---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/04/07: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:21 AM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (David Downey) 2. 04:53 AM - Re: Heavy left wing7 (steveadams) 3. 06:37 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (Gig Giacona) 4. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (Phil Maxson) 5. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 6. 09:40 AM - Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response (ashontz) 7. 09:41 AM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (Gary Ray) 8. 09:47 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz) 9. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing XL (japhillipsga@aol.com) 10. 10:24 AM - Aileron Trim Tabs - Heavy Wing () 11. 10:36 AM - Re: Zenith-List; Zenith building expense () 12. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (David Downey) 13. 11:15 AM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz) 14. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (David Downey) 15. 12:24 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 16. 12:33 PM - Re: Zenith building expense (ashontz) 17. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 18. 01:23 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (David Downey) 19. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (David Downey) 20. 02:05 PM - Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response (n85ae) 21. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 22. 03:30 PM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (Graeme) 23. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: Heavy left wing7 (Bill Naumuk) 24. 04:04 PM - Re: Kit vs plans and costs. (Bill Naumuk) 25. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (David Downey) 26. 04:39 PM - Re: Zenith building expense (Dave Thompson) 27. 04:45 PM - Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response (ashontz) 28. 04:52 PM - Canopy Crack....... (CHETKRU@aol.com) 29. 04:58 PM - Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded responseZenith building expense (Dave Thompson) 30. 05:36 PM - Re: Zenith building expense (Robin Bellach) 31. 05:43 PM - Cast or forged? (GeorgeM) 32. 06:21 PM - Re: Canopy Crack....... (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 33. 07:15 PM - heavy left wing/roll to left (Southern Reflections) 34. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Bob Unternaehrer) 35. 08:13 PM - Re: Canopy Crack....... (Terry Fogelson) 36. 10:25 PM - Re: Canopy Crack....... (xl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:52 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 the closer to the center of area that any force is applied the lower the ex traneous forces the structure has to manage. In this case it is torsion on the aileron - and in this case the aileron is actuated from the end rib so it probably does not matter at all because the tab loads are constant and t he control loads are reversing.=0A=0AIn the case of a wing leveling tab it does matter: the tab should favor high aspect ratio and be located as far o utboard as possible to result in the lowest drag for any applied correction .=0A=0AOh wait a minute! This is real aircraft engineering data, applied to an=0Aairplane that may be around for much longer than the builder lives, =0Awhere durability and fatigue resistance may actually be a concern...neve r mind.=0A=0Ado not archive=0A =0ADave Downey=0A Harleysville (SE) PA=0A 100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Robert Loer < rloer@aceweb.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 1:28:04 AM=0ASubject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7=0A=0A =0AIf I understand a trim tab on an aileron when you have a heavy or low le ft wing you put a tab on the left and bend it up which moves the aileron do wn and raises the wing.=0A=0AIf this is correct would it make a difference where or how far out on the aileron it was mounted?=0A=0ARobert Loer=0A=0A =0A>------- Original Message -------=0A>From : John M. Goodings[mailto:good ings@yorku.ca]=0A>Sent : 10/3/2007 7:17:37 PM=0A>To : zenith-list@matronics .com=0A>Cc : =0A>Subject : RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7=0A>=0A>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John M. Goodings" =0A =0AThe "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I =0Adon't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to=0Aclockwi se-rotating propeller torque. Slightly incorrect offset angle of=0Athe engi ==========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A______________ ______________________________________________________________________=0APi npoint customers who are looking for what you sell. =0Ahttp://searchmarketi ng.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:19 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 From: "steveadams" I don't know about the 601, but the 640 and CH2000 drawings specify an aileron trim tab to be placed on the bottom inboard surface of the aileron, effectively pushing that aileron up. This makes sense to me as you are applying the trim tab force closest to the end rib actuator, thus there is less of a twisting force applied. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138035#138035 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:26 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense From: "Gig Giacona" >From the top of the main page at flycorvair.com. William Wynne The Corvair Authority 5000-18 HWY 17 #247 Orange Park, FL 32003 This is his home address and he is no longer in the Edgewater FL hanger. That has been turned over to Gus. FOr details visit: http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html Jeyoung65(at)aol.com wrote: > That is where I got the addresses and phone number. Jerry of Ga > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138053#138053 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:08 AM PST US From: Phil Maxson Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 My Corvair spins the "wrong way", and I have the slight left wing heavy thi ng, so it's not prop-wash. I usually just fill the right tank only or burn fuel from the left tank first. I find leaning my knee on the stick helps. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey > From: craig@craigandjean.com> To: zenith-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:44:01 -0600> > > > Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a counter-clockwise-rotat ing> prop? It would be fun to know.> > Corvairs spin the "other" way.