---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/01/07: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:14 AM - Re: New 95hp engine design. (kmccune) 2. 04:15 AM - Re: Will there be a Zenith kit version of the Patriot? (zedvair) 3. 05:30 AM - ROTAX 912 UL3 (martyn@flight.co.za) 4. 07:51 AM - Re: ROTAX 912 UL3 (txpilot) 5. 07:59 AM - Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape (Frank Derfler) 6. 08:36 AM - Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape (Gig Giacona) 7. 11:42 AM - Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape (Bryan Martin) 8. 02:09 PM - Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape (LHusky@aol.com) 9. 02:43 PM - Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape (LarryMcFarland) 10. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: Will there be a Zenith kit version of the Patriot? (RClaggf4u@aol.com) 11. 04:22 PM - chat http://chat.iahu.ca/ 2000est (Rob St Denis) 12. 05:07 PM - Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape (Juan Vega) 13. 07:26 PM - Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape (Dave Austin) 14. 07:43 PM - Re: Re: Will there be a Zenith kit version of the Patriot? (Al Hays) 15. 07:59 PM - Re: 701 in New England? (billmileski) 16. 09:14 PM - Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape (Southern Reflections) 17. 09:54 PM - Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape (Terry Turnquist) 18. 11:05 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 19. 11:10 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New 95hp engine design. From: "kmccune" Interesting, the 105 IS pretty light, strange that the website states 80 hp max and 80hp continuous. I'd like to see that power curve. It is available to but on there website though $ 13,125.53 US. -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137383#137383 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:32 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Will there be a Zenith kit version of the Patriot? From: "zedvair" Does the CH750 have leading edge slats? Or a Patriot like (conventional) airfoil? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137384#137384 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:07 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: ROTAX 912 UL3 From: martyn@flight.co.za Good day Folks, Down here in the Southern Hemisphere, we do not seem to have much choice regarding Power plants, unlike our lucky Northern Hemisphere counterparts, you all seem to be stuck for choice, what with Corvairs and Suzuki Geo's etc etc. Regardless, Rotax, pretty much rules the sky's here, and I have seen a advert for a 0 Hour, Rotax 912 UL3 going for a good price. Now, I have read that this particular flavor, the UL3, is for Constant speed propellors. Now my question is this, Does this mean it can only run Constant speed props or does it mean it has the required fittings for prop governors etc and can pretty much be flown with a Fixed Pitch prop if need be. Thanks in advance Martyn Ward CZAW CH701 ZU-DPL Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:28 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ROTAX 912 UL3 From: "txpilot" Martyn, The UL3 version simply means there is a propeller drive housing on the back of the reduction gear box for a prop governor. Yes, you can run a fixed pitch prop on this engine. Simply leave the reduction gear box fitting alone. The only issue with the version 3 is that you cannot run a vacuum pump. Dan Ginty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137407#137407 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:20 AM PST US From: "Frank Derfler" Subject: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape My AMD-made 601 has four long strips of non-skid tape on the wing roots right on the rivet lines. After slightly less than one year the tape is shabby, The upwind edges are peeling and it has generally faded and lost all of its grit. See my photo at http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com So, HELP! Has anyone ever removed this kind of tape from a painted surface? Will it take the World's supply of Goo-Gone? I'd rather just have the white paint. SInce I either wear Crocs or boat shoes to fly, I don't need non-skid. Any ideas on how to get rid of the tape and what to do then? Who has done it? -- Frank Derfler -- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com - Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM -Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com -For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:04 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape From: "Gig Giacona" That's terrible. Especially since there is non-skid tape out there that lasts YEARS AND YEARS. I would consider replacing it though instead of just removing it. While you know where to stand when you get in the tape shows passengers where to step. fderfler(at)gmail.com wrote: > My AMD-made 601 has four long strips of non-skid tape on the wing roots right on the rivet lines. After slightly less than one year the tape is shabby, The upwind edges are peeling and it has generally faded and lost all of its grit. See my photo at http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com (http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com) > > So, HELP! Has anyone ever removed this kind of tape from a painted surface? Will it take the World's supply of Goo-Gone? I'd rather just have the white paint. SInce I either wear Crocs or boat shoes