---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/15/07: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:15 AM - Re: access panels (DaveG601XL) 2. 06:05 AM - Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...? (Float Flyr) 3. 06:40 AM - Connectors for small diameter wires (charles.long@allisontransmission.com) 4. 07:21 AM - Re: Jab dual throttle (Ron Ellis) 5. 07:26 AM - 701 Dual Controls. ref Michael Rand. (Geoff Heap) 6. 07:27 AM - Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...? (ashontz) 7. 08:35 AM - Re: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys! (japhillipsga@aol.com) 8. 09:16 AM - Re: Jab dual throttle (lgingell) 9. 11:10 AM - Re: O-235 Prop (MaxNr@aol.com) 10. 12:48 PM - Re: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys! (Ron Lendon) 11. 02:09 PM - Jabiru Engine Seminar (Edward Moody II) 12. 02:38 PM - Engine for sale (Gary Olson) 13. 06:54 PM - Re: Jabiru Engine Seminar (Al Young) 14. 07:20 PM - Dumb Aileron Trim Question (Brad Cohen) 15. 07:47 PM - (Brad Cohen) 16. 08:07 PM - Re: Instrument Panel Access (Ron Ellis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: access panels From: "DaveG601XL" Well Dan, you got me on that one. In my defense, I only grabbed the closest light to me and used it as the guinea pig on both sides for fit-ups. The lights have not been back in since and await patiently in the box. One more thing, the hole in the outer panel, as it turns out, is a great grip point for lifting the wing. It has proved to be strong enough to use as a hand hold without distorting. I upped the tip skin piece to .025 (kit is .016). Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140036#140036 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...? From: "Float Flyr" I'd like to make a few points. first, for the harness you describes I'd install a multi conductor junction connector like a Moulinex or Cannon to make change outs easier. Second, If you really don't think the connector is the way to go then stagger your solder joints so no joint can come in direct contact with another joint. Making the joints that way keeps down the diameter of the final complete splice and protects form the possibility of a short circuit. Save the electric tape for ground applications. Use only heat shrink on aircraft wiring. Noel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140049#140049 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Connectors for small diameter wires From: charles.long@allisontransmission.com Electric Bob had a good suggestion for crimping the very fine wires used on the Mac servo trim system. He suggested using the D Sub connector series. He also sells the crimping tool for a very reasonable price. I took his advice and am very pleased with the results. The crimping tool was very easy to use, He suggested Faston connections for the bigger wires, another great connection system, especially if you use the automotive type fuse block and switches. For those unfamiliar with connectors, the D Sub series is ultra high volume - computer grade. Pins are gold contact - the best metal for connections if you can afford it. Good news is the DB connectors are affordable due to the high volumes - a win win situation. It is good to strain relieve the wires as well by bundling together and tying them down so they don't vibrate. I concur that solder joints are something to avoid because of pour fatigue resistance. Electric Bob's business is called B&C specialty products. The crimper is an RCT-3 and they also sell connector systems. Another source for connectors is Mouser Electronics. They too have an online store. I have had good success with both of these outfits over the years. Chuck Long Zodie Rocket N601LE, 150 hr TT ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:54 AM PST US From: Ron Ellis Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jab dual throttle Jeff, Thanks for the info, and I would like to see some pics. I'll take a look at Larry's site also. Mosquito56, I've had to contact USJabiru 4 or 5 times, and so far they've been very responsive. I'll let you know what they say this time. Ron 601XL-3300 Time: 06:18:32 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jab dual throttle Ron, I installed my Jabiru 3300 about a year ago. I bought it and the FWF about two years ago. So I have parts of that vintage. The FWF came first by several months. I have the dual throttle option. For the center throttle cable I drilled a hole in the "shelf" with no problems. I used the thicker XL shelf with the cabin side U channel and the XL gussets between the shelf and the nose gear channel. The current design in this area has been enhanced further. I don't have XL plans to follow the current configuration, but where I had a concern was at the point where the throttle cables come through the firewall. The FSF package had simple bulkhead fittings there. When the throttle was moved, it tried to flex the firewall as the outer arms on the throttle rod over the shelf moved up and down. See Larry McFarland's web site for the fix using a vertical slot for the throttle cable through the firewall. I modified the solution a bit, and will supply pictures if you like, but the basic design is Larry's. Jeff Davidson I found a small issue with the Jab 601XL 3300 firewall forward, dual throttle installation. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:33 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Dual Controls. ref Michael Rand. From: "Geoff Heap" Michael. I got your email but my replies keep coming back as undeliverable. According to the internet mailman your system has me flagged as a spammer. If you can fix this at your end I can send you various data. Attached is a Pic of my dual controls at the moment without the cover on. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140065#140065 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0030_176.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:50 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...? From: "ashontz" I agree, solder is the way to go. Crimps suck. I've had crimps fall part 2 seconds after I thought it was tight. Good way to do an inline connect is to get a small piece of wood, staple both wires to the wood facing each other (careful not to staple through the wire) then line them up and solder them together. Then remove the holder wood of course. Also, tinning the wires beforehand helps a lot. Don't forget to put the shrink tube on first so you can slide it down over the connection. Large wires (cable) a propane torch works well. do not archive dougsnash(at)yahoo.com wrote: > Guys, all this talk of crimp connectors is making me a > little nervious. The best way to joun two wires > together is to solder them. Next step is to rinse the > flux off with water or rubbing alcohol. Then to > finish them up, apply heat shrink (preferably the > internally glued type). This is what the professional > avionics shops are supposed to do. > > Yes, it might be overkill in some instances but it > will always work. No guessing if the crimp is going > to fail. > > Doug MacDonald > CH-701 Scratch Builder > NW Ontario, Canada > > --- Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > > > > > > > > > At 08:49 PM 10/12/2007, you wrote: > > >Same here. I have been using d-sub computer style > > connectors from > > >Radio Shack. Get your magnifying glass out! > > > > I wonder how well miniature connectors like the > > D-sub work for 16 AWG > > wires. They are usually used for 22 AWG and smaller > > wires. > > > > I have been using automotive spade connectors > > crimped onto the Tefzel > > aircraft wires. I like the ones that come with full > > plastic covers > > and tend to tie them together with lacing tape. > > > > Paul > > XL Fuselage > > > > > > > > > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. > http://farechase.yahoo.com/ -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140066#140066 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys! From: japhillipsga@aol.com Juan, Great News!! Same thing happened to me on first high speed taxi test. Obviously high speed taxi test should be about 10-20 mph. I know your proud and you can expect those CHT temps to go down as the motor works out, Again, congratulations, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300 120 hrs? -----Original Message----- From: Juan Vega Sent: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 6:24 am Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys! after putting on the cowling and setting up yhe dynon system on Rivet the wonder plane ,so named by ,my wife , I started her up for the first time and planned to do taxi tests. so much for the taxi tests, she took off on me at 40 knots!. 427JV took off and went up to 1500 feet, wrong place to burn in the breaks! Flys hands off. Temps were CHT-340, EGT was average 1300 to 1300. after about 2 hours they were down to 345 and 1290. did high speed taxi upon landing, and breaks work fine. took cwl off and only issue was oil comingloose oil filter, screws fell off tail light, and prop needs to be pitched less. Juan Vega, 601xl, J 3300. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jab dual throttle From: "lgingell" I was unimpressed with the dual throttle that I received. I changed quite a few of the parts, and it works great now. See my log entry around 8/17/2005 at http://lancegingell.com/planebuild/constructionlog.asp to see what I did. Cheers, ..lance Zodiac XL/Jabiru3300 http://lancegingell.com/planebuild/ -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140086#140086 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:07 AM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: O-235 Prop A starting point and one way to a deal with it is to plagiarize and use what the competion (type certified A/C) are using and develop from there. They test an engine/prop combination