Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:26 AM - Re: Re: Larger Brake (Debo Cox)
2. 04:45 AM - Re: Larger Brake (ashontz)
3. 05:18 AM - Re: VDO sender installation instructions for the LE tanks on an HD model (Jaybannist@cs.com)
4. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: Larger Brake (William Dominguez)
5. 06:05 AM - Re: LLC (dfmoeller)
6. 06:09 AM - Re: Rib Form measurement (Maarten Versteeg)
7. 06:16 AM - Re: Tachometer for Jabiru 2200A (Pete Krotje)
8. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: Rib Form measurement (Ron Lalonde)
9. 07:36 AM - Re: LLC (steveadams)
10. 07:51 AM - Re: VDO sender installation instructions for the LE tanks on an (Gig Giacona)
11. 08:04 AM - Re: lighting minihelic (George Race)
12. 08:24 AM - Re: Larger Brake (TxDave)
13. 08:57 AM - Re: Re: VDO sender installation instructions for the LE tanks on an ()
14. 09:25 AM - Re: VDO sender installation instructions for the LE tanks on an (Gig Giacona)
15. 09:28 AM - Re: VDO sender installation instructions for the LE tanks on an HD model (a.f.rupp@ATT.NET)
16. 11:09 AM - 801 flaperon defection (Tracy)
17. 11:46 AM - Re: LLC (robert stone)
18. 11:49 AM - Re: Larger Brake (ashontz)
19. 11:53 AM - Re: Proseal Use (ashontz)
20. 12:01 PM - Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (ashontz)
21. 12:02 PM - Painting (steve)
22. 12:09 PM - Re: Do You Have Plans for Sale (Dan Forney)
23. 12:39 PM - Re: Painting (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
24. 01:04 PM - Re: Painting (steve)
25. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: Proseal Use ()
26. 01:18 PM - Re: Re: lighting minihelic ()
27. 01:34 PM - Re: LLC ()
28. 01:38 PM - A new thread ()
29. 02:39 PM - Re: LLC (Papa Foxtrot)
30. 02:58 PM - Re: A new thread (Paul Mulwitz)
31. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (Bill Naumuk)
32. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: Larger Brake (Graeme)
33. 03:42 PM - Re: A new thread (Gig Giacona)
34. 03:56 PM - chat (Rob St Denis)
35. 04:30 PM - Re: 801 flaperon defection (n801bh@netzero.com)
36. 04:38 PM - Re: lighting minihelic (leinad)
37. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (Art Gibeaut)
38. 04:47 PM - Re: lighting minihelic (leinad)
39. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: A new thread (Jaybannist@cs.com)
40. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: A new thread (Sean Moore)
41. 05:04 PM - Re: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. (Sean Moore)
42. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: A new thread (raymondj)
43. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: VDO sender installation instructions for the LE tanks on an (Jeff)
44. 06:15 PM - Anodized Aluminum and other exotic technologies. (Paul Mulwitz)
45. 06:16 PM - Re: A new thread (David Downey)
46. 06:17 PM - Re:801 flaperon deflection (Tracy)
47. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: A new thread (Jaybannist@cs.com)
48. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: A new thread (David Downey)
49. 08:24 PM - Re: A new thread (Gig Giacona)
50. 08:42 PM - Stolen Aircraft (Mack Kreizenbeck)
51. 09:52 PM - Re: A new thread (Jimbo)
52. 10:20 PM - Re: Larger Brake (TxDave)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Larger Brake |
I'm with Dave on this one. I've bent every piece of metal on my airplane with the
simple, effective, inexpensive brake he designed and my standards are pretty
high. Granted, sometimes it takes an extra piece of angle or "c" clamp or two,
but if you can't get the results you're looking for, you ain't using your noodle
enough.
For the scratchbuilder, I really view a cost-effective, functional bending brake
as a "deal breaker." If you don't have one, it ain't gonna happen. There are
a actually a few good designs out there. Choose the one that works for you.
I chose to experiment with Dave's design and have found it to be more than adequate
for bending anything on the XL. If you use it in conjunction with Larry
Winger's Excel Bend Line Spreadsheet, you're bending like the big boys.
Personally, I'd like to thank both of these guys for sharing their innovative
ideas with this list at no charge to any of us. After all, if I could have come
up with something better myself, then I wouldn't have needed their ideas in
the first place, huh?
Keep drillin' fellas
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
www.mykitlog.com/debo
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Larger Brake |
Hey, sorry, looks like it works well then. All I know is my brake. even made out
of the same heavy steel, would not make a straight enough bend for my tastes
until I put the tensioner bar on the top clamp piece. Obviously you can bend
a deep wide skin and that's good. I'm just surprised it can do it without the
tensioner. Without the tensioner on mine, I noticed a slight banana shape to the
part. If you can get away without the tensioner for some reason that's great,
I'm honestly surprised it doesn't need one considering the distance between
the clamp bolts.
TxDave wrote:
> Excuse me. If you use a little of the gray matter God put between your ears,
you can bend ANYTHING you'll need for the 601XL with my brake.
>
> "Deep skins"??? I'm guessing that means control surface skins like flaps and
ailerons. They are not a problem (see attached photos).
>
> Folks...if you have any questions about the free brake plans I have been happily
providing for over a year now, just ask me. Don't rely on someone else's assumptions.
>
> Dave Clay
> Temple, TX
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142456#142456
Message 3
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| Subject: | VDO sender installation instructions for the LE tanks |
on an HD model
Jeff,
I tried to send you the instructions from the Zenith CD, but it was too large to
go. If you will send me (directly) your address and phone number, I'll FedEx
it to you today.
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
"Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net> wrote:
>It is time for me to install and hook up the senders in my Leading Edge
>tanks on my HD wings now that they are on the plane. Does anyone have a
>copy of the installation instructions for the VDO float senders from ZAC? I
>can't seem to find mine. I remember there were some instructions about how
>to bend the float arm. That is what I'm most interested in. Thanks .
>
>Jeff Davidson
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Larger Brake |
Ok Dave relax, me and I think Andy got your point. Getting your blood boiling (seems
like it based on how you answered) over this might be hazardous for your
health . We all agree that your brake is the best and most practical for our
purpose. The reason I didn't build your brake is because yours came out after
I build mine.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
Excuse me. If you use a little of the gray matter God put between your ears, you
can bend ANYTHING you'll need for the 601XL with my brake.
"Deep skins"??? I'm guessing that means control surface skins like flaps and ailerons.
They are not a problem (see attached photos).
