---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/21/07: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:23 AM - Re: Do you really need a fuel pump on a 701 (jetboy) 2. 03:07 AM - Re: weight & balance with one scale? (David Downey) 3. 05:37 AM - Re: weight & balance with one scale? (Graeme Bell) 4. 05:52 AM - Re: Another 701 (LRM) 5. 06:21 AM - alumunum (LRM) 6. 07:07 AM - Re: weight & balance with one scale? (Gig Giacona) 7. 08:20 AM - Re: Battery question (LarryMcFarland) 8. 09:23 AM - Re: Battery question (Gig Giacona) 9. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: Battery question (Juan Vega) 10. 11:40 AM - New DVD for 601XL Quick-build builders (Jon Croke) 11. 11:48 AM - Re:weight & balance with one scale? (MaxNr@aol.com) 12. 11:57 AM - New Chat Room For Airplane Builders (George Race) 13. 12:16 PM - Re: New Chat Room For Airplane Builders (Rob St Denis) 14. 12:18 PM - 701 landing issues (Jerry Hey) 15. 12:57 PM - Re: weight & balance with one scale? (Bryan Martin) 16. 01:09 PM - Re: Re:weight & balance with one scale? (Bryan Martin) 17. 01:21 PM - chat (Rob St Denis) 18. 02:14 PM - Re: weight & balance with one scale? (David Downey) 19. 02:47 PM - Re: Re:weight & balance with one scale? (LarryMcFarland) 20. 03:59 PM - Re: Re:weight & balance with one scale? (Terry Fogelson) 21. 05:32 PM - Re: New Chat Room For Airplane Builders (PatrickW) 22. 05:49 PM - Re:weight & balance with one scale? (MaxNr@aol.com) 23. 06:51 PM - Re: Re:weight & balance with one scale? (George Swinford) 24. 07:32 PM - Re: Re:weight & balance with one scale? (Ronald Steele) 25. 08:12 PM - Re: alumunum (Ron Lendon) 26. 08:21 PM - Re: weight & balance with one scale? (Bryan Martin) 27. 08:29 PM - Re: Re:weight & balance with one scale? (Bryan Martin) 28. 08:38 PM - Re: 701 landing issues (Stanley Challgren) 29. 08:39 PM - Subject: weight & balance with one scale? (Chuck Deiterich) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:09 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Do you really need a fuel pump on a 701 From: "jetboy" George, I dont have any pump on mine. Because the 2200 has the carb down low there is enough head for the specified 0.75 psi ? requirement and I did fuel flow checks including tail down measured flow into the carb float chamber was all above requirements. This meant I could remove the engine pump and eliminate another source of trouble. A rotax would be different because the carbs are up high Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130083#130083 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:38 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: RE: Zenith-List: weight & balance with one scale? just curious: aren't the scales required to be certified for W&B use anymore? Phil Maxson wrote: .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } That's how I did mine. Do Not Archive Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey --------------------------------- From: n4546v@mindspring.com Subject: Zenith-List: weight & balance with one scale? This is probably a Rookie question and is only for discussion as I have access to three scales, but if one wanted, could you correctly weigh an airplane with just one scale if you put scale height blocks under the other wheels as you moved the scale from wheel to wheel? First glance is that it would weigh correctly as long as the other wheels are at the constant height. Not very convenient though. Regards, Randy, Las Vegas --------------------------------- Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more! Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:55 AM PST US From: "Graeme Bell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weight & balance with one scale? Question I have a Ch701 a friend of mine is building a ch601 HD which has been un touched for a number of years . He hopes to soon be building again. I mentioned the solid alloy gear legs . Can he build his fuse to take the alloy legs ( the fuselage is not started ) he intends to build a tail dragger and has the wing mount wheel kit. Thanks Graeme ----- Original Message ----- From: David Downey To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: weight & balance with one scale? just curious: aren't the scales required to be certified for W&B use anymore? Phil Maxson wrote: That's how I did mine. Do Not Archive Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - From: n4546v@mindspring.com Subject: Zenith-List: weight & balance with one scale? Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:37:27 -0700 This is probably a Rookie question and is only for discussion as I have access to three scales, but if one wanted, could you correctly weigh an airplane with just one scale if you put ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - 06/08/2007 16:53 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:54 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another 701 No, I am still fighting the vibration problem. Just got my prop back from Culver. They said it was way out of balance. Hopeful we will spin it up any day now. The weather isn't cooperating. I always have to have something to do. I'm retired and if I sit on my rear end I would probably not have to worry about projects long, if you get my meaning. Plus I picked the kit up pretty reasonably. So why not. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: ZodieRocket To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 10:18 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Another 701 Larry, if you have taken on a new 701 that must mean that your Skyhawg is flying. I must have missed the announcement, I try to watch this list closely, but from time to time I just get to busy. Especially with Arlington, Oshkosh , UPAC convention and building a 601QBK for a customer, I have hardly had time to watch this list for recient events. So how is the Harley working on your plane? Do you have some #=92s to share yet? I am curious on how you like those Pegastol wings now that your in the air and have tried them out on a 701, can you report on their value with actual data now, or is it still too early in the testing phase? You have put a lot of time into your 701, I have been watching your progress ever since you had the Sub 2.5 L in it. Congrats on completion and the fortitude to start another project so soon. It lends a lot of credibility to a builder working on their second plane while flying their first plane. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 10:27 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Another 701 I needed a new project so I just bought a part of an unfinished 701 kit consisting of the tail and wings. I am going to build the entire plane strictly for sale upon completion. I will need a few things, like fuselage parts, instruments, engine, prop, landing gear, etc. Any of you know of any bargains, e-mail me @ lrm@skyhawg.com. This is going to be a plain Jane quality build. Nothing fancy, except it will definitely have sliding seats. I have no idea of what I am going to ask, but it will be reasonable. So if any one thinks they might be interested in about 6 or 7 months, e-mail me and I will put you on the list. When it's done and ready for the DAR I will contact everyone on the list. I plan on being done in the spring. I will also start a new section on my site about the progress of this new project. Check it at your convenience and thank you. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L - The Zenith-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com 8/19/2007 7:27 AM 8/19/2007 7:27 AM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:00 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Zenith-List: alumunum Ok, I know it's been here before, but I am too lazy to search the archives. Where are the best prices on aluminum, rivets, etc.? Thanks, Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:54 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: weight & balance with one scale? From: "Gig Giacona" Not in Experimental land. planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote: > just curious: aren't the scales required to be certified for W&B use anymore? > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130106#130106 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:22 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery question Dan, The vents you mention are still needed because the battery has a limited life and will require replacement. The next person replacing the battery may not choose the gel type on the next go round and problems with not having vents may become an issue. In any case, I'd not hesitate to put in correct vents. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Dan wrote: > > I am installing my battery this week and have a dumb question. Since > I have a gel battery with no vent, do I need to install the battery > box vents? > > Dan Wilde ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:41 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Battery question From: "Gig Giacona" Since he is the builder all he has to do is put in his POH that the aircraft requires a sealed, ventless battery. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130118#130118 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:52:24 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Battery question good to know, i am putting together my POH and have a sealed batery. -----Original Message----- >From: Gig Giacona >Sent: Aug 21, 2007 12:22 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Battery question > > >Since he is the builder all he has to do is put in his POH that the aircraft requires a sealed, ventless battery. > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130118#130118 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:28 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: New DVD for 601XL Quick-build builders HomebuiltHELP has just released a new DVD entitled: 601XL Quick-build Tips & Techniques. The target audience is the builder of the 601XL QUICK-BUILD kit. It covers and demonstrates construction tasks such as landing and nose gear installation, building wing lockers, landing lights, and more. Its goal is to help make the quickbuild option an even easier, faster way to get flying! More information and pictures are available at http://homebuilthelp.com/601XLQB.htm ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:48 AM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:weight & balance with one scale? I'm sure that a single scale (or two to average out) would be adequate. Sure, it takes a little longer. But how often are you going to do it? I would like to know if a 300 pound scale would be enough? What are the empty weights that builders are seeing on the MLG? The nose wheel? The price of scales go up for a 400 pound scale. Those analog spring scales may be inaccurate near their upper limits. I am going digital for the accuracy. I will try to borrow or rent because I'm cheap. Medical scales go up to 800 pounds. Alternatively: I weighed the tongue weight of my RV trailer using the mfg.'s published method. Bridge a solid fixed point and the scale with a 2 by 6 plank. Put the tongue on the plank at a 2/3 point. I doubled the reading and I found that the tongue weighed MORE OR LESS 700 pounds. I used a 300 pound bathroom scale. That's a whole lot of trouble for three wheels though. Bob from Pace,FL 601XL/Lyc ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:44 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: New Chat Room For Airplane Builders Hi All: For some unknown reason our normal Monday evening chat room seems to have quit working. I have tried several times today and I still cannot bring it up. Sooooooooooooooo.............. This afternoon I threw together a new public