---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/22/07: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:10 AM - Re: Engine Comparison (Paul Mulwitz) 2. 06:03 AM - Re: Jabiru 2200A and Ch 701 (kmccune) 3. 06:28 AM - Re: AOA for your Dynon (Dave Nixon) 4. 06:29 AM - Re: AOA for your Dynon (Dave Nixon) 5. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: AOA for your Dynon (Larry Winger) 6. 06:42 AM - 701 cowl tank addition? (kmccune) 7. 07:22 AM - Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power (LarryMcFarland) 8. 07:26 AM - Re: 701 cowl tank addition? (ZodieRocket) 9. 07:40 AM - Re: 701 cowl tank addition? (LarryMcFarland) 10. 07:52 AM - Re: Engine Comparison (Randy Stout) 11. 08:21 AM - Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power (leinad) 12. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power (WHC228@aol.com) 13. 08:45 AM - Re: Engine Comparison (WHC228@aol.com) 14. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power (LarryMcFarland) 15. 09:07 AM - Re: Re: Electronics (Juan Vega) 16. 10:06 AM - Re: Engine Comparison (Paul Mulwitz) 17. 10:06 AM - Re: First flight, test pilot, dual time (kmccune) 18. 10:41 AM - Navion N8844H (Ken Arnold) 19. 11:06 AM - 701 and E-LSA and S-LSA and maintenance (kmccune) 20. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power (Robert Loer) 21. 01:28 PM - New 95hp engine design. (kmccune) 22. 01:41 PM - Re: 701 cowl tank addition? (David Downey) 23. 03:46 PM - Re: 701 cowl tank addition? (JohnDRead@aol.com) 24. 04:15 PM - Re: 701 and E-LSA and S-LSA and maintenance (Bryan Martin) 25. 04:35 PM - Re: 701 and E-LSA and S-LSA and maintenance (kmccune) 26. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power (Southern Reflections) 27. 04:59 PM - Re: Re: Electronics (Southern Reflections) 28. 05:59 PM - Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power (jetboy) 29. 07:45 PM - Re: Re: Electronics (Juan Vega) 30. 08:36 PM - Re: Re: Electronics (Southern Reflections) 31. 08:56 PM - Re: Re: Electronics (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:42 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Comparison Hi Randy, Thank you for the great engine comparison. I wonder if you could answer a couple of questions about the Corvair and Jabiru differences. First, did you use the same propeller for both engines? If you have an adjustable propeller did you use the same settings? The other question I have is why you changed from the Corvair to the Jabiru. If I understood the point about phase 1 testing, it seems you went through all three engines before completing phase 1. Is this true? Or, did you need to go back into phase 1 testing when you changed engines? Thanks, Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 07:57 PM 9/21/2007, you wrote: >Some of you already know that I have had 3 different engines on my >Zodiac (CH601HD) . The current engine is a Jabiru 3300 and I just >took the plane out of Phase 1 testing. To celebrate, I took my wife >on a short cross country to to Fredericksburg TX (T82) for lunch. >They have a nice diner and a hotel on the field. > >The first engine was a VW with a redrive. The VW may work for other >airframes, but I think most would be disappointed with it. A Corvair >is cheaper and provides much more power. My highest speed with the >VW was just under 90 mph. Others have had slightly better speeds >without the redrive, but their takeoff roll is much longer. The >redrive provided a very short takeoff roll and a very fast climb to >1000' AGL, then you had to back off the throttle to let the engine >cool down. Any attempt to climb after that was done in small steps >or a very gradually. > >The Corvair and the Jabiru 3300 are very similar in performance. My >WOT speed seem to be about 5 mph faster with the Jabiru @ 127 mph. I >usually cruised at 3000 rpm when I had the Corvair installed. My >cruise speed was usually around 107-110 mph. The Jabiru is getting >about the same speed at 2850 rpm. Fuel burn seems to be similar. On >my trip to T82 today, I stayed pretty close to 3000 rpm and the fuel >burn was 6.8 gph. I don't have a fuel flow sender. Fuel burn is >calculated by sticking the tanks after flying. I'm not sure why, but >the Jab has a bit longer take off roll. That might be due to my foot >having to be firmly planted on the right rudder pedal because of P- >factor. I don't have sufficient offset in the engine mount and I >need a lot of right rudder when taking off. After I level off, it's >not a problem. I had a lot of offset on the Corvair, so P-factor >wasn't a problem. Weight appears to be the biggest difference. My >plane lost just over 70 lbs with the change to the Jabiru. My wallet >got much lighter too. > >The Jabiru seems to be more sensitive to cooling. I think some of >that lies in the cowling design especially in climb. The top of the >cowl openings slope backwards and I think the air skips over the >cowl instead of being forced in. I have heard that someone attached >some Plexiglas deflectors to scoop air when in a climb. I plan on >making some after I get some paint on the cowl. > >Carbs--I am not impressed with the Bing. Mine had the economy tuning >kit installed. My EGT's were uneven and would go too high if I let >the rpm drop below 2850. CHT's were difficult to keep under control. >The plugs always looked like the mixture was too rich. I put my >Ellison on and everything changed. I can enrichen or lean the >mixture to keep the EGT's at 1350-1400 F in cruise or