Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:04 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Selector (Gig Giacona)
2. 07:27 AM - Re: Locations for Head Set Jacks? (John M. Goodings)
3. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Powerplant Choices (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 08:55 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank Selector (Randy L. Thwing)
5. 10:59 AM - Re: A6, A7 Rivets? (dekano)
6. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: A6, A7 Rivets? (LarryMcFarland)
7. 11:41 AM - Re: Re: A6, A7 Rivets? (Tom Faulkner)
8. 01:46 PM - Bigger rivets (Zed Smith)
9. 03:59 PM - Re: Bigger rivets ()
10. 04:10 PM - Re: Re: A6, A7 Rivets? (George Swinford)
11. 04:39 PM - Re: Fuel selector location? (Tim Juhl)
12. 04:47 PM - Dynon remote compass location (hansriet)
13. 05:46 PM - Re: Dynon remote compass location (dj45)
14. 05:54 PM - Re: Dynon remote compass location (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
15. 06:19 PM - Larger rivets (Brad Cohen)
16. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: Fuel selector location? (Paul Mulwitz)
17. 06:45 PM - Re: Fuel Tank Selector (George Race)
18. 06:54 PM - Re: Dynon remote compass location (ZodieRocket)
19. 08:41 PM - Re: Dynon remote compass location (george may)
20. 08:45 PM - Re: Dynon remote compass location (Edward Moody II)
21. 08:55 PM - riveter nosepieces (Darrell Haas)
22. 09:49 PM - Re: riveter nosepieces (wa7dvd)
23. 09:49 PM - 5 Important mistakes (ZodieRocket)
24. 09:55 PM - Re: Re:Re:3 Zodiacs down in 4 days. (Paul Mulwitz)
25. 10:05 PM - Re:Re:Fuel Tank Selector (MaxNr@aol.com)
26. 10:24 PM - Jabiru FWF (Darryl Legg)
27. 10:39 PM - Re: riveter nosepieces (Terry Phillips)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Selector |
That 4 gph is about what I remember for the Beech though it has been a while. Hey,
if we could get that return rate in a 601 we could almost fly for free. :)
MaxNr(at)aol.com wrote:
> Gig is right. I owned a Beechcraft that had the only return line emptying into
the left tank. Flight Manual said in several places to "operate the first 45
minutes on the left tank." Nobody ever had a problem with this procedure. System
was trouble free and simple. I believe that it returned about four Gal/hr.
>
> Bob XL/Lyc
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144572#144572
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Locations for Head Set Jacks? |
We used two 4"x2"x1" die-cast Al boxes with the large flat side rivetted
to the fuselage outer skin, mounted just under and behind the panel's
outer edges. The two jacks in each box are in the vertical 4"x1" edge.
This way, we can unscrew the box lid to expose the wiring connections to
the intercom; there is quite a lot of wiring. This keeps the plug cords
from the head sets down the side of the fuselage out of the way, on both
sides. One can easily get at the plugs while flying. If we were doing it
again, we would certainly do it the same way.
John and Peter Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa/Carp/Toronto.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Powerplant Choices |
Hi Art,
I think the whole subject of prop pitch vs. rpm vs. horsepower and
torque is a bit too complicated for the simple statements you made.
The ideal solution to all this would be to have a variable pitch
propeller with a governor that adjusts the prop pitch to give the
desired rpm at the current engine setting and flight condition (climb
or descend or level flight). Such a device already has been invented
- it is called a constant speed propeller. All high performance
planes with propellers are equipped with this gizmo. This is clearly
the ideal solution for performance at the expense of complex
equipment with corresponding cost. It also gives a poorly trained
pilot the opportunity to break the engine if he sets the controls
improperly. I presume it is for these reasons (cost and risk) that
this wonderful equipment is denied to Sport Pilots.
