Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:13 AM - [Please Read] What are "The Lists" and Who's This Matt Dralle? (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:17 AM - Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc (kmccune)
2. 03:34 AM - Re: New "Tachometer" (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
3. 04:19 AM - Re: Fuel tank sealing (ashontz)
4. 04:28 AM - Re: 701 backup electric pump (Geoff Heap)
5. 04:59 AM - Re: Another Chat Room (Rob St Denis)
6. 05:11 AM - Re: Re: Fuel tank sealing (Trainnut01@aol.com)
7. 06:12 AM - Re: Re: Fuel sender gasket (Carl)
8. 06:27 AM - Re: Fuel tank sealing (ashontz)
9. 07:36 AM - Re: Re: Fuel tank sealing (Jaybannist@cs.com)
10. 07:37 AM - Re: Header Tank Wanted (Doug Eatman)
11. 07:59 AM - Re: Fuel tank sealing (ashontz)
12. 09:07 AM - Re: Header Tank Wanted (Gig Giacona)
13. 09:13 AM - flap and aileron hinges (ashontz)
14. 09:31 AM - Galvanic chart (ashontz)
15. 12:46 PM - Re: Proseal fuel tanks (ashontz)
16. 12:58 PM - Re: Proseal fuel tanks (ashontz)
17. 01:05 PM - Re: Roll over protection (ashontz)
18. 01:20 PM - Re: of wrath and rants... (ashontz)
19. 01:25 PM - 601XL Tanks and Dynon Fuel Pickups (Dave Nixon)
20. 01:44 PM - Re: 601XL Tanks and Dynon Fuel Pickups (John Davis)
21. 02:04 PM - Re: 601XL Tanks and Dynon Fuel Pickups (george may)
22. 02:09 PM - Re: Galvanic chart (Gordon)
23. 02:24 PM - Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc (RayStL)
24. 02:38 PM - Re: Roll over protection (Gig Giacona)
25. 03:07 PM - Re: CH701 Strut Covers (j. davis)
26. 03:13 PM - plans fo CH701 amphib floats (Tom Flanagan)
27. 03:27 PM - Re: Re: of wrath and rants... (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
28. 03:43 PM - Re: of wrath and rants... (ashontz)
29. 04:42 PM - 601 XL 15 gal. fuel tanks. (steve)
30. 05:24 PM - Re: CH701 Strut Covers (John Marzulli)
31. 05:25 PM - Re: ground school (Tim Juhl)
32. 05:30 PM - Re: 601 XL 15 gal. fuel tanks. (Tim Juhl)
33. 05:52 PM - Re: Re: 601 XL 15 gal. fuel tanks. (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
34. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: of wrath and rants... (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
35. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: 601 XL 15 gal. fuel tanks. (steve)
36. 06:18 PM - Re: Re: of wrath and rants... (steve)
37. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: 601 XL 15 gal. fuel tanks. (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
38. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Roll over protection (David Downey)
39. 07:08 PM - Filling mc-5A brake system (Kenny Aron)
40. 07:27 PM - Re: Filling mc-5A brake system (Craig Payne)
41. 07:32 PM - Re: Filling mc-5A brake system (Edward Moody II)
42. 08:11 PM - Elevator trailing edge straightening (RayStL)
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| Subject: | [Please Read] What are "The Lists" and Who's This Matt Dralle? |
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in
the information technology industry for nearly 25 years primarily in computer
networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web
development and CGI design during that time, along with some embedded system
development as well.
I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders
from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft
related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such
as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here
locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter,
a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial-grade business T1 Internet
connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers found here include a quad-processor Xeon Linux server for
List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to the email processing
List functions, and another P4 Linux system serving as a remote storage
disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based
backup system with 3.2 Terra Bytes of storage! This entire system is protected
by three large, commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply (UPS) systems that
assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage! Speaking
of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One
month last Summer, I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone!
I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power
feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer
Center for the Matronics Email Lists. Last year I added another rack to
house the MONSTER quad-processor web system that didn't quite fit into the first
rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center before the addition
of the second rack:
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't
support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It is
supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you...
and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running!
Won't you please take a moment to make a Contribution to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
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USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
There are some great gifts available with qualifying Contribution levels too!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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| Subject: | Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc |
I believe that the Vne is primarily a function of the wing attachment points. And
that due to the higher drag of the stock wing the 701 has a Vne of 110. If
you put a lower drag wing on the Vne would defiantly increase. But the whole 15mph
to 125. I'd doubt it, as other things on the airframe may have a Vne of 115,
like the horizontal or vertical controls( just a for instance)? These also
are important to a safe flight.
I could be all wet but I did ask this question of higher Vne to the soon to be
new MFG of the wing. He pretty much laughed at my question and politely side
stepped it after saying that he had never heard of a higher Vne for the 701 with
this wing attached
Kevin
--------
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148820#148820
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| Subject: | Re: New "Tachometer" |
Yes that is what I meant but after 12 hours of building sometimes the brain
and hands do some strange things....... Please forgive me. I just received the
first one yesterday and got excited because it looked sooo good in the
airplane. It is one nice "Tachometer"!
In a message dated 11/26/2007 11:14:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
VideoFlyer@aol.com writes:
Do you mean "Tach"....?
____________________________________
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(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealing |
I'm working with older plans I guess. Any problem with using the seem where I have
it. Is it acceptable even if I use Pro-Seal or the Flame Master stuff the
RV guys use to seal the tanks. I have plenty of material to make another couple
of tanks, I'd just rather keep moving forward. Also, my welding skills aren't
that great nor do I have access to a TIG welder for aluminum, I'd have to pay
someone. What do you guys recommend? At the moment, I'm leaning towards rivets
and sealing compound but I can easily switch direction on that if pursueded.
Currently I'm in "stop and think about it" mode on this one and am open to ideas
to making this tank accessible in the future. I'm going with the 12 gallon tanks.
If I need to get to this tank in the wing I'd like it to be as easy as possible.
What's the current thinking on two shorter leading edge skins? Is there
any good way to make the tank skin accessible with screws rather than rivets?
Drilling rivets out isn't great, but even more of a problem is the rivets through
the spar cap angle. You drill them out and then you potentially have the
back end of the rivet falling into the center section which you really can't
get to.
Ron Lendon wrote:
> Andy,
>
> My tanks are welded and the long seam is at the other end from where your seam
is. Looking at 6-K-1, dated 08/05, the long seam is up along the top on the
surface where the filler neck goes and it rests on cork against the wing spar.