WOT. CHT's are >running around 280-290 F except on the front 2 cylinders. They >frequently run around 315 F. I don't see why they would be the >hottest. I noticed that most people have a piece of sheet metal >mounted vertical in front of those 2 cylinders and it is nearly the >same height as the cylinder. I need to duplicate that to see if it >makes a difference. My Plexiglas deflectors may also help when I get >them installed. > >I'm planning on flying to Copperstate next month, then on to Las >Vegas. If everything goes as planned, I hope to be arriving at the >air show, late Thursday, then departing Saturday afternoon for >Vegas. Hope to see you all there. > >Randy Stout >San Antonio TX >www.geocities.com/n282rs >n282rs at satx.rr.com > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jabiru 2200A and Ch 701 From: "kmccune" Sorry for taking so long to reply...I lost my password. The kit is available for both engines as stated in the link. -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135738#135738 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AOA for your Dynon From: "Dave Nixon" Thanks. Now I get it. So I can modify the Zenith Static probe ( cut off the plug and bend down 45 degrees approximate and plug the small static ports drilled into the tube) to get the desired results. then I can add a static system similar to what Cessna has on the sides of the fuselage. Thanks for the input which should eliminate hours of aggravation. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135741#135741 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:38 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: AOA for your Dynon From: "Dave Nixon" Thanks, Larry. See my previous response to Tim. Your info has helped immensely. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135742#135742 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:42 AM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: AOA for your Dynon In theory, that could work. You might want to check with Dynon for specs on the angle, distance between ports, etc. Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL/Corvair On 9/22/07, Dave Nixon wrote: > > > Thanks. Now I get it. So I can modify the Zenith Static probe ( cut off > the plug and bend down 45 degrees approximate and plug the small static > ports drilled into the tube) to get the desired results. then I can add a > static system similar to what Cessna has on the sides of the > fuselage. Thanks for the input which should eliminate hours of aggravation. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135741#135741 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:54 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 cowl tank addition? From: "kmccune" High all, I have not started to build yet as I'm still trying to decide if I should kit build or scratch build... But I have a question for future reference. The older 701s had a cowl tank only? Could a smaller tank be put in the cowl to be used as a header tank and add an hour of so to the fight time, or at least a reserve? Does Zenith support scratch builders? They seem to have a help area but you need a serial number to access it. Sorry for all the questions... I'm a little eager :^) -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135746#135746 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:51 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power Robert, I didn't say it couldn't be done because someone's already fitted a 701 with a Jab 3300. It just seems counter productive to put a "merlin" or its cousin on an aircraft that is so much slower than the cooling needs of the engine. Subaru engines have been successful only because they have a radiator that governs heat exchange. It will certainly fly, but I believe it's a mismatch for long term use. respectfully, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Robert Loer wrote: > > IT WAS WRITTEN: >> 4. Corvair is too small for an 801 and too large for practical use >> in a 701. You need cooling speed to keep the Corvair healthy which >> the 701 doesn't. > > > Lets not count out the Corvair yet in the 701. William Wynne in > Florida and his crew that have been very successful with the 601 have > a 701 under construction with a Corvair mounted. In a few months we > will have real world experience. > > Robert Loer > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:40 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 cowl tank addition? When you buy your plans you will have a serial # and access to builders Support and the builders area on the website. We provide builders support, but do not provide details on scratch building, that is part of your learning. Going through the plans and making your own decisions on material. This is part of plans building. Learning the process of metalworking and what you can or cannot do. The EAA and RAA are great tools for learning this information. Also take a trip over to www.homebuilthelp.com and pick up the scratch builders DVD, also download AC43 this is the law to building a plane. Buying a kit gives you the great adventure to have your flying plane, plans building is for those who consider the building portion as important and the flying aspect, sometimes even more important, it is because you are going to learn the properties of the metal, the bending and forming. You will make tools to perform this work. Sometimes you will spend as much time woodworking as you will be bending a piece of metal. IT is a great adventure. As for the fuel system in a 701, they used to come with a optional smaller header tank and two wing tanks. I am not sure if Zenith willl still make the older header tank, but you should be able to find one out their. In fact I have just removed one out of mine along with the control panel. I will be replacing the 5 gal wing tanks with the 10 gal ones and not installing a header tank. I have a major aversion to fuel in my lap. I may sell the wing/header tanks and panel ( which has all the hook ups for the header tank) These units have never been used, they were installed 14 years ago but the plane sat unfinished in a barn for 13 years. They are chromated and clean. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kmccune Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 9:43 AM Subject: Zenith-List: 701 cowl tank addition? High all, I have not started to build yet as I'm still trying to decide if I should kit build or scratch build... But I have a question for future reference. The older 701s had a cowl tank only? Could a smaller tank be put in the cowl to be used as a header tank and add an hour of so to the fight time, or at least a reserve? Does Zenith support scratch builders? They seem to have a help area but you need a serial number to access it. Sorry for all the questions... I'm a little eager :^) -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135746#135746 9/21/2007 2:02 PM 9/21/2007 2:02 PM ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:31 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 cowl tank addition? Hi Kevin, Zenith supports a scratch builder so long as you buy the plans so they can provide you a serial number for your aircraft. Build a rudder from plans and work from there. If you feel things going too slowly, buy the kit that keeps it going. To save real money, use the plans to scratch build the parts that you mess up. I wouldn't put a fuel tank in the cowl because it would have to share space with an engine and its exhaust system. Zenith has always been willing to sell singular kit or parts as needed to the scratch or plans builder. Excellent support! Larry McFarland 601HDS plans built at www.macsmachine.com kmccune wrote: > > High all, > > I have not started to build yet as I'm still trying to decide if I should kit build or scratch build... But I have a question for future reference. The older 701s had a cowl tank only? Could a smaller tank be put in the cowl to be used as a header tank and add an hour of so to the fight time, or at least a reserve? > > Does Zenith support scratch builders? They seem to have a help area but you need a serial number to access it. > > Sorry for all the questions... I'm a little eager :^) > > -------- > Kevin > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:10 AM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engine Comparison Paul All 3 engines used different props. On the VW, I used a Power Fin. The Corvair, I used a Warp Drive. And on the Jabiru, I have a Sensenich. All are ground adjustable. It's hard to compare the pitch because the blades are completly different on all three. I know this factors into the performance, but I can't tell you how much. After the crank broke last year on the Corvair, I found a deal on a never run, second hand Jabiru. My wife helped convince me that I needed it over the Corvair. Of course, she was in the plane with me when the crank broke. Phase 1 testing is required anytime you make a major change to the aircraft. You are required to fill out a Application For Airworthiness and send it to your FSDO. I also wrote a letter explaining what I was doing and my plan to go into phase 1 testing for a minimum of 5 hours. FWIW, I have nearly 180 hours on the plane now. About 12 hours on the new Jabiru. Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/n282rs n282rs at satx.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Comparison Hi Randy, Thank you for the great engine comparison. I wonder if you could answer a couple of questions about the Corvair and Jabiru differences. First, did you use the same propeller for both engines? If you have an adjustable propeller did you use the same settings? The other question I have is why you changed from the Corvair to the Jabiru. If I understood the point about phase 1 testing, it seems you went through all three engines before completing phase 1. Is this true? Or, did you need to go back into phase 1 testing when you changed engines? Thanks, Paul XL fuselage do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:13 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power From: "leinad" Larry, Just wanted to point out that Corvairs have been on Pientpols ( a slow plane) since the early 60s. Dan > Robert, > I didn't say it couldn't be done because someone's already fitted a 701 > with a Jab 3300. It just seems counter productive to put a "merlin" or > its cousin > on an aircraft that is so much slower than the cooling needs of the > engine. Subaru engines have been successful only because they have a > radiator that > governs heat exchange. It will certainly fly, but I believe it's a > mismatch for long term use. > > respectfully, > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > do not archive > -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135758#135758 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:06 AM PST US From: WHC228@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power Corvairs on Pietenpols