Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:34 AM - Re: 701 evolution (txpilot)
2. 09:11 AM - New Member (mosquito56)
3. 10:13 AM - Re: New Member (robert stone)
4. 11:11 AM - Re: Valve Covers (Dave Thompson)
5. 11:18 AM - Re: Valve Covers (Bill Naumuk)
6. 11:20 AM - Re: Valve Covers (Bill Naumuk)
7. 11:32 AM - Re: 701 evolution (river1)
8. 11:32 AM - Re: wing top skins (Dave Thompson)
9. 12:59 PM - 701 Rear Rudder Skin (Art Olechowski)
10. 01:34 PM - Re: New Member (Bryan Martin)
11. 03:04 PM - Re: 701 evolution (txpilot)
12. 03:24 PM - Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? (PatrickW)
13. 04:10 PM - Re: 701 evolution (river1)
14. 04:26 PM - Re: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? (Jeff)
15. 06:16 PM - Re: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? (Leo Gates)
16. 06:49 PM - Re: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? (Colin Noseworthy)
17. 07:46 PM - Re: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? (James Clark)
18. 10:29 PM - Re: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? (mosquito56)
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| Subject: | Re: 701 evolution |
I have made the mistake of purchasing a used kit that was partially built. This
kit was originally purchased in 1999. After checking the provided iinstructions,
I ordered the newest plans and now reference the pictorial drawings on the
ZAC website. I can now see the differences in the 701 evolution. I can't
tell you the 'why', but here's a list of 'what':
1. Modified wing root skin and added wing root angle (probably to reduce skin
buckling issues)
2. Modification of nose wheel gear to add upper and lower nylon bearings. Bungee
and bungee pin upgraded for heavier weights.
3. Modification of main gear. 'Old' style gear is similar to the 601 with wheel
forks. New gear is mounted to the side of the spring. Skyjeep option includes
heavy duty all-terrain tundra gear and wheels.
4. Extended baggage compartment added.
5. Modified door hinges. Original doors are forward hinged and required builder
to fabricate hinges from 3/4" stock. New doors are hinged upwards.
6. Wing tanks added. Original kits had single fuel tank located under the instrument
panel.
7. Formed windshield added.
8. 'SP' Sport Plane ready introduced 06/2001. 21 parts are either added or upgraded
to larger thicknesses. Jury struts are greatly modified. Changes are
made to the plans whereas some locations have more rivets. These changes are
required for 1100 lb gross weight modification.
9. VERY IMPORTANT: Seat belt attachments increased in size from .040" thickness
to .063" thickness. Also, ZAC added a central seat belt attachment doubler
underneath the tunnel (although many builders feel this doubler is inadequate).
10. Stabilizer front brackets increased in thickness due to cracks found in some
aircraft.
These are just some changes I noted off the top of my head and is not all-inclusive.
While some of these items were modified for increased versatility or convenience,
some are safety related due to past experience. Either way, I would
suggest going with the latest plans as they have evolved into a safe, versatile
aircraft. That's just my two cents. :D
Best Regards,
Dan Ginty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133583#133583
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I have been reading this forum since I purchased my Zodiac 601xl kit in early July.
The kit was used and the previous owner had completed the rudder and elevator
before I purchased the kit. I have since completed both the elevators, both
the flaps and the right wing. I began the left wing last week and it is coming
along much faster since I cut many part for both wings at the same time.
I only have about a million questions but the one bothering me right now is the
FAA. They recommend I get an advisor from the EAA however the closest EAA chapter
is about 150 miles from me. I live in Laredo, Tx. If you can assist me
in finding someone I would be very grateful.
Another question is in the same category. I spoke to an inspector about a month
ago and wonder if there is a way to lock in a specific DAR. I talk to the inspector
he says X. I am afraid that if I get a different inspector he will say
Y and I will be screwed. I am taking extensive photos, maintaining the website
at expercraft and keeping an extensive logbook. Since I don't have the EAA
rep to signoff, I am totally confused.
Any assistance would be apreaciated. Also, any e-mails just to say hi would be
great
Don
601xl slow build
N601NV reserved
Rans S-12 owner and flyer
Laredo, Tx
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133590#133590
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Don,
If you are a member of EAA this is the best place to go for legal
advice concerning the building of your aircraft. Call 888-322 4636,
Flight Advisor & Technical Counselor and see what they can do for you. If
you are not a member, Join by all means. All persons building an aircraft
should be a member EAA Membership Services, 800-564-6322. Both of these
calls are free.
