---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/24/07: 58 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:03 AM - Re: FWF for 701 (Geoff Heap) 2. 03:13 AM - Re: Re: Fuel System Design (David Wright) 3. 03:20 AM - Re: Re: Fuel System Design (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 4. 03:24 AM - CANOPY FLASHING (GLJSOJ1) 5. 03:33 AM - Re: Sheet Metal Supplier in Hampton Roads VA Area? (GLJSOJ1) 6. 04:03 AM - Re: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS (Paul Mulwitz) 7. 04:35 AM - Re: 801 VOR (Tom Faulkner) 8. 05:30 AM - Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages (steveadams) 9. 05:35 AM - CH701 empenage aluminum sheets (Bruno M.) 10. 05:41 AM - Re: type IV vw engine (R.D.(Ron) Leclerc) 11. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: Sheet Metal Supplier in Hampton Roads VA Area? (Debo Cox) 12. 06:03 AM - FWD [RAA-N] raa events (Jim and Lucy) 13. 06:04 AM - Re: Re: Fuel System Design (Jaybannist@cs.com) 14. 06:07 AM - Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages (Ryan Vechinski) 15. 06:17 AM - Re: VGs on 701 (John C Edwards) 16. 06:17 AM - Re: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 17. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount () 18. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 07/25/07 () 19. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: weight & balance with one scale? () 20. 07:02 AM - Re: VGs on 701 (Jerry Hey) 21. 07:05 AM - Re: Re: weight & balance with one scale? (Juan Vega) 22. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages (NYTerminat@aol.com) 23. 08:24 AM - Re: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS (rickpitcher) 24. 08:25 AM - Re: VGs on 701 (NYTerminat@aol.com) 25. 08:41 AM - Re: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS (Gig Giacona) 26. 08:50 AM - Re: CANOPY FLASHING () 27. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages (hillsgun) 28. 09:20 AM - Re: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS (rickpitcher) 29. 09:46 AM - Re: VGs on 701 (Avidmagnum) 30. 10:07 AM - Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount (Tim Juhl) 31. 10:33 AM - Re: VGs to Z.A.C. (JohnDRead@aol.com) 32. 10:42 AM - 601HD to HDS (john H) 33. 10:49 AM - Re:VG's on 701 (MaxNr@aol.com) 34. 11:12 AM - Re: 601HD to HDS (Dave Austin) 35. 11:37 AM - Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages (steveadams) 36. 11:59 AM - Stolen or lost packages (Robert Schoenberger) 37. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount (Craig Payne) 38. 12:28 PM - Re: VGs to Z.A.C. (NYTerminat@aol.com) 39. 12:38 PM - Re: Stolen or lost packages (John Marzulli) 40. 12:44 PM - Re: Stolen or lost packages (Trainnut01@aol.com) 41. 01:57 PM - Builders Log CD (dhmacp@maqs.net) 42. 02:44 PM - Re: Builders Log CD (hansriet) 43. 03:44 PM - somewhat off topic - Purchasing an incomplete homebuilt (Bob Percival) 44. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 07/25/07 () 45. 04:35 PM - Flap Indicator () 46. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: Stolen or lost packages () 47. 04:44 PM - Re: VGs on 701 (JG) 48. 04:47 PM - Re: Flap Indicator (ZodieRocket) 49. 04:47 PM - Re: Stolen or Lost packages (MaxNr@aol.com) 50. 05:04 PM - New surface pretreatment product called PreKote (David X) 51. 06:11 PM - Re: Flap Indicator (Paul Mulwitz) 52. 06:11 PM - Re: somewhat off topic - Purchasing an incomplete homebuilt (Bryan Martin) 53. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Fuel System Design (Matt & Jo) 54. 07:19 PM - Re: Builders Log CD (Ron Lendon) 55. 07:40 PM - Re: Builders Log CD (Matt Dralle) 56. 07:55 PM - Re: Fuel System Design (Ron Lendon) 57. 08:21 PM - Re: Re: Fuel System Design (Danny Offill) 58. 09:28 PM - Re: Re: Fuel System Design (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: FWF for 701 From: "Geoff Heap" Mike My exp was same as Dan Wilde. 3 months for the package + 3 additional for a 90 degree bent elbow fitting for the cooling system. I have now been waiting about 3 months so far for a Warp drive 3 blade ground adjustable (no charge yet) and I have ordered a full Dynon 180 package and was given a 12 week delivery on that too. Wise up Mike. Everything is a three month wait. Just kidding Mike, looks that way though...PS Dynon sent me the complete instalation package for the unit almost immediately. This is a comprehensive package and will give the builder a lot of work to do while he waits. The unit basicaly just plugs in when it comes. Where are you getting the engine from. I got mine from Lockwood and discovered that they no longer ship engines with the "BANJO bolt" oil return @ bottom of engine. They now ship with a straight fitting that you have to change out. Another 6 week wait for me. Sorry about the long reply, You got nothing else to do though....Geoff.....hang in there Mike. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130688#130688 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:13:18 AM PST US From: David Wright Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design Ron I am more or less at the same stage as you are - I was considering quick disconnects at each wing root - any thoughts on these? Dave Wright Washington UK 601XL Wings, Scratchbuild On 24 Aug 2007, at 03:28, Ron Lendon wrote: > > Craig, > > I have allowed for the pressure gage but hadn't thought about the > flow. And yes it is a Corvair the WW way. I have been waiting > for him to publish the 601 book but have gotten to the point I need > to move forward. > > Got any pictures of the Andair Valve mounted? > > Thanks for the ideas. > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130646#130646 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:59 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design I can send you pics of the complete fuel system I installed for the corvair install if you need them? do not archive Jeff http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: CANOPY FLASHING From: "GLJSOJ1" HI ALL I AM NOW WORKING ON THE FLASHING ON THE FRONT OF THE CANOPY RAILS. BEST I CAN TELL THESE ARE TO SLIDE UNDER THE TOP SKIN WHEN THE CANOPY IS OPENED. FOR PILOTS SIDE I CAN DO THIS IF I CUT A SLOT JUST ABOUVE THE BEND, BUT THE OTHER SIDE IS ANOTHER 1/8 INCH OUTBOARD. SEEMS LIKE I CAN HAVE IT GO OUTSIDE THE TOP SKIN AND JUST LET THE RUBBER SEAL SLIDE OVER THE SKIN. THANKS GLENN THANKS ALSO FOR THE IDEAS FOR THE SCREWS IN THE SIDE FLASHING. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130692#130692 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:11 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sheet Metal Supplier in Hampton Roads VA Area? From: "GLJSOJ1" I'M A KIT BUILDER IN CHESAPEAKE SO I'LL ASK AROUND AT THE NEXT EAA METTING GLENN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130694#130694 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:03 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS Hi Mark, I believe you are correct about the deadline for E-LSA certificates for our planes, but the deadline is actually January 31, 2008. I don't think it matters very much, though. After that date all of the planes we build will need E-AB airworthiness certificates. This is not a problem -- just a few small differences in the phase 1 flight test requirements and repairman certificate qualifications. E-AB planes qualify for Sport Pilot use with exactly the same qualifications and restrictions as E-LSA. For Charles -- All of the engines you mentioned can be used in a CH601HDS. The auto conversions are the heaviest and seem to provide the least performance for the lowest dollar cost. The Rotax and Jabiru cost about the same new and weigh about the same. Performance from the Rotax seems slightly better than the auto conversions while the Jabiru is significantly more powerful than the Rotax. I don't know the current lead times for Rotax engines. Jabiru 3300 had a 3-5 month lead time when I ordered mine in April this year. One small point on the HDS. To qualify as LSA you need to pay attention to the stall speed and cruise speed for this model. You get to specify the exact numbers for your plane when it is certified, but if you choose the wrong numbers it will not qualify as LSA. Some HDS examples have a stall speed that is too high for this purpose, while others just go too fast. Once again, this is not related to the choice of airworthiness certificate but it will impact whether or not a Sport Pilot can fly your plane. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 09:43 PM 8/23/2007, you wrote: > >If you want it to be an ELSA, I believe that you will need it flying by >December of this year. However I may be wrong as I am a Canadian and not >fully up on the U.S. LSA. IF it is true and to meet the ELSA category by >December, you will have to order a Rotax or Jabiru in the next week in >order to have a chance to make the deadline. IF you go auto conversion, >typically add another year to your construction. Also a missed deadline. > >Mark Townsend >Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. >president@can-zacaviation.com >www.can-zacaviation.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles >McGloughlin >Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 12:17 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS > >Having acquired a partially complete 601 HDS kit, which I intend to >complete as an E-LSA, I would like to hear comments on the broad >question below! > >How do the Subaru and Corvair engines stack up against Rotax & Jabiru >when you take cost, installation, available technical support, weight >and final performance into account? And are there any 601 builders >reasonably close to Sacramento, CA? > >Sincerely > >-- >Charles McGloughlin Email - charlesmcg@citlink.net >8654 Bluefield Way Phones - Cell (916)832-0654 >Sacramento, CA 95823 Home (916)689-7701 > > >8/22/2007 6:51 PM > > >8/22/2007 6:51 PM > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:36 AM PST US From: "Tom Faulkner" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 VOR Mark: I mounted my VOR antenna on the top of the rudder and it works fine. Tom Faulkner N801TP 110 hrs ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:36 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages From: "steveadams" I have the opposite problem to what you describe, and I refuse to use UPS if I can help it. This is a bit of a rant, but I have really had it with UPS and it's customer no-service. I live in a rural area where there is little risk of having a package stolen. About 2 years ago the driver misdelivered a package to another house, saying he had delivered it to my house. The package was never recovered and I filed a claim. I then discovered that if a claim is ever filed for a lost package to an address, UPS policy is to always require a signature at that address, and it can never be changed. The nearest UPS station is a 45 minute drive, so now I have to drive 1 1/2 hours any time someone sends a package to me via UPS. To make matters worse, when I know a package is due to come, I will make an effort to be home to get it. But since we are so far in the boonies, the driver will log that he attempted delivery, but not bother to drive all the way out to my house to actually make an attempt. I hate UPS. End of rant. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130705#130705 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:06 AM PST US From: "Bruno M." Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 empenage aluminum sheets Hi all, Empenage form blocks are done, i wish to know if somebody could suggest the minimum quantity of alminum sheets i need to buy (.016, .025, ecc.) to build just the rudder, elevator and stabilizer. Thanks Best Regards, Bruno ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:43 AM PST US From: "R.D.(Ron) Leclerc" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: type IV vw engine Hey Bill... I will be using a 914 Type 4 2056cc with a redrive in my 701... with a mild cam upgrade and reworked heads. I have a lot of info on this engine. The type 4 was used in a lot of KR's. R.D.(Ron) Leclerc CH701 Plans(Scrap) Builder Porsche Power Belted Redrive Winnipeg, MB Canada infow@mts.net 8/24/2007 7:27:40 AM *************************************** This E-Mail scanned with AVG Anti-Virus Ver: 7.5! *************************************** :-[ has or is anyone useing a type iv vw engine on the zenair or any :-[ other plane? i am thinking of one with a redrive and would like :-[ any info you may have. thanks bill :-[ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List _- :-[ =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:33 AM PST US From: Debo Cox Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sheet Metal Supplier in Hampton Roads VA Area? Thanks Glenn. I'd appreciate that. Debo Cox Nags Head, NC Do Not Archive GLJSOJ1 wrote: I'M A KIT BUILDER IN CHESAPEAKE SO I'LL ASK AROUND AT THE NEXT EAA METTING GLENN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130694#130694 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:58 AM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: Zenith-List: FWD [RAA-N] raa events do not archive RAA Events: August 25th, Ayton ON RAA member Don Caldwell has sold his farm with airstrip, and is now having an auction of his aircraft and other items before moving abroad. Sale includes: Two Zenith CH300 projects 30% completed, excellent workmanship, formers and plans, 6 full sheets 4 x 12 of Alcoa alclad 6061T6 and 1 sheet of 2024T3, 0320 cylinders complete, C85 cylinders complete, EAAs Sport Aviation magazines from 19722003(most issues),24 volume world war 2 Encylopedia, Cessna 152 and 172 operators manuals, Also newer household appliances and furniture, shop and farm items. Saturday 10:00 am August 25 /07 Ayton Ontario Flying N. 44 03 W.80 51, 2,100 turf Driving 212106 Grey Road 9, 4 miles east of Ayton 519-665-2496 August 26th Guelph area Another Zenith 701 world tour. This Sunday the intrepid band of 701's will set out from Guelph, or will meet in the air just north, to fly to Collingwood for breakfast. Non-701's are welcome too, as long as they can keep up with this fast bunch. Contact paul.bevilacqua@sympatico.ca ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:24 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design David, I have an XL with the dual stick option. The outboard bearing brackets for the system have holes in them for fuel line support. In these holes, I mounted a AN bulkhead fitting. The inboard side is connected to the fuel selector with braided fuel line. I installed a hose barb fitting on the outboard side. When I attach my wings, I will route the ZAC-furnished rubber hose from the fuel tank, thru the side skin and to this hose barb. In that location, the connection, with a clamp, will be real easy to make. That is about as close to a quick disconnect as I want to be. Jay in Dallas David Wright wrote: > >Ron > >I am more or less at the same stage as you are - I was considering >quick disconnects at each wing root - any thoughts on these? > >Dave Wright >Washington UK >601XL Wings, Scratchbuild > >On 24 Aug 2007, at 03:28, Ron Lendon wrote: > >> >> Craig, >> >> I have allowed for the pressure gage but hadn't thought about the >> flow. And yes it is a Corvair the WW way. I have been waiting >> for him to publish the 601 book but