radius. >http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flashinghammered.gif >http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopycurvegap.gif >You can see the hammering on the inside, but on the exposed side, the >surface will be smooth. > >Practice on a short piece to get the best technique. > >good luck, > >Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > >wade jones wrote: >> Hello Group ,For stretching part # 6c3-5 and me not owning a stretcher >> is there a neater way than the ball peen hammer for this chore . >> Thanks Wade Jones South Texas >> 601XL plans building >> Cont. 0200 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:40 PM PST US From: keith.maloney@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch Built 601 HD kit for sale, absolutly has to go. FOR SALE: Scratch Built factory licensed 601 HD (includes HDS license). For pictures see: http://photoshow.comcast.net/watch/bQ6nh3Ea I am selling this kit for best offer, that means unless the price exceeds expectations or you pay me to deliver it, you will need to come and get it. The bottom dollar is $1000 and I am located in Fort Collins, Colorado. I have about $9000 dollars and hundreds of hours into this, but it has to go and it would break my heart to salvage it. If the final price exceeds $7000.00, I will consider delivering (lower 48 only) and setting it up for free. If the price exceeds $8000.00 I will throw in a near new Miller Syncrowave 180D tig welder with accessories. This kit is not something that can easily be packaged and shipped by a third party, so this is not a reasonable option. Partially complete 601 scratch kit. Approximately 90% of sheet metal fabrication is complete and the quality is good. The fuselage/center section, rudder and horizontal stabilizer have been drilled and are clecoed together. All the wing ribs and spar for the outboard wings have been fabricated. The only assembly that has been riveted together is the center section wing spar solid rivets have been shot. I believe all the sheet metal, tubing and extrusion required to finish the airframe (including wing skins) is included. This complete kit comes with most of the rivets (Avex and solid), AN hardware, bungees, additional tooling and enough clecos to almost build the plane without rivets . The wheels, breaks, fiberglass parts (wing tips, stabilizer tips, light mount and tail faring) and elevator trim servo and controls are also included. The original factory issued plans, documentation and license number are included. Whats not included, nothing firewall forward, canopy bubble, fuel tanks (although the fuel pumps, capacitive level sensors and duel fuel gage is included) or electronics. The welded parts included in this kit (landing gear, rudder pedals and engine mounts) are for mock-up purposes only and I make no claims that they are flight worthy, mainly because I am not a certified or experienced welder. The kit quality is good and all hand built by myself. I have four year experience in the US Air Force as a Airframe Structural Repair specialist (that means I have shot about a gazilion rivets and manufactured thousands of Air Frame parts). I also have over six years experience as a sheet metal developer for Martin Marietta hand forming parts for aerospace platforms. So I did not approach this project without knowing what I was doing. Anyone is welcome to come and see this project in person by appointment. Or if you have any questions or want to see a picture of something specific, just e-mail me and I will respond as soon as I can. Please, only contact me if you are a serious buyer. Keith Maloney Keith.maloney@comcast.net Fort Collins, CO. 80525

FOR SALE: Scratch Built factory licensed 601 HD (includes HDS license).

For pictures see:  http://photoshow.comcast.net/watch/bQ6nh3Ea

I am selling this kit for best offer, that means unless the price exceeds expectations or you pay me to deliver it, you will need to come and get it.  The bottom dollar is $1000 and I am located in Fort Collins, Colorado.  I have about $9000 dollars and hundreds of hours into this, but it has to go and it would break my heart to salvage it.  If the final price exceeds $7000.00, I will consider delivering (lower 48 only) and setting it up for free.  If the price exceeds $8000.00 I will throw in a near new Miller Syncrowave 180D tig welder with accessories.  This kit is not something that can easily be packaged and shipped by a third party, so this is not a reasonable option.

Partially complete 601 scratch kit.  Approximately 90% of sheet metal fabrication is complete and the quality is good.  The fuselage/center section, rudder and horizontal stabilizer have been drilled and are clecoed together.  All the wing ribs and spar for the outboard wings have been fabricated.  The only assembly that has been riveted together is the center section wing spar solid rivets have been shot.  I believe all the sheet metal, tubing and extrusion required to finish the airframe (including wing skins) is included.  This complete kit comes with most of the rivets (Avex and solid), AN hardware, bungees, additional tooling and enough cleco s to almost build the plane without rivets .  The wheels, breaks, fiberglass parts (wing tips, stabilizer tips, light mount and tail faring) and elevator trim servo and controls are also included.  The original factory issued plans, documentation and license number are included.