chat room! Would like to try it out this evening at 8:00 Eastern Time and would appreciate it if some of you could stop by and try it out. We can go back to the normal Monday evening schedule, but need to make sure the chat room works as it should. You will be ask to Enter a Username. That is what will appear ahead of all your postings to the chat room. The address is: http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat Will be there this evening at 8:00. Hope some of you can make it as well. George - Kit Building CH-701 - N73EX (reserved) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:31 PM PST US From: "Rob St Denis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Chat Room For Airplane Builders ya ... tnx a bunch George, my server had a bit of a melt down and been causing me some grief ... will be up for monday if we prefer to use the old one ... either ways good for me On 8/21/07, George Race wrote: > > Hi All: > > For some unknown reason our normal Monday evening chat room seems to have > quit working. I have tried several times today and I still cannot bring it > up. > > Sooooooooooooooo.............. This afternoon I threw together a new > public chat room! > > Would like to try it out this evening at 8:00 Eastern Time and would > appreciate it if some of you could stop by and try it out. We can go back > to the normal Monday evening schedule, but need to make sure the chat room > works as it should. > > You will be ask to Enter a Username. That is what will appear ahead of > all your postings to the chat room. > > The address is: http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat > > Will be there this evening at 8:00. Hope some of you can make it as well. > > George - Kit Building CH-701 - N73EX (reserved) > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:38 PM PST US From: Jerry Hey Subject: Zenith-List: 701 landing issues I am on schedule with setting up the shop and ordering materials to begin scratch building a 701 first week of September. In the meantime I have read and heard about handling problems at low approach speeds. The announcement yesterday from Stol Speed re putting VGs on the elevator (together with removing the slats and VGs on the wing) achieving excellent results brought the issue up again. I am tempted to order the VGs today. Here is the question-- how do you all feel about eliminating the slats and adding the VGs. Thanks, Jerry ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:58 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weight & balance with one scale? Not for a homebuilt, any scale will do as long as you can get a fairly accurate reading from it. My DAR never asked me how I weighed my plane, just checked to make sure had a W&B sheet with my paperwork. > just curious: aren't the scales required to be certified for W&B use > anymore? > > */Phil Maxson /* wrote: -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:13 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:weight & balance with one scale? I would use two 300 lb scales in tandem. That way you can keep the readings near midscale where it's more accurate and you don't have to worry about overloading the scales. Just put a plank between the two scales with the tire on the plank and add the two readings. Calibrate them first with known weights. MaxNr@aol.com wrote: > I'm sure that a single scale (or two to average out) would be adequate. > Sure, it takes a little longer. But how often are you going to do it? I > would like to know if a 300 pound scale would be enough? What are the > empty weights that builders are seeing on the MLG? The nose wheel? The -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:04 PM PST US From: "Rob St Denis" Subject: Zenith-List: chat back up and raring to go http://chat.iahu.ca ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:28 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weight & balance with one scale? Wow! I just can't believe how this activity has morphed in the last 30 years since I was last seriously engaged in it! Did the DAR at the very least check the W&B sheet entries and math? Did he check the manufacturers/designers limits? Wow! Bryan Martin wrote: Not for a homebuilt, any scale will do as long as you can get a fairly accurate reading from it. My DAR never asked me how I weighed my plane, just checked to make sure had a W&B sheet with my paperwork. > just curious: aren't the scales required to be certified for W&B use > anymore? > > */Phil Maxson /* wrote: -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:47 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:weight & balance with one scale? Bryan, My weight empty with oil and coolant is 265, 264 mains and 231 for the nose. I found my 300 lb scales are accurate +/-1 lb so long as you place a 1/4 inch aluminum plate under each tire for weight distribution. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Bryan Martin wrote: > > > I would use two 300 lb scales in tandem. That way you can keep the > readings near midscale where it's more accurate and you don't have to > worry about overloading the scales. Just put a plank between the two > scales with the tire on the plank and add the two readings. Calibrate > them first with known weights. > > MaxNr@aol.com wrote: >> I'm sure that a single scale (or two to average out) would be >> adequate. Sure, it takes a little longer. But how often are you going >> to do it? I would like to know if a 300 pound scale would be enough? >> What are the empty weights that builders are seeing on the MLG? The >> nose wheel? The ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:23 PM PST US From: Terry Fogelson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:weight & balance with one scale? I seem to remember when studying for the A&P test that the plate should be greased so as the weight was placed on the scale that it would slide and relieve any