---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/05/07: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:21 AM - Static Ports (Frank Derfler) 2. 06:45 AM - Flight Crafters and Zenith Distributing NEW LOCATION (rlaviation@aol.com) 3. 07:07 AM - Re: Static ports (Gig Giacona) 4. 07:12 AM - More on the backfire (george.mueller@aurora.org) 5. 07:28 AM - Re: More on the backfire (ashontz) 6. 07:35 AM - Re: Backfire or Afterfire (ashontz) 7. 07:57 AM - Re: British 601 Crash (was: 601 Crash) (ashontz) 8. 11:08 AM - Another quick bungee tool for the XL nose gear. (Paul Mulwitz) 9. 11:22 AM - Re: Painting Layout (japhillipsga@aol.com) 10. 11:34 AM - Re: Another quick bungee tool for the XL nose gear. (Tim Juhl) 11. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Static ports (kensmith@springnet1.com) 12. 12:16 PM - Re: Another quick bungee tool for the XL nose gear. (DaveG601XL) 13. 12:43 PM - Re: More on the backfire (Jim Hoak) 14. 12:50 PM - Bending Brake for 701 (Jerry Hey) 15. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: British 601 Crash (was: 601 Crash) (Bryan Martin) 16. 02:26 PM - Re: Bending Brake for 701 (bryanekholm) 17. 02:31 PM - ICS Plus nav/com needed (richard priebus) 18. 03:15 PM - Re: Bending Brake for 701 (MacDonald Doug) 19. 03:31 PM - EMS (Jaybannist@cs.com) 20. 04:33 PM - Re: Bending Brake for 701 (Art Olechowski) 21. 04:47 PM - water pump anyone? (LarryMcFarland) 22. 05:04 PM - Re: Bending Brake for 701 (Art Olechowski) 23. 05:30 PM - Re: EMS (Gig Giacona) 24. 05:34 PM - Re: Bending Brake for 701 (R.P.) 25. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: EMS (Dan Lykowski) 26. 06:20 PM - 701 Kit Info (Art Olechowski) 27. 06:35 PM - Re: Bending Brake for 701 (Graeme) 28. 06:38 PM - 601 HDS stall spead (Don Baker) 29. 07:00 PM - Re: Bending Brake for 701 (Ashcraft, Keith -AES) 30. 07:16 PM - Re: 701 Kit Info (Art Gibeaut) 31. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: Static ports (Paul Mulwitz) 32. 07:45 PM - Re: Re: Static ports (ZodieRocket) 33. 08:22 PM - Re: Bending Brake for 701 (rickpitcher) 34. 09:58 PM - Re: Re: EMS (Craig Payne) 35. 10:16 PM - Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC?? (n787xl@aol.com) 36. 10:20 PM - Finishing Rudder? (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 37. 10:54 PM - Re: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC?? (Graeme) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:06 AM PST US From: "Frank Derfler" Subject: Zenith-List: Static Ports DAVE and TERRY: I have the Dynon AoA and I'm sorry I paid the money for it. (This in a 601XL) I've replaced everything from the pitot on in while trying to get it to work effectively. It's been calibrated by experienced test pilots a number of times. It jumps, it twitters, it bounces around. Any "reading" you extrapolate is by eyeball averaging the jumping around over a range. And at that point in the flight you have better uses for your eyeballs! Even an experienced Navy carrier pilot laughed at trying to use it to maintain a constant angle of attack. For me, it's useless. From my experience, I wish I'd have spent the money elsewhere (specifically on a backup AI of some sort.) That said, I plan to go flying on Thursday. I'll take pictures of the static ports and post them. -- Frank Derfler -- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com - Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM -Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com -For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:19 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Flight Crafters and Zenith Distributing NEW LOCATION From: rlaviation@aol.com Greetings to Everyone! Flight Crafters (Experimental and Kit Built Builder Assistance Center) and Zenith Distributing, LLC (Southeastern Distributor of Zenith Aircraft Kits,Parts, & Accessories) have completed their move to a NEW location. We are still located adjacent to the Zephyrhills, Florida Municipal Airport (www.zephyrhills-airport.com), but we have moved to a new building. The address is: 40417 Chancey Road #102 Zephyrhills, Fl 33542. Our phone numbers remain the same (813-779-1156 (telephone), 813-690-1916(Russell Lepre'), 813-695-1120 (Bob Berube),813-779-7582 FAX. Keep checking our website (www.flightcrafters.com) or (www.zenithdistributing.com) for pictures, maps, and our latest projects. Russell Lepre' / Bob Berube ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:29 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Static ports From: "Gig Giacona" Frank, have you talked to Dynon about the problem and if so what did they say? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132881#132881 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:18 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: More on the backfire From: george.mueller@aurora.org Just to clarify my previous message about backfiring on shut down, I was not turning the ignition off during the full power run up, but would get a backfire after doing a full power run up, backing the throttle back down to 1800 rpm, letting it run at 1800 rpm for about 15 seconds, and then shutting the engine off. The rpms would wind down after the key was turned to off, followed by a "bang" at the very end, then silence, except for the snickering coming from nearby hangers. I am doing the full power run ups to check the pitch on my prop. I found it very interesting, however, that the NASCAR folks check plugs by doing a shut down at full throttle. I called Lockwood on this in addition to asking this list, and they said to synch the carbs. Even though I asked them to explain it to me twice, I am not entirely clear about the connection between the out of synch carbs and the backfire, but it had something to do with the extra vibration moving a needle in the carb and spilling fuel or something. So I will synch the carbs. Another viable theory contributed by the list is stale fuel. I am using autogas from the airport, but it has been sitting in my tanks for a couple of months while I finish the airplane. I actually put Stable in the gas a while back because my understanding is that if you are going to keep autogas in your tanks more than 60 days you should add a fuel stabilizer. So I will put in some fresh gas and see if that helps. I will also let the engine idle longer before shutting down. George in Milwaukee 701 912UL ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: More on the backfire From: "ashontz" An outright backfire (not an engine knock or ping) would come from excess fuel igniting in the intake manifold. I would guess the excess fuel would be coming from the fact that even though you're turning off the engine, at 1800 rpms it's still pulling a lot of air (and fuel) through the carbs. Even so, that excess fuel should still be pulled through the cylinders even if it's not getting burned. So you have to ask yourself, what's the ignition source in the intake manifold? Could it be a stuck valve or hot carbon deposits on a valve that's causing the mixture to get an ignition source. Are the head gaskets good or could compression be leaking back and causing a pressure buildup in the intake manifold and causing a dieseling type of ignition. Does the carb have an accellerator pump that's maybe leaking and allowing too much fuel in? How good does the engine run in general? What kind of an engine is it. A Lycoming 0-200 occasionally backfires when you turn it off per the book (idle speed then cut the fuel off). -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132885#132885 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:18 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Backfire or Afterfire From: "ashontz" Apparently heat is involved. I'm sure the engine is a lot hotter after a full power run up. Even so, you really shouldn't be shutting down and engine at full power. I don't think it will hurt the engine, unless a backfire blows out a gasket somewhere, but even so, there's no reason to be shutting down at full power. Looking at a fellow builders 912 I can see that the carbs on those things aren't very complicated. It's not like a car engine that has an O2 sensor and all kinds of other engine management systems. That being said, it's easy to create a situation where you can fool the engine into behaving badly. An airplane engine isn't meant to be much more than an adjustable oversized lawner engine. It provides power, but it's not meant to be revved up and down and all over. It's meant more for slower, more controlled inputs. [quote="george.mueller(at)aurora."]I am at the point of doing full power run-ups with my Zenith 701 with a rotax 912 UL 80hp installed with a Skyshops firewall forward kit. When I do a full power run up, I get a backfire (or afterfire maybe) after I turn the ignition key to "off". When I taxi around keeping the engine to around 2,000 rpm, this does not happen after shutdown, only after I do a full power run-up. Everything else seems normal as far as I can tell, the engine starts really well, seems to run smoothly, idles well. But after doing three full power run ups, I have had three backfires, all after turning off the ignition. Does anyone on the list have an idea about what might be causing this? George in Milwaukee 701 912UL > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132887#132887 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:08 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: British 601 Crash (was: 601 Crash) From: "ashontz" amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: > If it was lighter it would stall, but with more stuff inside it, the wings will start to complain. We are flying a sport pilot rated arecraft that is robust, not an EXTRA 300. > > Juan > > -- Actually, I'm sure it's even more likely to be stalling at a higher rate of speed, it's just that there's a lot more drag on the wing at higher speeds and that's what's snapping the wings. A lightly loaded plane and a heavily loaded plane, pulled up quickly, will exert just as much stress on the wings, the only difference is the lighter plane will climb 50 or 100 feet while the wings fail where as the heavier plane will just continue in a straight line while the wings break off. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132890#132890 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:51 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Zenith-List: Another quick bungee tool for the XL nose gear. I just figured out how to stretch the bungee ring to get it into position on the XL nose gear. I started with a piece of 1 inch PVC pipe with one end cut at a 45 degree angle. After positioning the bungee ring in the hook at the aft side of the nose gear column I placed the pipe through the ring with the point over the front tube. Just a simple lift of the pipe and the bungee stretched and slid right into place. I doubt this method will help with removing the ring or doing anything with it when the engine is installed, but it got me past this point in the build. Paul XL fuselage ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Painting Layout From: japhillipsga@aol.com Don't use regular masking tape to separate two different colors because it will leak and bleed. Use vinyell or plastic painter's tape from an auto paint store. -----Original Message----- From: dredmoody@cox.net Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 2:48 pm Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Painting Layout Don't use the blue or the purple painter's tape to do your actual masking on the plane. It will leak paint at places no matter how hard you try to stop it. That stuff only works reasonably for latex paints in my experience. Use that blue stuff to mark where the next color will be. Then position real masking tape next to the painter's tape using it as a guide. Once the masking tape is in place, the painter's tape is removed and the painting continues. That way you have the ease of placement and removal offered by the blue stuff to set the design then the superioir sealing of regular masking tape when you are painting. Dred ---- GLENN JOHNSON wrote: > > I HAVEN'T PAINTED YET, BUT I WILL TRY USING PAINTERS TAPE UNTIL I GET IT LIKE I WANT IT. IT FLEXES WELL AND SHOULDN'T PULL PAINT OFF. I USE THE BLUE FROM SCOTCH ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Another quick bungee tool for the XL nose gear. From: "Tim Juhl" How about a picture of your tool? Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132925#132925 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:43 AM PST US From: "kensmith@springnet1.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Static ports Dynon had a software update several years ago to eliminate the problem of erratic angle-of-attack readings. The location of the pitot also plays a major role in the proper indications. Gig Giacona wrote: > >Frank, have you talked to Dynon about the problem and if so what did they say? > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132881#132881 > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:20 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Another quick bungee tool for the XL nose gear. From: "DaveG601XL" For me the best tool I have found for the nose gear bungee (that i got off this Matronics site) is a 1/2" socket breaker bar. The 1/2" square drive fits in the gear strut hole and by pulling the handle of the breaker bar up, the bungee slides easily on. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132937#132937 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:45 PM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More on the backfire George, I too operate a 912UL 80 HP ( 553 hrs ). The "cooling down" procedure that I use is to operate the engine at about 2400 / 2500 RPM for a minute or two before turning off the ignition - the way the Rotax engine is shut down - no mixture control! I seem to remember reading about this procedure somewhere, but it isn't in the Operators Manual. I've never experienced " backfire" or "afterfire" Rotax does mention that " After a full-load ground test a short cooling run is necessary to prevent vapour formation in the cylinder head" This appears in the "Warming up period, ground test" section of the manual. This may be referring to the cooling system. I understand the need of high power runs to set the prop but I suggest keeping the high power ground runs to a minimum and check the engine RPM / Prop Settings during a flight around the pattern. As long as all blades are the same angle and close to your final setting this has seemed to work for me. Just my thoughts. Jim Hoak 601HD ----- Original Message ----- From: george.mueller@aurora.org To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: Zenith-List: More on the backfire Just to clarify my previous message about backfiring on shut down, I was not turning the ignition off during the full power run up, but would get a backfire after doing a full power run up, backing the throttle back down to 1800 rpm, letting it run at 1800 rpm for about 15 seconds, and then shutting the engine off. The rpms would wind down after the key was turned to off, followed by a "bang" at the very end, then silence, except for