often had the original cooling system too. Billl C 601xl Lyc ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:44 AM PST US From: WHC228@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Comparison I would like to see some comments on using an O235 Lycoming. I recently bought an engine, and am wondering why no one seems to be talking about these engines. They seem to be reasonable to buy, have a good TBO, and plenty of power. The only thing that is negative is the weight. Bill 601XL 0235 wings & tail done ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:18 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power > > That's true Dan, but the Pietenpol is a much cleaner aircraft having a top speed of 100 mph. The 701 is draggy with an 85 mph top end and if pulled to exceed that by a Corvair, I'd worry about the structural of an 701 being pulled beyond its 110 mph VNE. Larry McFarland do not archive > > Larry, > Just wanted to point out that Corvairs have been on Pientpols ( a slow plane) since the early 60s. > Dan > > > >> Robert, >> I didn't say it couldn't be done because someone's already fitted a 701 >> with a Jab 3300. It just seems counter productive to put a "merlin" or >> its cousin >> on an aircraft that is so much slower than the cooling needs of the >> engine. Subaru engines have been successful only because they have a >> radiator that >> governs heat exchange. It will certainly fly, but I believe it's a >> mismatch for long term use. >> >> respectfully, >> >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >> do not archive >> ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:44 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics no steamers on mine, just the dynons, with Back up batteries. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: george may >Sent: Sep 21, 2007 6:34 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > > >Bill-- > I'm flying the 601xl with the D100 as my main flight instruments and the D180 mounted on the passenger side for my engine instrumentation and EFIS backup. No problem seeing any of the instrument reading of the D180 from the pilot seat, either with or without split screen. > >George May >601XL 912s 150hrs > > >To: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: ElectronicsDate: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:21:21 -0400From: japhillipsga@aol.comGeoff, I am interested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm building. My concerns are is it really big enough to see. I measured and the eyeball to panel distance is almost four feet. I don't want to be squinting trying to see some little light bar so far away they all run together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won't keep up with a plane doing anything other than "airliner type" flying. That it is too slow and is always trying to catch up ? I just have not had the opportunity to talk to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon a bunch of money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam gages and such as back up? Thanks and best regards, Billdo not archive-----Original Message-----From: Geoff Heap To: zenith-list@matronics.comSent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pmSubject: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > >Your own words Don >"Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But the >jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? " > >If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. Bells and >whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined EFIS/enigine >monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, pitot >tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying to sell >Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the >Inigma.....Geoff > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539 > > >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > > >_________________________________________________________________ >More photos; more messages; more whatever Get MORE with Windows Live Hotmail. NOW with 5GB storage. >ration_HM_mini_5G_0907 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:23 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Comparison Hi Bill, I don't have experience with the Lycoming engine, but I have been comparing results from different engine choices for a long while now. The weight is indeed the biggest issue with both the Lycoming and Continental engines. This might not be such an issue if you have a lot of excess capacity in your plane. However, if you are trying to meet the LSA requirements, as I am, then the extra 100 pounds or so really limits the size of people and the amount of baggage you can haul. I have never heard exactly how much excess weight penalty there is on the older engines. While some weights are published, I thing there are large differences in the included equipment from one specification to another. It is the total installed weight with all accessories that matters. I think the 170 pound per person allowance for both baggage and human weight on the new Cessna 162 is heavily influenced by the engine choice. I guess the bottom line is that you should consider what size people will be in your plane and how much baggage and fuel you want to carry before installing one of the older and heavier engines. Paul XL fuselage At 08:45 AM 9/22/2007, you wrote: >I would like to see some comments on using an O235 Lycoming. >I recently bought an engine, and am wondering why no