have gotten to the point I need >> to move forward. >> >> Got any pictures of the Andair Valve mounted? >> >> Thanks for the ideas. >> >> -------- >> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) >> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130646#130646 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:29 AM PST US From: Ryan Vechinski Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages John, I'm glad you got your Tivo back, and I'm glad you got the guy! By the way, I see you're making some nice progress on the plane! Ryan h-list@matronics.comSubject: Zenith-List: Slightly off topic: Lost and stol en packagesWe all get packages delivered to us full of clecos, Homebuilt He lp DVDs or other parts, and normally nothing goes wrong.This week UPS left a package on my doorstep without taking a signature. It turns out that this step is discretionary to the driver. As a result the package was stolen. A nyway, I was able to recover my package with the help of the Police.It's a long story, and I have it recounted here: http://701builder.livejournal.com / In other news my fuselage kit is being delivered tomorrow. Let's see them try to steal that!Happy building!-- John Marzullihttp://701Builder.blogspo t.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.-Airplane The Movie ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:33 AM PST US From: John C Edwards Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VGs on 701 Juan, Well said! I am one of those quiet but experienced pilots who decided long ago that there is nothing out there that can't be improved upon. It is the spirit of Americans after all , isn't it... I started my project at kitlog.com/kapowsin about six months ago and from the get-go ordered it without the leading edge of the wings cut for slats. I have heard all of your various viewpoints and appreciate the input. I bought into the 701 because of the slats and really like the way it flies with slats, but love the advatages VG's add to it! Thanks again , John E in Kapowsin ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:34 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages I have to agree, Steve. UPS has put a LOT of 'discretion' into the drivers hands; an unscrupulous driver will find it easy to do what you describe, and the repercussions for an honest driver for an honest mistake are dear. At my workplace, we use UPS extensively and I have found over the past year the volume of misdelivered packages has gone up. Since we do not insure EVERY package (too expensive) and basic UPS liability is limited to $100...IF they admit a misdelivery (and that's a big "IF")....and IF we want to go through the UPS claims process.....well, it's just not worth it. We end up taking a big hit for misdelivered packages and we will usually re-ship the order to make a customer happy and hope UPS can retrieve the misdelivered package...and if not, we take the loss. But I can tell you we tell every customer that it is a UPS issue and to put pressure on thier regional manager to improve customer service on the local level. To be fair, I don't see FedEx Ground as an answer. either...... In a message dated 8/24/2007 7:32:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" I have the opposite problem to what you describe, and I refuse to use UPS if I can help it. This is a bit of a rant, but I have really had it with UPS and it's customer no-service. I live in a rural area where there is little risk of having a package stolen. About 2 years ago the driver misdelivered a package to another house, saying he had delivered it to my house. The package was never recovered and I filed a claim. I then discovered that if a claim is ever filed for a lost package to an address, UPS policy is to always require a signature at that address, and it can never be changed. The nearest UPS station is a 45 minute drive, so now I have to drive 1 1/2 hours any time someone sends a package to me via UPS. To make matters worse, when I know a package is due to come, I will make an effort to be home to get it. But since we are so far in the boonies, the driver will log that he attempted delivery, but not bother to drive all the way out to my house to actually make a a ttempt. I hate UPS. End of rant. http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:21 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount The greatest order of magnitude I've witnessed among my friends was six pitchers of draught at a sports bar. My friends love cold alcohol in magnitudinous quantities. Dred Do Not Archive ---- Craig Payne wrote: > > mm - what's an order of magnitude among friends? ;-) > > -- Craig ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:47 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 07/25/07 What you have just witnessed is an example of Cyber-Touret's Syndrome. The vistim will just abruptly type out a disjointed word or phrase without preambleor contextual linkage. On that subject, why is it that Touret's sufferers never blurt out compliments like, "Really nice shoes!" ? Just wondering... Dred Do Not Archive ---- Juan Vega wrote: > > all, > on this subject, below, did someone just have a war induced flash back while typing on the computer.? > > -----Original Message----- > >From: paulrod36@msn.com > >Sent: Aug 23, 2007 2:27 PM > >To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 07/25/07 > > > >OOOoookaaaaaaayyy. Rich, I've been advocating that sort of thing since 1967, when I was an exchange student observing the Greater Southeast Asia Gunpowder Festival. I think it's a great idea, in general. But how do this relate to building Zeniths? > > > >Paul Rodriguez > >do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Richard Brantley > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:28 PM > > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 07/25/07 > > > > > > > > Let's kill all the bastards and let God sort it out!!! Best use of nukes for > > peace I can think of -- I don't think our kids have the balls for IT!! > > > > Richard ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:46 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: weight & balance with one scale? Averaging only enters in if you decide to do three weighings rotating the scales each time. You just need to know a reliable weight for each main and for the nosewheel, empty of fuel and non-essential gadgets with the plane as level as possible (upper longerons are the reference) and no sideways stress on the wheels. Then plug the figures into the W&B formula, assuming you already have that. Does that help any? Dred ---- Juan Vega wrote: > > Gig, > i am in the process of getting ready for weight and bal as well. when you do the three scals, do you take the average of the three? hows that work? I have the work sheets with the arms but the weight things i am needing of some pip slapping to understand. > > Juan > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Gig Giacona > >Sent: Aug 23, 2007 2:31 PM > >To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: weight & balance with one scale? > > > > > >Ok her's the plan. Go to Wal-Mart or Home Depot and get 3 of the best analog scales you can find. > > > >Then go do the weight and balance and then return the scales. Here's the clincher. Tell them they didn't go high enough for your wife to use. > > > >I'll bet they hand you your money back and not say a word. > > > >-------- > >W.R. "Gig" Giacona > >601XL Under Construction > >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > > > > > > > >Read this topic online here: > > > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130552#130552 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:40 