Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question (GLENN JOHNSON)
2. 07:32 AM - Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape (ashontz)
3. 07:38 AM - Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy hoops? (victor verdev)
4. 07:40 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
5. 08:21 AM - Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy hoops? (John Bolding)
6. 08:25 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (n85ae)
7. 08:33 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
8. 08:36 AM - Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure (macleod@eagle.ca)
9. 08:47 AM - Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question (Tim Juhl)
10. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
11. 09:25 AM - Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question (swater6)
12. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: TIP TAP (japhillipsga@aol.com)
13. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (William Dominguez)
14. 10:26 AM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Craig Payne)
15. 10:31 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
16. 10:37 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
17. 10:43 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
18. 10:44 AM - Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? (Juan Vega)
19. 10:50 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
20. 10:54 AM - Re: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? (PatrickW)
21. 11:34 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (n85ae)
22. 11:39 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
23. 11:43 AM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (William Dominguez)
24. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
25. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (William Dominguez)
26. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
27. 11:51 AM - Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? (Jaybannist@cs.com)
28. 11:58 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
29. 12:23 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
30. 12:27 PM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
31. 01:06 PM - Zenith building expense (Randy L. Thwing)
32. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
33. 01:14 PM - Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? (DaveG601XL)
34. 01:51 PM - Re: Zenith building expense (n85ae)
35. 02:40 PM - weight and Balance (Juan Vega)
36. 02:40 PM - weight and Balance (Juan Vega)
37. 02:49 PM - Re: Zenith building expense (Paul Mulwitz)
38. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? (Juan Vega)
39. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Bill Naumuk)
40. 03:26 PM - Re: weight and Balance (LHusky@aol.com)
41. 03:39 PM - Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure (Peter Chapman)
42. 04:42 PM - Re: weight and Balance (Craig Payne)
43. 04:42 PM - About True Track Autopilot (Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito)
44. 04:49 PM - Re: About True Track Autopilot (Craig Payne)
45. 04:57 PM - Re: Zenith building expense (Randy L. Thwing)
46. 05:39 PM - Sorry Guys it is another long winded response (ZodieRocket)
47. 05:42 PM - Stratus Subaru seasonal mixture (LarryMcFarland)
48. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
49. 06:09 PM - Re: Stratus Subaru seasonal mixture (ZodieRocket)
50. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Robin Bellach)
51. 06:44 PM - Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response (kmccune)
52. 06:55 PM - Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure (John M. Goodings)
53. 07:03 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
54. 07:12 PM - Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response (Kevin L. Rupert)
55. 07:19 PM - Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response (Paul Mulwitz)
56. 07:20 PM - Re: Heavy left wing7 (John M. Goodings)
57. 07:22 PM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
58. 07:25 PM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
59. 07:28 PM - Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure (Edward Micallef)
60. 07:41 PM - Kit vs plans and costs. (ZodieRocket)
61. 07:46 PM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (Craig Payne)
62. 08:36 PM - Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? (PatrickW)
63. 08:39 PM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (Leo Gates)
64. 09:11 PM - Re: Re: avex rivet question clarification (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
65. 09:45 PM - Re: About True Track Autopilot (N601RT)
66. 10:15 PM - Re: Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Robert Loer)
67. 10:31 PM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (Robert Loer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question |
JUST A NOTE ON WHAT HAPPEN TO ME. I FOLLOWED THE MEASUREMENTS AND I BELIEV
E THAT I HAVE TOO MUCH TRIMMED BACK. I AM GETTING READY TO FIT THE WINGS S
O I WILL FIND OUT SOON ENOUGH.
GLENN> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question> From:
juhl@avci.net> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 09:06:32 -0700> To: zenith-list@matron
The drawings give the measurements for marking and cutting the wing skins
at their inboard edges. I'm not that far along but is there a reason you ch
ose not to use those measurements?> > Tim> > --------> ______________> CFII
> Champ L16A flying> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A> Working on wings> > > > > Re
ad this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p
======================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!- Play Star Shuffle:- the word scramble
challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oc
t
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Getting Rid of Non-Skid Tape |
Heat gun sounds good. If you have to scrape, use a plastic scraper, maybe a windshield
ice scraper. You may be able to soak it with acetone under the edges too.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137830#137830
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy hoops? |
No washers under rivet heads.
--- John Bolding <jnbolding1@teleshare.net> wrote:
> Did that on my RV3 about 35 yrs/2000 hrs ago, no
> cracks so far but testing continues.
>
> LOW&SLO John
>
>
>
> >At Oshkosh this year I noticed the factory
> assembled 601XL in the Sports
> Planes area had soft aluminum pop rivets holding
> the canopy to the tubes and
> the side frames.
>
> Thanks, I had considered that approach too but
> didn't want to be the first
> guy to try it ;-)
>
> Did they use any washers under the head of the
> rivets?
>
> -- Craig
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Building from scratch is pretty cheap. Figure $5,000 in materials, maybe a little
more. Corvair with conversion, another $2,000. Basic instruments, $2,500 -
$3,000. If it takes you 4 years that's $2,500/yr, or about $200/month.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137835#137835
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on canopy hoops? |
Actually I used countersunk alum pops (and countersunk the canopy) as
there was an epoxy /glass canopy skirt that went on top of the rivets
and I didn't want any bumps, those kind of things hold little
importance now while building the 701, the whole thing is a bump.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: victor verdev
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivnuts instead of self-tapping screws on
canopy hoops?
No washers under rivet heads.
--- John Bolding <jnbolding1@teleshare.net> wrote:
> Did that on my RV3 about 35 yrs/2000 hrs ago, no
> cracks so far but testing continues.
>
> LOW&SLO John
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Get real! If you want to build a real plane, that is not really
"experimental", then you're talking Lycoming, Continental,
Rotax, Jabiru, etc. You're also going to spend money on other stuff.
If you scrounge, and convert a car engine, etc. you can be one of the
miracle builders. But for the average guy, it's not gonna happen. PLus
it shouldn't. Do your families a favor, and don't hobby yourself into
becoming a statistic. Flying is dangerous enough.
Mid-Thirties is the bottom end - Realistically.
Yes, I've seen stuff that looks like it was powered by Briggs and Stratton
with a carved 2x4 for a prop, I've also had the pleasure of watching
a hangar neighbor continuously wrenching on his NSI turbo Subaru,
which he enjoyed immensely since he was a tinkerer. Yep 12 hours of
wrenching for every hour of flight, not to mention the occasional dead
stick landing ....
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137844#137844
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I have gotten real, I built a hefty low-tolerance 8 foot bending brake with a 1/8
inch radius bend, made all the forms, and built a rudder, an elevator, a stabilizer,
and wing for about $1,200 with rivets from Zenith and 6061-T6 from aircraft
spruce. And every part is well within tolerances per Zenith. As far as
an engine goes, go talk to William Wynne about Corvairs, they're excellent engines.
Don't get pissed at me you're struggling with a $20,000 kit less engine. LOL
do not archive
n85ae wrote:
> Get real! If you want to build a real plane, that is not really
> "experimental", then you're talking Lycoming, Continental,
> Rotax, Jabiru, etc. You're also going to spend money on other stuff.
>
> If you scrounge, and convert a car engine, etc. you can be one of the
> miracle builders. But for the average guy, it's not gonna happen. PLus
> it shouldn't. Do your families a favor, and don't hobby yourself into
> becoming a statistic. Flying is dangerous enough.
>
> Mid-Thirties is the bottom end - Realistically.
>
> Yes, I've seen stuff that looks like it was powered by Briggs and Stratton
> with a carved 2x4 for a prop, I've also had the pleasure of watching
> a hangar neighbor continuously wrenching on his NSI turbo Subaru,
> which he enjoyed immensely since he was a tinkerer. Yep 12 hours of
> wrenching for every hour of flight, not to mention the occasional dead
> stick landing ....
