Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:48 AM - Re: Re: Non-LSA ops limits (Malcolm Hunt)
2. 05:33 AM - Re: Scammers (Ryan Vechinski)
3. 05:50 AM - Re: Non-LSA ops limits (dfmoeller)
4. 07:22 AM - Re: Engines (Paul Tipton)
5. 07:32 AM - Re: Re: Torque Chart (japhillipsga@aol.com)
6. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: Torque Chart ()
7. 10:22 AM - Re: Re: Electronics (japhillipsga@AOL.COM)
8. 11:20 AM - Re: Re: Electronics (Dan Lykowski)
9. 11:59 AM - Re: Electronics (Geoff Heap)
10. 12:07 PM - Re: Re: Electronics (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
11. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: Electronics (japhillipsga@aol.com)
12. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: Electronics (Dan Lykowski)
13. 03:35 PM - Re: Re: Electronics (george may)
14. 04:39 PM - Re: Reconsideration of mission + intro (long) (LarryMcFarland)
15. 05:13 PM - Re: AOA for your Dynon (Dave Nixon)
16. 06:54 PM - Engine Comparison (Randy Stout)
17. 07:32 PM - Re: Re: AOA for your Dynon (Tim Shankland)
18. 07:53 PM - Re: Engine Comparison (Craig Payne)
19. 09:41 PM - Re: Re: AOA for your Dynon (Larry Winger)
20. 10:25 PM - MGL Avionics Enigma (Shane Norwood)
21. 10:42 PM - Reconsideration of mission and corvair power (Robert Loer)
22. 11:39 PM - Re: MGL Avionics Enigma (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Non-LSA ops limits |
Doug
I have looked at the two sets of drawings (Zenith v CZAW) and the
dimensions of the CZAW engine mount (Rotax) are almost identical the Zenith,
CZAW do have an aluminium prop extension.
More of interest is that the CZAW aircraft have a different angle of
incidence of the wing. Looking at drawing 6-B-13 and the wing template the
angles on the Zenith drawing are 81deg and 77.5 deg but on the CZAW drawing
are 83deg and 75.5deg. This is why there is a difference in cof g limits,
according to UK agent this had been agreed with Chris Heintz. My view when
it comes to aerodynamics in all cases Build to the Drawings!
Best regards
Malcolm Hunt
CH601XL Plans builder in England.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dfmoeller" <dfmoeller@austin.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:03 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non-LSA ops limits
>
> As to the Cg limitation, I asked the guys at Zenith this very question a
> couple of months ago. The answer was that the Cg limits do not vary with
> loading, although if you do a search on this board, someone posted some
> English certifications that did, indeed, vary the Cg limits with weight.
> This was with the CZAW built plane though, I believe, and they mount the
> engine considerably further forward, or that is my understanding.
>
> Doug
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135371#135371
>
>
>
Message 2
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For those of you interested in this thread:
I have found an amusing website detailing exactly was is being talked about
below. I am not advocating this website, but just feel that if you are in
terested in what is being discussed it could be worth-while visiting.
The website discusses just how an "average Joe" can cause these scammers to
waste time and money on someone who knows it's a scam (and thus won't be s
cammed), so the scammers don't have time to try to sucker someone else in.
http://www.419eater.com/index.htm
do not archive
From: 601zv@ritternet.comTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-L
ist: ScammersDate: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:29:31 -0500
That's exactly why they are still around. Because most make no effort to st
op them. C'mon guys, it only takes a second to say yes and make'm spend the
ir ill-begotton gains for naught.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scammers
Except that now your now confirmed email address is probably on every scamm
ers target list, which I'm sure they share will all their scum counterparts
and make enough to offset the cost of postage. C'mon guys -- just delete '
em. This scam has been around for years, and will likely continue long afte
r we're all plant food.definitely do not archiveRobin Bellach <601zv@ritter
net.com> wrote:
I apologize for perpetuating a topic probably not appropriate to this list,
but would encourage all to adopt my policy concerning these scammers. My p
olicy is turn the tables on'm and hit'm in the pocketbook, so to speak. It
only takes a second to respond to their emails and say yes send me the mone
y. But they have a considerable investment of time and money in delivering.
