---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/06/07: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:12 AM - Matronics List Fund Raiser - 2007 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle) 2. 12:14 AM - Re: Removing metal scratches on Rudder (John Reinking) 3. 04:07 AM - Re: Avex Rivets (ashontz) 4. 04:18 AM - Re: What have you got to lose??? (ashontz) 5. 06:09 AM - Re: What have you got to lose??? (Bob Unternaehrer) 6. 06:44 AM - Re: Magnetic compass (Zed Smith) 7. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: What have you got to lose??? (Bob Unternaehrer) 8. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: Removing metal scratches on Rudder (Bob Unternaehrer) 9. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: Engine Performance for 701 (MacDonald Doug) 10. 07:51 AM - Jabiru + 601XL enthusiasts only (Jon Croke) 11. 08:51 AM - throttle on 701 with 912 (Joe Spencer) 12. 10:44 AM - Re: Engine Performance for 701 (kmccune) 13. 11:38 AM - Re: What have you got to lose??? (Phil Maxson) 14. 02:11 PM - () 15. 02:34 PM - Re: article on vertical card compasses (Martin Pohl) 16. 02:52 PM - More on the 912 throttle (Zed Smith) 17. 05:47 PM - MLG Nuts () 18. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: Magnetic compass (Juan Vega) 19. 06:18 PM - Re: Re: Avex Rivets (Christian Tremblay) 20. 06:24 PM - On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" (LarryMcFarland) 21. 06:47 PM - Re: Avex Rivets (Tim Juhl) 22. 07:50 PM - Re: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" (Al Hays) 23. 08:55 PM - Re: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" (ROBERT SCEPPA) 24. 09:39 PM - Re: Re: Avex Rivets (Ron Lalonde) 25. 09:42 PM - Re: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" (DRAGONFUEL@aol.com) 26. 10:15 PM - Re: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:26 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: Matronics List Fund Raiser - 2007 List of Contributors Dear Listers, I would like to thank everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists this year! It was really nice to hear all great comments people had regarding the Lists! As I have said many times before, running these Lists is a labor of love. Your generosity during the List Fund Raiser underscores the great sentiments people have made regarding the Lists. If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please feel free to do so. The great List Fund Raiser gifts will be available on the Contribution site for just a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution and get your great gift! Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of discounted merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated! And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2007 List of Contributors current as of 12/6/07! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU! http://www.matronics.com/loc/2007.html I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service. Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:40 AM PST US From: John Reinking Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Removing metal scratches on Rudder Thanks for your ideas gentlemen. We are considering a polished metal but have not ruled out painting. I do realize that scratches sufficient to be easily felt or if on a location that cannot tolerate it (and must be replaced) but wasn't sure about these soft surface scratches. John/Woodinville, WA ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Avex Rivets From: "ashontz" Could just be the rivet puller too. Gig Giacona wrote: > That's strange. I've riveted the tail, both wings and most of the fuselage with nothing but the rivets from Zenith and I have never had one that left a tip of any kinds sticking up. > > As far as the stems pulling off cleanly, I think that's more "luck of the draw". About 1 out of 4 of my Zenith supplied A5's have a sharp tip sticking up. Run your hand along your wing rivet lines and you'll see what I mean. I'm not too worried about it, but if I were polishing my wings I would be as it would tear up polish pads in short order. Patrick XL/Corvair[/quote][/quote] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150772#150772 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:59 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: What have you got to lose??? From: "ashontz" I actually use my compass all the time in my boat. I've actually had times where either the LORAN wasn't picking up this last go round, it actually stopped working, while I was in the geographic center of the Delaware Bay, that's 12 miles from anything. 12 miles from anything on a hazy windless flat day at slack tide at 12 noon and you can't see any land, you have no idea which direction is what. Couple that with concentrating on fishing for 2 hours and you definitely don't kow which way you're looking. It's like being in IMC. I've been flying on borderline VFR days and at 1,800 feet, it's like looking down into a fishbowl with a small circular window surrounded by hazy, and that's actually legal VFR. 3 miles of visibility at 1,800 will give you a cone about 135 degrees to see down, and you can't see the horizon. If you're electronics give up even in that kind of legal VFR it's probably good to have a compass onboard. Maybe you don't get that kind of hazy weather up in Canada, but in Jersey it's the norm. zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote: > I find a compass a useless piece of avionics in today cockpits. With my Dynon/Sensornetics and GPS why the heckdo I still need a compass. Oh right the Canadian Government will not give me a flight authority without a ?Whiskey Compass? Not a remote compass like