Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:11 AM - Re: Elevator Control Friction (Malcolm Hunt)
2. 05:14 AM - Re: Elevator Control Friction (Dave Johnson)
3. 05:24 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Bob Unternaehrer)
4. 05:33 AM - Re: Elevator Control Friction (countzero)
5. 05:38 AM - Glass Panels (Jaybannist@cs.com)
6. 05:40 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Bob Unternaehrer)
7. 05:51 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
8. 05:52 AM - Re: Glass Panels (dj45)
9. 06:23 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (ZodieRocket)
10. 06:40 AM - Re: Glass Panels (Gig Giacona)
11. 06:44 AM - Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Gig Giacona)
12. 06:44 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Paul Mulwitz)
13. 07:07 AM - Re: Taildragger (Bob Unternaehrer)
14. 07:29 AM - Re: Elevator Control Friction (swater6)
15. 07:41 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Pete Krotje)
16. 08:10 AM - Tom Henderson (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
17. 08:17 AM - Glass Panels and back-ups (Edward Moody II)
18. 08:37 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
19. 08:48 AM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (GLENN JOHNSON)
20. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Control Friction (Clive Richards)
21. 09:04 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Dave Austin)
22. 09:24 AM - Re: Roll over protection (Terry Phillips)
23. 09:48 AM - Replace aileron control cables with prush rods. (Gig Giacona)
24. 10:38 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (T. Graziano)
25. 10:48 AM - Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods. (Jaybannist@cs.com)
26. 10:50 AM - What is an LRI? (JohnDRead@aol.com)
27. 11:40 AM - Re: What is an LRI? (Tim Juhl)
28. 12:01 PM - Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods. (William Dominguez)
29. 12:23 PM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Gary Gower)
30. 02:03 PM - Re: What is an LRI? (Debo Cox)
31. 02:21 PM - Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods. (LarryMcFarland)
32. 04:41 PM - Re: Glass Panels (Juan Vega)
33. 08:38 PM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Art Olechowski)
34. 08:49 PM - Re:Replace aileron control cables with push rods. (MaxNr@aol.com)
35. 08:56 PM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Art Olechowski)
36. 09:35 PM - Re:Glass Panels (MaxNr@aol.com)
37. 10:50 PM - Re: Re: Cargo Tie down rings (raymondj)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Control Friction |
Rob
I asked the question of PFA Engineering and they said they would endeavour
to find out from the mod application (that was about six months ago) but
they did say that they thought .063" would be ok! I have made mine out of
this material but used a .125" bend radius, which worked for me.
I think the mod is a standard mod, not mandatory or have you found out
otherwise?
If I can find the PFA e-mail to me I will send it direct to you.
Kind regards
Malcolm Hunt
CH601XL plans builder in England
----- Original Message -----
From: "countzero" <robyboy@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Elevator Control Friction
>
> UK built XLs have a mandatory modification to replace the existing
> fairlead on the fuselage frame with a pulley wheel mounted on fabricated
> brackets to reduce the friction in the elevator control circuit.
>
> Just a question for UK builders; can anyone tell me the thickness of the
> sheet I should use or you used for the brackets?
>
> Rob
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147445#147445
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Control Friction |
This is a 'standard mod' - not a mandatory one.
Details can be found on the PFA website at
http://www.pfa.org.uk/Standard%20Mods/162_SM10366.pdf
Dave Johnson
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Hunt" <malcolmhunt@mha1.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Elevator Control Friction
> <malcolmhunt@mha1.fsbusiness.co.uk>
>
> Rob
>
> I asked the question of PFA Engineering and they said they would endeavour
> to find out from the mod application (that was about six months ago) but
> they did say that they thought .063" would be ok! I have made mine out of
> this material but used a .125" bend radius, which worked for me.
>
> I think the mod is a standard mod, not mandatory or have you found out
> otherwise?
>
> If I can find the PFA e-mail to me I will send it direct to you.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Malcolm Hunt
> CH601XL plans builder in England
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "countzero" <robyboy@hotmail.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 1:39 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Elevator Control Friction
>
>
>>
>> UK built XLs have a mandatory modification to replace the existing
>> fairlead on the fuselage frame with a pulley wheel mounted on fabricated
>> brackets to reduce the friction in the elevator control circuit.
>>
>> Just a question for UK builders; can anyone tell me the thickness of the
>> sheet I should use or you used for the brackets?
>>
>> Rob
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
Here's one of those "I haven't done that exactly" replies. There seem
to be a whole lot of differences in Jabaru installations concerning "how
hot they run". I've found that is the case with most aircooled engines.
Some "experimenters" just don't understand the critical nature of the
differentual pressure required to cool and air cooled engine. The
smallest changes can have large effects on that differential pressure
and the resulting cooling of the engine. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: steve
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid
Flyer with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I
never could get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in
the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and
let her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes.
I guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the
wrong location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the
flange..... CHTs are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is
doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating
problems, I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle
problem. My friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this
but I told him I want to tare down the complete engine and check to see
how close the tolerances are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes:
<david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this
past weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and
got to meet some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar
leaders, Pete Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as
well as Don Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke
was also there filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this
topic. One of the things I was interested in seeing was the dual
throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall design requires some slight
modifications in the way the cross-rod installation is performed on the
top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the front shelf
L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates from
Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web
site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the
class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find
you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y -->
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Control Friction |
You are correct it is not mandatory. The TAD has a special inspection point noted
about 'Elimination of undue friction in elevator controls' I don't think there's
another way to do it.