that will in turn cut down some development time on your part. Some examples: Last weekend, I flew a Piper PA-38 Tomahawk with a O-235 L2C. It had a Sensenich 72CK-O-56. Type Cert. Data Sheet for the PA38 (TCDS #A18SO) says that it can be cut down to no less than 70 in. PA 38 is a 1670 LB GW bird that climbs at maxGW on a 20 dg C day at 500 fpm and cruises about 100KT at 2400 rpm. Plan on about 6.5 gal per HR at 3000'. I have an engine/prop combo from a Grumman American/Tiger LLC AA-1. It is a O-235C2C with a McCauly 71/54. TCDS #A11EA for the AA1 also approves the 71/53 and 71/57 props. Never flew a Yankee, but its a 1560 # GW and goes over 100KT. It has 3' less span and about 10Sq ft less wing area than a 601XL. To see a AA1 with a cruise prop take off on a hot day at GW is painful to watch. More Diameter for a given pitch gives more low speed "dig", noise and climb.(seaplanes) Less diameter gives more speed. 71" diameter is about the most I will use for the 601XL because of ground clearance. Could cut down to 70". Also could re-pitch another inch or two later. Another thing about both of these certified birds is that the airframe mfgr limits max RPM at 2600 RPM. They had to meet a noise certification standard. I have the latest O-235 Operators Manual and it says that "Rated Power" is at 2800 RPM all day long. My plan is to list my limits as 2800 for 5 minutes and Max Continuos Power (MCP) as 2600. Climb performance is important to me too. TBO is 2400 hrs. The only max operating time limits for the engine are for CHT and oil temp. FAA TCDS for certified A/C have a lot of data re: engines for us builders. Go to FAA home page, Clk on Aircraft, scroll down to Tech Info and select the TCDS. I also downloaded an Excel spreadsheet from Sport Aviation for prop selection. Its neat. Bob, Pace,FL XL/Lyc (tail feathers) ************************************** ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys! From: "Ron Lendon" Juan, In Toyota speak "OH What A Feeling!!!!" Sorry I missed the announcement, was away for the weekend. Congratulations! -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140124#140124 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:14 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru Engine Seminar Just got back home from a 1300 mile round trip drive to Shelbyville TN where Jabiru USA put on an engine maintenance and repair seminar. Many helpful little tidbits came out in addition to the expected technical education on totally reassembling a 3300 engine from individual parts. Pete Krotje and his staff have had to resolve a lot of engine screw ups over the years and they shared many of those "Don't do this because this (holding up a broken engine part) will be the result" stories with the class. This was the first of two seminars there for me. I will be heading back there next month for a seminar on installing a 3300 on a Zodiac 601XL, which is what I will be doing very soon. My point is that having spent some time with Pete, Nick Otterback, and Mark Stauffer at the seminar left me with a good feeling about being able to work with them into the future. I'd recommend that anyone who is running a Jabiru engine and can make it to Tennessee for one of these seminars should go for it. The area is fun and interesting (not the least of which is the Jack Daniels Distillery in nearby Lynchburg, TN), the folks are friendly and love anything airplane related, and it is always easier to get through a problem with someone you know rather than with someone you have only written to or phoned. Now, once I get a bit caught up on putting out fires in the camp back here at home, it's back to working on wiring the Zodiac. Dred Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:32 PM PST US From: Gary Olson Subject: Zenith-List: Engine for sale Fellow listers, I have a brand new, fully assembled, never run, 2276 Great Plains VW with a 1:6/1 reduction drive that I am looking to sell. I had intended it to power my Kitfox S7. My initial intention was to install the VW because of its low cost, weight, and ease of maintenance. This decision was made when I was forced to let my medical lapse and pursue sport pilot flying. My Fox is about 90% complete and the is engine installed. Due to the fact that I am now able to obtain a valid medical, I am now going to install a larger (and heavier) engine to meet the aircraft's 1550# gross weight capacity. I have listed the particulars of the engine below. The total cost of this engine if purchased from Great Plains is over $6800 (plus $850 for assembly and crating). I will listen to any reasonable offers. If interested please e-mail me off list and I will send you pictures of the engine and accessories. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. 