---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/19/07: 48 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:34 AM - Waiting for flycorvair parts. Am I the only one? (Donnald Shimoto) 2. 02:43 AM - Roll over protection (Bob Unternaehrer) 3. 02:56 AM - Re: Re: of wrath and rants... (Bob Unternaehrer) 4. 04:04 AM - Re: Roll over protection (MacDonald Doug) 5. 04:28 AM - Re: Roll over protection (Bob Unternaehrer) 6. 05:46 AM - Taildragger (Brad Cohen) 7. 06:45 AM - Re: Taildragger (Bill Sewell) 8. 06:45 AM - Re: Intellectual Property and Airplane Parts. (n801bh@netzero.com) 9. 07:09 AM - Re: 601XL ELT position (Bryan Martin) 10. 07:35 AM - Re:Roll over protection (MaxNr@aol.com) 11. 07:51 AM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (kevinbonds) 12. 08:45 AM - Re: Intellectual Property and Airplane Parts. (Gig Giacona) 13. 09:47 AM - Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (DaveG601XL) 14. 10:03 AM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools () 15. 11:11 AM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Keith Ashcraft) 16. 11:23 AM - Cost of scratch build versus kit build (RaStacey) 17. 01:17 PM - Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build (MacDonald Doug) 18. 02:04 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Al Hays) 19. 02:12 PM - Dual in a 701 (george.mueller@aurora.org) 20. 03:28 PM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (NYTerminat@aol.com) 21. 04:06 PM - Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build (Art Olechowski) 22. 04:21 PM - Monday Night is Chat night (leinad) 23. 04:30 PM - Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build (leinad) 24. 04:38 PM - Tonights chat (MacDonald Doug) 25. 04:40 PM - Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build (John Bolding) 26. 04:59 PM - Re: Taildragger (Bob Unternaehrer) 27. 05:00 PM - Re: Taildragger (Bob Unternaehrer) 28. 05:00 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Bryan Martin) 29. 05:07 PM - Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build (Art Olechowski) 30. 05:19 PM - Re: Scam artist (Despraci) 31. 05:22 PM - Re: Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Art Olechowski) 32. 05:33 PM - Re: Dual in a 701 (NYTerminat@aol.com) 33. 06:06 PM - Rudder Nose Skin (Art Olechowski) 34. 06:11 PM - Ring engine mount 701 (Graeme) 35. 06:17 PM - Quick Question About 601XL Z-angles (dfmoeller) 36. 06:42 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (William Dominguez) 37. 07:51 PM - Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Ron Lendon) 38. 08:31 PM - Free forming sheet metal (Ron Lendon) 39. 08:39 PM - Re: Quick Question About 601XL Z-angles (Jeff) 40. 09:02 PM - Re: Re: Scam artist (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 41. 09:07 PM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 42. 09:19 PM - Re: Quick Question About 601XL Z-angles (mosquito56) 43. 09:32 PM - Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (mosquito56) 44. 09:32 PM - 701 Build time (Dan) 45. 09:36 PM - Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build (mosquito56) 46. 10:17 PM - Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build (TxDave) 47. 10:19 PM - Re: 701 Build time (John Marzulli) 48. 10:53 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Sean Moore) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:18 AM PST US From: Donnald Shimoto Subject: Zenith-List: Waiting for flycorvair parts. Am I the only one? _________________________________________________________________ You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i=92m Init iative now. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:34 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Zenith-List: Roll over protection <<>> I'm wondering why Zenith doesn't recognize this and put in "roll over protection? bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: dredmoody@cox.net To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:11 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL ELT position The main gear isn't likely to collapse..... bend, maybe but colapse? The ELT in that case isn't going to be very helpful, if you get my drift. What will collapse in an off-field landing (crash) is usually the nosegear. When it folds, the plane ususally noses over onto its back, hence the external antenna on the bottom would now be facing up. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:29 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: of wrath and rants... AMEN, and AMEN ----- Original Message ----- From: RClaggf4u To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:26 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: of wrath and rants... I'm going to make this short and sweet, I know what I signed when I sent my buyer agreement in. Even if I hadn't signed an agreement I wouldn't be so low as to make money off the sweat of others. I drove 1400 miles in a three day period to visit the Zenith factory. After visiting with them I have a much greater appreciation for the folks there. They are feeding their families out of that factory. I scratchbuilt my 701 because I didn't have the money to buy the kit but when I needed something I turned to them first. Nothing I ordered took more than TWO working days to get. With that said, I have been asked all month for a donation to support this list. In 13 months of building I have been helped ONE time but still enjoyed reading some of the posts. But I will no longer pay to read this crap. I'll be over on the Yahoo group until this B.S. starts there. Matt, I hate it for you as I know you mean well and it is a lot of work but I can't pay to support this. Man, what is the world coming to? Wayne In a message dated 11/18/07 13:17:30 Eastern Standard Time, wr.giacona@suddenlink.net writes: >From the buyer agreement that was signed when I bought my plans. 