to fly, I don't need non-skid. Any ideas on how to get rid of the tape and what to do then? Who has done it? > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137415#137415 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:42:44 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape AMD must be using some cheap tape or not preparing the surface very well. The 3M brand non-skid tape on my Zodiac is still holding strong after 3 years and shows no signs of losing its grit. I don't know how to remove the tape on your plane but since it is already peeling off in the wind, it shouldn't be too hare to remove the rest of it. On mine I originally had two 4" strips on each wing root and later decided to remove it and cover the entire inner 12" of the wing root with the tape so that I wouldn't have to polish the bare metal between the strips. I just carefully peeled the old tape off. Most of the adhesive stayed stuck to the tape and what little was left on the wing I wiped off with paint thinner. In fact, the adhesive left on the tape was still so sticky, I actually re-used some of it to fill in the gap between the inner edge of the new tape and the fuselage. I also wrapped some of the old tape around the entry step. Even the used tape is still stuck securely in place. The tape on the wing roots is stuck to pare metal and the step was painted before I put the tape on it. It seems to stick just as well either way. Frank Derfler wrote: > My AMD-made 601 has four long strips of non-skid tape on the wing roots > right on the rivet lines. After slightly less than one year the tape is > shabby, The upwind edges are peeling and it has generally faded and > lost all of its grit. See my photo at http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com > > So, HELP! Has anyone ever removed this kind of tape from a painted > surface? Will it take the World's supply of Goo-Gone? I'd rather just > have the white paint. SInce I either wear Crocs or boat shoes to fly, I > don't need non-skid. Any ideas on how to get rid of the tape and what > to do then? Who has done it? > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:09:48 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape Well, I know that when I removed the factory decals off of my truck, to prepare for painting, I took a heat gun and heated it up and then the adhesive softened up and I was able to peel it right off. Before I heated it up, there is no way I was going to get it. Now, be careful, those heat guns get really hot, so start out way above the strip and work your way down to find the right distance. You do not want to burn your paint. Also, I did little sections at a time instead of trying to do the whole piece at once. Once it was removed, I used Goof Off to remove what little adhesive was left on the paint. I do not see why this would not work on your plane as well. I can not say for sure, since there is no paint on anything of mine yet? Larry Husky 601XL/Corvair ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:12 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape Frank, I'd advise you to try a steam iron and peel it very slowly at low tension. I'd also recommend you use the Ray Allen company material to cover the rivets and all. Their product is not gritty is easy to install and not terribly costly. The sheet is placed exactly to position, lifted one end and separated from the peel strip and laid down. The other end is then lifted and the peel strip is removed and again the piece is lowered to position. It can be pressed down tight over each rivet using a common pin to release air and a AN5 nut to get contact all round each rivet. Goes down nice. I'm sure you'd like it much more than bare paint too. My wing as done see link, http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/wingwalk2.gif **www.rayallencompany.com/products/accessories.html. WWK-1 ... WING WALK MATERIAL** Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Frank Derfler wrote: > My AMD-made 601 has four long strips of non-skid tape on the wing > roots right on the rivet lines. After slightly less than one year the > tape is shabby, The upwind edges are peeling and it has generally > faded and lost all of its grit. See my photo at > http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com > > So, HELP! Has anyone ever removed this kind of tape from a painted > surface? Will it take the World's supply of Goo-Gone? I'd rather > just have the white paint. SInce I either wear Crocs or boat shoes to > fly, I don't need non-skid. Any ideas on how to get rid of the tape > and what to do then? Who has done it? > > -- > Frank Derfler ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:31 PM PST US From: RClaggf4u@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Will there be a Zenith kit version of the Patriot? Unbelievably I can't remember for sure. I'm almost positive it had slats as I recall it looked like it had 701 wings. You'd think I would notice if it didn't have slats considering all the talk of late about removing the slats. Wayne do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:41 PM PST US From: "Rob St Denis" Subject: Zenith-List: chat http://chat.iahu.ca/ 2000est http://chat.iahu.ca ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:37 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape guys, follow Larry's recommendation its a good one, and if you cant get the backing to come off, do the best you can then tape it off and use truck bed liner spray over the area. its thick