---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/17/07: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:57 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Near Perfect Flight (Gary Ray) 2. 06:36 AM - Pilot size and 701 (Bima, Martin) 3. 06:38 AM - Koger Sun Shades (robert stone) 4. 07:16 AM - Re: Pilot size and 701 (LRM) 5. 09:22 AM - completion for sale (Zed Smith) 6. 09:32 AM - Re: completion for sale (Craig Payne) 7. 09:40 AM - Re: Koger Sun Shades (Gary Ray) 8. 09:42 AM - Re: completion for sale (Gig Giacona) 9. 10:04 AM - Re: Koger Sun Shades () 10. 10:08 AM - Re: 701 Rear Rudder Skin (rbjjr) 11. 10:12 AM - Correct "for sale" address (Zed Smith) 12. 10:36 AM - (no subject) (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com) 13. 10:59 AM - Re: (no subject) (GM) 14. 11:23 AM - Re: pilot size for 701 (milreed) 15. 11:29 AM - thanks, George! (Zed Smith) 16. 11:42 AM - Re: pilot size for 701 (Craig Payne) 17. 12:01 PM - Re: Correct "for sale" address (Gig Giacona) 18. 12:54 PM - Re: Upper Bushing Wear - Rudder Hinge on 601 (Klaus Truemper) 19. 01:43 PM - Re: Upper Bushing Wear - Rudder Hinge on 601 (Klaus Truemper) 20. 02:17 PM - corrupted aaddrreessee (Zed Smith) 21. 02:24 PM - completion for sale, correct address! (Zed Smith) 22. 05:27 PM - Slightly off topic: No more Zinc Chromate from Wicks (John Marzulli) 23. 06:00 PM - chat tonight (Rob St Denis) 24. 06:40 PM - Re: Slightly off topic: No more Zinc Chromate from Wicks (ROBERT SCEPPA) 25. 07:43 PM - AOA for your Dynon (Tim Shankland) 26. 09:13 PM - VW engine and parts for sale or trade (David Mikesell) 27. 10:05 PM - elevator balancing (howado1@comcast.net) 28. 11:56 PM - Slightly off topic. No more zinc chromate from Wicks (fred sanford) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:55 AM PST US From: "Gary Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Near Perfect Flight The following is how I understand it. Either I got lucky or I have it right. On the inside of my spinner I found a witness mark that developed after the first 30 hours. The mark is a dark powdered area on the inner spinner near the bulkhead. This implies that some motion is occuring. This forms when the bulkhead is deviating away from the prop hub. I reasoned that the side 90 degrees after the mark must be heavy in order to cause the deflection. Gyroscopes react 90 degrees after the point where force is applied. Since the heavy side can not move into the prop hub there is no motion at that point. However the opposite side can experience a force away from the hub but the actual movement outward would occur 90 degrees later. As an example if you spin a bicycle tire in a forward rotation, then tip the top of the tire to the left, you will see that the front of the wheel also moves to the left (90 degrees later). In my case I reasoned that the action of the front of the wheel represents the point where I was seeing witness marks. So adding weight 90 degrees prior made sense. This line of reasoning was then confirmed on a static lawn mower balance. I added duct tape to the inside of the spinner with washers beneath as a trial and got an immediate improvement. The witness marks are an indication of dynamic balance problems so as time goes on I will watch for any return of these marks. ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 9:16 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Near Perfect Flight Glad to hear you are in the air and enjoying your plane. > A few strategically placed washers inside my spinner did the trick so I will attach them permanently. How did you decide where to place the washers? I'm assuming you didn't have access to dynamic balancing equipment. -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/15/07 7:54 PM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:05 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Pilot size and 701 From: "Bima, Martin" I am 6'4" 200 lb, and do not fit comfortably in the standard 701. The standard 701 has a flat roof that is much lower than the top of the wing surface, and a raised seat pan due to the flap control rods. I plan to continue the wing shape across the top of the cabin and drop the seat pan to the floor and give myself enough head room for some. In any case, if you are tall, please go sit in one. There may be other modifications necessary if you are very leggy. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:46 AM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Zenith-List: Koger Sun Shades Netheads Did any of you guys ever get in touch with Ralph Koger and has he finally developed a suitable sun shade design for the ZodiacXL? Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:30 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pilot size and 701 You might want to do some research, but I think the opening between the wings serves a purpose. It allows direct prop wash to the horizontal and elevator. If you raise the center up, with an airfoil, you will get a little more lift but it won't handle as good at low speeds. The tail already needs help, closing the center up might make it worse. At least that's what I think, for what's that's worth. My wife's son-in-law is 6'4" and 240. He doesn't have all the room he would like, but is comfortable enough. You might do a few things I did. Move the dash forward 2", foot petals same, thin seat foam, and don't wear a hat. Take care, Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bima, Martin" Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:33 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Pilot size and 701 > > > I am 6'4" 200 