sideways stress. That was a long time ago and in a galazy far far away. Terry --- LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > Bryan, > My weight empty with oil and coolant is 265, 264 > mains and 231 for the nose. > I found my 300 lb scales are accurate +/-1 lb so > long as you place a 1/4 > inch aluminum plate under each tire for weight > distribution. > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > Bryan Martin wrote: > > > > > > I would use two 300 lb scales in tandem. That way > you can keep the > > readings near midscale where it's more accurate > and you don't have to > > worry about overloading the scales. Just put a > plank between the two > > scales with the tire on the plank and add the two > readings. Calibrate > > them first with known weights. > > > > MaxNr@aol.com wrote: > >> I'm sure that a single scale (or two to average > out) would be > >> adequate. Sure, it takes a little longer. But how > often are you going > >> to do it? I would like to know if a 300 pound > scale would be enough? > >> What are the empty weights that builders are > seeing on the MLG? The > >> nose wheel? The > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Web Forums! > > > > > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:56 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New Chat Room For Airplane Builders From: "PatrickW" Thank you so much for setting this up! Patrick XL/Corvair Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130188#130188 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:40 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:weight & balance with one scale? Am I the only one to catch my math error on my "alternative method?" Double it if the weight is center plank. Seriously, its a clunky way to do the deed, but its still my fall back method. I will be looking for at least a 330 lb digital scale. My ball park figures for a plane not yet completed are based on some numbers from completed Lyc 601XL's. And that is north of 800 lbs empty weight. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised. I'm just guessing that the weight on the mains would be at least 650. Another thing. Not to offend, but I'm converting MM's to inches and do the chart C in Yankee inch/pound moments. I've been doing W/B in that format for half a century and I'm too old and ornery to change. I can build in metric but flying is another thing. When I was working for the man, I had been handed many manifests in kilos and even Stones. No problem. Furthermore, I've given some thought to moving the datum to the prop hub so that I don't have to compute with negative numbers. It does say "experimental" on the airplane after all. This will conform with most every thing I've flown in the past 40 years. Except for my 46 Luscombe and anything else certified before there was an FAA. Do not archive Bob from Pace,FL XL/Lyc ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:43 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:weight & balance with one scale? Bob: There is nothing experimental about moving the datum to any convenient point. At Boeing, as I remember, the zero datum is commonly placed ahead of the nose. so there can be no negative moments. (Well, I admit to a few negative moments while I was at Boeing, but that's another matter.) It was also common to use a "constant moment" diagram to simplify weight and balance calculations. Have you used that sort of W/B presentation? George do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: MaxNr@aol.com To: Zenith-List@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re:weight & balance with one scale? Am I the only one to catch my math error on my "alternative method?" Double it if the weight is center plank. Seriously, its a clunky way to do the deed, but its still my fall back method. I will be looking for at least a 330 lb digital scale. My ball park figures for a plane not yet completed are based on some numbers from completed Lyc 601XL's. And that is north of 800 lbs empty weight. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised. I'm just guessing that the weight on the mains would be at least 650. Another thing. Not to offend, but I'm converting MM's to inches and do the chart C in Yankee inch/pound moments. I've been doing W/B in that format for half a century and I'm too old and ornery to change. I can build in metric but flying is another thing. When I was working for the man, I had been handed many manifests in kilos and even Stones. No problem. Furthermore, I've given some thought to moving the datum to the prop hub so that I don't have to compute with negative numbers. It does say "experimental" on the airplane after all. This will conform with most every thing I've flown in the past 40 years. Except for my 46 Luscombe and anything else certified before there was an FAA. Do not archive Bob from Pace,FL XL/Lyc ****************cover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/20/2007 5:44 PM ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:58 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:weight & balance with one scale? To each his own. I just can't imagine going back to feet and inches. I do woodworking and worked as a surveyor in my younger days so I've even worked with decimals of feet - yuck. I've been looking for metric tools so when I go back to woodworking, after the plane, I don't have to revert to the 17th century. Metric tools are just not available locally, I guess I might have to order them from Canada. If you are talking about using a digital "bathroom scale" be aware that it may be less accurate than an analog one. They still use a spring balance, but they have to include a digitizer too. I'd stick with a high quality dial scale. The Taylor Professional, which I have upstairs, goes up to 330 pounds. I think I picked it up at Sam's Club a few years ago for about $35. Someone suggested calibrating the scale with known weights, which is the best thing to do. Maybe a few sacks of cement? 