>
> Jeff
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137847#137847
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
Edward:
I had a similar problem with my 912S a few years ago. At first the
pressure would jump from 50 psi to 90 psi stay there for a few seconds
then drop back to 50. A few hours later it would go to 90psi and stay
there. The problem turned out to be a loose connection on the sender.
NOTE: when I first checked the sender connections they seemed ok, later
after I disconnected the sender and did a good reconnection the problem
went away.
Mike
601XL waiting for Rotax FWF
>The engine is a Rotax 912 UL # 4401716... Lately I have noticed that the oil
> pressure is higher than what is specified in the manual. It is supposed
> to be 22-72 psi , when I am turning about 5000 rpm it fluctuate over
> 80psi.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question |
Very interesting! Dave and Glenn, I for one would like to know what you end up
with once the wings are installed. For now I think I'll mark the factory cut
lines but leave a little extra.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137853#137853
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I think his #'s are way off if you are wanting to scratch build a nice safe
aircraft.... The spread sheet attached is real world #'s with the part numbers
of a plane I did a builder assist on. It has aluminum brake and fuel lines
and the spread sheet includes all the fittings for them also. It doesn't
include the aluminum for scratch building as I used a kit. But I have been kicking
around the idea of scratch building one and the best I can figure it will
cost around 25,000.
In a message dated 10/3/2007 10:41:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
Building from scratch is pretty cheap. Figure $5,000 in materials, maybe a
little more. Corvair with conversion, another $2,000. Basic instruments,
$2,500 - $3,000. If it takes you 4 years that's $2,500/yr, or about $200/month.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question |
Hi guys,
I had to order a new top skin from Zenith because I put a wrinkle in one of mine
while moving to a new house. The skins they supply now are precut both inboard
and outboard and they matched the skin I had cut based on the plans measurements.
So, I'm thinking that the measurements are good and they are confident
in them since they are now precut. I am leaving the bottom skins cut a little
larger until I mate to the fuselage just in case. As you know, you can always
cut more or drill bigger but not the other way around...
Scott
PS. As of a week ago, both of my wings are now complete and setting in my rack.
First holes drilled in the fuselage last weekend!!! Kind of a nice milestone!!
--------
601 XL kit
Tail, control surfaces and 1 wing complete
www.scottwaters.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137863#137863
Message 12
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I went flying the Monday morning.?Cooler and clear. On climb out the CHT for number
4 head went up to about 330 degrees as is it's norm. I climbed up to 3500
feet and trimed up for max cruise. The Jab 3300 was percing along just fine and
it is normal as well that after a brief period the CHTs all drop into the 270-290
degree range. That day number 4 head only reduced down to about 320 and
held there. I kept peeking over at the gage and waiting for it to drop. After
about three times as long as it should have taken to drop I reached over and
tapped the gage and it immediately dropped to 285 degrees. Now I know why I received
that covetous Repairman's Certificate !! I am a certified Aircraft Instrument
Expert !? So my tip is always tap your gage when the output isn't what
it should be. Like banging on the TV for better reception. Best regards, Bill
of Georgia 601XL-3300 120 hrs?
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Juhl <juhl@avci.net>
Sent: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:46 am
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Wing Skin to Fuselage Gap Question
Very interesting! Dave and Glenn, I for one would like to know what you end up
with once the wings are installed. For now I think I'll mark the factory cut
lines but leave a little extra.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137853#137853
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
This topic is baaack!
Sorry list, but some of us including myself just can get enough of this topic.
So here I go.
Jeff, no matter how much someone scrounge, We all agree that putting a Lyco, Continental,
Jabiru or Rotax and spend less than 30K is close to impossible, even
for non average builder. The < 30K crowd are those who are going for auto conversions,
specially the Corvair.
However, if you consider an auto conversion to be risky, unsafe, only reserved
for miracle builders or not having a real airplane, then that's another big topic
where you will find a lot of experienced builders disagreeing.
Some builders consider an auto conversion a bad way to loose one's marbles, in
the same way some pilots consider flying a homebuilt plane a bad way to loose
one's marbles. I knew one pilot with over 2,000 flight hours who is instrument,
multi engine certified and Mensa member, who consider flying a homebuilt plane
a crazy idea. When I told him that some builders have flown the Zodiac with
Harley Davidson engine he rolled up his eyes so much that he saw his brain.
Andy, 2,000 for a converted Corvair is way low.
Now, I'll just run for cover.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
Get real! If you want to build a real plane, that is not really
"experimental", then you're talking Lycoming, Continental,
Rotax, Jabiru, etc. You're also going to spend money on other stuff.
If you scrounge, and convert a car engine, etc. you can be one of the
miracle builders. But for the average guy, it's not gonna happen. PLus
it shouldn't. Do your families a favor, and don't hobby yourself into
becoming a statistic. Flying is dangerous enough.
Mid-Thirties is the bottom end - Realistically.
Yes, I've seen stuff that looks like it was powered by Briggs and Stratton
with a carved 2x4 for a prop, I've also had the pleasure of watching
a hangar neighbor continuously wrenching on his NSI turbo Subaru,
which he enjoyed immensely since he was a tinkerer. Yep 12 hours of
wrenching for every hour of flight, not to mention the occasional dead
stick landing ....
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137844#137844
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
To give you a lower bound here is Bill Clapp's Corvair-powered KR2S built
(with engine) for $7200:
http://www.krnet.org/krs/wc/
Now somebody will say "but it's composite".
-- Craig
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
No, those numbers are not way off. They're right on the money. I have spent $1,200
- $1,300 to build a rudder, the elevator, the stabilizer, and the left wing
not including the ailerons including rivets from Zenith. Nothing unsafe about
it. The parts are to spec per the plans. Just off the top of my head, I'd say
I've used about 7 sheets of 4 x 12 6061-T6 in various thinknesses. A sheet
from Aircraft spruce is about $90. So right there we're looking at about $650
for 85% of the materials required for those parts. Add in $350 for my 8' bending
brake and we're up to $1,600 - $1,700.
Now if you consider those parts are identical to what would be shipped from Zenith,
then that 'safety issue' is irrelavent. The next safety issue is the assembly
process, in which case there is no difference between a scratch builder and
a kit builder. Actually, if anything, the scratch builder may be a safer builder
due to the skill set developed to actually make the parts to spec, giving
the scratch builder an even better overall metalurgical best-practices understanding
of the building process.
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
> I think his #'s are way off if you are wanting to scratch build a nice safe
aircraft.... The spread sheet attached is real world #'s with the part numbers
of a plane I did a builder assist on. It has aluminum brake and fuel lines and
the spread sheet includes all the fittings for them also. It doesn't include
the aluminum for scratch building as I used a kit. But I have been kicking
around the idea of scratch building one and the best I can figure it will cost
around 25,000.
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/3/2007 10:41:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz@nbme.org
writes:
>
> > Building from scratch is pretty cheap. Figure $5,000 in materials, maybe
a little more. Corvair with conversion, another $2,000. Basic instruments,
$2,500 - $3,000. If it takes you 4 years that's $2,500/yr, or about $200/month.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137875#137875
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Sweet!!! Love it! Thanks for the link.
[quote="craig(at)craigandjean.com"]To give you a lower bound here is Bill Clapp's
Corvair-powered KR2S built (with engine) for $7200:
http://www.krnet.org/krs/wc/ (http://www.krnet.org/krs/wc/)
Now somebody will say "but it's composite".
