Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:25 AM - List of Contributors (Matt Dralle)
1. 02:59 AM - oil thermastat (Ken and Cathy Buchmann)
2. 03:34 AM - Re: Pegastol Wings (kmccune)
3. 05:15 AM - Re: Van's vents in 601 HD? (Aaron Gustafson)
4. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: Powerplant Choices (Dennis Shoup)
5. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Pegastol Wings (Sean Moore)
6. 08:09 AM - Re: what size screw?? (Carlos Sa)
7. 08:42 AM - Re: oil thermastat (nyterminat@aol.com)
8. 08:49 AM - Fw: Fw: nutplates (Carlos Sa)
9. 09:03 AM - Thanks (Bill Steer)
10. 09:19 AM - Fw: Fw: nutplates (Gig Giacona)
11. 09:47 AM - Re: riveter nosepiece (John Reinking)
12. 09:51 AM - Zenith Fuel Senders and water (John Davis)
13. 10:04 AM - Re: riveter nosepiece (Paul Mulwitz)
14. 10:12 AM - Re: oil thermastat (Mark Sherman)
15. 10:32 AM - Re: riveter nosepiece (Terry Phillips)
16. 11:09 AM - Re: Fw: Fw: nutplates (Carlos Sa)
17. 11:33 AM - Re: riveter nosepiece (Randy L. Thwing)
18. 11:50 AM - Re: oil thermastat (nyterminat@aol.com)
19. 12:19 PM - Re: Van's vents in 601 HD?Van's vents in 601 HD? (paul baker)
20. 12:31 PM - another nosepiece tidbit (Zed Smith)
21. 12:48 PM - Re: Fw: Fw: nutplates (George Swinford)
22. 01:00 PM - 3/32 pop rivets (Jeff Small)
23. 01:06 PM - Re: Van's vents in 601 HD?Van's vents in 601 HD? (Russell J.)
24. 02:02 PM - Re: oil thermostat (Klaus Truemper)
25. 03:59 PM - Re: riveter nosepiece (Bob Unternaehrer)
26. 04:02 PM - Re: 3/32 pop rivets (Brad Cohen)
27. 04:46 PM - Re: Pegastol Wings (kmccune)
28. 05:12 PM - Re: 3/32 pop rivets (Jeff)
29. 07:14 PM - Re: Zenith Fuel Senders and water (Jon Croke)
30. 07:31 PM - Re: riveter nosepiece (Randy L. Thwing)
31. 09:07 PM - Progress - thanks to good old Dad! (jhines)
32. 10:32 PM - Re: Pegastol Wings (RayStL)
Message 0
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| Subject: | List of Contributors |
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of
my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment
tool as your typical magazine subscription!
Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is
fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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Has anyone installed a oil thermastat on the 912 uls on a 701? I am in
the process and am having a few issues of finding a location for the
thermastat. Would like some experienced advice.
Ken
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pegastol Wings |
For anyone wondering about this wing, Raymond is ramping up for production but
not quit there yet. So I have posted the link to the web archive of the old Dedalius
website. I'm not sure if the new wing will be exactly the same or not
and I don't want to infer that it will or will not be. But when I went looking
for info on this wing I came up goose eggs, until I found this link...
http://web.archive.org/web/20040217134511/www.dedaliusaviation.com/newdedalius/anglais.htm
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145671#145671
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Van's vents in 601 HD? |
I haven't installed them yet but have in my possession I see no problem
with enough room.
Aaron Gustafson HDTD 42 hours
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Powerplant Choices |
There is one advantage for the 912 over the S. It runs on regular
auto gas, the S needs premium, so the cost of operation is less. I am
building a 601XL with Jabiru 3300 so the whole discussion is academic
but interesting.
Dennis Shoup
N601JJ
On Nov 12, 2007 7:30 PM, ZodieRocket <zodierocket@hsfx.ca> wrote:
>
> I love this conversation, when is enough , enough? Well never, but when
> is enough adequate, that is the question. Lets look at the 701 she will
> happily put along on 60hp shes will have adequate stol performance and
> cruise at an appreciable 70 mph. But no one installs a 582 anymore,
> everyone installs a Rotax 912, this is a great performer and your plane
> will cruise at a robust 90 mph with some clean up, stol performance will
> be enviable to everyone. If you are buying a used 912 and getting a
> great deal then you have the perfect engine, but if your buying new then
> the 912S is typically only $1,500 dollars more. SO for that extra cash
> which in the whole cost isn't that much, you have a plane that can
> cruise at 95-105 mph, STOL is sickening to anyone's stomach and it
> climbs vertically. DO we need this? Not for most of us, but lets look at
> the 100 deg day at 5000 ft strip. Would the engine that didn't cost much
> extra, uses little more in fuel burn and weighs the same as the lower hp
> motor not make more sense? 20 hp makes a big difference if it isn't a
> big difference in the pocket book. Now lets look at the 914, here is
> another 15 hp above the 912S we cannot cruise any faster because we are
> already close to Vne we won't notice the climb rate unless we are at
> high altitude. Plus the engine is $14,000 more then the 100hp this is
> the value that does not make sense. The engine will not do anything more
> for us, but it will cost us a hell of a lot more. We will not realize
> value for performance. Both the 912 and 912S are capable of the same
> slow flight cost is of little difference when new, so in this case the
> extra 20 hp are desirable.