Rob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147672#147672
Message 5
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To all of you contemplating glass panels:
My panel and wiring is complete. Almost. When I powered it up, the Dynon EMS-D10
would not light up. I disconnected the 37-pin connector and found that the
two wires that provide power to the unit do not have continuity between the connector
pins and the ends of the wires. This is part of an assembled cable from
Dynon. I had checked all the connectors that I made, but failed to check this
pre-wired cable.
Now I have this cable that is bundled with all the other "spaghetti" behind the
panel and I will either have to replace the cable or try to repair the connector
in-place. Neither is an appealing option.
Moral: Test ALL the cables for continuity BEFORE you install them, even factory
supplied cables.
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
>From my experience and others, I sure would listen to Pete rather than
trying to re-envent the wheel. He's the best on the Jab. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
He added the lip to the lower cowling but it did very little. He also
has the Cowling from zenith for the Jab. I haven't seen it but it is
coming my way on a trailer so I can try and fix it or replace it with a
corvair. And I disagree with Pete, baffling isn't rocket science there
are thousands of planes out their flying and most of the builders never
made baffling before and they don't have this problem, I want to tare
down the engine and check the tolerances of the cylinders and see if
there was or is a problem with the machining. I also think a lower
baffle under the jugs is the answer. Lycoming has them continental has
them and I know if you don't put them on the corvair it will over heat
also I was told they don't have them I don't know never studied one very
close. Another problem is the fins I believe are smooth and rough fins
cool better. Sand blasting them might help. It is a simple matter of not
only getting the air where you need it but keeping it there long enough
to allow the heat to transfer and smooth fins don't disturb the air that
flows over it. It is apparent to me that they knew they had a cooling
problem otherwise they wouldn't have added more fins would they.
Don't take this the wrong way I would like to help try and find an
answer to this problem and I am in no way saying Jab is a bad engine or
trying to start a pissing contest with Jab. but to put your head in the
sand and say there is no problem is doing a disservice to not only
themselves but every builder that supports them and buys their engine.
In a message dated 11/20/2007 10:46:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tonyplane@bellsouth.net writes:
<tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL.
Have last gen cowling and engine.
New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and
latest
cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing.
Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab
deflectors in
the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I
could not
keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without
approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added
about a
30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to
high 90s
F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time
at high
power.
Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300
-----------
Time: 09:07:59 PM PST US
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating
problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem.
My
friend
is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him
I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the
tolerances
are
from one cylinder to the sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE
find you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y -->
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
But it seems to me the Jab. is a lot more trouble some than most.
In a message dated 11/21/2007 8:25:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
shilocom@mcmsys.com writes:
Here's one of those "I haven't done that exactly" replies. There seem to be
a whole lot of differences in Jabaru installations concerning "how hot they
run". I've found that is the case with most aircooled engines. Some
"experimenters" just don't understand the critical nature of the differentual
pressure required to cool and air cooled engine. The smallest changes can have
large effects on that differential pressure and the resulting cooling of the
engine. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: _steve_ (mailto:notsew_evets@frontiernet.net)
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never could
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wrong
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: _Afterfxllc@aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc@aol.com)
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet some
fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotje
and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who's
airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for an
updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was
interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall
design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installation
is
performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the
front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates
from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site just
last
week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
-Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Glass Panels |
Andy,
I agree with Paul & Bob. If all else fails, look out the window.
Much nicer out there than staring at a panel anyway.
--------
Do not archive
Dan Stanton
99% done DAR to go
801, IO360
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147678#147678
Message 9
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| Subject: | Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
Sorry Mr. Sock resides with me.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
NYTerminat@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
Dave, was Mister sock there too????
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes:
Jon Croke was also there filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video
on this topic.
_____
See what's new
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
11/20/2007 11:34 AM
11/21/2007 10:01 AM
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Glass Panels |
It is my plan to go with a Dynon EFIS. I will also have a Garmin 496 in the panel
and as I have written here before I've tested flight under a hood with ONLY
the GPS derived 6-pack in the Garmin.
That said I will be leaving spots available for both AS and Alt should I decide
to get my IFR ticket in the plane.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147687#147687
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Scratchbuilding Tools |
Just to add a data point.
I got my Olfa knife from AAA Industrial supply via Amazon.com for $8.48
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147688#147688
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
Perhaps the Jabiru seems to have a lot more problems because there
are a lot of Jabirus in service? The Jabiru also generates a lot of
horsepower and all that means a lot of potential heat problems.
Paul
XL fuselage, Jabiru 3300
do not archive
At 05:47 AM 11/21/2007, you wrote:
>But it seems to me the Jab. is a lot more trouble some than most.
Message 13
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<<<is your rear
fuselage turtledeck already riveted in place?>>
NO IT'S NOT
bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: Brad Cohen
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger
Bob,
Finally talked to ZAC and they faxed me the drawings. there are photo
guide
pages for TD online. From what I can see from looking at the drawings
instead of working Monday, you will have to remove the tie down ring
and
install the tail spring forward pickup on the front HT frame. is your
rear
fuselage turtledeck already riveted in place?
