---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/26/07: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:04 AM - Re: electrical design (george may) 2. 05:57 AM - Re: electrical design (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 3. 06:19 AM - Re: electrical design (Robin Bellach) 4. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: somewhat off topic - Purchasing an incomplete homebuilt (Bob Percival) 5. 08:42 AM - Re: electrical design (Edward Moody II) 6. 09:11 AM - Re: electrical design (Matt & Jo) 7. 09:24 AM - Re: electrical design (george may) 8. 09:51 AM - Oil Temps (wade jones) 9. 12:12 PM - Re: Fuel System Design (Ron Lendon) 10. 02:19 PM - 601XL Rear Spar Reinforcement Idea (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 11. 03:33 PM - Re: 601XL Rear Spar Reinforcement Idea (Jaybannist@cs.com) 12. 04:44 PM - Re: Oil Temps (n801bh@netzero.com) 13. 05:49 PM - Scott's XL? (Craig Payne) 14. 05:56 PM - Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount (Tim Juhl) 15. 06:04 PM - Re: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount (Craig Payne) 16. 06:08 PM - Re: Scott's XL? (Carlos Sa) 17. 10:49 PM - Re: Wheel pants speed (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:29 AM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: electrical design you might want to check out the exp2 buss at anywheremap.com/pdfs/BBATTech.pdf It eliminates a lot of wiring ,has a lot of features condensed into one place and is very convienent to use I have it on my system George May 601XL 912s 145 hours _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:35 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: electrical design George: Not a good link.... anywheremap.com/pdfs/BBATTech.pdf Please revise. Thank you Tracy Smith Do Not Archive In a message dated 8/26/2007 8:05:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" you might want to check out the exp2 buss at anywheremap.com/pdfs/BBATTech.pdf It eliminates a lot of wiring ,has a lot of features condensed into one place and is very convienent to use I have it on my system George May 601XL 912s 145 hours http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:15 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: electrical design Try http://www.anywheremap.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=4 ----- Original Message ----- From: Crvsecretary@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 7:55 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: electrical design George: Not a good link.... anywheremap.com/pdfs/BBATTech.pdf Please revise. Thank you Tracy Smith Do Not Archive In a message dated 8/26/2007 8:05:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM writes: you might want to check out the exp2 buss at anywheremap.com/pdfs/BBATTech.pdf It eliminates a lot of wiring ,has a lot of features condensed into one place and is very convienent to use I have it on my system George May 601XL 912s 145 hours ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:15 AM PST US From: Bob Percival Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: somewhat off topic - Purchasing an incomplete homebuilt Thanks Dan, The 601 in question is a plans project. The builder's approach was to fabricate the sheet metal parts for the entire project before riveting any of the sub-assemblies. The fab work is mostly done so it's really like buying a kit at this point. Based on what I've read I think I'd be in good shape for the amateur-built classification. Thanks again for you response! Bob txpilot wrote: > > Bob, > > The following is from AC 20-27F, Section 7g: > > (3) Buying an Aircraft Built From a Partially Completed Kit. If you buy an aircraft built from a partially completed kit, you should get all fabrication and assembly records, such as receipts for materials, the builders log, and aircraft, engine, and propeller logbooks, from the previous owner. You > should add the construction efforts of the previous amateur builders to your builders log to show the construction history of the kit. This information may help us to determine that your aircraft is eligible for amateur-built certification. > > This AC contains other information regarding the Repairman Certificate. Also, you might want to check AC 65-23A regarding the Repairman Certificate. Hope this helps. > > Best Regards, > > Dan Ginty > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131032#131032 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:59 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: electrical design There actually is a use for the split master in our 601/Jabiru application Jeff. The side that is intended to send power to the field of the alternator can be used instead to activate a continuous duty relay between the permanent magnet alternator's regulated output and the positive terminal of the battery. Serves the same purpose without any big drawbacks. Dred 3) If you are used to the Cessna master switch, it probably doesn't make sense with the single phase alternator. .. Jeff Davidson ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:50 AM PST US From: "Matt & Jo" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: electrical design I used a modified Z-16 from Aeroelectric. http://www.zodiacxl.com/Electrical.html I spent a lot of time researching and The Aeroelectric book is a valuable resource. Good Luck Matt www.zodiacxl.