If you are limited to fixed (or ground adjustable) propellers then
you must find a compromise between climb and cruise performance. If
you use a propeller that gives you maximum rpm during climb then it
will exceed the rpm redline if full throttle is applied under cruise
conditions. This is not a good choice. Usually a prop is chosen
that allows for maximum cruise rpm with a reduced climb capability or
maximum climb capability with reduced cruise speed.
I hope this helps you understand the basic problem of propeller
choices. If you know which type of performance you want most then a
salesman from the propeller company can tell you which prop to
purchase. That is the easy part.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 11:28 AM 11/7/2007, you wrote:
>
>Ralph,
>Thanks for your response I'm just trying to get educated maybe its
>time to for me to do some more
>reading...but is it not true that RPM is controlled by throttle
>input and prop pitch and limited
>by HP? I guess I don't understand why the pitch of the prop could
>not be adjusted (reduced pitch
>angle) such that 3300rpm can be obtained during climb with the
>result of decreased climb
>performance? Now this definitely defeats the capability of STOL
>flight profile but still possible,
>right?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Selector |
Since we're all working from recall............. I have a '48 Bonz, I'm
sure the return rate to the left tank is 3 gph. If it was 4 gph, the
"first" 45 minute left tank burn (per the POH) wouldn't be enough. If you
were burning 8 GPH, the 45 min. would only be 6 gallons used, then when you
switch to the right tank and fly for 2 hours with a 4 gph return to the
left, you would be pumping fuel over the side, no room for it!
Regards & do not archive,
Randy, Las Vegas
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Tank Selector
<wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>
> That 4 gph is about what I remember for the Beech though it has been a
while. Hey, if we could get that return rate in a 601 we could almost fly
for free. :)
>
>
> MaxNr(at)aol.com wrote:
> > Gig is right. I owned a Beechcraft that had the only return line
emptying into the left tank. Flight Manual said in several places to
"operate the first 45 minutes on the left tank." Nobody ever had a problem
with this procedure. System was trouble free and simple. I believe that it
returned about four Gal/hr.
> >
> > Bob XL/Lyc
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: A6, A7 Rivets? |
Does anyone on the list know if A6 or A7 exist? I have two holes that are
oversized to the point that an A5 won't fit.
Dekano
----------------------------------------
Lapruebacigars (http://www.lapruebacigars.com) [Laughing] [Laughing]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144610#144610
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: A6, A7 Rivets? |
There are A6 types, but never have heard about A7s.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
dekano wrote:
>
> Does anyone on the list know if A6 or A7 exist? I have two holes that are
> oversized to the point that an A5 won't fit.
>
>
> Dekano
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: A6, A7 Rivets? |
Zenith has A6's.
Message 8
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do not archive
In ascending order after A6 and A7 the sizes are called J-B Weld-1, J-B Weld-2,
etc.
This info didn't come from ZAC.
Regards to all,
71 degrees F, clear, no wind.
Zed
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Bigger rivets |
Someone in the recent discussion came up with a banner idea...... add an A5 rivet
on each side of the oversized hole for strength, then pull an A5 in the hole
just to occlude it. Sounded like great advice to me.
Dred
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: A6, A7 Rivets? |
A6s certainly do. A few were included in my 601HD kit.
George
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "dekano" <dekano@bluebottle.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: A6, A7 Rivets?
>
> Does anyone on the list know if A6 or A7 exist? I have two holes that are
> oversized to the point that an A5 won't fit.
>
>
> Dekano
> ----------------------------------------
> Lapruebacigars (http://www.lapruebacigars.com) [Laughing] [Laughing]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144610#144610
>
>
> --
11/8/2007 9:29 AM
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel selector location? |
I owned a 1975 C182 for a number of years. It had 40 gallon tanks in each wing
and would not draw evenly on "both." To get it to fly hands off I had to install
an aftermarket aileron trim and manage my fuel by drawing from the heavy
wing. I found it to be a non-issue (even for a longtime Cessna Pilot.) I
bought a digital kitchen timer (velcroed to the instrument panel) that had a countdown
mode. When it reached Zero the display blinked (I couldn't hear the
beep) and would easily get your attention during your instrument scan.