If everyone did this, they soon would have their expenses exceeding their
income. Of the many thousands of dollars of these funny money money orders
in my collection, all are sent by expensive overnight delivery from the U.S
., or at a minimum international postal rate (mostly from UK), all for abou
t the second it takes me to say yes at no expense whatever to me, and hardl
y any more time than it takes to delete the message.
----- Original Message -----
From: robert stone
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:57 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Scammers
Members,
I have seen a good many posts concerning the activity of scammers and
have this to say about that. Most of the scammers are operating out of the
UK or Nigeria. The most common scam is, be our agent un the US. They sen
d money orders to you from their clients here in the US telling you that US
Money orders cannot be cashed outside of the country and this is true. Th
ey ask you to go to your bank deposit the money orders, take out 10% send t
he rest of the money to them. In all cases the money orders are no good an
d the local US Post Office has a little hand held machine that they use to
prove they are no good. The name of the game is, if you receive funds from
anyone claiming anything, make sure the instrument is good before you do a
nything else. You will find that in l00% of the time it's nothing but an a
ttempt to cheat you out of your money. Honest people are the easiest peopl
e to cheat because they think because they are honest, everyone else is too
.
Tracy Stone
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matro
nhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Non-LSA ops limits |
Malcolm,
I'd be very interested in what the CZAW drawings actually do show for the Rotax
mount. I got my info from a earlier post last year on this thread about a guy
moving his engine forward to correct the rearward weight bias of the Rotax 601XL
via use of the CZAW mount. Caleb at Zenith also confirmed this to me in
some correspondence at the first of this year. He indicated at that time (January),
that the lightweight FF Rotax package would mount further forward and told
me just to sit tight for a bit. I still have the email. Do me a favor, search
this forum for posts with my user name (dfmoeller). At the bottom of the
list look at these threads:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=24172&highlight
New "European XL" from Zenith?
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=11210&highlight
Weight & Balance
I'm really curious now just what the deal actually is. I am in the middle of a
large rebuilding project on mine and was hoping to rectify the weight issue by
mounting the engine further forward. I also would really like to know how the
new lightweight engine mount is formed. Take my word for it, if you are scratchbuilding,
do everything you can to put a forward bias on the weight. Also,
if using the Zenith gear, mount them in the forward position.
Any chance you could scan a section of the CZAW drawings?
Doug
malcolmhunt(at)mha1.fsbus wrote:
> Doug
>
> I have looked at the two sets of drawings (Zenith v CZAW) and the
> dimensions of the CZAW engine mount (Rotax) are almost identical the Zenith,
> CZAW do have an aluminium prop extension.
>
> More of interest is that the CZAW aircraft have a different angle of
> incidence of the wing. Looking at drawing 6-B-13 and the wing template the
> angles on the Zenith drawing are 81deg and 77.5 deg but on the CZAW drawing
> are 83deg and 75.5deg. This is why there is a difference in cof g limits,
> according to UK agent this had been agreed with Chris Heintz. My view when
> it comes to aerodynamics in all cases Build to the Drawings!
> Best regards
>
> Malcolm Hunt
>
> CH601XL Plans builder in England.
>
> ---
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135634#135634
Message 4
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Rotax 912ULS - 150 hours - changed oil at 25, 50, 100 and 150 hours.
Changed plugs at 50, 100, and 150 hours... probably overkill. It has
never run hot, never added oil, never missed a beat, no failed
anything.
321PT
CH701
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Chart |
Jim and Ed Thanks for the info, Bill
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Machin <jim.machin@gat.com>
Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 3:55 pm
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Torque Chart
You can get it in the latest Construction Standards for Zenair Light Aircraft in
the photo update section on the Zenith web site.
