Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:21 AM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (David Downey)
2. 04:53 AM - Re: Heavy left wing7 (steveadams)
3. 06:37 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (Gig Giacona)
4. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (Phil Maxson)
5. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
6. 09:40 AM - Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response (ashontz)
7. 09:41 AM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (Gary Ray)
8. 09:47 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
9. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing XL (japhillipsga@aol.com)
10. 10:24 AM - Aileron Trim Tabs - Heavy Wing ()
11. 10:36 AM - Re: Zenith-List; Zenith building expense ()
12. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (David Downey)
13. 11:15 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
14. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (David Downey)
15. 12:24 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
16. 12:33 PM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz)
17. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
18. 01:23 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (David Downey)
19. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (David Downey)
20. 02:05 PM - Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response (n85ae)
21. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
22. 03:30 PM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (Graeme)
23. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (Bill Naumuk)
24. 04:04 PM - Re: Kit vs plans and costs. (Bill Naumuk)
25. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (David Downey)
26. 04:39 PM - Re: Zenith building expense (Dave Thompson)
27. 04:45 PM - Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response (ashontz)
28. 04:52 PM - Canopy Crack....... (CHETKRU@aol.com)
29. 04:58 PM - Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded responseZenith building expense (Dave Thompson)
30. 05:36 PM - Re: Zenith building expense (Robin Bellach)
31. 05:43 PM - Cast or forged? (GeorgeM)
32. 06:21 PM - Re: Canopy Crack....... (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
33. 07:15 PM - heavy left wing/roll to left (Southern Reflections)
34. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Bob Unternaehrer)
35. 08:13 PM - Re: Canopy Crack....... (Terry Fogelson)
36. 10:25 PM - Re: Canopy Crack....... (xl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
the closer to the center of area that any force is applied the lower the ex
traneous forces the structure has to manage. In this case it is torsion on
the aileron - and in this case the aileron is actuated from the end rib so
it probably does not matter at all because the tab loads are constant and t
he control loads are reversing.=0A=0AIn the case of a wing leveling tab it
does matter: the tab should favor high aspect ratio and be located as far o
utboard as possible to result in the lowest drag for any applied correction
.=0A=0AOh wait a minute! This is real aircraft engineering data, applied to
an=0Aairplane that may be around for much longer than the builder lives,
=0Awhere durability and fatigue resistance may actually be a concern...neve
r mind.=0A=0Ado not archive=0A =0ADave Downey=0A Harleysville (SE) PA=0A
100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Robert Loer <
rloer@aceweb.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October
4, 2007 1:28:04 AM=0ASubject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7=0A=0A
=0AIf I understand a trim tab on an aileron when you have a heavy or low le
ft wing you put a tab on the left and bend it up which moves the aileron do
wn and raises the wing.=0A=0AIf this is correct would it make a difference
where or how far out on the aileron it was mounted?=0A=0ARobert Loer=0A=0A
=0A>------- Original Message -------=0A>From : John M. Goodings[mailto:good
ings@yorku.ca]=0A>Sent : 10/3/2007 7:17:37 PM=0A>To : zenith-list@matronics
.com=0A>Cc : =0A>Subject : RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7=0A>=0A>-->
Zenith-List message posted by: "John M. Goodings" <goodings@yorku.ca>=0A
=0AThe "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I
=0Adon't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to=0Aclockwi
se-rotating propeller torque. Slightly incorrect offset angle of=0Athe engi
==========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A______________
______________________________________________________________________=0APi
npoint customers who are looking for what you sell. =0Ahttp://searchmarketi
ng.yahoo.com/
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
I don't know about the 601, but the 640 and CH2000 drawings specify an aileron
trim tab to be placed on the bottom inboard surface of the aileron, effectively
pushing that aileron up. This makes sense to me as you are applying the trim
tab force closest to the end rib actuator, thus there is less of a twisting force
applied.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138035#138035
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
>From the top of the main page at flycorvair.com.
William Wynne
The Corvair Authority
5000-18 HWY 17 #247
Orange Park, FL 32003
This is his home address and he is no longer in the Edgewater FL hanger. That has been turned over to Gus. FOr details visit: http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com wrote:
> That is where I got the addresses and phone number. Jerry of Ga
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138053#138053
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
My Corvair spins the "wrong way", and I have the slight left wing heavy thi
ng, so it's not prop-wash. I usually just fill the right tank only or burn
fuel from the left tank first. I find leaning my knee on the stick helps.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
> From: craig@craigandjean.com> To: zenith-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE:
Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:44:01 -0600> >
> > Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a counter-clockwise-rotat
ing> prop? It would be fun to know.> > Corvairs spin the "other" way.> > --
Craig
_________________________________________________________________
!
ilnews
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
In a message dated 10/4/2007 9:38:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wr.giacona@suddenlink.net writes:
http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html
Thanks Gig for the information. It filled in a lot of blank areas. Jerry of
Ga
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response |
Here here. Sounds good to me. :)
do not archive
zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote:
> ?
> Jeff, would this be the wrong time to mention that my company demonstrator 601XL
is a plans built with a Corvair engine? Not to mention that total cost is
below $15,000 if you don't count my panel of which I went overboard. In addition,
you added Jabiru to the aircraft motors, this is not a certified Aircraft
motor and is mostly constructed using automotive parts. I have a few friends that
have a 601 even cheaper, one gent has a standard panel 601XL ready for flight,(
waiting for final inspection) he plans built it in a year and is under $12,000
without paint but everything else.
