Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:38 AM - Re: CH701 Usable Fuel (jetboy)
2. 04:10 AM - Re: Getting all the little Chips out (Debo Cox)
3. 04:43 AM - Re: Getting all the little Chips out (David Downey)
4. 04:45 AM - Re: Getting all the little Chips out (David Downey)
5. 05:25 AM - Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? (Juan Vega)
6. 05:49 AM - Re: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? (Jaybannist@cs.com)
7. 06:28 AM - Re: TIME OUT, please (John M. Goodings)
8. 07:20 AM - Re: heavy left wing/roll to left (Clyde Barcus)
9. 10:09 AM - Re: Getting all the little Chips out (William Dominguez)
10. 04:47 PM - Re: heavy left wing/roll to left (robert stone)
11. 04:55 PM - In lite of the recent price discussion...CH 701 and Corvair (kmccune)
12. 04:55 PM - 601 with O-235 (Woody sulloway)
13. 05:19 PM - Re: TIME OUT, please!.. And the Winner Is... (Juan Vega)
14. 06:04 PM - Re: 601 with O-235 (passpat@aol.com)
15. 07:36 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
16. 08:42 PM - Re: Getting all the little Chips out (PatrickW)
17. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: Zenith building expense (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
18. 09:08 PM - Re: In lite of the recent price discussion...CH 701 and Corvair (John Bolding)
19. 09:53 PM - Re: 601 with O-235 (MaxNr@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Usable Fuel |
I calibrated my dipstick for 'drainable fuel' so when I dip the tanks I know
how much fuel is available in a level flight attitude.
For the CZAW tanks that works out about 40 litres / side with 2.5 litres undrainable
- total rating for these tanks was 85 litres.
As with most aircraft, Cessna 150 for example, there must be an additional amount
of fuel available to slosh about and still maintain safe flight and the proper
term for this may well be 'unuseable fuel'
For the CZAW tanks I rate that amount as 10 litres / side.
I have at times unported a tank with 15 litres when in a steep descent, resulting
in power loss of 10 - 30 seconds, so the problem is real. I have not had any
problems in level or climbing flight but the drill is to feed off a better tank
or both if the level is low.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138451#138451
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Getting all the little Chips out |
Hey guys,
Maybe it's just me, and that's why it takes me so long to complete anything,
but my building sequence takes care of the chip problem.
Assemble, Drill, Disassemble, Deburr and Corrosion Protect, Re-assemble
By treating each part like it's a piece of jewelery and cleaning it thoroughly
before re-assembly, I don't have (and wouldn't allow if I could absolutely help
it) chip one in my airplane. I've also heard that there are DAR's out there
that are very picky about the chip thing, and in my opinion anything that can
get between two surfaces and act as a wedge with the proper amount of vibration
is not good.
I'm not using Cortec for the very reason that it's sticky and will hold chips
in place. Now bear in mind that that's my choice, so anyone's opinion out there
isn't going to change my mind, because I'm an adult and capable of making my
own choices and decisions. *grin*
Debo Cox
Scratch-built XL/Corvair
Nags Head, NC
Wings basically half finished
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Getting all the little Chips out |
whether it is purchased or home made be certain to polish all edges of the
chaser to a fine finish with fully radiused edges. Otherwise the cure can b
e worse than the illness!=0A =0ADave Downey=0A Harleysville (SE) PA=0A 10
0 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Terry Fogelson
<t_fogelson@yahoo.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, Octo
ber 5, 2007 11:11:45 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting all the little
n@yahoo.com>=0A=0AHere is a tool available commercially, but I always=0Amad
e mine out of aluminum.=0A=0ATerry=0A=0Ahttp://www.averytools.com/pc-930-75
-chip-chasers.aspx=0A--- PatrickW <pwhoyt@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0A> --> Zeni
th-List message posted by: "PatrickW"=0A> <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>=0A> =0A> How a
re you guys getting all the little aluminum=0A> chips & bits out...?=0A>
=0A> Everywhere where a curved radius meets a flat spot=0A> is a place for
a chip to hide. Like between wing=0A> ribs and wing skins; or between lowe
r spar caps and=0A> bottom wing skins...=0A> =0A> They seem stick to cortec
, even long after it's=0A> dried. Maybe it's a static electricity sticking
=0A> type of thing here?=0A> =0A> I've got most of them out by running a va
cuum=0A> cleaner, blowing with compressed air, "flossing"=0A> with a toothp
ick, vacuuming some more.=0A> =0A> But you can't get them all. =0A> =0A> W
hat are you guys doing? Am I being too much of a=0A> perfectionist here?
