---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/09/07: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:43 AM - If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet! :-) (Matt Dralle) 1. 12:13 AM - Re: Dynon remote compass location (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 2. 12:25 AM - Re: riveter nosepieces (burbby) 3. 12:43 AM - Re: Re:Re:3 Zodiacs down in 4 days. (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 4. 01:44 AM - Re: Dynon remote compass location (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 5. 07:15 AM - Re: Re: Powerplant Choices (Art Olechowski) 6. 09:09 AM - Re: Dynon remote compass location (GLJSOJ1) 7. 09:11 AM - Re: Dynon remote compass location (hansriet) 8. 09:14 AM - Re: riveter nosepieces (hansriet) 9. 10:14 AM - Plans Built 601 Parts and Pieces For Sale (George Race) 10. 11:14 AM - Re: 5 Important mistakes (Southern Reflections) 11. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: riveter nosepieces (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 12. 12:44 PM - Re: XL Cable rigging and fairlead (Dave Nixon) 13. 01:21 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: Jabiru FWF Ivoprop () 14. 01:45 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: Jabiru FWF Ivoprop (Gig Giacona) 15. 01:50 PM - Re: Plans Built 601 Parts and Pieces For Sale (mosquito56) 16. 01:52 PM - Re: mounting engine with body on stands. (mosquito56) 17. 02:27 PM - Re: Re: Dynon remote compass location () 18. 02:46 PM - Re: riveter nosepieces (Bryan Martin) 19. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Jabiru FWF Ivoprop (LarryMcFarland) 20. 08:35 PM - Avionics Master Switch: To install, or not to install (txpilot) 21. 11:20 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: Jabiru FWF Ivoprop (Gig Giacona) 22. 11:21 PM - Re: Avionics Master Switch: To install, or not to install (Gig Giacona) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:15 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet! :-) Dear Listers, If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because you haven't yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! Implemented for the first time last year, the Matronics system selectively sends out the Contribution messages to those that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't you wish PBS worked that way? :-) You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support requests messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal email inbox! I wanted to implement something like this for a number of years, but it was always such a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code, that I just kept putting it off. Finally last year, I just decided to bite the bullet and put the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, bam! A working system! I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site like this. 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Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Please note the following regarding the selective posting system. There are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. These situations include if someone replies to one of the messages, or when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. Since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:19 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon remote compass location Over 100 hours no problems ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:35 AM PST US From: burbby Subject: Re: Zenith-List: riveter nosepieces I bought a cheep pop rivet hand gun to get extra nose pieces. I was carefull to make sure they were the same type used in my air gun... if you find a better way of getting them let me know I could use a extra set again. Thanks Gary Bassham 601 XL Millsap, TX __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:13 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE:Re:3 Zodiacs down in 4 days. Try summit racing In a message dated 11/9/2007 12:56:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, psm@att.net writes: I've heard of these devices, and would love to install them in my plane. Alas, I don't know how to find them. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:58 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon remote compass location We first thought it might be a problem and were prepared to move it but it tracks dead on with the vertical card frankly I was more worried about radio interference but everything works great. I like this setup because everything is so compact. In a message dated 11/8/2007 11:47:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dredmoody@cox.net writes: That looks like a very problematic location for the remote magnetometer. Looks like there are a lot of high current and magnetic field producing stuff in the immediate area. Am I missing something in these photos? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:20 AM PST US From: Art Olechowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Powerplant Choices Paul, Since I'm asking such elementary questions, I'm a bit embarrassed to mention this at this point but I do have an A&P, so several years back I was quite familiar with the concept of fixed, ground-adjustable, controllable, constant speed etc...props. However, I've never practiced with my A&P in the GA world only on heavies. With that said, I'm trying revive all that good info I was taught in school relating to GA because as the old saying goes "if you don't use it, you lose it". I do agree a constant speed, controllable or a two position controllable pitch prop would be the ideal solution to match the UL engine rpm with prop pitch to obtain the best climb and cruise performance. I still believe that the UL could achieve 3300RPM in climb with the correct prop pitch and swing but the inability to increase prop pitch at cruise would jepordize your speed capability as mentioned by Ralph and if power was not reduced at straight and level the engine would be over redlined as you mentioned. At this point, I'm not certain I would want to tinker enough to find the best performance comprimise but