-- Craig
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137877#137877
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I've rebuilt a lot of engines in my day. I don't think it'll be much more than
that. Maybe $3,000. I'm certainly not going to skimp on safety. If I can rebuild
a 4 cylinder outboard engine or a car engine for $500, I can't imagine a Corvair
being that much more, they're just parts and they're readily available.
About the only difference is some of the specialty items on it.
[quote="bill_dom(at)yahoo.com"]This topic is baaack!
Sorry list, but some of us including myself just can get enough of this topic.
So here I go.
Jeff, no matter how much someone scrounge, We all agree that putting a Lyco, Continental,
Jabiru or Rotax and spend less than 30K is close to impossible, even
for non average builder. The < 30K crowd are those who are going for auto conversions,
specially the Corvair.
However, if you consider an auto conversion to be risky, unsafe, only reserved
for miracle builders or not having a real airplane, then that's another big topic
where you will find a lot of experienced builders disagreeing.
Some builders consider an auto conversion a bad way to loose one's marbles, in
the same way some pilots consider flying a homebuilt plane a bad way to loose
one's marbles. I knew one pilot with over 2,000 flight hours who is instrument,
multi engine certified and Mensa member, who consider flying a homebuilt plane
a crazy idea. When I told him that some builders have flown the Zodiac with
Harley Davidson engine he rolled up his eyes so much that he saw his brain.
Andy, 2,000 for a converted Corvair is way low.
Now, I'll just run for cover.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
Get real! If you want to build a real plane, that is not really
"experimental", then you're talking Lycoming, Continental,
Rotax, Jabiru, etc. You're also going to spend money on other stuff.
If you scrounge, and convert a car engine, etc. you can be one of the
miracle builders. But for the average guy, it's not gonna happen. PLus
it shouldn't. Do your families a favor, and don't hobby yourself into
becoming a statistic. Flying is
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137880#137880
Message 18
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| Subject: | 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
if you follow the plans specs, they should align well. I am proud to say mine
came out trimmed out. aileron and flap align nice. Check the flap stop is 4
to 5mm from trail edge.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jaybannist@cs.com
>Sent: Oct 2, 2007 10:10 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...?
>
>
>Mine did not line up, not by a long shot. It was so far off (probably 20mm) the
hingeless attachment was not possible. I got ZAC to send me wide hinges and
and a doubler, and converted to hinged ailerons.
>
>Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
>
>
>"PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Are the trailing edges of the Aileron and the Flap aligned with one another when
both are in the "neutral" position...?
>>
>>I'm getting ready to drill the hingeless ailerons on my 601XL, and I've also
got my flaps sitting there next to them, just to give it an "eyeball" check.
>>
>>The measurements seem to check, but it just doesn't look right....
>>
>>Anybody with a completed wing that can give me a sanity check on the measurement
between the trailing edge rivet line on the wing and the leading edge rivet
line on the aileron?
>>
>>Is your entire trailing edge "one smooth line" across the ailerons and flaps...?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Patrick
>>XL/Corvair
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137730#137730
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I believe I see the secret to Williams 'success' in the background of one of the
pix. Anyone else catch it? It's lime green. It's a drivable early 70s VW Beetle.
He doesn't just build planes, he's been farting around with this type of
stuff all his life I would guess.
[quote="craig(at)craigandjean.com"]To give you a lower bound here is Bill Clapp's
Corvair-powered KR2S built (with engine) for $7200:
http://www.krnet.org/krs/wc/ (http://www.krnet.org/krs/wc/)
Now somebody will say "but it's composite".
-- Craig
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137882#137882
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage Component Crate Length? |
Crate shipped today.
Shirley said it's 127" x 49" x 28" and weighs 357 lbs.
601XL fuselage, controls, and gear.
Woo Hoo!
PatrickW
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137883#137883
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I think mid thirties is the most realistic minimum. At least for anything
that I would think about flying. :)
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137890#137890
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
n85ae wrote:
> I think mid thirties is the most realistic minimum. At least for anything
> that I would think about flying. :)
>
> Jeff
Ok, I'll build you one and sell it to you for $35,000. Then we'll know it's nice
and safe. LOL
Price-wise, what makes it safe? Because it was purchased as a kit, even though
51% of the work was completed by some homebuilder of questionable talent. Or is
it the $25,000 O-200 Lycoming engine from Aircraft Spruce? I'm just curious
as to the logic?
What if I was an A&P mechanic and I built the hull for $6,000 and rebuilt an O-200
I had laying around myself for another $3,000 for a total of $9,000. Would
it be safe?
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137891#137891
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Yarde Metals is still cheaper than Aircraft Spruce and they pack the material very
nicely. You will need to purchase 5 to 8 sheet at a time in order to take
advantage of their better pricing.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
No, those numbers are not way off. They're right on the money. I have spent $1,200
- $1,300 to build a rudder, the elevator, the stabilizer, and the left wing
not including the ailerons including rivets from Zenith. Nothing unsafe about
it. The parts are to spec per the plans. Just off the top of my head, I'd say
I've used about 7 sheets of 4 x 12 6061-T6 in various thinknesses. A sheet
from Aircraft spruce is about $90. So right there we're looking at about $650
for 85% of the materials required for those parts. Add in $350 for my 8' bending
brake and we're up to $1,600 - $1,700.
Now if you consider those parts are identical to what would be shipped from Zenith,
then that 'safety issue' is irrelavent. The next safety issue is the assembly
process, in which case there is no difference between a scratch builder and
a kit builder. Actually, if anything, the scratch builder may be a safer builder
due to the skill set developed to actually make the parts to spec, giving
the scratch builder an even better overall metalurgical best-practices understanding
of the building process.
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
> I think his #'s are way off if you are wanting to scratch build a nice safe
aircraft.... The spread sheet attached is real world #'s with the part numbers
of a plane I did a builder assist on. It has aluminum brake and fuel lines and
the spread sheet includes all the fittings for them also. It doesn't include
the aluminum for scratch building as I used a kit. But I have been kicking
around the idea of scratch building one and the best I can figure it will cost
around 25,000.
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/3/2007 10:41:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz@nbme.org
writes:
>
> > Building from scratch is pretty cheap. Figure $5,000 in materials, maybe
a little more. Corvair with conversion, another $2,000. Basic instruments,
$2,500 - $3,000. If it takes you 4 years that's $2,500/yr, or about $200/month.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137875#137875
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
All I have to say is good luck with your 5,000 build as almost every one
here has said it is between 25 and 30 thousand to get a plane into the air. I
never said scratch building was unsafe or some how a lesser aircraft. But you
will find your 5,000 figure is going to grow to around 8 or 9 thousand and if
you look at my spread sheet you will see that WW's parts are around 5,000 to
do a safe conversion and the engine parts from clarks is 2,500.00 again to
build a safe reliable engine conversion and that doesn't count the 150.00
nitrate or machine work. If you use falcon heads another 1,200 so just the FWF
is
around 8,800.00 not counting the cowling, carb, airbox etc. So I would say
your #'s are off. I have built one and the numbers are what they are.
In a message dated 10/3/2007 1:33:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
No, those numbers are not way off. They're right on the money. I have spent
$1,200 - $1,300 to build a rudder, the elevator, the stabilizer, and the left
wing not including the ailerons including rivets from Zenith. Nothing unsafe
about it. The parts are to spec per the plans. Just off the top of my head,
I'd say I've used about 7 sheets of 4 x 12 6061-T6 in various thinknesses. A
sheet from Aircraft spruce is about $90. So right there we're looking at
about $650 for 85% of the materials required for those parts. Add in $350 for
my
8' bending brake and we're up to $1,600 - $1,700.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
If you made all of the parts yourself then you can get it around 3,000. But if
you buy all the parts from Clarks, WW and get your heads done by Falcon and you
crank by Nitron, then you are talking about 6K to 7K. Excluding FWF.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
I've rebuilt a lot of engines in my day. I don't think it'll be much more than
that. Maybe $3,000. I'm certainly not going to skimp on safety. If I can rebuild
a 4 cylinder outboard engine or a car engine for $500, I can't imagine a Corvair
being that much more, they're just parts and they're readily available.