It looks like you made the long seam along the upper leading edge of the wing.
>
> The welding was tricky but once I got the 3.5 lenses it got much easier. The
arc is so small (27 amps) I needed to magnify it to be able to see what was going
on.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148825#148825
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| Subject: | Re: 701 backup electric pump |
Joe. the rotax manual gives max allowable pressure. From memory I think 5 psi is
around the top end. Someone else will know it. Based on info I got from this
list when I was at this point, I have a Facet PP. from ASSCO. The engine driven
PP will pass fuel through if failed. Also, the PP can be inserted in line........Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148827#148827
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| Subject: | Re: Another Chat Room |
ya my server was on life support last night ... finally died this morn so if
ya dont mind i pointed http://chat.iahu.ca/ at your site temporarily (beats
having to change links)
On 11/26/07, George Race <mykitairplane@mrrace.com> wrote:
>
> Cant seem to get into the chat room so far this evening.
>
> I will be lurking around this chat room:
> http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
>
> George
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealing |
Andy
I'm not really recommending this to anyone because my 601 is not flying yet
and won't be for some time. I built my tanks with carbon fiber. I researched
the comparability issues as best I could because I was very concerned about
the resins dissolving after exposure to mogas, especially mogas containing
ethanol. Constructing the tanks was really easy. Initial testing was good, but
I
don't think I saved any money or any weight. At the same time I was building
the tanks for my 601 I built a smaller tank for my son's Weedhopper. That
tank has had fuel in it for over a year now and has accumulated 47 hours with
no
problems at all.
Previously I built an RV with a leaky tank. Repairing it was a bitch, and
the subsequent owner has had the problem again since. I really didn't want a
leak in the 601 tanks because they are harder to get to than the RV tanks.
Again, I'm not recommending this but it is an option.
Carroll
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel sender gasket |
You need to seal the screws but be careful. Too much on the treads and the
screws will form little balls of sealant on the end when you drive them and
those little critters end up in your tank. The only thing that saved me from
embarrassment was the fingerscreens.
Carl
701/912/amphibs/480hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: "dgardea(at)gmail.com" <dgardea@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 9:39 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel sender gasket
> <dgardea@gmail.com>
>
> Larry,
>
> Upon reading some advice posted by others on the list, I used only one of
> the rubber gaskets on the external surface of the fuel tank. When mounting
> the sender to the tank, I liberally applied fuel lube to the outside of
> the perimeter of the hole, to the both sides of the rubber gasket, and to
> each of the screws. The excess is mostly easy to wipe off after you
> compress the gasket with the screws (don't overtighten) but you may want
> to wear some latex gloves when applying the fuel lube. The fuel lube is
> available from Aircraft Spruce under the name EZ Turn, but a search there
> for fuel lube works.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave Gardea
> 601XL - finishing wings
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Dave Gardea
> 601XL - Corvair
> working on wings
> http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148130#148130
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p6140001_140.jpg
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealing |
Thanks for the info. I may just get someone to weld the tanks. That being the case
is the old design with the flange at the front OK or should I redo it before
I get too far?
Also, any ideas on a better design for getting at the tanks would be appreciated.
I think an official redesign of access to the tanks would be something that
Mark Townsend might be interested in. This list has a lot of good ideas, Zenith
can't think of everything and feedback is important to make the plane as user
friendly and popular as possible. Be interesting to see how it's done on say
a Piper Cherokee. Seems like I've seen screws on the leading edges on some GA
planes in that area of the wing and would have to assume they're for easier
access to the tanks.
The most likely scenario is not 20 years later, "Ugh, I gotta get to the tank.".
More likely a leak would show up after 4 initial flights if a leak is going
to develop. I'd rather have a way to get to the whole tank in 10 minutes rather
than an entire weekend's worth of work at best only to put it back together
and find another problem.
[quote="Trainnut01(at)aol.com"]Andy
I'm not really recommending this to anyone because my 601 is not flying yet and
won't be for some time. I built my tanks with carbon fiber. I researched the
comparability issues as best I could because I was very concerned about the
resins dissolving after exposure to mogas, especially mogas containing ethanol.
Constructing the tanks was really easy. Initial testing was good, but I
don't think I saved any money or any weight. At the same time I was building the
tanks for my 601 I built a smaller tank for my son's Weedhopper. That tank
has had fuel in it for over a year now and has accumulated 47 hours with no
problems at all.
Previously I built an RV with a leaky tank. Repairing it was a bitch, and the
subsequent owner has had the problem again since. I really didn't want a leak
in the 601 tanks because they are harder to get to than the RV tanks.
Again, I'm not recommending this but it is an option.
Carroll
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money wasters (http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148849#148849
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealing |
Andy, What you are seeing on the wing of a Cherokee IS the fuel tank. How's that
for access?
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
"ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
>
>Thanks for the info. I may just get someone to weld the tanks. That being the
case is the old design with the flange at the front OK or should I redo it before
I get too far?
>
>Also, any ideas on a better design for getting at the tanks would be appreciated.
I think an official redesign of access to the tanks would be something that
Mark Townsend might be interested in. This list has a lot of good ideas, Zenith
can't think of everything and feedback is important to make the plane as user
friendly and popular as possible. Be interesting to see how it's done on say
a Piper Cherokee. Seems like I've seen screws on the leading edges on some
GA planes in that area of the wing and would have to assume they're for easier
access to the tanks.
>
>The most likely scenario is not 20 years later, "Ugh, I gotta get to the tank.".
More likely a leak would show up after 4 initial flights if a leak is going
to develop. I'd rather have a way to get to the whole tank in 10 minutes rather
than an entire weekend's worth of work at best only to put it back together
and find another problem.
>
>[quote="Trainnut01(at)aol.com"]Andy
> I'm not really recommending this to anyone because my 601 is not flying yet
and won't be for some time. I built my tanks with carbon fiber. I researched the
comparability issues as best I could because I was very concerned about the
resins dissolving after exposure to mogas, especially mogas containing ethanol.
Constructing the tanks was really easy. Initial testing was good, but I
don't think I saved any money or any weight. At the same time I was building
the tanks for my 601 I built a smaller tank for my son's Weedhopper. That tank
has had fuel in it for over a year now and has accumulated 47 hours with no
problems at all.
> Previously I built an RV with a leaky tank. Repairing it was a bitch, and the
subsequent owner has had the problem again since. I really didn't want a leak
in the 601 tanks because they are harder to get to than the RV tanks.