>
> Safety is construction methods and materials, not brand names! Although most
plans built aircraft are not as nice as a kit built plane, I have seen some plans
built planes I would be very happy to fly and some kit built that scarred
me, also I have seen a few that won Grand Champion at the airshows.
>
> Jeff, you are inflicting your point of view, this comes from the path you have
traveled over your life. IT is sound advice for those who have traveled similar
routes. Nevertheless, it is not an opinion that is relevant to others who
walked the line of life enjoying the creation of projects. Building a plane from
plans is not hard; 10 years ago, Zenair only sold kits that were hand created,
to say, each and every part was made in the plans builder fashion. THEREFORE,
if a builder is willing to take the time to learn the proper methods, there
is no reason in this world why he cannot build a plane just as airworthy as
yours.
> [img]cid:image001.jpg@01C805FD.347C1130[/img]
>
>
> MOREOVER, if plans? building was such a hard and unachievable goal then why would
Zenith support such a feature? Why would I have instructed a workshop, in
the Zenith facility during the open house?
> ?
>
> Hosted by Mark of Can-Zac Aviation (http://www.can-zacaviation.com) (Zenith Aircraft's Canadian representative), this workshop covered the skills, materials, tools and commitment required to accomplish the feat of plans-building your own aircraft, whether the STOL CH 701 (http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7drawings.html) or Zodiac XL (http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/drawings.html), for less than $10,000 (not counting the engine). Topics included: Reading and understanding the drawings and manuals, making rib form blocks, cutting the sheet metal rib blanks, deburring and polishing techniques, rib forming, tips, tricks and techniques, and more.
> From the Zenith website, written by the President of Zenith. Being generous with
a FWF of $5,000 for a Corvair installation and you have a plane for under
$15,000.
> Jeff, I in no way wish to insult you, Everything you have stated in the last
few letters is true as it applies to yourself and other like minded people. I
believe that you truly cannot see that it is possible for others to accomplish
this feat; I also believe that you have certain beliefs in your decisions that
would not allow you to accomplish this goal. However, others do not share your
thought process, nor should they if it is not appropriate.
>
> In closing, installing a Jabiru engine in my 601XL would have been my first choice,
along with the FWF. It really is a simple installation and very nice engine.
Nevertheless, I am not a rich man, so when I weighed the options I installed
the Corvair and have a safe plane, with a proven track record design.
>
> Yes Jeff, I do consider my 601XL a ?real? plane. Also I consider myself an average
builder when I began it, plus my first plane I built from plans I considered
myself a less then average builder, but very eager to learn as much as I
could.
>
> I have said this before to many, if you are building to own and fly a brand new
plane with superior performance over the old dilapidated rental fleets out
there, buy a QBK kit! IF you are building to save a few dollars but get a flying
plane then purchase a kit. IF your building to live an adventure of building
a plane from a flat sheet and the flying at the end is just a new bonus then
consider a plans built, it is a hell of an adventure.
>
> As for the NSI and dead stick landings, yup I can see that. I have always held
the belief that if you take any motor designed at 70hp then hop It up to 105hp
your in for a world of headaches. I like the Subaru engines, I have 5 in the
shop, but they are a harder conversion and not for the average guy like the
Corvair is. In addition, the average Corvair is outputting the hp is was designed
for. Nevertheless, each of us must make that decision based on their own investigations,
NO-ONE can tell us what to do in our own planes, but it is always
good to hear the opinions, BOTH sides of the coin and pick which truths apply
to our own personal capabilities and situations.
>
> As for Renting, Lets see my last rental, C-150 walk around. All fiberglass parts
cracked. Duct tape holding things on, oil leaks from FWF, drips of fuel from
wing tank bleeders. Paint in shameful faded condition. Windshield and side
windows glazed, fuel gauges inaccurate, one non-functional, seats ripped and hard
to move, carpet stank !
>
> GOD I wish I only found this on one plane but it is all to typical of the rental
fleet out there. I show my list of real problems I would NOT accept in my
own plane and get the response that it has just had a fresh annual a month or
two ago and is all good till next year. IT may fly but I feel far safer behind
the plane I built and did not have to use duct tape to keep parts on.
>
> Moreover, don?t forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty woman up for
her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully someone has bragged
over this, I have been married for over 20 years and forfeited this right.
> ?
> Mark Townsend
> Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
> president@can-zacaviation.com
> www.can-zacaviation.com
>
>
> --
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138082#138082
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
John
There is another method to consider shown on
http://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm under the Bungee Trim heading.
To me the advantage would be to bias the system and assist the electric trim
system for single pilot operation.
In my aircraft with me at 218 lbs flying alone with evenly balanced fuel, my
electric trim tab is deployed 1/2 to 3/4 of full travel depending on air
speed. I may install this modification to allow a nearly neutral trim tab
position and use the electric trim for fine the finer adjustments as fuel
burns off.
Gary Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "John M. Goodings" <goodings@yorku.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:17 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7
>
> The "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I
> don't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to
> clockwise-rotating propeller torque. Slightly incorrect offset angle of
> the engine mount might be another reason. Non-skid wing root material
> won't be a contributor. In other words, I can't give you a definitive
> answer! Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a
> counter-clockwise-rotating prop? It would be fun to know. I have never
> heard of a case of heavy right wing. We put our trim tab about half way
> out along the aileron; the precise distance is not critical. Further out
> from the fuselage will have more effect. It is absolutely NOT necessary
> to go to the trouble of making two trim tabs, one for each wing; you have
> better uses for your time!