BJC
>From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger
>Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:57:53 -0600
>
>My plans built fuselage I bought has the tie down ring already
installed.
>i haven't started on the taildragger mods yet or studied the
drawings.
>Wonder if I've got a lot to change. Bob U.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Sewell
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger
>
>
> Brad,
>
> As I remember, the only change on the bottom rear fuselage
assembly had
>to do with the lower rudder hinge plate. You don't drill the center
hole
>for the rear tie down eye bolt. The more significant changes start
when
>you begin work on the forward fuselage floor.
>
> Take a look at my web site for some pictures.
>
> http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/082804.htm
> http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/090204.htm
>
> http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Cabin_Floor/092904a.htm
>
> Bill Sewell
> N601BZ
>
>
> On 11/19/07, Brad Cohen <bradfnp@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> I was just getting started on the rear fuselage when a cold
chill ran
>down
> my spine, I realized that the blueprints I was folliowing were
for the
> tricycle version. A quick check revealed that I didn't receive
the TD
> blueprint page with the parts shipment.
>
> Thankfully I have not progressed too far. (just now installing
the
>bottom
> skin l-angles.) How soon do I need to start considering the
>taildragger
> specific changes? the photo guide is really not too clear on
when to
>make
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Control Friction |
Gentlemen,
This mod is to replace the fairlead on the HT frame for the lower elevator cable.
Is there a mod for the larger fairlead that is connected to the bottom of
one of the bulkheads for the top cable?
I'm building in the US but not really comfortable with two plastic fairleads here.
Anyone else replaced fairleads with pulleys that would like to share?
Thanks
--------
601 XL kit
Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage
www.scottwaters.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147694#147694
Message 15
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| Subject: | Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
I think you are not very well informed there. Jabiru's are not any harder
than any other engine to cool and probably easier than corvair's and VW's.
Install them with the same differential pressure between top and bottom cowl
and you will get the same cooling performance as a Cont or Lyc. Provide
less than required differential pressure and you will have inadequate
cooling on any of the engines. Provide adequate pressure drop across the
cylinders and any of the aircraft engines will cool well.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
But it seems to me the Jab. is a lot more trouble some than most.
In a message dated 11/21/2007 8:25:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
shilocom@mcmsys.com writes:
Here's one of those "I haven't done that exactly" replies. There seem to be
a whole lot of differences in Jabaru installations concerning "how hot they
run". I've found that is the case with most aircooled engines. Some
"experimenters" just don't understand the critical nature of the
differentual pressure required to cool and air cooled engine. The smallest
changes can have large effects on that differential pressure and the
resulting cooling of the engine. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: steve <mailto:notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never could
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wrong
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I
want to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the
tolerances are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet
some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete
Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don
Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there
filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the
things I was interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest
ZAC firewall design requires some slight modifications in the way the
cross-rod installation is performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but
you have to work around the front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the
back side. Look for updates from Jabiru in the near future. We also went
over the new oil cooler installation. I understand that new instructions
hit the Jabiru web site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took
during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
-Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
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As many of you know I started a thread concerning Tom Henderson and the fact
he was selling parts for the Zenith 601 xl and in all fairness to Tom I have
to say that today I received a postal money order for the full amount that
was sent to him for the wing tanks. I feel it is important to speak up when
someone is doing something wrong but it is equally as important to offer praise
when they do the right thing also.
I want to thank Tom for the money order and hope he gets things together and
fulfills the other orders that builders have been waiting for.
Best of luck
Jeff
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| Subject: | Glass Panels and back-ups |
As with any issue we discuss on the list, there are as many answers as
there are people to ask. Craig's answer is, "Why add steam gauges when I
installed a glass panel unit to get rid of them?" Good answer. My answer
is that I am installing two AFS AF-3400 units to get more info packed
into less space and displayed in a format which I find more intuitive.
The point for me is to be able to sum up what the display is telling me
much more quickly so that I can act on the info with less lag time and
get my head back out of the cockpit for more of the flight.
The HSI on the EFIS screen requires only a glance to get the same data
into my brain compared to three or four times as long to get the same
situational awareness from a six-pack of steam gauges. The "picutre" of
the HSI takes me much less time and attention diverted form the outside
world. Old pilots will argue that with enough practice and experience,
the six-pack would serve me just as well. True, but the HSI on the EFIS
does it for me now not 100 or 200 hours from now. Is that a cheat? Who
knows? I think it is a good thing. The color and audible warnings
programmed into the displays warn me of various speeds, temps, pressures
etc. and can alert me more quickly if trouble is coming my way. Some
older warbirds had panels designed so that all the steam gauge needles
pointed straight up when they were "in the green". That made it faster
and easier to scan the instruments. In a similar fashion, that's what
the glass panels do for me. For some guys, it might just be eye candy or
the futile quest to be at the cutting edge of technology. For me, it is
a desire to make each flight as safe and rewarding as I can make
it....... now, today, on the very next flight.
I will differ from Craig in that I'm not on a quest to eliminate steam
gauges anymore than I am on a jihad against all wisdom teeth in my
dental practice. I only work to remove as many of the troublesome ones
as I can. Similarly, I have installed an ASI steam gauge and a Tiny Tach
in my panel to give me the absolute minimum info I want (my opinion
only) to get the plane back onto the ground if something unexpected
screws up the glass panel(s). What could possibly do that? Hell if I
know..... it wouldn't be unexpected if I could answer that, would it? I
just know that when I fly from the rear seat of my fat ultralight with
an unrated pilot in the front (solo) seat, I have a tach and ASI in the
rear seat to get me what I need to know. End of lecture... class
dismissed.
