---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/31/07: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:40 AM - Re: 601XL form blocks joggle and crimp cutouts (Larry Winger) 2. 01:59 AM - Re: 601XL form blocks joggle and crimp cutouts (Jugle) 3. 02:12 AM - Re: Tachometer Problems (Tommy Walker) 4. 03:48 AM - Re: Re:Jabiru Cooling (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com) 5. 03:58 AM - Re: Serial to gray code converter (Gordon) 6. 04:44 AM - Re: Tach problem (Zed Smith) 7. 06:33 AM - Streamline Struts on a 701 (LRM) 8. 07:22 AM - Airplane part (robert stone) 9. 07:22 AM - Airplane part (robert stone) 10. 07:36 AM - Re: Piano hinge lube (Dave VanLanen) 11. 07:46 AM - Re: Airplane part (Robin Bellach) 12. 08:06 AM - Re: Airplane part (Zed Smith) 13. 08:42 AM - Re: Airplane part (Leo Gates) 14. 09:01 AM - Re: Airplane part (Bryan Martin) 15. 09:07 AM - Re: 601XL form blocks joggle and crimp cutouts (ashontz) 16. 09:20 AM - 601XL Project for Sale (Dan Forney) 17. 09:46 AM - Re: streamline struts on 701 (Tracy) 18. 01:23 PM - Piano hinged ailerons (hansriet) 19. 02:33 PM - Re: Piano hinged ailerons (Jaybannist@cs.com) 20. 03:23 PM - Re: 601XL form blocks joggle and crimp cutouts (Maarten Versteeg) 21. 03:34 PM - Re: Piano hinged ailerons (george may) 22. 03:51 PM - Re: Streamline Struts on a 701 (ZodieRocket) 23. 03:59 PM - Re: 601XL form blocks joggle and crimp cutouts (Ron Lendon) 24. 04:08 PM - Light Sport Recumbent Bike (Ron Lendon) 25. 04:25 PM - Re: Airplane part (Southern Reflections) 26. 04:53 PM - Re: Streamline Struts on a 701 (ROBERT SCEPPA) 27. 05:13 PM - Missing pages (Bob Unternaehrer) 28. 05:26 PM - Re: Missing pages (ZodieRocket) 29. 05:33 PM - Re: Missing pages (Craig Payne) 30. 07:03 PM - Re: Streamline Struts on a 701 (LRM) 31. 07:11 PM - Airmaster inflight adjustable prop hub (Gord) 32. 07:20 PM - Re: Streamline Struts on a 701 (NYTerminat@aol.com) 33. 07:21 PM - Re: Streamline Struts on a 701 (ZodieRocket) 34. 07:40 PM - Re: Missing pages (Bob Unternaehrer) 35. 07:40 PM - Re: Missing pages (Bob Unternaehrer) 36. 07:52 PM - Re: Streamline Struts on a 701 (David Downey) 37. 10:11 PM - Re: Streamline Struts on a 701 (George Swinford) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:57 AM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL form blocks joggle and crimp cutouts I didn't round them, and didn't have any problem with cracking. The joggle just isn't that extreme, and you shouldn't need to beat them down with great force. You should be fine. Larry Winger 601XL/Corvair Scratch building Wings 80% done On 10/30/07, Jugle wrote: > > > Forgive me if I'm getting a bit pedantic here, but I just want to be sure. > Where I've notched out the form blocks for the joggle for the spar and for > the crimps along the rib edges, do I need to round those edges off like the > rest of the block? > > I'm concerned that if I bash with a hammer and wooden block to follow > those recesses I might get some cracking... or is the bend shallow enough to > cope? > > What have you done? > > Glenn. > > -------- > Glenn Andressen > 601XL- just started. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142906#142906 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:59:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL form blocks joggle and crimp cutouts From: "Jugle" lwinger wrote: > I didn't round them, and didn't have any problem with cracking. The joggle just isn't that extreme, and you shouldn't need to beat them down with great force. You should be fine. > Thanks Larry. BTW, I have your kitlog site bookmarked and have already used it several times as a reference. Keep up the good work. Glenn -------- Glenn Andressen 601XL- just started. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142910#142910 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:38 AM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tachometer Problems Hi Dan, I had that problem on the first run up of my 912. after checking everything else, I swapped the two leads going to the tach and it fixed the problem. I remember when I wired up the tach that I called support and asked which lead went where, and was told that it didn't seem to matter. It did in my case. Hope this helps, Tommy Walker in Alabama N8701 18 Hrs. Vote Democrat - it's easier than working! Vote Republican - it's easier than thinking! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:33 AM PST US From: IFLYSMODEL@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re:Jabiru Cooling Thanks for the idea, Ron: I will try it on my 601 HD Lynn ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:17 AM PST US From: "Gordon" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Serial to gray code converter I bought the appropriate converter from Dynon to solve the same issue. Easy to hook-up. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:32 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Serial to gray code converter > > Hey guys, I've got an encoder that puts out serial altitude data and a > Becker 4401-1 transponder that accepts only gray code altitude data. > > Anybody out there have any experience with the Dynon serial to gray code > converter module? Any info or advice would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Dred > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:14 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Tach problem do not archive You don't say what brand of tach, but if it is a WesTach brand you might try putting a 1K Ohm resistor across the tach leads to swamp the "ringing" that is present with each tach pulse from the engine. Observed on a 'scope, this looks like several small pulses on either side of the main pulse. The tach circuitry sees these as just more pulses, and results in erratic readings. The "error factor" changes with engine speed as the amount/amplitude/shape of the ringing changes. The resistor lowers the amplitude of the extra stuff so that the tach only sees the main pulse. The 1K value may not be correct for each application. WesTach web site has application info which will probably apply to most any brand of electronic tach. You can connect a 5K pot across the tach, using the pot center terminal and one end terminal, then vary the pot to determine at what setting the tach works best. Read the resistance between these two terminals with an ohmmeter to find the value you need. Hope this helps. Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:11 AM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 A question for my learned fellow builders. Should one replace the round tube struts on a 701 with streamline struts can the jury struts be eliminated? If yes, why. If no, why. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:50 AM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Zenith-List: Airplane part Members, I was flying along fat, dumb, and happy when the part in the attached picture fell out from behind the instrument panel. Can any of you builders of the ZodiacXL tell me what this part is supposed to do and where does it go??? Bob Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:50 AM PST US From: "robert stone" Subject: Zenith-List: Airplane part Members, I was flying along fat, dumb, and happy when the part in the attached picture fell out from behind the instrument panel. Can any of you builders of the ZodiacXL tell me what this part is supposed to do and where does it go??? Bob Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:06 AM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Piano hinge lube Tim, Sorry - I forgot to mention when we were communicating earlier that I had checked with Caleb at Zenith regarding this question. He said that they use Corrosion X on their aircraft. There is a Corrosion X Aviation product available. I believe it is carried by Aircraft Spruce and Wicks, and you can also order it directly from the company - Corrosion Technologies Corp. According to their website, it uses the latest advances in FTFC (Fluid Thin Film Coating) technology, and it is qualified under Mil-C-81309E, Type II for application to airframes and is used extensively by the military. Dave Van Lanen Madison, WI 601XL - Elevator Time: 08:56:15 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Piano hinge lube From: "Tim Juhl" What is the consensus on the best lube for the piano hinges used on the various control surfaces of the XL. Cessna recommends graphite powder - Piper used some hinges where the pin was inside a teflon sleeve. Comments? Tim ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:41 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airplane part Am I the only one that does not find any picture attached? DO NOT ARCHIVE. ----- Original Message ----- From: robert stone To: Zenith list Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:20 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Airplane part Members, I was flying along fat, dumb, and happy when the part in the attached picture fell out from behind the instrument panel. Can any of you builders of the ZodiacXL tell me what this part is supposed to do and where does it go??? Bob Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:50 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Airplane part Must have been a Stealth part.....I don't see it. However, attached you will find a complete listing of all surnames in Michigan ending in "ski". Zed heck no, do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:49 AM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airplane part No. Leo Gates Robin Bellach wrote: > Am I the only one that does not find any picture attached? > > DO NOT ARCHIVE. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:43 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airplane part Your picture must have got lost somewhere along the way. On Oct 31, 2007, at 10:20 AM, robert stone wrote: > Members, > I was flying along fat, dumb, and happy when the part in the > attached picture fell out from behind the instrument panel. Can > any of you builders of the ZodiacXL tell me what this part is > supposed to do and where does it go??? -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL form blocks joggle and crimp cutouts From: "ashontz" I actually cracked one and had to remake the part. Be careful. Jugle wrote: > Forgive me if I'm getting a bit pedantic here, but I just want to be sure. Where I've notched out the form blocks for the joggle for the spar and for the crimps along the rib edges, do I need to round those edges off like the rest of the block? > > I'm concerned that if I bash with a hammer and wooden block to follow those recesses I might get some cracking... or is the bend shallow enough to cope? > > What have you done? > > Glenn. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142954#142954 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:37 AM PST US From: "Dan Forney" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Project for Sale I am abandoning my 601XL project and would like to sell the fuselage kit (includes the dual-stick option), plans & drawings, etc. Project is located in the Portland Oregon area. I have about $6000.00 into plans & kit pieces. I am asking $4000.00 OBO. If anyone is interested or knows of anyone that might be, please email me or have them do so. I will consider any reasonable offer. Thanks, Dan ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:32 AM PST US From: Tracy Subject: Zenith-List: re: streamline struts on 701 just put some streamline strut covering over them,you will gain about 10 mph,and also put material over the jury stuts. I would not remove the jury struts,they are added strength to the stuts,they and rigidity to them and how many people have you seen get out of the airplane and use the sturts as support,if you have ever seen that you would be amazed at how much they move,those are they most important part to keep you in the air and you dont want those to be flexing and fatiguing Tracy ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:28 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Piano hinged ailerons From: "hansriet" Is there a separate photo construction guide for the piano hinged ailerons? I can't find it anywhere. Hans van Riet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142988#142988 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:49 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Piano hinged ailerons Hans, As far as I know, there is no photo guide for the hinged aileron option. There is a drawing that explains how to do it. If you need that, contact me directly and I'll send it to you. Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J "hansriet" wrote: > >Is there a separate photo construction guide for the piano hinged ailerons? >I can't find it anywhere. > >Hans van Riet > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142988#142988 > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:44 PM PST US From: Maarten Versteeg Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL form blocks joggle and crimp cutouts Hello Glenn, I didn't round off the edges of the joggles and the crimps for the main spars and didn't have any problems. I used MDF for the form blocks, so it may have given a little bit, but with the spring back for the flange I never got too sharp bends on the crimps. Regards, Maarten 601XL plans building wings > Time: 11:44:33 PM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL form blocks joggle and crimp cutouts > From: "Jugle" > > > Forgive me if I'm getting a bit pedantic here, but I just want to be sure. Where > I've notched out the form blocks for the joggle for the spar and for the crimps > along the rib edges, do I need to round those edges off like the rest of the > block? > > I'm concerned that if I bash with a hammer and wooden block to follow those recesses > I might get some cracking... or is the bend shallow enough to cope? > > What have you done? > > Glenn. > > -------- > Glenn Andressen > 601XL- just started. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:16 PM PST US From: george may Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Piano hinged ailerons Hans I built my wings with the hinged ailerons from the plans. If you have any questions let me know and I'll try to answer them. George May 601XL 912s 165hours do not archive> Subject: Zenith-List: Piano hinged ailerons> From: hansinla @mac.com> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:21:52 -0700> To: zenith-list@matronics. Is there a separate photo construction guide for the piano hinged ailerons? > I can't find it anywhere.> > Hans van Riet> > > > > Read this topic onlin e here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142988#142988> > > ===============> > > _________________________________________________________________ ! ilnews ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:14 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 Larry and others, I have designed a custom streamline extrusion for my float attachments and for the Struts of the STOL aircraft. I will be making Streamline Strut kits in the new year. The Jury struts will remain to remove any chance of wing harmonics( flexing). On average, this single step has improved cruise by 5 mph. The same can be achieved by simply wrapping the round struts with .016 and solid riveting the trailing edge. THE Magic # is 3-1 so for every inch in width add 3 inches in total length. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:32 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 A question for my learned fellow builders. Should one replace the round tube struts on a 701 with streamline struts can the jury struts be eliminated? If yes, why. If no, why. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 10/31/2007 10:06 AM 10/31/2007 10:06 AM ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:52 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL form blocks joggle and crimp cutouts From: "Ron Lendon" FYI Here is a little different approach to putting the joggle in the rear wing ribs. http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=0&log=23490&row=231 I didn't soften the crimps either, just ground them into the MDF and tapped em home usng the Mark Townsend method (Metalworking 101 Homebuilt Help). -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143026#143026 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Light Sport Recumbent Bike From: "Ron Lendon" Taking a little airplane break and building the Larry McFarland recumbent. Have it up on the kitlog site as another project. Just wanted a change of pace for a little bit, I will be back on the airframe in a few weeks. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143027#143027 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:17 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airplane part no me too..Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin Bellach To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airplane part Am I the only one that does not find any picture attached? DO NOT ARCHIVE. ----- Original Message ----- From: robert stone To: Zenith list Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:20 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Airplane part Members, I was flying along fat, dumb, and happy when the part in the attached picture fell out from behind the instrument panel. Can any of you builders of the ZodiacXL tell me what this part is supposed to do and where does it go??? Bob Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:08 PM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 > I was at Oshkosh and Michael said the same thing to > me, wrap .016 and rivet the trailing edge...so thats > what I will do......do not archive --- ZodieRocket wrote: > Larry and others, I have designed a custom > streamline extrusion for my > float attachments and for the Struts of the STOL > aircraft. I will be > making Streamline Strut kits in the new year. The > Jury struts will > remain to remove any chance of wing harmonics( > flexing). On average, > this