>
> John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
>
>
> --
8:22 PM
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Yeah, I could have saved even more money. I actually bought some 6061-T6 bar stock
from Yard, took a day off to drive up to north jersey, only to find out that
the same stuff was literally 600 feet down the street at Fastenals. LOL
do not archive
[quote="bill_dom(at)yahoo.com"]Yarde Metals is still cheaper than Aircraft Spruce
and they pack the material very nicely. You will need to purchase 5 to 8 sheet
at a time in order to take advantage of their better pricing.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
Read this topic online
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138087#138087
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing XL |
I can give you the answer for the heavy left wing on the XL. First the left side
of the plane is heavier than the right side from weight and balance. Even empty
the left side is heavier and has more drag. The flap steel bracket and flap
motor is on the left side of the fuselage. The engine motor mount is canted
to the left side to counter P torque adding to the weight shift. The left wing
has the aileron trim and motor and wires making it heaver and dirtier along with
the pitot tubes under the wing. Now add flying in the left side and you add
body weigh on the left side and you have a heavy left wing. Now when I have
flown with a full size fellow in the right seat I have not had to use much or
any aileron trim so I'm guessing the ZAC folks are smart enough to know the plane
pretty much balances when two folks are flying. Remember, the XL is really
light for as big as it is and sensitive to weight shift. When flying alone I
most ofter use the left tank more than the right to b
alance the plane reduce trim dirt and inprove performance as the plane loses weight.?Just
my 2 cents, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300 120 hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: John M. Goodings <goodings@yorku.ca>
Sent: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:17 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7
The "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I
don't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to
clockwise-rotating propeller torque. Slightly incorrect offset angle of
the engine mount might be another reason. Non-skid wing root material
won't be a contributor. In other words, I can't give you a definitive
answer! Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a
counter-clockwise-rotating prop? It would be fun to know. I have never
heard of a case of heavy right wing. We put our trim tab about half way
out along the aileron; the precise distance is not critical. Further out
from the fuselage will have more effect. It is absolutely NOT necessary
to go to the trouble of making two trim tabs, one for each wing; you have
better uses for your time!
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Aileron Trim Tabs - Heavy Wing |
Listers,
REF: Heavy Left Wing Discussion
Somewhere in the dark part of my mind ( nearly 70 years makes it really dark
in there! ) I seem to remember the following for a trim tab installation for
a heavy wing.
Put the tab on the aileron that needs to go UP ( wing down) because the tab
will then be DOWN into the high pressure air stream ( read more effevtive )
and can be either smaller or bent or actuated less, thus doing it's job with
less drag.
I have a 601HD with only one fuel tank ( forward of the instrument panel )
that likes to fly left wing down with just me aboard with the aileron trim
in neutral. I can trim it out with the electric trim tab I have on the right
wing ( trim tab down into the high pressure airstream ).
With two aboard I can run the trim to neutral or nearly neutral, depending
on the weight of my passenger. This tells me that this 601 is sensitive to
left to right weight distribution.
As for wing walk material contributing to this low wing stuff - I don't
think so. I don't have wing walk material on either wing! What I use is a
length of my wifes rubber waffle weave shelving material ( white to match my
white wings ) that I simply lay on the wing. Non slip wet or dry. Nice
pretty painted wing with no peeling wing walk tape!
The only thing that you have to remember to do is to stow the piece of
material before engine start. Otherwise it gets blown away. After two times
of that it is on my checklist brfore engine start to stow it inside the
airplane stupid ( me ) .
Hey folks these are just my thoughts from the dark recesses of and OLD mind.
Take them for what little they are worth.
Go fly - don't slip on the wing!
do not archive
Jim Hoak 601HD - Rotax 912UL - 560 hours.
Message 11
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| Subject: | RE: Zenith-List; Zenith building expense |
Just a plug for Todd's Canopies www.toddscanopies.com/, I can attest to the excellent quality and the price is about 1/2 that.
>a canopy is
>600.00 + shipping ...
Craig S.
N601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235, ~ $40K not counting labor
-----------------------------------------
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I strongly reccomend Fastenal. They are everywhere.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHar
leysville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----
=0AFrom: ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent:
Thursday, October 4, 2007 12:46:41 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith b
tz@nbme.org>=0A=0AYeah, I could have saved even more money. I actually boug
ht some 6061-T6 bar stock from Yard, took a day off to drive up to north je
rsey, only to find out that the same stuff was literally 600 feet down the
street at Fastenals. LOL=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A[quote="bill_dom(at)yah
oo.com"]Yarde Metals is still cheaper than Aircraft Spruce and they pack th
e material very nicely. You will need to purchase 5 to 8 sheet at a time i
n order to take advantage of their better pricing.=0A=0AWilliam Dominguez
=0AZodiac 601XL Plans=0AMiami, Florida=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online =0A>
[b]=0A=0A=0A--------=0AAndy Shontz=0ACH601XL - Corvair=0Awww.mykitlog.com/a
shontz=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matron
======================0A=0A=0A
=0A____________________________________________________________________
________________=0ATake the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in y
our pocket: mail, news, photos & more. =0Ahttp://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer
=1GNXIC
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
The only thing I wasn't excited about them was that they were a bit limited on
the aluminum sheet front. Not a lot to choose from. If they had that going for
them that'd be awesome, a metal supermarket right down the street from me at
competitive prices. I did manage to score some 5052 for my fuel tanks from them.
do not archive
planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote:
> I strongly reccomend Fastenal. They are everywhere.