lb, and do not fit comfortably in the standard 701. The > standard 701 has a flat roof that is much lower than the top of the wing > surface, and a raised seat pan due to the flap control rods. I plan to > continue the wing shape across the top of the cabin and drop the seat > pan to the floor and give myself enough head room for some. > > In any case, if you are tall, please go sit in one. There may be other > modifications necessary if you are very leggy. > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:34 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: completion for sale do not archive http://www.ipass.net/gingo/n9612home.html Thought some may be interested. Regards to all, Zed ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:09 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: completion for sale http://www.ipass.net/gingo/n9612home.html This link doesn't work for me. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:31 AM PST US From: "Gary Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Koger Sun Shades I spoke to him at Oshkosh. He told me he has a model that fits the 601XL. There was a small issue with the rear canopy support bar. Gary Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: robert stone To: Zenith list Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 9:38 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Koger Sun Shades Netheads Did any of you guys ever get in touch with Ralph Koger and has he finally developed a suitable sun shade design for the ZodiacXL? Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/16/07 6:32 PM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:01 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: completion for sale From: "Gig Giacona" Me either. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134846#134846 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:45 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Koger Sun Shades Just got mine in last week Tracy. He makes a shade 34" wide by 35" long for the 601XL. That's four inches wider than the RV7 shade and ten inches longer. I haven't installed it yet and haven't decided for sure whether or not I'll have it extend behind the rear canopy bow tube or not. You can either mount it entirely ahead of that tube or cut the C-channel and have the shade span the tube to shade the area behind the tube to whatever extent the sun exposure in that area demands. Call Ralph or email him for more details. Dred ---- robert stone wrote: > Netheads > Did any of you guys ever get in touch with Ralph Koger and has he finally developed a suitable sun shade design for the ZodiacXL? > > Tracy Stone > Harker Heights, Tx > ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Rear Rudder Skin From: "rbjjr" I am building with kit ribs and scratch built skins. Mine bulged ever so slightly at the trailing edge at each rib. Hardly noticeable. After consulting pictures from the manual, Zenith's site, other builder's sites and the Homebuilt Help video, I'm satisfied with how things came out. Burke Johnson Irvington, VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134852#134852 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:03 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Correct "for sale" address got excited, left out one character in address...corrected version below http://www.ipass.net/ginkgo/n9612home.html Check airspeed indicator; might fit in 701. do not archive More regards, Zed ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:36 AM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: (no subject) Hey Zed: Neither address works. I can find a page at ginkgo, but can not get past that _http://www.ipass.net/gingo/n9612home.html_ (http://www.ipass.net/gingo/n9612home.html) _http://www.ipass.net/ginkgo/n9612home.html_ (http://www.ipass.net/ginkgo/n9612home.html) Lynn ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:17 AM PST US From: GM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: (no subject) http://www.ipass.net/ginkgo/N9612home.html I found it at this link. It has to be capital N in the number. GeorgeM _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 1:28 PM Subject: Zenith-List: (no subject) Hey Zed: Neither address works. I can find a page at ginkgo, but can not get past that http://www.ipass.net/gingo/n9612home.html http://www.ipass.net/ginkgo/n9612home.html Lynn _____ See what's new a_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:14 AM PST US From: "milreed" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: pilot size for 701 I am 6' 2 1/2 " and 170# and I fit fine in my finished fuselage as well as when I ride in Gordon Poer's 701. Good view from up here. Last physical I asked the nurse where I was on the chart and she said I was just on the lower edge of being over weight. So much for our health care system. DO NOT ARCHIVE, but who knows mabe it should be archived as this was the first question I asked Roger--- I was concerned and even rationalized that I could move the rudder pedals ---not necessary. Mil ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:11 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: thanks, George! Matronics kept rejecting my attempts to send the original line from an email I received. Then I tried copying the address....can't talk on phone, answer questions from half-dozen others, type emails, and eat all at the same time and monitor Caps Lock key. Anyway, for those with some spare change and the desire for an airplane that is slower than a 701, check out the address. Regard to all, do not archive Zed ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:09 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: pilot size for 701 FWIW 6' 2 1/2 " and 170# gives you a Body Mass Index of 21.5. The range of a normal BMI is 18.5 to 24.9. So you are "normal" - at least as far as your BMI goes ;-) -- Craig do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:53 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Correct "for sale" address From: "Gig Giacona" http://www.ipass.net/ginkgo/n9612home.html That ones not working either. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134872#134872 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:53 PM PST US From: Klaus Truemper Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Upper Bushing Wear - Rudder Hinge on 601 Hi Chris, You ask about recent changes/investigations. Here are two items: 1. The banjo bolt at the bottom of the crankcase holding the banjo fitting of the oil return line, several times produced trouble over the years, when the gaskets started leaking. At one time, the safety wire broke, but fortunately did not leave the bolt entirely and thus held the bolt in place. We had smoke in the cabin due to a small amount of oil having dripped onto the muffler. An immediate return to the airport saved the day. Most recently the fitting leaked again, and my AP friend at the airport cautioned me that the banjo bolt may be stretched. Indeed it was, as was evident from the elongation of the four holes in the bolt. The lesson learned here is: If the banjo bolt starts leaking, it may be wise to examine the bolt for stretching instead of just using new gaskets and reinstalling a stretched bolt. If the holes show any amount of elongation, a new bolt must be used. The torque MUST be according to Rotax spec. Do NOT guess the torque. Then use heavy-gauge safety wire to safety the bolt. Another lesson: It may be good idea to open the heater momentarily during the runup, to check for the smell of oil that may have dripped onto the muffler, say during overnight parking, and now is being vaporized. The amount of oil may be so small that it did not drip out of the cowl and thus was not detected during preflight. 2. Some years back I had improved on the original design of the 601HDS toe brakes, but this year I learned that this is not good enough at gross weight. So, starting this weekend, the toe brakes will be redesigned so that they become much more effective. When this is completed, I will add pictures and a description of the change on the website. If your 601 brakes also seem feeble to you, you may want to look and see if our changes would work for you. The change is made difficult by the size of the main brake cylinders and the way they have been attached. We want to modify the system without changing the design of the brake cylinders. That way, cylinders can be readily swapped later against new ones if that ever becomes necessary. Happy Flying, Klaus -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus@utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:13 PM PST US From: Klaus Truemper Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Upper Bushing Wear - Rudder Hinge on 601 Hi Chris, You ask about recent changes/investigations. Here are two items: 1. Several times over the years, the banjo fitting at the bottom of the Rotax 912 crankcase began leaking. Each time I reinstalled the banjo bolt with new gaskets. Most recently the fitting leaked again. My AP friend at the airport cautioned me that the banjo bolt may be stretched. Indeed it was, as was evident from the elongation of the four holes in the bolt. The lesson learned here is: If the banjo fitting starts leaking, the banjo banjo bolt must be checked for stretching instead of just using new gaskets and reinstalling a stretched bolt. If the holes show any amount of elongation, a new bolt must be used. The torque must be according to Rotax spec. Heavy-gauge safety wire should be used to safety the bolt. The usual, thin, safety wire will not stand up to the high frequency vibration of the crankcase, as I found out some years ago. It may be a good idea to open the heater momentarily during the runup, to check for smell of oil that may have dripped onto the muffler, say during overnight parking, and that is being vaporized. The effect may be produced by just a few drops of oil that are not detected during preflight. A leaking banjo fitting may be the cause. 2. Several years ago we had improved the original design of the 601HDS toe brakes, but this year we realized during a landing at gross weight and high density altitude that the brakes must be further improved. Starting this weekend, the toe brakes will be redesigned so that they become much more effective. When this is completed, pictures and a description of the change will be added to the website. Happy Flying, Klaus -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus@utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:41 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: corrupted aaddrreessee Gig and all, The "N" in the N-number needs to be CAPITALIZED. Try http:// www.ipass.net/ginkgo/N9612home. then add "h t m l " without the spaces. For some reason, if I attempt to send the entire address on one line, the Matronics system kicks it back with an advisory that you can't send an "html" or some such. For those that are weary of this subject: This is a link to a pristine 1929 Ford Tri-Motor for sale. Not having room in the budget this week, and a bleak outlook for next week, I thought possibly some of the List might snap this up. Zed ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:49 