?
Jim Machin
601XL quick build /0-200????????????????????????????????????????????????
?
?
?
?
-Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of japhillipsga@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Torque Chart
?
Ed, I've torn the whole damned shop apart trying to find my chart for bolt torque
settings. I think the dog must have ate it. You have one you can fax or e-mail
me ? Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: dredmoody@cox.net
Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 2:12 pm
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
?
While we're at it, builders should consider the AF-3400 and AF-3500 units from
Advanced Flight Systems. The 3400 has a 6.5" diagonal screen, the 3500 has an
8.4 " diagonal screen. Both are available as an EFIS unit, an EIS unit or as a
combo. When two units are installed, they are combine-able and swap-able via
ethernet link. Both offer internal battery backup and they datalog to an SD card
accessible in the panel face of the units.No need for a laptop in the right
seat.
?
Dred
?
?
?
?
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
?
?
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
http://forums.matronics.com
?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Chart |
---- japhillipsga@aol.com wrote:
>
> Jim and Ed Thanks for the info, Bill
>
> do not archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Machin <jim.machin@gat.com>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 3:55 pm
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Torque Chart
>
>
>
>
>
> You can get it in the latest Construction Standards for Zenair Light Aircraft
in the photo update section on the Zenith web site.
>
> ?
>
> Jim Machin
>
> 601XL quick build /0-200????????????????????????????????????????????????
>
> ?
>
> ?
>
> ?
>
> ?
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of japhillipsga@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:35 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Torque Chart
>
> ?
>
> Ed, I've torn the whole damned shop apart trying to find my chart for bolt torque
settings. I think the dog must have ate it. You have one you can fax or e-mail
me ? Bill
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dredmoody@cox.net
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 2:12 pm
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
>
>
>
> ?
>
> While we're at it, builders should consider the AF-3400 and AF-3500 units from
>
> Advanced Flight Systems. The 3400 has a 6.5" diagonal screen, the 3500 has an
>
> 8.4 " diagonal screen. Both are available as an EFIS unit, an EIS unit or as
a
>
> combo. When two units are installed, they are combine-able and swap-able via
>
> ethernet link. Both offer internal battery backup and they datalog to an SD card
>
> accessible in the panel face of the units.No need for a laptop in the right
>
> seat.
>
> ?
>
> Dred
>
> ?
>
> ?
>
> ?
>
> ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>
>
> ?
>
> ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 7
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Geoff, I am interested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm building. My concerns are
is it really big enough to see. I measured and the eyeball to panel distance is
almost four feet. I don't want to be squinting trying to see some little light
bar so far away they all run together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180
won't keep up with a plane doing anything other than "airliner type" flying.?That
it is too slow and is always trying to catch up ??I just have not had the
opportunity to talk to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon
a bunch of money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam
gages and such as back up? Thanks and best regards, Bill
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Heap <stol10@comcast.net>
Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
Your own words Don
"Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But the
jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? "
If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. Bells and
whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined EFIS/enigine
monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, pitot
tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying to sell
Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the
Inigma.....Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 8
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Bill,=0A The D180 will handle changes of up to 150deg per second in pitc
h roll and yaw ( This is the same for ALL of the non certified EFIS units c
urrently on the market since we all use the same gyros ). The unit your fri
end has to be talking about is the original D10 ( not to be confused with t
he modern D10a. ) If you really want to see the responsiveness I suggest co
ming to visit us at an airshow or finding someone who has a Dynon already i
nstalled. (Should be pretty easy to do) I believe you will find the D180 mo
re than adequate for all but the most aggressive maneuvers. If you do manag
e to saturate the Gyros, it takes only a few seconds (3) of straight and le
vel flight for them to auto erect. During this time, the EFIS will do its b