one seems to be >talking about these engines. >They seem to be reasonable to buy, have a good TBO, and plenty of power. >The only thing that is negative is the weight. > >Bill >601XL >0235 >wings & tail done ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First flight, test pilot, dual time From: "kmccune" So after Jan 2008 it has to be registered as a S-LSA then converted... how does this affect my ability to perform maintenance on it? Assuming I have taken the 16 hr class? -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135769#135769 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:35 AM PST US From: "Ken Arnold" Subject: Zenith-List: Navion N8844H Look at www.wraltv.com. Navion from Chantilly, VA crashed with one fatality. do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 and E-LSA and S-LSA and maintenance From: "kmccune" So after Jan 2008 I can no longer register a 701 as an E-LSA? But I can convert it? Additionally do I then have to take additional instruction to do the anual inspection and annual maintenance even if its an E-LSA? Its all so confusing :? -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135775#135775 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:32 AM PST US From: "Robert Loer" Subject: RE: Re: Zenith-List: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power No body implied you said it couldn't be done. Relax a little. For the benifit of all reading, I just offered the information that it is being done by someone in the public eye who will publish the results on his website. Then...no more guessing. Robert >------- Original Message ------- >From : LarryMcFarland[mailto:larry@macsmachine.com] >Sent : 9/22/2007 7:21:57 AM >To : zenith-list@matronics.com >Cc : >Subject : RE: Re: Zenith-List: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power > Robert, I didn't say it couldn't be done because someone's already fitted a 701 with a Jab 3300. It just seems counter productive to put a "merlin" or its cousin on an aircraft that is so much slower than the cooling needs of the engine. Subaru engines have been successful only because they have a radiator that governs heat exchange. It will certainly fly, but I believe it's a mismatch for long term use. respectfully, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Robert Loer wrote: > > IT WAS WRITTEN: >> 4. Corvair is too small for an 801 and too large for practical use >> in a 701. You need cooling speed to keep the Corvair healthy which >> the 701 doesn't. > > > Lets not count out the Corvair yet in the 701. William Wynne in > Florida and his crew that have been very successful with the 601 have > a 701 under construction with a Corvair mounted. In a few months we > will have real world experience. > > Robert Loer > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:28:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: New 95hp engine design. From: "kmccune" I just received an email from UL power with a brochure and price list. The engine has 95 hp at 3300rpm, but better yet has about 145 to 150ft-lbs of torque between 2500 and 3300 rpm. Your don't have to rev it all the way up ya know. It is direct drive and fuel injected. The price at present is $16,800 US. -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135797#135797 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ul260_folder_v7_usa1_1_784.doc ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:36 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 cowl tank addition? you can also download the AC65-9, -12, and -15. These are the handbooks for the A&P mechanic.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvai r=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: ZodieRocket =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, September 22, 200 7 10:25:21 AM=0ASubject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 cowl tank addition?=0A=0A=0A- When you buy your plans you will have a serial # and access to builders=0AS upport and the builders area on the website. We provide builders=0Asupport, but do not provide details on scratch building, that is part of=0Ayour lea rning. Going through the plans and making your own decisions on=0Amaterial. This is part of plans building. Learning the process of=0Ametalworking and what you can or cannot do. The EAA and RAA are great=0Atools for learning this information. Also take a trip over to=0Awww.homebuilthelp.com and pick up the scratch builders DVD, also=0Adownload AC43 this is the law to build ing a plane. Buying a kit gives=0Ayou the great adventure to have your flyi ng plane, plans building is for=0Athose who consider the building portion a s important and the flying=0Aaspect, sometimes even more important, it is b ecause you are going to=0Alearn the properties of the metal, the bending an d forming. You will=0Amake tools to perform this work. Sometimes you will s pend as much time=0Awoodworking as you will be bending a piece of metal. IT is a great=0Aadventure.=0A=0AAs for the fuel system in a 701, they used to come with a optional=0Asmaller header tank and two wing tanks. I am not su re if Zenith willl=0Astill make the older header tank, but you should be ab le to find one out=0Atheir. In fact I have just removed one out of mine alo ng with the=0Acontrol panel. I will be replacing the 5 gal wing tanks with the 10 gal=0Aones and not installing a header tank. I have a major aversion to fuel=0Ain my lap.