>
> In the 601HD she will happily put along on 70hp, but at that fly-in that
> you landed at first thing this morning and the heat when crazy will I
> have enough runway to take off? Having more HP is not just for flying
> faster, it is for the ability to use the resources we want to. A short
> strip on a very hot day may be too much for a low powered plane. That
> extra 20hp may make the difference. The problem is to know when airframe
> gain is eclipsed by pocketbook drain.
>
> IF you can afford a 70 hp motor, but the 90 hp is less then a couple
> thousand it is sometimes better to wait that little extra, remember your
> going to have this plane a long time as a rule. But if were looking at a
> huge difference in cost then 70 hp is adequate and you will still have a
> fun plane. Though you will also be aware that some runways and
> situations may not be advisable for you. Heat and altitude conditions
> are more critical.
>
> There is always a limit. More is not always better, but if it is within
> reason to costs and airframe then more may be desirable.
>
> When it comes down to a Rotax 912 over the 912S, in Canada the cost
> difference is less then $1,500.00 for this amount I can never recommend
> the straight 912 unless you are able to find a half time one for a good
> cost. Only then do you have a reasonable value for HP output.
>
> Look over your options, Look over your abilities, look at your mission.
> These things will dictate which each of us will desire, not the other
> fellow that may fly a different mission.
>
>
> Mark Townsend
> Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
> president@can-zacaviation.com
> www.can-zacaviation.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave G.
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 4:18 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Powerplant Choices
>
>
> An 80 HP 912 should be more than enough. That doesn't mean it's enough
> for
> everyone, there is a LARGE segment of aviation who adhere to the more is
>
> always better philosophy. IF they could mount 200hp on a 601, they
> would. My
> old BMW motorcycle has a thirty something HP engine, the same frame was
> available with engines up to 2/3 larger. There are a lot of people
> trying to
> extract more HP from that larger engine in the belief that they don't
> have
> enough power. If you simply want to fly a relaxing and enjoyable plane
> 80 is
> enough, if you want to hit pattern altitude before you have used up a
> 1000
> ft runway, you'll need more.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 4:22 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Powerplant Choices
>
>
> >
> > Does 20hp really make that much of a difference? The 601HD was
> originally
> > designed for 65hp if I'm not mistaken.
> >
> > I've heard that it takes 25% more power to go 10% faster. Personally,
> I'd
> > guess that an 80hp engine, even on a 601XL is sufficient.
> >
>
>
> 11/11/2007 9:50 PM
>
>
> 11/11/2007 9:50 PM
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pegastol Wings |
Nice find on the wayback machine! I also had come up with zero when
searching around about this wing.
Anyone here using the PegaStol wing? Care to give us some performance
data? Is each slat independent or are they linked together?
I wonder what the use of flaps and ailerons does to things like roll
rate and crosswind capability.
On Nov 13, 2007 4:31 AM, kmccune <kmccune@somtel.net> wrote:
>
> For anyone wondering about this wing, Raymond is ramping up for production but
not quit there yet. So I have posted the link to the web archive of the old
Dedalius website. I'm not sure if the new wing will be exactly the same or not
and I don't want to infer that it will or will not be. But when I went looking
for info on this wing I came up goose eggs, until I found this link...
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20040217134511/www.dedaliusaviation.com/newdedalius/anglais.htm
>
> Kevin
>
> --------
> Kevin
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145671#145671
>
>
--
Sean Moore
moore.sean@gmail.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: what size screw?? |
Dred, you did answer my question (it is a #8 screw) - thanks much !
The precise piece of information I was looking for, I found in Wikipedia
(right under my nose, but I guess my brain was already sleeping when I
posted my note last night):
"Machine screws are described as 0-80, 2-56, 3-48, 4-40, 5-40, 6-32, 8-32,
10-32, 10-24, etc. up to size 16. The first number can be translated to a
diameter, the second is the number of threads per inch. There is a coarse
thread and a fine thread for each size, the fine thread being preferred in
thin materials or when its slightly greater strength is desired.