est to provide an accurate attitude display.=0AThe D180 is very easy to rea
d at 4ft. If you call our office I'm sure we could send you a panel mock up
.=0A=0AI hope this is helpful.=0A=0ADan Lykowski=0ADynon Avionics=0A601xl B
uilder with Corvair=0A=0ADO NOT ARCHIVE=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0A
From: "japhillipsga@aol.com" <japhillipsga@aol.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matro
nics.com=0ASent: Friday, September 21, 2007 10:21:21 AM=0ASubject: Re: Zeni
th-List: Re: Electronics=0A=0AGeoff, I am interested in the D180 for the RV
-8a I'm building. My concerns are is it really big enough to see. I measure
d and the eyeball to panel distance is almost four feet. I don't want to be
squinting trying to see some little light bar so far away they all run tog
ether. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won't keep up with a plane doing
anything other than "airliner type" flying. That it is too slow and is alw
ays trying to catch up ? I just have not had the opportunity to talk to any
one actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon a bunch of money I h
ope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam gages and such as ba
ck up? Thanks and best regards, Bill=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-
----Original Message-----=0A=0AFrom: Geoff Heap <stol10@comcast.net>=0A=0AT
o: zenith-list@matronics.com=0A=0ASent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pm=0A=0ASubje
ct: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--> Zenith-List message p
osted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>=0A=0AYour own words Don=0A"Also
, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But the
=0Ajabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? "=0A
=0AIf you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. B
ells and =0Awhistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combin
ed EFIS/enigine =0Amonitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, b
attery backup, pitot =0Atube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, f
or $4180. Not trying to sell =0ADynon here. Most of the competition looks g
ood. I almost bought the =0AInigma.....Geoff=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic
online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#1355
39=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AEmail and AIM finally togeth
======================0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A_____________________________________________________
_______________________________=0AYahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
=0Athat gives answers, not web links. =0Ahttp://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/
onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
Message 9
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Bill, I can't comment on performance as I have not hooked it up yet. I was shocked
when I took it out of the box and pressed a button and it came to life. I
had forgotten about the installed battery backup. I can say that I was impressed
with the clarity and brightness. Also, it looks big enough for me. I am considering
a few smaller than normal backups. Tach, oil pressure...Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135670#135670
Message 10
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<<, I am interested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm building. My concerns are
is it really big enough to see. I measured and the eyeball to panel distance
is almost four feet. I>>>>
Four feet sounds like LOT! You could never reach it without getting out of
your seat!
Dave
Message 11
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Dan, thanks for the info. I'm sure the 180 would handle my "airline pilot" style
of flying, but I might break lose and get weird again. I would be thrilled to
have a mock up just to be sure I can see it while seated in the 8a. What number
should I call to beg for one ? Also, how is your XL coming along ? I finished
mine a couple years ago and fly most every weekend. If I can be of any help
please don't hesitate to contact me. Best regards, Bill
do not archive?
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Lykowski <engineerguy3737@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 2:19 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
Bill,
??? The D180 will handle changes of up to 150deg per second in pitch roll and yaw
( This is the same for ALL of the non certified EFIS units currently on the
market since we all use the same gyros ). The unit your friend has to be talking
about is the original D10 ( not to be confused with the modern D10a. ) If
you really want to see the responsiveness I suggest coming to visit us at an airshow
or finding someone who has a Dynon already installed. (Should be pretty
easy to do) I believe you will find the D180 more than adequate for all but the
most aggressive maneuvers. If you do manage to saturate the Gyros, it takes
only a few seconds (3) of straight and level flight for them to auto erect. During
this time, the EFIS will do its best to provide an accurate attitude display.
The D180 is very easy to read at 4ft. If you call our office I'm sure we could
send you a panel mock up.
I hope this is helpful.