Folks...if you have any questions about the free brake plans I have been happily
providing for over a year now, just ask me. Don't rely on someone else's assumptions.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142432#142432
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bend1_115.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bend2_214.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bend3_103.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skin_161.jpg
Message 5
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While creating an LLC might shield you from liability arising from owning and operating
the craft, the big issue is liability arising from building the craft.
I'm not an attorney, but is seems clear that someone must be the builder.
I don't think an LLC can build for educational reasons. So, I wouldn't think
the LLC would do you any good as protection against build related issues.
Doug
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142473#142473
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Form measurement |
Hello Ron,
I have seen Randy's pictures, I agree, these seem to
be bend the other way, I don't know how this fits
with my drawings. I think this is an issue with an
older design, if you look on the Zenith web site with
their free example drawings then 6W6 (from 2000)is
different from my drawing and indeed states that the
rib flanges for a number of the ribs are bend the
other way. They may have changed this for fabrication
convenience as it is easier when working with a single
form block to bend all flanges the same way.
Even the photo guide is confusing, one of the pictures
shows the rib supports (the small vertical L-angles on
the inboard side of rib #1-4), but all the drawings
show these supports in between the rib flanges so on
the outside of rib #1.
Regards,
Maarten
Ron Lalonde wrote:
> Hi Maarten
> I agree with you. On the DVD metal scratchbuilding video and on Randy
> Bryants homebuilding site there are pictures of the ribs with the spar
> flange on the rib bent 90 degrees in the opposite direction (see
> http://www.n344rb.com) and you will see what I mean. Until I can confirm
> whether or not this is the correct way, I am holding off on my 1-4 ribs.
> Cannot find any reference to this in the plans, but I am sure it is
> there somewhere one way or the other..
> Will keep you posted on what I find out
> Ron
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:15:21 -0500
> > From: maarten.versteeg@swri.org
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rib Form measurement
> >
> <maarten.versteeg@swri.org>
> >
> > Hello Ron,
> >
> > I don't know which flanges you are referring to, I finished
> > all ribs and am assembling the wing, but all flanges on each
> > of the ribs are bend in the same direction. Rib 4 is different
> > in the sense that the left and right rib are swapped so the
> > wing locker has the smooth side. Also on the rib with the
> > bell-crank the flanges for the two rear lightening holes are
> > in the opposite direction.
> > This is the way I did all, did I do it wrong or .......
> >
> > Regards,
> > Maarten
> > 601XL - plans building wings
> >
> > > Time: 11:51:14 PM PST US
> > > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rib Form measurement
> > > From: "rlalonde" <rlalonde@HOTMAIL.COM>
> > >
> > > Hi Gang
> > > On the rear ribs, the top, bottom and spar flanges are bent in the
> same direction
> > > (according to note on the bottom right of 6-W-6). of course they
> are installed
> > > either facing inboard or outboard as stipulated.
> > >
> > > Watching the Metal working DVD I noticed that Rib 3 has the spar
> flange bent
> > > 90 degrees opposite to the rest of the flanges. What other ribs
> have this?? Not
> > > clear, at least not to me in the plans. Anyone know where this info
> is??
> > > Actually, I think I am staying up too late at night in the
> workshop. Sorry for
> > > asking so many questions. Just when I think things are as "clear as
> mud" I end
> > > up second guessing myself.
> > > Ron
> > > 601XL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Send a smile, make someone laugh, have some fun! Start now!
> <http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122>
--
Maarten Versteeg Southwest Research Institute
Phone: (210)522-5029 P.O. Drawer 28510
Fax: (210)522-5499 San Antonio, TX 78228-0510
Message 7
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| Subject: | Tachometer for Jabiru 2200A |
Try a UMA 19-819-105. They work very well. www.umainstruments.com
<http://www.umainstruments.com/>
Pete
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Race
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:33 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Tachometer for Jabiru 2200A
I Need some advise from the group.
I am going to have a Grand Rapids System EIS, which I know will show the
engine RPM.
I also want to have a "steam gauge" Tachometer as well in the panel in front
of me.
Can someone please give me the manufacturers name and part number of a
suitable 3 1/8 inch Tach that will work with the 2200A. Would really like
one that has a maximum range of 3500 RPM, but any up to 5000 RPM would
probably work OK as well.
Thanks,
George
Building CH701 (N73EX Reserved)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Form measurement |
Hi Maarten
I phoned Roger at ZAC this morning. Just got off the phone. As per our dra
wings, all the spar flanges on the ribs are indeed bent in the same directi
on as the top, bottom and rear flanges of the rib.
Apparently the older plans did this differently. Still, I am happy to put m
y mind at ease that I am going down the right path.
It is sure nice to have people to talk to and email to clarify any problem
s that are encountered.
Mark Townsend up at Can-Zac is also especially helpful....and I am sure tha
t he must shake his head when he sees my name on his call display when the
phone rings!!! LOL
Ronxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Hello Ron,> > I have seen Randy's pictures,
I agree, these seem to> be bend the other way, I don't know how this fits>
with my drawings. I think this is an issue with an> older design, if you lo
ok on the Zenith web site with> their free example drawings then 6W6 (from
2000)is> different from my drawing and indeed states that the> rib flanges
for a number of the ribs are bend the> other way. They may have changed thi
s for fabrication> convenience as it is easier when working with a single>
form block to bend all flanges the same way.> Even the photo guide is confu
sing, one of the pictures> shows the rib supports (the small vertical L-ang
les on> the inboard side of rib #1-4), but all the drawings> show these sup
ports in between the rib flanges so on> the outside of rib #1.> > Regards,>
Maarten> > Ron Lalonde wrote:> > Hi Maarten> > I agree with you. On the DV
D metal scratchbuilding video and on Randy > > Bryants homebuilding site th
ere are pictures of the ribs with the spar > > flange on the rib bent 90 de
grees in the opposite direction (see > > http://www.n344rb.com) and you wil
l see what I mean. Until I can confirm > > whether or not this is the corre
ct way, I am holding off on my 1-4 ribs.> > Cannot find any reference to th
is in the plans, but I am sure it is > > there somewhere one way or the oth
er..> > Will keep you posted on what I find out> > Ron> > > > > > >
_________________________________________________________________
Are you ready for Windows Live Messenger Beta 8.5 ? Get the latest for free
today!
http://entertainment.sympatico.msn.ca/WindowsLiveMessenger
Message 9
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Not a lawyer, but here's my opinion. There are really 3 areas of liability of concern;
building, owning, and flying an experimental. A builder must be an individual.