> Again, I'm not recommending this but it is an option.
> Carroll
>
>
>Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money wasters (http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
>
>> [b]
>
>
>--------
>Andy Shontz
>CH601XL - Corvair
>www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148849#148849
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Header Tank Wanted |
John,
Here's a summary of the input of several builders.
Advantages of big header tank: simpler, lighter, cheaper
Disadvantages of big header tank:
The welded tanks are prone to pinhole leaks (two builders offered me their new
tanks that had leaks), which would end up directly in the cabin.
Spills during fueling seep in and make the cabin smell of fuel.
Cable routing through the firewall becomes trickier.
You could not mount the Corvair ignition components on the inside of the firewall.
The tank mounting shown in the HD/HDS is not very applicable to the XL due to different
panel geometry.
Several panels of the factory header are only 0.025, which is of questionable crashworthiness.
Depth behind the panel is greatly reduced, a standard Icom A200 will no longer
fit.
I observed the 16 gal header to also be much deeper than expected, right down to
the rudder pedals, so if gravity flow at high alpha turned out to be marginal
in ground tests you'd be right back to the $1000 MA3 or Ellison carb and fuel
pumps (which work very well, but were the costs I was trying to avoid in the
first place).
None of the disadvantages are total show stoppers, it could work very well. If
there were a tough racecar style plastic fuel cell on the market that mounted
shallower (like in the Sonex) I'd go with the header, but mostly the leak/crack
potential of the Zenith 16 gal tank scares me. I hope this comparison was
helpful for your decision.
-Doug E
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank sealing |
Yeah, I was just looking online at someone's project site about how they spent
their summer vacation resealing a wet-wing tank on a Grumman.
I guess the best deal is, make a seperate tank, install it, make the leading edge
skins in sections (maybe two sections) and add another access panel under behind
the main spar so that if the leading edge skin covering the tank has to
come off at least I can vacuum the chips and drilled out pop rivet backs out from
behind the main spar.
[quote="Jaybannist(at)cs.com"]Andy, What you are seeing on the wing of a Cherokee
IS the fuel tank. How's that for access?
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
"ashontz" wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the info. I may just get someone to weld the tanks. That being the
case is the old design with the flange at the front OK or should I redo it before
I get too far?
>
> Also, any ideas on a better design for getting at the tanks would be appreciated.
I think an official redesign of access to the tanks would be something that
Mark Townsend might be interested in. This list has a lot of good ideas, Zenith
can't think of everything and feedback is important to make the plane as
user friendly and popular as possible. Be interesting to see how it's done on
say a Piper Cherokee. Seems like I've seen screws on the leading edges on some
GA planes in that area of the wing and would have to assume they're for easier
access to the tanks.
>
> The most likely scenario is not 20 years later, "Ugh, I gotta get to the tank.".
More likely a leak would show up after 4 initial flights if a leak is going
to develop. I'd rather have a way to get to the whole tank in 10 minutes rather
than an entire weekend's worth of work at best only to put it back together
and find another problem.
>
>
> Trainnut01(at)aol.com wrote:
> > Andy
> > I'm not really recommending this to anyone because my 601 is not flying yet
and won't be for some time. I built my tanks with carbon fiber. I researched
the comparability issues as best I could because I was very concerned about
the resins dissolving after exposure to mogas, especially mogas containing ethanol.
Constructing the tanks was really easy. Initial testing was good, but
I don't think I saved any money or any weight. At the same time I was building
the tanks for my 601 I built a smaller tank for my son's Weedhopper. That
tank has had fuel in it for over a year now and has accumulated 47 hours with
no problems at all.
> > Previously I built an RV with a leaky tank. Repairing it was a bitch, and
the subsequent owner has had the problem again since. I really didn't want a
leak in the 601 tanks because they are harder to get to than the RV tanks.
> > Again, I'm not recommending this but it is an option.
> > Carroll
> >
> >
> >
> > Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money wasters (http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
> >
> > > [b]
> >
> >
> > --------
> > Andy Shontz
> > CH601XL - Corvair
> > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148849#148849
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148862#148862
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Header Tank Wanted |
Don't forget to add to the cons list: 16 gals of fuel sitting in the cabin with
you.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148873#148873
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| Subject: | flap and aileron hinges |
The plans call for a 7' hinge for the flap. Aircraft spruce only carries them up
to 6' long. Are you guys just butting a one foot length up to a 6 foot length?
Also, should I get the stainless hinge AND stainless pin, or just the aluminum
hinge and order a seperate stainless pin?
Thanks
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148875#148875
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I just posted a subquestion in my last post about corrosion and fittings. For anyone
interested here's the galvanic chart. Obviously for really intense corrosion
to occur you need and electrolyte like salt water, but even so, humidity
can be a problem.
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Definitions/galvanic-series.htm
Generally on aluminum boats they mount a sacrificial anode of zinc.
Anyway, as far as fittings for an aluminum fuel tank, it looks like a zinc plated
fitting would be better than a brass fitting. At least if one corrodes over
time it'll be the zinc fitting which you can replace.
I'm wondering if Aircraft Spruces insanely expensive fittings are just zinc fittings.
Trying to think if I've seen regualr hose barbs and stuff at the hardware
store that were zinc. They carry lots of brass for sure. I'f anything, a zinc
fitting should be even cheaper.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148882#148882
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| Subject: | Re: Proseal fuel tanks |
I'm still going to give you a call when I get a chance, but do you have some pix
of what a tank looks like going together? I'm kind of confused as to how you
finally close the thing up and where that cover goes and how big it is. Sounds
interesting though.
[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]Another option you might want to consider is building
a WET wing Vans builds all there wing tanks this way and it really isn't
that tough. If you build a wet wing you would rivet the leading edge to the
wing then mark the leading edge about 1 inch from each rib between the tank
area then cut the leading edge add a solid rib to each side leaving about an
inch lip and a solid back with about a 2 inch lip upper and lower. You would
add a couple of ribs inside the tank for extra strength add your vent, filler
cap and sender and seal. You would then take a piece of .032 and rivet one side
to the LE that you left before cutting the tank out and add plate nuts to
the other side to attach the tank to. You would also add plate nuts to the spar
angle that the LE would have been riveted to then simply slide the tank in
and screw her down.
I wouldn't take the time to fabricate a wing tank inside something that could
already be used as a wing tank not to mention if you were to ever get a leak
the trouble you would have getting it out. You can also find rivets that we
use to repair leaking tanks that do not have a hole in the bottom of them so
when you pull them you only need to seal the base of the rivet and not the hole.