the UL engine features sure do look appealing... Thanks for the refresher course, if we cross paths in the future I owe you both a beer. do not archive Art --- Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > Hi Art, > > I think the whole subject of prop pitch vs. rpm vs. horsepower and > torque is a bit too complicated for the simple statements you made. > > The ideal solution to all this would be to have a variable pitch > propeller with a governor that adjusts the prop pitch to give the > desired rpm at the current engine setting and flight condition (climb > or descend or level flight). Such a device already has been invented > - it is called a constant speed propeller. All high performance > planes with propellers are equipped with this gizmo. This is clearly > the ideal solution for performance at the expense of complex > equipment with corresponding cost. It also gives a poorly trained > pilot the opportunity to break the engine if he sets the controls > improperly. I presume it is for these reasons (cost and risk) that > this wonderful equipment is denied to Sport Pilots. > > If you are limited to fixed (or ground adjustable) propellers then > you must find a compromise between climb and cruise performance. If > you use a propeller that gives you maximum rpm during climb then it > will exceed the rpm redline if full throttle is applied under cruise > conditions. This is not a good choice. Usually a prop is chosen > that allows for maximum cruise rpm with a reduced climb capability or > maximum climb capability with reduced cruise speed. > > I hope this helps you understand the basic problem of propeller > choices. If you know which type of performance you want most then a > salesman from the propeller company can tell you which prop to > purchase. That is the easy part. > > Paul > XL fuselage > > > At 11:28 AM 11/7/2007, you wrote: > > > >Ralph, > >Thanks for your response I'm just trying to get educated maybe its > >time to for me to do some more > >reading...but is it not true that RPM is controlled by throttle > >input and prop pitch and limited > >by HP? I guess I don't understand why the pitch of the prop could > >not be adjusted (reduced pitch > >angle) such that 3300rpm can be obtained during climb with the > >result of decreased climb > >performance? Now this definitely defeats the capability of STOL > >flight profile but still possible, > >right? > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:51 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon remote compass location From: "GLJSOJ1" I WAS ORIGINALLY PUTTING MINE JUST UNDER THE STABILIZER, HOWEVER WHEN I USED MY HANDY DANDY ELECTRONIC LEVEL TO GET IT LEVEL, I MAGNETIZED THE STEEL CABLES TO THE ELEVATOR WITH THE MAGNETS IN THE BOTTOM OF IT.. THEN I HAD TO MOVE IT TO THE BOTTOM OF THE FUSELAGE IN THE TAIL AND SEEMS TO WORK FINE. GLENN -------- 601XL BUILDER ALMOST DONE CHESAPEAKE VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144814#144814 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:15 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon remote compass location From: "hansriet" Thanks for all your replies. Seems that the tail is a better place to mount the remote compass. That means that I can put off the purchase for a little longer. Hans Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144815#144815 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: riveter nosepieces From: "hansriet" I ordered some extra nose pieces via the Harbor Freight customer service. I don't remember exactly but I think I paid in the order of $10 for the set plus $7 shipping. hans Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144816#144816 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:50 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Plans Built 601 Parts and Pieces For Sale Listeners: Our EAA Chapter has been the recipient of one or our members CH-601HD plans built project. Our goal is to turn the project into some cash for the Chapter and make some future flyer a great deal. You can see pictures of what is in the "pile" at: http://www.eaa304.com/zenair.htm The workmanship is very good on the completed components. Completed are the Rudder, Elevator and Stabilizer, Center Fuselage with Wing Stubs, Wing Spars and Ribs, Firewall, and a lot more of the smaller parts. Has to be seen to realize how much stuff comes with the package. A couple of pickup truck loads in all. Included are the complete Zenith Plans and Information package as well. Lots of spare materials. Can't say for sure but it looks like enough sheet aluminum to complete the wings and balance of the fuselage. Also a lot of spare aluminum materials of all shapes and sizes. The pictures do not do the project justice and were taken in a hurry by one of the Members. If you are seriously interested I would be happy to take some high quality digital pictures of what is there and send them your way by email. You could also fly into KJXN, Jackson Michigan, and taxi right up to the EAA Hangar and inspect what is there for yourself. Would need to know you were coming to make sure someone was there to greet you. Most days the Chapter Club House is open between 8 AM and Noon. For more information you can contact EAA Chapter 304 President, Earl Scott at (517) 783-3988, or you can email me for additional details or to make arrangements for a visit or additional pictures. My direct email is: george@mrrace.com We are thinking a reasonable good price for all that is there will be in the area of $4000 for everything as a package. Will consider any offers that are made for the package. Crating and Shipping is not an option for the Chapter, and you will be responsible for making the arrangements to get it to your location. George - Building CH-701 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:59 AM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 5 Important mistakes Very helpful, Zodie. Thank's Joe N101HD 601XL/ RAM ----- Original Message ----- From: "ZodieRocket" Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:53 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 5 Important mistakes > > I would like to