=0A> =0A> Thanks,=0A> =0A> Pat=0A> XL/Corvair=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read
this topic online here:=0A> =0A>=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ph
p?p=138373#138373=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>=0A> browse=0A> S
ubscriptions page,=0A> FAQ,=0A> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-L
=======================0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A _____________________________________________
_______________________________________=0ACheck out the hottest 2008 models
today at Yahoo! Autos.=0Ahttp://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Getting all the little Chips out |
just like all the Big Boys!=0A =0ADave Downey=0A Harleysville (SE) PA=0A
100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Debo Cox <sky
_ranger161@yahoo.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, Oct
ober 6, 2007 7:09:15 AM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting all the little
Chips out=0A=0AHey guys,=0A =0A Maybe it's just me, and that's why it ta
kes me so long to complete anything, but my building sequence takes care of
the chip problem.=0A =0A Assemble, Drill, Disassemble, Deburr and Corro
sion Protect, Re-assemble=0A =0A By treating each part like it's a piece
of jewelery and cleaning it thoroughly before re-assembly, I don't have (a
nd wouldn't allow if I could absolutely help it) chip one in my airplane. I
've also heard that there are DAR's out there that are very picky about the
chip thing, and in my opinion anything that can get between two surfaces a
nd act as a wedge with the proper amount of vibration is not good.=0A =0A
I'm not using Cortec for the very reason that it's sticky and will hold c
hips in place. Now bear in mind that that's my choice, so anyone's opinion
out there isn't going to change my mind, because I'm an adult and capable o
f making=0A my own choices and decisions. *grin*=0A =0A Debo Cox=0A Scr
atch-built XL/Corvair=0A Nags Head, NC=0A Wings basically half finished
=============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A_____
___________________________________________________________________________
____=0APinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. =0Ahttp://sear
chmarketing.yahoo.com/
Message 5
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| Subject: | 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
i see what you are saying now, can you send me a picture stadning a little farther
back so I can see the entire flap and aileron set up?
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jaybannist@cs.com
>Sent: Oct 3, 2007 2:51 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...?
>
>Juan,
>
>Actually, I did follow the plans and specs very carefully. It turns out that
the skins were not drilled correctly. See photos. The first one shows the alignment
if I were to get the proper edge distance on the aileron skin. The second
shows dots where the rivet holes in the aileron skin would have to be if
I aligned the trailing edge with the flap. At the tip, I could get the proper
overlap, but I suspect that "skewed" the aileron, somewhat. Therefore, I went
with the "real" hinges.
>
>Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
>Do not archive
>
>
>Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>if you follow the plans specs, they should align well. I am proud to say mine
came out trimmed out. aileron and flap align nice. Check the flap stop is
4 to 5mm from trail edge.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Jaybannist@cs.com
>>>Sent: Oct 2, 2007 10:10 PM
>>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...?
>>>
>>>
>>>Mine did not line up, not by a long shot. It was so far off (probably 20mm)
the hingeless attachment was not possible. I got ZAC to send me wide hinges
and and a doubler, and converted to hinged ailerons.
>>>
>>>Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
>>>
>>>
>>>"PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Are the trailing edges of the Aileron and the Flap aligned with one another
when both are in the "neutral" position...?
>>>>
>>>>I'm getting ready to drill the hingeless ailerons on my 601XL, and I've also
got my flaps sitting there next to them, just to give it an "eyeball" check.
>>>>
>>>>The measurements seem to check, but it just doesn't look right....
>>>>
>>>>Anybody with a completed wing that can give me a sanity check on the measurement
between the trailing edge rivet line on the wing and the leading edge rivet
line on the aileron?
>>>>
>>>>Is your entire trailing edge "one smooth line" across the ailerons and flaps...?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>Patrick
>>>>XL/Corvair
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137730#137730
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 6
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| Subject: | 601XL - Aileron/Flap Trailing Edge Alignment...? |
Juan,
The only other photos I have are closer, since I was trying to show ZAC the problem.
Any photos I have of the the whole area show the regular hinge in place.
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
Do not archive
Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>i see what you are saying now, can you send me a picture stadning a little farther
back so I can see the entire flap and aileron set up?
>
>Juan
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: TIME OUT, please |
I appreciate Zed Smith's "I spent A Ton Of Money And I Have The Receipts
To Prove It". Would you believe $71,341.86 up until we first flew on 6
October, 2003? That's in Canadian dollars. Of course, we have spent MUCH
more since that time. My son insists that it is extremely important NEVER
to calculate the cost per hour to build or to fly a homebuilt aircraft:
"Pops, just don't go there!" For certain, Do Not Archive.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R 912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: heavy left wing/roll to left |
I flew with Bob in his plane a few weeks ago, he trimmed it up to the
point it was stable hands off. That was the third 601XL I have flown in,
one of them had no trim and it was uncomfortable to fly. Personally, I
wouldn't build one without the Zenith electric trim, in my opinion, it
is well worth it.