I will find out where to get these and post it. If you decide to build a
wet wing you must use a dremal tool to cut it so you don't have a huge gap. This
has been ok'd by Zenith also.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/26/2007 7:46:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bretttdc@yahoo.com
writes:
> Andy,
>
> If you are going to rivet and proseal or flame seal your tanks there can
not be any "big" gaps. All the seams need to fit tight and be riveted down
so all surfaces are touching. Of course there will be small pin holes in
the corners and tiny gaps between the joints. The sealer will fill those.
If you have large gaps of say more than 1/32 of an inch thick you should
consider another row of rivets or some other measure to close them mechanically.
Maybe you could trim back the flange and use a piece of standard "L"
to close the gap.
>
> The poly sulfide sealers form a tenacious bond between the aluminum parts.
The sealer itself is quite tough but I would not trust it to fill large
gaps. I used this construction method on my 701 tanks and believe they are
a lot stronger than the welded version made by Zenith.? I was able to incorporate
two baffles in each tank. These baffles make the tank much stronger
structurally. I did redesign the tanks making them the same size overall
but all the flanges on the ends are turned in reverse of the standard welded
tanks. This allowed me to incorporate a larger mating surface while slightly
increasing the capacity of the tank as well. If you use pop rivets
they will all have to be sealed on the exterior of the tank as well.
>
> To give yourself a little confidence in the strength of the bond you should
rivet up some test seams when you are sealing the tanks. Rivet them as
you would any other seam of the tank. Give the entire assembly several weeks
to cure, especially in cold weather. Then drill out the rivets on the test
pieces and try to break the bond of the sealer alone. You will be surprised
at how strong the sealer is. I could not separate the bond on my samples.
The aluminum tore first.
>
> You must be absolutely sure the the aluminum is clean. That means clean;
not kinda clean. I started the cleaning by scrubbing the parts in hot water
using dish washing soap then flushing with hot water. I repeated this
process three times. Then I wiped down the joints with MEK. Good idea to do
this on a sunny day if possible. I did this cleaning process after all
the fabrication and deburing had been done. Do not blow dry the parts with
compressed air because there may be a little oil mist in the spray. If needed
a blow drier or heat gun might work well. Once the parts are clean be
sure you wear latex or nitril gloves when handling the parts. The oil from
your skin could possibly cause problems in the bond. These sealers are messy
and the gloves will simplify the clean up process.
>
> I mixed mine using a 10:1 ratio of sealer to hardener. A electronic scale
works great for measuring the parts. Put the scale in a clear plastic
bag before using it and you will not need to worry about getting it dirty.
Scrap aluminum that has been cleaned makes a great mixing pallet and spatula.
Just throw it away with the gloves between batches.? Remember, you are
looking for a great seal and not a pretty finish. None of this will be seen
when the plane is done so if you have a smear or two out of place relax.
Perfect means no leaks and sound joints.
>
> Be aware that there are people that swear that it is unsafe to use this
sealer on tanks using auto fuel. Other people will tell you that it is OK
to use auto fuel in these tanks. I have been soaking one of my sample bonds
in premium auto fuel inside a mason jar for about two years now. I have seen
no softening in the bond. Who is right? You tell me. My next plane will
have tanks sealed with poly sulfide sealer as well. They make good sense.
Check out the Vans website. They have the best deal on the material.
>
> FYI I had a problematic leak in a polyethylene black water holding tank
on my motor home. I think that is why it was up for sale so cheap. I drained
the tank and scrubbed the area with Tide and a plastic brush. After
rinsing well I allowed the area to dry a few days.? Then I mixed up the leftover
sealer I had stored in the fridge eighteen months earlier. After careful
application with a paint mixing stick?I allowed the assembly to sit one
week. To this day those tanks are as good as new. Pretty incredible stuff.
>
> Brett
>
>
> Subject: Fuel tank sealing
> From: "ashontz"
>
> I think I'm going to use Pro-Seal or whatever it is Dave Clay
> recommended to seal
> up my tanks, which means I'm riveting them.
>
> Anyway, I made my tanks per the Zenith plans and now that I have it
> partially assembled
> I'm looking at that huge gap at the full length seam side where the
> skin
> joins itself. That reverse bend makes for one big unnecessary gap (see
> picture).
> Has anyone else made the tanks per the plans, gotten that, to be
> expected
> gap, and had luck with the sealer taking care of that gap?
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> > .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
> >
>
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money wasters (http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148913#148913
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Proseal fuel tanks |
Brett, thanks for the info. I'm going to remake that skin if I go with an internal
tank rather than a wet skin tank. Haven't decided yet.
Just getting myself back in building mode and a few days or a week of thinking,
considering, and reorienting myself is well worth the time rather than just jumping
in then realizing I wasn't totally reoriented and having to go back and
fix something major. Spent the last 6 months doing house jobs, car repairs, building
a shed to make the workshop more functional etc... you tend to forget
what you were working on on the plane and what your major considerations were
that you take for granted when you're in the zone.
do not archive
_____________________________________________________________
Andy,
If you are going to rivet and proseal or flame seal your tanks there can not be
any "big" gaps. All the seams need to fit tight and be riveted down so all surfaces
are touching. Of course there will be small pin holes in the corners and
tiny gaps between the joints. The sealer will fill those. If you have large
gaps of say more than 1/32 of an inch thick you should consider another row of
rivets or some other measure to close them mechanically. Maybe you could trim
back the flange and use a piece of standard "L" to close the gap.
The poly sulfide sealers form a tenacious bond between the aluminum parts. The
sealer itself is quite tough but I would not trust it to fill large gaps. I used
this construction method on my 701 tanks and believe they are a lot stronger
than the welded version made by Zenith.? I was able to incorporate two baffles
in each tank. These baffles make the tank much stronger structurally. I did
redesign the tanks making them the same size overall but all the flanges on the
ends are turned in reverse of the standard welded tanks. This allowed me to
incorporate a larger mating surface while slightly increasing the capacity of
the tank as well. If you use pop rivets they will all have to be sealed on the
exterior of the tank as well.
To give yourself a little confidence in the strength of the bond you should rivet
up some test seams when you are sealing the tanks. Rivet them as you would
any other seam of the tank. Give the entire assembly several weeks to cure, especially
in cold weather. Then drill out the rivets on the test pieces and try
to break the bond of the sealer alone. You will be surprised at how strong the
sealer is. I could not separate the bond on my samples. The aluminum tore first.