You cannot apply for the AW certificate as an LLC, so whatever liability
you have as the builder is not mitigated by the LLC. As a pilot, you are personally
liable for whatever mistakes you may make that lead to an accident.
An LLC has no effect here. As the owner, you may have some liability for an accident,
however, in most cases this is overshadowed by pilot liability since both
(pilot and owner) are usually the same, and most accidents are pilot error
in some way or another. An LLC may possibly offer a little protection here. If
you will have others flying your airplane often, it may be worth looking into.
Most people trying to limit their personal liability go at it backwards as
in this case. If really concerned, the best way to protect yourself is to legally
separate yourself from everything of value that you currently own. That way,
folks can sue you and win all day long, however you'll have nothing of value
to give them. For instance, having your aircraft owned by an LLC will protect
it from creditors should you be sued for something not related to the aircraft,
but will do little to protect you from liability related to operating the
aircraft.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142498#142498
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: VDO sender installation instructions for the LE tanks |
on an
I've got it but I won't be at the airport until next weekend. If you still need
it then send me an e-mail off list and I'll scan it and e-mail it to you.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142504#142504
Message 11
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| Subject: | RE: lighting minihelic |
Hi Dan:
You can do a very nice job of lighting an instrument with a small red LED.
The small "grain of wheat" size works well.
Remove the instrument from its case.
Remove the glass lens from the case.
Drill a small hole the size of the small LED from the outside of the case to
where the edge of the glass fits into the case.
Install and epoxy the led into the hole so that it just barely touches the
glass when installed.
Hook the LED, with a proper series resistor to a 12 volt source. Do not
hook it to the panel dimmer control.
Although it cannot be successfully dimmed, it will cast a nice red glow on
the face of the instrument. The glass acts as a conductor of the light and
provides nice even illumination.
George
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Larger Brake |
OK, I'll chill out, Bill. Thanks for your concern about my health. I just wanted
to make sure folks who might be considering building from plans are getting
the straight poop on my brake. Andy's a good guy who frequently takes the time
to be an active member of this group. Nothing wrong with stimulating a good discussion.
For anyone interested in building my brake, please be sure to get the latest version
of the plans from my website. I've included some bending tips. Also, I would
recommend you use the $6.00 stainless steel hinges available from Air Parts,
Inc. and steel cherry rivets (MSP-54) from Aircraft Spruce.
Later,
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
http://www.daves601xl.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142511#142511
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: VDO sender installation instructions for the LE |
tanks on an
I don't know much about the HD and HDS but I believe their airfoil is very different
from a 601XL. Given that difference, is the shape of the wing tank different
as well? If the shape of the tank is different the bend pattern recommended
for a 601XL tank sensor arm might be very different from the pattern recommended
for an HD or an HDS. It might be a good idea to call the factory and get
the pattern or the missing assembly guide page file sent out.
It's just a thought,
Dred
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: VDO sender installation instructions for the LE tanks |
on an
The VDO sender comes with a set of instructions that are not aircraft specific.
The table takes in several dimensions of the tank.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142524#142524
Message 15
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| Subject: | VDO sender installation instructions for the LE tanks |
on an HD model
Go to http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6k1b-fuel-sender.pdf and download from the Zenith site.
Adjust the arm to get the travel you need, checking with an Ohm meter for indication.
You should be able to work it out if nobody else has a better idea.
Al Rupp 601XL
-------------- Original message from Jaybannist@cs.com: --------------
>
> Jeff,
>
> I tried to send you the instructions from the Zenith CD, but it was too large
to
> go. If you will send me (directly) your address and phone number, I'll FedEx
it
> to you today.
>
> Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
>
<html>
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<head></head>
<body>
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Go to <A href="http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6k1b-fuel-sender.pdf">http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6k1b-fuel-sender.pdf</A> and download from the Zenith site.</P>
<P>Adjust the arm to get the travel you need, checking with an Ohm meter for indication.
You should be able to work it out if nobody else has a better idea.</P>
<P>Al Rupp 601XL<BR></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message from Jaybannist@cs.com: --------------
<BR><BR><BR>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jaybannist@cs.com <BR>>
<BR>> Jeff, <BR>> <BR>> I tried to send you the instructions from
the Zenith CD, but it was too large to <BR>> go. If you will send me (directly)
your address and phone number, I'll FedEx it <BR>> to you today. <BR>>
<BR>> Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J <BR>></BLOCKQUOTE>
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 16
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| Subject: | 801 flaperon defection |
can anyone tell me if the total flaperon defection on an 801 is 30 degress with
full flaperon defection or 30 degress plus the 13 degress of flaperon defaction,and
has anyone had to adjust their electic flap motor stops or just used the
factory settings?
the flaperon bellcracks rubs the floor skin with that much movement
Tracy
Message 17
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Matt or other interested parties.
Here is a legal document drawn up by a lawyer and recomended for
use when selling an experemental aircraft. I am not a lawyer and I do
not know how much value this document would have to a seller being sued
by survivors of someone killed or injured in the aircraft that was sold.
I offer it for information only.
Bob Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt & Jo
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 9:06 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: LLC
Hello all,
I am getting close to submitting my paper work to the FAA and thought
I would throw this out.
Has any one registered their home built as an LLC. I have some
friends that have their aircraft registered to their LLC and they are
hoping to avoid liability when or if they sell. I am not sure if it is
worth the hassle or if it really will do much. I am not sure that there
is really that much risk from layers on private individuals. There just
isn't that much money to go after. It is not like going after a large
company. There was a good article in Kitplanes or EAA a couple months
back.
Anyway. Would like to hear opinions on ways to reduce/manage
liability.
Getting close to moving to the hangar.
Cheers
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Larger Brake |
Dave, how do you keep the clamp from deflecting on a deep skin that's rather wide?
I'm using the same type of angle iron (1/4" thick by 3.5" by 3.5") and without
my tensioner in the middle, the clamp nose (is that what it's called) deflects
a bit. Maybe the way you have it laying flat versus mine inverted with the
two edges down like an upside down V tends to deflect more? I don't know? I'm
just curious. As beefy as those angle irons are, over an 8' span between clamp
points is still a lot of pressure pushing in. Granted, the largest full width
skin is the elevator, and in general the skins are .025 and less. Even so,
it only takes a millimeter difference in the middle vs the ends to eff up your
day. :)
For bending brakes that really only require hand tools to make though, I think
they're both good.