> > -- Craig _________________________________________________________________ ! ilnews ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:34 AM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense In a message dated 10/4/2007 9:38:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wr.giacona@suddenlink.net writes: http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html Thanks Gig for the information. It filled in a lot of blank areas. Jerry of Ga ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response From: "ashontz" Here here. Sounds good to me. :) do not archive zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote: > ? > Jeff, would this be the wrong time to mention that my company demonstrator 601XL is a plans built with a Corvair engine? Not to mention that total cost is below $15,000 if you don't count my panel of which I went overboard. In addition, you added Jabiru to the aircraft motors, this is not a certified Aircraft motor and is mostly constructed using automotive parts. I have a few friends that have a 601 even cheaper, one gent has a standard panel 601XL ready for flight,( waiting for final inspection) he plans built it in a year and is under $12,000 without paint but everything else. > > Safety is construction methods and materials, not brand names! Although most plans built aircraft are not as nice as a kit built plane, I have seen some plans built planes I would be very happy to fly and some kit built that scarred me, also I have seen a few that won Grand Champion at the airshows. > > Jeff, you are inflicting your point of view, this comes from the path you have traveled over your life. IT is sound advice for those who have traveled similar routes. Nevertheless, it is not an opinion that is relevant to others who walked the line of life enjoying the creation of projects. Building a plane from plans is not hard; 10 years ago, Zenair only sold kits that were hand created, to say, each and every part was made in the plans builder fashion. THEREFORE, if a builder is willing to take the time to learn the proper methods, there is no reason in this world why he cannot build a plane just as airworthy as yours. > [img]cid:image001.jpg@01C805FD.347C1130[/img] > > > MOREOVER, if plans? building was such a hard and unachievable goal then why would Zenith support such a feature? Why would I have instructed a workshop, in the Zenith facility during the open house? > ? > > Hosted by Mark of Can-Zac Aviation (http://www.can-zacaviation.com) (Zenith Aircraft's Canadian representative), this workshop covered the skills, materials, tools and commitment required to accomplish the feat of plans-building your own aircraft, whether the STOL CH 701 (http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7drawings.html) or Zodiac XL (http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/drawings.html), for less than $10,000 (not counting the engine). Topics included: Reading and understanding the drawings and manuals, making rib form blocks, cutting the sheet metal rib blanks, deburring and polishing techniques, rib forming, tips, tricks and techniques, and more. > From the Zenith website, written by the President of Zenith. Being generous with a FWF of $5,000 for a Corvair installation and you have a plane for under $15,000. > Jeff, I in no way wish to insult you, Everything you have stated in the last few letters is true as it applies to yourself and other like minded people. I believe that you truly cannot see that it is possible for others to accomplish this feat; I also believe that you have certain beliefs in your decisions that would not allow you to accomplish this goal. However, others do not share your thought process, nor should they if it is not appropriate. > > In closing, installing a Jabiru engine in my 601XL would have been my first choice, along with the FWF. It really is a simple installation and very nice engine. Nevertheless, I am not a rich man, so when I weighed the options I installed the Corvair and have a safe plane, with a proven track record design. > > Yes Jeff, I do consider my 601XL a ?real? plane. Also I consider myself an average builder when I began it, plus my first plane I built from plans I considered myself a less then average builder, but very eager to learn as much as I could. > > I have said this before to many, if you are building to own and fly a brand new plane with superior performance over the old dilapidated rental fleets out there, buy a QBK kit! IF you are building to save a few dollars but get a flying plane then purchase a kit. IF your building to live an adventure of building a plane from a flat sheet and the flying at the end is just a new bonus then consider a plans built, it is a hell of an adventure. > > As for the NSI and dead stick landings, yup I can see that. I have always held the belief that if you take any motor designed at 70hp then hop It up to 105hp your in for a world of headaches. I like the Subaru engines, I have 5 in the shop, but they are a harder conversion and not for the average guy like the Corvair is. In addition, the average Corvair is outputting the hp is was designed for. Nevertheless, each of us must make that decision based on their own investigations, NO-ONE can tell us what to do in our own planes, but it is always good to hear the opinions, BOTH sides of the coin and pick which truths apply to our own personal capabilities and situations. > > As for Renting, Lets see my last rental, C-150 walk around. All fiberglass parts cracked. Duct tape holding things on, oil leaks from FWF, drips of fuel from wing tank bleeders. Paint in shameful faded condition. Windshield and side windows glazed, fuel gauges inaccurate, one non-functional, seats ripped and hard to move, carpet stank ! > > GOD I wish I only found this on one plane but it is all to typical of the rental fleet out there. I show my list of real problems I would NOT accept in my own plane and get the response that it has just had a fresh annual a month or two ago and is all good till next year. IT may fly but I feel far safer behind the plane I built and did not have to use duct tape to keep parts on. > > Moreover, don?t forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty woman up for her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully someone has bragged over this, I have been married for over 20 years and forfeited this right. > ? > Mark Townsend > Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. > president@can-zacaviation.com > www.can-zacaviation.com > > > -- -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138082#138082 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:52 AM PST US From: "Gary Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 John There is another method to consider shown on http://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm under the Bungee Trim heading. To me the advantage would be to bias the system and assist the electric trim system for single pilot operation. In my aircraft with me at 218 lbs flying alone with evenly balanced fuel, my electric trim tab is deployed 1/2 to 3/4 of full travel depending on air speed. I may install this modification to allow a nearly neutral trim tab position and use the electric trim for fine the finer adjustments as fuel burns off. Gary Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "John M. Goodings" Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:17 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 > > The "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I > don't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to > clockwise-rotating propeller torque. Slightly incorrect offset angle of > the engine mount might be another reason. Non-skid wing root material > won't be a contributor. In other words, I can't give you a definitive > answer! Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a > counter-clockwise-rotating prop? It would be fun to know. I have never > heard of a case of heavy right wing. We put our trim tab about half way > out along the aileron; the precise distance is not critical. Further out > from the fuselage will have more effect. It is absolutely NOT necessary > to go to the trouble of making two trim tabs, one for each wing; you have > better uses for your time! > > John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto. > > > -- 8:22 PM > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense From: "ashontz" Yeah, I could have saved even more money. I actually bought some 6061-T6 bar stock from Yard, took a day off to drive up to north jersey, only to find out that the same stuff was literally 600 feet down the street at Fastenals. LOL do not archive [quote="bill_dom(at)yahoo.com"]Yarde Metals is still cheaper than Aircraft Spruce and they pack the material very nicely. You will need to purchase 5 to 8 sheet at a time in order to take advantage of their better pricing. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida Read this topic online > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138087#138087 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing XL From: japhillipsga@aol.com I can give you the answer for the heavy left wing on the XL. First the left side of the plane is heavier than the right side from weight and balance. Even empty the left side is heavier and has more drag. The flap steel bracket and flap motor is on the left side of the fuselage. The engine motor mount is canted to the left side to counter P torque adding to the weight shift. The left wing has the aileron trim and motor and wires making it heaver and dirtier along with the pitot tubes under the wing. Now add flying in the left side and you add body weigh on the left side and you have a heavy left wing. Now when I have flown with a full size fellow in the right seat I have not had to use much or any aileron trim so I'm guessing the ZAC folks are smart enough to know the plane pretty much balances when two folks are flying. Remember, the XL is really light for as big as it is and sensitive to weight shift. When flying alone I most ofter use the left tank more than the right to b alance the plane reduce trim dirt and inprove performance as the plane loses weight.?Just my 2 cents, Best regards, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300 120 hrs -----Original Message----- From: John M. Goodings Sent: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:17 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 The "heavy left wing" phenomenon is fairly common on the HD and HDS (I don't know about the XL). I think it is probably due mainly to clockwise-rotating propeller torque. Slightly incorrect offset angle of the engine mount might be another reason. Non-skid wing root material won't be a contributor. In other words, I can't give you a definitive answer! Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a counter-clockwise-rotating prop? It would be fun to know. I have never heard of a case of heavy right wing. We put our trim tab about half way out along the aileron; the precise distance is not critical. Further out from the fuselage will have more effect. It is absolutely NOT necessary to go to the trouble of making two trim tabs, one for each wing; you have better uses for your time! John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:37 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron Trim Tabs - Heavy Wing Listers, REF: Heavy Left Wing Discussion Somewhere in the dark part of my mind ( nearly 70 years makes it really dark in there! ) I seem to remember the following for a trim tab installation for a heavy wing. Put the tab on the aileron that needs to go UP ( wing down) because the tab will then be DOWN into the high pressure air stream ( read more effevtive ) and can be either smaller or bent or actuated less, thus doing it's job with less drag. I have a 601HD with only one fuel tank ( forward of the instrument panel ) that likes to fly left wing down with just me aboard with the aileron trim in neutral. I can trim it out with the electric trim tab I have on the right wing ( trim tab down into the high pressure airstream ). With two aboard I can run the trim to neutral or nearly neutral, depending on the weight of my passenger. This tells me that this 601 is sensitive to left to right weight distribution. As for wing walk material contributing to this low wing stuff - I don't think so. I don't have wing walk material on either wing! What I use is a length of my wifes rubber waffle weave shelving material ( white to match my white wings ) that I simply lay on the wing. Non slip wet or dry. Nice pretty painted wing with no peeling wing walk tape! The only thing that you have to remember to do is to stow the piece of material before engine start. Otherwise it gets blown away. After two times of that it is on my checklist brfore engine start to stow it inside the airplane stupid ( me ) . Hey folks these are just my thoughts from the dark recesses of and OLD mind. Take them for what little they are worth. Go fly - don't slip on the wing! do not archive Jim Hoak 601HD - Rotax 912UL - 560 hours. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List; Zenith building expense From: Just a plug for Todd's Canopies www.toddscanopies.com/, I can attest to the excellent quality and the price is about 1/2 that. >a canopy is >600.00 + shipping ... Craig S. N601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235, ~ $40K not counting labor ----------------------------------------- ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. ************************************************** ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:39 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense I strongly reccomend Fastenal. They are everywhere.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHar leysville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---- =0AFrom: ashontz =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 12:46:41 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith b tz@nbme.org>=0A=0AYeah, I could have saved even more money. I actually boug ht some 6061-T6 bar stock from Yard, took a day off to drive up to north je rsey, only to find out that the same stuff was literally 600 feet down the street at Fastenals. LOL=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A[quote="bill_dom(at)yah oo.com"]Yarde Metals is still cheaper than Aircraft Spruce and they pack th e material very nicely. You will need to purchase 5 to 8 sheet at a time i n order to take advantage of their better pricing.=0A=0AWilliam Dominguez =0AZodiac 601XL Plans=0AMiami, Florida=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online =0A> [b]=0A=0A=0A--------=0AAndy Shontz=0ACH601XL - Corvair=0Awww.mykitlog.com/a shontz=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matron ======================0A=0A=0A =0A____________________________________________________________________ ________________=0ATake the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in y our pocket: mail, news, photos & more. =0Ahttp://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer =1GNXIC ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:31 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense From: "ashontz" The only thing I wasn't excited about them was that they were a bit limited on the aluminum sheet front. Not a lot to choose from. If they had that going for them that'd be awesome, a metal supermarket right down the street from me at competitive prices. I did manage to score some 5052 for my fuel tanks from them. do not archive planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote: > I strongly reccomend Fastenal. They are everywhere. > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > 100 HP Corvair > > > > --- -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138108#138108 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:57 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense my local branches were willing to bring in the sheet sizes needed if they c ould come in at their convenience.