The numbering system follows a roughly logarithmic series where an increase
in each screw number size approximately doubles the tensile strength of the
screw and is given by Dia = (#N X .013") + .060" Using this formula a #5
screw has a major diameter of .125" (1/8"), a #10 screw has a diameter of
.190" (or 3/16" in practical terms), etc. The formula applies for screw
thread numbers #0 and higher, but does NOT apply to smaller Unified
miniature screw thread series. Typically screws smaller than size #0 are
supplied in the Unified Miniature Series. The formula for number sizes
smaller than size #0 is given by Dia = .060" - (#zerosize X .013). So a #00
screw is .047" dia, #000 is .034" dia, etc.
The number series of machine screws once included odd numbers (7, 9, etc.)
and extended up to #16 or more. Standardization efforts in the late 19th and
the early part of the 20th century reduced the range of sizes considerably.
Now, it is less common to see machine screws larger than #14, or odd number
sizes other than #1, #3 and #5. Even though #14 and #16 screws are still
available, they are not as common as sizes #0 through #12.
Sizes 1/4" diameter and larger are designated as 1/4"-20, 1/4"-28, etc. the
first number giving the diameter in inches and the second number being *threads
per inch*. Most thread sizes are available in UNC or UC (Unified Coarse
Thread, example 1/4"-20) or UNF or UF (Unified Fine Thread, example
1/4"-28)."
------------------
Carlos
On 13/11/2007, Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net> wrote:
>
> No tsure exactly what you are asking about the size of the NAS514P832-6P
> screw, so here is the whole deal:
>
> It is a #8 screw. It has 32 pitch threads so it fits a K1000-08 or any
> nutplate made for an 8-32 screw. It is 3/8" long (.375"). It requires a #8
> dimple to fit flush.
>
> Dred
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: oil thermastat |
Ken,
I installed the oil thermostat from Lockwood aviation on my 701. I installed it
on the motor mount on the right side near the firewall.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/912S/140hrs
Has anyone installed a oil thermastat on the 912 uls on a 701? I am in the process
and am having a few issues of finding a location for the thermastat. Would
like some experienced advice.
?
Ken
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Fwd: Fw: nutplates |
Hello, listers
Jeff Small sent me some good information off-list.
With hist permission, I am forwarding to the list.
Cheers
Carlos
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Hi Carlos, FWIW...jeff
Many builders seem to gravitate toward rivnuts when it comes to fasteners
that receive screws or machine screws. They really should be using
nutplates as nutplates are far stronger than rivnuts and are far, far less
likely to "spin" when tightening or loosening.
The main reason for looking askance initially at nutplates is that many
builders may view them as more difficult to install. That they are, but as
with anything in building an a/c it gets far easier.
In my HDS I may have 6 rivnuts but dozens and dozens of nutplates and anchor
plates - ever hear of anchor plates?
Hopefully this info will get you started, or at least view nutplates with a
bit less trepidation.
Variety is endless; you can use AC43-13 to look over the selection or look
at the pictures in the Wicks catalogue. While there are some specialized
one, most of the nutplates you use for a 601/701 will be the standard
straight styles in 6-32 or 8-32. Often the 'mini' size comes in handy. I
used some floating nutplates but mainly because I had ordered some to see
what they were like and decided not to waste my $ but to put them to use.
Nutplates are structural fittings and if sized correctly are quite strong.
If you just want to have something for an access plate fastener you will
like anchor plates. Anchor plates use SS sheet metal screws with a 'B'
point - that's important. Again, look at the pictures in Wicks or ACS.
You need to attach plates with flush rivets, but this doesn't mean you need
to get all aluminum rivets and do the RV thing. Get some flat or
countersunk head 3/32 pop rivets from Wicks (they can be cheap). When you
rivet you'll use a flat nosepiece in your hand riveter, not the domed/dished
nosepieces you normally use. To make it flush you need to do two things
which at first seem to take a lot of time but will get easier as you go.
One is to dimple the surface of the .016 or. 025 sheet; second is to take
the nutplate and using your drill press and about a 1/4 bit, lightly chamfer
the side of the nutplate that will go against the sheet or surface to which
you want it attached. Use pliers to hold and you'll catch on as to how much
chamfer to remove. You can sometimes (rarely) find already 'dimpled'
nutplates but not often. If you are at the beginning of your building
experience I would highly recommend buying a micro-stop and a variety of the
pilot cutters (at least in #40 and #30). The cutters make countersinking in
thicker aluminum, .032 and up, a breeze. Not certain I would use them on
the steel in the actual nutplate, however.
Application: drill the center hole for the screw first and make it as close
to the diameter of the screw as possible. Put a screw through the sheet and
into the nutplate. From underside, mark where the two holes go for rivets.