I hope that helps,
Dred
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
Pete when the plane gets here I would like to fix this problem as soon as
possible, I have not worked on a jab as of yet but like a good challenge. Th
e
one thing about this engine is the unknown and what I mean by that is we hav
e
no idea what happened to it in it's first 75 hrs and that is the reason I w
ant
to tare it down and see if there were any prolonged over heating conditions
that might be the cause of the over heating now. What I would like is the
specs on the engine if you could send them to me as far as the temps go and
any
information and photos of a correctly installed baffle or mod's that help it
run cool. As you probably know just because someone holds an A&P license
doesn't make them a mechanic. I would be happy to work with you to try and
resolve this problem.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/21/2007 10:43:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pete@usjabiru.com writes:
I think you are not very well informed there. Jabiru=99s are not any
harder
than any other engine to cool and probably easier than corvair=99s an
d VW=99s.
Install them with the same differential pressure between top and bottom cow
l
and you will get the same cooling performance as a Cont or Lyc. Provide le
ss
than required differential pressure and you will have inadequate cooling on
any of the engines. Provide adequate pressure drop across the cylinders an
d
any of the aircraft engines will cool well.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
____________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol
.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
But it seems to me the Jab. is a lot more trouble some than most.
In a message dated 11/21/2007 8:25:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
shilocom@mcmsys.com writes:
Here's one of those "I haven't done that exactly" replies. There seem to b
e
a whole lot of differences in Jabaru installations concerning "how hot they
run". I've found that is the case with most aircooled engines. Some
"experimenters" just don't understand the critical nature of the differentu
al
pressure required to cool and air cooled engine. The smallest changes can
have
large effects on that differential pressure and the resulting cooling of th
e
engine. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: _steve_ (mailto:notsew_evets@frontiernet.net)
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer
with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never cou
ld
get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range
.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let
her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I
guess they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wron
g
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHT
s
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: _Afterfxllc@aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc@aol.com)
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My
friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him
I want
to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances
are from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past
weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to mee
t some
fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotj
e
and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who'
s
airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for a
n
updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was
interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall
design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installa
tion is
performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around th
e
front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for update
s
from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler
installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site j
ust last
week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well !
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
-Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
____________________________________
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre
f="h
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http
://f
orums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre
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ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http
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orums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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m/Na
vigator?Zenith-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Rudder Nose Skin |
HI ART
JUST A QUESTION, DID YOU DRILL THE NOSE SKIN WITHOUT THE REAR SKIN IN PLACE
. IF SO, THAT MIGHT HAVE CAUSED THE PROBLEM. IF I UNDERSTAND IT CORRECTLY
, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO HAVE A SHIM BETWEENT HE RIB AND SKIN ALL THE WAY AROUND
THE RIB. I DIDN'T HAVE THIS PROBLEM WITH MINE.
GLENN> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:59:59 -0500> From: cndmovn@gmail.com> To:
zenith-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin> > --
don't think that is an issue at all. No amount of wind force is> going to
make that skin move.> > I would just leave it.> > On Nov 20, 2007 8:15 PM,
Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> > --> Zenith-List message
posted by: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>> >> > I think my post w
as not clear enough. The gap I've experienced is in between the tip of the
upper> > and lower nose ribs and the LE of the skin. If you look cross sect
ionally down the leading edge> > of the nose skin light can be seen between
the apex of both rib tips and the nose skin. I'm not> > seeing a how shim
can work in this senario since the tip of the rib flange is tapered at the
nose> > and no rivets exist in that area to fasten the shim too?> >> > ---
Paul Riedlinger <cndmovn@gmail.com> wrote:> >> > > --> Zenith-List message
posted by: "Paul Riedlinger" <cndmovn@gmail.com>> >> > >> > > Art:> > >> >
> I had the opposite problem on one of my wings. The inboard 4 ribs for> >
> the wing walk were centered on the top of the skin but when I flipped> >
> the wing over, the ribs were recessed by about 3/32" so that when> > > ri
vitted, the skin would be pulled concave. I added a small shim> > > between
the rib and the skin to correct the issue and make it look> > > better. Dr
ove me crazy. I must have gotten a Monday AM 601XL wing> > > kit as the top
rear skins were drilled wrong as well.> > >> > > Oh well, nothing a little
fiddling cant fix!> > >> > > On Nov 20, 2007 5:54 PM, LarryMcFarland <larr
Farland <larry@macsmachine.com>> > > >> > > > Art,> > > > If you have an in
ability to pull a cleco down to close a gap without> > > > getting a dimple
, a shim can be made the thickness> > > > you need and taped in place. If I
understood your problem, the thin> > > > punched shim would hold the mater
ial> > > > where you want without that dented look that some pulled rivets
cause> > > > for uneven surfaces.> > > >> > > > Larry> > > > do not archive
> > > >> > > >> > > > Art Olechowski wrote:> > > > > --> Zenith-List messag
e posted by: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>> > > > >> > > > > Lar
ry,> > > > > Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes?