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris Sinfield" Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 4:57 PM Subject: Zenith-List: electrical design > > > Hi > Just starting to design the electrical system for my aircraft, rather than > reinvent the wheel I will just modify a working wheel to suit my needs. > > I will be having a Jab 3300, night VFR panel with Dynon D100 and analog > engine and fuel guages, Elec flaps, elec fuel pump and Nav strobe combo. > > Any one have a similar set up? > > I am going to buy the aero electric book as I am an A&P, not avionics. > > What Z diagrams are others using Z 20 for a starting point?or what? > > Thanks > Chris > Zodiac XL > Jab3300 > Do not archive.. [Question] > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131002#131002 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:11 AM PST US From: "george may" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: electrical design thanks Robin George May do not archive >From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> >To: >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: electrical design >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 08:18:21 -0500 > >Try http://www.anywheremap.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=4 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Crvsecretary@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 7:55 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: electrical design > > > George: > > Not a good link.... > > anywheremap.com/pdfs/BBATTech.pdf > > > Please revise. > > Thank you > > Tracy Smith > Do Not Archive > > > In a message dated 8/26/2007 8:05:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >gfmjr_20@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > you might want to check out the exp2 buss at > > anywheremap.com/pdfs/BBATTech.pdf > > It eliminates a lot of wiring ,has a lot of features condensed into >one > place and is very convienent to use > > I have it on my system > > George May > 601XL 912s 145 hours > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _________________________________________________________________ Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN Travel. http://travel.msn.com/Articles/aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:28 AM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Zenith-List: Oil Temps Hello group ,this is somewhat Zenith related at least to the Cont.0-200 powered people.When flying my 0200 Sonerai in this Texas heat my oil temps climb to the red line of 220 degrees and seems to stay there . Now my Tripacer with the 0320 Lyc. is red lined at 245 degrees .Sometimes I fly the Tripacer at 230 degrees 15 short of the red line .Both engines being built similar using the same type and weight of oil should I be concerned with the 0-200 say heating to slightly above the red line temp ,remember I am using the engine in an experimental . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:09 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel System Design From: "Ron Lendon" Send the pictures. Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote: > I can send you pics of the complete fuel system I installed for the corvair install if you need them? > > do not archive > > Jeff > > > -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131088#131088 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:03 PM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Rear Spar Reinforcement Idea Gang: There has been some concern about the unexpected in-flight failures of various 601XL's. As an experienced (Ph.D. + 25 years) aerospace engineer, I am tempted to brush these off as "cause unknowable" due [1]to the large number of unknown variables in construction, maintenance and operation of the accident aircraft, and [2] the lack of available data about the accidents themselves. That is my "official" opinion. A few people have asked me about this, however, so I took a good look at the 1/2 built wings in my garage. Knowing that the wings have passed static proof tests, I looked mainly for what you might call "less than optimal" design features, including places in the design where a reasonable error in construction might lead to a more serious condition. The only thing I found was that the clearance hole for the aileron pushrod is rather large and is located rather close to the rear spar lower flange. It would be easy during construction to make this hole closer to, or even touch the flange. Since the top and bottom of the spar carry the large part of the wing bending load, this *could* weaken the spar. NOTE: This is an analytical discussion, not support by experimental evidence. In engineering one often lacks complete data, and in those cases you look for ways to mitigate risk. If the cost of mitigating the risk is large, you may decide to do more extensive analysis or experimental testing. If the cost of mitigating the risk is small, however, you might just decide to go ahead and do the fix regardless. That is what I chose to do. So I cut a piece of .025 standard angle to a length will cover the three A5 rivet holes in the bottom flange on both sides of the aileron pushrod hole. I bent the piece to match the angle of the spar flange, then trimmed it to fit flush with the flange and also to clear the exit hole. Finally, I match drilled it to the spar, deburred and primed. Complete details and pictures of this "fix" are available on line at: http://members.cox.net/n601ge/drawings/rearspar.html This small doubler strap reinforces the flange in that section of the spar, and thereby helps transfer wing bending loads across the hole. It has many good characteristics: * It takes about an hour to make and install. * Installed, it is invisible. * It does not interfere with aileron operation. * It weighs approximately nothing. * It costs