the snickering coming from nearby hangers. I am doing the full power run ups to check the pitch on my prop. I found it very interesting, however, that the NASCAR folks check plugs by doing a shut down at full throttle. I called Lockwood on this in addition to asking this list, and they said to synch the carbs. Even though I asked them to explain it to me twice, I am not entirely clear about the connection between the out of synch carbs and the backfire, but it had something to do with the extra vibration moving a needle in the carb and spilling fuel or something. So I will synch the carbs. Another viable theory contributed by the list is stale fuel. I am using autogas from the airport, but it has been sitting in my tanks for a couple of months while I finish the airplane. I actually put Stable in the gas a while back because my understanding is that if you are going to keep autogas in your tanks more than 60 days you should add a fuel stabilizer. So I will put in some fresh gas and see if that helps. I will also let the engine idle longer before shutting down. George in Milwaukee 701 912UL ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:33 PM PST US From: Jerry Hey Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 What length bending brake is needed for the 701? I have a good brake but only 52 inches. Thanks, Jerry ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:58 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: British 601 Crash (was: 601 Crash) > > amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: >> If it was lighter it would stall, but with more stuff inside it, the wings will start to complain. We are flying a sport pilot rated arecraft that is robust, not an EXTRA 300. >> >> Juan >> >> -- > > > > Actually, I'm sure it's even more likely to be stalling at a higher rate of speed, it's just that there's a lot more drag on the wing at higher speeds and that's what's snapping the wings. A lightly loaded plane and a heavily loaded plane, pulled up quickly, will exert just as much stress on the wings, the only difference is the lighter plane will climb 50 or 100 feet while the wings fail where as the heavier plane will just continue in a straight line while the wings break off. > > -------- > Andy Shontz Not quite. There are two ways to stall an airplane, keep the G loading constant and reduce the speed or keep the speed constant and increase the G loading. In other words, for any particular airspeed, there is a maximum amount of lift that the wings can generate, beyond that point the wing will stall. For any aircraft, the rated clean stall speed (Vs) is the speed at which the wings can just generate enough lift to carry the gross weight of the airplane. At higher speeds than Vs, the wings can generate more lift than the max gross weight of the airplane but they can still be made to stall if the G loading is increased enough. If the airspeed is higher than maneuvering speed (Va), the G loading that will cause the wings to stall exceeds the maximum flight G loading of the structure. In other words, the wings can generate more lift than the structure can safely handle. This is what causes wings to fail during a sharp pull-up at high speeds. Drag is not generally going to be a factor in structural failure unless you significantly exceed Vne because most aircraft are designed to tolerate their maximum flight G loading at Vne without damage. -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bending Brake for 701 From: "bryanekholm" A six foot brake should be long enough to bend all of the parts. I'm not certain how long the elevator and horizontal stabilizer spars are, but I'm thinking they are right at about 6 feet. I don't have my plans available to look at right now. Bryan Ekholm -------- Bryan Ekholm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132957#132957 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:44 PM PST US From: richard priebus Subject: Zenith-List: ICS Plus nav/com needed Hi, I'm in need of an ics plus nav/com dead or alive. I also need a schematic as I can't find anyone who can repair an ICS Plus. if anybody has one for sale, please contact me by email at rpriebus@yahoo.com. Do not archive. Thanks for reading this. Richard Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:26 PM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 Almost all bends on the 701 can be done on a on a 72 inch break except the elevator and H-stab spars. The require a 96 inch break. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch builder NW Ontario, Canada --- Jerry Hey wrote: > > > What length bending brake is needed for the 701? I > have a good > brake but only 52 inches. Thanks, Jerry ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:23 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Zenith-List: EMS I have a Dynon EMS-D10. Has anyone figured out how to get a tachometer read-out with a Corvair engine? I called Dynon and they were absolutely no help. Jay in Dallas ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:42 PM PST US From: Art Olechowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 Jerry, I believe the Horizontal Stab and Elevator spars are the longest rectangular bends which are slightly over 7 feet in length so I would say an 8 foot brake should do you justice. Anyone chime in if I'm incorrect. do not archive Art 701 Rudder in work Jerry Hey wrote: What length bending brake is needed for the 701? I have a good brake but only 52 inches. Thanks, Jerry ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:48 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Zenith-List: water pump anyone? Hi Guys, I decided to buy a water pump for the Stratus Subaru EA-81 as these tend to fail with some warning, but on their own schedule. So it seemed prudent to have spare parts, belts, plugs, filters, etc. The EA-81 has been a great performer with exceptional economy. I ordered a water pump for $26.00 at my local auto parts store. For the car data, it turned out not to be the correct one. The pulley (which was not included) was to be fastened with 4 bolts (not included) and the later than 1984 design pressed steel impeller is reported to self-destruct at high rpm. I visited *OReillys auto parts web site and found that the part number for the correct pump is* *57-1042*. This pump has the preferred cast impeller, the correct mushroom shaped pulley (attached) and it is listed for $26.99 less $3.00 core-exchange if you happen to need one. Data used for both was *Brat 1.8 pickup truck 1982-1987*. Another source part number for it is 53105, GMB water pump. Both are built by Cardone Industries. Stratus only provides Atsugi as "Specification" for the pump which is interpreted to mean it has "its own" characteristics. No one flies 100 horsepower pound for pound as inexpensively as the Subaru EA-81. Tuck this info into your Stratus manual or reference information and avoid the 48 hours of bewilderment. Happy flying guys, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:36 PM PST US From: Art Olechowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 Jerry, I believe the Horizontal Stab and Elevator spars are the longest rectangular bends which are slightly over 7 feet in length so I would say an 8 foot brake should do you justice. Anyone chime in if I'm incorrect. do not archive Art 701 Rudder in work Jerry Hey wrote: What length bending brake is needed for the 701? I have a good brake but only 52 inches. Thanks, Jerry ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: EMS From: "Gig Giacona" This little Gizmo is the key. http://www.msdignition.com/2006/06-22.htm I'm just not sure yet where the lock is. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132984#132984 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:06 PM PST US From: "R.P." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:49 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 > > What length bending brake is needed for the 701? I have a good brake > but only 52 inches. Thanks, Jerry I don't know what the longest part is on a 701, but I was able to bend almost everything I needed for a 601 on a 4-foot brake. I ALSO took a few sheets of aluminum over to a local sheet metal fabrication shop and had them cut &bend the aft spars and a couple other large pieces. They sheared and bent all the"L"'s I needed for the project too. The fab shop charged $100 for all this. A lot cheaper than buying a 8 foot brake! Rick ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:41 PM PST US From: Dan Lykowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: EMS Gig, I have been looking at these.. I don't know if the signal they put out is too noisy or not.. If someone wants to give it a shot, it does put out the correct voltages and its only $40.. I would try it myself, but my engine is nowhere near ready for it. I'm trying to convince my wife to let me go to college #11. Dan Lykowski Dynon Avionics ----- Original Message ---- From: Gig Giacona Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2007 5:27:25 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: EMS This little Gizmo is the key. http://www.msdignition.com/2006/06-22.htm I'm just not sure yet where the lock is. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132984#132984 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:51 PM PST US From: Art Olechowski Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Kit Info List, I'm extremely close in pulling the trigger for the 701 kit but I need some advise. I've read that there has been issues in the past with pre-drilled holes. I'm curious if the issues have been resolved or if I should request the kit un-drilled to avoid dealing with the frustration of getting replacement parts and wasting time. Has anyone experienced this lately? do not archive Art ( Rudder almost complete) ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:14 PM PST US From: "Graeme" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 Hi rick did you have any trouble getting them to ajust their bender to get the right radius of the bends. most have there bender set with the wrong radius and don't like changing their machine Graemecns ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.P." Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Hey" > To: "Zenith" > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:49 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 > > >> >> What length bending brake is needed for the 701? I have a good brake >> but only 52 inches. Thanks, Jerry > > I don't know what the longest part is on a 701, but I was able to bend > almost everything I needed for a 601 on a 4-foot brake. I ALSO took a few > sheets of aluminum over to a local sheet metal fabrication shop and had > them cut &bend the aft spars and a couple other large pieces. They sheared > and bent all the"L"'s I needed for the project too. > The fab shop charged $100 for all this. A lot cheaper than buying a 8 foot > brake! > > Rick > > > -- > 269.13.6/991 - Release Date: 5/09/2007 2:55 PM > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:23 PM PST US From: "Don Baker" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 HDS stall spead I am test flying a 601 HDS and getting a stall speed of 75 MPH. What stall speed do you get with the HDS wing? Don ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:19 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" Part #7H2-2 Stabilizer Rear Spar is 2220mm (87.4") long. The other long part is 7H2-8 at 2180mm (85.8").Another suggestion could be to purchase it, by itself, (or other parts that are too big for the 72" brake) from Zenith. The current Zenith Data Base shows the 7H2-2 for $57, and 7H2-8 for $72, or as Rick suggested, find a local metal worker and "Supervise his work", making sure the bending radius is not too sharp, or your metal may end up cracking. Good Luck!! Keith CH701 scratch builder N 38.9947 W 105.1305 Alt. 9,100' ************************************************************************* ********************* -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of R.P. Sent: Wed 9/5/2007 6:17 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:49 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake for 701 > > What length bending brake is needed for the 701? I have a good brake > but only 52 inches. Thanks, Jerry I don't know what the longest part is on a 701, but I was able to bend almost everything I needed for a 601 on a 4-foot brake. I ALSO took a few sheets of aluminum over to a local sheet metal fabrication shop and had them cut &bend the aft spars and a couple other large pieces. They sheared and bent all the"L"'s I needed for the project too. The fab shop charged $100 for all this. A lot cheaper than buying a 8 foot brake! Rick ***************************************************************** This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ******************************************************************* ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:32 PM PST US From: Art Gibeaut Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Kit Info Art, I got my wing component kit a couple of months ago, and they have the pre-drilled holes in the skins. I was apprehensive at first, but when I got to the point where I set the nose skin with bottom pre-drilled holes over the front edge of the bottom skin pre-drilled holes--they lined up perfectl y. I only have this much of the building under my belt, but I'd opt for the pre-drilled. Maybe someone else is further along, like John M. in Seattle. He has the wings done and is starting the fuselage. Just google "Building a CH701 in Seattle". He responds right away to Emails and has been a big he lp to me.=0A=0AArt Gibeaut=0ACH 701 maybe 20% done.=0AErie, IL=0A=0ADo not archive=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Art Olechowski =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, Septem ber 5, 2007 8:17:13 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: 701 Kit Info=0A=0A=0AList, =0AI'm extremely close in pulling the trigger for the 701 kit but I need so me advise. I've read that there has been issues in the past with pre-drill ed holes. I'm curious if the issues have been resolved or if I should requ est the kit un-drilled to avoid dealing with the frustration of getting rep lacement parts and wasting time. Has anyone experienced this lately? =0A ======================0A=0A=0A =0A____________________________________________________________________ ________________Ready for the edge of your seat? =0ACheck out tonight's top ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:22 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Static ports Hi David, Actually, it seems Nick is not an expert on this particular subject. The position of static ports is indeed critical if you want accurate readings on your instruments. You want to place the static ports somewhere so that there is no ram air pressure going into them or vacuum created around them. The position you mentioned, aft of the wing on the fuselage side, would probably have some vacuum because of the ever narrowing fuselage at that point. If you want to put the static ports on the fuselage side, I