the rib flange holes aft of> > > the> > > > > spar?> > > > >> > > > > Art>
> > > > --- LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:> > > > >> > > >
chine.com>> > > > >>> > > > >> Art,> > > > >> One solution is pre-drilled s
hims taped in place before assembly.> > > > >> Been there and done that on
rib height, but you have to be careful and> > > > >> cleco check the result
.> > > > >>> > > > >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com> > > >
>>> > > > >> Art Olechowski wrote:> > > > >>> > > > >>> --> Zenith-List mes
sage posted by: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>> > > > >>>> > > >
>>> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled
the holes through> > > > >>>> > > > >> spar> > > > >>> > > > >>> and nose
skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of the skin
. But> > > > >>>> > > > >> when I> > > > >>> > > > >>> overlapped the nose
skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both nose ribs contain> > >
> >>>> > > > >> about a> > > > >>> > > > >>> 1.5mm gap in between the skin.
Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges. Have any> > > of> > > > >
>>> > > > >> you> > > > >>> > > > >>> experienced this and if so whats are
the resolutions or recommendations?> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> Thanks
,> > > > >>> Art> > > > >>> 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete> > > > >>>>
> > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>
> > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >
>> > >> > >> > >> >> > > --> > > Paul Riedlinger> > > cndmovn@gmail.com> >
>> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Paul Riedlinger> cndmov
======> > >
_________________________________________________________________
You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i=92m Init
iative now.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Control Friction |
Will check Rays 601HD when at airfield Friday the Sketch he used of Mod no
10366 is stronger than the current PFA Drawing it shows 11/2 inch x 11/2
inch x 1/8th inch & the length is 6 inches pulley 2 inch OD it is installed
where control cable angle changes as cable will saw through a plastic
fairlead in UK, not it seems in US .
The PFA could not find their mod at time of rays inspection.
G CBDG 179 Hrs
Clive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Pohl" <mpohl@pohltec.ch>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:33 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Elevator Control Friction
>
> Rob: I am also interested in the sheet-thickness of the bracket. For the
> ones who don't know the link to the modification, here it is:
>
> http://www.pfa.org.uk/Standard%20Mods/162_SM10366.pdf
>
> Cheers Martin
>
> --------
> Martin Pohl
> Zodiac XL QBK
> 8645 Jona, Switzerland
> www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147551#147551
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
What horse power does a Jabiru 3300 give at 2600 rpm?
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Roll over protection |
Thanks Jay and others who responded. I hate it when I don't know what
people are talking about.
Terry
At 05:00 PM 11/20/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Terry, Back in the "Olden Days", circa 1938 or so, the trunk lid of most
>cars was humped and looked somewhat like a turtle shell. So the trunk lid
>became called the "turtle deck" or just "turtle". The trunk, of course,
>was just behind the passenger compartment. It just carried over in
>aviation to that part of the fuselage that is just behind the passenger
>compartment, the "turtle deck".
>
>Jay in Dallas
>Do not archive
Terry Phillips
ttp44@rkymtn.net
Message 23
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| Subject: | Replace aileron control cables with prush rods. |
Has any one done this in a 601XL? Anyone see any reason not to?
Pros-
No need for the counter balance cable.
Positive control connection.
Cons
Weight
Loss of control pressure balance between ailerons and rudder and elevator.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147722#147722
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
FYI
See http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/charles.long@gm.com.10.23.2005/
for some good ideas on cooling.
Also, at 2600 rpm per the Jab manual's performance curve graph,
available online from Jab USA at http://www.usjabiru.com/), H.P =
about 105/ torque about 203 ft-lbs
Hope this helps.
Tony Graziano
Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 N493TG
Message 25
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| Subject: | Replace aileron control cables with prush rods. |
Gig,
I laid out the geometrics and it is a straight shot, along the centerline of the
wing spar, from the control rod bellcrank connection to the aileron bellcrank
connection. It would be a little over 8' long; so the only unknown (to me) is
the size of rod that would be required. Maybe one of the aeronautical engineers
on board could determine that for you. Sounds do-able.
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>Has any one done this in a 601XL? Anyone see any reason not to?
>
>Pros-
>No need for the counter balance cable.
>Positive control connection.
>
>Cons
>Weight
>Loss of control pressure balance between ailerons and rudder and elevator.
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147722#147722
>
>
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Hello All:
I have seen many references to a LRI what does it do and how
does it work. Thanks.
John Read
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: What is an LRI? |
Lift Reserve Indicator - basically an angle of attack indicator. I suggest you
run a search on either term.... there was a lot of discussion on it in the past.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147754#147754
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| Subject: | Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods. |
I have not done it but I'm been entertaining the idea of having cables running
from the aileron bellcrank to another bellcrank in rib #1 and then a pushrod from
the bellcrank in rib #1 to the aileron torque tube horn 6B17-4.
My reason for this is because I would like to be able to remove/attach the wings
without having to go inside the fuselage and deal with the aileron cables.
When removing the wing, this mod will allow disconnection of the ailerons by just
removing the pushrod from the bellcrank in rib #1. This will require a slotted
opening in the fuselage to allow clearance for the bellcrank to move, a boot
could cover this opening from the inside.
Of course, if I decide pursuing this route I will submit it to ZAC for approval.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
Has any one done this in a 601XL? Anyone see any reason not to?
Pros-
No need for the counter balance cable.
Positive control connection.