approximately nothing. * It can be easily retrofit to completed wings. and no bad ones that I know of, and therefore fits the requirements for risk mitigation, IMHO. So I'm putting them on my plane. If you think differently, please do not put them on your plane. If you think my analysis is flawed, please correspond with me off-group. All standard disclaimers apply, etc. FWIW, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:26 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Rear Spar Reinforcement Idea Andy, Your reinforcing looks reasonable. Just don't forget that, on the inboard part of this reinforced area, the flap hinge will go between the bottom skin and the bottom flange of the rear spar. And that hinge won't be riveted until much later. On my particular airplane, the drawings called for a 38mm hole, 20mm from the bottom of the bottom flange. That leaves less than 1mm between the hole and the flange. The hole was later changed to a 32mm dia., leaving about a 4mm clearance; which I suspect is what you have. I might measure the clearance between the flange and the control rod end to see if I can partially cover the hole with the reinforcing angle. Instead of trimming the vertical leg fo the doubler angle, I think I would only notch it (at the hole) and put some A4 rivets into the web of the spar to help resist buckling of the doubler angle. Just my 2 cents worth. Jay ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:05 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oil Temps This just my opinion..... I don't like to see oil temps below 210 and prefer mine to be about 230- 235 on climb out and drop to 220 or so during cruise. The formulation of premium oil now a days work better at elevated temps. I try not to even take off till I see 150 oil temps. There are several RV guys around her e who love to brag that their oil temps run under 180,,, Geez the stuff is not even thinned out properly yet at temps that low. Your mileage m ay vary.... do not archive Hello group ,this is somewhat Zenith related at least to the Cont.0-200 powered people.When flying my 0200 Sonerai in this Texas heat my oil tem ps climb to the red line of 220 degrees and seems to stay there . Now my Tripacer with the 0320 Lyc. is red lined at 245 degrees .Sometimes I fl y the Tripacer at 230 degrees 15 short of the red line .Both engines bei ng built similar using the same type and weight of oil should I be conce rned with the 0-200 say heating to slightly above the red line temp ,rem ember I am using the engine in an experimental . Wade Jones South T exas 601XL plans building ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== == ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:49 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: Scott's XL? I hesitate to ask but does anyone know the status of Scott Laughlin's 601XL project? The last update on his website was on May 27th and said he was ready for FAA inspection. Since then, nothing. It is such a beautiful plane it is hard to believe the inspector found much to complain about. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount From: "Tim Juhl" Checked my mount today..... my top tubes are about 10 mm shorter than yours so hopefully I've got a good one. Thanks for sharing your experience! Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131126#131126 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:48 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Out-of-spec 601XL/Jabiru 3300 motor mount > Checked my mount today..... my top tubes are about 10 mm shorter than yours so hopefully I've got a good one. Glad to hear it. Do you have any way to measure the angle of the plane defined by the disks at the back of the mounting pins relative to the plane defined by the plates that bolt to the firewall? That (and the angle of your firewall to the upper longerons) are the critical numbers. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:16 PM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scott's XL? Hi, Craig I exchanged a couple of notes with Scott a few weeks ago (early July). He said he was busy with non-aviation related issues, but would post a note after his first flight. I guess it didn't happen yet, for one reason or another. Carlos CH601-HD, plans do not archive On 26/08/07, Craig Payne wrote: > > > I hesitate to ask but does anyone know the status of Scott Laughlin's > 601XL > project? The last update on his website was on May 27th and said he was > ready for FAA inspection. Since then, nothing. It is such a beautiful > plane > it is hard to believe the inspector found much to complain about. > > -- Craig > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:17 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wheel pants speed C Smith wrote: --------------------------------- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Derfler Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 11:26 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Wheel pants speed * IF you are not the "mechanic", " certificate holder" etc (depending on the class) and can't take off your own pants, I imagine that quite a few other things get expensive as well if you can't take off your own pants! So, in my case I chose to go pantless. Yes, my 601 would look cooler with pants, but the benefits overcome the gains. Frank Derfler But frank, isn't it a bit chilly in the winter? and in front of the children?!?! sorry, couldn't resist.... CS do not archive The only time to fly Pantless is when joining the Mile High Club Do not Archive Saludos Gary Gower. --------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.