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
>
>
> ---
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138108#138108
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
my local branches were willing to bring in the sheet sizes needed if they c
ould come in at their convenience.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA
=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: ashontz <a
shontz@nbme.org>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October
4, 2007 2:14:41 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense=0A
The only thing I wasn't excited about them was that they were a bit limited
on the aluminum sheet front. Not a lot to choose from. If they had that go
ing for them that'd be awesome, a metal supermarket right down the street f
rom me at competitive prices. I did manage to score some 5052 for my fuel t
anks from them.=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0Aplanecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote
:=0A> I strongly reccomend Fastenal. They are everywhere.=0A> =0A> Dave
Downey=0A> Harleysville (SE) PA=0A> 100 HP Corvair=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> -
--=0A=0A=0A--------=0AAndy Shontz=0ACH601XL - Corvair=0Awww.mykitlog.com/as
hontz=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matroni
======================0A=0A=0A
=0A____________________________________________________________________
________________=0ALooking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hot
els with Yahoo! FareChase.=0Ahttp://farechase.yahoo.com/
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I wish we were so lucky here is South Central Connecticut. We have a Metal
Supermarket here as well and I find thier prices to be out-of-sight!! I am
aware these stores are independently owned franchises so it seems your
location has MUCH better pricing.
I'm a Fastenal customer and there are some good deals for fasteners at The
Nutty Company as well (_www.nutty.com_ (http://www.nutty.com) )
Tracy Smith
N458XL reserved
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 10/4/2007 1:16:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
The only thing I wasn't excited about them was that they were a bit limited
on the aluminum sheet front. Not a lot to choose from. If they had that going
for them that'd be awesome, a metal supermarket right down the street from
me at competitive prices. I did manage to score some 5052 for my fuel tanks
from them.
do not archive
planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote:
> I strongly reccomend Fastenal. They are everywhere.
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
>
>
> ---
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I'm going to have to ask again at mine. Must have been a couple of smacks working
the counter last time I was in there.
do not archive
planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote:
> my local branches were willing to bring in the sheet sizes needed if they could
come in at their convenience.
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
>
>
> ---
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138122#138122
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I need to clarify something from my previous post... on the spread sheet the
gasket set it is priced at 199.00 I ordered one today for my 601 and it is
actually 109.00. You might want to be careful getting an OEM gasket set because
it might have the older style pushrod tube o-rings and they leak and when
you get your head gaskets make sure to use the proper ones not the OEM. I also
stand by my original posts that you cannot build a 601 xl with all the same
parts you get from Zenith for 5,000 dollars there are too many parts you can't
make yourself... Like the gear that is 600.00 or the canopy that is 600.00
the wheels tires and brakes, fuel selector and strobes I do think you can do
it for between 8 and 9 K the rest is up to you as far as costs go I was
simply saying the one's I build can't be done for 20,000. I to see the cost
savings in scratch building and have started making templets of the originals
to
make them faster. And my next one will be plans built. If you would like to see
the one's I am building now you can check out my website at
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com)
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Keep in mind that my upset came before I committed to buying ANY sheet thro
ugh them so I do not know if they actually were going to perform or not - b
ut they certainly said it was not a problem - even partial sheets. The bran
ch I was dealing with (over the phone only) was in Telford, PA.=0A =0ADave
Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Me
ssage ----=0AFrom: ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.c
om=0ASent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 3:32:12 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re:
z" <ashontz@nbme.org>=0A=0AI'm going to have to ask again at mine. Must hav
e been a couple of smacks working the counter last time I was in there.=0A
=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0Aplanecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote:=0A> my local bra
nches were willing to bring in the sheet sizes needed if they could come in
at their convenience.=0A> =0A> Dave Downey=0A> Harleysville (SE) PA=0A
> 100 HP Corvair=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> ---=0A=0A=0A--------=0AAndy Shontz
=0ACH601XL - Corvair=0Awww.mykitlog.com/ashontz=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this top
ic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138122#1
==========0A=0A=0A _________________________________
___________________________________________________=0AFussy? Opinionated? I
mpossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. h
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
the landing gear is eminently doable - and it is not that big of a deal. It
requires a substantial amount of time and craftsmanship but it is a simple
part to make. Now, if you want gundrilled brake lines, that is a different
story - but the basic design is no problem.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysvil
le (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom:
"Afterfxllc@aol.com" <Afterfxllc@aol.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 3:54:06 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: R
e: Zenith building expense=0A=0A=0AI need to clarify something from my prev
ious post... on the spread sheet the gasket set it is priced at 199.00 I or
dered one today for my 601 and it is actually 109.00. You might want to be
careful getting an OEM gasket set because it might have the older style pus
hrod tube o-rings and they leak and when you get your head gaskets make sur
e to use the proper ones not the OEM. I also stand by my original posts tha
t you cannot build a 601 xl with all the same parts you get from Zenith for
5,000 dollars there are too many parts you can't make yourself... Like the
gear that is 600.00 or the canopy that is 600.00 the wheels tires and brak
es, fuel selector and strobes I do think you can do it for between 8 and 9
K the rest is up to you as far as costs go I was simply saying the one's I
build can't be done for 20,000. I to see the cost savings in scratch build
ing and have started making templets of the originals to make them faster.