single step has improved cruise by 5 mph. The > same can be achieved > by simply wrapping the round struts with .016 and > solid riveting the > trailing edge. THE Magic # is 3-1 so for every inch > in width add 3 > inches in total length. > > Mark Townsend > Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. > HYPERLINK > "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com > HYPERLINK > "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of LRM > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:32 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 > > A question for my learned fellow builders. Should > one replace the round > tube struts on a 701 with streamline struts can the > jury struts be > eliminated? If yes, why. If no, why. > > Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L > > > "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com > /Navigator?Zenith-List > "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com > > > 10/31/2007 10:06 AM > > > 10/31/2007 10:06 AM > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:32 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Zenith-List: Missing pages I bought my plans second hand and just noticed there are some pages missing to the "construction guide". Can I assume if it says "page 4 of 12" of a particular drawing number that I'm missing pages 1 thru 3. Do I get those off of the CD or do I have to go to Zenith for replacements. Blue Skies Bob Unternaehrer shilocom@mcmsys.com ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:02 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Missing pages Bob, have you filled out a change of ownership yet? IF so then send me a copy and I will issue you the password to the builders resources section. If not then I will send you some forms to fill out. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Unternaehrer Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:10 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Missing pages I bought my plans second hand and just noticed there are some pages missing to the "construction guide". Can I assume if it says "page 4 of 12" of a particular drawing number that I'm missing pages 1 thru 3. Do I get those off of the CD or do I have to go to Zenith for replacements. Blue Skies Bob Unternaehrer HYPERLINK "mailto:shilocom@mcmsys.com"shilocom@mcmsys.com "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 10/31/2007 10:06 AM 10/31/2007 10:06 AM ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:18 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Missing pages If this is for an XL be aware the the photos in the photo guide CD are much higher resolution than those in the ones you can access on Zenith's site. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:37 PM PST US From: "LRM" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 I'm not so sure I agree that the jury struts are needed if streamline struts are used. My PegaStol wings only have streamline struts as does the Savannah. Most wings that have streamline struts do not employ jury struts. I know some highwings do use both streamline and jury struts, but it is not the general rule. Perhaps jury struts are only needed to stabilize the harmonics set up with round tubing whereas streamline struts do not cause any such harmonics or vibration. Having now built both the Zenith wing and PegaStol wing I don't think the Zenith wings have a structure need for the jury struts, they simply keep the tubes from humming and add unneeded weight and drag. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: ZodieRocket To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 Larry and others, I have designed a custom streamline extrusion for my float attachments and for the Struts of the STOL aircraft. I will be making Streamline Strut kits in the new year. The Jury struts will remain to remove any chance of wing harmonics( flexing). On average, this single step has improved cruise by 5 mph. The same can be achieved by simply wrapping the round struts with .016 and solid riveting the trailing edge. THE Magic # is 3-1 so for every inch in width add 3 inches in total length. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:32 AM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 A question for my learned fellow builders. Should one replace the round tube struts on a 701 with streamline struts can the jury struts be eliminated? If yes, why. If no, why. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L - The Zenith-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com 10/31/2007 10:06 AM 10/31/2007 10:06 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 10/31/2007 10:06 AM ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:36 PM PST US From: "Gord" Subject: Zenith-List: Airmaster inflight adjustable prop hub Has anyone used an airmaster ap332 inflight adjustable prop on their 601 ? Would be great to get your feedback, especially on an HD. Otherwise, what have you found to be the best performing props using a rotax engine..(mine is a 914.. 912s will be close) ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:44 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 In a message dated 10/31/2007 10:04:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lrm@skyhawg.com writes: Having now built both the Zenith wing and PegaStol wing I don't think the Zenith wings have a structure need for the jury struts, they simply keep the tubes from humming and add unneeded weight and drag. Larry Larry, I can't remember where I read it but I believe the jury struts keep it from humming as you said and also in a negative G condition they keep the struts from bending. I have seen many ultralights that have removed their tube struts and jury struts and replaced with only aluminum streamline struts. I put on the plastic streamline struts over the tube struts and saw an 8mph increase along with having to repitch the prop to keep from over revving. Could not believe how much drag is caused by those tube struts. Bob Spudis N701ZX/ CH701/ 140hrs ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:49 PM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 In my unprofessional opinion I believe you are right and maybe for my type of flying they are not needed. However, they are little weight gain and provide far more strength then you give them credit for, and with that extra strength It may cover that fellow out there who fly=92s a lot differently then either you or I do. I will leave the Jury Strut decision to Chris Heintz. After all he knows a lot more then either of us concerning the 701. Plus all the Savanna=92s I have seen did add the jury strut after that one had an in-flight failure. It is one of there improvements. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:00 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 I'm not so sure I agree that the jury struts are needed if streamline struts are used. My PegaStol wings only have streamline struts as does the Savannah. Most wings that have streamline struts do not employ jury struts. I know some highwings do use both streamline and jury struts, but it is not the general rule. Perhaps jury struts are only needed to stabilize the harmonics set up with round tubing whereas streamline struts do not cause any such harmonics or vibration. Having now built both the Zenith wing and PegaStol wing I don't think the Zenith wings have a structure need for the jury struts, they simply keep the tubes from humming and add unneeded weight and drag. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:zodierocket@hsfx.ca"ZodieRocket "mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com"zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 Larry and others, I have designed a custom streamline extrusion for my float attachments and for the Struts of the STOL aircraft. I will be making Streamline Strut kits in the new year. The Jury struts will remain to remove any chance of wing harmonics( flexing). On average, this single step has improved cruise by 5 mph. The same can be achieved by simply wrapping the round struts with .016 and solid riveting the trailing edge. THE Magic # is 3-1 so for every inch in width add 3 inches in total length. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:32 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 A question for my learned fellow builders. Should one replace the round tube struts on a 701 with streamline struts can the jury struts be eliminated? If yes, why. If no, why. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L - The Zenith-List Email Forum - --> HYPERLINK "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 10/31/2007 10:06 AM 10/31/2007 10:06 AM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron h ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _____ Release Date: 10/31/2007 10:06 AM "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 10/31/2007 10:06 AM 10/31/2007 10:06 AM ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:49 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Missing pages I have the CD but haven't looked at it yet. A quick look through the picture book and there seems to be only 3 pages missing. All 8 pages 6-B-10 seemed to be all numbered wrong. Page 1 says 1 of 1 and page 2 says 2 of 2 etc thru 8 pages. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:32 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Missing pages If this is for an XL be aware the the photos in the photo guide CD are much higher resolution than those in the ones you can access on Zenith's site. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:50 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Missing pages I have filled out the change of ownership forms and sent to Mexico and have the username and password for the BR section. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: ZodieRocket To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:24 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Missing pages Bob, have you filled out a change of ownership yet? IF so then send me a copy and I will issue you the password to the builders resources section. If not then I will send you some forms to fill out. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Unternaehrer Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:10 PM To: Zenith List Subject: Zenith-List: Missing pages I bought my plans second hand and just noticed there are some pages missing to the "construction guide". Can I assume if it says "page 4 of 12" of a particular drawing number that I'm missing pages 1 thru 3. Do I get those off of the CD or do I have to go to Zenith for replacements. Blue Skies Bob Unternaehrer shilocom@mcmsys.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com 10/31/2007 10:06 AM 10/31/2007 10:06 AM ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:42 PM PST US From: David Downey Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 Doesn't anyone out there understand that the purpose of the jury strut is t o stabilize the wing strut in buckling? During any intentional or unintenti onal negative G excursions, the strut wants to bend/buckle. The jury strut (while usually pretty flimsy) effectively holds that instability off to a M UCH greater load.=0A=0AEven if the design does not require them, they are d esirable for that reason alone.