About the only difference is some of the specialty items on it.
[quote="bill_dom(at)yahoo.com"]This topic is baaack!
Sorry list, but some of us including myself just can get enough of this topic.
So here I go.
Jeff, no matter how much someone scrounge, We all agree that putting a Lyco, Continental,
Jabiru or Rotax and spend less than 30K is close to impossible, even
for non average builder. The < 30K crowd are those who are going for auto conversions,
specially the Corvair.
However, if you consider an auto conversion to be risky, unsafe, only reserved
for miracle builders or not having a real airplane, then that's another big topic
where you will find a lot of experienced builders disagreeing.
Some builders consider an auto conversion a bad way to loose one's marbles, in
the same way some pilots consider flying a homebuilt plane a bad way to loose
one's marbles. I knew one pilot with over 2,000 flight hours who is instrument,
multi engine certified and Mensa member, who consider flying a homebuilt plane
a crazy idea. When I told him that some builders have flown the Zodiac with
Harley Davidson engine he rolled up his eyes so much that he saw his brain.
Andy, 2,000 for a converted Corvair is way low.
Now, I'll just run for cover.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
Get real! If you want to build a real plane, that is not really
"experimental", then you're talking Lycoming, Continental,
Rotax, Jabiru, etc. You're also going to spend money on other stuff.
If you scrounge, and convert a car engine, etc. you can be one of the
miracle builders. But for the average guy, it's not gonna happen. PLus
it shouldn't. Do your families a favor, and don't hobby yourself into
becoming a statistic. Flying is
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137880#137880
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Just build it..... who care's what it costs. If you do it for 5,000 10,000
who cares as long as your happy with it. My numbers are based on what it cost's
me to build one the way I want it built. You may choose to build one with
less expensive things if so when your done send us a pic and a list of costs to
help other builders build theirs cheaper.
In a message dated 10/3/2007 2:40:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
Ok, I'll build you one and sell it to you for $35,000. Then we'll know it's
nice and safe. LOL
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| Subject: | 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
Juan,
Actually, I did follow the plans and specs very carefully. It turns out that the
skins were not drilled correctly. See photos. The first one shows the alignment
if I were to get the proper edge distance on the aileron skin. The second
shows dots where the rivet holes in the aileron skin would have to be if I
aligned the trailing edge with the flap. At the tip, I could get the proper
overlap, but I suspect that "skewed" the aileron, somewhat. Therefore, I went
with the "real" hinges.
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
Do not archive
Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>if you follow the plans specs, they should align well. I am proud to say mine
came out trimmed out. aileron and flap align nice. Check the flap stop is 4
to 5mm from trail edge.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Jaybannist@cs.com
>>Sent: Oct 2, 2007 10:10 PM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...?
>>
>>
>>Mine did not line up, not by a long shot. It was so far off (probably 20mm)
the hingeless attachment was not possible. I got ZAC to send me wide hinges
and and a doubler, and converted to hinged ailerons.
>>
>>Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
>>
>>
>>"PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Are the trailing edges of the Aileron and the Flap aligned with one another
when both are in the "neutral" position...?
>>>
>>>I'm getting ready to drill the hingeless ailerons on my 601XL, and I've also
got my flaps sitting there next to them, just to give it an "eyeball" check.
>>>
>>>The measurements seem to check, but it just doesn't look right....
>>>
>>>Anybody with a completed wing that can give me a sanity check on the measurement
between the trailing edge rivet line on the wing and the leading edge rivet
line on the aileron?
>>>
>>>Is your entire trailing edge "one smooth line" across the ailerons and flaps...?
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>
>>>Patrick
>>>XL/Corvair
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137730#137730
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Not to drag on, but just adding up what you have listed here, by your own account,
looks more like 9,000 + 8,800 for fuselage and engine. Where's the extra $17,200?
If you're not going ape with avionics, even by your own admission you
should be under $20,000.
Even so, I said $5,000 - $6,000 for fuselage, $10,000 total, that's a possibility
for a bare bones plane, depending on how much of the engine I do myself, and
I will do a lot.
[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]All I have to say is good luck with your 5,000 build
as almost every one here has said it is between 25 and 30 thousand to get
a plane into the air. I never said scratch building was unsafe or some how
a lesser aircraft. But you will find your 5,000 figure is going to grow to around
8 or 9 thousand and if you look at my spread sheet you will see that WW's
parts are around 5,000 to do a safe conversion and the engine parts from clarks
is 2,500.00 again to build a safe reliable engine conversion and that doesn't
count the 150.00 nitrate or machine work. If you use falcon heads another
1,200 so just the FWF is around 8,800.00 not counting the cowling, carb, airbox
etc. So I would say your #'s are off. I have built one and the numbers
are what they are.
In a message dated 10/3/2007 1:33:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz@nbme.org
writes:
> No, those numbers are not way off. They're right on the money. I have spent
$1,200 - $1,300 to build a rudder, the elevator, the stabilizer, and the
left wing not including the ailerons including rivets from Zenith. Nothing
unsafe about it. The parts are to spec per the plans. Just off the top of my
head, I'd say I've used about 7 sheets of 4 x 12 6061-T6 in various thinknesses.
A sheet from Aircraft spruce is about $90. So right there we're looking
at about $650 for 85% of the materials required for those parts. Add
in $350 for my 8' bending brake and we're up to $1,600 - $1,700.
>
See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137900#137900
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I said just the corvair FWF engine conversion was around 8,800 not counting
the carb, airbox, or cowling. I said nothing about airframe. The avionics I
use cost around 6,000 and as I said before I used a kit not scratch built but
if you have never built an aircraft you will be surprised how the little
things add up. like flap motors, trim servos, wheels, brake's hell a canopy is
600.00 + shipping ... If you are saying you can build just the airframe for
5,000 minus the expensive stuff I might agree with you but I still say that a
well built 601 xl with a good reliable corvair conversion can't be done for
under 25,000 If you do it great but you couldn't do it if you put in standard
instruments and the proper parts for the engine.
In a message dated 10/3/2007 2:59:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
Not to drag on, but just adding up what you have listed here, by your own
account, looks more like 9,000 + 8,800 for fuselage and engine. Where's the
extra $17,200? If you're not going ape with avionics, even by your own admission
you should be under $20,000.
Even so, I said $5,000 - $6,000 for fuselage, $10,000 total, that's a
possibility for a bare bones plane, depending on how much of the engine I do
myself, and I will do a lot.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Looking at the list, I'd have to say I'll be making at least 50% of the stuff
in lines 4 - 19.
Most of the line items I would be interested in would be the internal engine parts.
Still, I don't see heads listed on there, nor would I expect them to be.
That being the case, why replace the jugs but not the heads. If anything it would
be the other way around. If the heads are ok, I don't see any reason the jugs
would need to be replaced. Hone them lightly, caliper them, if they look ok
no need to spend another $350.
Gasket set, $199? I just found a complete gasket set for $58.
I'm not making this up: Nitrated street racing crank (should be good for a plane
huh) $209. Brand new. No, it's not Clarks Corvair.
SCAT CHEVY CAST CRANKSHAFTS
High-quality cast-iron crankshaft designed to replace stock crankshaft on mildly
built street engines. Crankshaft is nitride hardened for superior wear resistance.