TxDave wrote:
> OK, I'll chill out, Bill. Thanks for your concern about my health. I just wanted
to make sure folks who might be considering building from plans are getting
the straight poop on my brake. Andy's a good guy who frequently takes the time
to be an active member of this group. Nothing wrong with stimulating a good
discussion.
>
> For anyone interested in building my brake, please be sure to get the latest
version of the plans from my website. I've included some bending tips. Also, I
would recommend you use the $6.00 stainless steel hinges available from Air Parts,
Inc. and steel cherry rivets (MSP-54) from Aircraft Spruce.
>
> Later,
> Dave Clay
> Temple, TX
> http://www.daves601xl.com
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142556#142556
Message 19
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Just out of curiosity, how does this ProSeal compare to say Permatex gasket sealer?
Not that I'm thinking of using that stuff, just curious as to a comparison.
From they way people describe it, it sounds like a similar filthy product that's
seals well and is hard as hell to get off of anything.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142559#142559
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| Subject: | Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. |
I made the mistake once of mentioning what something was going to be used for when
I went to Fazzio's in Glassboro, NJ looking for 6061-T6. The guy gave me a
big lecture like he was a friggin' pro or something. He probably gave me an earful
because he couldn't be sure that what he had labeled as 6061-T6 was actually
that. LOL Considering the place is generally a junkhole, albeit they have
some good stuff there, I'd never buy anything structural from them labeled 6061-T6.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142561#142561
Message 21
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Questions about painting....
My fuselage came with zinc chromate primer and thats not a problem.
What I d like to know is this: The wings and tail are bare aluminum.
What did you do to paint your aluminum ?
In the past I ve use Alodine and then painted. That seemed to work
good. However the Auto paint store suggested to continue with zinc
chromate. I really would like to keep the weight down and the labor
less......
I dont recall if aircraft paint shops "prime before paint ??
Steve
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| Subject: | Re: Do You Have Plans for Sale |
I am abandoning my 601XL project and would like to sell the fuselage kit
(includes the dual-stick option), plans & drawings, etc. Project is located
in the Portland Oregon area. I have about $6000.00 into plans & kit pieces.
I am asking $4000.00 OBO.
Thanks,
Dan
Message 23
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Steve, I can't advise you as to what's best. I can tell you that the Zinc C
will bleed through paint. On my XL I used PPG two part epoxy primer (two light
coats) and two coats of PPG single stage polyuithine. On the left wing bottom
near the pitot tube bracket the ZC bled through all four coats. I cannot
recommend you try to paint over the stuff, Course, if you do and it looks okay
thats great, just what happened to me. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
**************************************
Message 24
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Thanks Bill
What I have done so far and that was recommended by the auto paint guy
is this: I used a sealer/primer over the zinc chromate. The sealer is
to stop bleeding thru of the ZC. I guess the auto paint guy is sharp on
whats best. I did not want the expense of more ZC primer and want to
not use it, period. I dont think aircraft paint shops use ZC always.
They ( I think ) use Alodine as an etch and then paint. Thought I d ask
here on the website.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Painting
Steve, I can't advise you as to what's best. I can tell you that the
Zinc C will bleed through paint. On my XL I used PPG two part epoxy
primer (two light coats) and two coats of PPG single stage polyuithine.
On the left wing bottom near the pitot tube bracket the ZC bled through
all four coats. I cannot recommend you try to paint over the stuff,
Course, if you do and it looks okay thats great, just what happened to
me. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
****************
Message 25
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Think epoxy that remains in a tough as hell, rubbery state forever (or longer if
it's on something you don;t want it on).
Dred
Do Not Archive
---- ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
>
> Just out of curiosity, how does this ProSeal compare to say Permatex gasket sealer?
Not that I'm thinking of using that stuff, just curious as to a comparison.
From they way people describe it, it sounds like a similar filthy product
that's seals well and is hard as hell to get off of anything.
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142559#142559
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: RE: lighting minihelic |
There's also another way: Some years ago a masked outlaw broke into my
Skyhawk. He took a sheet of 1/8th inch plexiglas and duplicated the
instrument panel cover, making cutouts for each instrument and the pegs
on the back of the cover. This arch fiend then proceeded to run wires
and wheat-grain bulbs, in parallel,two for each instrument (roughly 10
and 2 oclock) and poked the bulbs through appropriately-sized holes in
the plastic. This evil monster then inserted the package under the stock
panel cover, and ran the wires to the existing rheostat. After
performing his hideous deed, he skulked away in the dark of the night
and I never saw him again. I am still incensed that someone would to
this to a perfectly good certified aircraft. I will never forgive him
for bathing each instrument in a controllable glow. Now that I think
about it, he may have done the same dastardly deed on other unsuspecting
aircraft, but in red plastic. Someday I may report that vandal.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: George Race<mailto:mykitairplane@mrrace.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:03 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: lighting minihelic
Hi Dan:
You can do a very nice job of lighting an instrument with a small red
LED. The small "grain of wheat" size works well.
Remove the instrument from its case.
Remove the glass lens from the case.
Drill a small hole the size of the small LED from the outside of the
case to where the edge of the glass fits into the case.
Install and epoxy the led into the hole so that it just barely touches
the glass when installed.
Hook the LED, with a proper series resistor to a 12 volt source. Do
not hook it to the panel dimmer control.
Although it cannot be successfully dimmed, it will cast a nice red
glow on the face of the instrument. The glass acts as a conductor of
the light and provides nice even illumination.
George
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
Message 27
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That's a nice document, but I would add another paragraph:
"Seller warrants and guarantees to buyer that operation of said
aircraft, including its removal from ground level, will result in one of
four occurances on each and every occasion:
a: Personal enjoyment
b: Minor injury
c: Serious injury
d: Death"
Then, no matter what happens "Buyer knew or should have known,.....:"
etc
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: robert stone<mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: LLC
Matt or other interested parties.
Here is a legal document drawn up by a lawyer and recomended for
use when selling an experemental aircraft. I am not a lawyer and I do
not know how much value this document would have to a seller being sued
by survivors of someone killed or injured in the aircraft that was sold.
I offer it for information only.
Bob Stone
Harker Heights, Tx
ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt & Jo<mailto:archermj@swbell.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 9:06 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: LLC
Hello all,
I am getting close to submitting my paper work to the FAA and
thought I would throw this out.
Has any one registered their home built as an LLC. I have some
friends that have their aircraft registered to their LLC and they are
hoping to avoid liability when or if they sell. I am not sure if it is
worth the hassle or if it really will do much. I am not sure that there
is really that much risk from layers on private individuals. There just
isn't that much money to go after. It is not like going after a large
company. There was a good article in Kitplanes or EAA a couple months
back.
