---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/08/07: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:02 AM - 701 evolution (river1) 2. 06:19 AM - Re: Use of Gascolator with auto fuel? (Jeffrey A Beachy) 3. 06:49 AM - wing top skins (john butterfield) 4. 08:25 AM - Another panel lights up .... Jeff Davidson (Jeff) 5. 08:28 AM - Valve Covers (Bill Naumuk) 6. 08:30 AM - Re: Use of Gascolator with auto fuel? (Geoff Heap) 7. 08:30 AM - Re: More on the backfire (Carl Bertrand) 8. 08:36 AM - Re: wing top skins (Jeff) 9. 08:38 AM - Re: Static Ports (John M. Goodings) 10. 09:16 AM - Re: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes (Edward Moody II) 11. 12:01 PM - Re: Valve Covers (WHC228@aol.com) 12. 01:26 PM - Re: Valve Covers (Bill Naumuk) 13. 01:48 PM - New Realtime Spell Checker Added To Matronics Forums! (Matt Dralle) 14. 02:09 PM - Re: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes (Paul Mulwitz) 15. 02:59 PM - Re: wing top skins (Terry Turnquist) 16. 04:38 PM - Re: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes (gbrac80@aol.com) 17. 04:51 PM - Re: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes (Paul Mulwitz) 18. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: Use of Gascolator with auto fuel? (LRM) 19. 11:56 PM - Re: Static Ports (Dave Thompson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 evolution From: "river1" Can someone provide info on the evolution of the 701 . Mark Townsend mentions the sp model , I thought that there was only one kind . I remember that back then all printed info came from zenair and zenith was a year or two old, there was no web site. Any early 701 builders that want to share their expirience , or people flying early model please do so thx. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133370#133370 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Use of Gascolator with auto fuel? From: Jeffrey A Beachy ACS sells replacement gaskets intended for use with auto fuel. Replacement gasket for auto fuel is p/n 06-00441. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:45 AM PST US From: john butterfield Subject: Zenith-List: wing top skins hi list: i hope to move my machine to a hanger soon for final assembly. i was wondering if it would be a disadvantage to leave the top skins clecoed on until all adjustments were complete and the wiring, fuel lines, control rigging and everything else is complete and ready to close up. the only worry i have is hanging the wings on and not having enough strength due to the fact that the top skin is not riveted in place, or that there will be extra sag due to the same reason. it seems that the final assembly would be much easier with access to the interior wing. still am waiting to see if any changes are recommended to beef up the wing before i close them up regards john butterfield 601xl, corvair torrance, ca ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:07 AM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: Zenith-List: Another panel lights up .... Jeff Davidson ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:53 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Valve Covers Corvair People- Getting ready to paint my engine parts. Valve covers are servicable, but badly pitted. Is there any filler (Bondo, spot putty or fiberglass) you can use to fill the craters that will stay in place in a moderate heat area? I'm already over budget. On the one hand, don't want to shell out another $200 for a set of machined aluminum covers, but on the other hand can't see ugly covers on an otherwise clean engine. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Use of Gascolator with auto fuel? From: "Geoff Heap" Thanks Guys............ I love this list. Ok. Noboby came up with anything substantial in 24 hours so its going in. I think its some kind of needless disclaimer. Thanks again....Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133400#133400 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:44 AM PST US From: "Carl Bertrand" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More on the backfire Hi George. As you probably have found, letting the engine cool-down before shutdown eliminates backfiring on shutdown. On amphibs I need lots of power to taxi out of the river and up to my hangar. The EGT when I park is around 1350 and shutting down immediately will cause backfires. I reduce to 2000 till the EGT stabilizes then throttle to idle until EGT is close to 1150. I then close one ignition to further reduce RPM before closing the second ignition. If you don't have EGT gauges, idle for one to two minutes after using high power before shutdown. Carl ----- Original Message ---- From: george.mueller@aurora.org To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:10 AM Subject: Zenith-List: More on the backfire Just to clarify my previous message about backfiring on shut down, I was not turning the ignition off during the full power run up, but would get a backfire after doing a full power run up, backing the throttle back down to 1800 rpm, letting it run at 1800 rpm for about 15 seconds, and then shutting the engine off. The rpms would wind down after the key was turned to off, followed by a "bang" at the very end, then silence, except for the snickering coming from nearby hangers. I am doing the full power run ups to check the pitch on my prop. I found it very interesting, however, that the NASCAR folks check plugs by doing a shut down at full throttle. I will also let the engine idle longer before shutting down. George in Milwaukee 701 912UL ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:51 AM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: wing top skins John, I have used the principle of not riveting anything until I have to after having to open up the top skins on the center HD wing section after they were fully riveted. I appreciate that I learned a new skill to remove rivets without causing damage, but it did not help me move along on the project. I am currently mounting my HD wings with the nose skin only clecoed on the top side. I have Leading Edge tanks that will need attention after the wings are on. The rear Z is also clecoed where the aileron