FITS 1967 Chevrolet Corvair
Review this product
Our Low Price: $209.99
Not trying to bust your stones, I'm just saying your numbers may be off. So we'll
halves it, you may or may not have overpaid for some stuff and I may or may
not have to replace more things than I would like to.
do not archive
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
> I think his #'s are way off if you are wanting to scratch build a nice safe
aircraft.... The spread sheet attached is real world #'s with the part numbers
of a plane I did a builder assist on. It has aluminum brake and fuel lines and
the spread sheet includes all the fittings for them also. It doesn't include
the aluminum for scratch building as I used a kit. But I have been kicking
around the idea of scratch building one and the best I can figure it will cost
around 25,000.
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/3/2007 10:41:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz@nbme.org
writes:
>
> > Building from scratch is pretty cheap. Figure $5,000 in materials, maybe
a little more. Corvair with conversion, another $2,000. Basic instruments,
$2,500 - $3,000. If it takes you 4 years that's $2,500/yr, or about $200/month.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137905#137905
Message 31
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| Subject: | Zenith building expense |
Hello All:
I recommend scrap building as the way to build for nearly free (except the
engine). But it will be a long while before you fly. So in the meantime,
start or join a flying club like ours and be a active pilot the entire time
you build.
http://www.eaa163.com/club/index.htm
We currently have four memberships available.
Buy in at $1000.00
Yearly dues $200.00
Fly at $45.00/wet tach time (we have no hobbs).
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
You should really buy WW's conversion manual before you waste your money. We
do use the heads that come off the engine but they need new guides put in the
and anything less than what falcon does IMO shouldn't be in airplanes. The
crank will need to be tapped for the safety shaft and nitrated so the cost for
all the machine work is around 300.00 so whichever crank you use it will
cost you the same because the 209 crank will need to be tapped unless you are
doing that yourself. Look I build aircraft that anyone would feel safe in I
don't cut corners and I don't risk lives to save a buck so build yours how you
want but please do your homework first. This is my last post on this
subject
In a message dated 10/3/2007 3:28:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
Most of the line items I would be interested in would be the internal engine
parts. Still, I don't see heads listed on there, nor would I expect them to
be. That being the case, why replace the jugs but not the heads. If anything
it would be the other way around. If the heads are ok, I don't see any reason
the jugs would need to be replaced. Hone them lightly, caliper them, if they
look ok no need to spend another $350
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
Patrick,
Although it is not a good viewpoint, here is a picture of mine. I have about 3-4mm
of trailing edge difference when the aileron and flap are lined up. The
aileron is the one that is a little short. In order to preserve the aileron rivet
line edge distance I left it that way and pressed on.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done, engine next.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137908#137908
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwing_462.jpg
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I guess, you can get a really long string, and some soup cans for cheap
and then you'll have a communication device as well. :) In fact you can
do this for an intercom as well.
I think mid-thirties is a reasonable minimum number for a builder to
spend.
I put an injected Continental in my Kitfox, and filled the panel with stuff
by King and Garmin, I spent mid-sixties on it. I expect I will invest a
similar amount in my 801 when it is done. I could have built the plane
with a lot less, but I would have a lot less plane as well.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137915#137915
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| Subject: | weight and Balance |
fellow builders,
the day is getting close! I did my weight and Bal. and the plane came in at 767
empty weight with a usefull load of 553lbs. the CG is at 344, not bad. Where
is every one coming in on the Wand B?
Juan
Message 36
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| Subject: | weight and Balance |
fellow builders,
the day is getting close! I did my weight and Bal. and the plane came in at 767
empty weight with a usefull load of 553lbs. the CG is at 344, not bad. Where
is every one coming in on the Wand B?
Juan
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Hi Randy,
What a great idea. It sounds like a wonderful excuse for me to go to
Las Vegas and play poker along with flying the club airplane.
I suppose you want me to have a medical certificate to fly the 172,
though. Oh well, I guess I'll just finish my XL and fly it as a
broken old man with Sport Pilot privileges. With any luck it will be
ready to go in 6 months or so.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 01:05 PM 10/3/2007, you wrote:
>
>Hello All:
>
>I recommend scrap building as the way to build for nearly free (except the
>engine). But it will be a long while before you fly. So in the meantime,
>start or join a flying club like ours and be a active pilot the entire time
>you build.
>
>http://www.eaa163.com/club/index.htm
>
>We currently have four memberships available.
>
>Buy in at $1000.00
>Yearly dues $200.00
>Fly at $45.00/wet tach time (we have no hobbs).
>
>Regards,
>
>Randy, Las Vegas
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
dave that llooks great.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: DaveG601XL <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>Sent: Oct 3, 2007 4:14 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...?
>
>
>Patrick,
>
>Although it is not a good viewpoint, here is a picture of mine. I have about
3-4mm of trailing edge difference when the aileron and flap are lined up. The
aileron is the one that is a little short. In order to preserve the aileron
rivet line edge distance I left it that way and pressed on.
>
>Good luck,
>
>--------
>David Gallagher
>601 XL, tail and wings completed,
>fueslage almost done, engine next.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137908#137908
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwing_462.jpg
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
All-
I agree absolutely with the other Bill. You can easily make your
own Corvair parts if you have a Bridgeport and lathe at your disposal.
When I was growing up, I had access to a full machine shop two steps out
of the living room door. Now I don't. I could probably build an
AirCorvair for less than $2K then, but that was then.
Now I'm at 5K+ and counting. Feces occurs.
The point I'm trying to make is this. The degree of
"Scratchbuilding" you can pull off is dependent on the tools you have
available to use. Some tools, such as "Daves Brake" will require little
investment yet save you thousands. Investing in a full machine shop is
another story. If you already have access, I agree, you can do it.
Do not archive.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: William Dominguez
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense
If you made all of the parts yourself then you can get it around
3,000. But if you buy all the parts from Clarks, WW and get your heads
done by Falcon and you crank by Nitron, then you are talking about 6K to
7K. Excluding FWF.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
I've rebuilt a lot of engines in my day. I don't think it'll be much
more than that. Maybe $3,000. I'm certainly not going to skimp on
safety. If I can rebuild a 4 cylinder outboard engine or a car engine
for $500, I can't imagine a Corvair being that much more, they're just
parts and they're readily available. About the only difference is some
of the specialty items on it.
[quote="bill_dom(at)yahoo.com"]This topic is baaack!
Sorry list, but some of us including myself just can get enough of
this topic. So here I go.
Jeff, no matter how much someone scrounge, We all agree that putting
a Lyco, Continental, Jabiru or Rotax and spend less than 30K is close to
impossible, even for non average builder. The < 30K crowd are those who
are going for auto conversions, specially the Corvair.
However, if you consider an auto conversion to be risky, unsafe,
only reserved for miracle builders or not having a real airplane, then
that's another big topic where you will find a lot of experienced
builders disagreeing.
Some builders consider an auto conversion a bad way to loose one's
marbles, in the same way some pilots consider flying a homebuilt plane a
bad way to loose one's marbles. I knew one pilot with over 2,000 flight
hours who is instrument, multi engine certified and Mensa member, who
consider flying a homebuilt plane a crazy idea. When I told him that
some builders have flown the Zodiac with Harley Davidson engine he
rolled up his eyes so much that he saw his brain.
Andy, 2,000 for a converted Corvair is way low.
Now, I'll just run for cover.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
Get real! If you want to build a real plane, that is not really
"experimental", then you're talking Lycoming, Continental,
Rotax, Jabiru, etc. You're also going to spend money on other stuff.
If you scrounge, and convert a car engine, etc. you can be one of
the
miracle builders. But for the average guy, it's not gonna happen.