Dan Lykowski
Dynon Avionics
601xl Builder with Corvair
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message ----
From: "japhillipsga@aol.com" <japhillipsga@aol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 10:21:21 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
Geoff, I am interested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm building. My concerns are
is it really big enough to see. I measured and the eyeball to panel distance is
almost four feet. I don't want to be squinting trying to see some little light
bar so far away they all run together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180
won't keep up with a plane doing anything other than "airliner type" flying.?That
it is too slow and is always trying to catch up ??I just have not had the
opportunity to talk to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon
a bunch of money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam
gages and such as back up? Thanks and best regards, Bill
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Heap <stol10@comcast.net>
Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics
Your own words Don
"Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But the
jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? "
If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. Bells and
whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined EFIS/enigine
monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, pitot
tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying to sell
Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought
the
Inigma.....Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
fall's hot new shows
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________________________________________________________________________
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Message 12
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Bill,=0A I think you would be surprised at how well the D180 will handle
you getting 'weird'.=0A=0A Dynon's phone number is: (425) 402-0433.=0A
The diagrams are also available on our website.=0A www.dynonavionics
.com=0A=0A I've finished my tail kit, and I have dissassembled/cleaned m
y engine. My wings will be here on the 26th of September. I ordered all of
the options so I had to hide the checkbook from the wife for a few weeks. :
)=0A Thanks for the offer for help!=0A=0ADan Lykowski=0ADynon Avionics
=0A601xl Builder with Corvair=0A=0ADO NOT ARCHIVE=0A=0A=0A----- Original Me
ssage ----=0AFrom: "japhillipsga@aol.com" <japhillipsga@aol.com>=0ATo: zeni
th-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:16:58 PM=0ASubj
ect: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics=0A=0A=0ADan, thanks for the info. I'm
sure the 180 would handle my "airline pilot" style of flying, but I might
break lose and get weird again. I would be thrilled to have a mock up just
to be sure I can see it while seated in the 8a. What number should I call t
o beg for one ? Also, how is your XL coming along ? I finished mine a coupl
e years ago and fly most every weekend. If I can be of any help please don'
t hesitate to contact me. Best regards, Bill=0A=0A=0A=0Ado not archive =0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A=0AFrom: Dan Lykowski <engineer
guy3737@yahoo.com>=0A=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0A=0ASent: Fri, 21 Se
p 2007 2:19 pm=0A=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ABill,=0A=0A The D180 will handle changes o
f up to 150deg per second in pitch roll and yaw ( This is the same for ALL
of the non certified EFIS units currently on the market since we all use th
e same gyros ). The unit your friend has to be talking about is the origina
l D10 ( not to be confused with the modern D10a. ) If you really want to se
e the responsiveness I suggest coming to visit us at an airshow or finding
someone who has a Dynon already installed. (Should be pretty easy to do) I
believe you will find the D180 more than adequate for all but the most aggr
essive maneuvers. If you do manage to saturate the Gyros, it takes only a f
ew seconds (3) of straight and level flight for them to auto erect. During
this time, the EFIS will do its best to provide an accurate attitude displa
y.=0A=0AThe D180 is very easy to read at 4ft. If you call our office I'm su
re we could send you a panel mock up.=0A=0A=0A=0AI hope this is helpful.=0A
=0A=0A=0ADan Lykowski=0A=0ADynon Avionics=0A=0A601xl Builder with Corvair
=0A=0A=0A=0ADO NOT ARCHIVE=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0A
=0AFrom: "japhillipsga@aol.com" <japhillipsga@aol.com>=0A=0ATo: zenith-list
@matronics.com=0A=0ASent: Friday, September 21, 2007 10:21:21 AM=0A=0ASubje
ct: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics=0A=0A=0A=0AGeoff, I am interested in t
he D180 for the RV-8a I'm building. My concerns are is it really big enough
to see. I measured and the eyeball to panel distance is almost four feet.