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA =0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: ashontz =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 2:14:41 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense=0A The only thing I wasn't excited about them was that they were a bit limited on the aluminum sheet front. Not a lot to choose from. If they had that go ing for them that'd be awesome, a metal supermarket right down the street f rom me at competitive prices. I did manage to score some 5052 for my fuel t anks from them.=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0Aplanecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote :=0A> I strongly reccomend Fastenal. They are everywhere.=0A> =0A> Dave Downey=0A> Harleysville (SE) PA=0A> 100 HP Corvair=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> - --=0A=0A=0A--------=0AAndy Shontz=0ACH601XL - Corvair=0Awww.mykitlog.com/as hontz=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matroni ======================0A=0A=0A =0A____________________________________________________________________ ________________=0ALooking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hot els with Yahoo! FareChase.=0Ahttp://farechase.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:57 PM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense I wish we were so lucky here is South Central Connecticut. We have a Metal Supermarket here as well and I find thier prices to be out-of-sight!! I am aware these stores are independently owned franchises so it seems your location has MUCH better pricing. I'm a Fastenal customer and there are some good deals for fasteners at The Nutty Company as well (_www.nutty.com_ (http://www.nutty.com) ) Tracy Smith N458XL reserved Do Not Archive In a message dated 10/4/2007 1:16:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, ashontz@nbme.org writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" The only thing I wasn't excited about them was that they were a bit limited on the aluminum sheet front. Not a lot to choose from. If they had that going for them that'd be awesome, a metal supermarket right down the street from me at competitive prices. I did manage to score some 5052 for my fuel tanks from them. do not archive planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote: > I strongly reccomend Fastenal. They are everywhere. > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > 100 HP Corvair > > > > --- -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense From: "ashontz" I'm going to have to ask again at mine. Must have been a couple of smacks working the counter last time I was in there. do not archive planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote: > my local branches were willing to bring in the sheet sizes needed if they could come in at their convenience. > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > 100 HP Corvair > > > > --- -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138122#138122 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:53 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense I need to clarify something from my previous post... on the spread sheet the gasket set it is priced at 199.00 I ordered one today for my 601 and it is actually 109.00. You might want to be careful getting an OEM gasket set because it might have the older style pushrod tube o-rings and they leak and when you get your head gaskets make sure to use the proper ones not the OEM. I also stand by my original posts that you cannot build a 601 xl with all the same parts you get from Zenith for 5,000 dollars there are too many parts you can't make yourself... Like the gear that is 600.00 or the canopy that is 600.00 the wheels tires and brakes, fuel selector and strobes I do think you can do it for between 8 and 9 K the rest is up to you as far as costs go I was simply saying the one's I build can't be done for 20,000. I to see the cost savings in scratch building and have started making templets of the originals to make them faster. And my next one will be plans built. If you would like to see the one's I am building now you can check out my website at _www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com) ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:02 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense Keep in mind that my upset came before I committed to buying ANY sheet thro ugh them so I do not know if they actually were going to perform or not - b ut they certainly said it was not a problem - even partial sheets. The bran ch I was dealing with (over the phone only) was in Telford, PA.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Me ssage ----=0AFrom: ashontz =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.c om=0ASent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 3:32:12 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re: z" =0A=0AI'm going to have to ask again at mine. Must hav e been a couple of smacks working the counter last time I was in there.=0A =0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0Aplanecrazydld(at)yahoo.co wrote:=0A> my local bra nches were willing to bring in the sheet sizes needed if they could come in at their convenience.=0A> =0A> Dave Downey=0A> Harleysville (SE) PA=0A > 100 HP Corvair=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> ---=0A=0A=0A--------=0AAndy Shontz =0ACH601XL - Corvair=0Awww.mykitlog.com/ashontz=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this top ic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138122#1 ==========0A=0A=0A _________________________________ ___________________________________________________=0AFussy? Opinionated? I mpossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. h ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:03 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense the landing gear is eminently doable - and it is not that big of a deal. It requires a substantial amount of time and craftsmanship but it is a simple part to make. Now, if you want gundrilled brake lines, that is a different story - but the basic design is no problem.