PLus
it shouldn't. Do your families a favor, and don't hobby yourself
into
becoming a statistic. Flying is
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online
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| Subject: | Re: weight and Balance |
Talking about W&B, is there anyone with a completed W&B for a 601XL, that
they could send me. I want to do some practicing, but have no ideas on the
figures. Send anything you have to _LHusky@aol.com_ (mailto:LHusky@aol.com)
Thanks,
Larry Husky
601XL/Corvair
Madras, Oregon
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
At 15:43 02-10-07, you wrote:
>
>[Rolling Eyes] I am a new owner of a Zodiac 601 HDS The A/C has a
>TTEA of 150 Hrs.. The engine is a Rotax 912 UL # 4401716..I am used
>to Lyconing engines but Rotax is new to me. Lately I have noticed
>that the oil pressure is higher than what is specified in
>the manual. It is supposed to be 22-72 psi , when I am turning
>about 5000 rpm it fluctuate over 80psi. I can't find any thing about
>it in the trouble shooting about high oil pressure..Is there any body out
Another possible issue regarding oil pressure changes:
I found that changing to an actual Rotax oil filter, from one that is
simply compatible, seems to have increased the oil pressure somewhat.
Have others found this to be correct?
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON
Message 42
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| Subject: | weight and Balance |
Gary Ray's has numbers filled in:
http://www.ch601.org/resources/W
<http://www.ch601.org/resources/W&B/ZodiacXLWBFinal.xls>
&B/ZodiacXLWBFinal.xls
-- Craig
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| Subject: | About True Track Autopilot |
Hi Guys,
Does anyone here have a pictures showing the True Track Autopilot
instalation which goes on Zodiac XL 601?
If so, please send it to me lenabeto@uol.com.br
Rgds,
Roberto Brito.
Zodiac XL Jab 3300,
Enigma,
Woodcomp 3300 Prop
Brazil.
Message 44
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| Subject: | About True Track Autopilot |
Did you look at the autopilot servo pictures in the photo share?
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/craig@craigandjean.com.02.11.2006
-- Craig
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
> What a great idea. It sounds like a wonderful excuse for me to go to Las
> Vegas and play poker along with flying the club airplane.
Hard to say which is the bigger gamble!
>
> I suppose you want me to have a medical certificate to fly the 172,
A lot of pilots sell their airplanes because they loose their medical. My
Pal Bob says that's the time to buy your own airplane, because nobody will
rent to you anymore!
Randy, Las Vegas do not archive
Message 46
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| Subject: | Sorry Guys it is another long winded response |
Jeff, would this be the wrong time to mention that my company
demonstrator 601XL is a plans built with a Corvair engine? Not to
mention that total cost is below $15,000 if you don't count my panel of
which I went overboard. In addition, you added Jabiru to the aircraft
motors, this is not a certified Aircraft motor and is mostly constructed
using automotive parts. I have a few friends that have a 601 even
cheaper, one gent has a standard panel 601XL ready for flight,( waiting
for final inspection) he plans built it in a year and is under $12,000
without paint but everything else.
Safety is construction methods and materials, not brand names! Although
most plans built aircraft are not as nice as a kit built plane, I have
seen some plans built planes I would be very happy to fly and some kit
built that scarred me, also I have seen a few that won Grand Champion at
the airshows.
Jeff, you are inflicting your point of view, this comes from the path
you have traveled over your life. IT is sound advice for those who have
traveled similar routes. Nevertheless, it is not an opinion that is
relevant to others who walked the line of life enjoying the creation of
projects. Building a plane from plans is not hard; 10 years ago, Zenair
only sold kits that were hand created, to say, each and every part was
made in the plans builder fashion. THEREFORE, if a builder is willing to
take the time to learn the proper methods, there is no reason in this
world why he cannot build a plane just as airworthy as yours.
MOREOVER, if plans=92 building was such a hard and unachievable goal
then
why would Zenith support such a feature? Why would I have instructed a
workshop, in the Zenith facility during the open house?
Hosted by Mark of HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com" \nCan-Zac
Aviation (Zenith Aircraft's Canadian representative), this workshop
covered the skills, materials, tools and commitment required to
accomplish the feat of plans-building your own aircraft, whether the
HYPERLINK "http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7drawings.html"STOL CH 701
or HYPERLINK "http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/drawings.html"Zodiac
XL, for less than $10,000 (not counting the engine). Topics included:
Reading and understanding the drawings and manuals, making rib form
blocks, cutting the sheet metal rib blanks, deburring and polishing
techniques, rib forming, tips, tricks and techniques, and more.
>From the Zenith website, written by the President of Zenith. Being
generous with a FWF of $5,000 for a Corvair installation and you have a
plane for under $15,000.
Jeff, I in no way wish to insult you, Everything you have stated in the
last few letters is true as it applies to yourself and other like minded
people. I believe that you truly cannot see that it is possible for
others to accomplish this feat; I also believe that you have certain
beliefs in your decisions that would not allow you to accomplish this
goal. However, others do not share your thought process, nor should they
if it is not appropriate.
In closing, installing a Jabiru engine in my 601XL would have been my
first choice, along with the FWF. It really is a simple installation and
very nice engine. Nevertheless, I am not a rich man, so when I weighed
the options I installed the Corvair and have a safe plane, with a proven
track record design.
Yes Jeff, I do consider my 601XL a =93real=94 plane. Also I consider
myself
an average builder when I began it, plus my first plane I built from
plans I considered myself a less then average builder, but very eager to
learn as much as I could.
I have said this before to many, if you are building to own and fly a
brand new plane with superior performance over the old dilapidated
rental fleets out there, buy a QBK kit! IF you are building to save a
few dollars but get a flying plane then purchase a kit. IF your building
to live an adventure of building a plane from a flat sheet and the
flying at the end is just a new bonus then consider a plans built, it is
a hell of an adventure.
As for the NSI and dead stick landings, yup I can see that. I have
always held the belief that if you take any motor designed at 70hp then
hop It up to 105hp your in for a world of headaches. I like the Subaru
engines, I have 5 in the shop, but they are a harder conversion and not
for the average guy like the Corvair is. In addition, the average
Corvair is outputting the hp is was designed for. Nevertheless, each of
us must make that decision based on their own investigations, NO-ONE can
tell us what to do in our own planes, but it is always good to hear the
opinions, BOTH sides of the coin and pick which truths apply to our own
personal capabilities and situations.
As for Renting, Lets see my last rental, C-150 walk around. All
fiberglass parts cracked. Duct tape holding things on, oil leaks from
FWF, drips of fuel from wing tank bleeders. Paint in shameful faded
condition. Windshield and side windows glazed, fuel gauges inaccurate,
one non-functional, seats ripped and hard to move, carpet stank !
GOD I wish I only found this on one plane but it is all to typical of
the rental fleet out there. I show my list of real problems I would NOT
accept in my own plane and get the response that it has just had a fresh
annual a month or two ago and is all good till next year. IT may fly but
I feel far safer behind the plane I built and did not have to use duct
tape to keep parts on.
Moreover, don=92t forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty
woman
up for her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully
someone has bragged over this, I have been married for over 20 years and
forfeited this right.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n85ae
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:25 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense
Get real! If you want to build a real plane, that is not really
"experimental", then you're talking Lycoming, Continental,
Rotax, Jabiru, etc. You're also going to spend money on other stuff.
If you scrounge, and convert a car engine, etc. you can be one of the
miracle builders. But for the average guy, it's not gonna happen. PLus
it shouldn't. Do your families a favor, and don't hobby yourself into
becoming a statistic. Flying is dangerous enough.
Mid-Thirties is the bottom end - Realistically.