And my next one will be
plans built. If you would like to see the one's I am building now you can
check out my website at www.project601xl.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ASee what
-========================
============0A=0A=0A =0A_______________________
_____________________________________________________________=0ANeed a vaca
tion? Get great deals=0Ato amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.=0Ahttp://travel
.yahoo.com/
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response |
Inflicting my view? Sorry, I didn't realize my opinion conflicted with yours.
I'll run right out and change it. By the way which side of politics do you
stand on?
Have a nice day,
Jeff
zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote:
> ?
> Jeff, would this be the wrong time to mention that my company demonstrator 601XL
is a plans built with a Corvair engine? Not to mention that total cost is
below $15,000 if you don't count my panel of which I went overboard. In addition,
you added Jabiru to the aircraft motors, this is not a certified Aircraft
motor and is mostly constructed using automotive parts. I have a few friends that
have a 601 even cheaper, one gent has a standard panel 601XL ready for flight,(
waiting for final inspection) he plans built it in a year and is under $12,000
without paint but everything else.
>
> Safety is construction methods and materials, not brand names! Although most
plans built aircraft are not as nice as a kit built plane, I have seen some plans
built planes I would be very happy to fly and some kit built that scarred
me, also I have seen a few that won Grand Champion at the airshows.
>
> Jeff, you are inflicting your point of view, this comes from the path you have
traveled over your life. IT is sound advice for those who have traveled similar
routes. Nevertheless, it is not an opinion that is relevant to others who
walked the line of life enjoying the creation of projects. Building a plane from
plans is not hard; 10 years ago, Zenair only sold kits that were hand created,
to say, each and every part was made in the plans builder fashion. THEREFORE,
if a builder is willing to take the time to learn the proper methods, there
is no reason in this world why he cannot build a plane just as airworthy as
yours.
> [img]cid:image001.jpg@01C805FD.347C1130[/img]
>
>
> MOREOVER, if plans? building was such a hard and unachievable goal then why would
Zenith support such a feature? Why would I have instructed a workshop, in
the Zenith facility during the open house?
> ?
>
> Hosted by Mark of Can-Zac Aviation (http://www.can-zacaviation.com) (Zenith Aircraft's Canadian representative), this workshop covered the skills, materials, tools and commitment required to accomplish the feat of plans-building your own aircraft, whether the STOL CH 701 (http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7drawings.html) or Zodiac XL (http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/drawings.html), for less than $10,000 (not counting the engine). Topics included: Reading and understanding the drawings and manuals, making rib form blocks, cutting the sheet metal rib blanks, deburring and polishing techniques, rib forming, tips, tricks and techniques, and more.
> From the Zenith website, written by the President of Zenith. Being generous with
a FWF of $5,000 for a Corvair installation and you have a plane for under
$15,000.
> Jeff, I in no way wish to insult you, Everything you have stated in the last
few letters is true as it applies to yourself and other like minded people. I
believe that you truly cannot see that it is possible for others to accomplish
this feat; I also believe that you have certain beliefs in your decisions that
would not allow you to accomplish this goal. However, others do not share your
thought process, nor should they if it is not appropriate.
>
> In closing, installing a Jabiru engine in my 601XL would have been my first choice,
along with the FWF. It really is a simple installation and very nice engine.
Nevertheless, I am not a rich man, so when I weighed the options I installed
the Corvair and have a safe plane, with a proven track record design.
>
> Yes Jeff, I do consider my 601XL a ?real? plane. Also I consider myself an average
builder when I began it, plus my first plane I built from plans I considered
myself a less then average builder, but very eager to learn as much as I
could.
>
> I have said this before to many, if you are building to own and fly a brand new
plane with superior performance over the old dilapidated rental fleets out
there, buy a QBK kit! IF you are building to save a few dollars but get a flying
plane then purchase a kit. IF your building to live an adventure of building
a plane from a flat sheet and the flying at the end is just a new bonus then
consider a plans built, it is a hell of an adventure.
>
> As for the NSI and dead stick landings, yup I can see that. I have always held
the belief that if you take any motor designed at 70hp then hop It up to 105hp
your in for a world of headaches. I like the Subaru engines, I have 5 in the
shop, but they are a harder conversion and not for the average guy like the
Corvair is. In addition, the average Corvair is outputting the hp is was designed
for. Nevertheless, each of us must make that decision based on their own investigations,
NO-ONE can tell us what to do in our own planes, but it is always
good to hear the opinions, BOTH sides of the coin and pick which truths apply
to our own personal capabilities and situations.
>
> As for Renting, Lets see my last rental, C-150 walk around. All fiberglass parts
cracked. Duct tape holding things on, oil leaks from FWF, drips of fuel from
wing tank bleeders. Paint in shameful faded condition. Windshield and side
windows glazed, fuel gauges inaccurate, one non-functional, seats ripped and hard
to move, carpet stank !
>
> GOD I wish I only found this on one plane but it is all to typical of the rental
fleet out there. I show my list of real problems I would NOT accept in my
own plane and get the response that it has just had a fresh annual a month or
two ago and is all good till next year. IT may fly but I feel far safer behind
the plane I built and did not have to use duct tape to keep parts on.
>
> Moreover, don?t forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty woman up for
her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully someone has bragged
over this, I have been married for over 20 years and forfeited this right.