2. This contract permits the buyer to build one (1) airplane (or part of it) for recreational and educational purposes only. The type of aircraft and the Drawings serial number must be visibly marked on the vertical tail or fuselage sides of the aircraft. The buyer is advised that the Drawings, Manuals, and/or parts contain proprietary rights. The buyer covenants and agrees that he will not: a) Reproduce, b) Communicate, c) Transfer, sell, exchange or modify them or any part of them, d) Permit any other person to use said drawings, manual, and/or parts, without the written permission of the Company. The sole purpose of the plans, drawings, manuals, and parts is strictly educational and there is no implied or expressed warranty. During the construction the buyer is to cause the structure and installations to be inspected and approved by the relevant government and/or aviation authority (FAA) prior to registration in the Custom-Built, Experimental, Ultralight, etc. category. The Buyer agrees to notify the Company in writing immediately of the sale of any Drawings and Manuals, parts, components, or kit, whether completed or not, supplying the complete name and address of the new owner(s). -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146911#146911 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:27 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll over protection Bob, Several 601s have nosed over through the years. Typically the rudder supports the plane while upside down. Mark had a pic on ch-601.org of a plane flipped in a windstorm being supported by the rudder and there was a news story recently about a forced lading in a field that the rudder held up well too. As for the 701/801, well they have the wings overhead so that should be adaqaute. Hope this clarifies things a bit but this statement might still get another long term debate started. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada Do not archive --- Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > << its back,>>> > > I'm wondering why Zenith doesn't recognize this and > put in "roll over protection? > > bob U. > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:49 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll over protection ONE point of view, I just don't want to risk my life on that flemsy little rudder. In their defense there are a lot of other low wingers that don't have sufficient ROPS, but I don't have to fly one either without a ROPS. I'm not even sure if you could get out even if the rudder should support the plane. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: MacDonald Doug To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 6:03 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll over protection Bob, Several 601s have nosed over through the years. Typically the rudder supports the plane while upside down. Mark had a pic on ch-601.org of a plane flipped in a windstorm being supported by the rudder and there was a news story recently about a forced lading in a field that the rudder held up well too. As for the 701/801, well they have the wings overhead so that should be adaqaute. Hope this clarifies things a bit but this statement might still get another long term debate started. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada Do not archive --- Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > << its back,>>> > > I'm wondering why Zenith doesn't recognize this and > put in "roll over protection? > > bob U. > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:19 AM PST US From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: Zenith-List: Taildragger I was just getting started on the rear fuselage when a cold chill ran down my spine, I realized that the blueprints I was folliowing were for the tricycle version. A quick check revealed that I didn't receive the TD blueprint page with the parts shipment. Thankfully I have not progressed too far. (just now installing the bottom skin l-angles.) How soon do I need to start considering the taildragger specific changes? the photo guide is really not too clear on when to make the changes. I am also replacing all the A4's with A5's in the rear fuselage. Any other suggestions? -Brad Cohen XL/TD ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:29 AM PST US From: "Bill Sewell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger Brad, As I remember, the only change on the bottom rear fuselage assembly had to do with the lower rudder hinge plate. You don't drill the center hole for the rear tie down eye bolt. The more significant changes start when you begin work on the forward fuselage floor. Take a look at my web site for some pictures. http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/082804.htm http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/090204.htm http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Cabin_Floor/092904a.htm Bill Sewell N601BZ On 11/19/07, Brad Cohen wrote: > > > I was just getting started on the rear fuselage when a cold chill ran down > my spine, I realized that the blueprints I was folliowing were for the > tricycle version. A quick check revealed that I didn't receive the TD > blueprint page with the parts shipment. > > Thankfully I have not progressed too far. (just now installing the bottom > skin l-angles.) How soon do I need to start considering the taildragger > specific changes? the photo guide is really not too clear on when to make > the changes. > > I am also replacing all the A4's with A5's in the rear fuselage. Any other > suggestions? > > -Brad Cohen > XL/TD > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:33 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Intellectual Property and Airplane Parts. Well, that certainly leaves the Savannah in a VERY gray area in terms of knocking off the Zenith 701.... do not archive. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- JohnDRead@aol.com wrote: There is another class of patent and that is patents of design. These pa tents are granted for the "look" of a product so I believe that if one w ere to copy any part of a Zenith design it is possible that there is inf ringement. Just my opinion as a retired engineer with several of these t ypes of patent. John Read Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:02 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL ELT position I have my ELT antenna mounted to the gusset at the front corner of the baggage shelf with the antenna whip curving around just behind the passenger seat under the canopy. That way I figure, if the cabin survives the crash, so will the ELT antenna. If I'm not badly injured in the crash, I can always take the ELT out and attach the telescoping antenna and set it up on higher ground or somewhere it will have a better chance of being received. MacDonald Doug wrote: > > Leo, I'm no expert so take this for what is worth. > > BUT... isn't the ELT antenna supposed to go on the