In my opinion, simple solutions that do not require that you re-engineer something
are usually the best.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144662#144662
Message 12
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| Subject: | Dynon remote compass location |
Hi Group,
As I'm building my wings, I'm getting to the point of ordering and installing the
Dynon remote compass EDC-10a.
Has anybody experience with this and advice and pictures, thoughts?
Thanks in advance,
hans
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144664#144664
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon remote compass location |
Hans,
I put mine in the tail area, as far from steel as I could.
I don't think the wing is a good idea as it needs special attention. You will see
when you read the instructions from Dynon.
--------
Do not archive
Dan Stanton
95% done paint to go
801, IO360
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144673#144673
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon remote compass location |
Message 15
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A bit of follow-up on my list question earlier this week about oversized
rivets. But first, a little background;
I "ovaled" two holes that were meant for A5's. they are in the wing bottom,
leading edge skin and inaccessible for a backing plate or nut and bolt. I
ended up ordering 5 different Avex styles and grip lengths from Aircraft
Spruce.
My experience is that "Avex non-strt, blind rivets dome, part number
1601-0613" is a perfect fit for an oversized A5 hole. I just pulled two of
them and they don't look as terrible as I first imagined. after pulling
them, I did dress them a little with a 3M wheel on an air cut-off tool.
$0.06 each or $5.40/100.
Hope this $0.02 helps out someone....
-Brad Cohen
XL-TD
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel selector location? |
Hi John,
I agree with you. I think this is just the sort of discussion that
is really valuable on this sort of discussion medium. For those who
are tired of it, I suggest they stop reading this thread.
The reason I said the both tank selector still doesn't work for low
wing planes was meant as a complete analysis of the feature as
compared with high wing planes.
In high wing planes, all the available fuel will get to the engine
eventually with a both setting. This is simply not true for low wing
planes. Even though a both arrangement can be made to work, as you
have proved, it still must become a "One or the other tank" system as
the fuel is burned up. This being the case, it seems like a more
round wheel to just have a "One tank or the other" all the time
rather than waiting until one tank becomes empty and the engine stops
before forcing the pilot to choose a good tank.
Paul
XL fuselage
At 11:34 AM 11/6/2007, you wrote:
>Zenith-List message posted by: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1@teleshare.net>
>
>My appologies to the group for continuing this thread but as has
>been pointed out, many accidents arise from improper
>understanding,design and management of fuel systems.
>
>Paul,
>IF you agree that it is possible to empty two low wing tanks equally
>by the use of one pump in the "both" position as you seem to support
>by your kitchen test then WHY do you say it won't work several
>sentences later??
>
>My RV3 has run thru MANY thousand gallons of fuel in that
>condition(single pump drawing from both tanks) while emptying the
>tanks at the same rate . I DO concede that mine is not a very common
>case however, generally one or the other will feed more fuel.
>Someone pointed out that once you unport one of the tanks then all
>bets are off as you possibly/probably (you choose) introduce a
>bubble into the line and that changes the equation and that is absolutly true.
>My Cessna 180 fed almost twice as much fuel from one tank as the
>other while in the "both" position and that is a gravity system.
>?? I have also known other low wing operators that could NOT run
>in the "both" position as one wing or the other would empty
>completely without drawing ANY fuel from the other wing.
>
>Sorting this out is what the initial engine runs and 40 hr test
>period is for. (Among other things)
>
>Fuel delivery, lack of same really, has killed a lot of
>homebuilders. The early Glasair's had a bunch of problems with
>unporting 'till it was figured out what was causing it. The
>Lancairs (and my Glasair) did NOT as they continually pumped from
>the wing tanks to a header tank which overflowed back to a wing
>tank. The header tank then gravity fed the carb.