Anyway. Would like to hear opinions on ways to reduce/manage
liability.
Getting close to moving to the hangar.
Cheers
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com<http://www.zodiacxl.com/>.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 28
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Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum in
colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say,
blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint for
some nice stripes and the N-number.
Let the games begin!
Paul Rodriguez
Message 29
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rstone4(at)hot.rr.com wrote:
> Here is a legal document drawn up by a lawyer and recomended for use when selling
an experemental aircraft.
Keep in mind that you can't waive someone else's rights, so those agreements would
not be binding on the purchaser's survivors. While they're not necessarily
a bad idea, "hold harmless" agreements are generally worthless once you get
to court.
Also, nothing can prevent you from being sued. Even if the suit is groundless,
you still have to defend yourself.
Not a lawyer's opinion, but an insurance underwriter's...
PF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142602#142602
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| Subject: | Re: A new thread |
Hi Paul
The process is actually called anodizing. It is a close cousin to
electroplating. The resulting surface is jelly like and absorbs food
coloring to get the actual final color. It isn't very hard and not a
good protection from the elements.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 01:37 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:
>Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum in
>colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say,
>blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint
>for some nice stripes and the N-number.
>
>Let the games begin!
>
>Paul Rodriguez
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. |
All-
Ran into the same problem at a local well respected metals warehouse,
except I didn't tell them what I was going to use it for until after I saw
the condition. Big, deep garfs from horseing the stuff around racks, and
greasy as hell. Makes you really appreciate ACS.
Asked where the manufacturer's marks specifying the grade were. They'd
never heard of them. How about the cert? I'd have to PAY to look at it!
ACS and Wick's prices are downright reasonable, and they know you care
about being delivered pristine materials. Shipping's what kills you!
Do not archive
Bill Naumuk
HDS Fuse/Corvair
Townville, Pa
----- Original Message -----
From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
>
> I made the mistake once of mentioning what something was going to be used
> for when I went to Fazzio's in Glassboro, NJ looking for 6061-T6. The guy
> gave me a big lecture like he was a friggin' pro or something. He probably
> gave me an earful because he couldn't be sure that what he had labeled as
> 6061-T6 was actually that. LOL Considering the place is generally a
> junkhole, albeit they have some good stuff there, I'd never buy anything
> structural from them labeled 6061-T6.
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142561#142561
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Larger Brake |
The secret of the brake as I see it is there is a stainless steel hinge
which runs the whole length of the brake.
thus eliminating the flex we get in a standard brake.
I also have a brake which is hinged at either end but if I was starting now
I would build this brake.
Graemecns
----- Original Message -----
From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 9:44 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Larger Brake
>
> Hey, sorry, looks like it works well then. All I know is my brake. even
> made out of the same heavy steel, would not make a straight enough bend
> for my tastes until I put the tensioner bar on the top clamp piece.
> Obviously you can bend a deep wide skin and that's good. I'm just
> surprised it can do it without the tensioner. Without the tensioner on
> mine, I noticed a slight banana shape to the part. If you can get away
> without the tensioner for some reason that's great, I'm honestly surprised
> it doesn't need one considering the distance between the clamp bolts.
>
>
> TxDave wrote:
>> Excuse me. If you use a little of the gray matter God put between your
>> ears, you can bend ANYTHING you'll need for the 601XL with my brake.
>>
>> "Deep skins"??? I'm guessing that means control surface skins like flaps
>> and ailerons. They are not a problem (see attached photos).
>>
>> Folks...if you have any questions about the free brake plans I have been
>> happily providing for over a year now, just ask me. Don't rely on someone
>> else's assumptions.
>>
>> Dave Clay
>> Temple, TX
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142456#142456
>
>
> --
> 26/10/2007 8:50 AM
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: A new thread |
And I believe I've read that it would weaken the metal somewhat.
[quote="psm(at)ATT.NET"]Hi Paul
The process is actually called anodizing. It is a close cousin to
electroplating. The resulting surface is jelly like and absorbs food
coloring to get the actual final color. It isn't very hard and not a
good protection from the elements.
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 01:37 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:
> Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum in
> colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say,
> blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint
> for some nice stripes and the N-number.
>
> Let the games begin!
>
> Paul Rodriguez
>
>
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142620#142620
Message 34
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http://chat.iahu.ca/ at 8pm est tonight
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: 801 flaperon defection |
My 801 did the same thing when adjusted to the full flap setting. I set
mine so just as the bellcrank get close to the lower fuselage skin the m
icroswitch stops the flap motor. Trust me, you won' want to get to full
flaps.
net> wrote:
can anyone tell me if the total flaperon defection on an 801 is 30 degr
ess with full flaperon defection or 30 degress plus the 13 degress of fl
aperon defaction,and has anyone had to adjust their electic flap motor s
tops or just used the factory settings?
the flaperon bellcracks rubs the floor skin with that much movement
Tracy
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: lighting minihelic |
George,
You're idea sounds good. In fact I thought of doing that but I'm afraid that the
instrument case may be a pressure vessel of sorts, and was afraid to compromise
the integrity of the case. I'd love to hear from someone that has actually
used this method on a Dwyer Minihelic without ill effect.
Dan
[quote="georgerace"]Hi Dan:
You can do a very nice job of lighting an instrument with a small red LED. The
small "grain of wheat" size works well.
Remove the instrument from its case.
Remove the glass lens from the case.
Drill a small hole the size of the small LED from the outside of the case to
where the edge of the glass fits into the case.
Install and epoxy the led into the hole so that it just barely touches the glass
when installed.
Hook the LED, with a proper series resistor to a 12 volt source. Do not hook
it to the panel dimmer control.
Although it cannot be successfully dimmed, it will cast a nice red glow on the
face of the instrument. The glass acts as a conductor of the light and provides
nice even illumination.
George
> [b]
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142625#142625
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. |
Bill is giving you good advice. I'm in the steel and aluminum business and fully
engrossed in the quality side of metals. I'm also a new builder of a Zentih
CH 701 and would never ever buy aluminum from anyone but reputable aviation supply
sources.
Please do not take chances with that segment of our socieity known as "quasi-metallurgists".
Buy your metal products from known, reputable sources, and do not
let low price skew your judgement.