top > side of the fuselage so that it can broadcast in the > event of a crash. Being on the bottom of the fuse, > would it not get knocked off in the event of a crash > that collapses the gear? > > Doug MacDonald > CH-701 Scratch Builder > NW Ontario, Canada > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:08 AM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Roll over protection Bob, I share your concern. Its folly to trust yours and your loved one's lives to a couple of rudder hinges that were never intended to be "roll over protection." I am sketching out some (possibly futile) ideas for a 1" 4130 structure that I hope I can attach to structure at the bottom of my project. Slow going so far as I'm not an engineer. That does not take away from the importance. I have witnessed two nose overs in my lifetime. One a Cub and one a sailplane. No injuries because they happened in slow motion. However, an airshow pilot that I respected was killed a few years ago in a nose over because the roll over structure had been remove shortly before the accident. My tractor has a R. O. P. because its mandated. Bob Dingley, Pace FL XL ,Starting on wings Do not archive ************************************** See what's new at ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:51 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools The Olpha knife has a sort of hooked blade. It is actually meant for scoring plexiglass. You can actually find this sort of thing at Home Depot or anywhere they sell plexiglass. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Plans building. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Unternaehrer Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools Is an OLPHA knife simply a "razor blade knife" or some special kind razor blade knife or something else. I use a shear for mine but have used razor blade knifes for hose siding work. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Art Olechowski Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 3:58 PM Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools Thanks Jean-Paul I will do so. Art --- Jean-Paul Roy wrote: > Art, take a look at the DVD from Homebuilthelp dot com about scratch building. The scene is made > by David Barth (if I recall) about cutting with an Olpha knife using a strait edge. > > Hope this helps > > Jean-Paul Roy > > > > > > > > > Jean-Paul Roy > royjp@yahoo.ca > T=E9l: (819)949-2216 > Cell:(819)629-9360 > > --------------------------------- > Pour No=EBl, offrez un compte Flickr Pro =E0 vos amis et =E0 votre famille. nbsp; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link Free href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Chat, --> http://www.matron=================== === bsp; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:39 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Intellectual Property and Airplane Parts. From: "Gig Giacona" In the case of Zenith it is the copyright law and contract law that is in play. If you have a set of plans from Zenith you signed a contract. If you have a set from somewhere else there is probably a copyright violation and/or contract violation somewhere in the mix. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147116#147116 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend From: "DaveG601XL" Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installation is performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_32_162.jpg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:13 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole lo t less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives.=0A=0APaul Rod riguez=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A From: Al Hays =0A To: zenith-list@matronics.c om =0A Sent: Sunday, November 18 , 2007 7:58 PM=0A Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuildi >=0A=0A Bob,=0A=0A I found it online at OLFABLADES.CO M and got extra blades and another =0A knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is listed as =0A a heavy-duty plast ic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price of =0A $8.48. Their m inimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be about $8 =0A for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to drive =0A to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps. =0A=0A Al=0A=0A On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehr er wrote:=0A=0A > I know the number. just wondering what it was Our country hardware =0A > store doesn't have one.=0A >> --- -- Original Message -----=0A >> From: Carlos Sa=0A >> To: zeni th-list@matronics.com=0A >> Sent : Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM=0A >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Ze nith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools=0A >>=0A >> Bob, it is the OL FA P-800. You can find it it most hardware stores.=0A >>=0A >> ======================= ======================= ======================= ======================= = --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools Here is a picture of the type of "Scoring" blade I use. You can get it at H ome Depot, but... in the carpet department, is where I found it. The pictur e is of the Bottom Skin CH701, 0.016". I like to score at least 1/2 x thick ness of material. Example for the 0.016" I would score it at least 8 times, maybe 9 times. At least try to score about halfway through. You will find that you remove about 1-2 mills of material every pass of the blade. It sho uld curl up and almost look like a little ball-point spring. (At least mine do) http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewPhoto?uname=ch701builder&aid=5125349 983326967585&iid=5125354050660998706 Keith CH701 - scratch - working on rear fuselage *************************************************************************** ************************************** kevinbonds wrote: The Olpha knife has a sort of hooked blade. It is actually meant for scorin g plexiglass. You can actually find this sort of thing at Home Depot or any where they sell plexiglass. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Plans building. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds ________________________________ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Unternaehrer Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools Is an OLPHA knife simply a "razor blade knife" or some special kind razor b lade knife or something else. I use a shear for mine but have used razor b lade knifes for hose siding work. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Art Olechowski Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 3:58 PM Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools mailto:ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>> Thanks Jean-Paul I will do so. Art --- Jean-Paul Roy > wrote: > Art, take a look at the DVD from Homebuilthelp dot com about scratch buil ding. The scene is made > by David Barth (if I recall) about cutting with an Olpha knife using a st rait edge. > > Hope this helps > > Jean-Paul Roy > > > Jean-Paul Roy > royjp@yahoo.ca > T?l: (819)949-2216 > Cell:(819)629-9360 > > --------------------------------- > Pour No?l, offrez un compte Flickr Pro ? vos amis et ? votre famille. nbs p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link Fr ee href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Chat, --> http://w ww.matron====================== bsp; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matro nics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are in tended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addr essed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporati on. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the pres ence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any viru s transmitted by this e-mail. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:52 AM PST US From: "RaStacey" Subject: Zenith-List: Cost of scratch build versus kit build I was wondering what it would cost in materials to scratch build a 701 versus buying a kit at $13k. Where is the best place to purchase materials. I live in Newfoundland Canada with no supply companies in the province. Thanks Robert Stacey ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:38 PM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cost of scratch build versus kit build Hi Robert, welcome to the group. You have asked a very involved question. The finished price of a kit built plane is hard to compair to the finished price of a scratch built plane because the scratch builder tends to add spend more in some area and save money in others. It is safe to say though that you will save some money. I am also from Canada but have the advantage of living right on the Can/US border. I arranged to have my metals orders shipped to the town on the US side of the line and then I go pick it up. Most of my parts so far have come from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. They do have a distributor in Canada but I have personally never ordered from them. Hope this helps a bit Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada --- RaStacey wrote: > I was wondering what it would cost in materials to > scratch build a 701 versus buying a kit at $13k. > Where is the best place to purchase materials. I > live in Newfoundland Canada with no supply companies > in the province. > > Thanks Robert Stacey Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:37 PM PST US From: Al Hays Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools Paul, No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either last time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility knives which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace Hardware would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its good that you and others in your area can take advantage of that. Al On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM, wrote: > $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole > lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives. > > Paul Rodriguez >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Al Hays >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools >> >> >> >> Bob, >> >> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and another >> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is listed as >> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price of >> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be about >> $8 >> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to drive >> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps. >> >> Al >> >> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote: >> >> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country hardware >> > store doesn't have one. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Carlos Sa >> >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM >> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools >> >> >> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware stores. >> >>==============================================p; -- Please >> Support Your Lists This Mitle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// >> Browse, Chat, >> FAQ,http:// >> www.m==============================================nbsp; - >> MATRONICS WEB FORUom/ >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// >> forums.matroni========================================= >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:51 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Dual in a 701 From: george.mueller@aurora.org I am basically finished with my 701 and my insurance company says I need an hour of dual in a 701 before the first flight. Does anyone know of anybody instructing in a 701? George in Milwaukee ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:42 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend Dave, was Mister sock there too???? In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes: Jon Croke was also there filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:32 PM PST US From: Art Olechowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cost of scratch build versus kit build Robert, I think most will agree the 701 airfarme can be completed for 1/2 to 2/3 of the kit cost. Art --- RaStacey wrote: > I was wondering what it would cost in materials to scratch build a 701 versus buying a kit at > $13k. Where is the best place to purchase materials. I live in Newfoundland Canada with no > supply companies in the province. > > Thanks Robert Stacey ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:23 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Monday Night is Chat night From: "leinad" http://sudbury.iahu.ca:8000/chat/ B_there || B*B 8:00 PM EST Dempsey601XL -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147235#147235 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:05 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build From: "leinad" Robert, As a plans builder of a 601 I can tell you it will cost a lot more time than the kit. Not only does it take time to make the parts, but takes lots of time to locate and purchase the materials. I can probably double the building time of a standard kit. Dan Dempsey [quote="ablebob"]I was wondering what it would cost in materials to scratch build a 701 versus buying a kit at $13k. Where is the best place to purchase materials. I live in Newfoundland Canada with no supply companies in the province. Thanks Robert Stacey > [b] -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147236#147236 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:40 PM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Zenith-List: Tonights chat Hey guys, can someone get me the link to tonight's Zenith Chat, I'm on my work laptop and don't have the link saved. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch builder NW Ontaio, Canada Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:10 PM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cost of scratch build versus kit build Mine will come in at less than 1/2 LOW&SLO John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Art Olechowski" Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 6:05 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cost of scratch build versus kit build > > > Robert, > I think most will agree the 701 airfarme can be completed for 1/2 to 2/3 > of the kit cost. > > > Art > --- RaStacey wrote: > >> I was wondering what it would cost in materials to scratch build a 701 >> versus buying a kit at >> $13k. Where is the best place to purchase materials. I live in >> Newfoundland Canada with no >> supply companies in the province. >> >> Thanks Robert Stacey > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:58 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger There doesn't seem to be any photo guide for the taildragger version and there are 3 pages of modifications that I paid $40 for. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad Cohen To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:44 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Taildragger I was just getting started on the rear fuselage when a cold chill ran down my spine, I realized that the blueprints I was folliowing were for the tricycle version. A quick check revealed that I didn't receive the TD blueprint page with the parts shipment. Thankfully I have not progressed too far. (just now installing the bottom skin l-angles.) How soon do I need to start considering the taildragger specific changes? the photo guide is really not too clear on when to make the changes. I am also replacing all the A4's with A5's in the rear fuselage. Any other suggestions? -Brad Cohen XL/TD ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:00 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger My plans built fuselage I bought has the tie down ring already installed. i haven't started on the taildragger mods yet or studied the drawings. Wonder if I've got a lot to change. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Sewell To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:44 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger Brad, As I remember, the only change on the bottom rear fuselage assembly had to do with the lower rudder hinge plate. You don't drill the center hole for the rear tie down eye bolt. The more significant changes start when you begin work on the forward fuselage floor. Take a look at my web site for some pictures. http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/082804.htm http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/090204.htm http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Cabin_Floor/092904a.htm Bill Sewell N601BZ On 11/19/07, Brad Cohen wrote: I was just getting started on the rear fuselage when a cold chill ran down my spine, I realized that the blueprints I was folliowing were for the tricycle version. A quick check revealed that I didn't receive the TD blueprint page with the parts shipment. Thankfully I have not progressed too far. (just now installing the bottom skin l-angles.) How soon do I need to start considering the taildragger specific changes? the photo guide is really not too clear on when to make ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:04 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools A Stanley utility knife works very well also. Just score the metal along a straight line and snap it off over a sharp corner. Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country hardware > store doesn't have one. > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:47 PM PST US From: Art Olechowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cost of scratch build versus kit build Thats great to here, the real answer is really dependent on many variables but this is a good generic figure for most. Art --- John Bolding wrote: > > Mine will come in at less than 1/2 LOW&SLO John > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Art Olechowski" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 6:05 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cost of scratch build versus kit build > > > > > > > > Robert, > > I think most will agree the 701 airfarme can be completed for 1/2 to 2/3 > > of the kit cost. > > > > > > Art > > --- RaStacey wrote: > > > >> I was wondering what it would cost in materials to scratch build a 701 > >> versus buying a kit at > >> $13k. Where is the best place to purchase materials. I live in > >> Newfoundland Canada with no > >> supply companies in the province. > >> > >> Thanks Robert Stacey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:15 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Scam artist From: "Despraci" Just for everybody's information. I also placed an order with Tom. It also has been delayed for a considerable amount of time. I did make an effort to try and get in direct contact with him and verify that he does indeed exist. Since I don't live anywhere close to Oregon I had to enlist the help of the local police department. I can assure anybody that has an order in with Mr Henderson, he did not take your money and run. I probably went a little overboard. But after 2 months of very little contact I was getting worried myself, not only for myself, but the account holder whom I wired the money too. An officer stopped by his residence and confirmed that he is working on the order unfortunately got behind due to an illness in his family. The parts I did get from Tom before things got delayed do look good and as described. I am sure that the rest will look just the same. He seems to take pride in his work. I definitely think he needs to work on the communication a little more, but I think in time he could prove himself as a quality provider and alternative source for parts. And I'm still willing to give him the chance to make everything right. I know other leading authorities in this experimental industry that take some times twice as long to send parts, and yet are still looked upon as the only acceptable supplier. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147262#147262 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:38 PM PST US From: Art Olechowski Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Scratchbuilding Tools Thanks to all that have replied to my question about how to make some long straight cuts of aluminum. I had no idea of what an P-800 Olfa knife was until this list (we used hyd shears in school). Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I will be getting that DVD too Mark. do not archive Art --- ZodieRocket wrote: > Art, not to be forward, but you are starting on a great adventure by > scratch building your plane. In this you will have a lot of learning, > most people who start this say great things about HYPERLINK > "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"www.homebuilthelp.com 's DVD HYPERLINK > "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/Scratch.htm"Scratch Building Basics for > Metal Aircraft > > HYPERLINK "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/Scratch.htm" I would like to > suggest that you pick this one up, it will show you how to use the Olfa > knife and many other questions you will have along the way. The > unfortunate part is the two guys doing the DVD are in no way actors and > you will be faced with having to watch them for 3 hours. Nevertheless, > you will learn a lot in a short time. In fact I would guarantee that if > you did not learn anything I will cover the cost of the DVD personally. > > Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario > Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started > HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK > "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK > "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Art > Olechowski > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:43 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Scratchbuilding Tools > > > > I've considered someone with a shear cutting it as well and this is > definitely an option. > I think I will start with the Olfa knife and go from there. > Thanks for your input. > > do not archive > Art > --- Bryan Ekholm wrote: > > > > > > It's probably too late for you to do this, but I had the aluminum > supply shop shear my wing spar > > webs, the flaperon pieces, and slat parts to the exact dimension from > the 12' sheet. They > > charged $5 per cut. The Olfa knife works well too. > > > > Bryan Ekholm > > > > -------- > > Bryan Ekholm > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146651#146651 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11/16/2007 10:58 PM > > > 11/16/2007 10:58 PM > > >
________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:18 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dual in a 701 George, Speak with Roger at Zenith, he can get you time in the plane that will satisfy your insurance co. In a message dated 11/19/2007 5:15:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, george.mueller@aurora.org writes: I am basically finished with my 701 and my insurance company says I need an hour of dual in a 701 before the first flight. Does anyone know of anybody instructing in a 701? George in Milwaukee (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:14 PM PST US From: Art Olechowski Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled the holes through spar and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of the skin. But when I overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both nose ribs contain about a 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges. Have any of you experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations? Thanks, Art 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:38 PM PST US From: "Graeme" Subject: Zenith-List: Ring engine mount 701 I have just purchased the latest 701 plans I thought the ring mount plans would be includes. Unfortunatly Zenith has no plans for ring mount . Has anyone drawn a plan for ring mount, I have a std mount 912 and have some vibration. when I build my new plane I want ring mount, Graemecns ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Quick Question About 601XL Z-angles From: "dfmoeller" I'm placing an order for some parts from Zenith and realized, there seems to be a discrepancy (or I'm looking in the wrong place). Page 6B1 lists 6 pieces of Z-angle required. For the life of me, I can't see where more than 4 pieces are required (around the bottom hatch). Where else is this stuff used? Someone straighten this confused soul out, please. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147289#147289 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:18 PM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools Check in art/craft supply stores. None of my local hardware stores carry the Olfa P-800 but most of the craft stores do. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida Paul, No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either last time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility knives which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace Hardware would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its good that you and others in your area can take advantage of that. Al On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM, wrote: > $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole > lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives. > > Paul Rodriguez >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Al Hays >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools >> >> >> >> Bob, >> >> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and another >> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is listed as >> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price of >> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be about >> $8 >> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to drive >> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps. >> >> Al >> >> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote: >> >> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country hardware >> > store doesn't have one. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Carlos Sa >> >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM >> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools >> >> >> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware stores. >> >>==============================================p; -- Please >> Support Your Lists This Mitle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// >> Browse, Chat, >> FAQ,http:// >> www.m==============================================nbsp; - >> MATRONICS WEB FORUom/ >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// >> forums.matroni========================================= >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:06 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Scratchbuilding Tools From: "Ron Lendon" I have to agree with all, the Olfa knife and a shear cut edge is the best straight line cut. I will make a page of the tools on my kit log site. Here is a view of one of the setups but I forgot to take a picture of the actual cutting process. http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=0&log=21003&row=288 You will see that though in the Home Built videos. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147325#147325 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:38 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Free forming sheet metal From: "Ron Lendon" A friend asked if I could make a scoop to replace the one on his 1946 Fairchild. I used a shot bag, english wheel, planishing hammer and various hammers to shape a flat piece of .040 6061-T6. Here is a link to some pictures of the first attempt. http://picasaweb.google.com/ron.lendon/FoxFairchild Do not archive -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147336#147336 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:38 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Quick Question About 601XL Z-angles Doug, I think you are talking about the Standard L angles. If so, I found that I needed some for things not in my 601 HD plans like the separate structure required to mount my 406 ELT, a center console, to line the access panels, to double the aileron horn, and miscellaneous added structures. While the price of a four foot piece seems quite expensive, I'm glad I had extra around. Jeff Davidson Page 6B1 lists 6 pieces of Z-angle required. For the life of me, I can't see where more than 4 pieces are required (around the bottom hatch). Where else is this stuff used? ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:02 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Scam artist Well I can tell you now that the local police won't do anything first of all but after contacting the internet fraud department they sure were interested. I have a long list of people that have been ripped of by this scum bag and Tom should know the wheels are in motion and it is just a matter of time. And Tom because I know you read this list this is for you.... I invite your law suite for slander, I don't make idol threats I do what I say. I also don't give this story much credit since you didn't sign your name to it and I know for a fact to many others have been ripped off to believe you are the one person that got your parts. I would also like to apologize to the list for this rant but if other builders weren't being ripped off I wouldn't post it here. If you don't think it should be here just delete it when you see it but I now know from talking to others it does have a place here like it or not. Jeff In a message dated 11/19/2007 8:20:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, desperado97@yahoo.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Despraci" Just for everybody's information. I also placed an order with Tom. It also has been delayed for a considerable amount of time. I did make an effort to try and get in direct contact with him and verify that he does indeed exist. Since I don't live anywhere close to Oregon I had to enlist the help of the local police department. I can assure anybody that has an order in with Mr Henderson, he did not take your money and run. I probably went a little overboard. But after 2 months of very little contact I was getting worried myself, not only for myself, but the account holder whom I wired the money too. An officer stopped by his residence and confirmed that he is working on the order unfortunately got behind due to an illness in his family. The parts I did get from Tom before things got delayed do look good and as described. I am sure that the rest will look just the same. He seems to take pride in his work. I definitely think he needs to work on the communication a little more, but I think in time he could prove himself as a quality provider and alternative source for parts. And I'm still willing to give him the chance to make everything right. I know other leading authorities in this experimental industry that take some times twice as long to send parts, and yet are still looked upon as the only acceptable supplier. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147262#147262 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:59 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar. Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems, I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances are from one cylinder to the next. Jeff In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installation is performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well ! as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_32_162.jpg ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Quick Question About 601XL Z-angles From: "mosquito56" I got burned on this was last week. Look at the rear bottom fuse. The angle in front of the door is z angle, rear spar support and then another z angle. The z angles are part number 6bx-1, I don't have my plans here but I put L angle and had to drill them out and replace with z's. The plans are flakey here so be careful. They look like L's but are Z's. The second row down in 6b3-1 on the builders updates show the door. Look to the right and you can just make out that that piece is a Z and NOT an L. Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147345#147345 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:19 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Scratchbuilding Tools From: "mosquito56" I also got the idea of the OLFA knife from that great set of DVD from How to videos. I bought 5 and was only disappointed by one. The comparison engine is not very well done by the vw or sabaru people. Very little info on h.p. cost. how to get info etc. Back to the olfa. Neither Home Depot or Lowes carry them. I bought one that looked similar from Home Depot. Don't bother getting one it was useless for cutting aluminium. I finally found some from a site called shopWorldkitchen.ca. This was 2 weeks ago. I called today Mon(19 Nov 07) and gave them my credit info for the THIRD time. She called me back and said I would have the knives on Wed. We shall See. If I don't get the knives by Monday after Thanksgiving I will be looking for another supplier. I will notify Mon if they don't come and Wed if they do. Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147349#147349 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:19 PM PST US From: Dan Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Build time My total build time from start to airworthiness certificate was 1200 hours. This includes the firewall forward with the new Zenith 912S package. My empty weight with VFR steam gauges was 586 lbs. I also need to find a 701 that I can get some dual time in before I move mine to the airport for its test flights. Dan Wilde ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:06 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build From: "mosquito56" I read somewhere where the guy said it was better to get a job at Mc Donalds and save the money to buy the kit. This infered that your per hour savings will be less then minimum wage. I still plan to build my next plane from scratch as I don't like flipping burgers very much. For what you paid for it, I hop this was valuable. Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147351#147351 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:43 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build From: "TxDave" If you can find a local supplier for your aluminum you can save even more money. I'm fortunate to have a Trident Metals one hour away. I purchased two 4X12 sheets of .025 last week for $60 each with no shipping charges. Aircraft Spruce currently charges $108 per sheet plus shipping. Scratch building does take more time, for sure, but its a heck of a lot cheaper. Its also a pretty nice feeling to be able to say "I made every part by hand". Having said that...a kit would be my preference if money were not a factor. Dave Clay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147355#147355 ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:06 PM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Build time Thanks for the info. Do you have a breakdown of the time? Thanks, On Nov 19, 2007 9:30 PM, Dan wrote: > > My total build time from start to airworthiness certificate was 1200 > hours. This includes the firewall forward with the new Zenith 912S > package. My empty weight with VFR steam gauges was 586 lbs. I also > need to find a 701 that I can get some dual time in before I move mine > to the airport for its test flights. > > Dan Wilde > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:14 PM PST US From: "Sean Moore" Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools The olfa knife linked and the Home Despot brand shown are known as "laminate knives" to me. They are used for formica brand and similar counter tops. Odd that it would be in the carpet section as a carpet installer has absolutely no use for it. Silly Home Despot. Moral: Just because it's not where it should be doesn't mean they don't sell it. I find carpet/resilient trowels in the ceramic tile section all the time. On Nov 19, 2007 7:41 PM, William Dominguez wrote: > Check in art/craft supply stores. None of my local hardware stores carry the > Olfa P-800 but most of the craft stores do. > > William Dominguez > Zodiac 601XL Plans > Miami Florida > > Al Hays wrote: > > > Paul, > > No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware > stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either last > time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility knives > which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any > quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace Hardware > would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its good > that you and others in your area can take advantage of that. > Al > > On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM, wrote: > > > $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole > > lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives. > > > > Paul Rodriguez > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Al Hays > >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM > >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > >> > >> > >> > >> Bob, > >> > >> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and another > >> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is listed as > >> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price of > >> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be about > >> $8 > >> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to drive > >> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps. > >> > >> Al > >> > >> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > >> > >> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country hardware > >> > store doesn't have one. > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: Carlos Sa > >> >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > >> >> > >> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware stores. > >> >>==============================================p; -- > > -- Sean Moore moore.sean@gmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.