Cons
Weight
Loss of control pressure balance between ailerons and rudder and elevator.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147722#147722
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| Subject: | Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend |
With any engine, name it Jabiru, Rotax, Corvair, water cooled auto conversion
(all and any of them). We needs a well designed cowling for the engine and/or
the radiator.
Is not easy, is like choosing or carving a propeller, -- If we are going to
carve it, we need to start with something that is working in simlar aplications
before doing our own, or buy one of the advised brands (Sesenich, Warp, etc
to name only two) --
To get a good working cowling, the best route for us homebuilders, I think is
to buy a Firewall Forward kit for your airplane (includes the cowling), Then
do any little mod needed, in case the temperatures are not the perfect ones,
using the advise of REAL flyers in type, from this lists... (Not from me yet,
will start my first Jabiru instalation in a 601 XL in a few weeks).
I have already installed 5 Rotax 912 engines, only two was in the numbers
for temperatures since the first flight, the other 3 needed a little tweek (sp?)
in the cooling system, finally all work perfectly in our area and altitudes...
Same happened with the propellers (performance), they needed to find
the perfect degrees in each aplications.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
701 912S
Building a 601 XL (Jab powered)
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
PS: Homebuild Help Videos are Great Help!
Pete Krotje <pete@usjabiru.com> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } I think you are not very
well informed there. Jabirus are not any harder than any other engine to
cool and probably easier than corvairs and VWs. Install them with the same differential
pressure between top and bottom cowl and you will get the same cooling
performance as a Cont or Lyc. Provide less than required differential pressure
and you will have inadequate cooling on any of the engines. Provide adequate
pressure drop across the cylinders and any of the aircraft engines will
cool well.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
---------------------------------
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
But it seems to me the Jab. is a lot more trouble some than most.
In a message dated 11/21/2007 8:25:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, shilocom@mcmsys.com
writes:
Here's one of those "I haven't done that exactly" replies. There seem to
be a whole lot of differences in Jabaru installations concerning "how hot they
run". I've found that is the case with most aircooled engines. Some "experimenters"
just don't understand the critical nature of the differentual pressure
required to cool and air cooled engine. The smallest changes can have large
effects on that differential pressure and the resulting cooling of the engine.
bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: steve
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer with
a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never could get
the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range.
I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let her
do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475......
However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range.
At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I guess
they didnt want to know EGTs.
Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wrong
location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs
are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend
They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar.
Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems,
I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My friend
is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want to
tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances are
from one cylinder to the next.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, david.m.gallagher@ge.com
writes:
Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past weekend
at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet some fellow
Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotje and Mark
Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who's airplane
we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for an updated
Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was interested in
seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall design requires
some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installation is performed
on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the front shelf
L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates from Jabiru in
the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler installation. I understand
that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site just last week. Attached
are a few pictures I took during the class as well
!
as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg
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Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: What is an LRI? |
Hey John,
It's a Lift Reserve Indicator. There's a really good synopsis on Mark Townsends
601 site. Go here:
http://www.ch601.org/resources/aoa/aoa.htm
Be prepared though. You're going to want one. The good news is it's inexpensive,
easy to make, and there are a guys on the list here who make the probes and
sell them very reasonably. The guy who made mine is Scott Laughlin. I'm not
sure if he's still making them or not, but mine is very well-made. Do an archive
search here and you'll find him.
Good luck.
Debo Cox
Nags Head, NC
Scratchbuilt XL/Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/debo
do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods. |
Gig,
The "rod" would have to be a tube at 8 feet, but more a concern would be
the support and attachment of the bellcrank designed for a pull-pull
rather than a push-pull arrangement. That has greater implications for
failure, long term. The other is the length of the tube and the
frequency of vibration it may acquire from the aircraft.
The lesser problem swinging an arc with a tube of proper diameter, (
3/4" diameter or more) would likely encroach on the clearance inside.
Simplicity is always better and cable is simple. I believe "being
do-able" and "a better alternative" are not the same thing here.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
>
> Gig,
>
> I laid out the geometrics and it is a straight shot, along the centerline of
the wing spar, from the control rod bellcrank connection to the aileron bellcrank
connection. It would be a little over 8' long; so the only unknown (to me)
is the size of rod that would be required. Maybe one of the aeronautical engineers
on board could determine that for you. Sounds do-able.
>
> Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
>
>> Has any one done this in a 601XL? Anyone see any reason not to?
>>
>> Pros-
>> No need for the counter balance cable.
>> Positive control connection.
>>
>> Cons
>> Weight
>> Loss of control pressure balance between ailerons and rudder and elevator.
>>
>> --------
>> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>> 601XL Under Construction
>> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Glass Panels |
i am all dynon 100 and 120 with no Back up steam guages, its a waist of weight
and money. want insurance, get the back up battery and compass. you can see
my lay out on zentih website.
To test it i shut the master switch off and flew a few touch and goes on just B/U
battery on EFIs. did just fine. Used hand held for radio work.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: DRAGONFUEL@aol.com
>Sent: Nov 21, 2007 2:14 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Glass Panels
>
>The Dragonfly Aviation N601BA is licensed as an ELSA and is used for flight
>training for hire. We installed the Dynon EFIS 100 and EMS 120 -- ONLY, with
>no backup. We did not believe that any other back up, other than "look out
>the window" was needed. Sport aircraft were designed to emulate the early
>simple airplanes, such as the J-3 Cub and flown for "fun" in VFR condition.