attaches. With enough clecos my opinion is that the top skin can be held in place just fine for your purpose. The assumption here is that the bottom skin is riveted. Others may worry that there may be some movement, but that probably is not critical until you make the final adjustments to the wing attachments. Jeff Davidson i hope to move my machine to a hanger soon for final assembly. i was wondering if it would be a disadvantage to leave the top skins clecoed on until all adjustments were complete and the wiring, fuel lines, control rigging and everything else is complete and ready to close up. the only worry i have is hanging the wings on and not having enough strength due to the fact that the top skin is not riveted in place, or that there will be extra sag due to the same reason. it seems that the final assembly would be much easier with access to the interior wing. still am waiting to see if any changes are recommended to beef up the wing before i close them up regards ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:01 AM PST US From: "John M. Goodings" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Static Ports We installed a used (I think Beechcraft) combination pitot and static port on the underside of the port wing about half way to the tip. It has always read perfectly, as checked out from sensitive altimeter readings and Becker mode C. I like the fact that it is well outside the propeller arc. It was not difficult to install it into the wing after it was rivetted shut. We keep it covered when not in use with a cover which includes a red streamer "Remove Before Flight". Our hangar mate had a difficult time with 3 static ports on the fuselage sides of his (identical) 601HD before he got something that worked. John M. Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa/Toronto/Waterloo. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:22 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes I see no reason why the shape of the fitting would be a problem John. If a right angle fitting works better for you, it should be okay. I made choices for similar reasons at the master cylinders and the parking brake valve myself. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: John Davis To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 4:07 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes Hi All, I've sent an email to grove asking this question but havent heard yet so I thought I would ask here. I've got a 601XL QB kit and the way the brake mechanisms are installed I would like to swap the Bleed fitting with the 90 degree one so the brake line will route better. Anyone see any problem with swapping those fittings ? Thanks, John Davis Burnsville, NC -- 9/8/2007 1:24 PM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:47 PM PST US From: WHC228@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Valve Covers Bill I do not have any experience with plastic fillers. My only experience with fillers is with solder. That was forty or fifty years ago. I did buy a O235 Lycoming. I figured that I would have about the same amount of money in this engine that I would have spent to make a Corvair into an aircraft engine. I do like Lycoming engines. They may not be bulletproof, but they are strong. They have a 2400 hour TBO. There are also plenty of aircraft mechanics that know all about them. I suppose that if I had never run into the crack in the crank, I would have kept on going with the Corvair. I don't know if my valve covers are any better than the ones that you have, but if they are, I would be willing to swap them with you. I'll look them over next time I go there. I have been stalled for a while. I cross threaded the filler neck on my gas tank, and am waiting for Zenith to send me the tap to chase the thread in that tank. I will not rivet the leading edge of that wing until I have cleared up that problem. Once I have that done, I will be able to finish the wing and get it off my work table so that I can start the fuselage. I have another week of intense work here in my business, before I can get back to the airplane in any case. Let me know if you want me to look at those covers. Bill ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:36 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Valve Covers Bill- Sure, I'll look at the covers. Lynn warned me to warn you about the damn fillers. I believe I did, but, not being an XL builder, probably wasn't forceful enough. I haven't touched my airframe in over 2 months- all engine work. Want to get as much done as possible on the engine before winter. It's in the main (Unheated) garage rather than in my (Heated) build area. I have to do a batch of running around in about 2-3 weeks. We'll schedule something then. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: WHC228@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 3:00 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Valve Covers Bill I do not have any experience with plastic fillers. My only experience with fillers is with solder. That was forty or fifty years ago. I did buy a O235 Lycoming. I figured that I would have about the same amount of money in this engine that I would have spent to make a Corvair into an aircraft engine. I do like Lycoming engines. They may not be bulletproof, but they are strong. They have a 2400 hour TBO. There are also plenty of aircraft mechanics that know all about them. I suppose that if I had never run into the crack in the crank, I would have kept on going with the Corvair. I don't know if my valve covers are any better than the ones that you have, but if they are, I would be willing to swap them with you. I'll look them over next time I go there. I have been stalled for a while. I cross threaded the filler neck on my gas tank, and am waiting for Zenith to send me the tap to chase the thread in that tank. I will not rivet the leading edge of that wing until I have cleared up that problem. Once I have that done, I will be able to finish the wing and get it off my work table so that I can start the fuselage. I have another week of intense work here in my business, before I can get back to the airplane in any case. Let me know if you want me to look at those covers. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's new a_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:38 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: New Realtime Spell Checker Added To Matronics Forums! Dear Listers, Today 9/8/2007 I have added a new real-time spell checker function to all of the BBS Forums at Matronics. When you reply or create a new message on the Forums, you will notice that misspelled words will be high-lighted in yellow. If you left-click on the word, you will be prompted with a drop-down list of suggested spellings. http://forums.matronics.com Enjoy! Matt Dralle Matornics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:36 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes Hi John, The instructions that came with my Grove brakes says you can swap the fittings. Of course you will want the bleed fitting on the bottom and the pressure fitting on the top. Any other configuration and you will have problems bleeding air from the system. I think you can get the Grove instructions online at their web site. What you can't get (at least I couldn't) is any response to an email inquiry. Paul XL fuselage At 02:07 PM 9/7/2007, you wrote: > >Hi All, >I've sent an email to grove asking this question but havent heard >yet so I thought I would ask here. > >I've got a 601XL QB kit and the way the brake mechanisms are >installed I would like to swap the Bleed fitting with the 90 degree >one so the brake line will route better. > >Anyone see any problem with swapping those fittings ? > >Thanks, >John Davis >Burnsville, NC ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:04 PM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing top skins John, you could consider throwing just a few rivets into the top skin which will stabilize it. You can use hardware store rivets for cost and ease of removal. Save your clecos for the fuse. Terry Turnquist hi list: i hope to move my machine to a hanger soon for final assembly. i was wondering if it would be a disadvantage to leave the top skins clecoed on until all adjustments were complete and the wiring, fuel lines, control rigging and everything else is complete and ready to close up. the only worry i have is hanging the wings on and not having enough strength due to the fact that the top skin is not riveted in place, or that there will be extra sag due to the same reason. it seems that the final assembly would be much easier with access to the interior wing. still am waiting to see if any changes are recommended to beef up the wing before i close them up regards john butterfield 601xl, corvair torrance, ca --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes From: gbrac80@aol.com Paul, Did you mean to put the pressure fitting on the bottom and the bleed fitting on top?? Air here in the Northern Hemisphere tends to bubble to the top of brake fluid.? How does it behave where you are? Rgds, Mike. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Mulwitz Sent: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 5:08 pm Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes ? Hi John,? ? The instructions that came with my Grove brakes says you can swap the fittings. Of course you will want the bleed fitting on the bottom and the pressure fitting on the top. Any other configuration and you will have problems bleeding air from the system.? ? I think you can get the Grove instructions online at their web site. What you can't get (at least I couldn't) is any response to an email inquiry.? ? Paul? XL fuselage? ? At 02:07 PM 9/7/2007, you wrote:? >? >Hi All,? >I've sent an email to grove asking this question but havent heard >yet so I thought I would ask here.? >? >I've got a 601XL QB kit and the way the brake mechanisms are >installed I would like to swap the Bleed fitting with the 90 degree >one so the brake line will route better.? >? >Anyone see any problem with swapping those fittings ?? >? >Thanks,? >John Davis? >Burnsville, NC? ? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:56 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes Hi Mike, I admit it may not be intuitive, but the bleed fitting goes at the lowest point. The best way to fill the brake system is to pump the fluid in from the bottom to the top. While the fluid fills the various tubes and compartments the air is forced upward to the reservoir. Who woulda guessed ? Paul XL fuselage At 04:36 PM 9/8/2007, you wrote: >Paul, >Did you mean to put the pressure fitting on the bottom and the bleed >fitting on top? Air here in the Northern Hemisphere tends to bubble >to the top of brake fluid. How does it behave where you are? >Rgds, >Mike. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:06 PM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Use of Gascolator with auto fuel? No, I think there is more to it. They wouldn't say it just for the hell of it, there is a reason. I bought the right gasket. Call AS and ask them, I did, just don't remember the exact details. It is something to do with auto gas being unleaded. I just don't remember the details. But, it better to err on the safe side, especially for a couple of bucks. It's only your life you are messing with. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Heap" Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 10:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Use of Gascolator with auto fuel? > > Thanks Guys............ I love this list. > Ok. Noboby came up with anything substantial in 24 hours so its going in. > I think its some kind of needless disclaimer. Thanks again....Geoff > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133400#133400 > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:32 PM PST US From: "Dave Thompson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Static Ports Need a serial port on a laptop? I use a USB to Serial adapter all the time at work. The telephone systems can be very picky about their connections but I've never had any problems with my adaptors. I'm at home now. If you can't find one with a web search, write me and I'll get a brand & part number for you from work. Dave Thompson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.