---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/11/07: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:44 AM - Re: Hirth Engine (secatur) 2. 02:48 AM - Re: Re: Hirth Engine (martyn@flight.co.za) 3. 04:10 AM - Re: Re: Open Hangar day Zenith Factory (Juan Vega) 4. 04:42 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Access (Bob Unternaehrer) 5. 06:07 AM - Re: Re: Hirth Engine (Graeme Bell) 6. 07:01 AM - Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (n85ae) 7. 07:27 AM - Re; Wing Spars Done! Bolts? (Kafka, Jeff) 8. 07:33 AM - Re: Like to see a 601 HD or XL (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 9. 09:02 AM - Re: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork) (tigermiller) 10. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (Southern Reflections) 11. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork) (Debo Cox) 12. 01:55 PM - Wings & Wheels (Randy Stout) 13. 02:04 PM - New style flap actuator (carlos) 14. 02:14 PM - Re: Wings & Wheels (Jaybannist@cs.com) 15. 02:27 PM - Re: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (n801bh@netzero.com) 16. 03:14 PM - Re: New style flap actuator (Paul Mulwitz) 17. 03:47 PM - 701 with Jab 3300 (Stanley Challgren) 18. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (Southern Reflections) 19. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (Joemotis@aol.com) 20. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (Dan) 21. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (Southern Reflections) 22. 05:54 PM - Re: Wings & Wheels now restricted area (John Bolding) 23. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (Joemotis@aol.com) 24. 06:07 PM - 701 welded kit parts (kmccune) 25. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (Bob Unternaehrer) 26. 06:09 PM - Re: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork) (kmccune) 27. 06:14 PM - Re: 701 welded kit parts (RClaggf4u@aol.com) 28. 06:21 PM - Re: 701 welded kit parts (Paul Mulwitz) 29. 07:16 PM - Re: 701 welded kit parts (kmccune) 30. 07:28 PM - Re: 701 welded kit parts (kmccune) 31. 07:44 PM - Re: New style flap actuator (Craig Payne) 32. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (Southern Reflections) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hirth Engine From: "secatur" Gee Chris, Please don't tell the hundreds of people (myself included!) that the Subaru EA-81 is too heavy for our successful 701 aircraft ! Also please inform me when next you see a 912 for $10k ! I'll buy it sight unseen and make a handsome profit on the same day resale! Steve from Perth Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139351#139351 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/06_169.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Hirth Engine From: martyn@flight.co.za Steve, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rotax-engine-100hp-912-ULS3_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26437QQihZ016QQitemZ260168217587QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW The bid started at $9000 USD its up to $11400 last time I checked. There you go! Send some of the profit my way , but I think the shipping costs will chew it all up. I have spoken to this chap, and he is legit. He had 3, sold 2, this is the last one. HIRTH RULES !!! :) Do not archive > > Gee Chris, Please don't tell the hundreds of people (myself included!) > that the Subaru EA-81 is too heavy for our successful 701 aircraft ! > Also please inform me when next you see a 912 for $10k ! I'll buy it sight > unseen and make a handsome profit on the same day resale! > Steve from Perth > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139351#139351 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/06_169.jpg > > Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:18 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Open Hangar day Zenith Factory they run hirths on some trikes in Zephyrhills. they allways complain about getting parts and constant upkeep. -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Mulwitz >Sent: Oct 10, 2007 5:06 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Open Hangar day Zenith Factory > > >Hi Martyn, > >That HIrth engine does sound too good to be true. > >This is the first I've heard of it, so I can't add to the information >pool. I would like to ask you to relay any information you get back >to this group, though. The weight and horsepower sound ideal for the >601 and perhaps even a little on the high power side for the 701. > >It would be great if we had another engine to add to the fray. > >Paul >XL, fuselage, Jabiru 3300 >do not archive > > >At 10:37 PM 10/9/2007, you wrote: >> >>Good Day all, >> >>I have gone through the archives and I have not found anything really >>conclusive regarding Hirth powerplants as a viable alternative. >> >>The 3 cylinder 100 HP fuel injected 2 stroke, weighing in at 45kg's >>(99lb's) seems too good to be true. >> >>Anybody out there that runs a Hirth or knows of someone who has one. I'd >>really like to get their feedback regarding these engines. >> >>Blue Skies everyone, >> >>Martyn Ward >>CH701 ZU-DPL >> >>Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:56 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access I'm not sure why you need anykind of sealing. I've never seen any seals on certified airplanes, but there may be. My wife sometimes applies a phrase to me that might apply here....Don't over think it bob. My purpose was to tighten them up and prevent vibration and coming loose, but I don't think that is necessary now. I do use nylon washers on the SS screw heads. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jaybannist@cs.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 8:22 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access Bob, Thanks for the heads up. I just might have to rethink my sealing method. Maybe a thin foam tape? - Jay do not archive "Bob Unternaehrer" wrote: >Caution here Jay. I did the silicone thing on a Cessna once and never could get them to quite sticking. Tried powder, which worked the best, but every annual they were stuck tight. Bob U. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jaybannist@cs.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:22 PM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access > > > > John, > > I have posted drawings of my access panel. Let me know if you would like me to e-mail them to you. I set the doubler in silicone sealant. When I install the cover plate, I will run a bead of silicone around the exposed part of the doubler and cover that with Saran before temporarily fastening the cover. When the silicone has cured, I will remove the cover and Saran and have a "permanent" gasket. > > Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J > Do not archive > > > John Davis wrote: > > > > >Hi All, > > > >I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting > >on the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the factory seems > >to be a poor choice since I wont have any easy access to the rear of the > >panel. > > > >So it seems like the options are: > > > >A) Install nutplates or similar and make the entire skin removable. As I > >have a QB kit their are already 90+ rivet holes that would have to be > >fitted, so thats a lot of work. > > > >B) Install the skin permanently but add a couple of access panels on the > >top. Seems like several folks on the list are doing this. My only > >concern with this approach would be water leaking under the access > >panel. Any ideas as to how to prevent/avoid this issue ? > > > >Your thoughts/Ideas ? > > > >Thanks in advance, > >John Davis > >Burnsville, NC > >601XL QB - Jab 3300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:12 AM PST US From: "Graeme Bell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Hirth Engine Steve You should try Bert Flood and see if he has any tradins at present. I bought one two years ago out of time 1200 hrs ok for home built for $7000 with oil tank. No prop radiator oil cooler etc. Graeme CNS ----- Original Message ----- From: "secatur" Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:43 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hirth Engine > > Gee Chris, Please don't tell the hundreds of people (myself included!) > that the Subaru EA-81 is too heavy for our successful 701 aircraft ! > Also please inform me when next you see a 912 for $10k ! I'll buy it sight > unseen and make a handsome profit on the same day resale! > Steve from Perth > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139351#139351 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/06_169.jpg > > > -- > 05/10/2007 18:53 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. From: "n85ae" This sounds like myth to me, I worked in auto parts all through high school, and briefly after the military. I can say for sure, anybody I ever met in the auto parts business would have said just one thing if they thought something was going on a plane, and that would be - COOL! Not only that, but auto parts people are for the most part very very disconnected from aviation, I can't imagine anybody worrying about being sued. It is possible you could find a couple who were possibly worried about being sued, but they would indeed be the rare exception. The only company I have ever come across that had any concern about anything remotely close to this is Supertrapp who put a "Not for Aviation Use" note on some of their muffler's. I suppose you could conceivably, walk into the local auto parts and verbalize your aviation intents, in just such a way that they might decide to not sell the parts to you ... But after you leave they might be calling 911 as well ... Jeff Gig Giacona wrote: > Welcome Joe, to the land of the groundless law suit, otherwise known as the USA. BUT, I never said they would would be found liable for the use of one of their engines in a homebuilt. > > There are vendors of parts out there that will not ship you their auto parts if they have reason to think you are putting them in an aircraft. > > > > Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > Come out of your shell man. > > On what farthest stretch of the imagination of liability do you think that GM or whomever could sue you for using a device in an situation of your own risk and peril?I.E. way the heck out of their published design parameters?? > > You had better not ever look at another fan belt because it might come off and smite you. > > Jesus H. Farkin Christ. > > > > Joe Motis > > Do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139394#139394 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:37 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re; Wing Spars Done! Bolts? From: "Kafka, Jeff" Thanks to all for the feedback on bolt direction. Clearly it will be a while before I need to make a decision! I, too used a variant of the arbor press method of rivet smashing, and I think the results were quite good (although I did manage to acquire more rivet-removing skills than I had hoped!) Jeff Kafka 601XL Plans Tail, Flaps, Ailerons, Spars Done Working on Ribs & Assembling Wings Do Not Archive This message (including any attachments) contains confidential and/or proprietary information intended only for the addressee. Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may constitute a violation of law. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by responding to this e-mail, and delete the message from your system. If you have any questions about this e-mail please notify the sender immediately. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:52 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Like to see a 601 HD or XL If you want to see in an HD and XL come to Thomaston Airport (OPN) about 50 miles south of Atlanta. If you come on a weekend I'll be happy to take you up in my XL. If you can fly, I'll let you at the controls. My treat. Jim Hoak has a HD at the same airport and I'm sure he would be happy to let you examine it. Let me know off list. Best regards, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300 w/DC 120 hrs ************************************** ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork) From: "tigermiller" I've sent a write up and pictures to the matronics photoshare thingy. I guess you have to wait awhile for it to get to the fileshare/photoshare facility. I've also sent it to Mark up at the ch601.org web site. I'll also attach all of it to this note. If you can't find it, send me a note and I'll e-mail you what I have. Dave -------- Dave Miller Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139409#139409 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bending_fixture_instructions_748.txt http://forums.matronics.com//files/000_0384_188.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/000_0383_107.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/000_0382_120.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/000_0381_131.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/000_0380_108.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:08 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. I've got a super trapp on my engine ,help's the with the tuning works great... I developed and sold the frist cordless miter saw back in 1996,used the DEWALT cordless skillsaw for power, improvrd it to do more thing's better! took their name off of the motor asumed all responsibility for it and all they did was rattle they're saber's and whine like a bitch, Oh! I almost forgot,They (DEWALT) bought one on what they thought was the sly,to look it over.The fact is, when you buy some thing it's yours to do with what ever you chose, you can add to or take away from it what ever IT'S YOURS!... They make good tools ,but the people that run the co. are a bunch of pencil neck Tool Nazi's and think just because that they didn't think of it, it should not be possible..Then there'n Harley Davison, we bought there engine's developed a re-drive ,made it work in a airplane,but we couldn't call our co." HOG-AIR"THEY owned the word" Hog" we didn't want to spend the money fighting them so we let the pigs have the hog word back..Just a WARNING don't us the word hog with anything like hog-wash,sweat hog ,hog -shit hog heaven, hog wild,hog trough,(the farmer's could be in real trouble with that one) hog feed ,hog farmer, hog breath, hog -roast, ect you must be careful the Hog- Patrol is out there! NOW are you ready for this!! The man that designed,and built the Supper Trapp mufler, sold his conpany for over 7 million dollars, did so ,so that he could further his life goal of building a" Flying Car" that he's been working on for over 40 years.... How about those "Apples" DO NOT USE ON AIRECRAFT !, Mabye some one should call 911!,but for who???? Joe N101HD601XL/RAM (now you know what HD in N101HD stands for) We had reserved the no . 102HD,103HD,104HD,105HD,but my UNCLE took them for " Homeland Defense" ----- Original Message ----- From: "n85ae" Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:00 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. > > This sounds like myth to me, I worked in auto parts all through high > school, and briefly after the military. I can say for sure, anybody I ever > met in the auto parts business would have said just one thing if they > thought something was going on a plane, and that would be - COOL! > > Not only that, but auto parts people are for the most part very very > disconnected from aviation, I can't imagine anybody worrying about > being sued. It is possible you could find a couple who were possibly > worried about being sued, but they would indeed be the rare exception. > > The only company I have ever come across that had any concern about > anything remotely close to this is Supertrapp who put a "Not for Aviation > Use" note on some of their muffler's. > > I suppose you could conceivably, walk into the local auto parts and > verbalize your aviation intents, in just such a way that they might decide > to not sell the parts to you ... But after you leave they might be > calling > 911 as well ... > > Jeff > > > Gig Giacona wrote: >> Welcome Joe, to the land of the groundless law suit, otherwise known as >> the USA. BUT, I never said they would would be found liable for the use >> of one of their engines in a homebuilt. >> >> There are vendors of parts out there that will not ship you their auto >> parts if they have reason to think you are putting them in an aircraft. >> >> >> >> Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote: >> > >> > Come out of your shell man. >> > On what farthest stretch of the imagination of liability do you think >> > that GM or whomever could sue you for using a device in an situation >> > of your own risk and peril?I.E. way the heck out of their published >> > design parameters?? >> > You had better not ever look at another fan belt because it might come >> > off and smite you. >> > Jesus H. Farkin Christ. >> > >> > Joe Motis >> > Do not archive >> > >> > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139394#139394 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:26 PM PST US From: Debo Cox Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork) Wow Dave! Your write-up and pics are exactly what I was looking for. Very ingenious. Thanks for posting them here, and at the 601 site. Posts like yours are one of the reasons I still stay on this list. Thanks again for willingly sharing your set-up. Debo Cox Nags Head, NC www.mykitlog.com/debo do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:33 PM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: Zenith-List: Wings & Wheels Dear Listers If you are in flying or driving distance of San Antonio, there is going to be an event this Saturday, 10/13 to support Angel Flight. The local morning show had a crew come out yesterday to give the event a plug. I've attached links to the video they shot. You might see a familiar Zodiac in the background. The weather looks nice for the weekend, so f you have the time, come out and visit. http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=455754@video.woai.com&nav CatId=13 http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=455729@video.woai.com&nav CatId=13 If the links don't work, you can go to http://www.woai.com/home.aspx, click on the SA Living tab and find the video for Car and Airshow, and Car and Airshow part 2 Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/n282rs n282rs at satx.rr.