Tracy Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 11:11 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: New Member
>
> I have been reading this forum since I purchased my Zodiac 601xl kit in
> early July. The kit was used and the previous owner had completed the
> rudder and elevator before I purchased the kit. I have since completed
> both the elevators, both the flaps and the right wing. I began the left
> wing last week and it is coming along much faster since I cut many part
> for both wings at the same time.
> I only have about a million questions but the one bothering me right now
> is the FAA. They recommend I get an advisor from the EAA however the
> closest EAA chapter is about 150 miles from me. I live in Laredo, Tx. If
> you can assist me in finding someone I would be very grateful.
> Another question is in the same category. I spoke to an inspector about a
> month ago and wonder if there is a way to lock in a specific DAR. I talk
> to the inspector he says X. I am afraid that if I get a different
> inspector he will say Y and I will be screwed. I am taking extensive
> photos, maintaining the website at expercraft and keeping an extensive
> logbook. Since I don't have the EAA rep to signoff, I am totally confused.
> Any assistance would be apreaciated. Also, any e-mails just to say hi
> would be great
> Don
> 601xl slow build
> N601NV reserved
> Rans S-12 owner and flyer
> Laredo, Tx
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133590#133590
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Valve Covers |
Bill,
Call California Corvairs 951-284-3555. Their 2005 - 2007 price list shows a
used valve cover at $12.00 each. I don't recall the owner's name right now
but I have gone over there and purchased some stuff from him. He was a very
nice guy and very interested in the Corvair flight engine movement. I'm sure
that if you call him he'll pick out a good clean pair and send them to you
for a very reasonable cost.
Good Luck,
Dave Thompson
Westminster, Ca
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| Subject: | Re: Valve Covers |
Dave-
Thanks for the lead!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Thompson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Valve Covers
Bill,
Call California Corvairs 951-284-3555. Their 2005 - 2007 price list
shows a used valve cover at $12.00 each. I don't recall the owner's name
right now but I have gone over there and purchased some stuff from him.
He was a very nice guy and very interested in the Corvair flight engine
movement. I'm sure that if you call him he'll pick out a good clean pair
and send them to you for a very reasonable cost.
Good Luck,
Dave Thompson
Westminster, Ca
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| Subject: | Re: Valve Covers |
do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Valve Covers
Bill-
Sure, I'll look at the covers.
Lynn warned me to warn you about the damn fillers. I believe I
did, but, not being an XL builder, probably wasn't forceful enough.
I haven't touched my airframe in over 2 months- all engine work.
Want to get as much done as possible on the engine before winter. It's
in the main (Unheated) garage rather than in my (Heated) build area.
I have to do a batch of running around in about 2-3 weeks. We'll
schedule something then.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: WHC228@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Valve Covers
Bill
I do not have any experience with plastic fillers. My only
experience with fillers is with solder. That was forty or fifty years
ago.
I did buy a O235 Lycoming. I figured that I would have about the
same amount of money in this engine that I would have spent to make a
Corvair into an aircraft engine. I do like Lycoming engines. They may
not be bulletproof, but they are strong. They have a 2400 hour TBO.
There are also plenty of aircraft mechanics that know all about them.
I suppose that if I had never run into the crack in the crank, I
would have kept on going with the Corvair.
I don't know if my valve covers are any better than the ones that
you have, but if they are, I would be willing to swap them with you.
I'll look them over next time I go there.
I have been stalled for a while. I cross threaded the filler neck on
my gas tank, and am waiting for Zenith to send me the tap to chase the
thread in that tank. I will not rivet the leading edge of that wing
until I have cleared up that problem. Once I have that done, I will be
able to finish the wing and get it off my work table so that I can start
the fuselage.
I have another week of intense work here in my business, before I
can get back to the airplane in any case.
Let me know if you want me to look at those covers.
Bill
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| Subject: | Re: 701 evolution |
Dan; Thanks for the info, I am new to the list and I am spending some time reading
back . I am posting the same questions that I sended to seb heintz on a e-mail
a week ago but still waiting for the answer . Of all the items that you
mention only the seat belts and the horz stab attach seem to be important. I started
to build one in 94, fuselage and ribs when I had to stop for many reasons.
It seems to me so far that most changes are in responce to market needs ,
of heavy pilots wanting biger engines , More range , speed. Still with the available
knowledge, do you think it could be built safely? Thx.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133611#133611
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| Subject: | Re: wing top skins |
Terry Turnquist said:
John, you could consider throwing just a few rivets into the top skin which
will
stabilize it. You can use hardware store rivets for cost and ease of
removal.
Save your clecos for the fuse.