=0AI may sell the wing/header tanks and panel ( which has all the hook ups=0Afor the header tank) These units have never been use d, they were=0Ainstalled 14 years ago but the plane sat unfinished in a bar n for 13=0Ayears. They are chromated and clean.=0A=0A=0AMark Townsend=0ACan -Zac Aviation Ltd.=0Apresident@can-zacaviation.com=0Awww.can-zacaviation.co m =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-zenith-list-server@matroni cs.com=0A[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kmccu ne=0ASent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 9:43 AM=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics .com=0ASubject: Zenith-List: 701 cowl tank addition?=0A=0A--> Zenith-List m essage posted by: "kmccune" =0A=0AHigh all,=0A=0AI have not started to build yet as I'm still trying to decide if I=0Ashould kit b uild or scratch build... But I have a question for future=0Areference. The older 701s had a cowl tank only? Could a smaller tank be=0Aput in the cowl to be used as a header tank and add an hour of so to the=0Afight time, or a t least a reserve?=0A=0ADoes Zenith support scratch builders? They seem to have a help area but=0Ayou need a serial number to access it.=0A=0ASorry fo r all the questions... I'm a little eager :^)=0A=0A--------=0AKevin=0A=0A =0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view topic.php?p=135746#135746=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A9/21/2007 2:02 PM =========================0A =============0A=0A=0A =0A____________________ ________________________________________________________________=0AGot a li arch.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs= bz ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:51 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 cowl tank addition? Hi Kevin: I am building a CH701, I chose to go the kit route as I did not want to take an extended time to get flying. When you buy the plans from the Zenith factory you will get a serial number. I have found the factory to be extremely helpful. The best way, I have found, to get fast replies is to phone the factory. You will have to persevere when you want to talk to them as they do not use an answering machine. Sometimes they will ask you to email them after a phone conversation. John Read Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:50 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 and E-LSA and S-LSA and maintenance After Jan 2008 you can't register your CH701 as an E-LSA or an S-LSA, you will have to register as an Experimental-Amateur built. However, it will still meet the limitations of the LSA rule and a sport pilot can fly it. Any airplane, no matter what type of airworthiness certificate it has, Standard, Primary, E-LSA, S-LSA or E-AB, can be flown under the sport pilot rule as long as it meets the limitations of the LSA rules and has continued to do so since its initial registration. If you register it as an E-AB you can do any and all maintenance on the plane. If you sell the airplane, the new owner will also be able to do his own maintenance. Anyone can do maintenance on an E-AB. If you are the primary builder and apply for and receive the repairman certificate for that airplane, you can sign off the annual condition inspection. If you sell it, the new owner will not be able to sign off the annual unless he is an A&P, only the original builder can get the repairman certificate for an E-AB and it can't be transferred. You will not be able to rent out an E-AB to give flight instruction but you, the owner, can receive flight instruction in it after the phase I testing is complete. If you register it as an E-LSA before the Jan 31, 2008 deadline, you will be able to do all of your maintenance but you will have to take a 16 hour maintenance course to qualify to sign off the annual inspection on that plane. The 16 hour course also qualifies you to sign off the annual on any other S-LSA or E-LSA aircraft that you own. The 16 hour course does not qualify you to sign off the annual on any aircraft with a Standard, Primary or E-AB airworthiness certificate even if the plane can be flown under the Sport Pilot rules. On Sep 22, 2007, at 2:05 PM, kmccune wrote: > > So after Jan 2008 I can no longer register a 701 as an E-LSA? > But I can convert it? > > Additionally do I then have to take additional instruction to do > the anual inspection and annual maintenance even if its an E-LSA? > > Its all so confusing :? > > -------- > Kevin > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:53 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 and E-LSA and S-LSA and maintenance From: "kmccune" Thanks, I was HOPING for an answer like this! The sport pilot part was never a question, but the experimental part along with the who can do what part to the airplane, was a little, OK way foggy! Thanks -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135811#135811 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:08 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power You should try a Ram built Subaru .100,130,140,or the Ram 250 Superchareged that ,ought to rip that 701's wings off with the 130 all of his engines are dynoed, so we are talking true HP. Not to mention he's been at it for 25 years, that always help's a little too.. For what it's worth I would listen to Larry Mac. He know's his Z " Plane's, engineering,and design. I think a100 HP engine with a Prince P-Tip would work fine then your 701 would jump off the ground and cruise well too. Have a nice day . Joe N101HD 601XL ----- Original