You must be absolutely sure the the aluminum is clean. That means clean; not kinda
clean. I started the cleaning by scrubbing the parts in hot water using dish
washing soap then flushing with hot water. I repeated this process three times.
Then I wiped down the joints with MEK. Good idea to do this on a sunny day
if possible. I did this cleaning process after all the fabrication and deburing
had been done. Do not blow dry the parts with compressed air because there
may be a little oil mist in the spray. If needed a blow drier or heat gun might
work well. Once the parts are clean be sure you wear latex or nitril gloves
when handling the parts. The oil from your skin could possibly cause problems
in the bond. These sealers are messy and the gloves will simplify the clean up
process.
I mixed mine using a 10:1 ratio of sealer to hardener. A electronic scale works
great for measuring the parts. Put the scale in a clear plastic bag before using
it and you will not need to worry about getting it dirty. Scrap aluminum that
has been cleaned makes a great mixing pallet and spatula. Just throw it away
with the gloves between batches.? Remember, you are looking for a great seal
and not a pretty finish. None of this will be seen when the plane is done so
if you have a smear or two out of place relax. Perfect means no leaks and sound
joints.
Be aware that there are people that swear that it is unsafe to use this sealer
on tanks using auto fuel. Other people will tell you that it is OK to use auto
fuel in these tanks. I have been soaking one of my sample bonds in premium auto
fuel inside a mason jar for about two years now. I have seen no softening in
the bond. Who is right? You tell me. My next plane will have tanks sealed with
poly sulfide sealer as well. They make good sense. Check out the Vans website.
They have the best deal on the material.
FYI I had a problematic leak in a polyethylene black water holding tank on my motor
home. I think that is why it was up for sale so cheap. I drained the tank
and scrubbed the area with Tide and a plastic brush. After rinsing well I allowed
the area to dry a few days.? Then I mixed up the leftover sealer I had stored
in the fridge eighteen months earlier. After careful application with a paint
mixing stick?I allowed the assembly to sit one week. To this day those tanks
are as good as new. Pretty incredible stuff.
Brett
Subject: Fuel tank sealing
From: "ashontz"
I think I'm going to use Pro-Seal or whatever it is Dave Clay
recommended to seal
up my tanks, which means I'm riveting them.
Anyway, I made my tanks per the Zenith plans and now that I have it
partially assembled
I'm looking at that huge gap at the full length seam side where the
skin
joins itself. That reverse bend makes for one big unnecessary gap (see
picture).
Has anyone else made the tanks per the plans, gotten that, to be
expected
gap, and had luck with the sealer taking care of that gap?
Quote:
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148915#148915
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| Subject: | Re: Roll over protection |
I want a canopy like this too. I think Zenith should just post some plans as to
how to build an XL with a CH2000 style canopy. Looks nicer too.
[quote="agustafson(at)chartermi.n"]I put roll over protection in my HD but it involved
changing the turtle deck. One plus side though was that I did not buy
a $1000 canopy but made my own from unbreakable and easily replaceable Lexan
for less than $100.
Aaron Gustafson
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/AGCB2/My%20601%20HDTD/E-1stlandingwave.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/AGCB2/My%20601%20HDTD/E-1stlandingwave.jpg)
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148917#148917
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| Subject: | Re: of wrath and rants... |
hahaha $600????
Ok, this makes me feel a little better. As crappy as my tanks may turn out, at
least I know I can give it another go for about $30 to make another one, ok, maybe
$70 if you include the sealer.
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I do agree with you we need to have a list of reputable suppliers for parts
so the Tom Henderson's of the world that sell 15 gal wing tanks for $600.00
and never deliver wouldn't have as much luck ripping people off. And their should
also be a section for known con artists and people that take forever to
send parts that builders have ordered.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148919#148919
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| Subject: | 601XL Tanks and Dynon Fuel Pickups |
I am in the process of installing the Dynon 180 and thought that the fuel
pickup readings in the Dynon would read the resistive float type fuel
senders that Zenith supplied. Am I missing something here? Or do I need
to
get the capacitive converters? I am told they are $50 plus each and I wou
ld
need two. Any help is appreciated.
Dave Nixon
CH601XL Jabiru 3300
92% done and 80% To Go
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Tanks and Dynon Fuel Pickups |
Hi Dave,
The Dynon claims to support the resitive senders. I've installed a D-180
as well and amy just wrapping up my wings but according to their docs
the zenith supplied senders should work.
John Davis
Burnsville, NC
601-XL Jab 3300
Dave Nixon wrote:
> I am in the process of installing the Dynon 180 and thought that the
> fuel pickup readings in the Dynon would read the resistive float type
> fuel senders that Zenith supplied. Am I missing something here? Or
> do I need to get the capacitive converters? I am told they are $50
> plus each and I would need two. Any help is appreciated.
> Dave Nixon
> CH601XL Jabiru 3300
> 92% done and 80% To Go
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 21
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| Subject: | 601XL Tanks and Dynon Fuel Pickups |
Dave--
The resistive senders work fine with the Dynon 180. I've been flying wit
h them for 172 hours.
George May
601XL 912s 172 hours
list@matronics.comSubject: Zenith-List: 601XL Tanks and Dynon Fuel Pickups
I am in the process of installing the Dynon 180 and thought that the fuel p
ickup readings in the Dynon would read the resistive float type fuel sender
s that Zenith supplied. Am I missing something here? Or do I need to get
the capacitive converters? I am told they are $50 plus each and I would nee
d two. Any help is appreciated.
Dave Nixon
CH601XL Jabiru 3300
92% done and 80% To Go
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE
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07
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Galvanic chart |
Andy,
I don't think you will have much galvanic corrosion unless you are on
floats and even then I don't believe it would be a big problem. But -- Zinc
anodes work well in salt water, but poorly in fresh water. In fresh water
you will want to use magnesium as your anode.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:31 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Galvanic chart
>
> I just posted a subquestion in my last post about corrosion and fittings.
> For anyone interested here's the galvanic chart. Obviously for really
> intense corrosion to occur you need and electrolyte like salt water, but
> even so, humidity can be a problem.
>
> http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Definitions/galvanic-series.htm
>
> Generally on aluminum boats they mount a sacrificial anode of zinc.
>
> Anyway, as far as fittings for an aluminum fuel tank, it looks like a zinc
> plated fitting would be better than a brass fitting. At least if one
> corrodes over time it'll be the zinc fitting which you can replace.