To me, that sounds like a great idea even though I'm not building. An added
thought, if you use hardware store POP-Rivets, paint them red or something
to be able to quickly identify them. That way you have less of a chance
missing one that will need to be replaced before flight. Simply take a
cardboard box, punch a bunch of holes in it and stick the rivets in the
holes. Then just use a rattle can to spray paint them. A quality paint job
is not the goal, just quick identification of the "wrong" rivets. Harbor
Freight Tools have 1/8" X 1/4" pop rivets in a box of 500 for $2.99.
Just my two cents worth.
Dave Thompson
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| Subject: | 701 Rear Rudder Skin |
701 List,
I'm at the point of drilling through the rear rudder skin into the ribs and I'm
slightly apprehensive of doing so. The assembly manual states that the leading
edge of the rear skin should be flush with the spar (Rev 1.6 pg 7). How
many of you actually were able to do so without the tapered end of the bottom
rib causing a bulge at the skins T.E.? Also did you guys align the forward skin
to be flush with spar web or with the bend tangent along the length of the
spar? Any advice before ruining the rudder would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Art
701 Rudder
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You might contact some of the nearest chapters and find out if any of
their technical councilors live nearer to you. From the EAA website, I
see that there are chapters in Corpus Christi and San Antonio, both
about 150 miles from Laredo. If the chapters are scattered that widely
in that area, their members may be scattered over a fairly wide area
too. Maybe you have one living nearby.
As far as DARs are concerned, they are private contractors that are
approved by the FAA to do the final inspections on homebuilts. They do
the inspections on their own time and charge for the service. If you
choose to use a DAR for your inspection, whoever you initially contact
will be the one to do your inspection because you will be hiring him
directly. If you use and FAA airworthiness inspector instead, you won't
pay for the inspection but you may have a long wait for them to work you
into their schedule. The FAA has, for the most part, delegated the
inspections of homebuilts to DARs. At least they have in my neck of the
woods.
>
> I have been reading this forum since I purchased my Zodiac 601xl kit in early
July. The kit was used and the previous owner had completed the rudder and elevator
before I purchased the kit. I have since completed both the elevators,
both the flaps and the right wing. I began the left wing last week and it is coming
along much faster since I cut many part for both wings at the same time.
> I only have about a million questions but the one bothering me right now is
the FAA. They recommend I get an advisor from the EAA however the closest EAA
chapter is about 150 miles from me. I live in Laredo, Tx. If you can assist me
in finding someone I would be very grateful.
> Another question is in the same category. I spoke to an inspector about a month
ago and wonder if there is a way to lock in a specific DAR. I talk to the
inspector he says X. I am afraid that if I get a different inspector he will
say Y and I will be screwed. I am taking extensive photos, maintaining the website
at expercraft and keeping an extensive logbook. Since I don't have the EAA
rep to signoff, I am totally confused.
> Any assistance would be apreaciated. Also, any e-mails just to say hi would
be great
> Don
> 601xl slow build
> N601NV reserved
> Rans S-12 owner and flyer
> Laredo, Tx
>
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 701 evolution |
Well, like I said, I'm giving you the 'whats' and not the 'whys'. I'm only seeing
a part of the story, but hopefully Sebastian can fill in the blanks.
I would say you're correct that most of the changes may be for market needs, but
other things (i.e. nosewheel steering components) may have been upgraded to
improve reliability. Simply put, I'm not sure.
I see from other posts that you're interested in building a 701 as light as possible.
May I ask why you're deciding not to upgrade your 701 to current SP standards?
The only other consideration is lack of available parts. As I recall,
another member on this forum is looking for a 582 mount, which I doubt ZAC
still makes. Anyway, that may be another reason to stick with current designs.
P.S. - Two more things to add on my previous list: modification to rudder control
cables by adding a pulley near the main gear section (possibly for system
reliability), and upgrade of the rear fuselage top channel (cracks found in other
aircraft).
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133629#133629
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| Subject: | Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? |
Friends - I'll soon have the opportunity to fly a Zodiac 601XL in a training situation,
and as my own XL approaches completion I plan on becoming current in
a 601XL prior to my own aircraft's first flight.
My 601XL is configured with the Y stick, whereas the training 601XL is configured
with dual sticks.
Has anyone here done transition training on a dual stick 601XL and then moved on
to a 601XL with the Y stick...?
Do any of you who have flown 601XL's see this as an issue...?
I am a PPSEL, and will have about 200 hours in several aircraft by the time I make
my first flight (Warrior, J3, CT, Evector, & 601XL).