Message ----- From: "leinad" Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:20 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power > > Larry, > Just wanted to point out that Corvairs have been on Pientpols ( a slow > plane) since the early 60s. > Dan > > >> Robert, >> I didn't say it couldn't be done because someone's already fitted a 701 >> with a Jab 3300. It just seems counter productive to put a "merlin" or >> its cousin >> on an aircraft that is so much slower than the cooling needs of the >> engine. Subaru engines have been successful only because they have a >> radiator that >> governs heat exchange. It will certainly fly, but I believe it's a >> mismatch for long term use. >> >> respectfully, >> >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >> do not archive >> > > > -------- > Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135758#135758 > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:05 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics Hi Juan, a little off the subject,are you the person built ? that super custom 601 XL ? Thank's Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 12:06 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > > no steamers on mine, just the dynons, with Back up batteries. > > Juan > > -----Original Message----- >>From: george may >>Sent: Sep 21, 2007 6:34 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >> >> >>Bill-- >> I'm flying the 601xl with the D100 as my main flight instruments and the >> D180 mounted on the passenger side for my engine instrumentation and EFIS >> backup. No problem seeing any of the instrument reading of the D180 from >> the pilot seat, either with or without split screen. >> >>George May >>601XL 912s 150hrs >> >> >>To: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: >>ElectronicsDate: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:21:21 -0400From: >>japhillipsga@aol.comGeoff, I am interested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm >>building. My concerns are is it really big enough to see. I measured and >>the eyeball to panel distance is almost four feet. I don't want to be >>squinting trying to see some little light bar so far away they all run >>together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won't keep up with a plane >>doing anything other than "airliner type" flying. That it is too slow and >>is always trying to catch up ? I just have not had the opportunity to talk >>to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon a bunch of >>money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam gages and >>such as back up? Thanks and best regards, Billdo not archive-----Original >>Message-----From: Geoff Heap To: >>zenith-list@matronics.comSent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pmSubject: >>Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >> >>Your own words Don >>"Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But >>the >>jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? " >> >>If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. >>Bells and >>whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined >>EFIS/enigine >>monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, >>pitot >>tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying to >>sell >>Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the >>Inigma.....Geoff >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! >> >> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>More photos; more messages; more whatever Get MORE with Windows Live >>Hotmail. NOW with 5GB storage. >>ration_HM_mini_5G_0907 > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:27 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power From: "jetboy" The modified 701 on the ZAC website has already been trialed and the Corvair is being removed for sale to being replaced a smaller engine. Sorry I dont know whether it was a compliance issue or flying issue. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135823#135823 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:45 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics if you are refering to the panel that was put on the zenith website, that is me. -----Original Message----- >From: Southern Reflections >Sent: Sep 22, 2007 7:56 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > > >Hi Juan, a little off the subject,are you the person built ? that super >custom 601 XL ? Thank's Joe N101HD >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Juan Vega" >To: >Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 12:06 PM >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > > >> >> no steamers on mine, just the dynons, with Back up batteries. >> >> Juan >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: george may >>>Sent: Sep 21, 2007 6:34 PM >>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >>> >>> >>>Bill-- >>> I'm flying the 601xl with the D100 as my main flight instruments and the >>> D180 mounted on the passenger side for my engine instrumentation and EFIS >>> backup. No problem seeing any of the instrument reading of the D180 from >>> the pilot seat, either with or without split screen. >>> >>>George May >>>601XL 912s 150hrs >>> >>> >>>To: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: >>>ElectronicsDate: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:21:21 -0400From: >>>japhillipsga@aol.comGeoff, I am interested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm >>>building. My