>
> I'm wondering if Aircraft Spruces insanely expensive fittings are just
> zinc fittings. Trying to think if I've seen regualr hose barbs and stuff
> at the hardware store that were zinc. They carry lots of brass for sure.
> I'f anything, a zinc fitting should be even cheaper.
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148882#148882
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc |
Vne is based on either aircraft structural limitations or instability limitations
whichever comes first. The original Pegastol manufacturer, Dedalius, based
the Vne calculation on the assumption that the wing was the limiting factor. I
have attached their stress calculations. I have some reservations with some of
their statements and talked to them about them. It is possible of the tail to
be the limiting factor for Vne bit I dont think that is the usual case. The
load on the elevator/stabilizer will depend somewhat on where the C of G is. Near
the aft end of the C of G limit will have the tail under lower stresses than
of the C of G is further forward.
Their claim is essentially that it is designed to handle the more severe utility
requirements rather than the normal requirements met by the 701 or Cessna 172
for example. That claim was partly based on the adoption of recommended design
changes that in some cases never happened. For instance, the bolt diameter
of the front wing attachment root wing was supposed have been increased over the
original, as used by Zenith. That did not happen, nor could it have without
increasing the size if the wing pickup flanges in the Zenith cabin frame.
I was a bit disappointed when I discovered these discrepancies after going through
their analyses. The bottom line for me is that I do not consider the wing
system to be designed to the utility category requirements. The weakest links
in their design still satisfy the normal category even at 125 mph (assuming no
stability problems).
-- ray
--------
Ray St-Laurent
701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148935#148935
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/stress_analysis_125.pdf
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Roll over protection |
The more I think about it the more I think that if I could find someone good at
laying up fiberglass it might be a neat idea just to make a aerodynamic top front
fuselage that would replace the canopy. It could have gull-wing doors and
even some embedded rollover protection.
It's not like the designed canopy is structural. There is a 601 sportster pictured
at the zenith site that has nothing but a windscreen.
The fiberglass could even be made removable so you could have a sportster.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148936#148936
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Strut Covers |
arno7452@bellsouth.net wrote:
> Need source for strut covers for 701.
> Many thanks,
> Ken Arnold
> CH701 95% N701LK (Currently in the paint shop)
>
> do not archive
Dead simple to fabricate. Just use roofing aluminum, form
leading edge by aligning trailing edges and pressing down on
leading edge (carefully, so as not to get too sharp a
leading edge) with a 2x6. Drill through trailing edges for
small soft rivets (a la flaperons). Fit onto struts with
appropriate cut-out for jury struts), clamp, and squeeze rivets.
Shoot poly-urethane foam into the ends to affix your
fairings at appropriate 'angle-of-attack'. Affix 'No Push'
decals near fuselage so that you passengers don't lean on
the (hopefully). Done. total cost? $10? Enjoy your 5-8 mph
cruise speed increase ;') See http://cleco.ca -> CH701 ->
Spring2006 -> imgp2982.jpg.html (and other pics)
--
Regards, J.
flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 400 hrs.
building: Sonex #325 (F-CJNJ), Jabiru 3300/6, 98% completed
-------------------------------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
voice: 519.289.1527 http://www.cleco.ca
c/o Brandywine Aviation 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON
N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 2000+ x 60', elev: 740'
-------------------------------------------------
To most people the sky is the limit.
To those who love aviation, the sky is home.
Losers see problems; winners see opportunities.
Message 26
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| Subject: | plans fo CH701 amphib floats |
Does anyone have an unused set of float plans for sale ?
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: of wrath and rants... |
I personally don't see the humor in it. Zenith charges I think 1250.00 for
the 15 gal tanks. It seems to me you are worried about the tanks you are making
leaking. Why don't you try and price having them welded and roll formed for
strength and see how much they cost then. I was taught not to throw stones
in a glass house.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/27/2007 4:22:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
hahaha $600????
Ok, this makes me feel a little better. As crappy as my tanks may turn out,
at least I know I can give it another go for about $30 to make another one,
ok, maybe $70 if you include the sealer.
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I do agree with you we need to have a list of reputable suppliers for
parts so the Tom Henderson's of the world that sell 15 gal wing tanks for
$600.00 and never deliver wouldn't have as much luck ripping people off. And
their should also be a section for known con artists and people that take
forever to send parts that builders have ordered.
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148919#148919
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
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| Subject: | Re: of wrath and rants... |
Uh, actually, I'm backing you up on this one, sounds like you're peeved that he's
not doing his job, AND he's charging you that much. $600 just sounds like a
lot of money to me for two tanks. Sure, having them welded is expensive, that's
why I'd like to go with the sealer. Even so, how much work is really going
into these tanks. I've just been farting around with them and it really didn't
take me that long to make the general configuration per Zenith's plans. If he's
making these tanks as a business the hard part would be welding, that's about
it. I'd seem to me he'd be able to make one cheaper than that all tooled up
for the deal. Personally, I'm just trying to find the best way to seal up what
I've made, and if I need to remake the skin it'll take me all of 20 minutes,
I'm just being anal about the edges where it seals to make sure I'm doing it
right.
I'm on your side though, if he's making parts he should be able to complete them
in a timely fashion, and seeing how there's about $50 worth of parts per tank,
I really don't see the need for him to need the $600 upfront. I'd be peeved
too.
[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]I personally don't see the humor in it. Zenith charges
I think 1250.00 for the 15 gal tanks. It seems to me you are worried about
the tanks you are making leaking. Why don't you try and price having them
welded and roll formed for strength and see how much they cost then. I was
taught not to throw stones in a glass house.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/27/2007 4:22:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ashontz@nbme.org
writes:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz"
>
> hahaha $600????
>
> Ok, this makes me feel a little better. As crappy as my tanks may turn out,
at least I know I can give it another go for about $30 to make another one,
ok, maybe $70 if you include the sealer.
>
>
> Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > I do agree with you we need to have a list of reputable suppliers for
parts so the Tom Henderson's of the world that sell 15 gal wing tanks for
$600.00 and never deliver wouldn't have as much luck ripping people off.
And their should also be a section for known con artists and people that take
forever to send parts that builders have ordered.
> >
> >
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148919#148919
>
>
>
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money wasters (http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148947#148947
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| Subject: | 601 XL 15 gal. fuel tanks. |
Speaking of fuel senders in your tanks,,,,
I m about to cut into my 601 XL tanks to install the sending units.