AM PST US From: Jerry Hey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VGs on 701 The impression I get is that the slats improve STOL performance when taking off i.e. high power settings- prop wash. However, when landing with low or idle power below 50 mph a 701 with slats will sink rapidly and the elevator may lack the authority to pick up the nose. The claim is that eliminating the slats and adding VGs to the wing and elevator restores elevator authority. I am keeping an open mind. I would like to hear from veteran 701 pilots about power off, low speed approaches and high sink rates. P.S. My last airplane, a Tailwind, would not stall until about 50 mph, but sank heavily if the air speed fell below 80 mph. All Tailwind pilots know to maintain 80mph to the flair or face a gear bending collision with the runway. Thanks Jerry On Aug 24, 2007, at 9:15 AM, John C Edwards wrote: > > > Juan, > > Well said! I am one of those quiet but experienced pilots who > decided long ago that there is nothing out there that can't be > improved upon. It is the spirit of Americans after all , isn't it... > > I started my project at kitlog.com/kapowsin about six months ago > and from the get-go ordered it without the leading edge of the > wings cut for slats. > > I have heard all of your various viewpoints and appreciate the input. > I bought into the 701 because of the slats and really like the way > it flies with slats, but love the advatages VG's add to it! > > Thanks again , > > John E in Kapowsin > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:18 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: weight & balance with one scale? yep, awesome thanx. juan -----Original Message----- >From: dredmoody@cox.net >Sent: Aug 24, 2007 9:51 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: weight & balance with one scale? > > >Averaging only enters in if you decide to do three weighings rotating the scales each time. You just need to know a reliable weight for each main and for the nosewheel, empty of fuel and non-essential gadgets with the plane as level as possible (upper longerons are the reference) and no sideways stress on the wheels. Then plug the figures into the W&B formula, assuming you already have that. > >Does that help any? > >Dred > >---- Juan Vega wrote: >> >> Gig, >> i am in the process of getting ready for weight and bal as well. when you do the three scals, do you take the average of the three? hows that work? I have the work sheets with the arms but the weight things i am needing of some pip slapping to understand. >> >> Juan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: Gig Giacona >> >Sent: Aug 23, 2007 2:31 PM >> >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: weight & balance with one scale? >> > >> > >> >Ok her's the plan. Go to Wal-Mart or Home Depot and get 3 of the best analog scales you can find. >> > >> >Then go do the weight and balance and then return the scales. Here's the clincher. Tell them they didn't go high enough for your wife to use. >> > >> >I'll bet they hand you your money back and not say a word. >> > >> >-------- >> >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >> >601XL Under Construction >> >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Read this topic online here: >> > >> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130552#130552 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:06 AM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages Steve, I have the same experience except with FedEX. We also live in the boonies and the after one attempt to deliver, we have to travel about the same 45 min to the nearest FedEx depot. In our area the FedEx home delivery is subbed out to private contractors and they get paid very little per package so they don't want to waste time. I have everything I can delivered by UPS, the route driver Tony has delivered so much stuff for my plane and a bus RV conversion that he claims to have delivered all the parts for it. Tony will leave my packages in the garage if we are not home. The trick is to get to know the driver. Bob Spudis In a message dated 8/24/2007 8:32:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" I have the opposite problem to what you describe, and I refuse to use UPS if I can help it. This is a bit of a rant, but I have really had it with UPS and it's customer no-service. I live in a rural area where there is little risk of having a package stolen. About 2 years ago the driver misdelivered a package to another house, saying he had delivered it to my house. The package was never recovered and I filed a claim. I then discovered that if a claim is ever filed for a lost package to an address, UPS policy is to always require a signature at that address, and it can never be changed. The nearest UPS station is a 45 minute drive, so now I have to drive 1 1/2 hours any time someone sends a package to me via UPS. To make matters worse, when I know a package is due to come, I will make an effort to be home to get it. But since we are so far in the boonies, the driver will log that he attempted delivery, but not bother to drive all the way out to my house to actually make an a! ttempt. I hate UPS. End of rant. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130705#130705 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS From: "rickpitcher" charlesmcg(at)citlink.net wrote: > Having acquired a partially complete 601 HDS kit, which I intend to > complete as an E-LSA, I would like to hear comments on the broad > question below! > > How do the Subaru and Corvair engines stack up against Rotax & Jabiru > when you take cost, installation, available technical support, weight > and final performance into account? And are there any 601 builders > reasonably close to Sacramento, CA? > > Sincerely > > -- > Charles McGloughlin Email - charlesmcg@citlink.net > 8654 Bluefield Way Phones - Cell (916)832-0654 > Sacramento, CA 95823 Home (916)689-7701 I went through the same thing a few years ago when it was time to pick a powerplant. So many choices it's hard to decide which one to use. You have to decide if you want the max performance or the lowest initial price. I ended up going with the Jabiru 3300. It's the lightest of the group, and the most horsepower. I'm happy with the choice. The auto conversions are really inviting because of their lower cost and familiarity, but by the time you add the PSRU the extra weight and $$$ starts to add up. You might wish later that you'd spent a couple thousand more for a lighter/stronger powerplant in the first place. You're going to have to come in on the lightweight side if you want those little HDS wings to be meet LSA stall speeds. While you're building and contemplating "improvements", remember the homebuilder's adage: "Add only lightness and simplicity". Rick Pitcher CH601HD (considering another build...) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130767#130767 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:10 AM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VGs on 701 Jerry, I can attest to high sink rates at idle below 45 mph. I haven't really found lack of elevator authority though. You definitely need a fair amount of power with a high attitude and slats, it will literally hang on the prop. My last BFR a few weeks ago,my instructor wanted to fly in the 701 and see what it would do. He had me fly hands off using rudder only, right to the airport, do an engine out 180 degree turn to see how much altitude you loose to see if you could make it back to the runway, pull the power near the airport and do an engine out right to the ground. The plane performed well, you need to keep you speed up and fly it right to a few feet above the ground before flaring. Someday I would like to remove the slats and try some VG's, but for now I am having a blast. Bob Spudis N701ZX In a message dated 8/24/2007 10:03:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jerryhey@earthlink.