I normally drill one on the mark (use a .093 bit) then use a silver cleco in
that hole and drill the other through the other hole. Removed cleco and
screw and rivet plate to sheet. It's a good idea to open up the center hole
about another .010 before riveting to allow for easy starting and
alignment. That's it.
The dimple tool that you see (looks like two fat washers and a nail) comes
from Aircraft Tool Supply (part # 5102D 3/32 and also in #5102D1/8). They
have them in 3/32 and 1/8. Get both. Someday you will want to hang big
10-32 nutplates on the back of the firewall so you don't have to get inside
on your head to swap out a gascolator or fuel pump - you will be glad you
can do it from the front of the firewall. Same thing goes for other places
where getting to the back of a bolt/nut would be awkward or impossible.
The first pix shows variety of what I used, the two in the center being most
useful, the one in the upper right which is greenish in color is an anchor
plate - you can see difference.
Second shows how to form dimple using your hand riveter.
Third shows dimple. This could be cleaner up further if you have a
micro-stop and #40 pilot cutter - go slowly as the .016 and .025 with which
we deal doesn't allow much for error.
And that's about it, simple really and unbelievably functional. Far
stronger than rivnuts...and on rivnuts; if you take a very small triangular
file and file a small notch or two in the hole, the metal will obturate into
those areas a bit and add a small amount of 'turn resistance' when
tightening the screw.
regards jeff
Message 9
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Thanks to everybody who responded to my question about whether the Van's
vents will fit in my 601HD. The order is in to Van's!
Bill
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Fwd: Fw: nutplates |
That is great info. The only problem is I can't find a 3/32 pop rivet with a flat
or countersunk head. All the ones I can locate are domed. Anyone have a Wick's
(or other) part number?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145742#145742
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: riveter nosepiece |
I'm just starting when the rudder kit arrives. Inquired with ZA
regarding their nosepieces. Ms. Swearingen replied that they offer
their custom machined heads for the A4, A5s for $11.90 each. What
advantage do their nosepieces have over the ones I got from Harbor
Freight insofar as strength and aerodynamic qualities on the
construction? Noted that several of the group are simply ordering
replacements from Harbor for about $12.00 (for the 3 nosepieces?).
Appreciate your comments AND this really helpful site.
Cordially, John Reinking, Woodinville, WA
Message 12
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| Subject: | Zenith Fuel Senders and water |
Hi Guys,
I've seen a post on some forums that using water to test your fuel tanks
will ruin the Zenith fuel senders (they didnt say why it would), and now
I've seen a builder's website where he used water to test for leaks in
his tanks and check the senders.
So, will water damage the senders ?
Thanks in advance,
John Davis
Burnsville, NC
601XL - Jab 3300
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: riveter nosepiece |
Hi John,
As you guessed, you are doing a little comparison of apples to oranges.
The Zenith nose pieces have been reshaped to form a dome top on the
rivets supplied in the kit. This is necessary to build your
plane. You cannot use the Harbor Freight, or any other rivet setter
nose piece, until you have ground the hollow shape needed. You can
do this yourself or get someone like ZAC to do it for you.
The other issue is whether the reshaped nose pieces will fit your
riveter. If you buy the ones from ZAC they definitely will not fit
the Harbor Freight riveter (well, they might fit one or the other of
the Harbor Freight riveters but certainly not both). The ones you
can order from ZAC probably fit the riveter they sell.
It isn't very difficult to grind the shape needed into the nose
pieces if you are oriented toward that sort of work. I have made
several of them both from scratch and by grinding the nose pieces
that come with various riveters. The trick is to get the final rivet
produced to just fit the application without leaving the edges
hanging in the air or having grooves pressed into them.
You can send your nose pieces to ZAC for grinding or perhaps do it
yourself. If you are so inclined, I recommend you get a couple of
the lower priced Harbor Freight pneumatic riveters and install an A4
sized nose piece in one and A5 size in the other one. You can get
the riveters on sale around $25 each and this will save you from
constantly changing the nose pieces. Also, the list members all seem
to agree that the Harbor freight riveter is the best one available.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 09:45 AM 11/13/2007, you wrote:
> I'm just starting when the rudder kit arrives. Inquired with ZA
> regarding their nosepieces. Ms. Swearingen replied that they offer
> their custom machined heads for the A4, A5s for $11.90 each. What
> advantage do their nosepieces have over the ones I got from Harbor
> Freight insofar as strength and aerodynamic qualities on the
> construction? Noted that several of the group are simply ordering
> replacements from Harbor for about $12.00 (for the 3
> nosepieces?). Appreciate your comments AND this really helpful site.