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:29 PM PST US From: carlos Subject: Zenith-List: New style flap actuator Hello everyone, My name is Carlos Hernandez and I'm in Arizona. Please excuse me for not owning a Zenith aircraft but I have some questions about the linear flap actuator that are now being used in them. I own and fly a Pazmany PL-1, which is very similar in size and performance to the 601, with manual flaps and we want to convert to electric flaps. Now I've read the archives but not much has been mentioned about the performance of the new style unit compared to the original heavier and more costly actuator. I was told that there are several flying with this unit. The old unit number is D145-00-36-3 and the newer version is DE12-17W41. I have an A&P who is persistent in using the more expensive unit that has "a track record". I'm not looking to debate the A&P, he's a good friend and I do greatly respect his knowledge and opinion. I just don't allows agree with him. So I'm more or less looking for testimonials and/or experiences with the new style actuator. Do you trust it less/same/more than the original? I'm looking into these because they're lighter, less expensive and, if need be, easily replaceable. Thank you for your time ladies and gents! Carlos -- Carlos Hernandez Structural Engineers, LLC 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 Chandler, AZ 85224 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:24 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wings & Wheels Randy, Your Zodiac (flyable experimental thing) looks great in the background! Any one flying in had better check out the massive TFR around Waco and stay clear! Jay in Dallas "Randy Stout" wrote: > >Dear Listers > >If you are in flying or driving distance of San Antonio, there is going to >be an event this Saturday, 10/13 to support Angel Flight. The local morning >show had a crew come out yesterday to give the event a plug. I've attached >links to the video they shot. You might see a familiar Zodiac in the >background. The weather looks nice for the weekend, so f you have the time, >come out and visit. > >http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=455754@video.woai.com&nav >CatId=13 > >http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=455729@video.woai.com&nav >CatId=13 > >If the links don't work, you can go to http://www.woai.com/home.aspx, click >on the SA Living tab and find the video for Car and Airshow, and Car and >Airshow part 2 > >Randy Stout >San Antonio TX >www.geocities.com/n282rs >n282rs at satx.rr.com > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:05 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. I can say for fact that Summit Racing supply will not sell me anything i f I even mention " experimental aircraft". I have got that response from several of their order takers so it is a protocol they must stress on t heir employees. I called one day to order about 1000.00 bucks worth of M SD ignition stuff for my toy and they refused to sell it to me. I then c alled Jegs high performance and they not only were hip on the idea of an auto engine in a plane the guy actually went to my website while I was on the phone with him and he came back with a "GEEZ" that is KOOL..... Both vendors were within a few cents of each other on price and from the n on Jegs got all my business, and still does. Just my two cents worth. .. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "n85ae" wrote: This sounds like myth to me, I worked in auto parts all through high school, and briefly after the military. I can say for sure, anybody I ev er met in the auto parts business would have said just one thing if they thought something was going on a plane, and that would be - COOL! Not only that, but auto parts people are for the most part very very disconnected from aviation, I can't imagine anybody worrying about being sued. It is possible you could find a couple who were possibly worried about being sued, but they would indeed be the rare exception. The only company I have ever come across that had any concern about anything remotely close to this is Supertrapp who put a "Not for Aviatio n Use" note on some of their muffler's. I suppose you could conceivably, walk into the local auto parts and verbalize your aviation intents, in just such a way that they might deci de to not sell the parts to you ... But after you leave they might be call ing 911 as well ... Jeff Gig Giacona wrote: > Welcome Joe, to the land of the groundless law suit, otherwise known a s the USA. BUT, I never said they would would be found liable for the us e of one of their engines in a homebuilt. > > There are vendors of parts out there that will not ship you their auto parts if they have reason to think you are putting them in an aircraft. > > > > Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > Come out of your shell man. > > On what farthest stretch of the imagination of liability do you thi nk that GM or whomever could sue you for using a device in an situation of your own risk and peril?I.E. way the heck out of their published de sign parameters?? > > You had better not ever look at another fan belt because it might c ome off and smite you. > > Jesus H. Farkin Christ. > > > > Joe Motis > > Do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139394#139394 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:43 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New style flap actuator Hi Carlos, I am replying with anecdotal information I got from email posts rather than experience, so don't take my comments too seriously. I also had a conversation with an engineer at ZAC over the actuator question. First let me say the reason I spoke to ZAC over this issue is the old unit didn't give me full displacement on the flaps. The drawings call for 30 degrees and I was getting around 28. The engineer at Zenith told me the new actuator only gives 20 degrees in this design. The other comment I have is some builder posted a complaint about run-away flaps a few months ago. I don't know which actuator he had, but apparently it wasn't the old "tried and true" heavy and expensive actuator. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 02:03 PM 10/11/2007, you wrote: > >Hello everyone, >My name is Carlos Hernandez and I'm in Arizona. Please excuse me for >not owning a Zenith aircraft but I have some questions about the >linear flap actuator that are now being used in them. I own and fly >a Pazmany PL-1, which is very similar in size and performance to the >601, with manual flaps and we want to convert to electric flaps. Now >I've read the archives but not much has been mentioned about the >performance of the new style unit compared to the original heavier >and more costly actuator. I was told that there are several flying >with this unit. The old unit number is D145-00-36-3 and the newer >version is DE12-17W41. I have an A&P who is persistent in using the >more expensive unit that has "a track record". I'm not looking to >debate the A&P, he's a good friend and I do greatly respect his >knowledge and opinion. I just don't allows agree with him. So I'm >more or less looking for testimonials and/or experiences with the >new style actuator. Do you trust it less/same/more than the >original? I'm looking into these because they're lighter, less >expensive and, if need be, easily replaceable. > >Thank you for your time ladies and gents! >Carlos > >-- >Carlos Hernandez >Structural Engineers, LLC >2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 >Chandler, AZ 85224 >Phone: 480.968.8600 >Fax: 480.968.8608 >www.sec-engr.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:05 PM PST US From: Stanley Challgren Subject: Zenith-List: 701 with Jab 3300 List: I am at the stage where I need to make a decision on the engine to use in my 701. I had the Jab 3300 (A very early one) in my 601 and did have cooling problems below 95 mph. That is the upper limit of the envelope for the 701 so I am wondering if anyone has a Jab 3300 (current version) in a flying 701 and, if so, are you having any cooling problems? Stan N701VG (Reserved) ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:51 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. Ben, in retrospect, that happend to us on the harley eng. The harley ignition would not work because we didn't have a speed-o or turn signals on our 601, so we had to find a new source The BIG well known manufacture in Daytona Beach couldn't sell us because, LEGAL DEPT. said no So we went to manu. in California, they said "great,"Cool , That will show how good we are . Our ignition in a airplane. How can we help ?" Scared money never won nothing" Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ----- Original Message ----- From: n801bh@netzero.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. I can say for fact that Summit Racing supply will not sell me anything if I even mention " experimental aircraft". I have got that response from several of their order takers so it is a protocol they must stress on their employees. I called one day to order about 1000.00 bucks worth of MSD ignition stuff for my toy and they refused to sell it to me. I then called Jegs high performance and they not only were hip on the idea of an auto engine in a plane the guy actually went to my website while I was on the phone with him and he came back with a "GEEZ" that is KOOL..... Both vendors were within a few cents of each other on price and from then on Jegs got all my business, and still does. Just my two cents worth... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "n85ae" wrote: This sounds like myth to me, I worked in auto parts all through high school, and briefly after the military. I can say for sure, anybody I ever met in the auto parts business would have said just one thing if they thought something was going on a plane, and that would be - COOL! Not only that, but auto parts people are for the most part very very disconnected from aviation, I can't imagine anybody worrying about being sued. It is possible you could find a couple who were possibly worried about being sued, but they would indeed be the rare exception. The only company I have ever come across that had any concern about anything remotely close to this is Supertrapp who put a "Not for Aviation Use" note on some of their muffler's. I suppose you could conceivably, walk into the local auto parts and verbalize your aviation intents, in just such a way that they might decide to not sell the parts to you ... But after you leave they might be calling 911 as well ... Jeff Gig Giacona wrote: > Welcome Joe, to the land of the groundless law suit, otherwise known as the USA. BUT, I never said they would would be found liable for the use of one of their engines in a homebuilt. > > There are vendors of parts out there that will not ship you their auto parts if they have reason to think you are putting them in an aircraft. > > > > Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > Come out of your shell man. > > On what farthest stretch of the imagination of liability do you think that GM or whomever could sue you for using a device in an situation of your own risk and peril?I.E. way the heck out of their published design