Whats not included, nothing firewall forward, canopy bubble, fuel tanks (although the fuel pumps, capacitive level sensors and duel fuel gage is included) or electronics.  The welded parts included in this kit (landing gear, rudder pedals and engine mounts) are for mock-up purposes only and I make no claims that they are flight worthy, mainly because I am not a certified or experienced welder.

The kit quality is good and all hand built by myself.  I have four year experience in the US Air Force as a Airframe Structural Repair specialist (that means I have shot about a gazilion rivets and manufactured thousands  of Air Frame parts).  I also have over six years experience as a sheet metal developer for Martin Marietta hand forming parts for aerospace platforms.  So I did not approach this project without knowing what I was doing.  Anyone is welcome to come and see this project in person by appointment.  Or if you have any questions or want to see a picture of something specific, just e-mail me and I will respond as soon as I can.  Please, only contact me if you are a serious buyer.

 

Keith Maloney

Keith.maloney@comcast.net

Fort Collins, CO. 80525
________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy flashing From: "Gig Giacona" And there is always they option to not do the flashing at all. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129907#129907 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:22 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Polishing 6061: print shadow? From: "messydeer" Hey! I have some water stained aluminum on one side of a sheet and the other side looks just fine. I know the stain is just cosmetic and will scotchbrite it a fair amount before using it. The unblemished side happens to be the same side as the mill printing. Will this mill printing come out completely during the polishing proceedure, or will there be a feint shadow? If it will come out nicely, then I will put it on the outside and polish it. Thanks, Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129911#129911 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:44 PM PST US From: Alan Lovchik Subject: Zenith-List: Sc Fellow builders, I recently purchased a completed 601XL tail kit and wing kit that has been started from a local builder who gave up his project due to divorce. After these parts are done, I plan on finishing the fuselage by scratch building it, but was not sure what the longest bend I would have to fabricate with a brake on the fuse section? Wasn't sure if I needed to build one of those 8 ft brakes or not? Alan 601XL w/Corvair? _________________________________________________________________ Learn. Laugh. Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:07 PM PST US From: Mark Sherman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Increase in gross weight for old 701 Hey Paul, The CG stays the same and so does the CG limits. This is the same aircraft, the only changes in the SP are some thicker attach points and gussets, so that it can handle the higher gross weight with the same G's as the old model. Its like some aircraft that have one gross weight for normal flying and another for aerobatic flight. If I fly with a gross weight of 960 lbs I will still be able to pull +4 and -2 G's. Also if went on a diet and lost a hundred pounds and went up with the fuel tanks half full I could pull +5 G's. And still only put the same stress on the aircraft as in the original configuration. My aircraft will have the same load on it at 1100 lbs gross at +3.5 and -1.7, as it will at 960 lbs gross at +4 and -2 G's. The calculations for all of this is on Zenith's drawings, dated 06/2001, drawing 7-G-3. A list of all of the updated parts for the SP are on drawing 7-G-2. Not much of a penalty of G's for a good increase in gross weight. Mark S. 701 912ULS ----- Original Message ---- From: Paul Mulwitz Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 2:54:26 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Increase in gross weight for old 701 Hi Mark, I wonder if you are covering all the issues by merely adjusting the load factors. It seems to me there might be other impacts to changing the maximum gross weight besides ultimate loads. For instance, you might change the way CG changes impact the plane's handling. I think it might be appropriate to go through a complete phase 1 flight test program after making the gross weight change. This would examine the entire flight envelope and characterize the behavior of the newly limited plane. Paul XL fuselage At 01:12 PM 8/19/2007, you wrote: >You can change the gross weight to what ever you want. You will need to >change the load factor in your POH. I have the old kit and have made >most of the changes to the SP, but not all. What I have done is, using >Chris's calculations on the drawings, I will be using an 1100 lbs gross >weight with a load factor of +3.5 and -1.7. Rather than the +4 and -2. >This will give me the same load on the aircraft. >Mark S. >701/912ULS ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:00 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL layout sheets question From: "Jugle" Please tell if I'm missing something, but the PDF layout sheets available at http://ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm have me a little confused. On each sheet there is a small table titled "Colour Code". It appears to list the material thicknesses, then in the next column is a list of colours. I don't understand how this relates to the layout sheets, as each sheet has a thickness stated at the top of the page. Can someone please clarify? Thanks, Glenn Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129916#129916 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.