>
>Cordially, John Reinking, Woodinville, WA
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: oil thermastat |
Bob,
If you have any pictures of your installation could you send them to me off list
or post them?
Thanks
Mark S.
701/912ULS
----- Original Message ----
From: "nyterminat@aol.com" <nyterminat@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 8:40:28 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: oil thermastat
Ken,
I installed the oil thermostat from Lockwood aviation on my 701. I installed it
on the motor mount on the right side near the firewall.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/912S/140hrs
Has anyone installed a oil thermastat on the 912 uls on a 701? I am in the process
and am having a few issues of finding a location for the thermastat. Would
like some experienced advice.
Ken
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.
Make Yahoo! your homepage.
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: riveter nosepiece |
John
The advantage of the HF nosepieces is that they will fit the HF riveter. I
presume that Zenith nosepieces fit the riveter they sell. So, if you have a
HF riveter, you'd best use their nosepieces.
However, the nosepieces must be machined to form the flathead rivets into
ZAC's required dome shape. You can either send HF nosepieces (or those from
any other riveter) to ZAC to be machined for $8/ea (<1 week turnaround), or
you can machine them yourselves. If you search the archives, you can
probably find some info on doing your own machining. You only need to
machine the A4 and A5 nosepieces.
Terry
At 09:45 AM 11/13/2007 -0800, you wrote:
> I'm just starting when the rudder kit arrives. Inquired with ZA
> regarding their nosepieces. Ms. Swearingen replied that they offer their
> custom machined heads for the A4, A5s for $11.90 each. What advantage
> do their nosepieces have over the ones I got from Harbor Freight insofar
> as strength and aerodynamic qualities on the construction? Noted that
> several of the group are simply ordering replacements from Harbor for
> about $12.00 (for the 3 nosepieces?). Appreciate your comments AND this
> really helpful site.
>
>Cordially, John Reinking, Woodinville, WA
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Fw: nutplates |
Not easy to find, indeed.
I found Cherry N at Wicks:
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=2118/index.html
Description: "120 DEGREE COUNTERSUNK
Cherry N commercial rivet.Stainless rivet and mandrel with 120 Degree
countersunk head."
Cheers
Carlos
On 13/11/2007, Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
> wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>
> That is great info. The only problem is I can't find a 3/32 pop rivet with
> a flat or countersunk head. All the ones I can locate are domed. Anyone have
> a Wick's (or other) part number?
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: riveter nosepiece |
>From the archives: do not archive
The Dremel works fine and fast, use a small green round ball (silicon
carbide) or any other stone that has a point or round end, Put the
riviet
gun head in the lathe chuck and while spinning it, fire off the
moto-tool,
hold it with both hands braced against whatever is nearby, and shape the
end
in a nice conical shape, starting from the hole in the center and
working
outward, keep the cone shallow, you can always go deeper. No gottem
lathe?
Sure you do, put your fastest turning pistol grip drill motor in your
workbench vise, usually upside down with pistol grip up, (up is towards
the
sky for you airplane builders!) tighten vise enough to hold drill case,
not
crushing it where the armature will never turn again! Place the rivet
head
in the drill chuck and lock the trigger back and grind away. Takes
longer
to describe than to do, finish with emery cloth if your stones grind
course.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: BRIAN HOPE
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:43 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: rivet gun mods
>
> I have scoured the archives but can't find anything about modifying
rivet
> gun heads, though I seem to recall reading that a certain Dremel
cutter
> would do a satisfactory job.
> Has anybody carried out the mods themselves and if so could they offer
some
> advice.
> Many thanks Brian Hope. Scratch building a 601 in lil'ol England, home
of
> the $5 per gallon Avgas !
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: riveter nosepiece
John
The advantage of the HF nosepieces is that they will fit the HF
riveter. I presume that Zenith nosepieces fit the riveter they sell. So,
if you have a HF riveter, you'd best use their nosepieces.
However, the nosepieces must be machined to form the flathead rivets
into ZAC's required dome shape. You can either send HF nosepieces (or
those from any other riveter) to ZAC to be machined for $8/ea (<1 week
turnaround), or you can machine them yourselves. If you search the
archives, you can probably find some info on doing your own machining.
You only need to machine the A4 and A5 nosepieces.
Terry
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: oil thermastat |
Mark,
Don't think that I have any off hand but will see about taking some for you
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sherman <msherman95632@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 1:12 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: oil thermastat
Bob,
?
If you have any pictures of your installation could you send them to me off list
or post them?
?
Thanks
?
Mark S.
701/912ULS
----- Original Message ----
From: "nyterminat@aol.com" <nyterminat@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 8:40:28 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: oil thermastat
Ken,
I installed the oil thermostat from Lockwood aviation on my 701. I installed it
on the motor mount on the right side near the firewall.