Clyde Barcus
601 XL, Continental Powered
Wings, Tail & Engine Complete
Working on Fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: robert stone
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left
Members,
When I had my ZodiacXL built I was sure that I would need wing
trim so I ordered it to be installed. This aircraft is so small and
light that just the pilot if he is a big guy will cause the left wing to
be low. Also a pasenger who will be on the right side of the cg will
sometimes cause the right wing to dip so the only way to insure that you
fly level no matter heavy pasenger, or what ever, if you have a trim tab
on one of the wings, this can be corrected. I would advise all builders
to install wing trim so you have a way to adjust in flight.
Bob Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left
Before you rivet it to anything make a small tab and use aluminum
tape to hold it in place then keep tweaking it untill you have the size
and angle you need then rivet it on. It doesn't take a big tab try not
to go overboard on your first try. Look at some rudder tabs and start
there.
In a message dated 10/5/2007 10:42:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
amyvega2005@earthlink.net writes:
All the input on the "Heavy Wing" has been great ,and I'am sure it
's been beat to death.As Columbo says "Just One More Thing" Does any
one have a pict. of one on a plane? Is .025 thick enough ? About how
long and how wide,and how much is is hanging off the wing? Pop rivited?
I just want to get it right Thanks again to you all !!
Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Getting all the little Chips out |
I'm using cortec too. I avoid this problem by doing all the drilling, trimming
and deburring on the complete subassembly before I start to apply the cortec.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida
How are you guys getting all the little aluminum chips & bits out...?
Everywhere where a curved radius meets a flat spot is a place for a chip to hide.
Like between wing ribs and wing skins; or between lower spar caps and bottom
wing skins...
They seem stick to cortec, even long after it's dried. Maybe it's a static electricity
sticking type of thing here?
I've got most of them out by running a vacuum cleaner, blowing with compressed
air, "flossing" with a toothpick, vacuuming some more.
But you can't get them all.
What are you guys doing? Am I being too much of a perfectionist here?
Thanks,
Pat
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138373#138373
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: heavy left wing/roll to left |
Hay Clyde,
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Bob Yes, I am lurking somewhere on the net all the time.
----- Original Message -----
From: Clyde Barcus
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left
I flew with Bob in his plane a few weeks ago, he trimmed it up to the
point it was stable hands off. That was the third 601XL I have flown in,
one of them had no trim and it was uncomfortable to fly. Personally, I
wouldn't build one without the Zenith electric trim, in my opinion, it
is well worth it.
Clyde Barcus
601 XL, Continental Powered
Wings, Tail & Engine Complete
Working on Fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: robert stone
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left
Members,
When I had my ZodiacXL built I was sure that I would need wing
trim so I ordered it to be installed. This aircraft is so small and
light that just the pilot if he is a big guy will cause the left wing to
be low. Also a pasenger who will be on the right side of the cg will
sometimes cause the right wing to dip so the only way to insure that you
fly level no matter heavy pasenger, or what ever, if you have a trim tab
on one of the wings, this can be corrected. I would advise all builders
to install wing trim so you have a way to adjust in flight.
Bob Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left
Before you rivet it to anything make a small tab and use aluminum
tape to hold it in place then keep tweaking it untill you have the size
and angle you need then rivet it on. It doesn't take a big tab try not
to go overboard on your first try. Look at some rudder tabs and start
there.
In a message dated 10/5/2007 10:42:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
amyvega2005@earthlink.net writes:
All the input on the "Heavy Wing" has been great ,and I'am sure
it 's been beat to death.As Columbo says "Just One More Thing" Does any
one have a pict. of one on a plane? Is .025 thick enough ? About how
long and how wide,and how much is is hanging off the wing? Pop rivited?
I just want to get it right Thanks again to you all !!
Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | In lite of the recent price discussion...CH 701 and Corvair |
OK the corvair weighs around 230lbs with electric starting. Zenith states 200lbs
for engine. Is this a weight and balance issue or a firewall/airframe stress
issue? Or something else that I have not considered? I can't spend 16k on an
engine. The VW redive looks good, and the water cooled head is even better. But
I can't get an answer out of the G**** P*****s as to the performance of the
water colling.
I know that there are 701s with Corvair engine out there. Can you guys chime in?
Thanks
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138529#138529
Message 12
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|
Anybody out there have experience with the 601 XL with an O-235 in it?
If so what are your impressions? I know the usefull load is less and the
duration shorter, what else do I need to know.
Regards
Woody
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: TIME OUT, please!.. And the Winner Is... |
Will,
ha I love it!. will you be seling the kit at Oshkosh?
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Oct 5, 2007 12:59 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: TIME OUT, please!.. And the Winner Is...