concerns are is it really big enough to see. I measured and >>>the eyeball to panel distance is almost four feet. I don't want to be >>>squinting trying to see some little light bar so far away they all run >>>together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won't keep up with a plane >>>doing anything other than "airliner type" flying. That it is too slow and >>>is always trying to catch up ? I just have not had the opportunity to talk >>>to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon a bunch of >>>money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam gages and >>>such as back up? Thanks and best regards, Billdo not archive-----Original >>>Message-----From: Geoff Heap To: >>>zenith-list@matronics.comSent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pmSubject: >>>Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >>> >>>Your own words Don >>>"Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But >>>the >>>jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? " >>> >>>If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. >>>Bells and >>>whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined >>>EFIS/enigine >>>monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, >>>pitot >>>tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying to >>>sell >>>Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the >>>Inigma.....Geoff >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Read this topic online here: >>> >>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! >>> >>> >>> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>More photos; more messages; more whatever Get MORE with Windows Live >>>Hotmail. NOW with 5GB storage. >>>ration_HM_mini_5G_0907 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:40 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics The one that I'am talking abouthad a custom canopy,up turned wing tips,and a small window behind the seat. Thanks Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:44 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > > if you are refering to the panel that was put on the zenith website, that > is me. > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Southern Reflections >>Sent: Sep 22, 2007 7:56 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >> >> >> >>Hi Juan, a little off the subject,are you the person built ? that super >>custom 601 XL ? Thank's Joe N101HD >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Juan Vega" >>To: >>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 12:06 PM >>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >> >> >>> >>> no steamers on mine, just the dynons, with Back up batteries. >>> >>> Juan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>From: george may >>>>Sent: Sep 21, 2007 6:34 PM >>>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >>>> >>>> >>>>Bill-- >>>> I'm flying the 601xl with the D100 as my main flight instruments and >>>> the >>>> D180 mounted on the passenger side for my engine instrumentation and >>>> EFIS >>>> backup. No problem seeing any of the instrument reading of the D180 >>>> from >>>> the pilot seat, either with or without split screen. >>>> >>>>George May >>>>601XL 912s 150hrs >>>> >>>> >>>>To: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: >>>>ElectronicsDate: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:21:21 -0400From: >>>>japhillipsga@aol.comGeoff, I am interested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm >>>>building. My concerns are is it really big enough to see. I measured and >>>>the eyeball to panel distance is almost four feet. I don't want to be >>>>squinting trying to see some little light bar so far away they all run >>>>together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won't keep up with a plane >>>>doing anything other than "airliner type" flying. That it is too slow >>>>and >>>>is always trying to catch up ? I just have not had the opportunity to >>>>talk >>>>to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon a bunch of >>>>money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam gages >>>>and >>>>such as back up? Thanks and best regards, Billdo not >>>>archive-----Original >>>>Message-----From: Geoff Heap To: >>>>zenith-list@matronics.comSent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pmSubject: >>>>Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >>>> >>>>Your own words Don >>>>"Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, >>>>But >>>>the >>>>jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? " >>>> >>>>If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. >>>>Bells and >>>>whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined >>>>EFIS/enigine >>>>monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, >>>>pitot >>>>tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying >>>>to >>>>sell >>>>Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the >>>>Inigma.....Geoff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>>More photos; more messages; more whatever Get MORE with Windows Live >>>>Hotmail. NOW with 5GB storage. >>>>ration_HM_mini_5G_0907 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:56 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > The one that I'am talking abouthad a custom canopy,up turned wing tips,and a small window behind the seat. I think you are referring to Roberto Brito's plane in Brazil: http://www.airfox.com.br -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.