?
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/912S/140hrs
Has anyone installed a oil thermastat on the 912 uls on a 701? I am in the process
and am having a few issues of finding a location for the thermastat. Would
like some experienced advice.
?
Ken
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Van's vents in 601 HD?Van's vents in 601 HD? |
I installed the Van nasa inlets and vents in my601HD. that took care of
the cooling of me. But I have a problem cooling
my oil. I purchased the plane last fall and had a problem all
summer. The oil would sometimes get to 250 and that is not
good.The oil cooler is located at the bottom of the firewall and is fed
air through the nasa vent on the side. I even put
a scoop to catch more air.Lockwood said the oil cooler is large enouth
to do the job.An oil thermostat is installed and
they said that would not effect the cooler.Sooo..I need help.
As a last resort, I could cut a hole in the front of the cowling
below the water cooler and mount it there. I am open to
suggestions...Anyone?
thanks..paul baker 601hd 210 hrs.on 912
Message 20
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| Subject: | another nosepiece tidbit |
do not archive
Back in '99 I acquired an Emhart air riveter. Needing to modify the nosepieces
I called ZAC.
They told me the exact carbide bur they use. I ordered it from Grainger, modified
the nosepieces, etc.
As offspring are prone to do, mine used the bur for some worthwhile (so he said)
project and doesn't have a clue where he lost it. I do not remember the bur
number....a call to Roger Dubbert at ZAC may get it.
Seems that I recall it being a "round-nose tree-shaped" bur; had a 3 or 4 digit
part number. The cost was about $15.
There may be some member of the List with a CNC lathe who could demonstrate his
abilities by volunteering to modify your nosepieces. A really advanced CNC setup
might even inscribe your
N-number in reverse....it would show up on every rivet you install. Hi, Larry!
Regards to all,
Zed
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Fw: nutplates |
Gig:
I buy such pop rivets from Spencer Aircraft in Puyallup, WA. Call them at
800-424-1160 and tell them what you need. You should be able to specify the
grip length you require. I can't make out the part no. from the information
in the catalog but they will know if you tell them the intended use (I buy
them off the shelf, in person).
Ask them for a catalog when you order. It has a lot of useful data. They
will accept credit cards and mail the rivets promptly. Spencer has been THE
place for homebuilders in the Seattle/ Puget Sound area for about the last
40 years and they are good people to do business with.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Fwd: Fw: nutplates
<wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>
> That is great info. The only problem is I can't find a 3/32 pop rivet with
a flat or countersunk head. All the ones I can locate are domed. Anyone have
a Wick's (or other) part number?
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145742#145742
>
>
> --
11/12/2007 12:56 PM
>
>
Message 22
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>That is great info. The only problem is I can't find a 3/32 pop rivet
with a flat
>or countersunk head. All the ones I can locate are domed. Anyone have a
Wick's
>(or other) part number?
Wicks numbers (catalogue is a few years old)
All from page 99:
AD32ABS dome head - cheap
Cherry CCR264SS3-2 and others in the series - countersunk
Cherry N CCP-32 and others in series - waaaay too expen$ive
Avery Tools has them also and are fine folks with which to do business.
You don't need a countersunk pop rivet. What you do need is a riveter
nose piece that is flat, not ground out. Even the domed heads will set
almost flat. I got most of my 3/32 rivets in the little packages you
find in the local auto supply superstore.
Don't have a flat nosepiece???take a .125 piece of aluminum, drill a
hole that is a loose fit for the mandrel, slip it over the mandrel and
pull away.
cheers jeff
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Van's vents in 601 HD?Van's vents in 601 HD? |
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Van's vents in 601 HD?Van's vents in 601 HD?
I installed the Van nasa inlets and vents in my601HD. that took care
of the cooling of me. But I have a problem cooling
my oil. I purchased the plane last fall and had a problem all
summer. The oil would sometimes get to 250 and that is not
good.The oil cooler is located at the bottom of the firewall and is
fed air through the nasa vent on the side. I even put
a scoop to catch more air.Lockwood said the oil cooler is large enouth
to do the job.An oil thermostat is installed and
they said that would not effect the cooler.Sooo..I need help.
As a last resort, I could cut a hole in the front of the cowling
below the water cooler and mount it there. I am open to
suggestions...Anyone?
thanks..paul baker 601hd 210 hrs.on 912
+++++++++++++++++++++
Is the outlet opening equal to or greater than the total inlet area?
If not the air could be stagnating inside the cowling.
R. Johnson
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: oil thermostat |
Hi,
Could you send some pictures of the installation? It would help
with the analysis.
As for now:
2. I would get rid of the oil thermostat. In my plane, there has never been
a problem with oil getting not warm enough (190 deg F+).