920 379-6668. Thanks. Aluminum engine case Valley engineering 1:6/1 Reduction drive Heavy duty cast iron oil pump Compufire DIS-IX distributorless ignition system with the Bosch 009 dist. Total Seal Gapless 2nd Ring Set Unision Slick ignition harness Lycoming bushings Starter Brand new Unison Slick Magneto 4316 Oil filter adapter EMPI 00-9244-0 Curtis drain valve gascolator Diehl Acessory case. Starter in the 12 o'clock position Premium head upgrade Oil temp, pressure sending units Downdraft intake manifold Bolt on aluminum valve covers Negotiable items include: Aerovee carburetor (s-flange) ACV-CO4 35 mm with Aerovee Filter All stainless hoses currently on engine Gary Olson Kitfox Series 7 2276 VW redrive Oshkosh, WI. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:16 PM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru Engine Seminar I must add my kados to Eds. The seminar was excellent. Took many of the mysteries out of the jab engine. The seminar is a must for anyone who is even thinking about the jab as the power for his project. If you are thinking of any other engine, before you buy, check out the seminar. $300 is a lot less of a mistake than $15000. I know now that I made the right choice. Al Young 601XL- jab 3300 N-601AY Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Moody II To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 3:07 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru Engine Seminar Just got back home from a 1300 mile round trip drive to Shelbyville TN where Jabiru USA put on an engine maintenance and repair seminar. Many helpful little tidbits came out in addition to the expected technical education on totally reassembling a 3300 engine from individual parts. Pete Krotje and his staff have had to resolve a lot of engine screw ups over the years and they shared many of those "Don't do this because this (holding up a broken engine part) will be the result" stories with the class. This was the first of two seminars there for me. I will be heading back there next month for a seminar on installing a 3300 on a Zodiac 601XL, which is what I will be doing very soon. My point is that having spent some time with Pete, Nick Otterback, and Mark Stauffer at the seminar left me with a good feeling about being able to work with them into the future. I'd recommend that anyone who is running a Jabiru engine and can make it to Tennessee for one of these seminars should go for it. The area is fun and interesting (not the least of which is the Jack Daniels Distillery in nearby Lynchburg, TN), the folks are friendly and love anything airplane related, and it is always easier to get through a problem with someone you know rather than with someone you have only written to or phoned. Now, once I get a bit caught up on putting out fires in the camp back here at home, it's back to working on wiring the Zodiac. Dred Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:16 PM PST US From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Zenith-List: Dumb Aileron Trim Question I am installing the roll trim in the port aileron and as I prepare to drill through the bottom skin into the cut out channel (6-ATO-1-2) I noticed that my rivet holes through the skin do not line up with my line drawn at 10mm edge distance on the channel. This happened even though the edge of the bend radius on the channel does line up with the edge of the skin. My assumption is that this is due to the twist built into the aileron. Any thoughts from those of you smarter than me?? Brad Cohen 601XL-TD ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:19 PM PST US From: "Brad Cohen" I am installing the aileron trim tab and as I am getting ready to install the aileron cutout channel I noticed that the holes I drilled in the bottom of the aileron skin do not align with the 10mm edge distance line that I have drawn on the bottom of the cutout channel. This dispite the fact the the bend radius of the channel does line up with the cut edge of the aileron skin. I assume that this is because of the twist built into the aileron....any thoughts from all you out there much smarter than I? Brad Cohen XL-TD ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:17 PM PST US From: Ron Ellis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access Nice job Matt. I did something similar, but didn't hinge them, and they are a little smaller, but very helpful getting behind the panel. I put a pic in the photo share. Ron 601XL-3300 Time: 06:13:36 AM PST US From: "Matt & Jo" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access I put hatches in the forward top skin. This has really been valuable to get at stuff and seems to work well. I was a little concerned about the canopy interference but now that the canopy is on I haven't had a problem. Check it out. http://www.zodiacxl.com/Fwd%20Top%20Skin.htm Matt www.zodiacxl.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Davis" Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access > > Hi All, > > I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting on > the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.