---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/20/07: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:51 AM - Re: 601 HD power VS speed (Clive Richards) 2. 10:01 AM - Re: BMW Motor Mounts? (SockPuppet61) 3. 10:21 AM - CH701 builders: another DVD volume is ready! (Jon Croke) 4. 10:32 AM - Rudder failure (steve) 5. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: BMW Motor Mounts? (GeorgeM) 6. 11:20 AM - Re: Rudder failure (David Downey) 7. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: BMW Motor Mounts? (Eric Tiethoff) 8. 12:21 PM - Re: Rudder Failure (Dave Nixon) 9. 12:45 PM - Re: Upgrade for Garmin 296 Color GPS (Craig Payne) 10. 01:00 PM - Re: Rudder failure (LarryMcFarland) 11. 03:41 PM - Re: Flight Simulator files for CH701 (kmccune) 12. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: Rudder Failure (Southern Reflections) 13. 04:58 PM - Dynon system with XL senders (LHusky@aol.com) 14. 06:47 PM - Re: Dynon system with XL senders (george may) 15. 06:53 PM - Re: Dynon system with XL senders (LHusky@aol.com) 16. 07:23 PM - Re: Extra stuff needed to complete the 601XL Airframe (PatrickW) 17. 07:32 PM - Re: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday (PatrickW) 18. 07:41 PM - OK 701 flyers, what does it really cruise at with your engine,weight empty +mods (Joemotis@aol.com) 19. 08:09 PM - Re: Re: BMW Motor Mounts? (Jim and Lucy) 20. 08:18 PM - Re: Re: Extra stuff needed to complete the 601XL Airframe (Paul Mulwitz) 21. 08:27 PM - Re: Re: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday (Paul Mulwitz) 22. 08:54 PM - Re: Re: Extra stuff needed to complete the 601XL Airframe (Zodie Rocket) 23. 09:08 PM - Re: Re: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday (Zodie Rocket) 24. 09:22 PM - Hard Drive Failure (Zodie Rocket) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:38 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 HD power VS speed Rolls Royce Contintal 0-200 80 Knots at 2300 RPM 20 litres per hour 2 POB Ray Lasniers 601HD G-CBDG 176 Hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: Woody sulloway To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 9:50 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 601 HD power VS speed If you have a 601HD, what is it powered with and what is your cruise speed at 75% power? Any other factors that you believe might affect that speed? Thanks Woody ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:26 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: BMW Motor Mounts? From: "SockPuppet61" What BMW engines generate 100HP? It occurred to me that BMWs were so smooth in operation and durable that they would be the only motorcycle engine I'd think of for bolting on to a small airplane. Anyway, maybe the crankshaft isn't strong enough for air work, I'd like to hear from anybody flying one. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140883#140883 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:51 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 builders: another DVD volume is ready! HomebuiltHELP has just finished another video in the series for building your CH701. This newest release is titled: 912S Engine Installation and features the new dynafocal ring mount that is shipped with the latest Zenith firewall forward kit. It was filmed at the recent engine installation workshop conducted at Quality Sport Planes in Cloverdale Caifornia. It features a step by step demonstration of the firewall forward components and engine installation on the 701. Pictures and details can be found at http://homebuilthelp.com/CH701Rotax.htm An additional "bonus" DVD will be included with this release. We had the opportunity to interview Christopher Desmond, an experienced 701 bush pilot, as he discusses flying his 701. On the video, he performs a walk around on his plane, pointing out the features of the aircraft that allow him to perform the type of flying that has made the 701 famous. Also, because of the "extreme" nature of his off-airport back-country flying, his plane has some modifications which he discusses. Christopher has been filming his adventures and will be making a DVD of his own available soon. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:44 AM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder failure I was asking about any rudder failures because there are only eight A 5 rivets that are in "tension" not shear holding the top hinges on..... I would think that an adhesive ( structural ) like J B Weld would be a good addition and for peace for my mind.... SW ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:31 AM PST US From: GeorgeM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: BMW Motor Mounts? Hi SockPuppet61, Here are some interesting links for BMW engine: http://www.takeoff-ul.de/ - This is Wilfried Bleidiesel site. He sells BMW engines. And here is one of the guys who is flying it: http://www.spang-air.de/willkommen/BMW_Engine/bmw_engine.html Here is picture taken at Wilfried shop showing old and new prop shafts: http://www.propellers.us/misc/propshafts.JPG Hope all this info is what you looking for. George M. Westbury NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "SockPuppet61" Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: BMW Motor Mounts? > > What BMW engines generate 100HP? > > It occurred to me that BMWs were so smooth in operation and durable that > they would be the only motorcycle engine I'd think of for bolting on to a > small airplane. > > Anyway, maybe the crankshaft isn't strong enough for air work, I'd like to > hear from anybody flying one. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140883#140883 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:32 AM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder failure I would never even consider a rigid epoxy like that for that application, T he hinges are subject to peeling forces from the spar. If the basic design is not to your satisfaction, then maybe something like assembling with ProS eal 890 sealant would be an "improvement" as it is trememdously tough and l oves peel. In any case the proper cleaning amnd preparation of the aluminum is critical as the durability of the bond is pretty severely compromised d ue to corrosion issues - yes, even with 6061...