3. The added scoop may actually interfere with the NACA inlet. See my
webpage
http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/cowl_inlets.html
for a scoop that I installed to REDUCE cooling for slow flight,
but still get good cooling during high-power flight.
4. NACA inlets work only well when the airflow is essentially
in line with the horizontal axis of the inlet. This means that during
climb in hot weather, the angle of attack cannot be high. For
my plane, this means no climbing below 70 kts unless
the air is quite cold, say 60 deg or below.
5. Finally, can the air get out of the cowl? Look at the bottom
lip on the same picture showing the modified NACA inlet,
on the above web page. One way to test for this is by a
water gauge that measures pressure differential across
the oil cooler.
Hope this helps. Please write if you have questions.
Best wishes, happy flying,
Klaus
--
Klaus Truemper
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science
University of Texas at Dallas
Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and
Computer Science EC31
P.O. Box 830688
Richardson, TX 75083-0688
(972) 883-2712
klaus@utdallas.edu
www.utdallas.edu/~klaus
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: riveter nosepiece |
In my opinion this kind of advice in general can be disasterous to
aircraft. Well maybe not every time, but Zenith requires a certain
radius to properly seat the rivets to conform to the testing they have
done on the aircraft. Grinding to "just any conical shape" migh NOT be
so good. I bought mine from ZAC. If for no other reason the price is
fair and done by American Craftsman. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy L. Thwing
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: riveter nosepiece
From the archives: do not archive
The Dremel works fine and fast, use a small green round ball (silicon
carbide) or any other stone that has a point or round end, Put the
riviet
gun head in the lathe chuck and while spinning it, fire off the
moto-tool,
hold it with both hands braced against whatever is nearby, and shape
the end
in a nice conical shape, starting from the hole in the center and
working
outward, keep the cone shallow, you can always go deeper. No gottem
lathe?
Sure you do, put your fastest turning pistol grip drill motor in your
workbench vise, usually upside down with pistol grip up, (up is
towards the
sky for you airplane builders!) tighten vise enough to hold drill
case, not
crushing it where the armature will never turn again! Place the rivet
head
in the drill chuck and lock the trigger back and grind away. Takes
longer
to describe than to do, finish with emery cloth if your stones grind
course.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: BRIAN HOPE
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:43 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: rivet gun mods
>
> I have scoured the archives but can't find anything about modifying
rivet
> gun heads, though I seem to recall reading that a certain Dremel
cutter
> would do a satisfactory job.
> Has anybody carried out the mods themselves and if so could they
offer
some
> advice.
> Many thanks Brian Hope. Scratch building a 601 in lil'ol England,
home of
> the $5 per gallon Avgas !
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: riveter nosepiece
John
The advantage of the HF nosepieces is that they will fit the HF
riveter. I presume that Zenith nosepieces fit the riveter they sell. So,
if you have a HF riveter, you'd best use their nosepieces.
However, the nosepieces must be machined to form the flathead rivets
into ZAC's required dome shape. You can either send HF nosepieces (or
those from any other riveter) to ZAC to be machined for $8/ea (<1 week
turnaround), or you can machine them yourselves. If you search the
archives, you can probably find some info on doing your own machining.
You only need to machine the A4 and A5 nosepieces.
Terry
Message 26
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|
Aircraft spruce has countersunk rivets. If you want specific part numbers,
contact me off list
-brad cohen
>From: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>To: <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>, "zenith-list" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: 3/32 pop rivets
>Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:56:47 -0500
>
> >That is great info. The only problem is I can't find a 3/32 pop rivet
>with a flat
> >or countersunk head. All the ones I can locate are domed. Anyone have a
>Wick's
> >(or other) part number?
>
>Wicks numbers (catalogue is a few years old)
>
>All from page 99:
>
>AD32ABS dome head - cheap
>
>Cherry CCR264SS3-2 and others in the series - countersunk
>
>Cherry N CCP-32 and others in series - waaaay too expen$ive
>
>Avery Tools has them also and are fine folks with which to do business.
>
>You don't need a countersunk pop rivet. What you do need is a riveter nose
>piece that is flat, not ground out. Even the domed heads will set almost
>flat. I got most of my 3/32 rivets in the little packages you find in the
>local auto supply superstore.
>
>Don't have a flat nosepiece???take a .125 piece of aluminum, drill a hole
>that is a loose fit for the mandrel, slip it over the mandrel and pull
>away.
>
>cheers jeff
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Pegastol Wings |
Check out skyhawg dot com. He posted above.
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145831#145831
Message 28
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|
Yes, rivets this size are hard to find. Aircraft Spruce carries flush
Cherry Q rivets in the 3/32 inch size, but only in stainless Steel.