My plans show the hole in the end of the tank and my CD shows the hole
on the top just in front of the spar.
What did you guys do ??
Seems like on top would be best and not leak....
If its installed on the inboard end as per plans, can the unit be
removed thru the access hole if needed ?
SW
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 Strut Covers |
How did you determine the proper angle of incidence for the strut fairings?
Thanks!
On Nov 27, 2007 3:04 PM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
>
> arno7452@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > Need source for strut covers for 701.
> > Many thanks,
> > Ken Arnold
> > CH701 95% N701LK (Currently in the paint shop)
> >
> > do not archive
>
> Dead simple to fabricate. Just use roofing aluminum, form
> leading edge by aligning trailing edges and pressing down on
> leading edge (carefully, so as not to get too sharp a
> leading edge) with a 2x6. Drill through trailing edges for
> small soft rivets (a la flaperons). Fit onto struts with
> appropriate cut-out for jury struts), clamp, and squeeze rivets.
>
> Shoot poly-urethane foam into the ends to affix your
> fairings at appropriate 'angle-of-attack'. Affix 'No Push'
> decals near fuselage so that you passengers don't lean on
> the (hopefully). Done. total cost? $10? Enjoy your 5-8 mph
> cruise speed increase ;') See http://cleco.ca -> CH701 ->
> Spring2006 -> imgp2982.jpg.html (and other pics)
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> flying: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 400 hrs.
> building: Sonex #325 (F-CJNJ), Jabiru 3300/6, 98% completed
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (computer science)
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
> voice: 519.289.1527 http://www.cleco.ca
> c/o Brandywine Aviation 5507 Irish Dr., Appin, ON
> N42 47.33 W081 36.50 31/13 2000+ x 60', elev: 740'
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> To most people the sky is the limit.
> To those who love aviation, the sky is home.
>
> Losers see problems; winners see opportunities.
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
-Airplane The Movie
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: ground school |
Eldon,
Sounds like you've got a plan. My first student was a guy in his 70's who also
had a 50 year gap in his aviation career. His stemmed from getting lost on his
first cross-country and nearly running out of gas in the mountains. He was
determined to finally overcome his fear and went on to get his license and do
a lot of flying. I'm glad you will soon be able to get back in the air.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148970#148970
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL 15 gal. fuel tanks. |
I didn't use the ZAC supplied units. I installed capacitance type probes from
the outboard end of the tank. If they fail I will most likely have to open up
the leading edge.
The latest plans call for installing them in the end of the tank. I believe there
is a clearance problem with the head of the sender and the skin if you try
to top mount them. Hopefully someone else will chime in here.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148971#148971
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL 15 gal. fuel tanks. |
The old style sender could be top mounted but the new style is mounted on
the side. If you have a older kit or older plans they call for 4 ribs before
the tank and the access hole is pretty small (I just made one so trust me it's
small) and I don't think with the four rib style you could get it out without
loosing some blood from your hands. The 3 rib wing (New style) gives you a
bigger access hole and the tank is right against the tank and the sender lines
up with the flanged hole in the rib so it would be fairly easy to remove the
sender.
Hope this helps
Jeff
In a message dated 11/27/2007 8:30:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
juhl@avci.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
I didn't use the ZAC supplied units. I installed capacitance type probes
from the outboard end of the tank. If they fail I will most likely have to
open up the leading edge.
The latest plans call for installing them in the end of the tank. I believe
there is a clearance problem with the head of the sender and the skin if you
try to top mount them. Hopefully someone else will chime in here.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148971#148971
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: of wrath and rants... |
sending money for tanks you never receive $600.00
Making a wing tank yourself (that might leak) $150.00
Paying someone to fix your leaking tank in 2 years $800.00
Buying the tanks from zenith and never having to worry again Priceless
Are you a wing tank builder??? No but I did stay at a holiday in express
last night!!!!!
Boy do I need a drink
In a message dated 11/27/2007 6:44:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
Uh, actually, I'm backing you up on this one, sounds like you're peeved that
he's not doing his job, AND he's charging you that much. $600 just sounds
like a lot of money to me for two tanks. Sure, having them welded is expensive,
that's why I'd like to go with the sealer. Even so, how much work is really
going into these tanks. I've just been farting around with them and it really
didn't take me that long to make the general configuration per Zenith's
plans. If he's making these tanks as a business the hard part would be welding,
that's about it. I'd seem to me he'd be able to make one cheaper than that all
tooled up for the deal. Personally, I'm just trying to find the best way to
seal up what I've made, and if I need to remake the skin it'll take me all of
20 minutes, I'm just being anal about the edges where it seals to make sure
I'm doing it right.
I'm on your side though, if he's making parts he should be able to complete
them in a timely fashion, and seeing how there's about $50 worth of parts per
tank, I really don't see the need for him to need the $600 upfront. I'd be
peeved too.
[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]I personally don't see the humor in it.
Zenith charges I think 1250.00 for the 15 gal tanks. It seems to me you are
worried about the tanks you are making leaking. Why don't you try and price
having them welded and roll formed for strength and see how much they cost then.
I was taught not to throw stones in a glass house.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/27/2007 4:22:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz"
>
> hahaha $600????
>
> Ok, this makes me feel a little better. As crappy as my tanks may turn
out, at least I know I can give it another go for about $30 to make
another one, ok, maybe $70 if you include the sealer.
>
>
> Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > I do agree with you we need to have a list of reputable suppliers
for parts so the Tom Henderson's of the world that sell 15 gal wing tanks
for $600.00 and never deliver wouldn't have as much luck ripping people
off. And their should also be a section for known con artists and people
that take forever to send parts that builders have ordered.
> >
> >
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148919#148919
>
>
>
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and top money
wasters
(http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148947#148947
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL 15 gal. fuel tanks. |
My QBK is # 55. There are three nose ribs inboard of the tank. I
assume I need to install the senders on the end of the tank. Its no
problem but I didnt want to screw up these "costly" tanks. I ve been
watching your discussion of tank costs here and cant believe the $$$$$.
Heck, about $6 of sheet aluminum and a tig welder would put us in
business...
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL 15 gal. fuel tanks.
The old style sender could be top mounted but the new style is mounted
on the side. If you have a older kit or older plans they call for 4 ribs
before the tank and the access hole is pretty small (I just made one so
trust me it's small) and I don't think with the four rib style you could
get it out without loosing some blood from your hands. The 3 rib wing
(New style) gives you a bigger access hole and the tank is right against
the tank and the sender lines up with the flanged hole in the rib so it
would be fairly easy to remove the sender.
