---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/25/07: 47 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:50 AM - Balistic Recovery Parachute (martyn@flight.co.za) 2. 06:36 AM - Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute (ZodieRocket) 3. 06:48 AM - Re: Battery cable size (LarryMcFarland) 4. 07:00 AM - Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute (Gig Giacona) 5. 07:15 AM - Re: New to me. (LRM) 6. 07:16 AM - Re: stol ch701 wing profile (John Bolding) 7. 07:34 AM - Re: Problems with top pre-drilled fuselage skin ( CH-701 ) (ashontz) 8. 07:45 AM - Four Stroke Outboard Engines (ashontz) 9. 08:37 AM - trim tab (vann covington) 10. 08:39 AM - Re: Four Stroke Outboard Engines (ProWash) 11. 08:40 AM - Re: Battery cable size (David Downey) 12. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: Electronics (japhillipsga@aol.com) 13. 09:09 AM - Re: Re: Electronics (japhillipsga@aol.com) 14. 09:11 AM - Re: trim tab (LarryMcFarland) 15. 09:17 AM - Re: Battery cable size (LarryMcFarland) 16. 09:20 AM - Re: New to me. (Southern Reflections) 17. 09:45 AM - Re: Re: Electronics (Juan Vega) 18. 09:51 AM - Re: trim tab (Gary Ray) 19. 10:22 AM - first batch of photos (Edward Moody II) 20. 10:22 AM - next batch of photos (Edward Moody II) 21. 10:23 AM - Third and final (Edward Moody II) 22. 10:46 AM - Re: Third and final (Edward Moody II) 23. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute (Robert Loer) 24. 11:10 AM - Re: Third and final (wade jones) 25. 11:42 AM - Re: Third and final (Trainnut01@aol.com) 26. 11:54 AM - Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute (PatrickW) 27. 12:07 PM - Home Built Help (SkipperClyde) 28. 12:12 PM - 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? (PatrickW) 29. 01:04 PM - Re: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? (DaveG601XL) 30. 01:09 PM - Re: Third and final (DaveG601XL) 31. 01:12 PM - Re: Third and final (Craig Payne) 32. 04:25 PM - Re: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? (SkipperClyde) 33. 05:34 PM - Re: New to me. (LRM) 34. 05:42 PM - avex rivet question (Dick) 35. 05:56 PM - Re: Four Stroke Outboard Engines (Terry Turnquist) 36. 05:59 PM - Re: trim tab (Ron Lendon) 37. 06:05 PM - Re: New to me. (PatrickW) 38. 06:37 PM - VNE (Southern Reflections) 39. 06:39 PM - Re: Third and final (ZodieRocket) 40. 06:40 PM - Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute (Art Olechowski) 41. 07:18 PM - Re: VNE (ZodieRocket) 42. 07:29 PM - Re: VNE (Bryan Martin) 43. 07:55 PM - Re: VNE (Southern Reflections) 44. 07:59 PM - Re: VNE (Southern Reflections) 45. 08:53 PM - Re: Home Built Help (Stanley Challgren) 46. 08:55 PM - [ Jeffrey L. Davidson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 47. 09:11 PM - Re: Home Built Help (SkipperClyde) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:25 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Balistic Recovery Parachute From: martyn@flight.co.za Hello, Has anybody here installed a Balistic recovery Parachute system to thier 701. If so what make and where did you attach the device. Sincerely Martyn Ward CH701 - ZU-DPL ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:54 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Balistic Recovery Parachute BRS Installation Blueprints, this is the installation manual for the BRS system in the 701. However, I would like to go on record that I have a grave issue ( yes I chose my words correctly) with installing a BRS into the 701. However, it is my personal opinion. Please research it closer and make your own mind up. Check out the conditions in which you can actually deploy it, think about a ROCKET mounted behind your head. I personally believe they are a bigger danger to a pilot then flying the plane (especially a 701 at 30mph) to a landing spot of about 100 feet to save the plane, 10 feet to save yourself and most of your plane. Please call me crazy if you wish, that's fine by me as I said this is just my opinion but research the installation and usefulness of the BRS system. Don't just take the hype at face value, research the planes design and check the FAA record for Fatalities ( 701 has none with over 1000 flying) http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/data/701-brs-chute.pdf I'm not against the BRS product, don't misunderstand that point, I believe there are many planes that would benefit from the installation ( most Cessna's for example, in fact any plane that requires over 1000ft of runway. But in a 701 I believe it is a bigger danger to have one installed then not to. The 701 is one of the safest planes I have ever flown, just in a time of quiet reflection when that big fan may stop turning, (or you clip a tree on final! You know who you are) then do what was drilled into your head all those years ago FLY THE PLANE !!! Don't give up and pull a rocket, in most instances you will be able to fix any hard landing in a 701, Ask Jon Croke on that matter. If you pull a chute on a 701 you're buying a new kit, the attachment points are not designed for the loads that will be introduced. For those of you who may not know Jon, please read his story at http://www.ch701.com/stories/stories.htm He is humble enough to share his experience so that others may not fall into the same trap. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of martyn@flight.co.za Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:46 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Balistic Recovery Parachute Hello, Has anybody here installed a Balistic recovery Parachute system to thier 701. If so what make and where did you attach the device. Sincerely Martyn Ward CH701 - ZU-DPL 9/25/2007 8:02 AM 9/25/2007 8:02 AM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:01 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable size Randy, The vibration is not going to affect any soldered cable connection of a size 6 or larger, but I agree that small wires should be crimped properly. When soldering is recommended or felt necessary, extra steps should be taken to isolate the wire from vibration. I have several cable connections that are silver soldered and only a few connections where pins are involved in multi-wire plugs that needed to be soldered. These are encased in shrink wrap and tied down to keep vibration to a minimum. All I know "electrical" is found in the complete manual sold by The AeroElectric Connection. Information Service and Guide Theory, Operation, Design and Fabrication of Aircraft Electrical Systems. by Bob Knuckolls. His book advocates using battery cables with soldered connections and describes how best to do it. I have had to repair one 22 gage wire, non Tefzel, (from an instrument) that broke from flexing as a 6-inch free loop where no solder was involved at 50 hours total time. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Randy L. Thwing wrote: > > > Hello Larry: > > I have been warned by people supposedly in the know against soldering > aircraft connections. Something about that if you solder a > multi-strand wire, the solder binds together the mutiple strands and > causes it to act like a large, single strand wire, when subject to > vibration, you loose the benefit of muti-strand wire flexing and if it > breaks it breaks all at once. > > Any opinion regarding this? > > Regards, > > Randy, Las Vegas do not archive > > >> Welding cable is flexible and durable to a fault and the wire is fine >> enough that connectors can >> be soldered with excellent results. > >> >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:13 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute From: "Gig Giacona" Since we are talking about chutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1PX7G0u0yI -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136321#136321 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:54 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me. Not that many with the engine really. Most of them were my fault. In as far as the engine goes, the only real issue with the engine is the large power pulses. I had to go thru three props before I got one that was acceptable. The Warp Drive had a blade that tracked out over 1/4", I just could not get it to smooth out. I sold it on e-bay and lost my @#$#. The IVO prop was worse, one of it's blades wouldn't even fit on the prop hub without forcing it. They refunded my money. The Culver is best, but too long and too much pitch. All I could get was 3k static. It's now being re-done. I can't say enough good things about Larry Smith at Culver. The engine runs great, I have 21 hours on it. After all the engine is a Harley, and will never run as smooth as a car engine, what it is, is what it is. I had the engine mounted too hard to the firewall. I had eight mounts, so I felt every little shake rattle and roll, it is now back to the normal six. I had two supertrapp mufflers hung ridged off the engine, 4.5 lbs each, a foot back. They magnified the vibrations. They sounded good but are history, I now have straight pipes down. The biggest other problem I had were with the plastic gas tanks and lines from PegaStol. They used food service fittings and lines that wouldn't hold up to gasoline. I ended up building my own glass tanks and changed out all the lines to regular auto type fuel injections lines. I had to take the wings apart twice, lots of time. And, lots of little crap, like the EFIS didn't work, had to go back to the factory, I broke a knob off the radio, etc. Then I had a spinner that I didn't fasten properly and it came off at about 3000 rpm, and tore up the front of my cowl. So I had to rebuild the cowling. For a while I think I was snake bit. So I let it sit for a few months and did other things. Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Southern Reflections To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me. LARRY, WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS DID YOU HAVE WITH THE HOG - AIR ENG? How many hr. did you have on it? ----- Original Message ----- Joe N101HD 601XL From: LRM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:37 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me. Nope, this is for my new 701, totally different plane. Lengthened the wings and going with VGs on this one. The Hawg is still up and running, just waiting on a prop adjustment from Culver. I couldn't get the static rpm I needed. Hopefully real soon. The Hawg is working out, just takes a lot of patience. Building and designing is where the fun is anyway, Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: ZodieRocket To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New to me. Larry, this is going to be your 3rd engine installation, I am sorry to hear that the Hog didn=92t work out for you. If it has any weight, I have flown behind VW 701=92s and I would recommend a Gro conversion with a Raven redrive. I have found this to be a far better performer. However this is only my opinion and you do enjoy a challenge. Check out Rick Roberts website for installation in a 701 and look into www.nessaaircraft.net for great proven information on upping the performance of the geo to make your 701 a true performer. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: New to me. I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great Plains Type 1 engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I never heard of before. It said that if you wanted to paint your engine cylinders to mix enamel and gasoline 50/50. Has anyone out there done that, and if so, what were the results and did it hold up? Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L - The Zenith-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com 9/24/2007 11:27 AM 9/24/2007 11:27 AM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Release Date: 9/24/2007 11:27 AM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/24/2007 11:27 AM ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:49 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: stol ch701 wing profile The airfoil is the 65018 18% thick. I assume you are asking about the airfoil in total, slat and all. It isn't exactly a 65018 either as Chris made construction a little easier for us by eliminating the slight undercamber on the lower surface and he flattened the top a little in the spar area so we could use angle extrusions for spar caps. LOW&SLO John Bolding ----- Original Message ----- From: ashralf To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 11:16 PM Subject: Zenith-List: stol ch701 wing profile i would like to ask for stol ch701 wing profile ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:50 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Problems with top pre-drilled fuselage skin ( CH-701 ) From: "ashontz" For stuff like this it's worth building the Zenith 48 inch bending brake. txpilot wrote: > John, > > I had similar problems when I built my rear fuselage. Here's what I suggest as a solution: > > Talk to Roger at ZAC and order new 'L' brackets with one flange at 20mm (normal) and the other flange at 30mm. Use these extended flange 'L' brackets on the side skins. Remove your current side 'L' brackets, clamp the small flange to the top and bottom 'L' bracket flanges, and drill through your existing side skin holes into the new "long" flange. Yes, it will be slightly off vertical if your bottom and top 'L' brackets are not plumb, but it seems from your picture that it won't be too far off. It will guarantee the 'L' bracket flanges will be flush with each other with no gap. > > BTW - on your website, you mentioned placing diagonal 'L' brackets on your skin to reduce oil canning noise. I did the same on mine. I'm not flying yet, so I don't know if it really helps. However, you'll notice ZAC has these 'L' brackets on their aircraft model. Guess it can't be a bad idea. > > Best Regards, > > Dan Ginty -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136328#136328 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Four Stroke Outboard Engines From: "ashontz" I already have my Corvair engine, but was curious if any one looked into four stroke outboard power heads as an engine option? A Honda 90hp total weight is 379lbs, but I'd have to imagine only 1/3 of that is the actual engine block, and they're rated for 5500 rpm continuous use. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136332#136332 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:51 AM PST US From: vann covington Subject: Zenith-List: trim tab I have a question about the electric trim tab in the elevator. I purchased a partially built kit and the previous builder did not use the trim kit. Any suggestions for a retrofit? Thanks, Vann, NC --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Four Stroke Outboard Engines From: "ProWash" I have just begun looking into non traditional engine alternatives. Most outboard motors have an open loop cooling system, with the water pump located in the lower unit. This leaves a challenge to contain and pump the coolant in our application. Some of the newer personal water craft have a closed loop cooling system with small, light weight, four stroke engines that put out 80 to 215 HP. Sea Doo uses 3 cylinder, super charged, fuel injected Rotax called 4-Tec. Honda also has a nice unit with potential for flight. Newer snowmobiles also have similar four stroke possibilities. Most of these engines are high revving, requiring a redrive unit that adds weight and may not be readily available. So this leads me to dream about the newer motorcycle engines. The Suzuki Hayabusa 1300 cc puts out about 140 hp in stock form. It gives you a choice of 6 gear reductions built into the transmission. I'm guessing all installed weight to be around 165 lbs. These engines are available on E-bay for under $3000 every day. I know these engines are bullet proof. Can you imagine a first gear STOL takeoff and then shift into high gear at cruise altitude? With an inflight adjustable prop, this might be the ticket. -------- R Craig North Central Arkansas 701 SP Just started. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136344#136344 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:03 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable size I respectfully disagree. Soldered connections lead to cable fatigue in ALL cases - you may just not get there!=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) P A=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: LarryMcFa rland =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesd ay, September 25, 2007 9:46:12 AM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable machine.com>=0A=0ARandy,=0AThe vibration is not going to affect any soldere d cable connection of a =0Asize 6 or larger, but I agree that small wires s hould be crimped =0Aproperly. When soldering=0Ais recommended or felt neces sary, extra steps should be taken to isolate =0Athe wire from vibration. I have several cable connections that are =0Asilver soldered=0Aand only a fe w connections where pins are involved in multi-wire plugs =0Athat needed to be soldered. These are encased in shrink wrap and tied =0Adown to keep=0A vibration to a minimum. All I know "electrical" is found in the =0Acomplet e manual sold by The AeroElectric Connection. Information Service =0Aand Gu ide Theory,=0AOperation, Design and Fabrication of Aircraft Electrical Syst ems. by Bob =0AKnuckolls. His book advocates using battery cables with sol dered =0Aconnections and=0Adescribes how best to do it. I have had to repa ir one 22 gage wire, non =0ATefzel, (from an instrument) that broke from fl exing as a 6-inch free =0Aloop where no solder was=0Ainvolved at 50 hours t otal time.=0A=0ALarry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com=0A=0ARandy L =0A> =0A>=0A> Hello Larry:=0A>=0A> I have been warne d by people supposedly in the know against soldering =0A> aircraft connecti ons. Something about that if you solder a =0A> multi-strand wire, the sold er binds together the mutiple strands and =0A> causes it to act like a larg e, single strand wire, when subject to =0A> vibration, you loose the benefi t of muti-strand wire flexing and if it =0A> breaks it breaks all at once. =0A>=0A> Any opinion regarding this?=0A>=0A> Regards,=0A>=0A> Randy, Las Ve gas do not archive=0A>=0A>=0A>> Welding cable is flexible and durable to a fault and the wire is fine =0A>> enough that connectors can=0A>> be soldere d with excellent results.=0A>=0A>>=0A>> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macs =========================0A =============0A=0A=0A =0A____________________ ________________________________________________________________=0ATake the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, pho tos & more. =0Ahttp://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics From: japhillipsga@aol.com George, thanks for the info. I would appreciate the opportunity to see your set up. Where are you located? I could use a good trip in my XL. Been doing more building than flying and that just ani't right. Best regards, Bill 601XL-Jab 3300 -120 hrs do not archive -----Original Message----- From: george may Sent: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 6:34 pm Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics Bill-- =C2-I'm flying the 601xl with the D100 as my main flight instruments and t he D180 mounted on the passenger side for my engine instrumentation and EFIS backup.=C2- No problem seeing any of the instrument reading of the D180 f rom the pilot seat, either with or without split screen. =C2- George May 601XL 912s=C2- 150hrs Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics From: japhillipsga@aol.com Geoff, I am interested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm building. My concerns a re is it really big enough to see. I measured and the eyeball to panel dista nce is almost four feet. I don't want to be squinting trying to see some lit tle light bar so far away they all run together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won't keep up with a plane doing anything other than "airliner type " flying.=C2-That it is too slow and is always trying to catch up ?=C2-I just have not had the opportunity to talk to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon a bunch of money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam gages and such as back up? Thanks and best regard s, Bill do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Heap Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics Your own words Don Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But th e abiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? " If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. Bells and histles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined EFIS/enigin e onitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, pitot ube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying to se ll ynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the nigma.....Geoff ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539 Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List ://forums.matronics.com More photos; more messages; more whatever =93 Get MORE with Windows Li ve=84=A2 Hotmail=C2=AE. NOW with 5GB storageTXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_5 G_0907' target='_new'>Get more! -= - The Zenith-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List -======================== -= - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content now also available via the Web Forums! -= --> http://forums.matronics.com -======================== ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http ://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics From: japhillipsga@aol.com Juan, thanks for the info. Have you flown=C2-at night ? Is there a dimmer to cool the light so you can see above the panel for landing ? I always have a problem with instrument