---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/22/07: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:23 AM - What Are You Thankful For...? (Matt Dralle) 1. 06:59 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 55 Msgs - 11/20/07 () 2. 08:10 AM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Terry Turnquist) 3. 08:22 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: Turtle Deck (John M. Goodings) 4. 08:46 AM - Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! (Scott Laughlin) 5. 09:02 AM - Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! (Larry Winger) 6. 09:19 AM - Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! (Gary Boothe) 7. 09:30 AM - Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! (Jaybannist@cs.com) 8. 10:20 AM - Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! (Terry Phillips) 9. 10:39 AM - Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! (rroberts) 10. 11:27 AM - Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! (eddies) 11. 12:48 PM - Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! (Geoff Heap) 12. 01:11 PM - PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. (Geoff Heap) 13. 01:52 PM - Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. (Paul Mulwitz) 14. 02:47 PM - Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! (wade jones) 15. 02:56 PM - Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. (Tim Juhl) 16. 03:38 PM - Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. (LarryMcFarland) 17. 03:45 PM - Re: Elevator Control Friction (Dave Thompson) 18. 04:39 PM - Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 19. 04:43 PM - Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. (Bryan Martin) 20. 04:47 PM - Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. (Bryan Martin) 21. 04:55 PM - Re: Elevator Control Friction (Gary Ray) 22. 06:04 PM - Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. (MacDonald Doug) 23. 06:28 PM - C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc (RayStL) 24. 06:40 PM - Re: Elevator Control Friction (Rick Lindstrom) 25. 07:37 PM - Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc (kmccune) 26. 07:40 PM - Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods. (Dave Nixon) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:52 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: What Are You Thankful For...? Dear Listers, Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed upon us. Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists. One of my favorite kind of comments is when write to me and says something like, "Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!". That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning to check my List email!! Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for their continued operation and upgrade? The List Contribution Site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your kind consideration, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:38 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 55 Msgs - 11/20/07 Please remove from list Dnl ---- Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-11-20&Archive=Zenith > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 07-11-20&Archive=Zenith > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Zenith-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue 11/20/07: 55 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 0. 12:12 AM - [Please Read] Why I Have A Fund Raiser... (Matt Dralle) > 1. 03:00 AM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Brad Cohen) > 2. 03:08 AM - Re: 701 Build time (rroberts) > 3. 04:10 AM - Re: Free forming sheet metal (kmccune) > 4. 05:19 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (steve) > 5. 05:31 AM - Re: Free forming sheet metal (MacDonald Doug) > 6. 05:32 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Afterfxllc@aol.com) > 7. 05:39 AM - Elevator Control Friction (countzero) > 8. 05:53 AM - Re: Quick Question About 601XL Z-angles (Paul Mulwitz) > 9. 06:19 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Pete Krotje) > 10. 06:43 AM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (LarryMcFarland) > 11. 06:46 AM - Re: Taildragger (Aaron Gustafson) > 12. 06:54 AM - Re: Roll over protection (Aaron Gustafson) > 13. 07:01 AM - Re: Roll over protection (Gig Giacona) > 14. 07:20 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Afterfxllc@aol.com) > 15. 07:40 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (T. Graziano) > 16. 08:21 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Afterfxllc@aol.com) > 17. 09:13 AM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Randy) > 18. 09:30 AM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Terry Phillips) > 19. 10:52 AM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Art Olechowski) > 20. 11:02 AM - RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (DaveG601XL) > 21. 01:05 PM - Re: Roll over protection (Terry Phillips) > 22. 01:09 PM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (T. Graziano) > 23. 01:11 PM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (T. Graziano) > 24. 01:33 PM - Re: Elevator Control Friction (Martin Pohl) > 25. 01:44 PM - Re: Roll over protection (Gig Giacona) > 26. 01:50 PM - Emailing: tommy929 004 (steve) > 27. 02:01 PM - Re: Roll over protection (Jaybannist@cs.com) > 28. 02:13 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools () > 29. 02:55 PM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (LarryMcFarland) > 30. 03:18 PM - Re: of wrath and rants... (secatur) > 31. 03:26 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Terry Turnquist) > 32. 03:32 PM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Paul Riedlinger) > 33. 03:47 PM - Re: Re: of wrath and rants... (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)) > 34. 03:52 PM - Re: 701 Arm rest/console (kmccune) > 35. 04:10 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Al Hays) > 36. 04:17 PM - 4130N-or-not-N (Flydog1966@aol.com) > 37. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Roll over protection (David Downey) > 38. 04:45 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Ron Culver) > 39. 05:06 PM - Re: ELT Position. (leinad) > 40. 05:10 PM - Re: RE : Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (Graeme) > 41. 05:15 PM - Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend (Afterfxllc@aol.com) > 42. 05:16 PM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Art Olechowski) > 43. 05:34 PM - 701 Build Time (Dan) > 44. 05:55 PM - Re: 4130N-or-not-N (LarryMcFarland) > 45. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build (Ron Lalonde) > 46. 06:55 PM - Re: Hello all... (Joshua) > 47. 07:45 PM - Re: Free forming sheet metal (Ron Lendon) > 48. 07:45 PM - Glass Panels (Andrew Hinsdale) > 49. 08:01 PM - Re: Rudder Nose Skin (Paul Riedlinger) > 50. 08:24 PM - Re: Glass Panels (craig@craigandjean.com) > 51. 08:32 PM - Re: Taildragger (Brad Cohen) > 52. 09:54 PM - Re: Scratchbuilding Tools (mosquito56) > 53. 10:09 PM - Re: Glass Panels (Paul Mulwitz) > 54. 11:16 PM - Re: Glass Panels (DRAGONFUEL@aol.com) > > > > ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 12:12:34 AM PST US > From: Matt Dralle > Subject: Zenith-List: [Please Read] Why I Have A Fund Raiser... > > > Dear Listers, > > Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity > to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience > over the commercial equivalents. > > I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running > a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from > the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run > the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying > banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other > garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years > regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the > non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once > a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists. > > I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over > the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to > be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these > Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments stripped > off prior to posting. I also provide a Photo and File Share feature that > allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone can > be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before > they are posted. More recently, I have enabled limited posting of a number of > file formats including pictures and PDFs. > > Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List > Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives > go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the very > fast Search Engine, the huge size of some of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly > finding the data you're looking for. > > And added just a couple of years ago is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer the Web BBS-style of List interaction. The beauty of the new List Forums is that they contain the exact same content that is distributed via email. Messages posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa. The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures and other files (http://forums.matronics.com ). Additionally, added recently is the List Wiki that allows members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting various aspects of their project for all to share ( http://wiki.matronics.com ). > > I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since > about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building > RVs. It has grown into nearly 70 different aviation-related Email Lists and > an associated web site that receives over 34,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally, > the List Email system forwarded well over 77,000 postings last year, accounting > for an unbelievable 33,000,000 (yes, that's 33 MILLION) email messages > delivered to Matronics List subscribers! I think there's a lot of value in supporting > a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and improving > a high quality service all _without any advertising budget_! > > I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the > quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message, > Search the Archives, use the List Browser, or surf the Forums and Wiki sites. > The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a > while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, > and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual > List Fund Raiser! > > List Contribution Web Site: > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > Thank you, > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:00:00 AM PST US > From: "Brad Cohen" > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin > > > Art, > If the gap is symmetrical to the centerline of flight (eg; the aircraft) and > it is securely riveted to both sides of the ribs, I would say that you > shouldn't sweat it. I cant imagine that it will affect the flight > characteristics that mush to have the rudder 1.5mm longer than specs. The > only thing I can think of is yo might have to adjust the position of the > saddle much much much later in your build. > > Brad Cohen > XL/TD > > > >From: Art Olechowski > >To: Zenith Matornics list > >Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin > >Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:05:25 -0800 (PST) > > > > > >He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled > >the holes through spar > >and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of > >the skin. But when I > >overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both > >nose ribs contain about a > >1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in > >flanges. Have any of you > >experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations? > > > > > >Thanks, > >Art > >701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:08:22 AM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Build time > From: "rroberts" > > > Yep, me too: > Started 5/26/04 Completed 10/07/07 (my fault) airframe hours 1027, powerplant > hours 45, other 93 for a total of 1194 hours. BUT...I guess there's 1/4 to 1/2 > that time I probably didn't log. There's no column in my Builder's Log tor > pondering... [Shocked] > > -------- > Low & Slow > Rick > www.n701rr.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147430#147430 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:10:34 AM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Free forming sheet metal > From: "kmccune" > > > Very nice! I've been wondering about those English wheel! > > Kevin > > -------- > Kevin > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147436#147436 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:19:08 AM PST US > From: "steve" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid > Flyer with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I > never could get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in > the 1475 range. > I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and > let her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475...... > However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range. > At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. > I guess they didnt want to know EGTs. > Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the > wrong location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the > flange..... CHTs are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is > doing.. > > SW > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar. > Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating > problems, I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle > problem. My friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this > but I told him I want to tare down the complete engine and check to see > how close the tolerances are from one cylinder to the next. > > Jeff > > In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes: > > > Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this > past weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and > got to meet some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar > leaders, Pete Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as > well as Don Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke > was also there filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this > topic. One of the things I was interested in seeing was the dual > throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall design requires some slight > modifications in the way the cross-rod installation is performed on the > top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the front shelf > L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates from > Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler > installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web > site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the > class as well ! > as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck. > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL, tail and wings completed, > fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg > http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you > for -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - > MATRONICS WEB FORUMS > ==================== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:31:38 AM PST US > From: MacDonald Doug > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Free forming sheet metal > > > Hey Ron, really nice looking work. Quick question > though, is it common to use 6061-T6 for metalworking > like that? I was under the impression that a softer > alloy was preferable. > > Doug MacDonald > CH-701 Scratch Builder > NW Ontario, Canada > > --- Ron Lendon wrote: > > > > > > > A friend asked if I could make a scoop to replace > > the one on his 1946 Fairchild. I used a shot bag, > > english wheel, planishing hammer and various hammers > > to shape a flat piece of .040 6061-T6. Here is a > > link to some pictures of the first attempt. > > > > http://picasaweb.google.com/ron.lendon/FoxFairchild > > > > Do not archive > > > > -------- > > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > Be a better pen pal. > Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:32:21 AM PST US > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he has > tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but still can't > > get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one engine I would have > nothing to do with and I am not saying that because it isn't a Lycoming or > continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just that a lot of builders can't > > make the damn thing run cool. I guess they can justify the price increase > because it is one hot engine. LOL > > Jeff > > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes: > > I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer > with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never could > get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range. > I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let > her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475...... > However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range. > At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I > guess they didnt want to know EGTs. > Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wrong > location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs > are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing.. > > SW > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: _Afterfxllc@aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc@aol.com) > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar. > Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems, > I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My > friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want > > to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances > are from one