Most of the clowns that profess to know and try to convince you that their discounted
products are just as good as the industry recognized supply houses, don't
have a clue what they are talking about. If you want to test them, here's a
tip--ask them what the "T6" stands for. The T6 simply is the solution heat treat
and artificial aging spec. and has nothing to do with the chemistry make-up
of the aluminum. But, it is the process that makes 6061 aluminum a qualified
aviation metal spec.
I apologize if I sound like a metals zealot, but trust me, there IS a difference
between the capabilities of real 6061-T6 and the "seconds" that many of these
guys are selling.
Fly often, and fly safe.
Do not archive.
--- On Mon, 10/29/07, Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
> From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, October 29, 2007, 5:08 PM
> Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>
> All-
> Ran into the same problem at a local well respected
> metals warehouse,
> except I didn't tell them what I was going to use it
> for until after I saw
> the condition. Big, deep garfs from horseing the stuff
> around racks, and
> greasy as hell. Makes you really appreciate ACS.
> Asked where the manufacturer's marks specifying the
> grade were. They'd
> never heard of them. How about the cert? I'd have to
> PAY to look at it!
> ACS and Wick's prices are downright reasonable, and
> they know you care
> about being delivered pristine materials. Shipping's
> what kills you!
> Do not archive
> Bill Naumuk
> HDS Fuse/Corvair
> Townville, Pa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:00 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
>
>
> "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
> >
> > I made the mistake once of mentioning what something
> was going to be used
> > for when I went to Fazzio's in Glassboro, NJ
> looking for 6061-T6. The guy
> > gave me a big lecture like he was a friggin' pro
> or something. He probably
> > gave me an earful because he couldn't be sure that
> what he had labeled as
> > 6061-T6 was actually that. LOL Considering the place
> is generally a
> > junkhole, albeit they have some good stuff there,
> I'd never buy anything
> > structural from them labeled 6061-T6.
> >
> > --------
> > Andy Shontz
> > CH601XL - Corvair
> > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> >
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142561#142561
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Forums!
__________________________________________________
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: lighting minihelic |
Paul,
Thanks for the reply, and normally that'd be the perfect method, but the minihelic
installs like a lot of auto instrument gages. It is held on by having the
lens larger than the case, and mounted through a hole the size of the case, then
clamped from the back. To use the "vandals" method I'd have to find a way
to mount the gage behind the panel, without the standard instrument mounting
screws. I'm starting to sound like "there's hole in the bucket dear Ida".. Still
worth some thought though.
Thanks again.
Dan Dempsey
[quote="paulrod36(at)msn.com"] There's also another way: Some years ago a masked
outlaw broke into my Skyhawk. He took a sheet of 1/8th inch plexiglas and
duplicated the instrument panel cover, making cutouts for each instrument and
the pegs on the back of the cover. This arch fiend then proceeded to run wires
and wheat-grain bulbs, in parallel,two for each instrument (roughly 10 and
2 oclock) and poked the bulbs through appropriately-sized holes in the plastic.
This evil monster then inserted the package under the stock panel cover,
and ran the wires to the existing rheostat. After performing his hideous deed,
he skulked away in the dark of the night and I never saw him again. I am still
incensed that someone would to this to a perfectly good certified aircraft.
I will never forgive him for bathing each instrument in a controllable glow.
Now that I think about it, he may have done the same dastardly deed on other
unsuspecting aircraft, but in red plastic. Someday I may report that vandal.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL Corvair
> ---
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142627#142627
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: A new thread |
I Don't know where either of you got that "information", because anodizing actually
makes the aluminum much harder. The original purpose of anodizing was to
help protect aluminum from the elements and physical abuse, typically for exterior
use on buildings. It was only later that coloring during the anodizing
process came into use, and coloring has no effect on hardness. The surface of
anodized aluminum is ALWAYS more durable than plain aluminum; and the surface
can be made to be nearly as hard as a diamond, depending on the process used.
Jay in Dallas
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>And I believe I've read that it would weaken the metal somewhat.
>
>[quote="psm(at)ATT.NET"]Hi Paul
>
>The process is actually called anodizing. It is a close cousin to
>electroplating. The resulting surface is jelly like and absorbs food
>coloring to get the actual final color. It isn't very hard and not a
>good protection from the elements.
>
>Paul
>XL fuselage
>do not archive
>
>At 01:37 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:
>
>> Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum in
>> colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say,
>> blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint
>> for some nice stripes and the N-number.
>>
>> Let the games begin!
>>
>> Paul Rodriguez
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142620#142620
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: A new thread |
The surface is made harder, i.e. more brittle. Whether this is a BadThing
(tm) is left to the arguers. It's hashed out in lots of forums over and
over and over.
The big controversy comes when people anodize spars.
I have no opinion on the matter either way, still researching.
On 10/29/07, Jaybannist@cs.com <Jaybannist@cs.com> wrote:
>
>
> I Don't know where either of you got that "information", because anodizing
> actually makes the aluminum much harder. The original purpose of anodizing
> was to help protect aluminum from the elements and physical abuse, typically
> for exterior use on buildings. It was only later that coloring during the
> anodizing process came into use, and coloring has no effect on hardness. The
> surface of anodized aluminum is ALWAYS more durable than plain aluminum; and
> the surface can be made to be nearly as hard as a diamond, depending on the
> process used.
>
> Jay in Dallas
>
> "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
> wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
> >
> >And I believe I've read that it would weaken the metal somewhat.
> >
> >[quote="psm(at)ATT.NET"]Hi Paul
> >
> >The process is actually called anodizing. It is a close cousin to
> >electroplating. The resulting surface is jelly like and absorbs food
> >coloring to get the actual final color. It isn't very hard and not a
> >good protection from the elements.
> >
> >Paul
> >XL fuselage
> >do not archive
> >
> >At 01:37 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:
> >
> >> Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum in
> >> colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say,
> >> blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint
> >> for some nice stripes and the N-number.
> >>
> >> Let the games begin!
> >>
> >> Paul Rodriguez
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--------
> >W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> >601XL Under Construction
> >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142620#142620
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Sean Moore
moore.sean@gmail.com
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| Subject: | Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. |
On 10/29/07, Art Gibeaut <aagibeaut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Bill is giving you good advice. I'm in the steel and aluminum business and
> fully engrossed in the quality side of metals. I'm also a new builder of a
> Zentih CH 701 and would never ever buy aluminum from anyone but reputable
> aviation supply sources.
>
>
This answers a question I've been afraid to ask as of yet. Thank you.
Price is nice but if you can't trust it...
Along that vein, does anyone know of a reputable supplier local to Denver,
CO?