lighting when landing at night. Thanks and best r egards, Bill 601XL 3300 120 hrs do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Juan Vega Sent: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:06 pm Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics no steamers on mine, just the dynons, with Back up batteries. Juan -----Original Message----- From: george may Sent: Sep 21, 2007 6:34 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics Bill-- I'm flying the 601xl with the D100 as my main flight instruments and the D1 80 ounted on the passenger side for my engine instrumentation and EFIS backup. No roblem seeing any of the instrument reading of the D180 from the pilot seat, ither with or without split screen. George May 601XL 912s 150hrs ri, 21 Sep 2007 13:21:21 -0400From: japhillipsga@aol.comGeoff, I am interest ed n the D180 for the RV-8a I'm building. My concerns are is it really big enou gh o see. I measured and the eyeball to panel distance is almost four feet. I on't want to be squinting trying to see some little light bar so far away th ey ll run together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won't keep up with a pl ane oing anything other than "airliner type" flying. That it is too slow and is lways trying to catch up ? I just have not had the opportunity to talk to nyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon a bunch of money I ope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam gages and such as bac k p? Thanks and best regards, Billdo not archive-----Original Message-----From : eoff Heap To: zenith-list@matronics.comSent: Thu, 20 Sep 007 5:27 pmSubject: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics Your own words Don "Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But t he jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? " If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. Bells nd whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined EFIS/enigi ne monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, pitot tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying to s ell >Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the Inigma.....Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539 Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! _________________________________________________________________ More photos; more messages; more whatever =93 Get MORE with Windows Li ve=84=A2 otmail=C2=AE. NOW with 5GB storage. ration_HM_mini_5G_0907 -= - The Zenith-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List -======================== -= - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content now also available via the Web Forums! -= --> http://forums.matronics.com -======================== ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http ://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:34 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: trim tab Vann, The elevator is removable. If you'd built the elevator, you'd have to have it completed to install the trim tab anyway, so I'd recommend you consider adding the externalized trim tab on your bench at home and follow the guidance provided in the plans. The only complication is extending wiring for this thru the plane, but that's the worst of it. If you need more info, email me off site. See link of installation, http://www.macsmachine.com/html/trimtelevatortrimtabs.htm Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com vann covington wrote: > I have a question about the electric trim tab in the elevator. I > purchased a partially built kit and the previous builder did not use > the trim kit. Any suggestions for a retrofit? Thanks, Vann, NC > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:30 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable size Dave, I understand your concern, but a properly supported cable is not going to get tired the first 100 years and fail all by itself unless you put it under stress. Properly done cables are not placed under stress. To have cable fatigue you have to hang a battery from it or some flexing tensioned condition and in this case I'd agree with you. Larry McFarland David Downey wrote: > I respectfully disagree. Soldered connections lead to cable fatigue in > ALL cases - you may just not get there! > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > 100 HP Corvair > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:43 AM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me. LARRY , we had the same problem with a 2 blade prop , out about 5/16 out, sent the prop back they re checked it and sent it back, put it back on, same prob. Heat got to be a prob. also . Joe N101HD 601XL ----- Original Message ----- From: LRM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:13 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me. Not that many with the engine really. Most of them were my fault. In as far as the engine goes, the only real issue with the engine is the large power pulses. I had to go thru three props before I got one that was acceptable. The Warp Drive had a blade that tracked out over 1/4", I just could not get it to smooth out. I sold it on e-bay and lost my @#$#. The IVO prop was worse, one of it's blades wouldn't even fit on the prop hub without forcing it. They refunded my money. The Culver is best, but too long and too much pitch. All I could get was 3k static. It's now being re-done. I can't say enough good things about Larry Smith at Culver. The engine runs great, I have 21 hours on it. After all the engine is a Harley, and will never run as smooth as a car engine, what it is, is what it is. I had the engine mounted too hard to the firewall. I had eight mounts, so I felt every little shake rattle and roll, it is now back to the normal six. I had two supertrapp mufflers hung ridged off the engine, 4.5 lbs each, a foot back. They magnified the vibrations. They sounded good but are history, I now have straight pipes down. The biggest other problem I had were with the plastic gas tanks and lines from PegaStol. They used food service fittings and lines that wouldn't hold up to gasoline. I ended up building my own glass tanks and changed out all the lines to regular auto type fuel injections lines. I had to take the wings apart twice, lots of time. And, lots of little crap, like the EFIS didn't work, had to go back to the factory, I broke a knob off the radio, etc. Then I had a spinner that I didn't fasten properly and it came off at about 3000 rpm, and tore up the front of my cowl. So I had to rebuild the cowling. For a while I think I was snake bit. So I let it sit for a few months and did other things. Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Southern Reflections To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me. LARRY, WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS DID YOU HAVE WITH THE HOG - AIR ENG? How many hr. did you have on it? ----- Original Message ----- Joe N101HD 601XL From: LRM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:37 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me. Nope, this is for my new 701, totally different plane. Lengthened the wings and going with VGs on this one. The Hawg is still up and running, just waiting on a prop adjustment from Culver. I couldn't get the static rpm I needed. Hopefully real soon. The Hawg is working out, just takes a lot of patience. Building and designing is where the fun is anyway, Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: ZodieRocket To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New to me. Larry, this is going to be your 3rd engine installation, I am sorry to hear that the Hog didn=92t work out for you. If it has any weight, I have flown behind VW 701=92s and I would recommend a Gro conversion with a Raven redrive. I have found this to be a far better performer. However this is only my opinion and you do enjoy a challenge. Check out Rick Roberts website for installation in a 701 and look into www.nessaaircraft.net for great proven information on upping the performance of the geo to make your 701 a true performer. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: New to me. I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great Plains Type 1 engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I never heard of before. It said that if you wanted to paint your engine cylinders to mix enamel and gasoline 50/50. Has anyone out there done that, and if so, what were the results and did it hold up? Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L - The Zenith-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com 9/24/2007 11:27 AM 9/24/2007 11:27 AM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Release Date: 9/24/2007 11:27 AM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Release Date: 9/24/2007 11:27 AM ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:23 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics Bill, the dynons have a dimmer system internally. the GPS i have has a dimmer as well. the only thing without a dimmer is the readio and xpdr. not needed though since they are not very illuminated. compass is unlit. I have a red light behind be on a flex are that can be relocated to the front panel by unplugging. strobes work great, nav lights work good though one issue I had is nav lights with tail light pull 7 amps, the switch the electrician put in is only 5 amps, so keeps goin on me. that is an easy fix. some of the best flyin in florida is done shortly after sun set or on a ful moon at night. I take my wife on date nights down the coast over the water on a full moon clear night is unbelievable. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: japhillipsga@aol.com >Sent: Sep 25, 2007 12:04 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > > >Juan, thanks for the info. Have you flownat night ? Is there a dimmer to cool the light so you can see above the panel for landing ? I always have a problem with instrument lighting when landing at night. Thanks and best regards, Bill 601XL 3300 120 hrs > >do not archive > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Juan Vega >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Sent: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:06 pm >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > > >no steamers on mine, just the dynons, with Back up batteries. >Juan >-----Original Message----- >From: george may >Sent: Sep 21, 2007 6:34 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > > >Bill-- > I'm flying the 601xl with the D100 as my main flight instruments and the D180 >ounted on the passenger side for my engine instrumentation and EFIS backup. No >roblem seeing any of the instrument reading of the D180 from the pilot seat, >ither with or without split screen. > >George May >601XL 912s 150hrs > > >To: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: ElectronicsDate: >ri, 21 Sep 2007 13:21:21 -0400From: japhillipsga@aol.comGeoff, I am interested >n the D180 for the RV-8a I'm building. My concerns are is it really big enough >o see. I measured and the eyeball to panel distance is almost four feet. I >on't want to be squinting trying to see some little light bar so far away they >ll run together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won't keep up with a plane >oing anything other than "airliner type" flying. That it is too slow and is >lways trying to catch up ? I just have not had the opportunity to talk to >nyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon a bunch of money I >ope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam gages and such as back >p? Thanks and best regards, Billdo not archive-----Original Message-----From: >eoff Heap To: zenith-list@matronics.comSent: Thu, 20 Sep >007 5:27 pmSubject: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > >Your own words Don >"Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But the >jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? " > >If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. Bells >nd >whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined EFIS/enigine >monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, pitot >tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying to sell >>Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the >Inigma.....Geoff > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539 > > >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > > >_________________________________________________________________ >More photos; more messages; more whatever Get MORE with Windows Live >otmail. NOW with 5GB storage. >ration_HM_mini_5G_0907 > >-= - The Zenith-List Email Forum - >-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse >-= the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page, >-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >-= Photoshare, and much much more: >-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List >-========================-= - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >-= Same great content now also available via the Web Forums! >-= --> http://forums.matronics.com >-======================= > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:49 AM PST US From: "Gary Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: trim tab This is not a problem since the trim tab can easily be cut after completing the elevator. Check out the Zenith Builders web site for latest drawings to be sure you are making the full span version of the tab. ----- Original Message ----- From: vann covington To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: trim tab I have a question about the electric trim tab in the elevator. I purchased a partially built kit and the previous builder did not use the trim kit. Any suggestions for a retrofit? Thanks, Vann, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/24/07 7:09 PM ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:14 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Zenith-List: first batch of photos Okay, I finally got around to it. One correction from the earlier email..... I had a brain fart about the screws I decided to use to secure the cover. They are #6-32 button head stainless steel screws with allen socket heads. The nutplates are K1000-6 with countersunk 3/32 solid rivets "squoze" in place. In the photo of the rear of the cover, the brakelines had not been threaded through their grommets yet. As the photos show, there is nothing sacred about putting the transponder antenna and/or the gascolator in the center channel. Since I am using that area to run brakelines and wiring, I mounted the transponder's little "Marvin the Martian" antenna between my left seat rudder pedals and the gascolator ahead of and between the right seat rudder pedals. If you have specific questions, ask and I'll try to respond. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Trainnut01@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 5:31 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transponder antenna location forward of center section Dred The C-Channel sounds like a wonderful idea. Do you have any pictures of that installation? Thanks Carroll do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See whtarget="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/25/2007 8:02 AM ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:22 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Zenith-List: next batch of photos Second batch Dred ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:48 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Zenith-List: Third and final This is the last batch. Write if you need more or other info. Dred ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:53 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Third and final My apologies to the list. The three recent emails with photos were supposed to be sent off-list and I screwed up. Oh well, if anyone else wanted to see them, the mistake has already been made. Mea Maxima Culpa, Dred Do Not Archive Do Not Flame Me ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:14 AM PST US From: "Robert Loer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute That was a bad thing! >------- Original Message ------- >From : Gig Giacona[mailto:wr.giacona@suddenlink.net] >Sent : 9/25/2007 6:58:57 AM >To : zenith-list@matronics.com >Cc : >Subject : RE: Zenith-List: Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute > Since we are talking about chutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1PX7G0u0yI -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136321#136321 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:18 AM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Third and final You did good Dred ,very informative . DO NOT ARCHIVE Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Moody II To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 12:43 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Third and final My apologies to the list. The three recent emails with photos were supposed to be sent off-list and I screwed up. Oh well, if anyone else wanted to see them, the mistake has already been made. Mea Maxima Culpa, Dred Do Not Archive Do Not Flame Me ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:30 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Third and final Thank you very much. I'm not quite there yet but I kept remembering the nightmare I had at this point with my RV. I believe you have the answer. Thanks again Carroll ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:56 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Balistic Recovery Parachute From: "PatrickW" What about the 601XL...? Patrick XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136389#136389 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:03 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Home Built Help From: "SkipperClyde" I recently purchased duplicate of two Homebuilt Help Videos: Weight & Balance 101 for Homebuilts & How To License your Homebuilt Aircraft If any one is interested, I'll sell each for $25 including shipping. Please contact me offline at Bluebird@Townsqr.com thanks phil 601XL O235 20% Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136391#136391 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? From: "PatrickW" Can anyone tell me exactly how long the crate is for the 601XL fuselage component kit...? So I can arrange for a trailer. I couldn't find it in the archives. I learned the hard way (with my wing kit) that there's a BIG difference between "12 feet" and "12 feet 6 inches". Especially when you try to use a 12 foot trailer with a tailgate... :) Thanks, Patrick XLCorvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136392#136392 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:01 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? From: "DaveG601XL" Patrick, I remember it being 12' 6". Also, one end was a bit heavier than the other. Place this end towards the front. Have fun! -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136404#136404 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:32 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Third and final From: "DaveG601XL" Dred, We are all better off having seen them. It gives me some good ideas. Thanks! -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136408#136408 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:10 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Third and final I think the design and photos are great! Consider posting them to the Matronics photo-share, All though they can be viewed right now through the messages my experience is that they will disappear in a month or so. -- Craig do not archive _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody II Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Third and final My apologies to the list. The three recent emails with photos were supposed to be sent off-list and I screwed up. Oh well, if anyone else wanted to see them, the mistake has already been made. Mea Maxima Culpa, Dred Do Not Archive Do Not Flame Me ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:19 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? From: "SkipperClyde" Mine measures 1/2 inch under 16 feet Skipperclyde Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136438#136438 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:38 PM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me. A two blade prop tracking problem is easy to fix, just put a little aluminum tape under the low side between the hub and prop until you get you get it tracking right. It doesn't take much to make a whole bunch of difference at the tip. I had to do that on the Culver. A three or four blade is possible to correct that way but harder to get right. Both of these guys, i.e., Warp Drive/ IVO said a 1'4" out of track was acceptable. I don't agree, if it ain't tracking true, it can't be smooth. It is not so difficult to get it right. Warp Drive told me that sometimes they come out a little different from the molds. Well most of you know I do a lot of glass work and I'm here to tell you that if you use the same mold on two parts and leave them in long enough to cure, they are exactly the same. If you pop them early, they can distort. They just get in a hurry and won't admit the problem. I got the heat problem corrected, had to do some creative baffling, but is under control. Take care, Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Southern Reflections To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me. LARRY , we had the same problem with a 2 blade prop , out about 5/16 out, sent the prop back they re checked it and sent it back, put it back on, same prob. Heat got to be a prob. also . Joe N101HD 601XL ----- Original Message ----- From: LRM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:13 