I don't want to be squinting trying to see some little light bar so far awa
y they all run together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won't keep up
with a plane doing anything other than "airliner type" flying. That it is t
oo slow and is always trying to catch up ? I just have not had the opportun
ity to talk to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon a
bunch of money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam ga
ges and such as back up? Thanks and best regards, Bill=0A=0Ado not archive
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A=0AFrom: Geoff Heap <stol10@
comcast.net>=0A=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0A=0ASent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007
5:27 pm=0A=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--> Ze
nith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>=0A=0A=0A=0AY
our own words Don=0A=0A"Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the b
ells and whistles, But the =0A=0Ajabiru site shows an instrument panel for
around $2000. THoughts? "=0A=0A=0A=0AIf you price ANY basic dynon unit (exc
ept D180) it's ALSO about $2000. Bells and =0A=0Awhistles will crank up any
one's price. I bought the D180 combined EFIS/enigine =0A=0Amonitoring syste
m plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, pitot =0A=0Atube, re
mote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying to sell =0A
=0ADynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought=0A the
=0A=0AInigma.....Geoff=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online
here:=0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#13553
9=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0AEmail and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
Mail!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Afall's hot new shows on Yah
oo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A _____________________________________________
_______________________________________=0ATonight's top picks. What will yo
u watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.=0Ahttp://tv.yahoo.
com/ =0A
Message 13
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Bill--
I'm flying the 601xl with the D100 as my main flight instruments and the D
180 mounted on the passenger side for my engine instrumentation and EFIS ba
ckup. No problem seeing any of the instrument reading of the D180 from the
pilot seat, either with or without split screen.
George May
601XL 912s 150hrs
Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:21:21 -0400From: japhillipsga@aol.comGeoff, I am inter
ested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm building. My concerns are is it really
big enough to see. I measured and the eyeball to panel distance is almost f
our feet. I don't want to be squinting trying to see some little light bar
so far away they all run together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won'
t keep up with a plane doing anything other than "airliner type" flying. Th
at it is too slow and is always trying to catch up ? I just have not had th
e opportunity to talk to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr
. Dynon a bunch of money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backu
p steam gages and such as back up? Thanks and best regards, Billdo not arch
ive-----Original Message-----From: Geoff Heap <stol10@comcast.net>To: zenit
h-list@matronics.comSent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pmSubject: Zenith-List: Re:
Electronics
Your own words Don
"Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But
the
jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? "
If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. Bell
s and
whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined EFIS/enig
ine
monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, pito
t
tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying to
sell
Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the
Inigma.....Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Reconsideration of mission + intro (long) |
smoore wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been doing research about AB-EX planes for nearly a year now and was CONVINCED
a Sonex w/Aerovee was MY airplane. I live in CO and figured I could just
use the wonderfully long runways we have here in the USA to overcome any DA
problems.
>
> - Day/(occasional) Night VFR
> - 2up, full fuel, camping gear.
> - tie down outside in CO in flying season, trailer able for backyard storage.
> - low fuel consumption and *maintenance* costs.
> - mainly "sunday flying" with the occasional camping XC
> - ability to attend fly-ins
>
> Sean Moore
> ... re-evaluating mission
>
Sean,
1. With a 701, you're going to have to start much earlier in the
morning for that fly-in breakfast if you want to eat with the RV pilots.
2. The Rotax is a good engine, yes expensive, periodically troublesome
for people who don't enjoy knowing engines. No economy here. Try Jabaru
2200.
2-s Costs for parts-Rotax are in keeping with Lyc and Cont. But,
you'll have to self educate to survive any engine, air or water cooled.
3. Better to buy a used VW or new Jabaru 2200 or HKS.
4. Corvair is too small for an 801 and too large for practical use in a
701. You need cooling speed to keep the Corvair healthy which the 701
doesn't.
Lots of alternate engines out there, only a few that are sized and
priced right.
5. The 801 needs 135 hp or more to fly well and it might just as well be
a Lyc, or an auto conversion, but then you'll have to pay a lot more
attention to details for
cooling, fuel mixture, ignition and mounting. Still, there's a lot
positive to be said about water cooled alternatives and you'd still need
to study a bit.