Hope this helps
Jeff
In a message dated 11/27/2007 8:30:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
juhl@avci.net writes:
I didn't use the ZAC supplied units. I installed capacitance type
probes from the outboard end of the tank. If they fail I will most
likely have to open up the leading edge.
The latest plans call for installing them in the end of the tank. I
believe there is a clearance problem with the head of the sender and the
skin if you try to top mount them. Hopefully someone else will chime in
here.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148971#148971
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top
money wasters of 2007.
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: of wrath and rants... |
Actually when I drink, I m really a good welder.
Oh and a good lover, but dont tell my wife.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: of wrath and rants...
sending money for tanks you never receive $600.00
Making a wing tank yourself (that might leak) $150.00
Paying someone to fix your leaking tank in 2 years $800.00
Buying the tanks from zenith and never having to worry again
Priceless
Are you a wing tank builder??? No but I did stay at a holiday in
express last night!!!!!
Boy do I need a drink
In a message dated 11/27/2007 6:44:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
Uh, actually, I'm backing you up on this one, sounds like you're
peeved that he's not doing his job, AND he's charging you that much.
$600 just sounds like a lot of money to me for two tanks. Sure, having
them welded is expensive, that's why I'd like to go with the sealer.
Even so, how much work is really going into these tanks. I've just been
farting around with them and it really didn't take me that long to make
the general configuration per Zenith's plans. If he's making these tanks
as a business the hard part would be welding, that's about it. I'd seem
to me he'd be able to make one cheaper than that all tooled up for the
deal. Personally, I'm just trying to find the best way to seal up what
I've made, and if I need to remake the skin it'll take me all of 20
minutes, I'm just being anal about the edges where it seals to make sure
I'm doing it right.
I'm on your side though, if he's making parts he should be able to
complete them in a timely fashion, and seeing how there's about $50
worth of parts per tank, I really don't see the need for him to need the
$600 upfront. I'd be peeved too.
[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]I personally don't see the humor in
it. Zenith charges I think 1250.00 for the 15 gal tanks. It seems to me
you are worried about the tanks you are making leaking. Why don't you
try and price having them welded and roll formed for strength and see
how much they cost then. I was taught not to throw stones in a glass
house.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/27/2007 4:22:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz"
>
> hahaha $600????
>
> Ok, this makes me feel a little better. As crappy as my tanks
may turn out, at least I know I can give it another go for about $30
to make another one, ok, maybe $70 if you include the sealer.
>
>
> Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > I do agree with you we need to have a list of reputable
suppliers for parts so the Tom Henderson's of the world that sell 15
gal wing tanks for $600.00 and never deliver wouldn't have as much
luck ripping people off. And their should also be a section for
known con artists and people that take forever to send parts that
builders have ordered.
> >
> >
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148919#148919
>
>
>
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300000000
01) and top money wasters
(http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aolt
op00030000000002) of 2007.
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148947#148947
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top
money wasters of 2007.
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL 15 gal. fuel tanks. |
Meant to say the tank is right against the rib
In a message dated 11/27/2007 8:53:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Afterfxllc@aol.com writes:
The old style sender could be top mounted but the new style is mounted on
the side. If you have a older kit or older plans they call for 4 ribs before
the tank and the access hole is pretty small (I just made one so trust me it's
small) and I don't think with the four rib style you could get it out without
loosing some blood from your hands. The 3 rib wing (New style) gives you a
bigger access hole and the tank is right against the tank and the sender lines
up with the flanged hole in the rib so it would be fairly easy to remove the
sender.
Hope this helps
Jeff
In a message dated 11/27/2007 8:30:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
juhl@avci.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
I didn't use the ZAC supplied units. I installed capacitance type probes
from the outboard end of the tank. If they fail I will most likely have to
open up the leading edge.
The latest plans call for installing them in the end of the tank. I believe
there is a clearance problem with the head of the sender and the skin if you
try to top mount them. Hopefully someone else will chime in here.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148971#148971
____________________________________
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the _hottest products_
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) and _top money
wasters_
(http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002) of 2007.
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
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Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Roll over protection |
Sounds like you want one of the airfox canopy installations from Brazil???
The more I think about it the more I think that if I could find someone good at
laying up fiberglass it might be a neat idea just to make a aerodynamic top front
fuselage that would replace the canopy. It could have gull-wing doors and
even some embedded rollover protection.
It's not like the designed canopy is structural. There is a 601 sportster pictured
at the zenith site that has nothing but a windscreen.
The fiberglass could even be made removable so you could have a sportster.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148936#148936
Dave Downey
Harleysville (SE) PA
100 HP Corvair
---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Filling mc-5A brake system |
All,
Whilst standing in my shop this weekend marvelling at my newly installed
brake system, I slowly realized I have no idea how to add fluid to the
thing.
My 801 kit came with Matco MC-5A internal reservoir masters. There are only
two ports, one where the brake line attaches, a second that looks like an
air vent on top. It doesn't appear to be easily removed. I checked the Matco
web site, no help. They've got a mechanical installation drawing, and make
some comments about what kind of fluid to use, but no manual for the -5 or
any other internal reservoir system. Nothing on the Zenith pages either.
If the top port is really an air vent, I could pump fluid in backwards from
the bottom of the calipers. If this is really how it's done, what to use for
a pump? Suggestions welcome.
Thanks,
N801KA "Texas Yardart"
75% complete.
--
\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/
--Kenny A.
http://websites.expercraft.com/kennya/
Message 40
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| Subject: | Filling mc-5A brake system |
Take a look at page 10 (the last page) of this document. It is for the 601XL
but the principle is the same. This shows a hand oil pump being used to fill
from the bottom but I have seen a squeeze bottle (like a ketchup bottle in a
diner) used too:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-gear.pdf
-- Craig
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Filling mc-5A brake system |
I haven't done it but I've seen it suggested to use a new pump type
oilcan with a short piece of tubing to pump the brake fluid up from the
bottom bleed port.
Dred
Message 42
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| Subject: | Elevator trailing edge straightening |
For those who have straightened there trailing edge to remove the nose heavy trim
in a 701, how did you deal with the section that has the trim tab installed
(I crushed the ends of the trim hinge rather than safety wiring it)? Also, should
the edge line up with the top skin of the elevator or a more neutral point?
Thanks in advance.
-- ray
--------
Ray St-Laurent
701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149003#149003
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