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133634#133634
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| Subject: | Re: 701 evolution |
Dan; My impresion is that company presidents are usually unavailable that's why
I tried first over e-mail, tomorow I'll try the phone.I don't have one or the
plans, but like to plans built the original spec 701.The reason, less weigt less
power needed (582).The engine mount plans was included in the early plans
and I can weld .In relation to the fuselage top chanel I received private e-mail
for the reasons , flying at gross hard landings , vne and overall heavy engines.
Thanks again Pedro.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133642#133642
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| Subject: | Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? |
Patrick,
I have flown both. We are all different, but it took just a few
minutes to adjust to either one, Most of my 500 hours are with a Cessna
yoke. I had flown a Piper Cub Special with a stick before, but not the Y
stick. I found flying with either one a non issue.
Jeff Davidson
<snip>
Has anyone here done transition training on a dual stick 601XL and then
moved on to a 601XL with the Y stick...?
Do any of you who have flown 601XL's see this as an issue...?
<snip>
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| Subject: | Re: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? |
Patrick, I completely agree with Jeff. I have an HDS with a Y stick.
I live in a flying community with a bunch of "old geezers" like myself.
At first glance, ALL my neighbors were VERY skeptical of the stick. I
made believers out of all of them by getting them in the seat, climbing
to 400', crossing my arms and saying, "the plane is yours". Two
minutes later the stick was a NON-ISSUE and the grin on their face was
my reward.
My 2 cents.
Leo Gates
N601Z
Jeff wrote:
>
> Patrick,
> I have flown both. We are all different, but it took just a few
> minutes to adjust to either one, Most of my 500 hours are with a Cessna
> yoke. I had flown a Piper Cub Special with a stick before, but not the Y
> stick. I found flying with either one a non issue.
> Jeff Davidson
>
> <snip>
>
> Has anyone here done transition training on a dual stick 601XL and then
> moved on to a 601XL with the Y stick...?
>
> Do any of you who have flown 601XL's see this as an issue...?
> <snip>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? |
Hello Patrick,
I have had the good fortune to fly both the Y stick and the dual sticks in
the XL. While I prefer the dual sticks the Y stick is still very easy to
use. The main issue with the Y stick for me came with trying to reconfigure
the GPS or change freqs on the radio, not with controlling the aircraft.
The XL that I am currently flying originally had the Y stick from first
flight to about the 125 hour point. At first, I had a little difficulty
holding altitude in a steep turn. I tended to always pull back on the stick
as I went past 45 degrees. With only a couple flights practicing the
maneuver my error was quickly overcome. Control during take off and landing
with the Y stick was never a concern.
Good luck.
Colin
----- Original Message -----
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:24 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a
problem...?
>
> Friends - I'll soon have the opportunity to fly a Zodiac 601XL in a
> training situation, and as my own XL approaches completion I plan on
> becoming current in a 601XL prior to my own aircraft's first flight.
>
> My 601XL is configured with the Y stick, whereas the training 601XL is
> configured with dual sticks.
>
> Has anyone here done transition training on a dual stick 601XL and then
> moved on to a 601XL with the Y stick...?
>
> Do any of you who have flown 601XL's see this as an issue...?
>
> I am a PPSEL, and will have about 200 hours in several aircraft by the
> time I make my first flight (Warrior, J3, CT, Evector, & 601XL).
>
> Patrick
> 601XL/Corvair
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133634#133634
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? |
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Noseworthy <rocclobster@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 20:49
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...?
Hello Patrick,
I have had the good fortune to fly both the Y stick and the dual sticks in
the XL. While I prefer the dual sticks the Y stick is still very easy to
use. The main issue with the Y stick for me came with trying to reconfigure
the GPS or change freqs on the radio, not with controlling the aircraft.
The XL that I am currently flying originally had the Y stick from first
flight to about the 125 hour point. At first, I had a little difficulty
holding altitude in a steep turn. I tended to always pull back on the stick
as I went past 45 degrees. With only a couple flights practicing the
maneuver my error was quickly overcome. Control during take off and landing
with the Y stick was never a concern.
Good luck.
Colin
----- Original Message -----
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:24 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a
problem...?
[The entire original message is not included]
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? |
You might want to find a quicksilver u/l and do about an hour in that. They don't
have a y stick but do have one stick in the middle that the student holds below
the instructor. This should give you an idea of how it will feel flying Y
stick.
I would highly recommend you find someone with a Y and the same model as yours.
With the sensitivity of the elevator in the XL and the fact your going to
be flying a new plane for the first time, you don't want this little problem in
your mind. Get some Y time just to be on the safe side.
OLD BOLD ETC.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133700#133700
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