No
>gyros are required for VFR flight. The Dynons are probably overkill, but do
>make flying with them almost a dream. Why try to simplify your airplane by
>eliminating duplication and then add it back. Personally I believe that in
>the long run the Dynons are simpler to operate, cheaper to purchase and
>install, and will require less maintenance over the life of the airplane. Every
>flight instructor is supposed to teach every student pilot to fly his/her
>airplane without reference to any instrument except sound and feel, and be able
to
>land it safely in an emergency. Those two Dynon monitors, or a single Dynon
>180 are all you need, IMHO.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Bob Archibald
>CH601XL/Lyc 125hp/Dynons/400 hrs.
>Dragonfly Aviation
>Santa Rosa, CA
>
>PS I have been a "lurker" on this list for about 2 years, work with Michael
>Heintz's Quality Sport Planes in California. I have met a number of you at
>various airshows and corresponded with several of you directly. I may now
>post directly to this list from time to time.
>
>
>**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
>products.
>(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 33
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| Subject: | Rudder Nose Skin |
Glenn,
No I did not, the rear skin overlapped the nose skin when I did the drilling.
But I now know what
the culprit was, the top rib had an upward ramp at the tip which I discovered while
filing the
nose skin flush to the top rib web. To correct this, I detached the rivets from
the top rib and
enhanced the forward flutes to flatten the top rib. After doing so successfully
the tip fell
further down angle of the LE of the nose skin thus creating the gap. The lower
nose rib just
needs to be pulled in tighter and re-clecoed and it appears it will be good to
go. I'm not happy
with the kit part but I'm also to blame for not thoroughly inspecting the part
prior to drilling.
So my choices are A)leave it as is B)buy a replacement part from Zen(not likely),
or
C)scratchbuild a new one with the others. Most likely I will do option 'C' just
cause I want it
done right.
do not archive
Art
--- GLENN JOHNSON <gljno10@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> HI ART
>
> JUST A QUESTION, DID YOU DRILL THE NOSE SKIN WITHOUT THE REAR SKIN IN PLACE.
IF SO, THAT MIGHT
> HAVE CAUSED THE PROBLEM. IF I UNDERSTAND IT CORRECTLY, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO HAVE
A SHIM BETWEENT
> HE RIB AND SKIN ALL THE WAY AROUND THE RIB. I DIDN'T HAVE THIS PROBLEM WITH
MINE.
>
> GLENN> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:59:59 -0500> From: cndmovn@gmail.com> To:
> zenith-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin> > -->
Zenith-List message
> posted by: "Paul Riedlinger" <cndmovn@gmail.com>> > I don't think that is an
issue at all. No
> amount of wind force is> going to make that skin move.> > I would just leave
it.> > On Nov 20,
> 2007 8:15 PM, Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> > --> Zenith-List
message posted
> by: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>> >> > I think my post was not clear
enough. The gap
> I've experienced is in between the tip of the upper> > and lower nose ribs and
the LE of the
> skin. If you look cross sectionally down the leading edge> > of the nose skin
light can be seen
> between the apex of both rib tips and the nose skin. I'm not> > seeing a how
shim can work in
> this senario since the tip of the rib flange is tapered at the nose> > and no
rivets exist in
> that area to fasten the shim too?> >> > --- Paul Riedlinger <cndmovn@gmail.com>
wrote:> >> > >
> > > I had the opposite problem on one of my wings. The inboard 4 ribs for> >
> the wing walk
> were centered on the top of the skin but when I flipped> > > the wing over, the
ribs were
> recessed by about 3/32" so that when> > > rivitted, the skin would be pulled
concave. I added a
> small shim> > > between the rib and the skin to correct the issue and make it
look> > > better.
> Drove me crazy. I must have gotten a Monday AM 601XL wing> > > kit as the top
rear skins were
> drilled wrong as well.> > >> > > Oh well, nothing a little fiddling cant fix!>
> >> > > On Nov
> 20, 2007 5:54 PM, LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:> > > > --> Zenith-List
message
> posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>> > > >> > > > Art,> > > > If
you have an
> inability to pull a cleco down to close a gap without> > > > getting a dimple,
a shim can be
> made the thickness> > > > you need and taped in place. If I understood your problem,
the thin> >
> > > punched shim would hold the material> > > > where you want without that dented
look that
> some pulled rivets cause> > > > for uneven surfaces.> > > >> > > > Larry> > >
> do not archive>
> Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>> > > > >> > > > > Larry,> > > > > Can you
elaborate some,
> the shims would attach to which holes? the rib flange holes aft of> > > the>
> > > > spar?> > >
> > >> > > > > Art> > > > > --- LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:>
> > > >> > > > >> >
> > >> Art,> > > > >> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly.>
> > > >>
> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and> > > >
>> cleco check the
> result.> > > > >>> > > > >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com> > > > >>> > > > >>
> <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> He all I have a dilemma with
my nose skin on the
> rudder. When I drilled the holes through> > > > >>>> > > > >> spar> > > > >>>
> > > >>> and nose
> skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of the skin.