--
Sean Moore
moore.sean@gmail.com
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: A new thread |
I know nothing about anodizing myself, but I recall a discussion on one of
my lists (don't remember which) that said that anodizing made the aluminum
surface harder and more durable but the downside was that the surface could
crack during distortion and create stress concentrators and cause premature
failure of the metal.
Just a discussion I recall. Don't know if it is true or not, just offering
it as another piece of data.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: A new thread
>
> I Don't know where either of you got that "information", because anodizing
> actually makes the aluminum much harder. The original purpose of
> anodizing was to help protect aluminum from the elements and physical
> abuse, typically for exterior use on buildings. It was only later that
> coloring during the anodizing process came into use, and coloring has no
> effect on hardness. The surface of anodized aluminum is ALWAYS more
> durable than plain aluminum; and the surface can be made to be nearly as
> hard as a diamond, depending on the process used.
>
> Jay in Dallas
>
> "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>><wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>>
>>And I believe I've read that it would weaken the metal somewhat.
>>
>>[quote="psm(at)ATT.NET"]Hi Paul
>>
>>The process is actually called anodizing. It is a close cousin to
>>electroplating. The resulting surface is jelly like and absorbs food
>>coloring to get the actual final color. It isn't very hard and not a
>>good protection from the elements.
>>
>>Paul
>>XL fuselage
>>do not archive
>>
>>At 01:37 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>> Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum in
>>> colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say,
>>> blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint
>>> for some nice stripes and the N-number.
>>>
>>> Let the games begin!
>>>
>>> Paul Rodriguez
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>--------
>>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>>601XL Under Construction
>>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142620#142620
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: VDO sender installation instructions for the LE |
tanks on an
Dred,
You are right. The leading edge tank for the HD has a much
different profile. The HD wing has a constant (Hershey bar) chord. It
doesn't taper like the HDS and it is much thicker than the XL. It does give
a lower stall speed without flaps. And a different VDO sender is used. So
the XL pdf is generally helpful, but the bending instructions are very
different.
Jeff D
Do not archive
I don't know much about the HD and HDS but I believe their airfoil is very
different from a 601XL. <snip>
Dred
Message 44
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| Subject: | Anodized Aluminum and other exotic technologies. |
The latest thread has me feeling old and stodgy, but let me share
some thoughts on this general theme anyway.
The technology level in all of Chris Heintz's designs was developed
around 1940 or so. While the designs are newer than that and there
is some innovation in the actual designs, the technology itself is
not at all new. Rather, it is a well established way to build
reliable airplanes. It isn't the newest version of aviation building
technology - that goes to composite construction which is only about
30 years old rather than some 60 years for all-metal
construction. OK, my dates are only guesses and somebody can
probably prove me wrong by a decade or two, but my point is this is
very well established technology.
The finish approaches in this technology seem to include polishing
and painting along with just leaving the aluminum bare and dull (not
a bad choice, in my opinion). The notion that we should consider a
brand new approach to finishing our aluminum seems, somehow, out of
place for such a well established technology. If it were a good
idea, then somebody would have thought of it many years ago and tried
it. Even for a bad idea, somebody probably tried it years ago anyway
and discovered it was a bad idea.
I was attracted to the Zodiac because it is a very conventional
design. It has the engine in the front, the tail in the back and the
wings in the middle. It is "Modern" in that it offers tricycle
landing gear - another 1940's breakthrough. All of this leaves me
with a high degree of confidence that the plane will fly and endure
the elements longer than my old body will.
For those who must try something completely new, there are plenty of
composite designs with the engine in the back and the tail in the
front and an unusual number of wings. The simple fact that these
designs are not conventional brings to mind the likelihood that they
don't work as well as the old tried and true approach. If they were
really better, then they would have become the conventional design
approach. This might indeed be true for some variants of composite
construction that are finding their way into commercial airplanes
including airliners, but I am still convinced that the simplicity of
all metal construction is the best choice for me.
I intend to paint the rest of my plane using the same epoxy primer
and acrylic top coat I have already used on the bottom of the
fuselage. For those who want to try something as radical as
anodizing, I say - "Have a Ball". However, I hope they have good
life insurance when they fly their radical new twist on a technology
that was stable before they were born.
Paul
XL fuselage
Do not archive
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: A new thread |
Paul;=0A=0AWhile I am not an expert and am not qualified to give a rebuttal
, I believe you are not right on this. color anodizing is used for a final
finish on many parts in teh machine, racing, and tool industry. Anodizing i
s a hard coating and it is aluminum oxide so it is a barrier against furthe
r corrosion to some degree. There is even a process called hard anodizing w
here the surface is made hard enough to rpovide some wear resistance. I am
certain that someone far more qualified than I can give accurate detailed i
nformation on the anodizing process.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE)
PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Paul Mul
witz <psm@att.net>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, October
29, 2007 5:57:48 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: A new thread=0A=0A--> Zenit
h-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>=0A=0AHi Paul=0A=0AThe
process is actually called anodizing. It is a close cousin to =0Aelectropl
ating. The resulting surface is jelly like and absorbs food =0Acoloring to
get the actual final color. It isn't very hard and not a =0Agood protecti
on from the elements.=0A=0APaul=0AXL fuselage=0Ado not archive=0A=0AAt 01:3
7 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:=0A>Does anybody know what the process is to ano
dyne sheet aluminum in =0A>colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane w
as skinned in, say, =0A>blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry w
ould be the paint =0A>for some nice stripes and the N-number.=0A>=0A>Let th
================0A=0A________________________
Message 46
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| Subject: | re:801 flaperon deflection |
Thanks for the reply
do you know how many degrees of flaps you have?
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: A new thread |
I don't think that bending an anodized aluminum sheet would be recommended. The
surface is harder, but it is also more brittle, less ductile. Anodizing is
usually done on sheet metal that is already formed. Once the forming has concluded,
ductility is not an issue and anodizing won't contribute a concentration
of stresses.
Jay in Dallas
"raymondj" <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>I know nothing about anodizing myself, but I recall a discussion on one of
>my lists (don't remember which) that said that anodizing made the aluminum
>surface harder and more durable but the downside was that the surface could
>crack during distortion and create stress concentrators and cause premature
>failure of the metal.
>
>Just a discussion I recall. Don't know if it is true or not, just offering
>it as another piece of data.
>
>Raymond Julian
>Kettle River, MN
>
>"Hope for the best,
>but prepare for the worst."