take a shot at this one. > > Engines: Going outside of the box with limited knowledge. It is > acceptable to install and run conversions, some are easier then others. > For example I happily will install a Corvair, Geo, Volkswagen and a > Subaru. These engines I am quite familiar with and would think nothing > of completely stripping down and re-building. However, I could never > install a Rotary ,Radial, turbine or a diesel as I have no knowledge > whatsoever on how to work on them. No matter which route you go even > with a FWF kit and a Aircraft motor, take the time to do it right and > learn all you can, for Jabiru and Rotax, It could just mean buying one > of www.homebuilthelp.com installation DVD's to supplement your paper > ones. > > Making changes to airframe without designers approval, removing slats > that have been incorporated into the planes design loads, changing wings > or major modifications. > > Time in type, prepare yourself for 5 hours in type plane before flying > your own. Also NEVER tell ANYONE the time or day of your first flight. > You should only ever have one spectator and they are there to hold fire > extinguisher and write down #'s from your radio calls. Never have an > audience that may force you to fly on a day you or your plane may not be > ready for. > > High speed Taxi, no such a thing in a 601 or a 701, high speed taxi is > done on the way to the runway, just faster then a jog. Always plan on a > circuit, once you apply power to a 601 or a 701 they will be in the air, > plan for this and do a circuit, If you try to slam it down because it > took off when you didn't expect, you will be doing repairs. > Most accidents happen at this time, though most are also minor. > Only do one circuit, land your plane and inspect it, have a coffee, > whatever to get the adrenalin rush out of your system, and the smile > down to a smirk so you can concentrate again. > > Never take anyone's advice as truth! ANYONES! There are some great > people on this list and there are some highly skilled people on this > list. The advice from someone who is highly skilled comes with a > background that developed the advice. It may sound good and work very > well for them, but it may not work at all for you. Take everything in, > ask many questions no matter how silly you may feel they are. Write down > all the answers and decide which is right for you, which is appropriate > for your circumstance. If still in doubt, write it up and submit it to > Zenith (or Can-Zac for Canadians) if it is major and requires a higher > knowledge then it will be approved by Chris Heintz himself. > > Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario > Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started > www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com > > -----Original Message----- > > > Larry, I dont want to put you on the spot BUT, what would you say are > the 5 > most important mistakes made on engines or aircraft,not flying mistakes. > > Thank's Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM > > > 11/8/2007 9:29 AM > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:09 PM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: riveter nosepieces I got one tool from Zenith and one from HF. The nose piece had difference threads. DO NOT ARCHIVE Jerry of GA ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:37 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: XL Cable rigging and fairlead From: "Dave Nixon" That angle bracket has to be installed per plans. The construction manual doesn't address it. As for cable rigging, after the drawings on page 6B-23 you are pretty much on your own. In my particular instance, I didn't use turnbuckles at the 6B-17 Elevator horn. I used DETAIL "S" instead and put the turnbuckles above the access hole in the rear of the fuselage for ease of adjustment, tension monitoring and double spiral wrapping with .041 wire. I couldn't even see the the bottom of the 6B-17 elevator horn let alone work on adjusting and safety wiring. I think Zenith really missed this one. But I figured it out and you can too. That's why this list works. Also, it is interesting to note that Northern Tool has the same 1/8" cable for a lot less, so if you mess up get it from them after you have checked out their cable. Dave Nixon CH 601XL with Jabiru 3300 90% complete /90% To Go Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144829#144829 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:14 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Digest: Jabiru FWF Ivoprop From: I strongly considered the Ivoprop with my lyc 0-235. The issues that lead me to choose the Warp drive prop were; the Medium prop is only rated (according to their website) for 100 hp on direct drive engines. Also using an in-flight adjustable prop prohibits the plane from being flown under LSA rules. I know of one individual running an Ivoprop and he installed the Magnum, which is twice the weight at 26 pounds. I really liked the idea of an in-flight adjustable prop but I think the Warp drive optimized for cruise will work fine for me. Craig S. Hi all, Just wondering if anyone has any experience with the Australian Jabiru FWF,as compared to the US version, for the XL. Also, Ivoprop makes an electrically adjustable prop they claim will fit on the 3300, any comments on this? Darryl. ----------------------------------------- ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. ************************************************** ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:25 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Jabiru FWF Ivoprop From: "Gig Giacona" Completely unscientific but interesting none the less. A Google search with the words Ivo prop failures produces 60,400 results Warp Drive Prop failures produces 14,900 Sensenich Prop failures produces only 970 Now think about how long Sensenich has been in business. Also admittedly many people probably misspell Sensenich but I'll still go with them. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144838#144838 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:12 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Plans Built 601 Parts and Pieces For Sale From: "mosquito56" Crating and shipping not an option takes about 3/4 of the country out of the loop. You could have a "let's crate this puppy up" day and make a few extra bucks for the chapter. I was going to step 2 when I noticed your info on crating. I live on the bottom of the country and you live on the top. Ahh well, just my 3 cents worth Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144839#144839 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: mounting engine with body on stands. From: "mosquito56" What could that possible have to do with the subject of Mounting engines. How could anyone think this was the place to inquire about getting another type of list. LETS TRY TO STAY ON SUBJECT PLEASE!!!!! -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144842#144842 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:50 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Dynon remote compass location You can, however download the installation instructions in advance to help you plan your mount. Dred ---- hansriet wrote: > > Thanks for all your replies. Seems that the tail is a better place to mount the remote compass. That means that I can put off the purchase for a little longer. > > Hans > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144815#144815 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:04 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: riveter nosepieces I bought the Harbor Freight riveter and ordered replacement heads for it. It came with a replacement parts list and I used the phone number on the form to order the heads. I paid about four dollars including shipping. On Nov 8, 2007, at 11:09 PM, Darrell Haas wrote: > I'm getting ready to be another zenith homebuilder and wanted to have > Zenith grind out a couple of air riveter nosepieces for me but since > I have a habit of losing things I thought I would have two of each > nosepieces made. PROBLEM- I can't find extra nosepieces anywhere. I > plan to buy the Harbor Freight central Pneumatic air riveter ( NOW on > sale for $27.83 where I live). They don't carry extra nosepieces here. > Anyone know where I can find them? By the way do all nosepieces fit > other riveters? Hand and air? Thanks for any help. > Darrell Haas > 601XL builder- Coming soon -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:22 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Jabiru FWF Ivoprop Gig, The search doesn't say whether these were failures contemplated, failures searched or failure to go as fast as desired. You need a better stick than that. Warp Drive owners props are lifetime warranted which is hard to beat. Lycoming is old too and still paying for their bad cranks. Larry McFarland 601HDS at macsmachine.com do not archive Gig Giacona wrote: > > Completely unscientific but interesting none the less. > > A Google search with the words > > Ivo prop failures produces 60,400 results > > Warp Drive Prop failures produces 14,900 > > Sensenich Prop failures produces only 970 > > Now think about how long Sensenich has been in business. > > Also admittedly many people probably misspell Sensenich but I'll still go with them. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144838#144838 > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:19 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Avionics Master Switch: To install, or not to install From: "txpilot" I'm currently working on my electrical system using Bob Nuckoll's 'Aeroelectric Design' book as a guide. This book is an excellent resource, but I'm not sure about his suggestion not to install an avionics master switch. He claims it causes more problems than it solves because the switch itself can be a single point of failure for all avionics. He also says modern avionics are robust enough to take voltage fluctuations and therefore don't need an AMS. I'm planning on installing relatively old technology radios: KX-155, KT-76A and a standard sigtronics intercom. Any thoughts? What's everyone else doing? BTW - I'm not intending on installing a secondary AMS. This is a day VFR only airplane and I'm trying to keep it simple. Thanks, Dan Ginty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144863#144863 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:53 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Jabiru FWF Ivoprop From: "Gig Giacona" Larry, I said it was completely unscientific but I think the difference between the three with that search term is interesting. That's big ass difference. larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: > Gig, > The search doesn't say whether these were failures contemplated, > failures searched or failure to go as fast as desired. > You need a better stick than that. Warp Drive owners props are lifetime > warranted which is hard to beat. > Lycoming is old too and still paying for their bad cranks. > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144871#144871 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Avionics Master Switch: To install, or not to install From: "Gig Giacona" All I can say is I've never flown and aircraft that had an electrical system that didn't have one. That doesn't make it right but... txpilot wrote: > I'm currently working on my electrical system using Bob Nuckoll's 'Aeroelectric Design' book as a guide. This book is an excellent resource, but I'm not sure about his suggestion not to install an avionics master switch. He claims it causes more problems than it solves because the switch itself can be a single point of failure for all avionics. > > He also says modern avionics are robust enough to take voltage fluctuations and therefore don't need an AMS. I'm planning on installing relatively old technology radios: KX-155, KT-76A and a standard sigtronics intercom. > > Any thoughts? What's everyone else doing? BTW - I'm not intending on installing a secondary AMS. This is a day VFR only airplane and I'm trying to keep it simple. > > Thanks, > > Dan Ginty -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144874#144874 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.