6. Do get the private licence, bust your budget and go for it. You'll
not be sorry.
Comment: I believe you should buy an aircraft like a T-craft or
Luscombe or whatever and fly it for the license and then sell it when
you decide on the best candidate
for your flying needs. Then you'll know enough to bounce the questions
off your own experience. Building is a big deal, that you haven't
mentioned, much bigger deal than you know. It can bite you if you're
not prepared for a project.
Good luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS plans built at www.macsmachine.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: AOA for your Dynon |
I guess the point is that I want to use the AOA on the Dynon without adding another
pitot. Will not the static tube that Zenith provided work for the AOA on
the Dynon? Reqading the Duynon test procedures, it just 'senses' the difference
between dynamic and static in different settings so that it tells the on board
computer what is going on in different flight configurations. I believe that
the Zenith supplied static tube would fullfill this requirement. But I don't
know for sure.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135692#135692
Message 16
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| Subject: | Engine Comparison |
Some of you already know that I have had 3 different engines on my
Zodiac
(CH601HD) . The current engine is a Jabiru 3300 and I just took the
plane
out of Phase 1 testing. To celebrate, I took my wife on a short cross
country to to Fredericksburg TX (T82) for lunch. They have a nice diner
and
a hotel on the field.
The first engine was a VW with a redrive. The VW may work for other
airframes, but I think most would be disappointed with it. A Corvair is
cheaper and provides much more power. My highest speed with the VW was
just
under 90 mph. Others have had slightly better speeds without the
redrive,
but their takeoff roll is much longer. The redrive provided a very
short
takeoff roll and a very fast climb to 1000' AGL, then you had to back
off
the throttle to let the engine cool down. Any attempt to climb after
that
was done in small steps or a very gradually.
The Corvair and the Jabiru 3300 are very similar in performance. My WOT
speed seem to be about 5 mph faster with the Jabiru @ 127 mph. I usually
cruised at 3000 rpm when I had the Corvair installed. My cruise speed
was
usually around 107-110 mph. The Jabiru is getting about the same speed
at
2850 rpm. Fuel burn seems to be similar. On my trip to T82 today, I
stayed
pretty close to 3000 rpm and the fuel burn was 6.8 gph. I don't have a
fuel
flow sender. Fuel burn is calculated by sticking the tanks after flying.
I'm
not sure why, but the Jab has a bit longer take off roll. That might be
due
to my foot having to be firmly planted on the right rudder pedal because
of
P- factor. I don't have sufficient offset in the engine mount and I need
a
lot of right rudder when taking off. After I level off, it's not a
problem.
I had a lot of offset on the Corvair, so P-factor wasn't a problem.
Weight
appears to be the biggest difference. My plane lost just over 70 lbs
with
the change to the Jabiru. My wallet got much lighter too.
The Jabiru seems to be more sensitive to cooling. I think some of that
lies
in the cowling design especially in climb. The top of the cowl openings
slope backwards and I think the air skips over the cowl instead of being
forced in. I have heard that someone attached some Plexiglas deflectors
to
scoop air when in a climb. I plan on making some after I get some paint
on
the cowl.
Carbs--I am not impressed with the Bing. Mine had the economy tuning kit
installed. My EGT's were uneven and would go too high if I let the rpm
drop
below 2850. CHT's were difficult to keep under control. The plugs always
looked like the mixture was too rich. I put my Ellison on and everything
changed. I can enrichen or lean the mixture to keep the EGT's at
1350-1400 F
in cruise or WOT. CHT's are running around 280-290 F except on the front
2
cylinders. They frequently run around 315 F. I don't see why they would
be
the hottest. I noticed that most people have a piece of sheet metal
mounted
vertical in front of those 2 cylinders and it is nearly the same height
as
the cylinder. I need to duplicate that to see if it makes a difference.
My
Plexiglas deflectors may also help when I get them installed.