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: completion for sale, correct address! > >do not archive > > >http://www.ipass.net/ginkgo/n9612home.html > >Thought some may be interested. > >Regards to all, > >Zed > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:24 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Zenith-List: Slightly off topic: No more Zinc Chromate from Wicks Today when I placed an order for some Zinc Chromate, their sales rep advised me that Wicks will no longer carry the stuff. They will be switching to an oxide based primer. While I don't want to start another primer or scotchbrite debate, I know a good number of people use the stuff, or are still deciding what to use. Hope this is helpful, DO NOT ARCHIVE -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:23 PM PST US From: "Rob St Denis" Subject: Zenith-List: chat tonight http://chat.iahu.ca ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:28 PM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Slightly off topic: No more Zinc Chromate from Wicks > I have been using a self etch primer from a Sherman > Williams dealer. Its not their brand, but similiar > and it works very well and doesn't cost as much. The > product is called SEM costs $15 for a 15.5 oz can. > I first wash the aluminum with acrylic thinner or > acetone, then I use aluminum etch from the auto > supply store, wash it off with water let it dry, > then spray it with SEM. Works great....RJS --- John Marzulli wrote: > Today when I placed an order for some Zinc Chromate, > their sales rep advised > me that Wicks will no longer carry the stuff. They > will be switching to an > oxide based primer. > > While I don't want to start another primer or > scotchbrite debate, I know a > good number of people use the stuff, or are still > deciding what to use. > > Hope this is helpful, > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > -- > John Marzulli > http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ > > "Flying a plane is no different than riding a > bicycle... it's just a lot > harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. > -Airplane The Movie > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:35 PM PST US From: Tim Shankland Subject: Zenith-List: AOA for your Dynon For all of you who have or are thinking of buying the Dynon and think you would like to be able to use the angle of attack indicator it doesn't have to cost another $200. I bought my Dynon for the attitude display and everything else was gravy. It wasn't until after I was flying with it I even realized that it have the AOA option. Being a builder oh and cheap too, I though $200 was a lot to pay so I looked into Dynon's and other AOA devices. Well anyway I made my own probe, cost nothing time about an hour or so and I can report it works great. Attached are a couple of pictures of the installation. The trick to ease of fabrication is that I used copper tubing, easier to solder together. The pitot tube is at a right angle to the support tube and the additional tube is angled 45 degrees down. To hold it I made a slot in the circular piece of 1/8 inch aluminum, I used my mill but it can be done with a drill and careful file work.. Mine as a snug fit to which I added epoxy. By the way don't start on how that copper is going to corrode with the aluminum I keep my plane inside and dry and I haven't seen any at other interfaces in the past year. Tim Shankland ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:50 PM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: Zenith-List: VW engine and parts for sale or trade Ok guys, what I have is 1 full 2180 and one partial 2180. The one full 2180 has a tapered crank and prop hub, magnesium alloy case, bored and cleared, cylinder and heads and pistons, connecting rods, exhaust (a complete engine) and intake stubs from Great Plains. It has about 4 hrs of run time and is presently fully disassemble. The second is a brand new aluminum case for a 2180, new crank for a 2180, new timing pulley, new Aero carb for 2180vw, starter and new flywheel and prop hub for rear direct drive, also new 2.3 to 1 planetary gear box for rear drive, all gaskets and seals, new bearing for main and cam, compufire ignition system and who know what else odds and ends I am forgetting. New Grand Rapids EIS with altitude, fuel flow, manifold pressure and probably some stuff I am forgetting to mention but all the standard EIS stuff. What I am looking for is a couple of Half VW's for trade. Disassembled is ok but must be in good and complete condition. I would prefer in current flyable conditon and larger displacemnt. I would consider a 28hp model and a 37hp versions with no carbs or ignition in trade but must be complete and in flyable (good/excellent condition) for trade. I am also open to a 37hp half VW complete and cash or two stroke engine in lew of cash. All engines for trade must be in good/flyable condtion and come with prop. David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:55 PM PST US From: howado1@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: elevator balancing Has anybody had experience with balancing an elevator? Any info would be appreciated. Howard Carter CH701 30% ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:21 PM PST US From: fred sanford Subject: Zenith-List: Slightly off topic. No more zinc chromate from Wicks Zinc chromate is still available from a boating store on the east coast, and reasonable - about $25 per quart. http://www.kirbypaint.com/index.html Fred Sanford 80% N9601 Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.