But> > > > >>>> > >
> > >> when I> > > > >>> > > > >>> overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin
and clecoed in
> place both nose ribs contain> > > > >>>> > > > >> about a> > > > >>> > > > >>>
1.5mm gap in
> between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges. Have any>
> > of> > > > >>>>
> > > > >> you> > > > >>> > > > >>> experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions
or
> recommendations?> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> Thanks,> > > > >>> Art> > >
> >>> 701 Scratch
> builder .0005% Complete> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>>
> > > >>> > > >
> >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> > >>
> > >> > >> >> > > --> > > Paul Riedlinger> > > cndmovn@gmail.com> > >> > >> >
>> > >> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Paul Riedlinger> cndmov======> > >
> _________________________________________________________________
> You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative
now.
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re:Replace aileron control cables with push rods. |
I have often thought of that, but I admit that I'm no trailblazer. I just
want to build the plane first. I also see some builders asked about elevator
cable interference a little while back. Any questions about tubing size, etc.,
could be answered by looking at other planes and see what the designer did there.
I'll dig out my old Thorp T-18 drawings again and check details. John Thorp
used elevator and aileron push rods for this 170 KT airplane. Push rods aided
in the quick disconnect of the controls when removing the wing. Only problem
ever encountered was in the flying tail. Accumulated slop caused flutter above
190 KTIAS. Cured by counter balancing. I do not see this as a problem for a
601XL. The T-18 handles sweet. I think the Mustang ll also has push rods too.
Anybody interested, e-mail me and I'll try to get some details back to you. BTW,
Thorp also designed the Piper Cherokee and it shares design details with the
T-18.
Bob Dingley from Pace, FL
601XL (picking away)
Do not archive
**************************************
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Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Nose Skin |
Paul,
I think I'll build me a new one and back drill through the existing skin holes
to make it right.
I agree probably does not matter either way.
do not archive
Art
--- Paul Riedlinger <cndmovn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't think that is an issue at all. No amount of wind force is
> going to make that skin move.
>
> I would just leave it.
>
> On Nov 20, 2007 8:15 PM, Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > I think my post was not clear enough. The gap I've experienced is in between
the tip of the
> upper
> > and lower nose ribs and the LE of the skin. If you look cross sectionally
down the leading
> edge
> > of the nose skin light can be seen between the apex of both rib tips and the
nose skin. I'm
> not
> > seeing a how shim can work in this senario since the tip of the rib flange
is tapered at the
> nose
> > and no rivets exist in that area to fasten the shim too?
> >
> > --- Paul Riedlinger <cndmovn@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Art:
> > >
> > > I had the opposite problem on one of my wings. The inboard 4 ribs for
> > > the wing walk were centered on the top of the skin but when I flipped
> > > the wing over, the ribs were recessed by about 3/32" so that when
> > > rivitted, the skin would be pulled concave. I added a small shim
> > > between the rib and the skin to correct the issue and make it look
> > > better. Drove me crazy. I must have gotten a Monday AM 601XL wing
> > > kit as the top rear skins were drilled wrong as well.
> > >
> > > Oh well, nothing a little fiddling cant fix!
> > >
> > > On Nov 20, 2007 5:54 PM, LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Art,
> > > > If you have an inability to pull a cleco down to close a gap without
> > > > getting a dimple, a shim can be made the thickness
> > > > you need and taped in place. If I understood your problem, the thin
> > > > punched shim would hold the material
> > > > where you want without that dented look that some pulled rivets cause
> > > > for uneven surfaces.
> > > >
> > > > Larry
> > > > do not archive
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Art Olechowski wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry,
> > > > > Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib
flange holes aft
> of
> > > the
> > > > > spar?
> > > > >
> > > > > Art
> > > > > --- LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Art,
> > > > >> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly.
> > > > >> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and
> > > > >> cleco check the result.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Art Olechowski wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled
the holes
> through
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> spar
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside
of the skin.
> But
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> when I
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place
both nose ribs
> contain
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> about a
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled
in flanges. Have
> any
> > > of
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> you
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Thanks,
> > > > >>> Art
> > > > >>> 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > --
> > > Paul Riedlinger
> > > cndmovn@gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Paul Riedlinger
> cndmovn@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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Old @#%s don't do glass very well. With almost 1,000 hours with a high end
system, I still caught myself watching the standbys during take off and other
critical flight phases. The glass just had so much detail and clutter. More if
you went into "reversion" and combined the EADI with the EHSI or vice versa. If
you didn't like your readings, switch your panel to the co pilot's air data
computer. I'm retired now. Starting with the fact that an experimental requires
no instrumation at all for day/vfr. That said, I like to put the hood on and
stay proficient. I do like the idea of the Dynon 120 all in one box. The
downside is when you crank up hundreds of miles from home and the screen goes
black. With the old round gauges, you could find a quick replacement or go VFR
with
what you have remaining. You could even limp home with only an oil press if
you had to. It would have to be a real pretty day though.
Bob
Do not archive
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Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Cargo Tie down rings |
Thanks,
I think I found it. Does "Approach and landing accidents" sound right for
the title?
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
----- Original Message -----
From: "aprazer" <aprazer@cableone.net>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cargo Tie down rings
>
> Raymond,
> faasafety.gov (FAASafety.gov) [announce@faasafety.gov] in conjunction with
> the Idaho State Aeronautics put this program in Boise a couple of weeks
> ago.
> Very informative!
> Mack
>
> --------
> The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146451#146451
>
>
>
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