> ?
> Mark Townsend
> Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
> president@can-zacaviation.com
> www.can-zacaviation.com
>
>
> --
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138138#138138
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Making the main gear don't seem difficult it is the bending that would worry
me. Zenith had a problem with them cracking at the bends not sure what that
was about. I would just hate to buy that chunk of alum. and then mess it up
bending it.
In a message dated 10/4/2007 4:38:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
planecrazydld@yahoo.com writes:
the landing gear is eminently doable - and it is not that big of a deal. It
requires a substantial amount of time and craftsmanship but it is a simple
part to make. Now, if you want gundrilled brake lines, that is a different
story - but the basic design is no problem.
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
If two identical wings are made I doubt the condition you describe
should be called heavy left wing.
Your aircraft is rolling to the Left!
If the two wings are identical
the weight of the pilot in the Lh side will cause roll to the left.
Other things to check is the wing incedance is correct over the entire
length of both wings.
If this ok you should be able to place a trim tab on Aileron to balance
controls for the particular configoration
most commonly flown ( 1 person, two person)
Roll to the left corrected by lifting Lh wing if tab placed on lh
aileron must be bent up (pushes down Lh aileron)
Graeme Bell CH 701
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Maxson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 11:35 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7
My Corvair spins the "wrong way", and I have the slight left wing
heavy thing, so it's not prop-wash. I usually just fill the right tank
only or burn fuel from the left tank first. I find leaning my knee on
the stick helps.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> From: craig@craigandjean.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7
> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:44:01 -0600
>
<craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> > Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a
counter-clockwise-rotating
> prop? It would be fun to know.
>
> Corvairs spin the "other" way.
>
> -- Craig
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Boo! Scare away worms,
re.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews'
target='_new'>Try now!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
4/10/2007 5:03 PM
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy left wing7 |
Thanks, Paul. Now I don't have to move my trim tab to the other
aileron!!!
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Maxson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7
My Corvair spins the "wrong way", and I have the slight left wing
heavy thing, so it's not prop-wash. I usually just fill the right tank
only or burn fuel from the left tank first. I find leaning my knee on
the stick helps.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> From: craig@craigandjean.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7
> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:44:01 -0600
>
<craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> > Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a
counter-clockwise-rotating
> prop? It would be fun to know.
>
> Corvairs spin the "other" way.
>
> -- Craig
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Boo! Scare away worms,
re.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews'
target='_new'>Try now!
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Kit vs plans and costs. |
All-
Once again, I agree with a previous post. There's no way you can
paint "Cost" using the same brush. Location and the personal risk you're
willing to accept has a tremendous effect.
Location? I saw a post that quoted $300 for nitriding and threading
the safety shaft. I farmed everything out and it cost less than $200.00.
Of course, I live 17 miles away from the tool+die capital of the world.
The nitriding cost is dependent on freight charges.
On the other hand, you have to consider what risk you're willing to
accept. WW, for all his business related faults, has done one hell of a
lot of testing on different Corvair builds. Are you going to move your
nose strut back 1' because it looks better? CH put it there for a
carefully calculated reason. If WW recommended reworked jugs from a
specified source, I'd take his advice. Save money by homebuilding
non-critical components such as the top plate (If you can!). Saying,
'These jugs are good enough with a quick hone" is more risk than I want
to take.
Sometimes, you get what you pay for. Peace of mind.
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: ZodieRocket
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:38 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Kit vs plans and costs.
Alas, the temptation we all seem to have is to
think our own analysis is the only one that really counts and should
be applied to all other builders. I think the truth is each builder
and each airplane built is unique. We can all try to help each other
complete our projects even if we can't agree on the reasons and
issues each of us must consider.
Paul
XL fuselage
Very eloquently put Paul, I agree fully, in my last post I tried to
make the same point, but it ended up a little long winded, and still
missed the point with the finesse your one paragraph has.
Mark
Do not archive
10/2/2007 6:43 PM
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
There is no mystery in bending 6061T - or any other alloy and temper for th
at matter - I am very surprised that they had issues as CH is usually a sti
ckler for that kind of detail. All the information is very old and very muc
h public domain.=0A =0ADave Downey=0A Harleysville (SE) PA=0A 100 HP Corv
air=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Afterfxllc@aol.com" <Af
terfxllc@aol.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October
4, 2007 5:20:37 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense
=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AMaking the main gear don't seem difficult it is the b
ending that would =0Aworry me. Zenith had a problem with them cracking at t
he bends not sure what =0Athat was about. I would just hate to buy that chu
nk of alum. and then mess it up =0Abending it.=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0AIn
a message dated 10/4/2007 4:38:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =0Aplanecraz
ydld@yahoo.com writes:=0A=0Athe landing gear is eminently doable - and it i
s not that big of a =0A deal. It requires a substantial amount of time and
craftsmanship but it is a =0A simple part to make. Now, if you want gundr
illed brake lines, that is a =0A different story - but the basic design is
no =0Aproblem.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0ASee what's new="_blank">Make A
-========================
============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________
___________________________________________________________________________
_=0ATake the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mai
l, news, photos & more. =0Ahttp://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Andy,
What is your source for the "SCAT CHEVY CAST CRANKSHAFTS" for Corvair? I'd
like to read more about them.
Question: Can a nitride hardened crank be drilled and tapped for WW's safety
shaft or is it too hard? I thought you had to modify the crank before you
have it nitrided. I don't know about those things.