Yes, I've seen stuff that looks like it was powered by Briggs and
Stratton
with a carved 2x4 for a prop, I've also had the pleasure of watching
a hangar neighbor continuously wrenching on his NSI turbo Subaru,
which he enjoyed immensely since he was a tinkerer. Yep 12 hours of
wrenching for every hour of flight, not to mention the occasional dead
stick landing ....
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137844#137844
10/2/2007 6:43 PM
Message 47
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| Subject: | Stratus Subaru seasonal mixture |
Hi guys,
Still in test mode, (mentally,) I thought it best to confess my latest
flub so others might learn or gain insight.
September 29 I was at the airport at 7:00 a.m. Larry Dorgan (a friend
and 701 Builder) arrived shortly after and we took off toward Burlington
into a decent headwind. A thin overcast with sunshine provided a soft
light patchwork of brown and green fields and we had smooth 75-degree
air. At 2500 feet and 20 minutes out, water and oil temps crept to my
EIS safe set points 220-coolant and 250-oil. We got a warning light. I
let off 4900 rpm and temps subsided temporarily. The heat muff was
moving cool air, so that wasnt the problem. We were both disappointed,
but decided to safely return to MLI and forego this years Open House at
Zenith. At home, I re-visited the Bing Manual and realized Id noted
178 and 2.78 jets are for summer. I was still flying with the leaner
176 and 2.76 winter jets. These are intended for a winter-air-soaked
engine that could tolerate a warmer mixture. My summer jets should
have been 178 and 2.78 for a richer mixture to reduce engine heat so
coolant and oil can do their part. After lunch, I drove back to the
airport and re-jetted the Bings to 178 and 2.78. Id mixed assumptions
about thin hot air versus thick cold air, which are less a concern. The
percentage of engine heat output reduced by a richer mixture in summer
is important. EGTS reduced from 1425 by 50 degrees should allow coolant
and oil temps go lower by similar numbers. The afternoon wind was
blowing pretty hard so confirmation of this would be left to the next
good day.
This good day, I took flying gear to the hangar to check numbers for the
178 and 2.78 jets. I took off from 27, climbed to 4000 ft and maintained
4900 rpm for 15 minutes. This was repeated at 2500 feet. Coolant
temperatures never went above 197-deg F, Oil remained at 230-deg F, CHTs
read 203-deg F and EGTs stayed under 1380. After the test flight, I
landed on 27, taxied back satisfied and reassured by the results. Its
true that correct seasonal mixture per one jet size can have everything
to do with cooling the Subaru engine. In my haste to be ready for Open
Hangar Day, I missed the symptoms of an engine that had been running
near safe EIS set points most of the summer. Nothing harmed, but its a
point that should be made and will have to be remembered for the next
trip. We probably missed a good Saturday too.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
This sounds like good advice but I have a problem send money to a PO Box and
not being able to reach a person. Last week I was able to spend some time in
Daytona Beach, Fla. and thought this would be a great time to pickup the
manual from WW. Problem was I thought the hangar was outside Dayton mapquest
could not find the address. Tried calling two number, one was disconnected and
the other one told me to call another number. When I called it a machine told
me to leave a message and then disconnected me. So I sent an e-mail but still
have not heard from anyone. No sure I will buy from anyone I can not talk to!
There I got it off my chest. SORRY Jerry of Ga
"You should really buy WW's conversion manual before you waste your money."
Message 49
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| Subject: | Stratus Subaru seasonal mixture |
Sorry to say Larry , Ya Missed a Great time. Oh well there is always the
Sun-N-Fun BBQ
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LarryMcFarland
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 8:41 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Stratus Subaru seasonal mixture
<larry@macsmachine.com>
Hi guys,
Still in test mode, (mentally,) I thought it best to confess my latest
flub so others might learn or gain insight.
September 29 I was at the airport at 7:00 a.m. Larry Dorgan (a friend
and 701 Builder) arrived shortly after and we took off toward Burlington
into a decent headwind. A thin overcast with sunshine provided a soft
light patchwork of brown and green fields and we had smooth 75-degree
air. At 2500 feet and 20 minutes out, water and oil temps crept to my
EIS safe set points 220-coolant and 250-oil. We got a warning light. I
let off 4900 rpm and temps subsided temporarily. The heat muff was
moving cool air, so that wasnt the problem. We were both disappointed,
but decided to safely return to MLI and forego this years Open House at
Zenith. At home, I re-visited the Bing Manual and realized Id noted
178 and 2.78 jets are for summer. I was still flying with the leaner
176 and 2.76 winter jets. These are intended for a winter-air-soaked
engine that could tolerate a warmer mixture. My summer jets should
have been 178 and 2.78 for a richer mixture to reduce engine heat so
coolant and oil can do their part. After lunch, I drove back to the
airport and re-jetted the Bings to 178 and 2.78. Id mixed assumptions
about thin hot air versus thick cold air, which are less a concern. The
percentage of engine heat output reduced by a richer mixture in summer
is important. EGTS reduced from 1425 by 50 degrees should allow coolant
and oil temps go lower by similar numbers. The afternoon wind was
blowing pretty hard so confirmation of this would be left to the next
good day.
This good day, I took flying gear to the hangar to check numbers for the
178 and 2.78 jets. I took off from 27, climbed to 4000 ft and maintained
4900 rpm for 15 minutes. This was repeated at 2500 feet. Coolant
temperatures never went above 197-deg F, Oil remained at 230-deg F, CHTs
read 203-deg F and EGTs stayed under 1380. After the test flight, I
landed on 27, taxied back satisfied and reassured by the results. Its
true that correct seasonal mixture per one jet size can have everything
to do with cooling the Subaru engine. In my haste to be ready for Open
Hangar Day, I missed the symptoms of an engine that had been running
near safe EIS set points most of the summer. Nothing harmed, but its a
point that should be made and will have to be remembered for the next
trip. We probably missed a good Saturday too.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
10/2/2007 6:43 PM
10/2/2007 6:43 PM
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Jeyoung, you apparently had some very old contact info for WW. Just go
to http://flycorvair.com/ for all current information.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeyoung65@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense
This sounds like good advice but I have a problem send money to a PO
Box and not being able to reach a person. Last week I was able to spend
some time in Daytona Beach, Fla. and thought this would be a great time
to pickup the manual from WW. Problem was I thought the hangar was
outside Dayton mapquest could not find the address. Tried calling two
number, one was disconnected and the other one told me to call another
number. When I called it a machine told me to leave a message and then
disconnected me. So I sent an e-mail but still have not heard from
anyone. No sure I will buy from anyone I can not talk to! There I got it
off my chest. SORRY Jerry of Ga
"You should really buy WW's conversion manual before you waste your
money."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response |
8)
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137973#137973
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
When we first flew our 601HD with R912S, the oil pressure was LOW. It
turned out to be the pressure gauge or sender, I don't know which. It
reads 2/3 of the correct value over a considerable range (20-40 psi).
This was determined by putting a second known accurate pressure gauge
simultaneously in the oil line. My point is, don't assume your gauge
reading is correct! There may be nothing wrong with the oil pressure.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
That is where I got the addresses and phone number. Jerry of Ga
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| Subject: | Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response |
Mark,
Well said! My number are coming in around 14-15K too but hey, I'm not
going to argue about it.
Kevin R.
601XL/Corvair
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response |
Hi Mark,
I don't want to get into the scratch builder pricing discussion, but
I would like to comment on one little part of your message.
At 05:37 PM 10/3/2007, you wrote:
>IF you are building to save a few dollars but get a flying plane
>then purchase a kit.