>John
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Selector |
I am currently flying a Technam Bravo 2004. It has dual fuel valves located
in either door post, left and right. The return line from the Rotax goes
only to the left tank. If both tanks are relatively full, and you have both
tanks selected for takeoff with the electric boost pump on, often looking
out toward the end of the left wing you will see fuel being pushed out of
the left tank overflow.
When I ask the FBO plane owner about this I was told the Bravo required both
tanks on as well as the boost pump for takeoff. After at least 500 feet
altitude, I turn off the boost pump and the overflow goes away. Seems a
waste of fuel, as this starts happening during run-up and final position for
takeoff, but is clearly spelled out in the aircraft POH.
Just their way of doing things I guess.
George
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Dynon remote compass location |
Mine is mounted in the Tail, Afterfxllc I would be worried about future
interference from high voltage coils in the location behind panel.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon remote compass location
_____
See what's new
11/8/2007 9:29 AM
11/8/2007 9:29 AM
Message 19
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| Subject: | Dynon remote compass location |
Hans--
I have two of the compasses--one for a D100 and one for a D180. I origina
lly mounted both units behind the instrument panel, however, I found that o
ne of the was affected significantly by the cabling surrounding it, however
, the other was unaffected. I then moved the disturbed unit to a mounting
on the floor of the fuse behind the passenger seat and all works well now.
I also found it very beneficial to use a digital level when installing the
compass units. Sorry no pictures
George May
601XL 912s 168 hours> Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon remote compass location
> From: hansinla@mac.com> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 16:47:00 -0800> To: zenith-
la@mac.com>> > Hi Group,> > As I'm building my wings, I'm getting to the po
int of ordering and installing the Dynon remote compass EDC-10a.> Has anybo
dy experience with this and advice and pictures, thoughts?> > Thanks in adv
ance,> > hans> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matron
====================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
!
ilnews
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon remote compass location |
That looks like a very problematic location for the remote magnetometer.
Looks like there are a lot of high current and magnetic field producing
stuff in the immediate area. Am I missing something in these photos?
Mine is in the tail behind the aft bulkhead of the baggage area.
Dred
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon remote compass location
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
See what's new
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
11/8/2007 5:55 PM
Message 21
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| Subject: | riveter nosepieces |
I'm getting ready to be another zenith homebuilder and wanted to have
Zenith grind out a couple of air riveter nosepieces for me but since
I have a habit of losing things I thought I would have two of each
nosepieces made. PROBLEM- I can't find extra nosepieces anywhere. I
plan to buy the Harbor Freight central Pneumatic air riveter ( NOW on
sale for $27.83 where I live). They don't carry extra nosepieces here.
Anyone know where I can find them? By the way do all nosepieces fit
other riveters? Hand and air? Thanks for any help.
Darrell Haas
601XL builder- Coming soon
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: riveter nosepieces |
Not a Problem. The nose pieces that come with the cheap hand puller will also
fit the pneumatic one. Harbor Freight has the hand puller sets for just a few
dollars. That is the same puller I have been using with no complaints for more
than 5000 rivets.
--------
BK Johnson
Zodiac 601XL
N601BK (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144713#144713
Message 23
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| Subject: | 5 Important mistakes |
I would like to take a shot at this one.
Engines: Going outside of the box with limited knowledge. It is
acceptable to install and run conversions, some are easier then others.
For example I happily will install a Corvair, Geo, Volkswagen and a
Subaru. These engines I am quite familiar with and would think nothing
of completely stripping down and re-building. However, I could never
install a Rotary ,Radial, turbine or a diesel as I have no knowledge
whatsoever on how to work on them. No matter which route you go even
with a FWF kit and a Aircraft motor, take the time to do it right and
learn all you can, for Jabiru and Rotax, It could just mean buying one
of www.homebuilthelp.com installation DVD's to supplement your paper
ones.
Making changes to airframe without designers approval, removing slats
that have been incorporated into the planes design loads, changing wings
or major modifications.
Time in type, prepare yourself for 5 hours in type plane before flying
your own. Also NEVER tell ANYONE the time or day of your first flight.