parameters?? > > You had better not ever look at another fan belt because it might come off and smite you. > > Jesus H. Farkin Christ. > > > > Joe Motis > > Do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/view============== =======bsp; - NEW MATRONICS WEB ====== ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:50 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. I feel that if anyone were not to sell you anything because "they" do not want to for whatever reason and then sell it to the next person who walks through the door is discrimination by the dictionary definition. Where would the line be? No sale of anything that could be used on your aircraft would start at about "alternator and go to at least z clips. An experimental aircraft is just that. Also, stamping not for aircraft use means absolutely nothing. It is similar to the people that want to see your receipt when you walk out the door at some Home Depots. I say "no thanks" because it is mine I paid for it and it is none of your damn business. Including looking at the receipt which is also my property. The burden of responsibility passed when the store took my money in exchange for the goods and the receipt. If you buy a toaster and make toast while soaking in the tub, your electrocution ain't Proctor/ Silex's fault... ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:29 PM PST US From: Dan Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. Orchards Supply has aircraft cable for sale by the foot. They also have a sign that says "not for aircraft use". Dan Wilde ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:33 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. You are 100% correct...... ----- Original Message ----- From: Joemotis@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 8:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. I feel that if anyone were not to sell you anything because "they" do not want to for whatever reason and then sell it to the next person who walks through the door is discrimination by the dictionary definition. Where would the line be? No sale of anything that could be used on your aircraft would start at about "alternator and go to at least z clips. An experimental aircraft is just that. Also, stamping not for aircraft use means absolutely nothing. It is similar to the people that want to see your receipt when you walk out the door at some Home Depots. I say "no thanks" because it is mine I paid for it and it is none of your damn business. Including looking at the receipt which is also my property. The burden of responsibility passed when the store took my money in exchange for the goods and the receipt. If you buy a toaster and make toast while soaking in the tub, your electrocution ain't Proctor/ Silex's fault... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's new ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:30 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wings & Wheels now restricted area Interesting timing, last weekend in our dove hunting camp was a Secret Service dude stationed at the Crawford Ranch. Over dinner I told him the story of a buddy that got a visit from an F-16 even thou his GPS showed him 2-3 miles OUTSIDE the restricted area. He told me that the ACTUAL ring follows the President around the property so if Dubya is out at the street checking the mailbox or gabbing with the neighbors the ring is different than if he's at the Back Forty checking the fenceline . He ALSO told me that if you get within 40 miles a decision is being made whether to jump you or not, depending on several things, NONE of which he was willing to share. What I gathered thou was DON'T run at the Circle and plan to make a 90* turn at the last minute, might get a visit , if you skirt it, stay 5 miles outside and all stays calm. LOW&SLO John Bolding ----- Original Message ----- From: Jaybannist@cs.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 4:13 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wings & Wheels Randy, Your Zodiac (flyable experimental thing) looks great in the background! Any one flying in had better check out the massive TFR around Waco and stay clear! Jay in Dallas ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:51 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. Is it written in Chinese also , I only read Chinese. A sign is a weak defense at best even in attractive nuisance situations involving children. Does their sign also mean I cannot hang my 1/4 scale P 38 Lightning from the rafters because of their sign. It would clearly be for aircraft use. Or I was pulling my 152 out of a mud hole and it snapped? Or I built a prop lock and someone stole the airplane and tried to fly with it on and crashed? Or I made tie downs and they broke in a windstorm.? When you buy a car is their a sign telling you not to run over people?? Joe Motis Do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 welded kit parts From: "kmccune" Do the parts that need to be welded in the kit arrive welded, or just tube stock? I'm thinking of buying the welded parts separately instead of fabricating them. Also the fuel tanks, other kit MFGs, I believe, offer tanks kits that are riveted together with sealant in the seams.? True? Comments on longevity of said sealants? I can weld pretty well, but no one has ever inspected/tested my welds (since high school, a looong time ago) and I don't want to worry about it. Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139490#139490 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:37 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. Is the Harley engine still offered on the 601 and what is the company called if you are still doing the conversions. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Southern Reflections To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 2:16 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. I've got a super trapp on my engine ,help's the with the tuning works great... I developed and sold the frist cordless miter saw back in 1996,used the DEWALT cordless skillsaw for power, improvrd it to do more thing's better! took their name off of the motor asumed all responsibility for it and all they did was rattle they're saber's and whine like a bitch, Oh! I almost forgot,They (DEWALT) bought one on what they thought was the sly,to look it over.The fact is, when you buy some thing it's yours to do with what ever you chose, you can add to or take away from it what ever IT'S YOURS!... They make good tools ,but the people that run the co. are a bunch of pencil neck Tool Nazi's and think just because that they didn't think of it, it should not be possible..Then there'n Harley Davison, we bought there engine's developed a re-drive ,made it work in a airplane,but we couldn't call our co." HOG-AIR"THEY owned the word" Hog" we didn't want to spend the money fighting them so we let the pigs have the hog word back..Just a WARNING don't us the word hog with anything like hog-wash,sweat hog ,hog -shit hog heaven, hog wild,hog trough,(the farmer's could be in real trouble with that one) hog feed ,hog farmer, hog breath, hog -roast, ect you must be careful the Hog- Patrol is out there! NOW are you ready for this!! The man that designed,and built the Supper Trapp mufler, sold his conpany for over 7 million dollars, did so ,so that he could further his life goal of building a" Flying Car" that he's been working on for over 40 years.... How about those "Apples" DO NOT USE ON AIRECRAFT !, Mabye some one should call 911!,but for who???? Joe N101HD601XL/RAM (now you know what HD in N101HD stands for) We had reserved the no . 102HD,103HD,104HD,105HD,but my UNCLE took them for " Homeland Defense" ----- Original Message ----- From: "n85ae" To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:00 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. > > This sounds like myth to me, I worked in auto parts all through high > school, and briefly after the military. I can say for sure, anybody I ever > met in the auto parts business would have said just one thing if they > thought something was going on a plane, and that would be - COOL! > > Not only that, but auto parts people are for the most part very very > disconnected from aviation, I can't imagine anybody worrying about > being sued. It is possible you could find a couple who were possibly > worried about being sued, but they would indeed be the rare exception. > > The only company I have ever come across that had any concern about > anything remotely close to this is Supertrapp who put a "Not for Aviation > Use" note on some of their muffler's. > > I suppose you could conceivably, walk into the local auto parts and > verbalize your aviation intents, in just such a way that they might decide > to not sell the parts to you ... But after you leave they might be > calling > 911 as well ... > > Jeff > > > Gig Giacona wrote: >> Welcome Joe, to the land of the groundless law suit, otherwise known as >> the USA. BUT, I never said they would would be found liable for the use >> of one of their engines in a homebuilt. >> >> There are vendors of parts out there that will not ship you their auto >> parts if they have reason to think you are putting them in an aircraft. >> >> >> >> Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote: >> > >> > Come out of your shell man. >> > On what farthest stretch of the imagination of liability do you think >> > that GM or whomever could sue you for using a device in an situation >> > of your own risk and peril?I.E. way the heck out of their published >> > design parameters?? >> > You had better not ever look at another fan belt because it might come >> > off and smite you. >> > Jesus H. Farkin Christ. >> > >> > Joe Motis >> > Do not archive >> > >> > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139394#139394 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork) From: "kmccune" Thanks, you just saved me $$$ :D Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139491#139491 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:21 PM PST US From: RClaggf4u@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 welded kit parts Kevin, The parts come welded from Zenith. Just clean, paint and install. The Tanks are welded aluminum, they have a couple of welders that do a remarkable job. I watched them both at the open house and to say I was impressed is an understatemet. Truly outstanding work. Wayne 701 plans building. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:30 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 welded kit parts Hi Kevin, I used to think I could weld too. After seeing all the absolutely gorgeous welding done on kit parts from Zenith, I decided my own welding needs a lot more work. I am building a 601XL from standard kit and all the welding was done on the kit parts. That includes welded aluminum fuel tanks and many welded steel assemblies. I presume the 701 kit is produced in a similar fashion. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 06:06 PM 10/11/2007, you wrote: > >Do the parts that need to be welded in the kit arrive welded, or >just tube stock? I'm thinking of buying the welded parts separately >instead of fabricating them. > >Also the fuel tanks, other kit MFGs, I believe, offer tanks kits >that are riveted together with sealant in the seams.? True? Comments >on longevity of said sealants? > >I can weld pretty well, but no one has ever inspected/tested my >welds (since high school, a looong time ago) and I don't want to >worry about it. > >Kevin > >------ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:04 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 welded kit parts From: "kmccune" Thanks guys, one more issue checked off :D :D :D Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139504#139504 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:34 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 welded kit parts From: "kmccune" My cousin is a union Foreman welder, on nuclear power plants and I can stick weld pretty close to him....but if you get out the cool welders .... I LOOSE BIG TIME. Kevin [quote="the(at)ATT.NET"]Hi Kevin, I used to think I could weld too. After seeing all the absolutely gorgeous welding done on kit parts from Zenith, I decided my own welding needs a lot more work. Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 06:06 PM 10/11/2007, you wrote: [quote] [Crying or Very sad] [Crying or Very sad] [Crying or Very sad] -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139505#139505 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:18 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New style flap actuator The run-away actuator was with the Surplus Center actuator and actually cause by the electronic controller available from the same source. With a hard toggle switch there is no power available to the actuator (of any make or model) and it can't run away. Others include a circuit breaker in the flap motor circuit to add a back-up disconnect. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:56 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. You can talk to brett@ skyRay .com , I think he's still selling engs and re -drive packages , not sure. I'am not part of it any more. Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Unternaehrer To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 8:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. Is the Harley engine still offered on the 601 and what is the company called if you are still doing the conversions. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Southern Reflections To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 2:16 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. I've got a super trapp on my engine ,help's the with the tuning works great... I developed and sold the frist cordless miter saw back in 1996,used the DEWALT cordless skillsaw for power, improvrd it to do more thing's better! took their name off of the motor asumed all responsibility for it and all they did was rattle they're saber's and whine like a bitch, Oh! I almost forgot,They (DEWALT) bought one on what they thought was the sly,to look it over.The fact is, when you buy some thing it's yours to do with what ever you chose, you can add to or take away from it what ever IT'S YOURS!... They make good tools ,but the people that run the co. are a bunch of pencil neck Tool Nazi's and think just because that they didn't think of it, it should not be possible..Then there'n Harley Davison, we bought there engine's developed a re-drive ,made it work in a airplane,but we couldn't call our co." HOG-AIR"THEY owned the word" Hog" we didn't want to spend the money fighting them so we let the pigs have the hog word back..Just a WARNING don't us the word hog with anything like hog-wash,sweat hog ,hog -shit hog heaven, hog wild,hog trough,(the farmer's could be in real trouble with that one) hog feed ,hog farmer, hog breath, hog -roast, ect you must be careful the Hog- Patrol is out there! NOW are you ready for this!! The man that designed,and built the Supper Trapp mufler, sold his conpany for over 7 million dollars, did so ,so that he could further his life goal of building a" Flying Car" that he's been working on for over 40 years.... How about those "Apples" DO NOT USE ON AIRECRAFT !, Mabye some one should call 911!,but for who???? Joe N101HD601XL/RAM (now you know what HD in N101HD stands for) We had reserved the no . 102HD,103HD,104HD,105HD,but my UNCLE took them for " Homeland Defense" ----- Original Message ----- From: "n85ae" To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:00 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. > > This sounds like myth to me, I worked in auto parts all through high > school, and briefly after the military. I can say for sure, anybody I ever > met in the auto parts business would have said just one thing if they > thought something was going on a plane, and that would be - COOL! > > Not only that, but auto parts people are for the most part very very > disconnected from aviation, I can't imagine anybody worrying about > being sued. It is possible you could find a couple who were possibly > worried about being sued, but they would indeed be the rare exception. > > The only company I have ever come across that had any concern about > anything remotely close to this is Supertrapp who put a "Not for Aviation > Use" note on some of their muffler's. > > I suppose you could conceivably, walk into the local auto parts and > verbalize your aviation intents, in just such a way that they might decide > to not sell the parts to you ... But after you leave they might be > calling > 911 as well ... > > Jeff > > > Gig Giacona wrote: >> Welcome Joe, to the land of the groundless law suit, otherwise known as >> the USA. BUT, I never said they would would be found liable for the use >> of one of their engines in a homebuilt. >> >> There are vendors of parts out there that will not ship you their auto >> parts if they have reason to think you are putting them in an aircraft. >> >> >> >> Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote: >> > >> > Come out of your shell man. >> > On what farthest stretch of the imagination of liability do you think >> > that GM or whomever could sue you for using a device in an situation >> > of your own risk and peril?I.E. way the heck out of their published >> > design parameters?? >> > You had better not ever look at another fan belt because it might come >> > off and smite you. >> > Jesus H. Farkin Christ. >> > >> > Joe Motis >> > Do not archive >> > >> > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139394#139394 > > > > > > > > > > > p; Features Subscriptions href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ====================== bsp; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.