think you should find a location where the fuselage is exactly parallel to the air flow in flight. The pitot/static probe provided with the XL kit has three static ports located around a small tube near the ram air probe. This should indeed provide an unbiased measure point for static air pressure. Paul XL fuselage At 04:00 AM 9/4/2007, you wrote: >Dave, > >I asked this very question to ZAC at their Oshkosh booth this >year. Nick said the location of a static port was not all that >critical. The suggestion was on the fuselage side aft of the wing. > >Good luck, > >-------- >David Gallagher ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:39 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Static ports In a Way both Nick and Paul are correct even though it seems to be a differing opinion. I discussed this with Chris and he explained it by stating that there is a small boundary layer adhered to the fuselage sides that resides a dead static pressure air. As long as a force is not applied in a side load and the static port is installed flush with the skins then it will work in almost any position. Though the best area I have seen is in the Fuselage cabin area near the pilots knee. I have located both of my static ports 150 mm back from the firewall rivet line and 150mm down from the Longerons. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:24 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Static ports Hi David, Actually, it seems Nick is not an expert on this particular subject. The position of static ports is indeed critical if you want accurate readings on your instruments. You want to place the static ports somewhere so that there is no ram air pressure going into them or vacuum created around them. The position you mentioned, aft of the wing on the fuselage side, would probably have some vacuum because of the ever narrowing fuselage at that point. If you want to put the static ports on the fuselage side, I think you should find a location where the fuselage is exactly parallel to the air flow in flight. The pitot/static probe provided with the XL kit has three static ports located around a small tube near the ram air probe. This should indeed provide an unbiased measure point for static air pressure. Paul XL fuselage At 04:00 AM 9/4/2007, you wrote: >Dave, > >I asked this very question to ZAC at their Oshkosh booth this >year. Nick said the location of a static port was not all that >critical. The suggestion was on the fuselage side aft of the wing. > >Good luck, > >-------- >David Gallagher 10:36 PM 10:36 PM ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:42 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bending Brake for 701 From: "rickpitcher" graeme(at)coletoolcentre. wrote: > Hi rick > > did you have any trouble getting them to ajust their bender to get the right > radius of the bends. > most have there bender set with the wrong radius and don't like changing > their machine > > Graemecns > > --- Good point Graeme. The shop I went to is a sheet metal fabrication shop, not an Air Conditioning duct shop. The AC guys do use a tighter bend radius, but they can make adjustments if they know what you expect. Someone else mentioned that you'd want to supervise them. Good idea. Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133022#133022 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:38 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: EMS I had one of the MSD GMR ignition sensors but never hooked it up. I loaned it to Scott Laughlin but he could not get it to work with his dedicated tach. You might have better luck getting it to work with an engine monitor. I'm not certain if Scott still has the one I sent him but he might be willing to pass it on to someone to experiment with. They are not cheap. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC?? From: n787xl@aol.com List We were promised by Zenith new structural? testing after rash of 601XL wing failures?? With unbiased observer also! Did I miss something? JES ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:15 PM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: Zenith-List: Finishing Rudder? Gang: The photo guide for the rudder ends before the lower fairing, control horn and hinges are installed. Is there a photo guide which covers finishing the rudder and installing it on the fuselage? Or do you just work off the plans? Is there an "accepted way to line everything up and hold it in place before installing the hinges? Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:37 PM PST US From: "Graeme" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC?? you may have missed it but pictures of new testing on website. Graemecns ----- Original Message ----- From: n787xl@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC?? List We were promised by Zenith new structural testing after rash of 601XL wing failures With unbiased observer also! Did I miss something? JES ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Email and AIM finally together. 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