enough to cover the residue of the tape and sturdy, juan -----Original Message----- >From: LarryMcFarland >Sent: Oct 1, 2007 5:34 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape > > > >Frank, >I'd advise you to try a steam iron and peel it very slowly at low tension. > >I'd also recommend you use the Ray Allen company material to cover the >rivets and all. >Their product is not gritty is easy to install and not terribly costly. > >The sheet is placed exactly to position, lifted one end and separated >from the peel strip >and laid down. The other end is then lifted and the peel strip is >removed and again the >piece is lowered to position. It can be pressed down tight over each rivet >using a common pin to release air and a AN5 nut to get contact all round >each rivet. > >Goes down nice. I'm sure you'd like it much more than bare paint too. > >My wing as done see link, >http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/wingwalk2.gif > >**www.rayallencompany.com/products/accessories.html. >WWK-1 ... WING WALK MATERIAL** > >Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > >Frank Derfler wrote: >> My AMD-made 601 has four long strips of non-skid tape on the wing >> roots right on the rivet lines. After slightly less than one year the >> tape is shabby, The upwind edges are peeling and it has generally >> faded and lost all of its grit. See my photo at >> http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com >> >> So, HELP! Has anyone ever removed this kind of tape from a painted >> surface? Will it take the World's supply of Goo-Gone? I'd rather >> just have the white paint. SInce I either wear Crocs or boat shoes to >> fly, I don't need non-skid. Any ideas on how to get rid of the tape >> and what to do then? Who has done it? >> >> -- >> Frank Derfler > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:58 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape I've wondered if putting the wing walk tape or spray or paint on the port wing is why there are complaints of "left wing heavy". Must play havoc with the air flow. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:43 PM PST US From: Al Hays Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Will there be a Zenith kit version of the Patriot? Unless there has been a change in plans at Zenith, it doesn't sound like they'll sell plans or a kit version. With all the factory built LSA's to compete with, I personally think a kit would sell better. See the article in this link I found doing a search for CH750 on their website. www.zenithair.com/news/ch750.html Al On Oct 1, 2007, at 5:51 PM, RClaggf4u@aol.com wrote: > > Unbelievably I can't remember for sure. I'm almost positive it had > slats as I recall it looked likeit had 701 wings. You'd think I would > notice if it didn't have slatsconsidering all the talk of late about > removing the slats. > Wayne > do not archive > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:30 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 in New England? From: "billmileski" Hi Dave, I have a 701 with 912S and have been trying to find the time to sneak away to NH for a weekend. I have a flight plan to Franconia ready, but time has been an issue for me. If I can make it happen I'll drop you an email, and certainly if you find yourself anywhere near the Groton, CT area, let me know. Bill Mileski (william(dot)mileski(at)gmail.com) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137547#137547 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:12 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape Dave,And everyone else out there ,How common is "heavy port wing"? I have that problem ,and it need's to be addressed, on my thing's to fix or adjust.All input is welcomed.. ----- Original Message ----- Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM From: "Dave Austin" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape > > I've wondered if putting the wing walk tape or spray or paint on the port > wing is why there are complaints of "left wing heavy". Must play havoc > with the air flow. > Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:51 PM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape Hi, not there yet, but I would guess the drag induced by the pitot tube, AOA Probe, landing light and my own fat butt in the left seat might cause it! Do not archive Terry Turnquist 601-XL Plans St. Peters, MO Dave,And everyone else out there ,How common is "heavy port wing"? I have that problem ,and it need's to be addressed, on my thing's to fix or adjust.All input is welcomed.. ----- Original Message ----- Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM From: "Dave Austin" Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape > > I've wondered if putting the wing walk tape or spray or paint on the port > wing is why there are complaints of "left wing heavy". Must play havoc > with the air flow. > Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII > > > --------------------------------- Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:33 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Zenith-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Zenith-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Zenith-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Zenith-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:45 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Zenith-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Zenith-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.