cylinder to the next. > > Jeff > > > In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes: > > > Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past > weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet some > > fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotje > and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who's > > airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for an > updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was > interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall > design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installation > is > performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the > front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates > from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler > installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site just > last > week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well ! > as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck. > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL, tail and wings completed, > fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg > http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt > Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ==================== > > > ____________________________________ > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http:// > forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) > (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:39:45 AM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Elevator Control Friction > From: "countzero" > > > UK built XLs have a mandatory modification to replace the existing fairlead on > the fuselage frame with a pulley wheel mounted on fabricated brackets to reduce > the friction in the elevator control circuit. > > Just a question for UK builders; can anyone tell me the thickness of the sheet > I should use or you used for the brackets? > > Rob > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147445#147445 > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:53:24 AM PST US > From: Paul Mulwitz > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Quick Question About 601XL Z-angles > > > Hi Doug, > > On my XL, the Z angles are only used around the fuselage bottom > door. I think the reason they give you extra pieces is because there > was (is?) a mistake on one of the drawings that shows the most > forward Z oriented backwards. I used up some of my stock to replace > that part after installing it the way the wrong drawing showed and > then used the rest of the stock finishing the door edging. I wrote > to ZAC to ask where it was also used to see if I needed to order > more, and got the response that it was only used there. > > Paul > XL fuselage > > At 06:16 PM 11/19/2007, you wrote: > > > >I'm placing an order for some parts from Zenith and realized, there > >seems to be a discrepancy (or I'm looking in the wrong place). > > > >Page 6B1 lists 6 pieces of Z-angle required. For the life of me, I > >can't see where more than 4 pieces are required (around the bottom > >hatch). Where else is this stuff used? > > > >Someone straighten this confused soul out, please. > > > >Doug > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:19:15 AM PST US > From: "Pete Krotje" > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a properly > designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a problem to > keep it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven years we've sold > well over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are coupled with an established > FWF kit they run cool. When builders put something together without the > proper engineering results can be unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that > cool well in fast aircraft like the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like > a Kitfox or Zenith 701. It is not the engine that does not cool well. > > > If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the same > cowl design he would have the same cooling results. > > > Pete > > > _____ > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Afterfxllc@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:30 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he has > tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but still > can't get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one engine I would > have nothing to do with and I am not saying that because it isn't a Lycoming > or continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just that a lot of builders > can't make the damn thing run cool. I guess they can justify the price > increase because it is one hot engine. LOL > > > Jeff > > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes: > > I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer > with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never could > get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range. > > I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let > her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475...... > > However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range. > > At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I > guess they didnt want to know EGTs. > > Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wrong > location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs > are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing.. > > > SW > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > > > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar. > > Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems, > I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My > friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I > want to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the > tolerances are from one cylinder to the next. > > > Jeff > > > In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes: > > > Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past > weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to meet > some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete > Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don > Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there > filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the > things I was interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest > ZAC firewall design requires some slight modifications in the way the > cross-rod installation is performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but > you have to work around the front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the > back side. Look for updates from Jabiru in the near future. We also went > over the new oil cooler installation. I understand that new instructions > hit the Jabiru web site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took > during the class as well ! > as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck. > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL, tail and wings completed, > fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg > http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for > -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS > ==================== > > > _____ > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref > "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http > ://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/ > Navigator?Zenith-List > .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > > > _____ > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:43:17 AM PST US > From: LarryMcFarland > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin > > > Art, > One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly. > Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and > cleco check the result. > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > Art Olechowski wrote: > > > > He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled the > holes through spar > > and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of the > skin. But when I > > overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both nose > ribs contain about a > > 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges. > Have any of you > > experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Art > > 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:46:32 AM PST US > From: "Aaron Gustafson" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger > > There are changes in the forward fuselage and the wing stubs for the > tail dragger. > > Aaron 601 HDTD 40+ hours > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:54:03 AM PST US > From: "Aaron Gustafson" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll over protection > > I put roll over protection in my HD but it involved changing the turtle > deck. One plus side though was that I did not buy a $1000 canopy but > made my own from unbreakable and easily replaceable Lexan for less than > $100. > > Aaron Gustafson > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/AGCB2/My%20601%20HDTD/E-1stlanding > wave.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:01:17 AM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Roll over protection > From: "Gig Giacona" > > > Do you have some more photos of your canopy that you could post or mail to me off > list? > > > agustafson(at)chartermi.n wrote: > > I put roll over protection in my HD but it involved changing the turtle deck. > One plus side though was that I did not buy a $1000 canopy but made my own > from unbreakable and easily replaceable Lexan for less than $100. > > > > Aaron Gustafson > > > > > > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147468#147468 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:20:14 AM PST US > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab. owners wit > h > the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one thing I hear > most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is and when I get i > t > here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab. 3300 doesn't run hot is a > > stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm enough is really a stretch. I' > m > only talking about the 601xl also I don't know about other planes. I do kno > w > from talking to Sabastion that one other water cooled power plant in the 60 > 1 > had a problem cooling also. > > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > pete@usjabiru.com writes: > > > It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a properly > designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a problem to > keep > it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven years we=99ve sol > d well over > 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are coupled with an established FWF kit > they run cool. When builders put something together without the proper > engineering results can be unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool wel > l in > fast aircraft like the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or > Zenith 701. It is not the engine that does not cool well. > If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the same > cowl design he would have the same cooling results. > Pete > > > ____________________________________ > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol > .com > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:30 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he has > tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but still c > an't > get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one engine I would have > > nothing to do with and I am not saying that because it isn't a Lycoming or > continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just that a lot of builders ca > n't > make the damn thing run cool. I guess they can justify the price increase > because it is one hot engine. LOL > > > Jeff > > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes: > > > I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer > with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never cou > ld > get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range > .. > > I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let > her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475...... > > However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range. > > At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I > guess they didnt want to know EGTs. > > Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wron > g > location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHTs > > are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing.. > > > SW > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: _Afterfxllc@aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc@aol.com) > > > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar. > > Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems, > > I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My > friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him > I want > to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances > > are from one cylinder to the next. > > > Jeff > > > In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" > > Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past > weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to mee > t some > fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotj > e > and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who' > s > airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for a > n > updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was > interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall > > design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installa > tion is > performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the > > front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for update > s > from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler > installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site j > ust last > week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well ! > as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck. > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL, tail and wings completed, > fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg > http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for > > -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS > ==================== > > > ____________________________________ > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre > f="h > ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http > ://f > orums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.co > m/Na > vigator?Zenith-List > .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ____________________________________ > > _http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ > ator > = > uch much > (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) > great content > (http://forums.matronics.com/) > =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:40:05 AM PST US > From: "T. Graziano" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL. > Have last gen cowling and engine. > New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and latest > cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing. > > Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab deflectors in > the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I could not > keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without > approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added about a > 30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to high 90s > F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time at high > power. > > > Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300 > ----------- > Time: 09:07:59 PM PST US > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar. > Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems, > I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My > friend > > is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want > to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances > are > > from one cylinder to the next. > > Jeff > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:21:31 AM PST US > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > He added the lip to the lower cowling but it did very little. He also has > the Cowling from zenith for the Jab. I haven't seen it but it is coming my way > > on a trailer so I can try and fix it or replace it with a corvair. And I > disagree with Pete, baffling isn't rocket science there are thousands of planes > > out their flying and most of the builders never made baffling before and they > > don't have this problem, I want to tare down the engine and check the > tolerances of the cylinders and see if there was or is a problem with the machining. > > I also think a lower baffle under the jugs is the answer. Lycoming has them > continental has them and I know if you don't put them on the corvair it will > over heat also I was told they don't have them I don't know never studied one > > very close. Another problem is the fins I believe are smooth and rough fins > cool better. Sand blasting them might help. It is a simple matter of not only > > getting the air where you need it but keeping it there long enough to allow > the heat to transfer and smooth fins don't disturb the air that flows over > it. It is apparent to me that they knew they had a cooling problem otherwise > they wouldn't have added more fins would they. > Don't take this the wrong way I would like to help try and find an answer to > this problem and I am in no way saying Jab is a bad engine or trying to start > a pissing contest with Jab. but to put your head in the sand and say there > is no problem is doing a disservice to not only themselves but every builder > that supports them and buys their engine. > > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 10:46:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > tonyplane@bellsouth.net