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jerry Hey The impression I get is that the slats improve STOL performance when taking off i.e. high power settings- prop wash. However, when landing with low or idle power below 50 mph a 701 with slats will sink rapidly and the elevator may lack the authority to pick up the nose. The claim is that eliminating the slats and adding VGs to the wing and elevator restores elevator authority. I am keeping an open mind. I would like to hear from veteran 701 pilots about power off, low speed approaches and high sink rates. http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS From: "Gig Giacona" And just to reduce possible future confusion there isn't a need for a PSRU on the Corvair auto coversion. rickpitcher wrote: > > The auto conversions are really inviting because of their lower cost and familiarity, but by the time you add the PSRU the extra weight and $$$ starts to add up. You might wish later that you'd spent a couple thousand more for a lighter/stronger powerplant in the first place. > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130770#130770 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:59 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CANOPY FLASHING Glenn, I think the entire front flashing should be positioned inboard of the front top skin so no slots need to be cut. The front top skin should fit over the flashing, over the combination canopy hinge and upper motor mount bracket, and even over the canopy hinge bolt. If you need some photos, email me back off list, but there are decent photos in the assembly guide that should help you. Dred ---- GLJSOJ1 wrote: > > HI ALL > > I AM NOW WORKING ON THE FLASHING ON THE FRONT OF THE CANOPY RAILS. BEST I CAN TELL THESE ARE TO SLIDE UNDER THE TOP SKIN WHEN THE CANOPY IS OPENED. FOR PILOTS SIDE I CAN DO THIS IF I CUT A SLOT JUST ABOUVE THE BEND, BUT THE OTHER SIDE IS ANOTHER 1/8 INCH OUTBOARD. SEEMS LIKE I CAN HAVE IT GO OUTSIDE THE TOP SKIN AND JUST LET THE RUBBER SEAL SLIDE OVER THE SKIN. > > THANKS > GLENN > > THANKS ALSO FOR THE IDEAS FOR THE SCREWS IN THE SIDE FLASHING. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130692#130692 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:59 AM PST US From: "hillsgun" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages I agree that you need to get to know the driver and sometimes the terminal personnel. I have had problems with some ups drivers, but my regular driver is as good as gold. I picked up quite a few packages from the terminal for quite a while and once they got to know me there they were great. The once handed me a package (self sealing bubble envelope) and it felt light to me. I checked it and not only was it empty, but the vendor had not even pealed the self seal strip off the package. Obviously the vendors fault. UPS called while I was standing there. Told the vendor to send me another next day air and that UPS would cover all expenses (shipping and the part). GREAT SERVICE. I am not affiliated with them in any way, and don't ship or receive a large amount of items. I just take the time to get to know the carrier, try and be pleasant to the personnel, and know there system of operation, and usually they will try and work with me. I have found this to work with the post office as well. Back to the adage about more flies with honey. Dan _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of NYTerminat@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 7:58 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages Steve, I have the same experience except with FedEX. We also live in the boonies and the after one attempt to deliver, we have to travel about the same 45 min to the nearest FedEx depot. In our area the FedEx home delivery is subbed out to private contractors and they get paid very little per package so they don't want to waste time. I have everything I can delivered by UPS, the route driver Tony has delivered so much stuff for my plane and a bus RV conversion that he claims to have delivered all the parts for it. Tony will leave my packages in the garage if we are not home. The trick is to get to know the driver. Bob Spudis In a message dated 8/24/2007 8:32:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com writes: I have the opposite problem to what you describe, and I refuse to use UPS if I can help it. This is a bit of a rant, but I have really had it with UPS and it's customer no-service. I live in a rural area where there is little risk of having a package stolen. About 2 years ago the driver misdelivered a package to another house, saying he had delivered it to my house. The package was never recovered and I filed a claim. I then discovered that if a claim is ever filed for a lost package to an address, UPS policy is to always require a signature at that address, and it can never be changed. The nearest UPS station is a 45 minute drive, so now I have to drive 1 1/2 hours any time someone sends a package to me via UPS. To make matters worse, when I know a package is due to come, I will make an effort to be home to get it. But since we are so far in the boonies, the driver will log that he attempted delivery, but not bother to drive all the way out to my house to actually make an a! ttempt. I hate UPS. End of rant. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130705#130705 bsp; --> ===================== _____ . ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Choice of engine for the CH 601HDS From: "rickpitcher" Gig Giacona wrote: > And just to reduce possible future confusion there isn't a need for a PSRU on the Corvair auto coversion. > > > rickpitcher wrote: > > > > The auto conversions are really inviting because of their lower cost and familiarity, but by the time you add the PSRU the extra weight and $$$ starts to add up. You might wish later that you'd spent a couple thousand more for a lighter/stronger powerplant in the first place. > > > Yes. Gig is absolutely correct. There are some excellent auto conversions aout there. the Corvair has been a popular choice for 3 decades now. Very well suited to aircraft use. The Subaru was the auto engine conversion that I almost went for. I REALLY wanted to find a fuel injected Honda conversion but was surprised to find very few Honda powered airplanes. My choice was made when I found a "new in the crate" Jabiru 3300 a few hundred miles nor'east across the mighty Colorado River for a very decent price. A lucky break :) Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130779#130779 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:32 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: VGs on 701 From: "Avidmagnum" I went flying a couple days ago with my 20,000+ hour CFI for by BFR. The last BFR we flew with the slats and he thought the aircraft flew OK as he put it. With the slats off he said it flew much nicer. The handling is just that much better. My 701 is on amphibious floats with a 912s. He had such a good time in the 701 he said he hated to charge me! The nice thing about Experimental Aircraft is just that....they are experimental! For those that love the slats...leave them alone! For those that are not sure.....experiment....you are only out a little on the price of the VG's. (The ones for my Cessna 170A were $1450...one reason that I only own home builts now!) And you can remove the vg's and put the slats back on....no problem. I love looking at JG's web site and enjoy our back and forth e-mails. He seems to love what he does! Please keep new ideas coming. I'll look and then "take them or leave them" In my case.... with my situation....I'd have sold my 701 and got a different float plane if the idea to remove the slats would not have been posted here. Thanks!