Dave Thompson
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response |
:P LOL
Mark, just let him spend too much. Apparently it's good for the economy, but not
necessarily good for the individual. LOL
n85ae wrote:
> Inflicting my view? Sorry, I didn't realize my opinion conflicted with yours.
> I'll run right out and change it. By the way which side of politics do you
> stand on?
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote:
> > ?
> > Jeff, would this be the wrong time to mention that my company demonstrator
601XL is a plans built with a Corvair engine? Not to mention that total cost is
below $15,000 if you don't count my panel of which I went overboard. In addition,
you added Jabiru to the aircraft motors, this is not a certified Aircraft
motor and is mostly constructed using automotive parts. I have a few friends
that have a 601 even cheaper, one gent has a standard panel 601XL ready for flight,(
waiting for final inspection) he plans built it in a year and is under
$12,000 without paint but everything else.
> >
> > Safety is construction methods and materials, not brand names! Although most
plans built aircraft are not as nice as a kit built plane, I have seen some
plans built planes I would be very happy to fly and some kit built that scarred
me, also I have seen a few that won Grand Champion at the airshows.
> >
> > Jeff, you are inflicting your point of view, this comes from the path you have
traveled over your life. IT is sound advice for those who have traveled similar
routes. Nevertheless, it is not an opinion that is relevant to others who
walked the line of life enjoying the creation of projects. Building a plane
from plans is not hard; 10 years ago, Zenair only sold kits that were hand created,
to say, each and every part was made in the plans builder fashion. THEREFORE,
if a builder is willing to take the time to learn the proper methods, there
is no reason in this world why he cannot build a plane just as airworthy as
yours.
> > [img]cid:image001.jpg@01C805FD.347C1130[/img]
> >
> >
> > MOREOVER, if plans? building was such a hard and unachievable goal then why
would Zenith support such a feature? Why would I have instructed a workshop,
in the Zenith facility during the open house?
> > ?
> >
> > Hosted by Mark of Can-Zac Aviation (http://www.can-zacaviation.com) (Zenith Aircraft's Canadian representative), this workshop covered the skills, materials, tools and commitment required to accomplish the feat of plans-building your own aircraft, whether the STOL CH 701 (http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7drawings.html) or Zodiac XL (http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/drawings.html), for less than $10,000 (not counting the engine). Topics included: Reading and understanding the drawings and manuals, making rib form blocks, cutting the sheet metal rib blanks, deburring and polishing techniques, rib forming, tips, tricks and techniques, and more.
> > From the Zenith website, written by the President of Zenith. Being generous
with a FWF of $5,000 for a Corvair installation and you have a plane for under
$15,000.
> > Jeff, I in no way wish to insult you, Everything you have stated in the last
few letters is true as it applies to yourself and other like minded people.
I believe that you truly cannot see that it is possible for others to accomplish
this feat; I also believe that you have certain beliefs in your decisions that
would not allow you to accomplish this goal. However, others do not share
your thought process, nor should they if it is not appropriate.
> >
> > In closing, installing a Jabiru engine in my 601XL would have been my first
choice, along with the FWF. It really is a simple installation and very nice
engine. Nevertheless, I am not a rich man, so when I weighed the options I installed
the Corvair and have a safe plane, with a proven track record design.
> >
> > Yes Jeff, I do consider my 601XL a ?real? plane. Also I consider myself an
average builder when I began it, plus my first plane I built from plans I considered
myself a less then average builder, but very eager to learn as much as
I could.
> >
> > I have said this before to many, if you are building to own and fly a brand
new plane with superior performance over the old dilapidated rental fleets out
there, buy a QBK kit! IF you are building to save a few dollars but get a flying
plane then purchase a kit. IF your building to live an adventure of building
a plane from a flat sheet and the flying at the end is just a new bonus then
consider a plans built, it is a hell of an adventure.
> >
> > As for the NSI and dead stick landings, yup I can see that. I have always held
the belief that if you take any motor designed at 70hp then hop It up to 105hp
your in for a world of headaches. I like the Subaru engines, I have 5 in
the shop, but they are a harder conversion and not for the average guy like the
Corvair is. In addition, the average Corvair is outputting the hp is was designed
for. Nevertheless, each of us must make that decision based on their own
investigations, NO-ONE can tell us what to do in our own planes, but it is always
good to hear the opinions, BOTH sides of the coin and pick which truths apply
to our own personal capabilities and situations.
> >
> > As for Renting, Lets see my last rental, C-150 walk around. All fiberglass
parts cracked. Duct tape holding things on, oil leaks from FWF, drips of fuel
from wing tank bleeders. Paint in shameful faded condition. Windshield and side
windows glazed, fuel gauges inaccurate, one non-functional, seats ripped and
hard to move, carpet stank !
> >
> > GOD I wish I only found this on one plane but it is all to typical of the rental
fleet out there. I show my list of real problems I would NOT accept in my
own plane and get the response that it has just had a fresh annual a month or
two ago and is all good till next year. IT may fly but I feel far safer behind
the plane I built and did not have to use duct tape to keep parts on.
> >
> > Moreover, don?t forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty woman up
for her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully someone has
bragged over this, I have been married for over 20 years and forfeited this right.
> > ?