>
>do not archive
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Jaybannist@cs.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 6:49 PM
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: A new thread
>
>
>>
>> I Don't know where either of you got that "information", because anodizing
>> actually makes the aluminum much harder. The original purpose of
>> anodizing was to help protect aluminum from the elements and physical
>> abuse, typically for exterior use on buildings. It was only later that
>> coloring during the anodizing process came into use, and coloring has no
>> effect on hardness. The surface of anodized aluminum is ALWAYS more
>> durable than plain aluminum; and the surface can be made to be nearly as
>> hard as a diamond, depending on the process used.
>>
>> Jay in Dallas
>>
>> "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>><wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>>>
>>>And I believe I've read that it would weaken the metal somewhat.
>>>
>>>[quote="psm(at)ATT.NET"]Hi Paul
>>>
>>>The process is actually called anodizing. It is a close cousin to
>>>electroplating. The resulting surface is jelly like and absorbs food
>>>coloring to get the actual final color. It isn't very hard and not a
>>>good protection from the elements.
>>>
>>>Paul
>>>XL fuselage
>>>do not archive
>>>
>>>At 01:37 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum in
>>>> colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say,
>>>> blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint
>>>> for some nice stripes and the N-number.
>>>>
>>>> Let the games begin!
>>>>
>>>> Paul Rodriguez
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--------
>>>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>>>601XL Under Construction
>>>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142620#142620
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: A new thread |
...just make sure thast you do not try to Alodine treat any assembled struc
ture. The process must be thoroughly rinsed to stop the attack (all but one
specific type of Alodine).=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA=0A100
HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Sean Moore <moore
.sean@gmail.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, October 29
, 2007 8:00:36 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: A new thread=0A=0AThe sur
face is made harder, i.e. more brittle. Whether this is a BadThing (tm) is
left to the arguers. It's hashed out in lots of forums over and over and
over.=0A=0AThe big controversy comes when people anodize spars. =0A=0AI hav
e no opinion on the matter either way, still researching.=0A=0A=0AOn 10/29/
07, Jaybannist@cs.com < Jaybannist@cs.com> wrote:=0A--> Zenith-List message
posted by: Jaybannist@cs.com=0A=0AI Don't know where either of you got tha
t "information", because anodizing actually makes the aluminum much harder.
The original purpose of anodizing was to help protect aluminum from the e
lements and physical abuse, typically for exterior use on buildings. It wa
s only later that coloring during the anodizing process came into use, and
coloring has no effect on hardness. The surface of anodized aluminum is ALW
AYS more durable than plain aluminum; and the surface can be made to be nea
rly as hard as a diamond, depending on the process used. =0A=0AJay in Dalla
s=0A=0A"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:=0A=0A>--> Zenith-Li
st message posted by: "Gig Giacona" < wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>=0A>=0A>And
I believe I've read that it would weaken the metal somewhat.=0A>=0A>[quote
="psm(at)ATT.NET"]Hi Paul=0A>=0A>The process is actually called anodizing
. It is a close cousin to =0A>electroplating. The resulting surface is je
lly like and absorbs food=0A>coloring to get the actual final color. It is
n't very hard and not a=0A>good protection from the elements.=0A>=0A>Paul
=0A>XL fuselage=0A>do not archive=0A>=0A>At 01:37 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:
=0A>=0A>> Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum i
n=0A>> colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say,
=0A>> blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint
=0A>> for some nice stripes and the N-number.=0A>>=0A>> Let the games begin
!=0A>>=0A>> Paul Rodriguez =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>--------=0A>W.R. &quo
t;Gig" Giacona=0A>601XL Under Construction=0A>See my progress at www.p
eoamerica.net/N601WR =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>
=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142620#142620=0A=0Amoore.
========0A=0A________________________________________________
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: A new thread |
Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
> I don't think that bending an anodized aluminum sheet would be recommended.
The surface is harder, but it is also more brittle, less ductile.
Which is what I meant by weaker. I probably should have said brittle.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142672#142672
Message 50
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|
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but a 2003 Zenith CH2000D,
N652AM, S/N 20-1022 was stolen from the American Falls Idaho Airport
sometime between October 5th and 12th. This bird is white with blue and
yellow stripes. If you see it, contact your local police or Seth Magid of
AIG Aviation 800-969-5473. There is a $10,000 reward!
Mack P. Kreizenbeck
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: A new thread |
Its the so called "hard" anodizing, which is black in
color that makes parts brittle. An unfortunate
incident with black anodized helicopter control rods
was a good illistration to me. We had hard anodize
parts recently fail fatigue tests at work. I related
this to a long-retired Douglas engineer and he said it
was common knowlege. Some lessons have to be learned
over and over again.
Clear or color anodize, which is clear plus color dye,
is too thin to weaken the base metal. When I worked at
Hi-Shear (the aerospace fastener company), we anodized
all the aluminum parts we made. 2024 and 7075 alloys
need corrosion protection.
Back in the 1960's, Continental Airlines tried the
idea of gold anodized skins instead of paint for the
Convair 880. It didnt work, looked like a
checkerboard. The process is just not that even in dye
absorbtion to use on sheet metal skins.
--- David Downey <planecrazydld@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Paul;
>
> While I am not an expert and am not qualified to
> give a rebuttal, I believe you are not right on
> this. color anodizing is used for a final finish on
> many parts in teh machine, racing, and tool
> industry. Anodizing is a hard coating and it is
> aluminum oxide so it is a barrier against further
> corrosion to some degree. There is even a process
> called hard anodizing where the surface is made hard
> enough to rpovide some wear resistance. I am certain
> that someone far more qualified than I can give
> accurate detailed information on the anodizing
> process.
>
> Dave Downey
> Harleysville (SE) PA
> 100 HP Corvair
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 5:57:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A new thread
>
> <psm@att.net>
>
> Hi Paul
>
> The process is actually called anodizing. It is a
> close cousin to
> electroplating. The resulting surface is jelly like
> and absorbs food
> coloring to get the actual final color. It isn't
> very hard and not a
> good protection from the elements.
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
> do not archive
>
> At 01:37 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:
> >Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne
> sheet aluminum in
> >colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was
> skinned in, say,
> >blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry
> would be the paint
> >for some nice stripes and the N-number.
> >
> >Let th==============
>
> ________________________
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Larger Brake |
Hey Andy,
The top piece of angle (I call it the top plate) is flat against the aluminum.
I have pretty large bolts running through my table and a 1x4 board attached under
my table for strength. I'm no engineer...so I don't have a technical explanation.
It just works, that's all I know.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
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