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130786#130786 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:03 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount From: "Tim Juhl" Just to be sure I understand you correcly..... The measurements you provided were of the original mount that was "too long", correct? Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130793#130793 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:36 AM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VGs to Z.A.C. Dear John Gilpin: If you know so much about aircraft design why do you not start your own company and leave those of us that like the CH701 just the way it is alone. You and many others seem to completely miss the fact that the CH701 uses a slotted airfoil, the slats are not an add-on. VGs are an add-on to make a poorly performing airfoil work better. Adding VGs in place of the slotted portion of the CH701 airfoil merely replaces some of the performance lost. John Read Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:43 AM PST US From: "john H" Subject: Zenith-List: 601HD to HDS I've been flying my 601HD-912ul for about 3 years now. It is a great little plane and fun to fly most of the time. However living in the mountains of southwest VA it can be pretty turbulent sometimes. I've been thinking about possibly switching out to HDS wings hoping that the higher wing loading would smooth out some of the bumps. Anyone out there that has made the switch have any pros or cons or would there even be that much difference? I'm guessing the another plus may be about a 10mph increase in cruise speed. Thanks in advance John _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:58 AM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:VG's on 701 I hope this discussion about VG's never ends. I'm learning lots. Thank you JG. Do not archive Bob XL/Lyc ************************************** all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:02 AM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601HD to HDS John, I replaced my HD wings with HDS some years ago. You are right on both counts - extra cruise speed and significantly less bumpy. But, in very hot moist air and 80 hp Rotax, with two 200 lbs people on board it barely "gets up on the step". I can cruise 120 mph with one up, but with two I'm down to 110 to 112 mph. With the HD wings I cruised at 95 mph with two up. Recently added VGs by John Gilpin. Dropped the stall and landing speeds back to where they were with the HDs with no loss of cruise speed. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:07 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Slightly off topic: Lost and stolen packages From: "steveadams" hillsgun(at)nwinfo.net wrote: > I agree that you need to get to know the driver and sometimes the terminal personnel. I have had problems with some ups drivers, but my regular driver is as good as gold. I picked up quite a few packages from the terminal for quite a while and once they got to know me there they were great. The once handed me a package (self sealing bubble envelope) and it felt light to me. I checked it and not only was it empty, but the vendor had not even pealed the self seal strip off the package. Obviously the vendors fault. UPS called while I was standing there. Told the vendor to send me another next day air and that UPS would cover all expenses (shipping and the part). GREAT SERVICE. I am not affiliated with them in any way, and dont ship or receive a large amount of items. I just take the time to get to know the carrier, try and be pleasant to the personnel, and know there system of operation, and usually they will try and work with me. I have found this to work with the post office as well. Back to the adage about more flies with honey. Dan > > [/b][b] I don't blame the current driver, the package was "lost" by another driver covering his route who was not familiar with the area. His having to drive out to my place 3 times fully expecting me not to be there takes a serious bite out of his time. I know the folks at the terminal better than I would like, they bring my package up to the counter when they see me drive in the gate so it's there when I walk in. Yet the local terminal management say they can't change the signature requirement. I call customer service and they say that only the local terminal can change the requirement. I've gone around and around in circles for almost 2 years, and after a number of outright lies, shuffling blame, and a lot of frustration, I ran out of honey a while ago. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130819#130819 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:54 AM PST US From: Robert Schoenberger Subject: Zenith-List: Stolen or lost packages List . . . Seems to me I signed a written release for Fed Ex a couple of years ago giving them permission to leave the packages without signature. Same with UPS. We're pretty smart people - can't you devise some sort of container like a street mailbox into which these folk can deposit the package? Most of the libraries up this way have return boxes like this. Also a twenty spot at Christmas works wonders with these nice service people. Robert Schoenberger 701 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:02 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount > Just to be sure I understand you correctly..... The measurements you provided were of the original mount that was "too long", correct? Yup, those are the measurements of my bad mount, the one that tilts the engine's nose down about 2 degrees too much. That would make sense if (as Jabiru USA says) the top tubes are 10 mm too long. I never got around to checking the side angle. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:43 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VGs to Z.A.C. John, If you don't like the tread, hit the delete button. I find the tread interesting. Bob Spudis In a message dated 8/24/2007 1:34:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, JohnDRead@aol.com writes: Dear John Gilpin: If you know so much about aircraft design why do you not start your own company and leave those of us that like the CH701 just the way it is alone. You and many others seem to completely miss the fact that the CH701 uses a slotted airfoil, the slats are not an add-on. VGs are an add-on to make a poorly performing airfoil work better. Adding VGs in place of the slotted portion of the CH701 airfoil merely replaces some of the performance lost. John Read Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:09 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stolen or lost packages So, I'm sitting at home right now waiting for my fuselage kit, and that is turning into another story! I'm pretty sure that 9am to Noon on Friday the 24th does not means "Oh, something has come up, we can't deliver today, and we can't tell you why we can't complete the delivery". Yellow is doing a fantastic job try to fix the situation and is putting pressure on the local delivery contractor to make good on their promise. The blame falls squarely on Sunshine Shipping for not making a delivery that was scheduled well over a week ago and reconfirmed yesterday. ... but I digress. But the thought of making a trap door for packages did cross my mind many times over the week. The problem is once you get