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me. Not that many with the engine really. Most of them were my fault. In as far as the engine goes, the only real issue with the engine is the large power pulses. I had to go thru three props before I got one that was acceptable. The Warp Drive had a blade that tracked out over 1/4", I just could not get it to smooth out. I sold it on e-bay and lost my @#$#. The IVO prop was worse, one of it's blades wouldn't even fit on the prop hub without forcing it. They refunded my money. The Culver is best, but too long and too much pitch. All I could get was 3k static. It's now being re-done. I can't say enough good things about Larry Smith at Culver. The engine runs great, I have 21 hours on it. After all the engine is a Harley, and will never run as smooth as a car engine, what it is, is what it is. I had the engine mounted too hard to the firewall. I had eight mounts, so I felt every little shake rattle and roll, it is now back to the normal six. I had two supertrapp mufflers hung ridged off the engine, 4.5 lbs each, a foot back. They magnified the vibrations. They sounded good but are history, I now have straight pipes down. The biggest other problem I had were with the plastic gas tanks and lines from PegaStol. They used food service fittings and lines that wouldn't hold up to gasoline. I ended up building my own glass tanks and changed out all the lines to regular auto type fuel injections lines. I had to take the wings apart twice, lots of time. And, lots of little crap, like the EFIS didn't work, had to go back to the factory, I broke a knob off the radio, etc. Then I had a spinner that I didn't fasten properly and it came off at about 3000 rpm, and tore up the front of my cowl. So I had to rebuild the cowling. For a while I think I was snake bit. So I let it sit for a few months and did other things. Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Southern Reflections To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me. LARRY, WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS DID YOU HAVE WITH THE HOG - AIR ENG? How many hr. did you have on it? ----- Original Message ----- Joe N101HD 601XL From: LRM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:37 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New to me. Nope, this is for my new 701, totally different plane. Lengthened the wings and going with VGs on this one. The Hawg is still up and running, just waiting on a prop adjustment from Culver. I couldn't get the static rpm I needed. Hopefully real soon. The Hawg is working out, just takes a lot of patience. Building and designing is where the fun is anyway, Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: ZodieRocket To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New to me. Larry, this is going to be your 3rd engine installation, I am sorry to hear that the Hog didn=92t work out for you. If it has any weight, I have flown behind VW 701=92s and I would recommend a Gro conversion with a Raven redrive. I have found this to be a far better performer. However this is only my opinion and you do enjoy a challenge. Check out Rick Roberts website for installation in a 701 and look into www.nessaaircraft.net for great proven information on upping the performance of the geo to make your 701 a true performer. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: New to me. I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great Plains Type 1 engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I never heard of before. It said that if you wanted to paint your engine cylinders to mix enamel and gasoline 50/50. Has anyone out there done that, and if so, what were the results and did it hold up? Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L - The Zenith-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com 9/24/2007 11:27 AM 9/24/2007 11:27 AM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Release Date: 9/24/2007 11:27 AM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Release Date: 9/24/2007 11:27 AM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/25/2007 8:02 AM ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:11 PM PST US From: "Dick" Subject: Zenith-List: avex rivet question After installation, what is the acceptable criteria of the finished avex rivet? Is there any as with solid driven rivets on the shop head diameter and height? Thanks, Dick ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:23 PM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Four Stroke Outboard Engines It could be that the liquid cooling requirements are too demanding for use other than what the motor is designed for. Do not archive Terry I already have my Corvair engine, but was curious if any one looked into four stroke outboard power heads as an engine option? A Honda 90hp total weight is 379lbs, but I'd have to imagine only 1/3 of that is the actual engine block, and they're rated for 5500 rpm continuous use. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136332#136332 --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:49 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: trim tab From: "Ron Lendon" Here is how I did mine following the plans 6-T-6 dated 8/05 Recessed Elevator Trim Tab. After fabricating the elevator is was hard to cut it apart. Take a look here: http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=0&log=14761&row=366 -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136451#136451 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New to me. From: "PatrickW" Larry - You make it all sound so easy. Breaking new ground like this is amazing, and sharing the experience with the rest of us is appreciated. I swear if I ever win the lottery I'm going to retire and just follow guys like you around so I can learn stuff. If I ever buy lottery tickets. :) >From my vantage point as a first-time homebuilder, it would be like learning from Bernie Pietenpol or WW or Steve Wittman. Patrick XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136454#136454 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:47 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Zenith-List: VNE I n the Zenith owner"s manual the "limitation" post the VNE @ 150. mph, on there web site the vne is 180 ! what's wrong with this picture ? This is for a 601 XL I also haven't seen a stated HP max. I know there are 601's out there with 140 HP, mine is 130 hp . For what? if the Vne is 150. I am prone to belive 180 mph but , don't want to pull the wing's off. Joe N101HD 601 XL/ Subaru ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:42 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Third and final But they will make a great addition to HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/"www.ch601.org with permission. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 4:11 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Third and final I think the design and photos are great! Consider posting them to the Matronics photo-share, All though they can be viewed right now through the messages my experience is that they will disappear in a month or so. -- Craig do not archive _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody II Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Third and final My apologies to the list. The three recent emails with photos were supposed to be sent off-list and I screwed up. Oh well, if anyone else wanted to see them, the mistake has already been made. Mea Maxima Culpa, Dred Do Not Archive Do Not Flame Me href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronh ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 9/25/2007 8:02 AM 9/25/2007 8:02 AM ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:45 PM PST US From: Art Olechowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Balistic Recovery Parachute Mike Sinclair installed a BRS on his 701. Type Mike Sinclair or BRS in the archive. Art martyn@flight.co.za wrote: Hello, Has anybody here installed a Balistic recovery Parachute system to thier 701. If so what make and where did you attach the device. Sincerely Martyn Ward CH701 - ZU-DPL ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:35 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: VNE Original design (Experimental category) and LSA standards. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Southern Reflections Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:33 PM Subject: Zenith-List: VNE I n the Zenith owner"s manual the "limitation" post the VNE @ 150. mph, on there web site the vne is 180 ! what's wrong with this picture ? This is for a 601 XL I also haven't seen a stated HP max. I know there are 601's out there with 140 HP, mine is 130 hp . For what? if the Vne is 150. I am prone to belive 180 mph but , don't want to pull the wing's off. Joe N101HD 601 XL/ Subaru "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 9/25/2007 8:02 AM 9/25/2007 8:02 AM ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:28 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VNE The information I got direct from Zenith gives the Vne of the 601XL at 180mph. Mine is one of the earlier kits with the thinner rear skins. I have test flown to verify this Vne with no problems. 150mph is the the Vne of the 601HD, which is probably the model the owners manual you have was derived from. This page: http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-engine.html states a recommended engine power range of 80 to 125 Hp and up to 300 lbs installed weight. Southern Reflections wrote: > I n the Zenith owner"s manual the "limitation" post the VNE @ 150. mph, > on there web site the vne is 180 ! what's wrong with this picture > ? This is for a 601 XL I also haven't seen a stated HP max. I know > there are 601's out there with 140 HP, mine is 130 hp . For what? if > the Vne is 150. I am prone to belive 180 mph but , don't want to pull > the wing's off. Joe N101HD 601 XL/ Subaru > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:07 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VNE Thanks Bryan, the spec. sheet is the one that came with the plans,so it may be a goof-up at the factory. My XL is the eariler kit also, with the thin skin, I've been thinking about replaceing the rear deck with .025 it's like flying in a oil can. Then on the other hand, so was the factory built XL with the cont. engine. I know one thing mine has passed the" Shake" test with the" Harley "engine that fist powered it. Thank's again for the info . Joe N101HD 601 XL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:30 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VNE > > The information I got direct from Zenith gives the Vne of the 601XL at > 180mph. Mine is one of the earlier kits with the thinner rear skins. I > have test flown to verify this Vne with no problems. 150mph is the the Vne > of the 601HD, which is probably the model the owners manual you have was > derived from. > > This page: http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-engine.html states a > recommended engine power range of 80 to 125 Hp and up to 300 lbs installed > weight. > > Southern Reflections wrote: >> I n the Zenith owner"s manual the "limitation" post the VNE @ 150. mph, >> on there web site the vne is 180 ! what's wrong with this picture ? >> This is for a 601 XL I also haven't seen a stated HP max. I know there >> are 601's out there with 140 HP, mine is 130 hp . For what? if the Vne >> is 150. I am prone to belive 180 mph but , don't want to pull the wing's >> off. Joe N101HD 601 XL/ Subaru >> > > -- > Bryan Martin > Zenith 601XL N61BM > Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive > Do Not Archive > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:05 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VNE By the way ,Bryan what's the hp. on your eng ? Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:30 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: VNE > > The information I got direct from Zenith gives the Vne of the 601XL at > 180mph. Mine is one of the earlier kits with the thinner rear skins. I > have test flown to verify this Vne with no problems. 150mph is the the Vne > of the 601HD, which is probably the model the owners manual you have was > derived from. > > This page: http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-engine.html states a > recommended engine power range of 80 to 125 Hp and up to 300 lbs installed > weight. > > Southern Reflections wrote: >> I n the Zenith owner"s manual the "limitation" post the VNE @ 150. mph, >> on there web site the vne is 180 ! what's wrong with this picture ? >> This is for a 601 XL I also haven't seen a stated HP max. I know there >> are 601's out there with 140 HP, mine is 130 hp . For what? if the Vne >> is 150. I am prone to belive 180 mph but , don't want to pull the wing's >> off. Joe N101HD 601 XL/ Subaru >> > > -- > Bryan Martin > Zenith 601XL N61BM > Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive > Do Not Archive > > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:16 PM PST US From: Stanley Challgren Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Home Built Help Skipper Clyde: Are you saying that you have duplicated Jon's videos and now want to sell them for $25? Please tell me that you are not stealing his efforts. Stan N701VG On Sep 25, 2007, at 1:03 PM, SkipperClyde wrote: > > > I recently purchased duplicate of two Homebuilt Help Videos: > > Weight & Balance 101 for Homebuilts & > How To License your Homebuilt Aircraft > > If any one is interested, I'll sell each for $25 including > shipping. Please contact me offline at Bluebird@Townsqr.com > > thanks > phil > 601XL O235 20% > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136391#136391 > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:35 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: [ Jeffrey L. Davidson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jeffrey L. Davidson Lists: Zenith-List Subject: Zenith Gather 2007 at Winchester, Virginia http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net.09.25.2007/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:32 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Home Built Help From: "SkipperClyde" I'm not stealing anyone's efforts. I purchased duplicate originals and wish to sell one set of unopened, unplayed originals. Not unlike buying two of the same engines and deciding I don't need two, so I'll sell one. SkipperClyde Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136490#136490 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.