90lbs each if I remember right. If you calibrate, the actually reading isn't as important as consistency. If the readings are consistent, you can factor out the errors. BTW, calculating wights and balance for the scale is exactly the same as it is for the plane. You can reasonable use a lighter scale and place a board between the scale and a support. The same math you use to figure W/B is used "in reverse" to get the true weight of the wheel. The support needs to be the same height as the scale, and should be a "knife edge" or round so that it can roll. The goal to make sure the support allows the board to pivot freely. Be VERY careful with such a setup. Don't want to drop a plane. Keep us posted on what you end up doing, and how it works. Ron On Aug 21, 2007, at 8:49 PM, MaxNr@aol.com wrote: > Am I the only one to catch my math error on my "alternative > method?" Double it if the weight is center plank. Seriously, its a > clunky way to do the deed, but its still my fall back method. I > will be looking for at least a 330 lb digital scale. My ball park > figures for a plane not yet completed are based on some numbers > from completed Lyc 601XL's. And that is north of 800 lbs empty > weight. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised. I'm just guessing that the > weight on the mains would be at least 650. Another thing. Not to > offend, but I'm converting MM's to inches and do the chart C in > Yankee inch/pound moments. I've been doing W/B in that format for > half a century and I'm too old and ornery to change. I can build in > metric but flying is another thing. When I was working for the man, > I had been handed many manifests in kilos and even Stones. No > problem. Furthermore, I've given some thought to moving the datum > to the prop hub so that I don't have to compute with negative > numbers. It does say "experimental" on the airplane after all. This > will conform with most every thing I've flown in the past 40 years. > Except for my 46 Luscombe and anything else certified before there > was an FAA. > > Do not archive > Bob from Pace,FL XL/Lyc > > > ****************cover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:12 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: alumunum From: "Ron Lendon" Best prices on Aluminum used to be Yarde, it might still be. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130199#130199 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:02 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: weight & balance with one scale? His main concern was to make sure the paperwork was correct and everything was properly labeled and placarded. He did look over the plane and suggest some minor issues that needed correcting. I don't know how carefully he checked the math, the W&B sheet I used was published by Zenith with the limits printed on it. All I did was fill in the blanks and calculate the moments and CG. David Downey wrote: > Wow! I just can't believe how this activity has morphed in the last 30 > years since I was last seriously engaged in it! > > Did the DAR at the very least check the W&B sheet entries and math? Did > he check the manufacturers/designers limits? > > Wow! > > */Bryan Martin /* wrote: > > > Not for a homebuilt, any scale will do as long as you can get a fairly > accurate reading from it. My DAR never asked me how I weighed my plane, > just checked to make sure had a W&B sheet with my paperwork. > > > just curious: aren't the scales required to be certified for W&B use > > anymore? > > > > */Phil Maxson /* wrote: > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:30 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:weight & balance with one scale? My nosewheel load was a little over 300 lbs and it was just easier to put three 50 lb sandbags on the scales to verify accuracy than to mess with five or six. LarryMcFarland wrote: > > Bryan, > My weight empty with oil and coolant is 265, 264 mains and 231 for the > nose. > I found my 300 lb scales are accurate +/-1 lb so long as you place a 1/4 > inch aluminum plate under each tire for weight distribution. > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > Bryan Martin wrote: >> >> >> I would use two 300 lb scales in tandem. That way you can keep the >> readings near midscale where it's more accurate and you don't have to >> worry about overloading the scales. Just put a plank between the two >> scales with the tire on the plank and add the two readings. Calibrate >> them first with known weights. -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:58 PM PST US From: Stanley Challgren Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 landing issues On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Jerry Hey wrote: > . Here is the question--how do you all feel about eliminating the > slats and adding the VGs. Thanks, Jerry My 701 will have the VG's and no slats. Cruise speed will increase, fuel burn will be lower and landing the same. VG's worked great on our 601 HDS and expect the same with the 701. Stan N701VG (Reserved) > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:20 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Subject: Zenith-List: weight & balance with one scale? Randy, I used one bathroom scale that I had calibrated using a scale in the Dr's office. I made paltforms for the wheels with no scale. Be sure to level the airplane both fore and aft and side to side every time you take a reading. I used a hose and clear tubing to make a level to level the airplane fore and aft. I set a 4 foot level on the top and boosted the low end to get it level so I would have a good reference for the measurements. I also set it across the fuselage top for side to side level. I repeated the measurements to be sure nothing changed. Chuck D. 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