to a device that accepts anything bigger than a toaster you are leaving enough room that the door can no longer effectively be one way. Oh yeah, DO NOT ARCHIVE. On 8/24/07, Robert Schoenberger wrote: > > hrs1@frontiernet.net> > > List . . . Seems to me I signed a written release for Fed Ex a couple of > years ago giving them permission to leave the packages without > signature. Same with UPS. We're pretty smart people - can't you devise > some sort of container like a street mailbox into which these folk can > deposit the package? Most of the libraries up this way have return > boxes like this. Also a twenty spot at Christmas works wonders with > these nice service people. Robert Schoenberger 701 > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:42 PM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stolen or lost packages My UPS Driver has a key to my hangar. He calls me at the office whenever he leaves a package at the hangar. He gets a bottle of scotch for Christmas and on his birthday. Carroll do not archive http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Builders Log CD From: dhmacp@maqs.net Can anyone suggest a company that sells a CD Builders Log? Just beginning my 601XL. Dave Mac Pherson dhmacp@maqs.net do not archieve ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:13 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Builders Log CD From: "hansriet" I don't know that software, but have you checked out www.expercraft.com. It might give you what you want. Hans Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130850#130850 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:09 PM PST US From: Bob Percival Subject: Zenith-List: somewhat off topic - Purchasing an incomplete homebuilt I looked at CH601HD project, recently advertised here, and have a couple of questions about purchasing a work in progress: 1 - Is it possible to be the A&P for a purchased project? I seem to recall that this honor can be bestowed on the original builder and I wonder if it is applicable to someone who finishes a project. 2 - What must be done to satisfy the FAA that you meet the 51% rule? Thx Bob Percival bob@frontrange-pc.com CH701 scratch builder - glacial pace ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:19 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 07/25/07 Nice &&#*&*!*#*@* ing shoes, Dred.=0A=0APaul R =0Ado not arch ive=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A From: dredmoody@cox.ne t =0A To: zenith-list@matronics.com =0A Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8: 45 AM=0A Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs dmoody@cox.net>=0A=0A What you have j ust witnessed is an example of Cyber-Touret's Syndrome. The vistim wil l just abruptly type out a disjointed word or phrase without preambleo r contextual linkage.=0A=0A On that subject, why is it that Tou ret's sufferers never blurt out compliments like, "Really nice shoes!" ? Just wondering...=0A=0A Dred=0A Do Not Archive=0A =0A ---- Juan Vega > =0A > =0A > all, =0A > on this subject, below, did someone ju st have a war induced flash back while typing on the computer.?=0A > =0A > -----Original Message-----=0A > >From: paulrod36@msn. com=0A > >Sent: Aug 23, 2007 2:27 PM =0A > >To: zenith-list@matronics.com=0A > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 07/25/07=0A > >=0A > >OOOoookaaaaaaayyy. Rich, I've be en advocating that sort of thing since 1967, when I was an exchange st udent observing the Greater Southeast Asia Gunpowder Festival. I think it's a great idea, in general. But how do this relate to building Zen iths?=0A > >=0A > >Paul Rodriguez=0A > >do not archive =0A > > ----- Original Message ----- =0A > > From: Richard Bran tley> =0A > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com> =0A > > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:28 PM=0A > > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 07/25/07=0A rd Brantley" >>=0A > >=0A > > Let's kill all the bastards and let God sort it out!!! Best use of nukes for =0A > > peace I can think of -- I don't th ink our kids have the balls for IT!!=0A > >=0A > > Richard ======================= ======================= ======================= ======================= ======================= ===0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:20 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Flap Indicator While staring at Surplus's inexpensive flap motor, it struck me I hadn't thought any further about an indicator than putting painted lines on the left flap. Then my devious mind took over. Has anyone used an extra fuel quantity sender, and a re-painted VDO fuel gauge to serve as an indicator? Seems to me that replacing the float with an appropriate length of stiff wire riding in some sort of clip ought to do the job. Any thoughts on this? Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:49 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Stolen or lost packages Sunshine Shipping...?.?..Coupla years back I ordered a pool table as a Christmas gift for son & his family. Sunshine confirmed several times to "make sure someone would be home" in the days leading up to delivery. Before "Noon" turned into calls being placed untiil 6pm when they called back & advised that it would in the next few days. Truck arrived two days later at 4:30p with the boxed table & a forklift hole in the side and a gouge larger than that on the Shuttle visable thru the open cardboard. The company I placed the order with took it back but advised "We no longer carry that table". Think I finally got "a" table to them in June. Have delt with Van's & Yellow, both did the job as promised. KABONG Do Not Archive >Yellow is doing a fantastic job try to fix the situation and is putting pressure on the local delivery contractor to make good on their promise. The blame falls squarely on Sunshine Shipping for not making a delivery that was scheduled well over a week ago and reconfirmed yesterday. ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:32 PM PST US From: "JG" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VGs on 701 For those who have tried to access the www.stolspeed.com website recently, the provider was changing servers, so all the new links and photos were missing. Try again now for details on the Longer Wing and some photos of STOL flying in the Australian outback. Tailwinds always, JG ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:35 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flap Indicator It would work, so would a position indicator and led display from the ray allen company. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paulrod36@msn.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 7:35 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Flap Indicator While staring at Surplus's inexpensive flap motor, it struck me I hadn't thought any further about an indicator than putting painted lines on the left flap. Then my devious mind took over. Has anyone used an extra fuel quantity sender, and a re-painted VDO fuel gauge to serve as an indicator? Seems to me that replacing the float with an appropriate length of stiff wire riding in some sort of clip ought to do the job. Any thoughts on this? Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 8/23/2007 4:04 PM 8/23/2007 4:04 PM ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:46 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Stolen or Lost packages I had a deal with FedEx 4 or 5 months ago. I almost tripped over a package on the front porch. It contained bottles of wine that I did not order. Despite being stamped and labeled in three places that an adult signature was required, no attempt was made to knock on the door and ask me to sign for it. You bet I complained. Not an easy thing to do with FedEx. BTW, who needs to order wine when WalMart is nearby? I suspect kids ordered it. Do not archive Bob XL/Lyc ************************************** all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:29 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: New surface pretreatment product called PreKote From: "David X" Anyone had any experience with this product: http://www.pantheonchemical.com/prekote.htm It seems like it would save a lot of time, some money and avoid a lot of nasty chemicals. -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130876#130876 ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:19 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Indicator Hi Paul That sounds like a great idea. If you are using an EFIS you can probably just plug the sensor into the EFIS to get a readout. My approach is a little different. I have designed (but not yet completed) a magnetic switch sensor to tell me when I have 10 degrees of flaps. It will light a panel LED to indicate that. I can depend on the limit switches to set the flaps to 0 and max. You might want to contact your EFIS/EIS vendor and see if they can suggest a sensor that will easily plug into their display box. That might be a quicker and easier solution than the fuel sender approach. Paul XL fuselage At 04:34 PM 8/24/2007, you wrote: >While staring at Surplus's inexpensive flap motor, it struck me I >hadn't thought any further about an indicator than putting painted >lines on the left flap. Then my devious mind took over. Has anyone >used an extra fuel quantity sender, and a re-painted VDO fuel gauge >to serve as an indicator? Seems to me that replacing the float with >an appropriate length of stiff wire riding in some sort of clip >ought to do the job. Any thoughts on this? > >Paul Rodriguez >601XL/Corvair > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:27 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: somewhat off topic - Purchasing an incomplete homebuilt As far as the 51% rule is concerned, you only have to accomplish 51% of the various tasks needed to build the airplane, you don't have to actually build 51% of the airplane. For instance, if you build one wing, that demonstrates the skills necessary to build a wing. Then you could hire someone to complete the other wing if you wanted to. Actually, just building the rudder would probably be enough to demonstrate the necessary sheet metal skills for the entire project. I believe the EAA website has a sort of check list for the tasks needed to satisfy the 51% rule. The repairman certificate can only go to one person per airplane -- the primary builder. This term is not well defined. If someone else started the project and you bought the incomplete and did the necessary work to finish it and get it airworthy, you will probably have no trouble getting the repairman certificate, especially if you are able to show compliance with the 51% rule. On Aug 24, 2007, at 6:42 PM, Bob Percival wrote: > pc.com> > > I looked at CH601HD project, recently advertised here, and have a > couple of questions about purchasing a work in progress: > > 1 - Is it possible to be the A&P for a purchased project? I seem to > recall that this honor can be bestowed on the original builder and > I wonder if it is applicable to someone who finishes a project. > > 2 - What must be done to satisfy the FAA that you meet the 51% rule? > > Thx > > Bob Percival > bob@frontrange-pc.com > CH701 scratch builder - glacial pace > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:56 PM PST US From: "Matt & Jo" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design That is from my web site. http://www.zodiacxl.com/Brake%20and%20Fuel%20system.htm I wasn't happy with the location up on the panel. So I moved it low to keep a pressure head on the valve. It works fine. Cheers Matt www.zodiacxl.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design >> Got any pictures of the Andair Valve mounted? > > Mine is still mounted in its box. But I've attached pictures of somebody > else's installation. Unfortunately I've lost track of whose plane it is. > > -- Craig > ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Builders Log CD From: "Ron Lendon" Using Kitlog Pro 2.0. Works for me. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130900#130900 ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Builders Log CD From: "Matt Dralle" You should check out our Kitlog Pro software. There is a free 15 day evaluation version downloadable from the web site and if you like it you can register it for $49.95. Kitlog comes with a nice automatic web site building feature and your logs can be displayed on the www.mykitlog.com site with the click of a button. Probably the most significant feature of Kitlog, however, is the fact that your building database is stored locally on YOUR computer. Only a copy is stored on the MyKitlog web site. Your precious log entries are safe on your computer no matter what the long term status of the Kitlog Pro company is. This is a pretty important aspect, in my mind. I've been working on my RV-4 for about 17 years now and that's a long time to expect a free web site to keep my records around. Anyway, check out Kitlog Pro. I think you'll like it. Main Site: Kitbuilders Site: Evaluation Dowload: Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics / Kitlog Pro -------- Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130905#130905 ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:34 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design From: "Ron Lendon" Craig and others, Added a Floscan 210B to the design just down from the second pump, filter will come after that. It will connect right to the Dynon unit I plan to install. I don't see the need for a quick disconnect at the wings, once they go on I hope to keep them on. I am planing on using the Stainless Braided hose though and keeping all the pressure on the engine side of the firewall. The braided hose is much less likely to rupture if the worse thing happens. I am going to have to experiment with some clear line to decide about mounting the selector valve low. Thanks for all the feedback, keep it coming, -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130906#130906 ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:21 PM PST US From: "Danny Offill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design Matt what did you use to paint the inside of the fuselage with. It looks great. Danny -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt & Jo Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 9:02 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design That is from my web site. http://www.zodiacxl.com/Brake%20and%20Fuel%20system.htm I wasn't happy with the location up on the panel. So I moved it low to keep a pressure head on the valve. It works fine. Cheers Matt www.zodiacxl.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design >> Got any pictures of the Andair Valve mounted? > > Mine is still mounted in its box. But I've attached pictures of somebody > else's installation. Unfortunately I've lost track of whose plane it is. > > -- Craig > ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:06 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design > That is from my web site. Thanks, I'll make a note. BTW: Matt's site contains a link to a very good article on fuel systems that I've read in the past: www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/article/fuelsystemsforhomebuilts/fuelsystems.h tm -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.