Expensive at $.22 each. Part number CCC-32.
Jeff D
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Fuel Senders and water |
John,
>From personal experience... I used water to leak test the tank and test the
fuel senders.. the problem: you will get erroneous readings on your ohm
meter while testing the sender unit... the water in the aluminum tank along
with the sender submerged distorts the meter resistance reading (depending
on the salt/other impurities in the water) - so you cannot accurately
determine the sender resistance at empty and full levels. I have no
knowledge of potential damage to the unit.
Also, do not forget another important test - put your fuel cap on while
draining the tank from the outlet to confirm that the cap is indeed venting
properly...
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Davis" <johnd@data-tech.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:45 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Fuel Senders and water
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I've seen a post on some forums that using water to test your fuel tanks
> will ruin the Zenith fuel senders (they didnt say why it would), and now
> I've seen a builder's website where he used water to test for leaks in his
> tanks and check the senders.
>
> So, will water damage the senders ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> John Davis
> Burnsville, NC
> 601XL - Jab 3300
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: riveter nosepiece |
Hello Bob: do not archive
>From your post:
"Zenith requires a certain radius"
Could you please furnish a link or reference to a Zenith source or
drawing where this radius is specified?
I don't mind anyone not agreeing with my point of view, but if you're
going to quote my posts, please quote accurately.
My message does not contain the phrase: "just any conical shape".
My Zenith construction manual shows a drawing depicting a conical
nosepiece with no radius or depth of radius specified, with only a
notation directed at the still flat edges of the nosepiece: "should not
damage parts!".
Best Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Unternaehrer
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: riveter nosepiece
In my opinion this kind of advice in general can be disasterous to
aircraft. Well maybe not every time, but Zenith requires a certain
radius to properly seat the rivets to conform to the testing they have
done on the aircraft. Grinding to "just any conical shape" migh NOT be
so good. I bought mine from ZAC. If for no other reason the price is
fair and done by American Craftsman. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy L. Thwing
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: riveter nosepiece
From the archives: do not archive
The Dremel works fine and fast, use a small green round ball
(silicon
carbide) or any other stone that has a point or round end, Put the
riviet
gun head in the lathe chuck and while spinning it, fire off the
moto-tool,
hold it with both hands braced against whatever is nearby, and shape
the end
in a nice conical shape, starting from the hole in the center and
working
outward, keep the cone shallow, you can always go deeper. No gottem
lathe?
Sure you do, put your fastest turning pistol grip drill motor in
your
workbench vise, usually upside down with pistol grip up, (up is
towards the
sky for you airplane builders!) tighten vise enough to hold drill
case, not
crushing it where the armature will never turn again! Place the
rivet head
in the drill chuck and lock the trigger back and grind away. Takes
longer
to describe than to do, finish with emery cloth if your stones grind
course.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: BRIAN HOPE
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:43 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: rivet gun mods
>
> I have scoured the archives but can't find anything about
modifying rivet
> gun heads, though I seem to recall reading that a certain Dremel
cutter
> would do a satisfactory job.
> Has anybody carried out the mods themselves and if so could they
offer
some
> advice.
> Many thanks Brian Hope. Scratch building a 601 in lil'ol England,
home of
> the $5 per gallon Avgas !
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: riveter nosepiece
John
The advantage of the HF nosepieces is that they will fit the HF
riveter. I presume that Zenith nosepieces fit the riveter they sell. So,
if you have a HF riveter, you'd best use their nosepieces.
However, the nosepieces must be machined to form the flathead
rivets into ZAC's required dome shape. You can either send HF nosepieces
(or those from any other riveter) to ZAC to be machined for $8/ea (<1
week turnaround), or you can machine them yourselves. If you search the
archives, you can probably find some info on doing your own machining.
You only need to machine the A4 and A5 nosepieces.
Terry
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
11/13/2007 11:09 AM
Message 31
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| Subject: | Progress - thanks to good old Dad! |
You just cant beat good old Dad. I met my Dad in Branson (the tackiest city in
the world) over the weekend so we could hang out. It was my birthday and he
had a set of flanging dyes made for me buy a local machinist. What a cool dad!
The other cool thing is that the machinist had a scale Cub hanging from the roof
of his shop that he built a long time ago. Small world.
Check out the picture.
John Hines
www.johnsplane.com
--------
John Hines
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145874#145874
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/flanging_dye2_706.jpg
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Pegastol Wings |
My Pegastol, Suzuki powered CH701 is finally done. I am waiting my flight authorization
to arrive (after a bit of a mixup). It will be faxed to me in a couple
of days. I expect to be airborne by Saturday, weather permitting. I will post
some real numbers as soon as I get them.
-- Ray
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145887#145887
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