You should only ever have one spectator and they are there to hold fire
extinguisher and write down #'s from your radio calls. Never have an
audience that may force you to fly on a day you or your plane may not be
ready for.
High speed Taxi, no such a thing in a 601 or a 701, high speed taxi is
done on the way to the runway, just faster then a jog. Always plan on a
circuit, once you apply power to a 601 or a 701 they will be in the air,
plan for this and do a circuit, If you try to slam it down because it
took off when you didn't expect, you will be doing repairs.
Most accidents happen at this time, though most are also minor.
Only do one circuit, land your plane and inspect it, have a coffee,
whatever to get the adrenalin rush out of your system, and the smile
down to a smirk so you can concentrate again.
Never take anyone's advice as truth! ANYONES! There are some great
people on this list and there are some highly skilled people on this
list. The advice from someone who is highly skilled comes with a
background that developed the advice. It may sound good and work very
well for them, but it may not work at all for you. Take everything in,
ask many questions no matter how silly you may feel they are. Write down
all the answers and decide which is right for you, which is appropriate
for your circumstance. If still in doubt, write it up and submit it to
Zenith (or Can-Zac for Canadians) if it is major and requires a higher
knowledge then it will be approved by Chris Heintz himself.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
<purplemoon99@bellsouth.net>
Larry, I dont want to put you on the spot BUT, what would you say are
the 5
most important mistakes made on engines or aircraft,not flying mistakes.
Thank's Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM
11/8/2007 9:29 AM
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: RE:Re:3 Zodiacs down in 4 days. |
I've heard of these devices, and would love to install them in my
plane. Alas, I don't know how to find them.
Can you come up with the exact name or part numbers for these things?
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 03:16 PM 11/6/2007, you wrote:
>Military aircraft use breakaway fuel fittings. These are also used
>by the auto racing guys. The fitting separates under stress and
>shuts off like a compressed air fitting.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re:Re:Fuel Tank Selector |
Guilty as charged. Should not rely on memory. This prompted me to dig out the
AFM and look it up in the LIMITATIONS section. The "Caution" said to burn 15
gallons from the left tank first. It was also placarded on the fuel selector.
The partial fuel loads that I carried figured out to 45 minutes to bring the
tank down by 15 gal. The return rate was computed by myself and other owners as
about 4 gph based on power settings. I say again that this fuel management
aspect was never a problem for any owner. That plane was totaled in its hangar
by a hurricane and the AFM was on my desk at home.
Bob XL/Lyc
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Hi all,
Just wondering if anyone has any experience with the Australian Jabiru
FWF,as compared to the US version, for the XL.
Also, Ivoprop makes an electrically adjustable prop they claim will fit
on the 3300, any comments on this?
Darryl.
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: riveter nosepieces |
Darrell
I have a Central Pneumatic riveter and a couple of HF hand riveters. The
riveter heads for any one of these will not fit any of the others. I
haven't tried to get back-up heads, but that seems like a good idea.
I have found that the pneumatic riveter is too large diameter to set some
rivets, so I used a hand riveter for those. I suggest that you buy the
pneumatic and hand riveters at the start and send the heads for both in one
shipment to ZAC to save postage. You only need to send the heads for the
1/8" and 5/32" rivets.
I just painted all my A5 riveter heads red. Don't ask why I decided this
was a good idea.
Terry
At 08:09 PM 11/8/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm getting ready to be another zenith homebuilder and wanted to have
>Zenith grind out a couple of air riveter nosepieces for me but since
>I have a habit of losing things I thought I would have two of each
>nosepieces made. PROBLEM- I can't find extra nosepieces anywhere. I
>plan to buy the Harbor Freight central Pneumatic air riveter ( NOW on
>sale for $27.83 where I live). They don't carry extra nosepieces here.
>Anyone know where I can find them? By the way do all nosepieces fit
>other riveters? Hand and air? Thanks for any help.
>Darrell Haas
>601XL builder- Coming soon
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
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