I'm planning on flying to Copperstate next month, then on to Las Vegas.
If
everything goes as planned, I hope to be arriving at the air show, late
Thursday, then departing Saturday afternoon for Vegas. Hope to see you
all
there.
Randy Stout
San Antonio TX
<http://www.geocities.com/n282rs> www.geocities.com/n282rs
n282rs at satx.rr.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: AOA for your Dynon |
Dave,
The way the AOA works is by doing a sum of the vector magnitudes of two
pitots. If there is no difference in the orientation of the probes you
cannot resolve that angle. The AOA does not use the static port that is
used for airspeed the AOA uses the differential between the two probes.
The AOA is not measuring the airspeed but the angle at which the air is
approaching the wing. This angle can be correlated with the stall of the
wing.
Tim Shankland
Dave Nixon wrote:
>
>I guess the point is that I want to use the AOA on the Dynon without adding another
pitot. Will not the static tube that Zenith provided work for the AOA on
the Dynon? Reqading the Duynon test procedures, it just 'senses' the difference
between dynamic and static in different settings so that it tells the on board
computer what is going on in different flight configurations. I believe that
the Zenith supplied static tube would fullfill this requirement. But I don't
know for sure.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135692#135692
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Engine Comparison |
> Some of you already know that I have had 3 different engines on my
Zodiac (CH601HD) .
Can we pass the hat and buy Randy a Rotax so he can complete his survey?
Thanks for the comparison of the Bing and the Ellison - I'll keep your
experience in mind in the future.
-- Craig
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: AOA for your Dynon |
I don't have my Dynon unit yet, but I've been doing research and actually
purchased the combo pitot/AOA probe from them. Don't confuse the static
source and the AOA portion of the probe. They are completely different in
size, shape and orientation.
As I understand it, the AOA computation is derived solely from inputs from
the pitot tube (horizontal) and the AOA port tube (pointed approx. 45
degrees down), both located in the same combo probe. The pressure
differential mirrors what is happening with the wing. Your static source is
a different animal and can be achieved in several ways, but they are not
related to AOA.
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
601XL/Corvair
On 9/21/07, Dave Nixon <adnasap@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> I guess the point is that I want to use the AOA on the Dynon without
> adding another pitot. Will not the static tube that Zenith provided work
> for the AOA on the Dynon? Reqading the Duynon test procedures, it just
> 'senses' the difference between dynamic and static in different settings so
> that it tells the on board computer what is going on in different flight
> configurations. I believe that the Zenith supplied static tube would
> fullfill this requirement. But I don't know for sure.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135692#135692
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | MGL Avionics Enigma |
Hello Everyone,
I have the opportunity to purchase a MGL Avionics Enigma EFIS for a very
good price. I like what I've seen so far on the company website, but I'd
like to hear from anyone who owns this unit or has seen it in action? Any
observations, thoughts or opinions are appreciated.
Thanks,
Shane
Message 21
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| Subject: | Reconsideration of mission and corvair power |
IT WAS WRITTEN:
> 4. Corvair is too small for an 801 and too large for practical use in a
> 701. You need cooling speed to keep the Corvair healthy which the 701
> doesn't.
Lets not count out the Corvair yet in the 701. William Wynne in Florida
and his crew that have been very successful with the 601 have a 701 under
construction with a Corvair mounted. In a few months we will have real world
experience.
Robert Loer
Message 22
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| Subject: | MGL Avionics Enigma |
I have one but have not flown it yet. Consider asking your question on the
Stratomaster user-to-user group on Yahoo:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stratomaster_users_group/join
Depending on where you live you may be able to see one near you.
Also there is an interesting thread on the Van's Air Force forum with two
guys at the same airport: one installing an Enigma and the other a Dynon:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?postid=154444#poststop
And of course you can download the simulator/screen-designer and play with
Enigma on your PC:
http://www.mglavionics.co.za/Software/EnigmaSimulator.exe
-- Craig
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