writes: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano" > > Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL. > Have last gen cowling and engine. > New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and latest > cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing. > > Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab deflectors in > the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I could not > keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without > approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added about a > 30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to high 90s > F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time at high > power. > > > Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300 > ----------- > Time: 09:07:59 PM PST US > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar. > Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems, > I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My > friend > > is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I want > to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances > are > > from one cylinder to the next. > > Jeff > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:13:29 AM PST US > From: "Randy" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > I have to agree with Pete. I live in Wisconsin and in summer I hardly > ever get a CHT reading over 300F. > Now that the onset of winter is coming I have to add some deflectors to > keep the temperatures higher. I flew the other day, 25 degrees, and a > couple of cylinders were between 160 and 180 degrees. I have the older > style 3300 without the additional cooling fins. I also have the older > style RAM air cooling ducts with the ignition wires on the outside. My > installation is exactly like JabirueUSA suggests. I added deflectors, > inside the RAM air ducts, so air would flow through the middle two and > last two cylinders. If anything, I would like to know what people of > done (who fly in cold weather) to keep their CHT's higher. > > Randy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:18 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab. > owners with the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one > thing I hear most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is > and when I get it here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab. > 3300 doesn't run hot is a stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm > enough is really a stretch. I'm only talking about the 601xl also I > don't know about other planes. I do know from talking to Sabastion that > one other water cooled power plant in the 601 had a problem cooling > also. > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > pete@usjabiru.com writes: > It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a > properly designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a > problem to keep it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven > years we=99ve sold well over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are > coupled with an established FWF kit they run cool. When builders put > something together without the proper engineering results can be > unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool well in fast aircraft like > the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or Zenith 701. It > is not the engine that does not cool well. > > > > If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the > same cowl design he would have the same cooling results. > > > > Pete > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Afterfxllc@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:30 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > > His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he > has tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but > still can't get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one > engine I would have nothing to do with and I am not saying that because > it isn't a Lycoming or continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just > that a lot of builders can't make the damn thing run cool. I guess they > can justify the price increase because it is one hot engine. LOL > > > > Jeff > > > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes: > > I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an > Avid Flyer with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In > fact I never could get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs > were in the 1475 range. > > I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) > and let her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475...... > > However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range. > > At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru > airplanes. I guess they didnt want to know EGTs. > > Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in > the wrong location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the > flange..... CHTs are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is > doing.. > > > > SW > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past > Weekend > > > > They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar. > > Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has > overheating problems, I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than > a baffle problem. My friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at > about this but I told him I want to tare down the complete engine and > check to see how close the tolerances are from one cylinder to the next. > > > > > Jeff > > > > In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard > Time, david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes: > > > > Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar > this past weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time > and got to meet some fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to > seminar leaders, Pete Krotje and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient > with us as well as Don Guice, who's airplane we used as the guinea pig. > Jon Croke was also there filming for an updated Homebuilt Help 101 video > on this topic. One of the things I was interested in seeing was the > dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall design requires some > slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installation is performed > on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around the front > shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for updates > from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cooler > installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web > site just last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the > class as well ! > as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske > truck. > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL, tail and wings completed, > fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg > http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE > find you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS > ==================== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributionf > ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics. > com/Navigator?Zenith-List.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution List Admin. to rchive much st > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron > ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List -= --> http://forums.matronics.com > ============ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:30:48 AM PST US > From: Terry Phillips > Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > > > I've hung back w/o adding yet another source, but, I guess I'll go ahead. I > bought mine from > > http://rjrcooltools.com/ > > It was $8 with no shipping charges; prompt and courteous service. RJR > appears to be a small business that supplies high quality tools for > modelers. The owner was surprised that I was going to use it to cut > aluminum, but he has since added that to his product description. > > I have no connection with RJR, other than as a satisfied customer. > > Terry > > > At 06:41 PM 11/19/2007 -0800, you wrote: > >Check in art/craft supply stores. None of my local hardware stores carry > >the Olfa P-800 but most of the craft stores do. > > > >William Dominguez > >Zodiac 601XL Plans > >Miami Florida > > > Terry Phillips > ttp44~at~rkymtn.net > Corvallis MT > 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab > http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:52:45 AM PST US > From: Art Olechowski > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin > > > Larry, > Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib flange holes > aft of the > spar? > > Art > --- LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > > > Art, > > One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly. > > Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and > > cleco check the result. > > > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > > Art Olechowski wrote: > > > > > > He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled the > holes through > > spar > > > and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of > the skin. But > > when I > > > overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both nose > ribs contain > > about a > > > 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges. > Have any of > > you > > > experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations? > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Art > > > 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:02:30 AM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: RE : RE: Scratchbuilding Tools > From: "DaveG601XL" > > > I second Bryan's remark. After looking for an Olfa 800 for a while with no luck, > I realized that I got satisfactory results from just a plain old utility knife. > I have found that I cut way more aluminum with a knife that with shears. > Before starting this project, I would not have thought that was possible. > > Good luck, > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL, tail and wings completed, > fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147526#147526 > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:05:29 PM PST US > From: Terry Phillips > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll over protection > > I hate to ask a really dumb question, but ... > > Just what is a "turtle deck," and why is it call that? > > Thanks. > > do not archive > > Terry > > At 08:53 AM 11/20/2007 -0600, you wrote: > >I put roll over protection in my HD but it involved changing the turtle > >deck. One plus side though was that I did not buy a $1000 canopy but made > >my own from unbreakable and easily replaceable Lexan for less than $100. > > > >Aaron Gustafson > > > Terry Phillips > ttp44~at~rkymtn.net > Corvallis MT > 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab > http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:09:32 PM PST US > From: "T. Graziano" > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > Again, > The only time I have had a problem was when I would try climbing at high > power and low airspeed (high angle of attack) on a HOT day, for any > extended period of time - after I installed deflectors in the ducts. > > The deflectors for #3 and #5 must be small, (about 3/4 inch flange X 2 > to 3 inches at about 30/40 degree bend - experiment with them) or they > will, in my experience, have a detrimental effect on cooling #5 and #5. > > I installed the extension to my cowling lower lip before the Jab SB and > unless the day is REALLY HOT, I can climb out at full power continuously > - (Not a normal operation for me though) > > My hottest cyl is usually #2. (the one in front on the left side) > > My cowling was part of the Jab FWF kit received in Nov 05, not the older > one once provided through Zenith. It is not the latest improved one > provided in the current Jab USA FWF kits. > .. > When it is cold out, about 50 deg F and below, I am usually careful > descending and come down under power as all my CHTs go below 190F very > easily. I have not flown on really cold days with the cowling extension > - I should hope I will not have a too cold type problem. (You may have > also heard that the Jab is hard to start on really cold days - NOT SO!. > Just follow Jab USA's advice - it works, in my experience, down to 10F/ > - 12C.) > > You may wish to check the prop on your friends airplane. If it is not a > Sensenich Jab approved or Jab prop, there could be a major problem with > getting enough air into the intakes. > > Also recommend check to see if the oil cooler opening is sealed > sufficiently enough to pass most of the air through the cooler only. > > Tony Graziano > XL with 321.2 really enjoyable flying hours behind a smooth running, > easily maintained, Jab 3300 > > --------------- > > > Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > Date: Tue Nov 20 - 8:21 AM > > He added the lip to the lower cowling but it did very little. He also > has > the Cowling from zenith for the Jab. I haven't seen it but it is coming > my way > > on a trailer so I can try and fix it or replace it with a corvair. And I > > disagree with Pete, baffling isn't rocket science there are thousands > of planes > > out their flying and most of the builders never made baffling before > and they > > don't have this problem, I want to tare down the engine and check the > tolerances of the cylinders and see if there was or is a problem with > the machining. > > I also think a lower baffle under the jugs is the answer. Lycoming has > them > continental has them and I know if you don't put them on the corvair it > will > over heat also I was told they don't have them I don't know never > studied one > > very close. Another problem is the fins I believe are smooth and rough > fins > cool better. Sand blasting them might help. It is a simple matter of > not only > > getting the air where you need it but keeping it there long enough to > allow > the heat to transfer and smooth fins don't disturb the air that flows > over > it. It is apparent to me that they knew they had a cooling problem > otherwise > they wouldn't have added more fins would they. > Don't take this the wrong way I would like to help try and find an > answer to > this problem and I am in no way saying Jab is a bad engine or trying to > start > a pissing contest with Jab. but to put your head in the sand and say > there > is no problem is doing a disservice to not only themselves but every > builder > that supports them and buys their engine. > > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 10:46:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > tonyplane@bellsouth.net writes: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano" > > > Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL. > Have last gen cowling and engine. > New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and > latest > cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing. > > Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab deflectors > in > the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I > could not > keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without > approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added > about a > 30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to > high 90s > F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time at > high > power. > > > Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar > This Past Weekend From: Randy (rpf@wi.rr.com) Date: Tue Nov 20 > - 9:13 AM I have to agree with Pete. I live in Wisconsin and in summer > I hardly > ever get a CHT reading over 300F. > Now that the onset of winter is coming I have to add some deflectors to > keep the temperatures higher. I flew the other day, 25 degrees, and a > couple of cylinders were between 160 and 180 degrees. I have the older > style 3300 without the additional cooling fins. I also have the older > style RAM air cooling ducts with the ignition wires on the outside. My > installation is exactly like JabirueUSA suggests. I added deflectors, > inside the RAM air ducts, so air would flow through the middle two and > last two cylinders. If anything, I would like to know what people of > done (who fly in cold weather) to keep their CHT's higher. > > Randy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:18 AM > Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab. > owners with the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one > > thing I hear most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is > > and when I get it here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab. > 3300 doesn't run hot is a stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm > enough is really a stretch. I'm only talking about the 601xl also I > don't know about other planes. I do know from talking to Sabastion that > one other water cooled power plant in the 601 had a problem cooling > also. > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > pete@usjabiru.com writes: > It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a > properly designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a > > problem to keep it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven > years we=99ve sold well over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are > coupled with an established FWF kit they run cool. When builders put > something together without the proper engineering results can be > unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool well in fast aircraft like > the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or Zenith 701. It > is not the engine that does not cool well. > > > > If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the > same cowl design he would have the same cooling results. > > > > Pete > > > ----------- > Time: 09:07:59 PM PST US > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar. > Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating > problems, > I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My > > friend > > is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I > want > to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the > tolerances > are > > from one cylinder to the next. > > Jeff > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:11:57 PM PST US > From: "T. Graziano" > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > One minor correction - I received my cowling in Nov 04 vice 05. > Tony Graziano > ----- Original Message ----- > From: T. Graziano > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > Again, > The only time I have had a problem was when I would try climbing at > high power and low airspeed (high angle of attack) on a HOT day, for any > extended period of time - after I installed deflectors in the ducts. > > The deflectors for #3 and #5 must be small, (about 3/4 inch flange X 2 > to 3 inches at about 30/40 degree bend - experiment with them) or they > will, in my experience, have a detrimental effect on cooling #5 and #5. > > I installed the extension to my cowling lower lip before the Jab SB > and unless the day is REALLY HOT, I can climb out at full power > continuously - (Not a normal operation for me though) > > My hottest cyl is usually #2. (the one in front on the left side) > > My cowling was part of the Jab FWF kit received in Nov 05, not the > older one once provided through Zenith. It is not the latest improved > one provided in the current Jab USA FWF kits. > . > When it is cold out, about 50 deg F and below, I am usually careful > descending and come down under power as all my CHTs go below 190F very > easily. I have not flown on really cold days with the cowling extension > - I should hope I will not have a too cold type problem. (You may have > also heard that the Jab is hard to start on really cold days - NOT SO!. > Just follow Jab USA's advice - it works, in my experience, down to 10F/ > - 12C.) > > You may wish to check the prop on your friends airplane. If it is not > a Sensenich Jab approved or Jab prop, there could be a major problem > with getting enough air into the intakes. > > Also recommend check to see if the oil cooler opening is sealed > sufficiently enough to pass most of the air through the cooler only. > > Tony Graziano > XL with 321.2 really enjoyable flying hours behind a smooth running, > easily maintained, Jab 3300 > > --------------- > > > Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > Date: Tue Nov 20 - 8:21 AM > > He added the lip to the lower cowling but it did very little. He also > has > the Cowling from zenith for the Jab. I haven't seen it but it is coming > my way > > on a trailer so I can try and fix it or replace it with a corvair. And I > > disagree with Pete, baffling isn't rocket science there are thousands > of planes > > out their flying and most of the builders never made baffling before > and they > > don't have this problem, I want to tare down the engine and check the > tolerances of the cylinders and see if there was or is a problem with > the machining. > > I also think a lower baffle under the jugs is the answer. Lycoming has > them > continental has them and I know if you don't put them on the corvair it > will > over heat also I was told they don't have them I don't know never > studied one > > very close. Another problem is the fins I believe are smooth and rough > fins > cool better. Sand blasting them might help. It is a simple matter of > not only > > getting the air where you need it but keeping it there long enough to > allow > the heat to transfer and smooth fins don't disturb the air that flows > over > it. It is apparent to me that they knew they had a cooling problem > otherwise > they wouldn't have added more fins would they. > Don't take this the wrong way I would like to help try and find an > answer to > this problem and I am in no way saying Jab is a bad engine or trying to > start > a pissing contest with Jab. but to put your head in the sand and say > there > is no problem is doing a disservice to not only themselves but every > builder > that supports them and buys their engine. > > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 10:46:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > tonyplane@bellsouth.net writes: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "T. Graziano" > > > Have 320 hrs on my Jab in my XL. > Have last gen cowling and engine. > New engines have more cooling fin area, changed ram air ducts, and > latest > cowling has been redesigned - for more cooliing. > > Recommend to you friend that if the standard recommended Jab deflectors > in > the ram air ducts do not give him the cooling he needs (In mine, I > could not > keep full power in a steep climb in high OAT for very long without > approaching red line on CHT) then have him see JSB 015 -1. I added > about a > 30mm extension to the lower lip of my cowling. At high OAT (mid to > high 90s > F) I can now climb out at a higher angle for a much much longer time at > high > power. > > > Tony Graziano; N493TG/Jab 3300Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar > This Past Weekend From: Randy (rpf@wi.rr.com) Date: Tue Nov 20 > - 9:13 AM I have to agree with Pete. I live in Wisconsin and in summer > I hardly > ever get a CHT reading over 300F. > Now that the onset of winter is coming I have to add some deflectors to > keep the temperatures higher. I flew the other day, 25 degrees, and a > couple of cylinders were between 160 and 180 degrees. I have the older > style 3300 without the additional cooling fins. I also have the older > style RAM air cooling ducts with the ignition wires on the outside. My > installation is exactly like JabirueUSA suggests. I added deflectors, > inside the RAM air ducts, so air would flow through the middle two and > last two cylinders. If anything, I would like to know what people of > done (who fly in cold weather) to keep their CHT's higher. > > Randy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:18 AM > Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab. > owners with the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one > > thing I hear most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is > > and when I get it here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab. > 3300 doesn't run hot is a stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm > enough is really a stretch. I'm only talking about the 601xl also I > don't know about other planes. I do know from talking to Sabastion that > one other water cooled power plant in the 601 had a problem cooling > also. > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > pete@usjabiru.com writes: > It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a > properly designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a > > problem to keep it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven > years we=99ve sold well over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are > coupled with an established FWF kit they run cool. When builders put > something together without the proper engineering results can be > unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool well in fast aircraft like > the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or Zenith 701. It > is not the engine that does not cool well. > > > > If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the > same cowl design he would have the same cooling results. > > > > Pete > > > ----------- > Time: 09:07:59 PM PST US > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > Subject: Re: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar. > Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating > problems, > I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My > > friend > > is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him I > want > to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the > tolerances > are > > from one cylinder to the next. > > Jeff > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:33:54 PM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Elevator Control Friction > From: "Martin Pohl" > > > Rob: I am also interested in the sheet-thickness of the bracket. For the ones who > don't know the link to the modification, here it is: > > http://www.pfa.org.uk/Standard%20Mods/162_SM10366.pdf > > Cheers Martin > > -------- > Martin Pohl > Zodiac XL QBK > 8645 Jona, Switzerland > www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147551#147551 > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:44:20 PM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Roll over protection > From: "Gig Giacona" > > > Turtle Deck is not an official aircraft term but it is top area of the fuselage > behind the cockpit. > > It's called that because it is shaped like the top of a turtle. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147552#147552 > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:50:45 PM PST US > From: "steve" > Subject: Zenith-List: Emailing: tommy929 004 > > Turtle Deck........... > > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > attachments: > tommy929 004 > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:01:36 PM PST US > From: Jaybannist@cs.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Roll over protection > > > Terry, Back in the "Olden Days", circa 1938 or so, the trunk lid of most cars was > humped and looked somewhat like a turtle shell. So the trunk lid became called > the "turtle deck" or just "turtle". The trunk, of course, was just behind > the passenger compartment. It just carried over in aviation to that part of > the fuselage that is just behind the passenger compartment, the "turtle deck". > > Jay in Dallas > Do not archive > > > Terry Phillips wrote: > > >I hate to ask a really dumb question, but ... > > > >Just what is a "turtle deck," and why is it call that? > > > >Thanks. > > > >do not archive > > > >Terry > > > >At 08:53 AM 11/20/2007 -0600, you wrote: > >>I put roll over protection in my HD but it involved changing the turtle > >>deck. One plus side though was that I did not buy a $1000 canopy but made > >>my own from unbreakable and easily replaceable Lexan for less than $100. > >> > >>Aaron Gustafson > > > > > >Terry Phillips > >ttp44~at~rkymtn.net > >Corvallis MT > >601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab > >http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:13:02 PM PST US > From: > Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > > Actually, it's just the blade; fits in a regular utility knife handle. > While nice to have, it isn't really necessary. When I needed to repalce > a trashed leading edge skin for the XL, a guy at Airparts in KC KS > showed me the cutting technique using just a regular utility knife. Held > it upside down in a hammer grip, scored about 10 times along a straight > edge, and bent it on the edge of the table. It broke clean as a whistle, > and I was on my way in less than ten minutes. Whenever my Olfa blade > isn't immediately to hand, I use a regular utility knife almost as > easily.. P.S. A guy who spent mucho years making big aluminum signs > turned me on to a neat way to make large cuts. His was a production > business, so they needed to work fast. He said to get a 4 x 8 sheet of > styrofoam, 4 or more inches thick, lay the sheet on it, and use a saber > saw to cut. Apparently there is such a thing as "blade Wax", which you > can get at Lowe's or Home Depot to use as lube. It may be necessary to > grind off an inch or so from the blade. He said you never go all the > way through the foam, so can use it over and over. I haven't tried it > yet, but it makes sense, and next time I need to make larger cuts I'll > give it a try. (I consider the day wasted if I don't learn something, > and catch hell from somebody). > > Paul Rodriguez > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Al Hays > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > > > > > > > Paul, > > No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware > stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either > last > time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility > knives > which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any > quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace > Hardware > would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its good > > that you and others in your area can take advantage of that. > Al > > On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM, > > wrote: > > > $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole > > lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives. > > > > Paul Rodriguez > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Al Hays > >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM > >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> Bob, > >> > >> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and > another > >> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is listed > as > >> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price of > >> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be > about > >> $8 > >> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to > drive > >> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps. > >> > >> Al > >> > >> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > >> > >> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country > hardware > >> > store doesn't have one. > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: Carlos Sa > >> >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > >> >> > >> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware > stores. > >> > >>======================= > ======================p; -- > Please > >> Support Your Lists This > Mitle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// cs.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://> > >> Browse, Chat, > >> FAQ,http:// > >> > www.m====================== > =======================nbsp > =nbsp/>; - > >> MATRONICS WEB FORUom/ > >> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// 22%3ehttp//> > >> > forums.matroni=================== > ==================== > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List avigator?Zenith-List> > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:55:55 PM PST US > From: LarryMcFarland > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin > > > Art, > If you have an inability to pull a cleco down to close a gap without > getting a dimple, a shim can be made the thickness > you need and taped in place. If I understood your problem, the thin > punched shim would hold the material > where you want without that dented look that some pulled rivets cause > for uneven surfaces. > > Larry > do not archive > > Art Olechowski wrote: > > > > Larry, > > Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib flange > holes aft of the > > spar? > > > > Art > > --- LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > > > >> > >> Art, > >> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly. > >> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and > >> cleco check the result. > >> > >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > >> > >> Art Olechowski wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled the > holes through > >>> > >> spar > >> > >>> and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of > the skin. But > >>> > >> when I > >> > >>> overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both nose > ribs contain > >>> > >> about a > >> > >>> 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges. > Have any of > >>> > >> you > >> > >>> experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations? > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Art > >>> 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:18:12 PM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: of wrath and rants... > From: "secatur" > > > Why are so many posters to this thread listed as "Guest" ? > > Are they members or not ? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147577#147577 > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:26:27 PM PST US > From: Terry Turnquist > Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > > I've used an air nibbler for cutting aluminum sheet. Cuts like butter and isn't > as likely to "take off" on it's own like the air shears. > > Terry > Do not archive > > > paulrod36@msn.com wrote: Actually, it's just the blade; fits in a regular > utility knife handle. While nice to have, it isn't really necessary. When I > needed to repalce a trashed leading edge skin for the XL, a guy at Airparts > in KC KS showed me the cutting technique using just a regular utility knife. > Held it upside down in a hammer grip, scored about 10 times along a straight > edge, and bent it on the edge of the table. It broke clean as a whistle, and > I was on my way in less than ten minutes. Whenever my Olfa blade isn't immediately > to hand, I use a regular utility knife almost as easily.. P.S. A guy > who spent mucho years making big aluminum signs turned me on to a neat way > to make large cuts. His was a production business, so they needed to work fast. > He said to get a 4 x 8 sheet of styrofoam, 4 or more inches thick, lay the > sheet on it, and use a saber saw to cut. Apparently there is such a thing as > "blade Wax", which you can get at Lowe's or Home > Depot to use as lube. It may be necessary to grind off an inch or so from the > blade. He said you never go all the way through the foam, so can use it over > and over. I haven't tried it yet, but it makes sense, and next time I need > to make larger cuts I'll give it a try. (I consider the day wasted if I don't > learn something, and catch hell from somebody). > > Paul Rodriguez > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Al Hays > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > > > > Paul, > > No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware > stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either last > time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility knives > which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any > quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace Hardware > would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its good > that you and others in your area can take advantage of that. > Al > > On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM, wrote: > > > $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole > > lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives. > > > > Paul Rodriguez > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Al Hays > >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM > >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > >> > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Al Hays > >> > >> > >> Bob, > >> > >> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and another > >> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is listed as > >> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price of > >> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be about > >> $8 > >> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to drive > >> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps. > >> > >> Al > >> > >> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > >> > >> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country hardware > >> > store doesn't have one. > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: Carlos Sa > >> >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > >> >> > >> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware stores. > >> >>==============================================p; -- Please > >> Support Your Lists This Mitle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > >> Browse, Chat, > >> FAQ,http:// > >> www.m=====================nbsp; - > >> MATRONICS WEB FORUom/ > >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// > >> forums.matroni======================================== > >p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link Free title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Chat, --> http://www.matron===================== > bsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:32:56 PM PST US > From: "Paul Riedlinger" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin > > > Art: > > I had the opposite problem on one of my wings. The inboard 4 ribs for > the wing walk were centered on the top of the skin but when I flipped > the wing over, the ribs were recessed by about 3/32" so that when > rivitted, the skin would be pulled concave. I added a small shim > between the rib and the skin to correct the issue and make it look > better. Drove me crazy. I must have gotten a Monday AM 601XL wing > kit as the top rear skins were drilled wrong as well. > > Oh well, nothing a little fiddling cant fix! > > On Nov 20, 2007 5:54 PM, LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > > Art, > > If you have an inability to pull a cleco down to close a gap without > > getting a dimple, a shim can be made the thickness > > you need and taped in place. If I understood your problem, the thin > > punched shim would hold the material > > where you want without that dented look that some pulled rivets cause > > for uneven surfaces. > > > > Larry > > do not archive > > > > > > Art Olechowski wrote: > > > > > > Larry, > > > Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib flange > holes aft of the > > > spar? > > > > > > Art > > > --- LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > >> Art, > > >> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly. > > >> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and > > >> cleco check the result. > > >> > > >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > >> > > >> Art Olechowski wrote: > > >> > > >>> > > >>> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled > the holes through > > >>> > > >> spar > > >> > > >>> and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside > of the skin. But > > >>> > > >> when I > > >> > > >>> overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both nose > ribs contain > > >>> > > >> about a > > >> > > >>> 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in flanges. > Have any of > > >>> > > >> you > > >> > > >>> experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Thanks, > > >>> Art > > >>> 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > Paul Riedlinger > cndmovn@gmail.com > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:47:52 PM PST US > From: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle) > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: of wrath and rants... > > > >-------------- > > > >Why are so many posters to this thread listed as "Guest" ? > > > >Are they members or not ? > >-------------- > > Members that are subscribed to the email lists but are _not_ registered > on the Forum, will show up as "Guest" with their email address shown. > > Only people that are registered specifically on the Forums will show > their Forum login and not "guest". > > Inotherwords, just because they are "guest" on the Forum, doesn't mean they are > really a "guest" status. You cannot post on the Forum without being > registered (which a guest could do). > > Best regards, > > Matt Dralle > List/Forum Admin > > > -- > > > Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:52:32 PM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Arm rest/console > From: "kmccune" > > > So is the seat width wider on the 601 then? I really don't know, as I've never > really looked at a 601 up close and all they list is cabin width. > But I do get shoulder/neck cramps and this would help. And I prefer to fly with > my Hands on the stick! Though I have been known to drive my truck with my knee > [Shocked] > > Kevin > > -------- > Kevin > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147584#147584 > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:10:34 PM PST US > From: Al Hays > Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > > > That certainly does look like a good source. Their price is now $9. > It seems anything gets priced higher if it's to be used on an aircraft. > But still, with no shipping, and no time and gas going to town, it's > the best I've heard of. Thanks. > > Al > > On Nov 20, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Terry Phillips wrote: > > > > > I've hung back w/o adding yet another source, but, I guess I'll go > > ahead. I bought mine from > > > > http://rjrcooltools.com/ > > > > It was $8 with no shipping charges; prompt and courteous service. RJR > > appears to be a small business that supplies high quality tools for > > modelers. The owner was surprised that I was going to use it to cut > > aluminum, but he has since added that to his product description. > > > > I have no connection with RJR, other than as a satisfied customer. > > > > Terry > > > > > > At 06:41 PM 11/19/2007 -0800, you wrote: > >> Check in art/craft supply stores. None of my local hardware stores > >> carry the Olfa P-800 but most of the craft stores do. > >> > >> William Dominguez > >> Zodiac 601XL Plans > >> Miami Florida > > > > > > Terry Phillips > > ttp44~at~rkymtn.net > > Corvallis MT > > 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the > > stab > > http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:17:25 PM PST US > From: Flydog1966@aol.com > Subject: Zenith-List: 4130N-or-not-N > > So why is it getting hard to find 4130 N ? > I just received my order for some 4130 N (thin sheet, from ACS.) and one > of the sheets is AMS 6350 j. > After a little research I find that this is in the annealed condition. A > call to ACS and I find that they will occasionally substitute this for the > normalized stock. > Zenith has changed there 701 dwgs ,dropping the "N" from the material > description,compared to the older dwgs. > So is it OK to use annealed ? > Phil Day > scrapbuilder > 701 > do not archive > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:37:49 PM PST US > From: David Downey > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Roll over protection > > Hey Gig; > > The oldest books I have and have seen all refer to the aft upper fuse surface as > the turtledeck. What makes a term official? It certainly has a lot of history! > > > Turtle Deck is not an official aircraft term but it is top area of the fuselage > behind the cockpit. > > It's called that because it is shaped like the top of a turtle. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147552#147552 > > > Dave Downey > Harleysville (SE) PA > 100 HP Corvair > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:45:12 PM PST US > From: "Ron Culver" > Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > > You can get Olfa blades and Cutters directly from Olfa and their prices > are good and you have quite a choice ..I have the p-800 at: > > http://www.olfa.com/UtilityKnivesDetail.aspx?C=35&Id=58 > > and the heavy duty replacement blades at : > > http://www.olfa.com/utilityknivesdetail.aspx?c=63&id=59 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: paulrod36@msn.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: 2007-11-20 17:11 > Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > > > Actually, it's just the blade; fits in a regular utility knife handle. > While nice to have, it isn't really necessary. When I needed to repalce > a trashed leading edge skin for the XL, a guy at Airparts in KC KS > showed me the cutting technique using just a regular utility knife. Held > it upside down in a hammer grip, scored about 10 times along a straight > edge, and bent it on the edge of the table. It broke clean as a whistle, > and I was on my way in less than ten minutes. Whenever my Olfa blade > isn't immediately to hand, I use a regular utility knife almost as > easily.. P.S. A guy who spent mucho years making big aluminum signs > turned me on to a neat way to make large cuts. His was a production > business, so they needed to work fast. He said to get a 4 x 8 sheet of > styrofoam, 4 or more inches thick, lay the sheet on it, and use a saber > saw to cut. Apparently there is such a thing as "blade Wax", which you > can get at Lowe's or Home Depot to use as lube. It may be necessary to > grind off an inch or so from the blade. He said you never go all the > way through the foam, so can use it over and over. I haven't tried it > yet, but it makes sense, and next time I need to make larger cuts I'll > give it a try. (I consider the day wasted if I don't learn something, > and catch hell from somebody). > > Paul Rodriguez > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Al Hays > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > > > > > Paul, > > No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware > stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either > last > time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility > knives > which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any > quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace > Hardware > would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its > good > that you and others in your area can take advantage of that. > Al > > On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM, wrote: > > > $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole > > lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives. > > > > Paul Rodriguez > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Al Hays > >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM > >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > >> > >> > >> > >> Bob, > >> > >> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and > another > >> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is > listed as > >> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price of > >> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be > about > >> $8 > >> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to > drive > >> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps. > >> > >> Al > >> > >> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > >> > >> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country > hardware > >> > store doesn't have one. > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: Carlos Sa > >> >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > >> >> > >> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware > stores. > >> > >>======================= > ======================p; -- > Please > >> Support Your Lists This > Mitle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > >> Browse, Chat, > >> FAQ,http:// > >> > www.m=====================nbsp; > - > >> MATRONICS WEB FORUom/ > >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// > >> > forums.matroni=================== > ==================== > >p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual > link Free title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List > nbsp; Features Chat, --> > http://www.matron================== > == > bsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:06:41 PM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ELT Position. > From: "leinad" > > > I missed the original thread, but wanted to add that I put mine in the tail section, > as that was where the manufacturer (AMERI-KING)recommended it be placed. > They said it was the area least likely to be destroyed in a crash. > I hope I never have to prove what a good location it was. > Dan > > -------- > Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147599#147599 > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:10:16 PM PST US > From: "Graeme" > Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > > If you are scratch building one of you best investments is a metal shear > with 8 - 10 inch blades. > Cheap $230 australian can cut full length of a sheet if required around > the outside of curves, > Mount it of the side of you table so sheet rests on table. > This thread is going on and on about a $2 Box cutter ?? > Get real. > > Graemecns > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Terry Turnquist > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:22 AM > Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > > > I've used an air nibbler for cutting aluminum sheet. Cuts like butter > and isn't as likely to "take off" on it's own like the air shears. > > Terry > Do not archive > > > paulrod36@msn.com wrote: > Actually, it's just the blade; fits in a regular utility knife > handle. While nice to have, it isn't really necessary. When I needed to > repalce a trashed leading edge skin for the XL, a guy at Airparts in KC > KS showed me the cutting technique using just a regular utility knife. > Held it upside down in a hammer grip, scored about 10 times along a > straight edge, and bent it on the edge of the table. It broke clean as a > whistle, and I was on my way in less than ten minutes. Whenever my Olfa > blade isn't immediately to hand, I use a regular utility knife almost as > easily.. P.S. A guy who spent mucho years making big aluminum signs > turned me on to a neat way to make large cuts. His was a production > business, so they needed to work fast. He said to get a 4 x 8 sheet of > styrofoam, 4 or more inches thick, lay the sheet on it, and use a saber > saw to cut. Apparently there is such a thing as "blade Wax", which you > can get at Lowe's or Home Depot to use as lube. It may be necessary to > grind off an inch or so from the blade. He said you never go all the > way through the foam, so can use it over and over. I haven't tried it > yet, but it makes sense, and next time I need to make larger cuts I'll > give it a try. (I consider the day wasted if I don't learn something, > and catch hell from somebody). > > Paul Rodriguez > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Al Hays > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > > > > > Paul, > > No Olfa brand knives are carried in the True Value or Ace Hardware > > stores in my area. Didn't see them in Lowe's or Home Depot either > last > time I trekked to town. They all carry various types of utility > knives > which might work, and some are only around $2.50 but most of any > quality are more than 6 or 8 bucks. I'm surprised that an Ace > Hardware > would be able to sell an Olfa P-800 for a whole lot less but its > good > that you and others in your area can take advantage of that. > Al > > On Nov 19, 2007, at 12:59 PM, wrote: > > > $8.48? Wow. Ace Hardware carries them at a whole > > lot less. Look in the aisle with the utility knives. > > > > Paul Rodriguez > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Al Hays > >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:58 PM > >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > >> > >> > >> > >> Bob, > >> > >> I found it online at OLFABLADES.COM and got extra blades and > another > >> knife to get more bang for buck on the shipping cost. It is > listed as > >> a heavy-duty plastic/laminate cutter with a current Sale Price > of > >> $8.48. Their minimum order has to be $15 and shipping would be > about > >> $8 > >> for that. Of course, today it would cost me that much in gas to > drive > >> to a store which might carry an OLFA knife. Hope this helps. > >> > >> Al > >> > >> On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > >> > >> > I know the number. just wondering what it was. Our country > hardware > >> > store doesn't have one. > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: Carlos Sa > >> >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:31 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: RE : RE: Zenith-List: Scratchbuilding Tools > >> >> > >> >> Bob, it is the OLFA P-800. You can find it it most hardware > stores. > >> > >>======================= > ======================p; -- > Please > >> Support Your Lists This > Mitle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > >> Browse, Chat, > >> FAQ,http:// > >> > www.m=====================nbsp; > - > >> MATRONICS WEB FORUom/ > >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// > >> > forums.matroni=================== > ==================== > >p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual > link Free title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List > nbsp; Features Chat, --> Get easy, one-click access to your > favorites. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > > 20/11/2007 5:44 PM > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:15:53 PM PST US > From: Afterfxllc@aol.