> > Mark Townsend
> > Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
> > president@can-zacaviation.com
> > www.can-zacaviation.com
> >
> >
> > --
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138165#138165
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| Subject: | Canopy Crack....... |
Hi Folks, looking for a solution to repair a hairline crack in my canopy, it
is not in a line of sight area and if the repair is not clear it will not be
a problem, I just want to seal the break and keep it from growing. I have
already stop drilled the area. Any thoughts or tips will be greatly
appreciated, such as brands of epoxy or glue that might work.
Chet Kruleski
601XL
Las Vegas, NV
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded responseZenith |
building expense
"Moreover, don't forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty woman up
for her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully someone
has bragged over this, I have been married for over 20 years and forfeited
this right."
Mark,
I've met your wife, She's a pretty woman! :)
I like the other stuff you wrote.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I'd like to read about anyone who has had the guts to fly behind one.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Thompson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith building expense
Andy,
What is your source for the "SCAT CHEVY CAST CRANKSHAFTS" for Corvair?
I'd like to read more about them.
Dave Thompson
Message 31
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Is cast crank good enough for airplane motor? Or should I stick fo forged one?
GeorgeM
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Thompson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith building expense
Andy,
What is your source for the "SCAT CHEVY CAST CRANKSHAFTS" for Corvair? I'd like
to read more about them.
Question: Can a nitride hardened crank be drilled and tapped for WW's safety
shaft or is it too hard? I thought you had to modify the crank before you have
it nitrided. I don't know about those things.
Dave Thompson
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Crack....... |
Go to your plastics supply company... they make a solvent that will bond the
crack I forgot the name of it but I'm sure if you tell them what you are
needing they will help you out.
Message 33
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| Subject: | heavy left wing/roll to left |
All the input on the "Heavy Wing" has been great ,and I'am sure it 's
been beat to death.As Columbo says "Just One More Thing" Does any one
have a pict. of one on a plane? Is .025 thick enough ? About how long
and how wide,and how much is is hanging off the wing? Pop rivited? I
just want to get it right Thanks again to you all !!
Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
Concerning the landing gear, does any one , like Grove, manufacture them
for the 601xl taildragger conversion.
Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: David Downey
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense
the landing gear is eminently doable - and it is not that big of a
deal. It requires a substantial amount of time and craftsmanship but it
is a simple part to make. Now, if you want gundrilled brake lines, that
is a different story - but the basic design is no problem.
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
----- Original Message ----
From: "Afterfxllc@aol.com" <Afterfxllc@aol.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 3:54:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense
I need to clarify something from my previous post... on the spread
sheet the gasket set it is priced at 199.00 I ordered one today for my
601 and it is actually 109.00. You might want to be careful getting an
OEM gasket set because it might have the older style pushrod tube
o-rings and they leak and when you get your head gaskets make sure to
use the proper ones not the OEM. I also stand by my original posts that
you cannot build a 601 xl with all the same parts you get from Zenith
for 5,000 dollars there are too many parts you can't make yourself...
Like the gear that is 600.00 or the canopy that is 600.00 the wheels
tires and brakes, fuel selector and strobes I do think you can do it
for between 8 and 9 K the rest is up to you as far as costs go I was
simply saying the one's I build can't be done for 20,000. I to see the
cost savings in scratch building and have started making templets of the
originals to make them faster. And my next one will be plans built. If
you would like to see the one's I am building now you can check out my
website at www.project601xl.com
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Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Crack....... |
What we did in our helicopters when they would develop
a crack was to stop drill at both ends and then glue a
piece overtop the cracked area.
Terry
--- CHETKRU@aol.com wrote:
> Hi Folks, looking for a solution to repair a
> hairline crack in my canopy, it
> is not in a line of sight area and if the repair is
> not clear it will not be
> a problem, I just want to seal the break and keep it
> from growing. I have
> already stop drilled the area. Any thoughts or tips
> will be greatly
> appreciated, such as brands of epoxy or glue that
> might work.
>
> Chet Kruleski
> 601XL
> Las Vegas, NV
>
>
>
>
Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Crack....... |
That's what I did on 633Z.
See: http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/seattle_looking_south.jpg
I barely got the crack stop drilled in time to avoid a 2 piece canopy.
I took the canopy to a plastics shop and was told that the crack could
not be repaired - seems like it depends on who you talk to. So I glued
plastic over it. Fortunately, the crack is easy to forget in flight.
It's been that way since 2003.
I caused the additional hairline cracks by clamping the patch between
plywood scraps while it was drying. Turns out that is a bad thing to do.
The canopy has complex curves and is stressed. Don't clamp it and force
it flat. I used 'Craftics #33' glue, for acrylic, lucite + plexiglas.
The glue did cause the patch to become opaque. Not a problem in my
application. But not what I wanted either.
Joe E @ BFI
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/
On Thu, 4 Oct 2007, Terry Fogelson wrote:
>
> What we did in our helicopters when they would develop
> a crack was to stop drill at both ends and then glue a
> piece overtop the cracked area.
>
> Terry
> --- CHETKRU@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Hi Folks, looking for a solution to repair a
> > hairline crack in my canopy, it
> > is not in a line of sight area and if the repair is
> > not clear it will not be
> > a problem, I just want to seal the break and keep it
> > from growing. I have
> > already stop drilled the area. Any thoughts or tips
> > will be greatly
> > appreciated, such as brands of epoxy or glue that
> > might work.
> >
> > Chet Kruleski
> > 601XL
> > Las Vegas, NV
> >
> > do not archive
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