>
>The winner for the cheapest safest airplane you can build for under $100 is:
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/manahanwill/63392022/
>
>
>William Dominguez
>Zodiac 601XL Plans
>Miami, Florida
>
>do not archive
>
>
>Okay, Guys, the judges are still sifting through the ballots but it does look
like we have a winner in the "Homebuilt Airplane For Less Than $100" contest.
>
>That said, can we now move on to the second phase?
>
>This will be called "I Spent A Ton Of Money And I Have The Receipts To Prove It"
>
>Rules include owning at least two of every tool in the Snap On & Sears catalogs,
a two-story 100 x 100 climate-controlled hangar with heated pool and exercise
room, machine shop, on-staff engineer, T-shirts from the last AOPA Antartic
Fly-in, private 5000-foot paved & lighted runway with navaids, and at least one
photo of a properly-installed rivet.
>
>Quick-builds are excluded; you must have paid a third party to accomplish every
task, including builder's log entries. Finished product must have won five
or more ribbons at the American Kennel Club show....any catagory. Extra points
awarded for liberal use of balsa and/or titanium. Magnesium exhaust systems
qualify for Veteran's Preference, or at least lunch with Hillary.
>
>Please include "do not archive" with the flames, no afterburners on taxiway.
>
>Best regards and a great Friday to all,
>
>Zed/701/R912/90+%/had to order some extra ells from ZAC
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 601 with O-235 |
I think its a great combo what little weight you lose is well made up for in other
area's
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Woody sulloway <sulloway@clis.com>
Sent: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 7:50 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 with O-235
Anybody out there have experience with the 601 XL with an O-235 in it?
?
If so what are your impressions? I know the usefull load is less and the duration
shorter, what else do I need to know.
?
Regards
Woody
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
In a message dated 10/3/2007 1:33:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
No, those numbers are not way off. They're right on the money. I have spent
$1,200 - $1,300 to build a rudder, the elevator, the stabilizer, and the left
wing not including the ailerons including rivets from Zenith. Nothing unsafe
about it. The parts are to spec per the plans. Just off the top of my head,
I'd say I've used about 7 sheets of 4 x 12 6061-T6 in various thinknesses. A
sheet from Aircraft spruce is about $90. So right there we're looking at
about $650 for 85% of the materials required for those parts. Add in $350 for
my
8' bending brake and we're up to $1,600 - $1,700.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Getting all the little Chips out |
So how are you guys doing your nose skins and upper skins on your wings...?
I do the "assemble, drill, disassemble, deburr, cortec, re-assemble" process as
well, but in many cases you have to continue by building upon a portion of the
structure that's already completed.
I think the masking tape idea sounds like the best "real world" solution so far.
Patrick
XL/Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138569#138569
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith building expense |
I don't know how that last message got sent but I didn't mean to send
it........
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: In lite of the recent price discussion...CH 701 and Corvair |
Read the archives ,everything you wish to know on the 701/vair subject
is in there. Or if you still have trouble finding the info you need
send me a note off list, I'm not going to stir the pot again on this
subject. John
----- Original Message -----
From: kmccune
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:54 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: In lite of the recent price discussion...CH 701
and Corvair
OK the corvair weighs around 230lbs with electric starting. Zenith
states 200lbs for engine. Is this a weight and balance issue or a
firewall/airframe stress issue? Or something else that I have not
considered? I can't spend 16k on an engine. The VW redive looks good,
and the water cooled head is even better. But I can't get an answer out
of the G**** P*****s as to the performance of the water colling.
I know that there are 701s with Corvair engine out there. Can you guys
chime in?
Thanks
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138529#138529
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601 with O-235 |
Couldn't tell you how it flies, still building. I chose the Lyc because I
happened to have one on hand along with a McCaully prop. Other wise my next
choice would be the Corvair first, the Jab 3300 next, then the Cont O-200. My
engine/prop (O235 C2C and 71/54) came from a Grumman American AA-1, so that will
make the test program simpler. I may re-engine later. The engine has a good
reputation. The O-235 was certified in 1940. The 235 C2C has a 6.75:1 compression
ratio and has a 2400 HR TBO. The latest Lyc Operators Manual gives the weight
as 244 with the old heavy starter and generator. Rated power is 115 at 2800.
Grumman American dialed it back to 108/2600 for noise certification. No Max
Continuos Power (MCP) listed. Only 5 minute limits are for CHT. It will run on
cheap booze (for a little while). Some XL builders are using the O-290 at about
the same size & weight.
The 601 will do better than a GA AA-1 because it has 3 feet more span, more
wing area and has a 200lb lighter empty weight. Never flown one. To compare
apples to oranges, see FAA home page and look up Type Certificate Data Sheet
(TCDS) "A11EA" for the AA1. Also compare at:
http://www.grumman.net/cgrcc/aa1compare.html
They kind of look alike from a distance.
Bob from Pace, FL
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