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > As I have said I haven't had a chance to see my friends set up but I would > like to help him get it fixed so could you please send some pics of your > cowling and baffle setup? Also what aircraft is this in? > > Jeff > > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 12:16:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > rpf@wi.rr.com writes: > > I have to agree with Pete. I live in Wisconsin and in summer I hardly ever > > get a CHT reading over 300F. > Now that the onset of winter is coming I have to add some deflectors to kee > p > the temperatures higher. I flew the other day, 25 degrees, and a couple of > > cylinders were between 160 and 180 degrees. I have the older style 3300 > without the additional cooling fins. I also have the older style RAM air c > ooling > ducts with the ignition wires on the outside. My installation is exactly > like JabirueUSA suggests. I added deflectors, inside the RAM air ducts, so > air > would flow through the middle two and last two cylinders. If anything, I > would like to know what people of done (who fly in cold weather) to keep th > eir > CHT's higher. > > Randy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: _Afterfxllc@aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc@aol.com) > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:18 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > That's funny you say that because I have talked to a lot of Jab. owners wit > h > the 601 and hear the same story time and time again. The one thing I hear > most is # 6 is over 350. I think I know what the problem is and when I get > it > here I will see if I'm correct but to say the Jab. 3300 doesn't run hot is > a > stretch and to say it is hard to keep it warm enough is really a stretch. I > 'm > only talking about the 601xl also I don't know about other planes. I do kno > w > from talking to Sabastion that one other water cooled power plant in the 60 > 1 > had a problem cooling also. > > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 9:20:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > pete@usjabiru.com writes: > > > It is not difficult to make a Jabiru run cool. In fact with a properly > designed cowl that provides the correct airflow it is more of a problem to > keep > it warm enough in cooler months. In the last seven years we=99ve sol > d well > over 1000 Jabiru engines and when they are coupled with an established FWF > kit > they run cool. When builders put something together without the proper > engineering results can be unsatisfactory. We build FWF kits that cool wel > l in > fast aircraft like the Lightning as well as slow aircraft like a Kitfox or > Zenith 701. It is not the engine that does not cool well. > If an owner installed a Corviar, Continental, or Lycoming using the same > cowl design he would have the same cooling results. > Pete > > > ____________________________________ > > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol > .com > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:30 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > His CHT's are all over the place most of the time well over 305. he has > tried 3 different baffle kits and has an a&p doing all the work but still > can't > get the CHT's anywhere close to each other. That is one engine I would have > > nothing to do with and I am not saying that because it isn't a Lycoming or > continental because I have 5 corvair's, it's just that a lot of builders ca > n't > make the damn thing run cool. I guess they can justify the price increase > because it is one hot engine. LOL > > > Jeff > > > In a message dated 11/20/2007 8:20:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes: > > > I have not run my 3300 yet but I m gettin close. I did own an Avid Flyer > with a 2200A for 13 years. The 2200 always ran hot. In fact I never cou > ld > get the temps on the EGT below 1375. Sometimes EGTs were in the 1475 range > .. > > I solved my worries one day by flying above the airport (3000agl) and let > her do what ever she wanted. The engine ran fine at 1475...... > > However I did have good CHTs. CHTs were in the 190 to 265 range. > > At that time Jabiru didnt have EGTs on their factory Jabiru airplanes. I > guess they didnt want to know EGTs. > > Today I think the hight EGTs are a result of placing the probes in the wron > g > location. 100 mm is either too close or too far from the flange..... CHT > s > are probably the best tell tail of how your engine is doing.. > > > SW > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: _Afterfxllc@aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc@aol.com) > > > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:07 PM > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru/601 FWF Seminar This Past Weekend > > > They need to have a "HOW TO MAKE YOUR JAB RUN COOL" seminar. > > Seems like everyone I talk to with a jab in a 601 has overheating problems, > > I just wonder if it is an engine problem more than a baffle problem. My > friend is trying to get his 601 to me to look at about this but I told him > I want > to tare down the complete engine and check to see how close the tolerances > are from one cylinder to the next. > > > Jeff > > > In a message dated 11/19/2007 12:48:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > david.m.gallagher@ge.com writes: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" > > Jabiru held a very informative Zenith 601/Jabiru FWF seminar this past > weekend at the Jabiru USA facility in TN. I had a good time and got to mee > t some > fellow Matronic's posters there. My thanks to seminar leaders, Pete Krotje > > and Mark Stauffer, who were very patient with us as well as Don Guice, who' > s > airplane we used as the guinea pig. Jon Croke was also there filming for a > n > updated Homebuilt Help 101 video on this topic. One of the things I was > interested in seeing was the dual throttle set-up. The latest ZAC firewall > > design requires some slight modifications in the way the cross-rod installa > tion > is performed on the top shelf. Nothing major, but you have to work around > the > front shelf L-brackets and the U-channel on the back side. Look for > updates from Jabiru in the near future. We also went over the new oil cool > er > installation. I understand that new instructions hit the Jabiru web site j > ust > last week. Attached are a few pictures I took during the class as well ! > as a shot of Don and his airplane loaded into a 30' Penske truck. > > -------- > David Gallagher > 601 XL, tail and wings completed, > fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147134#147134 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_72_305.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_seminar_53_131.jpg > http://forums.matronsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for > > -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS > ==================== > > > ____________________________________ > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre > f="h > ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http > ://f > orums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.co > m/Na > vigator?Zenith-List > .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ____________________________________ > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > List Admin. to rchive much st > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics > .com/Navigator?Zenith-List -= --> > _http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) === > ======== > > > ____________________________________ > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre > f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref > ="http:// > forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) > (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest > > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:16:40 PM PST US > From: Art Olechowski > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin > > > I think my post was not clear enough. The gap I've experienced is in between the > tip of the upper > and lower nose ribs and the LE of the skin. If you look cross sectionally down > the leading edge > of the nose skin light can be seen between the apex of both rib tips and the nose > skin. I'm not > seeing a how shim can work in this senario since the tip of the rib flange is tapered > at the nose > and no rivets exist in that area to fasten the shim too? > > --- Paul Riedlinger wrote: > > > > > Art: > > > > I had the opposite problem on one of my wings. The inboard 4 ribs for > > the wing walk were centered on the top of the skin but when I flipped > > the wing over, the ribs were recessed by about 3/32" so that when > > rivitted, the skin would be pulled concave. I added a small shim > > between the rib and the skin to correct the issue and make it look > > better. Drove me crazy. I must have gotten a Monday AM 601XL wing > > kit as the top rear skins were drilled wrong as well. > > > > Oh well, nothing a little fiddling cant fix! > > > > On Nov 20, 2007 5:54 PM, LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > > > > Art, > > > If you have an inability to pull a cleco down to close a gap without > > > getting a dimple, a shim can be made the thickness > > > you need and taped in place. If I understood your problem, the thin > > > punched shim would hold the material > > > where you want without that dented look that some pulled rivets cause > > > for uneven surfaces. > > > > > > Larry > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > Art Olechowski wrote: > > > > > > > > Larry, > > > > Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib flange > holes aft of > > the > > > > spar? > > > > > > > > Art > > > > --- LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> Art, > > > >> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly. > > > >> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and > > > >> cleco check the result. > > > >> > > > >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > >> > > > >> Art Olechowski wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >>> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled > the holes through > > > >>> > > > >> spar > > > >> > > > >>> and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside > of the skin. But > > > >>> > > > >> when I > > > >> > > > >>> overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both > nose ribs contain > > > >>> > > > >> about a > > > >> > > > >>> 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled in > flanges. Have any > > of > > > >>> > > > >> you > > > >> > > > >>> experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations? > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Thanks, > > > >>> Art > > > >>> 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Paul Riedlinger > > cndmovn@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:34:05 PM PST US > From: Dan > Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Build Time > > > I checked my logbook and the firewall forward took me about 90 hours. I > did not break out the other individual construction times. Of course > there was a lot of time that I did not record. This is what I called > stupid time, ie - well you screwed that up what are going to do now stupid. > > Dan Wilde > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:55:11 PM PST US > From: LarryMcFarland > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 4130N-or-not-N > > > Phil, > Normalizing is done to get the best condition for machining. > Annealing is done to get the ductility and condition for stamping or > bending. > The usual normalized 4130 is the preferred condition for use in aircraft > construction and > may be the best for welding to avoid overheating the material. > I'd be inclined to want to know what were the differences in yield > strength for these metals from Aircraft Spruce. > Normalizing is one condition and Annealing is multiple possible conditions. > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > Flydog1966@aol.com wrote: > > So why is it getting hard to find 4130 N ? > > I just received my order for some 4130 N (thin sheet, from ACS.) and > > one of the sheets is AMS 6350 j. > > After a little research I find that this is in the annealed condition. > > A call to ACS and I find that they will occasionally substitute this > > for the normalized stock. > > Zenith has changed there 701 dwgs ,dropping the "N" from the > > material description,compared to the older dwgs. > > So is it OK to use annealed ? > > Phil Day > > scrapbuilder > > 701 > > do not archive > > > > * > > > > * > > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:25:46 PM PST US > From: Ron Lalonde > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build > > Hi Dave > Are you back to scratchbuilding?? > Sure would love to see you back up and running. > Going to go to your building site as soon as this message is sent. > Ron > Debert, Nova Scotia, Canada > > > > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cost of scratch build versus kit build> From: d > claytx2@HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:13:29 -0800> To: zenith-list > mail.com>> > If you can find a local supplier for your aluminum you can sav > e even more money. I'm fortunate to have a Trident Metals one hour away. I > purchased two 4X12 sheets of .025 last week for $60 each with no shipping c > harges. Aircraft Spruce currently charges $108 per sheet plus shipping. Scr > atch building does take more time, for sure, but its a heck of a lot cheape > r. Its also a pretty nice feeling to be able to say "I made every part by h > and". Having said that...a kit would be my preference if money were not a f > actor.> > Dave Clay> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums. > ========================> _ > ======================> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself with free Messenger emoticons. Get them today! > http://www.freemessengeremoticons.ca/?icid=EMENCA122 > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:55:35 PM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hello all... > From: "Joshua" > > > Thanks for all of your replies. I'll leave the 24" brake alone and just build a > Dave Clay brake. > I've been in and around a lot of lists and I must say this one is tops. There is > just so much info and support available its amazing. I had completely dismissed > aluminum construction after researching the Bearhawk last year because it > just seemed so complicated and beyond my abilities. After spending the last few > months studying Zenith planes I feel like I could practically build my 701 with > just the information available on-line! > It will be a while but I cant wait to get started. > Thanks again. I'll be back! > Joshua > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147621#147621 > > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:45:45 PM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Free forming sheet metal > From: "Ron Lendon" > > > Yes softer metal is normally used, but all I had was the 6061-T6 and I wanted to > give it a try. > > -------- > Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI > Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) > http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147631#147631 > > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:45:45 PM PST US > From: Andrew Hinsdale > Subject: Zenith-List: Glass Panels > > > Hello Listers! > > Does anyone out there run JUST an EFIS, or does > everyone have "backup" steam gauges? I am primarily > interested in the EFIS for its overall simplicity and > potential weight savings - but the need for "backups" > could erode that very quickly. > > Thanks > Andy Hinsdale > > > Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you > with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ > > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:01:28 PM PST US > From: "Paul Riedlinger" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin > > > I don't think that is an issue at all. No amount of wind force is > going to make that skin move. > > I would just leave it. > > On Nov 20, 2007 8:15 PM, Art Olechowski wrote: > > > > I think my post was not clear enough. The gap I've experienced is in between > the tip of the upper > > and lower nose ribs and the LE of the skin. If you look cross sectionally down > the leading edge > > of the nose skin light can be seen between the apex of both rib tips and the > nose skin. I'm not > > seeing a how shim can work in this senario since the tip of the rib flange is > tapered at the nose > > and no rivets exist in that area to fasten the shim too? > > > > --- Paul Riedlinger wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Art: > > > > > > I had the opposite problem on one of my wings. The inboard 4 ribs for > > > the wing walk were centered on the top of the skin but when I flipped > > > the wing over, the ribs were recessed by about 3/32" so that when > > > rivitted, the skin would be pulled concave. I added a small shim > > > between the rib and the skin to correct the issue and make it look > > > better. Drove me crazy. I must have gotten a Monday AM 601XL wing > > > kit as the top rear skins were drilled wrong as well. > > > > > > Oh well, nothing a little fiddling cant fix! > > > > > > On Nov 20, 2007 5:54 PM, LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > > > > > > Art, > > > > If you have an inability to pull a cleco down to close a gap without > > > > getting a dimple, a shim can be made the thickness > > > > you need and taped in place. If I understood your problem, the thin > > > > punched shim would hold the material > > > > where you want without that dented look that some pulled rivets cause > > > > for uneven surfaces. > > > > > > > > Larry > > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > Art Olechowski wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Larry, > > > > > Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib > flange holes aft of > > > the > > > > > spar? > > > > > > > > > > Art > > > > > --- LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Art, > > > > >> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly. > > > > >> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and > > > > >> cleco check the result. > > > > >> > > > > >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > > >> > > > > >> Art Olechowski wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled > the holes through > > > > >>> > > > > >> spar > > > > >> > > > > >>> and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside > of the skin. But > > > > >>> > > > > >> when I > > > > >> > > > > >>> overlapped the nose skin on top the rear skin and clecoed in place both > nose ribs contain > > > > >>> > > > > >> about a > > > > >> > > > > >>> 1.5mm gap in between the skin. Both ribs have all the holes drilled > in flanges. Have any > > > of > > > > >>> > > > > >> you > > > > >> > > > > >>> experienced this and if so whats are the resolutions or recommendations? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Thanks, > > > > >>> Art > > > > >>> 701 Scratch builder .0005% Complete > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Paul Riedlinger > > > cndmovn@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Paul Riedlinger > cndmovn@gmail.com > > > ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:24:42 PM PST US > From: craig@craigandjean.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Glass Panels > > > I'm backing up my EFIS (MGL Enigma) with an MGL Flight 2. I went with > an EFIS to get rid of mechanical gauges so why bring them back as a > back-up? The Flight 2 can be powered from Enigma's "secure" supply > (primary and secondary batteries) or, if I am really paranoid, will run > from a 9 volt battery for more than an hour. In a 3.5 inch package it > provides (among other things): > > * Altimeter (-700ft to >40.000ft range) > * Airspeed indicator (16-250 mph range) > * Analog VSI (+/-1600 ft/min range) > * Digital VSI (+/-10.000 ft/min range) > * Automatic flight duration timer > * Real time clock for local time and flight log use > * Engine RPM gauge, programmable for different engine types > * Density altimeter > * Barometer (actual local pressure) > * True airspeed (TAS display) > * Stopwatch > > www.mglavionics.co.za/Docs/flight2.pdf > > -- Craig > > > ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:32:54 PM PST US > From: "Brad Cohen" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger > > > Bob, > Finally talked to ZAC and they faxed me the drawings. there are photo guide > pages for TD online. From what I can see from looking at the drawings > instead of working Monday, you will have to remove the tie down ring and > install the tail spring forward pickup on the front HT frame. is your rear > fuselage turtledeck already riveted in place? > > BJC > > > >From: "Bob Unternaehrer" > >To: > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger > >Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:57:53 -0600 > > > >My plans built fuselage I bought has the tie down ring already installed. > >i haven't started on the taildragger mods yet or studied the drawings. > >Wonder if I've got a lot to change. Bob U. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Sewell > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:44 AM > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Taildragger > > > > > > Brad, > > > > As I remember, the only change on the bottom rear fuselage assembly had > >to do with the lower rudder hinge plate. You don't drill the center hole > >for the rear tie down eye bolt. The more significant changes start when > >you begin work on the forward fuselage floor. > > > > Take a look at my web site for some pictures. > > > > http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/082804.htm > > http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Rear_Fuselage/090204.htm > > > > http://n601bz.com/ch601xl/Fuselage/Cabin_Floor/092904a.htm > > > > Bill Sewell > > N601BZ > > > > > > On 11/19/07, Brad Cohen wrote: > > > > I was just getting started on the rear fuselage when a cold chill ran > >down > > my spine, I realized that the blueprints I was folliowing were for the > > tricycle version. A quick check revealed that I didn't receive the TD > > blueprint page with the parts shipment. > > > > Thankfully I have not progressed too far. (just now installing the > >bottom > > skin l-angles.) How soon do I need to start considering the > >taildragger > > specific changes? the photo guide is really not too clear on when to > >make > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:54:54 PM PST US > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Scratchbuilding Tools > From: "mosquito56" > > > Recieved my Olfa knives in less than 24 hrs from shopkitchenworld.ca. They were > 10.48 each. If you REALLY need em, you can find em here. I doubt I will ever > deal with them again. I had to call and give my credit card 3 times over a 10 > day period. > They work great. cut a .025 alum. sheet in 7 swipes and a snap. > Don > > -------- > Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx > Apologies if I seem antagonistic. > I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance > in this thing we call life. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147651#147651 > > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:09:05 PM PST US > From: Paul Mulwitz > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Glass Panels > > > Hi Andy, > > My plane is not done yet, so I am not really using > anything. However, my plan is to have only EFIS/EIS from Dynon with > no "Backup" gauges. I do have an LRI I built while waiting for my > wing kit, but I don't consider it a backup for the EFIS. > > The reason I don't feel a need for steam gauge backup for the EFIS is > I don't plan to fly my plane under IFR. The EFIS actually makes a > very nice and complete panel for occasional instrument flight, but > since it is a single box it would not be reasonable to depend on it > for planned IFR flying. That is because a single failure in the EFIS > could leave you with no way to fly the plane. > > In my case the EFIS is itself a backup for visual control with > outside reference. If you are planning a real IFR plane then I would > suggest you add at least a turn and bank indicator along with an > altimeter and probably airspeed for partial panel flight if the EFIS > croaks. Perhaps a GPS could be used for the altitude and speed, but > there is no way to fly in IMC without at least one gyro instrument. > > Good luck, > > Paul > XL fuselage > > > At 07:44 PM 11/20/2007, you wrote: > > > >Hello Listers! > > > >Does anyone out there run JUST an EFIS, or does > >everyone have "backup" steam gauges? I am primarily > >interested in the EFIS for its overall simplicity and > >potential weight savings - but the need for "backups" > >could erode that very quickly. > > > >Thanks > >Andy Hinsdale > > > ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:16:14 PM PST US > From: DRAGONFUEL@aol.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Glass Panels > > The Dragonfly Aviation N601BA is licensed as an ELSA and is used for flight > training for hire. We installed the Dynon EFIS 100 and EMS 120 -- ONLY, with > > no backup. We did not believe that any other back up, other than "look out > the window" was needed. Sport aircraft were designed to emulate the early > simple airplanes, such as the J-3 Cub and flown for "fun" in VFR condition. No > > gyros are required for VFR flight. The Dynons are probably overkill, but do > make flying with them almost a dream. Why try to simplify your airplane by > eliminating duplication and then add it back. Personally I believe that in > the long run the Dynons are simpler to operate, cheaper to purchase and > install, and will require less maintenance over the life of the airplane. Every > > flight instructor is supposed to teach every student pilot to fly his/her > airplane without reference to any instrument except sound and feel, and be able > to > land it safely in an emergency. Those two Dynon monitors, or a single Dynon > 180 are all you need, IMHO. > > Cheers, > > Bob Archibald > CH601XL/Lyc 125hp/Dynons/400 hrs. > Dragonfly Aviation > Santa Rosa, CA > > PS I have been a "lurker" on this list for about 2 years, work with Michael > Heintz's Quality Sport Planes in California. I have met a number of you at > various airshows and corresponded with several of you directly. I may now > post directly to this list from time to time. > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:48 AM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder Nose Skin Art, the easiest thing might be a couple of -90 degree bent strips about 1/2 inch wide & taped to each rib tip where needed. Move the strips (shims) around until satisfactory then clamp & drill the top half through the top of the rib and put one A4 rivet through the shims on top of each rib. Clear as mud? Terry Paul, I think I'll build me a new one and back drill through the existing skin holes to make it right. I agree probably does not matter either way. do not archive Art --- Paul Riedlinger wrote: > > I don't think that is an issue at all. No amount of wind force is > going to make that skin move. > > I would just leave it. > > On Nov 20, 2007 8:15 PM, Art Olechowski wrote: > > > > I think my post was not clear enough. The gap I've experienced is in between the tip of the > upper > > and lower nose ribs and the LE of the skin. If you look cross sectionally down the leading > edge > > of the nose skin light can be seen between the apex of both rib tips and the nose skin. I'm > not > > seeing a how shim can work in this senario since the tip of the rib flange is tapered at the > nose > > and no rivets exist in that area to fasten the shim too? > > > > --- Paul Riedlinger wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Art: > > > > > > I had the opposite problem on one of my wings. The inboard 4 ribs for > > > the wing walk were centered on the top of the skin but when I flipped > > > the wing over, the ribs were recessed by about 3/32" so that when > > > rivitted, the skin would be pulled concave. I added a small shim > > > between the rib and the skin to correct the issue and make it look > > > better. Drove me crazy. I must have gotten a Monday AM 601XL wing > > > kit as the top rear skins were drilled wrong as well. > > > > > > Oh well, nothing a little fiddling cant fix! > > > > > > On Nov 20, 2007 5:54 PM, LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > > > > > > Art, > > > > If you have an inability to pull a cleco down to close a gap without > > > > getting a dimple, a shim can be made the thickness > > > > you need and taped in place. If I understood your problem, the thin > > > > punched shim would hold the material > > > > where you want without that dented look that some pulled rivets cause > > > > for uneven surfaces. > > > > > > > > Larry > > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > Art Olechowski wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Larry, > > > > > Can you elaborate some, the shims would attach to which holes? the rib flange holes aft > of > > > the > > > > > spar? > > > > > > > > > > Art > > > > > --- LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Art, > > > > >> One solution is pre-drilled shims taped in place before assembly. > > > > >> Been there and done that on rib height, but you have to be careful and > > > > >> cleco check the result. > > > > >> > > > > >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > > >> > > > > >> Art Olechowski wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> He all I have a dilemma with my nose skin on the rudder. When I drilled the holes > through > > > > >>> > > > > >> spar > > > > >> > > > > >>> and nose skin I confirmed that both nose rib tips were flush with inside of the skin. --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:18 AM PST US From: "John M. Goodings" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Turtle Deck Some of us use the term "turtle deck" for the top skin running back from the cowl to the panel (not the fuselage top skins behind the cockpit). The cowl on the front makes it look more like a turtle. This usage came to me from Zenair, first in Nobleton and then in Midland, Ontario. Do I have to change now!??? DO NOT ARCHIVE. John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa, Toronto/Waterloo. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:24 AM PST US From: Scott Laughlin Subject: Zenith-List: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! Happy Thanksgiving Everyone. Besides a beautiful wife and some great kids I now have something else to b e thankful for. As of yesterday, the FAA considers N5SL an airworthy vehic le. The certificate arrived along with the first day of snow and winter. First flight will depend on how the weather shapes up in the coming days. Have a great day, Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ 601XL/Corvair _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE ! http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_1120 07 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:34 AM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! Way to go, Scott. If the FAA had thought otherwise, I would have been shocked...and tempted to put down my building tools! Congratulations on a very special day. Keep the camera rolling when your bird takes flight. Larry Winger 601XL/Corvair Tustin, CA On Nov 22, 2007 8:45 AM, Scott Laughlin wrote: > Happy Thanksgiving Everyone. > > Besides a beautiful wife and some great kids I now have something else to > be thankful for. As of yesterday, the FAA considers N5SL an airworthy > vehicle. The certificate arrived along with the first day of snow and > winter. First flight will depend on how the weather shapes up in the coming > days. > > Have a great day, > > Scott Laughlin > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ > 601XL/Corvair > > ------------------------------ > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now! > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:18 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! Congratulations, Scott! Happy Thanksgiving! Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, Tail done, wings done, working on c-section _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Laughlin Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:46 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! Happy Thanksgiving Everyone. Besides a beautiful wife and some great kids I now have something else to be thankful for. As of yesterday, the FAA considers N5SL an airworthy vehicle. The certificate arrived along with the first day of snow and winter. First flight will depend on how the weather shapes up in the coming days. Have a great day, Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ 601XL/Corvair _____ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:35 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! Scott - A great big CONGRATULATIONS !! You'd better get "high behind" 'cause I know how quickly Omaha can get knee deep in white stuff in the Winter. Jay in Dallas Scott Laughlin wrote: >Happy Thanksgiving Everyone. > >Besides a beautiful wife and some great kids I now have something else to be thankful for. As of yesterday, the FAA considers N5SL an airworthy vehicle. The certificate arrived along with the first day of snow and winter. First flight will depend on how the weather shapes up in the coming days. > >Have a great day, > >Scott Laughlin >http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ >601XL/Corvair > >_________________________________________________________________ >Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE! >http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007 > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:59 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! Congratulations, Scott! I love hearing success stories--there is light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck with your flight test. Terry do not archive At 10:45 AM 11/22/2007 -0600, you wrote: >Happy Thanksgiving Everyone. > >Besides a beautiful wife and some great kids I now have something else to >be thankful for. As of yesterday, the FAA considers N5SL an airworthy >vehicle. The certificate arrived along with the first day of snow and >winter. First flight will depend on how the weather shapes up in the >coming days. > >Have a great day, > >Scott Laughlin >http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ >601XL/Corvair Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! From: "rroberts" Congrats Scott ! ! -------- Low & Slow Rick www.n701rr.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147951#147951 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:03 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! From: "eddies" Congratulations Scott, It must be a great feeling, I'm looking forward to hearing you first flight report. Eddie Seve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147958#147958 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:13 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! From: "Geoff Heap" Congratulations Scott. Time to start building again? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147965#147965 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:39 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. From: "Geoff Heap" I could use some advice or comment. Over the years, as I built my airframe I primed everything just before riveting/assembly. With the knowledge I have now that seems dumb. With the battery behind the passenger seat how can I ground it back there. All airframe parts are isolated from each other electrically. Will the rivets help me out? Would they give me the continuity I need? Do I need to run a ground wire all the way back to the engine block? Lost in Lindenwold 912/dynon 180/icom-a210/garmin 296. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147968#147968 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:18 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. Hi Geoff, The short answer is to run two cables from the battery to the engine compartment - positive and negative leads from the battery. Then build your single point ground at the firewall some place. Many people think using the aluminum structure for electrical ground is a problem anyway. I think it is good for some things but not everything. I wouldn't run the main starter circuit (the one with the heavy cables) through the skin. However, I chose to run the return (ground) from my strobe light supplies through the wing structures. For me it is a matter of how much current is involved and how often and how hard it switches. I don't think the rivets would do a great job of connecting everything electrically. If you want to know for sure you can use an ohm-meter (one of the functions on a cheap multimeter) to measure the resistance between any two points of interest. Have fun, Paul XL fuselage Retired electrical engineer At 01:11 PM 11/22/2007, you wrote: > >I could use some advice or comment. Over the years, as I built my >airframe I primed everything just before riveting/assembly. With the >knowledge I have now that seems dumb. With the battery behind the >passenger seat how can I ground it back there. All airframe parts >are isolated from each other electrically. Will the rivets help me >out? Would they give me the continuity I need? Do I need to run a >ground wire all the way back to the engine block? > Lost in Lindenwold > >912/dynon 180/icom-a210/garmin 296. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:36 PM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! Congratulations Scott ,another job well done with the Laughlin's in action . Have a happy Thanksgiving Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Laughlin To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 10:45 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Happy Thanksgiving - It's a Bird! Happy Thanksgiving Everyone. Besides a beautiful wife and some great kids I now have something else to be thankful for. As of yesterday, the FAA considers N5SL an airworthy vehicle. The certificate arrived along with the first day of snow and winter. First flight will depend on how the weather shapes up in the coming days. Have a great day, Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ 601XL/Corvair ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:18 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. From: "Tim Juhl" The idea of running two cables and having a common ground point is a good one. That said, the large number of rivets used in your plane's construction should provide ample continuity for ground return for lights, strobes, etc. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147976#147976 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:20 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. Geoff, I don't think you have a lot to worry about if you have but a small amount of sandpaper or Scotch Brite. The link below shows the tray and base I used to get a ground via the cross support. Probably a dozen rivets involved, but you see the ground for both batteries and I've never had any difficulty with the back feed or connections. Much easier to change batteries this way as well. check out the link. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/electrical/full/chargebatteryconnection.gif Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Geoff Heap wrote: > > I could use some advice or comment. Over the years, as I built my airframe I primed everything just before riveting/assembly. With the knowledge I have now that seems dumb. With the battery behind the passenger seat how can I ground it back there. All airframe parts are isolated from each other electrically. Will the rivets help me out? Would they give me the continuity I need? Do I need to run a ground wire all the way back to the engine block? > Lost in Lindenwold > > 912/dynon 180/icom-a210/garmin 296. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147968#147968 > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:14 PM PST US From: "Dave Thompson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Elevator Control Friction Looking for outlook and opinions. For the last year or so as I pour over my 601ZL plans, I have wondered about the nylon fairleads and control cables "bending" and rubbing through them. I'm by no means any kind of engineer. In fact, I'm not even building yet. However, it seems to me that a better way would be to use a pulley to "bend" or re-route the cables to the required positions. Any other airframe plans that I've studied uses pulleys rather than nylon fairleads. Guys that have some hours on their airframe: Do you see any notable wear on the nylon fairleads? Specifically, the rudder fairlead and upper elevator fairlead attached to 6B5-2 on page 6-B-23 of the plans. I have not seen the actual cables installed in an airframe so I might be looking for troubles that are not there. The link to the pulley modification on previous links looks interesting and is something like I had envisioned. Would pulleys be overkill? Am I trying to re-invent a wheel that rolls just fine? What are your opinions? Dave Thompson Corvair engine in parts & rudder workshop No money to build.Yet ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:56 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. I ran 2 wires and grounded to the engine Mount. My battery is also behind the seat. I don't like the idea of using the airframe as the main grounding point. If the plane didn't have a starter it would be fine but it does so I think 2 wires is the way to go. This was a rough pic of the battery and not finished but you get the idea. In a message dated 11/22/2007 4:12:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, stol10@comcast.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" I could use some advice or comment. Over the years, as I built my airframe I primed everything just before riveting/assembly. With the knowledge I have now that seems dumb. With the battery behind the passenger seat how can I ground it back there. All airframe parts are isolated from each other electrically. Will the rivets help me out? Would they give me the continuity I need? Do I need to run a ground wire all the way back to the engine block? Lost in Lindenwold 912/dynon 180/icom-a210/garmin 296. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147968#147968 **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:29 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. You should run a separate ground cable from the battery negative terminal to the engine block. Don't rely on the chassis ground to carry the starting current to the engine. On my plane, my battery is behind the passenger seat. I have a 4 gauge wire from the negative terminal to a brass bolt passing though the firewall. On the front side of the firewall a 4 gauge wire continues from the brass bolt to the engine block. I also have a common grounding terminal block at the point where the brass bolt passes through the firewall. I got the brass bolt and terminal block from B & C Specialty Products. Geoff Heap wrote: > > I could use some advice or comment. Over the years, as I built my airframe I primed everything just before riveting/assembly. With the knowledge I have now that seems dumb. With the battery behind the passenger seat how can I ground it back there. All airframe parts are isolated from each other electrically. Will the rivets help me out? Would they give me the continuity I need? Do I need to run a ground wire all the way back to the engine block? > Lost in Lindenwold > > 912/dynon 180/icom-a210/garmin 296. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147968#147968 > > > > > > > > > > > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:15 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. You should run a separate ground cable from the battery negative terminal to the engine block. Don't rely on the chassis ground to carry the starting current to the engine. On my plane, my battery is behind the passenger seat. I have a 4 gauge wire from the negative terminal to a brass bolt passing though the firewall. On the front side of the firewall, a 4 gauge wire continues from the brass bolt to the engine block. I also have a common grounding terminal block at the point where the brass bolt passes through the firewall. Most of my ground wires connect to this terminal block. I got the brass bolt and terminal block from B & C Specialty Products. Geoff Heap wrote: > > I could use some advice or comment. Over the years, as I built my airframe I primed everything just before riveting/assembly. With the knowledge I have now that seems dumb. With the battery behind the passenger seat how can I ground it back there. All airframe parts are isolated from each other electrically. Will the rivets help me out? Would they give me the continuity I need? Do I need to run a ground wire all the way back to the engine block? > Lost in Lindenwold > > 912/dynon 180/icom-a210/garmin 296. > > > -- Bryan Martin Zenith 601XL N61BM Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:40 PM PST US From: "Gary Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Elevator Control Friction Dave My fairleads are very close to being in the line of travel for the cables and I am not seeing wear. The highest point of friction in the control system that I experienced was at the lower nose wheel bearing block. Initially it had a clamping pressure that interfered with the rudder action since the nose wheel steering is connected to the rudder pedals. I found that a thin shim of 0.025 between the left and right halves was needed to free up the motion. I can still feel it while in the air but it is not very irritating because once centered the 601XL does not require much attention to the rudder to keep the ball centered during normal flight. I expect with time I will get the extra 1/1000 inch as wear and it will then be a non issue. I would suggest everybody elevate the nose wheel and try the rudder pedal action before flight. Gary Ray 601XL 58 hours TT ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Thompson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 6:44 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Elevator Control Friction Looking for outlook and opinions. For the last year or so as I pour over my 601ZL plans, I have wondered about the nylon fairleads and control cables "bending" and rubbing through them. I'm by no means any kind of engineer. In fact, I'm not even building yet. However, it seems to me that a better way would be to use a pulley to "bend" or re-route the cables to the required positions. Any other airframe plans that I've studied uses pulleys rather than nylon fairleads. Guys that have some hours on their airframe: Do you see any notable wear on the nylon fairleads? Specifically, the rudder fairlead and upper elevator fairlead attached to 6B5-2 on page 6-B-23 of the plans. I have not seen the actual cables installed in an airframe so I might be looking for troubles that are not there. The link to the pulley modification on previous links looks interesting and is something like I had envisioned. Would pulleys be overkill? Am I trying to re-invent a wheel that rolls just fine? What are your opinions? Dave Thompson Corvair engine in parts & rudder workshop No money to build.Yet ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:02 PM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: PROBLEM. Electrical Grounding with a primed airframe. Hey Geoff, I'm going to go a little farther than everyone else in saying, run a groundwire for everything. Don't rely on the airframe for grounding at all. Yes this is more work now but it is still easier than trying to track down a bad ground somewhere later on. It is especially important to ground the strobes well as this will help eliminate the zot, zot, zot in your headset as they run. Personally, I have a bunch of the buss bar terminal strips that Wicks sells on order. I am going to have a power buss and a return buss for everything. Of course I'm only building a day/night VFR equipped CH-701 so the additional weight of the extra grouond wire should not be excessive. If someone were building a more complicated panel they might want to save the weight. But if that were the case, ,they would also be looking for the redundancy as well. Maybe I'm a little paranoid about the grounding issues but I chase electrons for a living and they can be tricky little devils at times. Best of luck with your project. Doug MacDonald Industrial Electronics Tech. CH-701 Scratch Builder Fuse on gear, working on wings NW Ontario, Canada. Do Not Archive > I could use some advice or comment. Over the > years, as I built my airframe I primed everything > just before riveting/assembly. With the knowledge I > have now that seems dumb. With the battery behind > the passenger seat how can I ground it back there. > All airframe parts are isolated from each other > electrically. Will the rivets help me out? Would > they give me the continuity I need? Do I need to run > a ground wire all the way back to the engine block? > > Lost in Lindenwold > > > > 912/dynon 180/icom-a210/garmin 296. > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:38 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc From: "RayStL" C-GJRL finally flew yesterday. It has in-flight adjustable prop. I had done a crow hop on Sunday with the prop at min pitch and flaps up. That required full back stick to flare with no margin. The min pitch was way too fine the engine was not being loaded at all and the plane barely hauled itself off the ground. For the flight yesterday, I set the pitch to midway and took off with half flaps (nominally 15 degrees). That was a much better setting. It climbed well. I was pleased with the lightness of the controls and their balance. Used half flaps for landing as recommend for the Pegastol wing. The landing was easily controllable with plenty of stick margin on the flare. The aircraft trimmed way too nose down even with max aft trim. It is true that I was near the forward C of G and the forward limit for the Pegastol is set at 10% of Mean Aerodynamic Chord as opposed the standard 701 which is a 20%. Regardless I will be doing the elevator edge bend removal that others have found useful in these situations. I am waiting for better weather to fly again. I am in New Brunswick, Canada which had freezing rain today and snow flurries forecast for tomorrow. Sigh. -- Ray -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148010#148010 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tied_down_132.gif ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:22 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Elevator Control Friction Hi, Dave! I, too, had my initial misgivings about the stone-simple method of routing control cables through nylon blocks, but it's turned out to be a brilliantly simple way of doing things. Unlike Dr. Ray, I haven't had any binding issues at all with the rudder. My airplane now has roughly 95 hours on it since it was completed, and the controls feel pretty much the same as they did during those first flights just over a year ago. After owning quite a few airplanes with much more complex control systems, it's actually a bit of a relief to fly around in something so straightforward and basic as the 601XL with the Corvair engine. My advice? Find something better to worry about. ;-) Rick Lindstrom N42KP -----Original Message----- >From: Dave Thompson >Sent: Nov 22, 2007 3:44 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Elevator Control Friction > >Looking for outlook and opinions. > > > >For the last year or so as I pour over my 601ZL plans, I have wondered about >the nylon fairleads and control cables "bending" and rubbing through them. >I'm by no means any kind of engineer. In fact, I'm not even building yet. >However, it seems to me that a better way would be to use a pulley to "bend" >or re-route the cables to the required positions. Any other airframe plans >that I've studied uses pulleys rather than nylon fairleads. > > > >Guys that have some hours on their airframe: > > > >Do you see any notable wear on the nylon fairleads? Specifically, the rudder >fairlead and upper elevator fairlead attached to 6B5-2 on page 6-B-23 of the >plans. > > > >I have not seen the actual cables installed in an airframe so I might be >looking for troubles that are not there. The link to the pulley modification >on previous links looks interesting and is something like I had envisioned. >Would pulleys be overkill? Am I trying to re-invent a wheel that rolls just >fine? > > > >What are your opinions? > > > >Dave Thompson > >Corvair engine in parts & rudder workshop > >No money to build.Yet > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:52 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc From: "kmccune" Congrats on the first flight! I am just starting but I am pretty much sold on th 1.3l Suzi, for the price VS claimed performance. Any comments regarding this on your plane? I am also considering the wing that you are using but initial inquiries are looking to be a little expensive. And as such, I also would be interested in your STOL and cruise specs. Best Regards Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148016#148016 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:11 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods. From: "Dave Nixon" I am just about 3 weeks away from hanging the wings, and when I do, it will be with an aileron push rod system. I already have the rod and ends. I had two left hand thread and two right hand thread rod ends milled for 1/4" bolts. if anyone is interested, I can send pictures of the installation. I am just finishing up the engine installation. then I can finish the canopy and finally install the wings. Then call for Airworthiness inspection. Should be done by the end of the year, if progress continues at the current pace. Dave Nixon CH601XL Jabiru 3300 90% done / 90% To Go Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148017#148017 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.