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysvil le (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Afterfxllc@aol.com" =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 3:54:06 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: R e: Zenith building expense=0A=0A=0AI need to clarify something from my prev ious post... on the spread sheet the gasket set it is priced at 199.00 I or dered one today for my 601 and it is actually 109.00. You might want to be careful getting an OEM gasket set because it might have the older style pus hrod tube o-rings and they leak and when you get your head gaskets make sur e to use the proper ones not the OEM. I also stand by my original posts tha t you cannot build a 601 xl with all the same parts you get from Zenith for 5,000 dollars there are too many parts you can't make yourself... Like the gear that is 600.00 or the canopy that is 600.00 the wheels tires and brak es, fuel selector and strobes I do think you can do it for between 8 and 9 K the rest is up to you as far as costs go I was simply saying the one's I build can't be done for 20,000. I to see the cost savings in scratch build ing and have started making templets of the originals to make them faster. And my next one will be plans built. If you would like to see the one's I am building now you can check out my website at www.project601xl.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ASee what -======================== ============0A=0A=0A =0A_______________________ _____________________________________________________________=0ANeed a vaca tion? Get great deals=0Ato amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.=0Ahttp://travel .yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:34 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response From: "n85ae" Inflicting my view? Sorry, I didn't realize my opinion conflicted with yours. I'll run right out and change it. By the way which side of politics do you stand on? Have a nice day, Jeff zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote: > ? > Jeff, would this be the wrong time to mention that my company demonstrator 601XL is a plans built with a Corvair engine? Not to mention that total cost is below $15,000 if you don't count my panel of which I went overboard. In addition, you added Jabiru to the aircraft motors, this is not a certified Aircraft motor and is mostly constructed using automotive parts. I have a few friends that have a 601 even cheaper, one gent has a standard panel 601XL ready for flight,( waiting for final inspection) he plans built it in a year and is under $12,000 without paint but everything else. > > Safety is construction methods and materials, not brand names! Although most plans built aircraft are not as nice as a kit built plane, I have seen some plans built planes I would be very happy to fly and some kit built that scarred me, also I have seen a few that won Grand Champion at the airshows. > > Jeff, you are inflicting your point of view, this comes from the path you have traveled over your life. IT is sound advice for those who have traveled similar routes. Nevertheless, it is not an opinion that is relevant to others who walked the line of life enjoying the creation of projects. Building a plane from plans is not hard; 10 years ago, Zenair only sold kits that were hand created, to say, each and every part was made in the plans builder fashion. THEREFORE, if a builder is willing to take the time to learn the proper methods, there is no reason in this world why he cannot build a plane just as airworthy as yours. > [img]cid:image001.jpg@01C805FD.347C1130[/img] > > > MOREOVER, if plans? building was such a hard and unachievable goal then why would Zenith support such a feature? Why would I have instructed a workshop, in the Zenith facility during the open house? > ? > > Hosted by Mark of Can-Zac Aviation (http://www.can-zacaviation.com) (Zenith Aircraft's Canadian representative), this workshop covered the skills, materials, tools and commitment required to accomplish the feat of plans-building your own aircraft, whether the STOL CH 701 (http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7drawings.html) or Zodiac XL (http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/drawings.html), for less than $10,000 (not counting the engine). Topics included: Reading and understanding the drawings and manuals, making rib form blocks, cutting the sheet metal rib blanks, deburring and polishing techniques, rib forming, tips, tricks and techniques, and more. > From the Zenith website, written by the President of Zenith. Being generous with a FWF of $5,000 for a Corvair installation and you have a plane for under $15,000. > Jeff, I in no way wish to insult you, Everything you have stated in the last few letters is true as it applies to yourself and other like minded people. I believe that you truly cannot see that it is possible for others to accomplish this feat; I also believe that you have certain beliefs in your decisions that would not allow you to accomplish this goal. However, others do not share your thought process, nor should they if it is not appropriate. > > In closing, installing a Jabiru engine in my 601XL would have been my first choice, along with the FWF. It really is a simple installation and very nice engine. Nevertheless, I am not a rich man, so when I weighed the options I installed the Corvair and have a safe plane, with a proven track record design. > > Yes Jeff, I do consider my 601XL a ?real? plane. Also I consider myself an average builder when I began it, plus my first plane I built from plans I considered myself a less then average builder, but very eager to learn as much as I could. > > I have said this before to many, if you are building to own and fly a brand new plane with superior performance over the old dilapidated rental fleets out there, buy a QBK kit! IF you are building to save a few dollars but get a flying plane then purchase a kit. IF your building to live an adventure of building a plane from a flat sheet and the flying at the end is just a new bonus then consider a plans built, it is a hell of an adventure. > > As for the NSI and dead stick landings, yup I can see that. I have always held the belief that if you take any motor designed at 70hp then hop It up to 105hp your in for a world of headaches. I like the Subaru engines, I have 5 in the shop, but they are a harder conversion and not for the average guy like the Corvair is. In addition, the average Corvair is outputting the hp is was designed for. Nevertheless, each of us must make that decision based on their own investigations, NO-ONE can tell us what to do in our own planes, but it is always good to hear the opinions, BOTH sides of the coin and pick which truths apply to our own personal capabilities and situations. > > As for Renting, Lets see my last rental, C-150 walk around. All fiberglass parts cracked. Duct tape holding things on, oil leaks from FWF, drips of fuel from wing tank bleeders. Paint in shameful faded condition. Windshield and side windows glazed, fuel gauges inaccurate, one non-functional, seats ripped and hard to move, carpet stank ! > > GOD I wish I only found this on one plane but it is all to typical of the rental fleet out there. I show my list of real problems I would NOT accept in my own plane and get the response that it has just had a fresh annual a month or two ago and is all good till next year. IT may fly but I feel far safer behind the plane I built and did not have to use duct tape to keep parts on. > > Moreover, don?t forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty woman up for her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully someone has bragged over this, I have been married for over 20 years and forfeited this right. > ? > Mark Townsend > Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. > president@can-zacaviation.com > www.can-zacaviation.com > > > -- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138138#138138 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:41 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense Making the main gear don't seem difficult it is the bending that would worry me. Zenith had a problem with them cracking at the bends not sure what that was about. I would just hate to buy that chunk of alum. and then mess it up bending it. In a message dated 10/4/2007 4:38:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, planecrazydld@yahoo.com writes: the landing gear is eminently doable - and it is not that big of a deal. It requires a substantial amount of time and craftsmanship but it is a simple part to make. Now, if you want gundrilled brake lines, that is a different story - but the basic design is no problem. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:41 PM PST US From: "Graeme" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 If two identical wings are made I doubt the condition you describe should be called heavy left wing. Your aircraft is rolling to the Left! If the two wings are identical the weight of the pilot in the Lh side will cause roll to the left. Other things to check is the wing incedance is correct over the entire length of both wings. If this ok you should be able to place a trim tab on Aileron to balance controls for the particular configoration most commonly flown ( 1 person, two person) Roll to the left corrected by lifting Lh wing if tab placed on lh aileron must be bent up (pushes down Lh aileron) Graeme Bell CH 701 ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Maxson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 11:35 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 My Corvair spins the "wrong way", and I have the slight left wing heavy thing, so it's not prop-wash. I usually just fill the right tank only or burn fuel from the left tank first. I find leaning my knee on the stick helps. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > From: craig@craigandjean.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 > Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:44:01 -0600 > > > > Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a counter-clockwise-rotating > prop? It would be fun to know. > > Corvairs spin the "other" way. > > -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Boo! Scare away worms, re.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews' target='_new'>Try now! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 4/10/2007 5:03 PM ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:08 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 Thanks, Paul. Now I don't have to move my trim tab to the other aileron!!! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Maxson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:35 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 My Corvair spins the "wrong way", and I have the slight left wing heavy thing, so it's not prop-wash. I usually just fill the right tank only or burn fuel from the left tank first. I find leaning my knee on the stick helps. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > From: craig@craigandjean.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 > Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:44:01 -0600 > > > > Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a counter-clockwise-rotating > prop? It would be fun to know. > > Corvairs spin the "other" way. > > -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Boo! Scare away worms, re.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews' target='_new'>Try now! ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:44 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Kit vs plans and costs. All- Once again, I agree with a previous post. There's no way you can paint "Cost" using the same brush. Location and the personal risk you're willing to accept has a tremendous effect. Location? I saw a post that quoted $300 for nitriding and threading the safety shaft. I farmed everything out and it cost less than $200.00. Of course, I live 17 miles away from the tool+die capital of the world. The nitriding cost is dependent on freight charges. On the other hand, you have to consider what risk you're willing to accept. WW, for all his business related faults, has done one hell of a lot of testing on different Corvair builds. Are you going to move your nose strut back 1' because it looks better? CH put it there for a carefully calculated reason. If WW recommended reworked jugs from a specified source, I'd take his advice. Save money by homebuilding non-critical components such as the top plate (If you can!). Saying, 'These jugs are good enough with a quick hone" is more risk than I want to take. Sometimes, you get what you pay for. Peace of mind. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: ZodieRocket To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:38 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Kit vs plans and costs. Alas, the temptation we all seem to have is to think our own analysis is the only one that really counts and should be applied to all other builders. I think the truth is each builder and each airplane built is unique. We can all try to help each other complete our projects even if we can't agree on the reasons and issues each of us must consider. Paul XL fuselage Very eloquently put Paul, I agree fully, in my last post I tried to make the same point, but it ended up a little long winded, and still missed the point with the finesse your one paragraph has. Mark Do not archive 10/2/2007 6:43 PM ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:40 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense There is no mystery in bending 6061T - or any other alloy and temper for th at matter - I am very surprised that they had issues as CH is usually a sti ckler for that kind of detail. All the information is very old and very muc h public domain.=0A =0ADave Downey=0A Harleysville (SE) PA=0A 100 HP Corv air=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Afterfxllc@aol.com" =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 5:20:37 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AMaking the main gear don't seem difficult it is the b ending that would =0Aworry me. Zenith had a problem with them cracking at t he bends not sure what =0Athat was about. I would just hate to buy that chu nk of alum. and then mess it up =0Abending it.=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0AIn a message dated 10/4/2007 4:38:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =0Aplanecraz ydld@yahoo.com writes:=0A=0Athe landing gear is eminently doable - and it i s not that big of a =0A deal. It requires a substantial amount of time and craftsmanship but it is a =0A simple part to make. Now, if you want gundr illed brake lines, that is a =0A different story - but the basic design is no =0Aproblem.