=0A=0ADave Downey=0AHarleysv ille (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom : steve =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASe nt: Saturday, October 20, 2007 1:29:10 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Rudder fa ilure=0A=0A=0AI was asking about any rudder failures because there are only eight A 5 rivets that are in "tension" not shear holding the top hinges on .....=0AI would think that an adhesive ( structural ) like J B Weld would b =======================0A=0A___ o.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:43 AM PST US From: "Eric Tiethoff" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: BMW Motor Mounts? Did you ever wonder why there isn't any motorcycle with a Lycoming, Rotax or Jabiru- engine ? -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] Namens SockPuppet61 Verzonden: zaterdag 20 oktober 2007 18:58 Aan: zenith-list@matronics.com Onderwerp: Zenith-List: Re: BMW Motor Mounts? --> What BMW engines generate 100HP? It occurred to me that BMWs were so smooth in operation and durable that they would be the only motorcycle engine I'd think of for bolting on to a small airplane. Anyway, maybe the crankshaft isn't strong enough for air work, I'd like to hear from anybody flying one. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140883#140883 -- Mijn Postvak In wordt beschermd door SPAMfighter. 1635 spam-mails zijn er tot op heden geblokkeerd. Download de gratis SPAMfighter via deze link: http://www.spamfighter.com/lnl ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:53 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rudder Failure From: "Dave Nixon" Is it possible to lose a rudder? I am sure that it is if a side canopy comes off and smashes thru it. But in flight, the rudder wants to stay in line with the fuselage and VERY little peddle is required to change the aircraft direction. Keeping these two hinge points as part of the pre-flight inspection is, in my mind, mandatory. However, dreading the rudder falling off is not even on my radar screen. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140903#140903 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:33 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Upgrade for Garmin 296 Color GPS At that price I don't think they are replacing the LCD itself. I'm guessing they are replacing the LED backlight with brighter LEDs. Did they give any details? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:29 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder failure Steve, Just because you can imagine the tension, you can also nearly feel the rivets letting go. That is a lot of wind, but seriously, you'd also be able to tell they were letting go by looking at the hinge fit. It would be very distorted and obviously impinging on rudder movement. If you drilled the right size holes for the right size rivet, I don't think you're going to live long enough to see them pull out. I wouldn't mess with the glue because you may have reason to salvage the rudder or the hinges one day. Of course, I didn't mean that you wouldn't live long for any reason, well, you know what I mean. Ha! Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com steve wrote: > I was asking about any rudder failures because there are only eight A > 5 rivets that are in "tension" not shear holding the top hinges on..... > I would think that an adhesive ( structural ) like J B Weld would be a > good addition and for peace for my mind.... > > SW > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flight Simulator files for CH701 From: "kmccune" I found the site for the Sim CH 701 file :D http://www.simviation.com/downloads.html Sorry for the wait. Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140919#140919 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:54 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rudder Failure Hey Dave, I under stand what you are thinking about,you must remember the people that designed aircraft are engineers they don't Think what the strengh is ,they Know what it is !or at least I hope they do If you want to think about something.. take a look at that thin ass piece of break metal witl a couple of 1"flat bars at the top and bottom and it is called a Main Spar BUT it is enginnered for the 601 and there a lot of them flying.. Fly safe and dont worry It won' do any good any way.. Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Nixon" Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rudder Failure > > Is it possible to lose a rudder? I am sure that it is if a side canopy > comes off and smashes thru it. But in flight, the rudder wants to stay in > line with the fuselage and VERY little peddle is required to change the > aircraft direction. Keeping these two hinge points as part of the > pre-flight inspection is, in my mind, mandatory. However, dreading the > rudder falling off is not even on my radar screen. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140903#140903 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:35 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon system with XL senders I am wondering how the senders used in the XL fuel tanks work with the Dynon system? How accurate have you found them? I want to get the senders bent up, but if there is a different system for the Dynon's, I need to get them. Thanks for the info! Larry Husky 601XL / Corvair ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:44 PM PST US From: george may Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dynon system with XL senders Larry-- I'm using the senders supplied by Zenith and a Dynon 180 for the fuel inf o. I've had good luck with the combination. The readings appear to be reas onably accurate, especially at the low end. I also have the fuel flow opti on from Dynon. I would highly recommend it. I tend to use it more than the guages. If nothing else, it acts as a good cross check Good luck George May 601XL 912s 163 hours From: LHusky@aol.comDate: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:57:04 -0400Subject: Zenith-Li st: Dynon system with XL senders To: zenith-list@matronics.com I am wondering how the senders used in the XL fuel tanks work with the Dyno n system? How accurate have you found them? I want to get the senders be nt up, but if there is a different system for the Dynon's, I need to get th em. Thanks for the info! Larry Husky 601XL / Corvair See w _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:58 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon system with XL senders Great! I had forgot to ask about the fuel flow option. Thanks for the information. Larry ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:41 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Extra stuff needed to complete the 601XL Airframe From: "PatrickW" naumuk(at)alltel.net wrote: > Did you buy a kit, or are you scratchbuilding? I'm building from component kits. Feel like I'm on the "home stretch" now with the Fuselage kit sitting in my garage... :D Zentith has been 100% accurate so far in packing what they say the pack, as there is a shipping list that is included with the individual parts checked off, which I double check. But in this case I don't think they intended to include the particular nuts, since they don't appear on the pick list. They're just simple "jam nuts", so I think I'll "home depot" them and press on. Thanks, Patrick XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140946#140946 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:10 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday From: "PatrickW" shilcom wrote: > Was that cruise speed a typo. surely you did better than 100 mph. No, not a typo. I should have asked about the prop - I bet it was a "climb prop". Climb performance was pretty good, and I know that density altitude is an issue during the summer time in Arizona. I'll fly it again next time I'm in the area and find out some more. But it sure was a nice handling airplane, and I'd be happy with it. Patrick XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140947#140947 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:04 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: OK 701 flyers, what does it really cruise at with your engine,weight empty +mods ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:27 PM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: BMW Motor Mounts? At 02:44 PM 10/20/2007, you wrote: > > >Did you ever wonder why there isn't any motorcycle with a Lycoming, Rotax or >Jabiru- engine ? > > I have not wondered this because it is untrue. Jim Pollard ch601 hds ea81 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:07 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Extra stuff needed to complete the 601XL Airframe > > >I'm building from component kits. Feel like I'm on the "home >stretch" now with the Fuselage kit sitting in my garage... :D > >Zentith has been 100% accurate so far in packing what they say the >pack, as there is a shipping list that is included with the >individual parts checked off, which I double check. > >But in this case I don't think they intended to include the >particular nuts, since they don't appear on the pick list. They're >just simple "jam nuts", so I think I'll "home depot" them and press on. > >Thanks, > >Patrick >XL/Corvair Hi Patrick, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you. While ZAC does a fine job of producing its kits, they are not indeed complete enough to end up with a flying airplane when you finish using up the parts. One of the new skills I have learned building my XL is how to find and order proper aircraft grade materials and hardware. Perhaps this is a good time for you to start doing this as well. A good place to start looking is Aircraft Spruce which can be found on the web at http://www.aircraftspruce.com/ The jam nuts you want can be found under "hardware AN316". You will probably find they are less expensive for mil. spec. parts than your local hardware store is for junk steel parts. Alas, you will have to pay for shipping and the art of selecting a shipping method for any given order is part of the learning curve. I can't tell you exactly what needs you will have as you get closer to completion of your plane. I can tell you what sort of things I have run into as I finish the fuselage of mine. My most recent tasks have involved connecting the brake cylinders (from the kit) to the wheel calipers (also from the kit). To do this I designed a new fairing and nylon support to pass the brake line (which I also procured myself - I didn't like the quality of plastic used in the kit part supplied) through the cabin floor. This required finding bolts (AN3-4A) and nuts along with clamps (AN742-D4) to hold the line in place against the skin and grommets (AN931-4-7) to support the brake line as it passes through newly designed fairings for the rear of the main gear spring. I have also been working on a design for the place where the nose steering tie rods pass through the firewall. The drawings from ZAC leave this as an open wound in the firewall. I ordered some 4130 tubing from Aircraft Spruce (AKA "AS") that just fits over the threaded rod supplied in the kit and am working on welding a hook for a spring to hold my new flat 4130 piece in place on the front of the firewall. I am currently on a side track learning how to TIG weld the parts I want for the firewall. This is probably excessive since I already know how to weld with oxy/acetylene, but I wasn't happy with the work quality on such small parts. Again, this is all about learning new skills so I am happy with the diversion. The point I am trying to make is you will probably need to do many such things as you near completion of your plane. You certainly will need to deal with things like engine, instruments, and perhaps some arrangements to allow your annual inspections to go smoothly. If you follow the drawings you will need to stand on your head with your feet bumping into the canopy to look at the rudder pedals and brake cylinders on the cabin floor You may find all of this a fun challenge. If you feel stuck at any point you can always post a question on this list and you will surely get swift and useful answers. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage (Still nearing completion after 17 months on just the fuselage) .. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:00 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday At 07:31 PM 10/20/2007, you wrote: > > Was that cruise speed a typo. surely you did better than 100 mph. > >No, not a typo. I should have asked about the prop - I bet it was a >"climb prop". Climb performance was pretty good, and I know that >density altitude is an issue during the summer time in Arizona. If you look at the AMD speed specifications you will see cruise at 130 mph true airspeed. This probably translates to a real indicated cruise speed of 100 mph as reported. There is a reason we don't hear much about XL builders using Continental O-200 engines. I suspect AMD chose this path because its customers (established FBO/Flight schools) already are familiar with this engine and they don't really care about cruise speed. I see a similar phenomenon with the new Cessna 162 that is selling like hot-cakes with a Lycoming engine even though it's porky empty weight of 830 pounds doesn't allow two adult Americans to fly in it at the same time. This plodding cruise speed is one of the reasons we are building our planes from kits or plans instead of buying factory built compromises. We all want recreational flying craft rather than primary trainers. Paul XL fuselage do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:05 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Extra stuff needed to complete the 601XL Airframe Gents, the home depot aviation dept is useful for such things as wood for forms and small non critical things, but when it comes to nuts and bolts PLEASE PLEASE only install AN hardware. The AN hardware is a superior manufacturing process with far stricter guide lines. Scrimp on lexan and paint but not on the things that hold your plane together, remember you would shutter at the thoughts of actually using POP rivets to hold your plane together opposed to Avex blind rivets. You should also feel the same shutter for using low grade nuts and bolts. Mark From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Extra stuff needed to complete the 601XL Airframe But in this case I don't think they intended to include the particular nuts, since they don't appear on the pick list. They're just simple "jam nuts", so I think I'll "home depot" them and press on. Thanks, Patrick XL/Corvair 2:59 PM ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:22 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday The decision to go with the 0-200 is likely a cost issue, in order to get SLSA approval a certified engine such as the 0-200 makes the process a lot easier. Also the target purchaser, he is typically a gent who is afraid to lose his medical. Typically an older fellow who knows the 0-200 and has in all likely hood flown behind one at some point. So in order to keep flying he switches to the LSA category and looks for something he is comfortable with and does not have to learn. Is it the best choice, maybe, I have a preference for the Jabiru configuration, but it is not as popular to the older crowd who just want to continue flying and not have to learn about a new powerplant. As for the Hot cake Cessna, it is nice for a company to have so many schools/ dealers that they can tell to purchase a new plane, It may be selling like hotcakes on paper but it is going down hard without the syrup for a lot of dealers that have been forced to buy it. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:27 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Flew an AMD 601XL yesterday At 07:31 PM 10/20/2007, you wrote: > > Was that cruise speed a typo. surely you did better than 100 mph. > >No, not a typo. I should have asked about the prop - I bet it was a >"climb prop". Climb performance was pretty good, and I know that >density altitude is an issue during the summer time in Arizona. If you look at the AMD speed specifications you will see cruise at 130 mph true airspeed. This probably translates to a real indicated cruise speed of 100 mph as reported. There is a reason we don't hear much about XL builders using Continental O-200 engines. I suspect AMD chose this path because its customers (established FBO/Flight schools) already are familiar with this engine and they don't really care about cruise speed. I see a similar phenomenon with the new Cessna 162 that is selling like hot-cakes with a Lycoming engine even though it's porky empty weight of 830 pounds doesn't allow two adult Americans to fly in it at the same time. This plodding cruise speed is one of the reasons we are building our planes from kits or plans instead of buying factory built compromises. We all want recreational flying craft rather than primary trainers. Paul XL fuselage do not archive 2:59 PM 2:59 PM ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:37 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Hard Drive Failure Just to let a few of you know, recently I have suffered a hard drive failure in my server, this is causing me a lot of hardship in posting some replies and retrieving information. I hope to be fully recovered by next week. So if your waiting for a letter from me please be patient, if you do not hear from me by weeks end then please re-send your letter. Presently I am bound to my workshops laptop and blackberry for E-Mails. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation 2:59 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.