=0A=0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA=0A1 00 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: LRM =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:59:38 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701=0A=0A=0A I'm not so sure I agree that the jury struts are needed if streamline strut s are used. My PegaStol wings only have streamline struts as does the Sava nnah. Most wings that have streamline struts do not employ jury struts. I know some highwings do use both streamline and jury struts, but it is not the general rule. Perhaps jury struts are only needed to stabilize the har monics set up with round tubing whereas streamline struts do not cause any such harmonics or vibration. Having now built both the Zenith wing and Pe gaStol wing I don't think the Zenith wings have a structure need for the ju ry struts, they simply keep the tubes from humming and add unneeded weight and drag. Larry=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: ZodieRocket =0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:49 PM=0AS ubject: RE: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701=0A=0A=0ALarry and other s, I have designed a custom streamline extrusion for my float attachments a nd for the Struts of the STOL aircraft. I will be making Streamline Strut k its in the new year. The Jury struts will remain to remove any chance of wi ng harmonics( flexing). On average, this single step has improved cruise by 5 mph. The same can be achieved by simply wrapping the round struts with . 016 and solid riveting the trailing edge. THE Magic # is 3-1 so for every i nch in width add 3 inches in total length.=0A =0AMark Townsend=0ACan-Zac Av iation Ltd.=0Apresident@can-zacaviation.com=0Awww.can-zacaviation.com =0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.co m [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM=0ASent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:32 AM=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics.com=0ASubje ct: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701=0A =0AA question for my learned fellow builders. Should one replace the round tube struts on a 701 with s treamline struts can the jury struts be eliminated? If yes, why. If no, w hy. =0A =0ALarry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L=0A =0A =0A=0A - The Z enith-List Email Forum -=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A --> http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?Zenith-List=0A=0A - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -=0A=0A - -> http://forums.matronics.com=0A=0A =0A=0A10/31/2007 10:06 AM=0A=0A=0A10/ 31/2007 10:06 AM=0A=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zeni th-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forum s.matronics.com=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARelease Date: 10/31/2007 10:06 AM=0A=0A=0A=0A =========================0A l.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:47 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 Dave: Speaking as a (retired) aeronautical engineer, I second your comments, though I take some exception to your last sentence. Given that Chris Heintz is a professional designer, I'm sure the 701 does require the jury struts. Otherwise he wouldn't have accepted the complexity, weight, drag and cost. The alternative would have been a larger diameter or heavier-walled strut to get the same resistance to buckling under a compression load. It is not a question of vibration nor some property of streamline tubing as such. The fact that some other design doesn't employ jury struts means that the other designer has chosen a different solution to providing the necessary compression strength. If the increase in cruise speed seems worth the effort a streamline fairing for the strut seems a good solution. George Swinford. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Downey To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:51 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 Doesn't anyone out there understand that the purpose of the jury strut is to stabilize the wing strut in buckling? During any intentional or unintentional negative G excursions, the strut wants to bend/buckle. The jury strut (while usually pretty flimsy) effectively holds that instability off to a MUCH greater load. Even if the design does not require them, they are desirable for that reason alone. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair ----- Original Message ---- From: LRM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:59:38 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 I'm not so sure I agree that the jury struts are needed if streamline struts are used. My PegaStol wings only have streamline struts as does the Savannah. Most wings that have streamline struts do not employ jury struts. I know some highwings do use both streamline and jury struts, but it is not the general rule. Perhaps jury struts are only needed to stabilize the harmonics set up with round tubing whereas streamline struts do not cause any such harmonics or vibration. Having now built both the Zenith wing and PegaStol wing I don't think the Zenith wings have a structure need for the jury struts, they simply keep the tubes from humming and add unneeded weight and drag. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: ZodieRocket To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 Larry and others, I have designed a custom streamline extrusion for my float attachments and for the Struts of the STOL aircraft. I will be making Streamline Strut kits in the new year. The Jury struts will remain to remove any chance of wing harmonics( flexing). On average, this single step has improved cruise by 5 mph. The same can be achieved by simply wrapping the round struts with .016 and solid riveting the trailing edge. THE Magic # is 3-1 so for every inch in width add 3 inches in total length. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LRM Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:32 AM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Streamline Struts on a 701 A question for my learned fellow builders. Should one replace the round tube struts on a 701 with streamline struts can the jury struts be eliminated? If yes, why. If no, why. Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L - The Zenith-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com 10/31/2007 10:06 AM 10/31/2007 10:06 AM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com Release Date: 10/31/2007 10:06 AM r?Zenith-List" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navi========== /mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 10/31/2007 10:06 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.