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0ASee what's new="_blank">Make A -======================== ============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________ ___________________________________________________________________________ _=0ATake the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mai l, news, photos & more. =0Ahttp://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:22 PM PST US From: "Dave Thompson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith building expense Andy, What is your source for the "SCAT CHEVY CAST CRANKSHAFTS" for Corvair? I'd like to read more about them. Question: Can a nitride hardened crank be drilled and tapped for WW's safety shaft or is it too hard? I thought you had to modify the crank before you have it nitrided. I don't know about those things. Dave Thompson ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:55 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response From: "ashontz" :P LOL Mark, just let him spend too much. Apparently it's good for the economy, but not necessarily good for the individual. LOL n85ae wrote: > Inflicting my view? Sorry, I didn't realize my opinion conflicted with yours. > I'll run right out and change it. By the way which side of politics do you > stand on? > > Have a nice day, > > Jeff > > > > > > > zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote: > > ? > > Jeff, would this be the wrong time to mention that my company demonstrator 601XL is a plans built with a Corvair engine? Not to mention that total cost is below $15,000 if you don't count my panel of which I went overboard. In addition, you added Jabiru to the aircraft motors, this is not a certified Aircraft motor and is mostly constructed using automotive parts. I have a few friends that have a 601 even cheaper, one gent has a standard panel 601XL ready for flight,( waiting for final inspection) he plans built it in a year and is under $12,000 without paint but everything else. > > > > Safety is construction methods and materials, not brand names! Although most plans built aircraft are not as nice as a kit built plane, I have seen some plans built planes I would be very happy to fly and some kit built that scarred me, also I have seen a few that won Grand Champion at the airshows. > > > > Jeff, you are inflicting your point of view, this comes from the path you have traveled over your life. IT is sound advice for those who have traveled similar routes. Nevertheless, it is not an opinion that is relevant to others who walked the line of life enjoying the creation of projects. Building a plane from plans is not hard; 10 years ago, Zenair only sold kits that were hand created, to say, each and every part was made in the plans builder fashion. THEREFORE, if a builder is willing to take the time to learn the proper methods, there is no reason in this world why he cannot build a plane just as airworthy as yours. > > [img]cid:image001.jpg@01C805FD.347C1130[/img] > > > > > > MOREOVER, if plans? building was such a hard and unachievable goal then why would Zenith support such a feature? Why would I have instructed a workshop, in the Zenith facility during the open house? > > ? > > > > Hosted by Mark of Can-Zac Aviation (http://www.can-zacaviation.com) (Zenith Aircraft's Canadian representative), this workshop covered the skills, materials, tools and commitment required to accomplish the feat of plans-building your own aircraft, whether the STOL CH 701 (http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7drawings.html) or Zodiac XL (http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/drawings.html), for less than $10,000 (not counting the engine). Topics included: Reading and understanding the drawings and manuals, making rib form blocks, cutting the sheet metal rib blanks, deburring and polishing techniques, rib forming, tips, tricks and techniques, and more. > > From the Zenith website, written by the President of Zenith. Being generous with a FWF of $5,000 for a Corvair installation and you have a plane for under $15,000. > > Jeff, I in no way wish to insult you, Everything you have stated in the last few letters is true as it applies to yourself and other like minded people. I believe that you truly cannot see that it is possible for others to accomplish this feat; I also believe that you have certain beliefs in your decisions that would not allow you to accomplish this goal. However, others do not share your thought process, nor should they if it is not appropriate. > > > > In closing, installing a Jabiru engine in my 601XL would have been my first choice, along with the FWF. It really is a simple installation and very nice engine. Nevertheless, I am not a rich man, so when I weighed the options I installed the Corvair and have a safe plane, with a proven track record design. > > > > Yes Jeff, I do consider my 601XL a ?real? plane. Also I consider myself an average builder when I began it, plus my first plane I built from plans I considered myself a less then average builder, but very eager to learn as much as I could. > > > > I have said this before to many, if you are building to own and fly a brand new plane with superior performance over the old dilapidated rental fleets out there, buy a QBK kit! IF you are building to save a few dollars but get a flying plane then purchase a kit. IF your building to live an adventure of building a plane from a flat sheet and the flying at the end is just a new bonus then consider a plans built, it is a hell of an adventure. > > > > As for the NSI and dead stick landings, yup I can see that. I have always held the belief that if you take any motor designed at 70hp then hop It up to 105hp your in for a world of headaches. I like the Subaru engines, I have 5 in the shop, but they are a harder conversion and not for the average guy like the Corvair is. In addition, the average Corvair is outputting the hp is was designed for. Nevertheless, each of us must make that decision based on their own investigations, NO-ONE can tell us what to do in our own planes, but it is always good to hear the opinions, BOTH sides of the coin and pick which truths apply to our own personal capabilities and situations. > > > > As for Renting, Lets see my last rental, C-150 walk around. All fiberglass parts cracked. Duct tape holding things on, oil leaks from FWF, drips of fuel from wing tank bleeders. Paint in shameful faded condition. Windshield and side windows glazed, fuel gauges inaccurate, one non-functional, seats ripped and hard to move, carpet stank ! > > > > GOD I wish I only found this on one plane but it is all to typical of the rental fleet out there. I show my list of real problems I would NOT accept in my own plane and get the response that it has just had a fresh annual a month or two ago and is all good till next year. IT may fly but I feel far safer behind the plane I built and did not have to use duct tape to keep parts on. > > > > Moreover, don?t forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty woman up for her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully someone has bragged over this, I have been married for over 20 years and forfeited this right. > > ? > > Mark Townsend > > Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. > > president@can-zacaviation.com > > www.can-zacaviation.com > > > > > > -- > -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138165#138165 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:02 PM PST US From: CHETKRU@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Crack....... Hi Folks, looking for a solution to repair a hairline crack in my canopy, it is not in a line of sight area and if the repair is not clear it will not be a problem, I just want to seal the break and keep it from growing. I have already stop drilled the area. Any thoughts or tips will be greatly appreciated, such as brands of epoxy or glue that might work. Chet Kruleski 601XL Las Vegas, NV ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:23 PM PST US From: "Dave Thompson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sorry Guys it is another long winded responseZenith building expense "Moreover, don't forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty woman up for her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully someone has bragged over this, I have been married for over 20 years and forfeited this right." Mark, I've met your wife, She's a pretty woman! :) I like the other stuff you wrote. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:02 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith building expense I'd like to read about anyone who has had the guts to fly behind one. Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Thompson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith building expense Andy, What is your source for the "SCAT CHEVY CAST CRANKSHAFTS" for Corvair? I'd like to read more about them. Dave Thompson ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:41 PM PST US From: GeorgeM Subject: Zenith-List: Cast or forged? Is cast crank good enough for airplane motor? Or should I stick fo forged one? GeorgeM ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Thompson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith building expense Andy, What is your source for the "SCAT CHEVY CAST CRANKSHAFTS" for Corvair? I'd like to read more about them. Question: Can a nitride hardened crank be drilled and tapped for WW's safety shaft or is it too hard? I thought you had to modify the crank before you have it nitrided. I don't know about those things. Dave Thompson ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:53 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Crack....... Go to your plastics supply company... they make a solvent that will bond the crack I forgot the name of it but I'm sure if you tell them what you are needing they will help you out. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:04 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left All the input on the "Heavy Wing" has been great ,and I'am sure it 's been beat to death.As Columbo says "Just One More Thing" Does any one have a pict. of one on a plane? Is .025 thick enough ? About how long and how wide,and how much is is hanging off the wing? Pop rivited? I just want to get it right Thanks again to you all !! Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:38 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense Concerning the landing gear, does any one , like Grove, manufacture them for the 601xl taildragger conversion. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Downey To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense the landing gear is eminently doable - and it is not that big of a deal. It requires a substantial amount of time and craftsmanship but it is a simple part to make. Now, if you want gundrilled brake lines, that is a different story - but the basic design is no problem. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair ----- Original Message ---- From: "Afterfxllc@aol.com" To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 3:54:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense I need to clarify something from my previous post... on the spread sheet the gasket set it is priced at 199.00 I ordered one today for my 601 and it is actually 109.00. You might want to be careful getting an OEM gasket set because it might have the older style pushrod tube o-rings and they leak and when you get your head gaskets make sure to use the proper ones not the OEM. I also stand by my original posts that you cannot build a 601 xl with all the same parts you get from Zenith for 5,000 dollars there are too many parts you can't make yourself... Like the gear that is 600.00 or the canopy that is 600.00 the wheels tires and brakes, fuel selector and strobes I do think you can do it for between 8 and 9 K the rest is up to you as far as costs go I was simply saying the one's I build can't be done for 20,000. I to see the cost savings in scratch building and have started making templets of the originals to make them faster. And my next one will be plans built. If you would like to see the one's I am building now you can check out my website at www.project601xl.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's new at AOL.com and . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:30 PM PST US From: Terry Fogelson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Crack....... What we did in our helicopters when they would develop a crack was to stop drill at both ends and then glue a piece overtop the cracked area. Terry --- CHETKRU@aol.com wrote: > Hi Folks, looking for a solution to repair a > hairline crack in my canopy, it > is not in a line of sight area and if the repair is > not clear it will not be > a problem, I just want to seal the break and keep it > from growing. I have > already stop drilled the area. Any thoughts or tips > will be greatly > appreciated, such as brands of epoxy or glue that > might work. > > Chet Kruleski > 601XL > Las Vegas, NV > > > > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:12 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy Crack....... That's what I did on 633Z. See: http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/seattle_looking_south.jpg I barely got the crack stop drilled in time to avoid a 2 piece canopy. I took the canopy to a plastics shop and was told that the crack could not be repaired - seems like it depends on who you talk to. So I glued plastic over it. Fortunately, the crack is easy to forget in flight. It's been that way since 2003. I caused the additional hairline cracks by clamping the patch between plywood scraps while it was drying. Turns out that is a bad thing to do. The canopy has complex curves and is stressed. Don't clamp it and force it flat. I used 'Craftics #33' glue, for acrylic, lucite + plexiglas. The glue did cause the patch to become opaque. Not a problem in my application. But not what I wanted either. Joe E @ BFI http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/ On Thu, 4 Oct 2007, Terry Fogelson wrote: > > What we did in our helicopters when they would develop > a crack was to stop drill at both ends and then glue a > piece overtop the cracked area. > > Terry > --- CHETKRU@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Folks, looking for a solution to repair a > > hairline crack in my canopy, it > > is not in a line of sight area and if the repair is > > not clear it will not be > > a problem, I just want to seal the break and keep it > > from growing. I have > > already stop drilled the area. Any thoughts or tips > > will be greatly > > appreciated, such as brands of epoxy or glue that > > might work. > > > > Chet Kruleski > > 601XL > > Las Vegas, NV > > > > do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.