I think there are nearly as many reasons people build an airplane as
there are people doing it. I am not really trying to get a plane for
a discount and get flying quickly. Indeed, I am not sure I will
enjoy flying at all. I have been an inactive pilot for around 20
years, and while I always was a good pilot I never really enjoyed it
a whole bunch. Flying has always been more of a challenge for me
than an act of pleasure. I am hoping the lack of scheduling issues
flying rentals will make flying my own plane more enjoyable.
I mostly wanted to build a plane because I wanted something
"Worthwhile" to build. After retiring as an engineer and designer of
computers for mass production, I found life to be a bit boring. I
have always enjoyed building stuff and it never really mattered what
kind of stuff it was. The new Sport Pilot and LSA rules led me down
the garden path to building an airplane.
For me the kit approach was the clear choice. I have sufficient
funds for any approach to flying light airplanes. The kit
manufacturer allows me to build my own plane without doing the
administrative work of finding all the materials. They also perform
many of the "Difficult" tasks that require special equipment or
skills. These include things like welding and bending 12 foot long
pieces of metal. I am happy to pay Zenith for these services. For
me the really important saving offered by the kit is not the saving
of money but the saving of time and effort doing stuff I don't really
like doing.
I think it is good for us to have these discussions of builder
motives and costs. Alas, the temptation we all seem to have is to
think our own analysis is the only one that really counts and should
be applied to all other builders. I think the truth is each builder
and each airplane built is unique. We can all try to help each other
complete our projects even if we can't agree on the reasons and
issues each of us must consider.
Paul
XL fuselage
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
The "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I
don't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to
clockwise-rotating propeller torque. Slightly incorrect offset angle of
the engine mount might be another reason. Non-skid wing root material
won't be a contributor. In other words, I can't give you a definitive
answer! Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a
counter-clockwise-rotating prop? It would be fun to know. I have never
heard of a case of heavy right wing. We put our trim tab about half way
out along the aileron; the precise distance is not critical. Further out
from the fuselage will have more effect. It is absolutely NOT necessary
to go to the trouble of making two trim tabs, one for each wing; you have
better uses for your time!
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Hopefully I can do all that on my lather and milling machine.
[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]You should really buy WW's conversion manual before
you waste your money. We do use the heads that come off the engine but they
need new guides put in the and anything less than what falcon does IMO shouldn't
be in airplanes. The crank will need to be tapped for the safety shaft
and nitrated so the cost for all the machine work is around 300.00 so whichever
crank you use it will cost you the same because the 209 crank will need to
be tapped unless you are doing that yourself. Look I build aircraft that anyone
would feel safe in I don't cut corners and I don't risk lives to save a
buck so build yours how you want but please do your homework first. This is
my last post on this subject
In a message dated 10/3/2007 3:28:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz@nbme.org
writes:
> Most of the line items I would be interested in would be the internal engine
parts. Still, I don't see heads listed on there, nor would I expect them
to be. That being the case, why replace the jugs but not the heads. If anything
it would be the other way around. If the heads are ok, I don't see any
reason the jugs would need to be replaced. Hone them lightly, caliper them,
if they look ok no need to spend another $350
See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137981#137981
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I agree, the fraction of the money is better spent on tools.
[quote="naumuk(at)alltel.net"]All-
I agree absolutely with the other Bill. You can easily make your own Corvair
parts if you have a Bridgeport and lathe at your disposal. When I was growing
up, I had access to a full machine shop two steps out of the living room
door. Now I don't. I could probably build an AirCorvair for less than $2K then,
but that was then.
Now I'm at 5K+ and counting. Feces occurs.
The point I'm trying to make is this. The degree of "Scratchbuilding" you
can pull off is dependent on the tools you have available to use. Some tools,
such as "Daves Brake" will require little investment yet save you thousands.
Investing in a full machine shop is another story. If you already have access,
I agree, you can do it.
Do not archive.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
> ---
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137982#137982
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL high oil pressure |
To all who responded to my problem with the high oil pressure, thank you I will
check each one out till I find the the right fix and of course keep you all
informed..the weather is changing in the NW and I will have to check this out
in between rain showers...Ed :
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Kit vs plans and costs. |
Alas, the temptation we all seem to have is to
think our own analysis is the only one that really counts and should
be applied to all other builders. I think the truth is each builder
and each airplane built is unique. We can all try to help each other
complete our projects even if we can't agree on the reasons and
issues each of us must consider.
Paul
XL fuselage
Very eloquently put Paul, I agree fully, in my last post I tried to make
the same point, but it ended up a little long winded, and still missed
the point with the finesse your one paragraph has.
Mark
Do not archive
10/2/2007 6:43 PM
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
> Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a counter-clockwise-rotating
prop? It would be fun to know.
Corvairs spin the "other" way.
-- Craig
Message 62
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
Thanks everyone.
Initially I'd marked off a line 10mm back from the "leading edge" of the aileron
skin that forms the hinge, and set that up as the rivet centerline.
But it just didn't look right...
It occurred to me that maybe there was some "extra" on the top aileron skin, and
that maybe I shouldn't be using it as a reference to measure from.
So I went back to the drawings and added up some measurements and came up with
a distance of 45mm between the front of the aileron "spar" (not sure what it's
really called but I think you know what I mean) and the rear channel of the wing.
I set up for that distance, and things looked a lot better.
So I went with that. Looks good.
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137994#137994
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
I was concerned with this "heavy left wing phenomena" a couple of years
ago when I did my phase one flight testing. I have an HDS with electric
aileron and elevator trim. I noticed that with both wing tanks full, my
trim tab indicated that I had a "heavy left wing". I landed and moved
to the right seat, and took off, you guessed it, I now had a "heavy
right wing". I find that I have to adjust aileron trim, or switch fuel
tanks, about every 10 minutes to maintain "hands off trim", solo or
with passenger. This topic has been beat to death in the past. Do not
archive.
Leo Gates
N601Z, CH601HDS TDO, Rotax 912UL
John M. Goodings wrote:
>
> The "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I
> don't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to
> clockwise-rotating propeller torque.
>
Message 64
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| Subject: | Re: avex rivet question clarification |
In a message dated 9/29/2007 11:25:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gboothe5@comcast.net writes:
Gary, I used CherryMax rivets and did not try to "done" the head.
I have found no one who has much on the pop rivet inspection. Have fun
building. Jerry
Message 65
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| Subject: | Re: About True Track Autopilot |
TruTrak website has drawings for the CH601XL at http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/ZodiacPitchandRoll.pdf
I'm very happy with my DigiFlight IIVSGV.
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 851hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138009#138009
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
------- Original Message -------
>From : Afterfxllc@aol.com[mailto:Afterfxllc@aol.com]
Sent : 10/3/2007 1:10:29 PM
To : zenith-list@matronics.com
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense
SNIP
This is my last post on this subject
THANK GOD!!!
Message 67
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
If I understand a trim tab on an aileron when you have a heavy or low left wing
you put a tab on the left and bend it up which moves the aileron down and raises
the wing.
If this is correct would it make a difference where or how far out on the aileron
it was mounted?
Robert Loer
>------- Original Message -------
>From : John M. Goodings[mailto:goodings@yorku.ca]
>Sent : 10/3/2007 7:17:37 PM
>To : zenith-list@matronics.com
>Cc :
>Subject : RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7
>
The "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I
don't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to
clockwise-rotating propeller torque. Slightly incorrect offset angle of
the engine mount might be another reason. Non-skid wing root material
won't be a contributor. In other words, I can't give you a definitive
answer! Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a
counter-clockwise-rotating prop? It would be fun to know. I have never
heard of a case of heavy right wing. We put our trim tab about half way
out along the aileron; the precise distance is not critical. Further out
from the fuselage will have more effect. It is absolutely NOT necessary
to go to the trouble of making two trim tabs, one for each wing; you have
better uses for your time!
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
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