my Dynon, not a card compass or a directional gyro but a Whiskey Compass. > > I think I have finally figured out why!! If I go down in the frozen north wilderness of Canada I can crack open my whiskey compass and drink the contents, blindness would follow shortly. The fine gov officials know that I would not want to see just how screwed I am after they cut spending on our search and rescue resources again. > > Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario > Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started > www.ch601.org (http://www.ch601.org) / www.ch701.com (http://www.ch701.com)/ www.Osprey2.com (http://www.Osprey2.com) > do not archive > > > -- -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150773#150773 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:15 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: What have you got to lose??? <<>> His job also is to see that the airplane meets FAA regulations. If regulations require a magnetic compas, some units MAY not meet this reqirement if it exist. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Afterfxllc@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:27 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: What have you got to lose??? The DAR that tells you what to put in your airplane is not doing his job.... His job is to inspect your aircraft and make sure it is in a "Condition for safe operation" and if he wouldn't give you an airworthiness certificate because you had a cheap compass than you my friend have pissed off your DAR. If you were correct in your assumption then he could also say you can't fly with that Stewart Warner Tack or that car motor. The Dynon is not TSO'd either. Just because something costs more doesn't mean it's better or not worthy of flight. Jeff In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:28:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tjs22t@verizon.net writes: I have heard some guys talking about compass's and they have said >the cheapest and most reliable one they found came straight from >the auto parts store. I don't know if this is true or not but with >a dynon and a GPS this is kind triple redundant so I could see how >this might work but for 20 bucks what have you got to lose. Jeff, what you have to lose is time if your inspector won't approve it. The inspector or DAR might pan such a cheapie as regulations require a compass. Would they allow it if you have an EFIS with compass? Better ask. tj do not sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ===================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- hottest products and top money wasters of 2007. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:50 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Magnetic compass do not archive There have been previous discussions, four or so years ago, relating to the installation of a magnetic compass. As best I recall the bottom line was that some builders simply used a clamp to affix a compass to one of the front tubes in the 701 windshield. This remained in place until inspection was completed. After the ink dried the builder made changes to suit himself. Somebody commented that they were aware of one particular compass had been in three different aircraft for only as long as it took to get past inspection. Your results may vary. Regrds to all, Zed/701/912/90+%/etc ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:50 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: What have you got to lose??? Do you also find an electric turn and bank indicator a "useles piece of junk" in todays cockpit. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: ashontz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 6:15 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: What have you got to lose??? I actually use my compass all the time in my boat. I've actually had times where either the LORAN wasn't picking up this last go round, it actually stopped working, while I was in the geographic center of the Delaware Bay, that's 12 miles from anything. 12 miles from anything on a hazy windless flat day at slack tide at 12 noon and you can't see any land, you have no idea which direction is what. Couple that with concentrating on fishing for 2 hours and you definitely don't kow which way you're looking. It's like being in IMC. I've been flying on borderline VFR days and at 1,800 feet, it's like looking down into a fishbowl with a small circular window surrounded by hazy, and that's actually legal VFR. 3 miles of visibility at 1,800 will give you a cone about 135 degrees to see down, and you can't see the horizon. If you're electronics give up even in that kind of legal VFR it's probably good to have a compass onboard. Maybe you don't get that kind of hazy weather up in Canad! a, but in Jersey it's the norm. zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote: > I find a compass a useless piece of avionics in today cockpits. With my Dynon/Sensornetics and GPS why the heckdo I still need a compass. Oh right the Canadian Government will not give me a flight authority without a ?Whiskey Compass? Not a remote compass like my Dynon, not a card compass or a directional gyro but a Whiskey Compass. > > I think I have finally figured out why!! If I go down in the frozen north wilderness of Canada I can crack open my whiskey compass and drink the contents, blindness would follow shortly. The fine gov officials know that I would not want to see just how screwed I am after they cut spending on our search and rescue resources again. > > Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario > Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started > www.ch601.org (http://www.ch601.org) / www.ch701.com (http://www.ch701.com)/ www.Osprey2.com (http://www.Osprey2.com) > do not archive > > > -- -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150773#150773 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:55 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Removing metal scratches on Rudder If your buffing or polishing you've got a lot of work ahead of you. The basic premise is that you will have to sand, using course enough paper to remove and feather out the scratch, then begin to sand and polish using successively finer paper and polishing compound untill you get back to the polish desired. I've done it many times, mostly on plexiglass, but also on aluminum and have the kits to do it. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: kmccune To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:56 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Removing metal scratches on Rudder Sorry for sticking my nose in your post reinkings(at)comcast.net, but what if your buffing most of the skin, instead of painting? Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150669#150669 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:02 AM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Engine Performance for 701 Don't forget to keep an eye open for a good used 912 UL deal. They are out there to be had. People are still pulling good 80hp engines and installing the 100hp. Also there are engines from crashed or storm damages planes as well. Keep en eye on E-bay and Barnstormers. You never know what you might find. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada Do Not Archive --- kmccune wrote: > > > I recently went through this dilemma. I just > "barley" started the rudder, but I couldn't start > anything until I came up with an affordable engine. > I have WWs Corvair manual and am still anxious > about his buddy's 701 project, but I'm not holding > my breath. The VW to get any performance needs > water-cooled heads. These are available but by the > time you add these and the re-drive, you are getting > pretty close to the weight limit. This left the > Suzuki. There are several re-drive mfgs, but they > really don't provide much info about the engine, or > even the re-drive for that matter.Send me an email > and I'll send you what info I have found. There are > some 701/Suzuki builders on this site that recently > got their tail numbers so keep checking it out as > they have promised info. > > > Kevin > > -------- > Kevin Looking for last minute shopping deals? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:50 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru + 601XL enthusiasts only HomebuiltHELP is proud to announce the release of the NEW version of the popular Jabiru engine installation video. Recently, we were invited to film the workshop where a 3300 engine was installed on a customer's 601XL airframe at Jabiru USA. This film differs from our original release on this topic in that it is more detailed in its content (5 hour, 2 DVD set!) and demonstrates installation using the new engine cowling and oil cooler found in the new FWF kit. This video makes an excellent supplement to the Jabiru FWF installation instructions due to the level of detail and demonstrations provided by the Jabiru installation team at the workshop. For those that have already purchased the original Jabiru engine Semiar video from HomebuiltHELP, we are offering a full cash refund for that purchase if you decide to go with this new version! (see website) Details can be found at the website: http://www.homebuilthelp.com/JabiruSeminar.htm ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:23 AM PST US From: "Joe Spencer" Subject: Zenith-List: throttle on 701 with 912 Guys FWIW, I hassled with the retarded throttle cable arrangement that came with the 701 kit for a while...didn't like fighting the full throttle springs all the time and never being able to keep the carbs in synch for long. Tried several different cable arrangements none of which were much more successful and the spring fight ever present...having to lock the throttle(vernier) everytime the throttle hand was needed for anything but pulling back hard on the throttle. BS. I finally posted here and got several responses from others who were dissatisfied/made changes and ended up using a solid pushrod setup(no springs) suggested by I can't remember who but he knew what he was talking about when he said it solved all his throttle problems. Mine are gone too. Thank you and sorry I have misplaced your info. This mod has made all the difference when flying this thing. The throttle is about like a C150 now and the important carb sync is no problem now. I have to wonder how many 701/601 with the stock cable arrangement are running around out of sync. While on the subject of carb sync-I bought the gauge setup from Lockwood which would be allright except that the gauges aren't dampened(oil filled or something similar) which causes them to twitch constantly(near impossible to adjust this out) and throws doubt on the results of the sync procedure. I have talked to others who have had this same problem. My set is for sale if anybody is interested. Like new. Used a couple times. No instructions-they went thru the prop. $50 bucks plus UPS to your house. Joe Merry Christmas all ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:54 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Engine Performance for 701 From: "kmccune" He is correct, but if your like me you need an alternative if you don't get lucky. I would rather have a "standard" FWF for no other reason then, more people have done it. I am still hoping that the Suzi will perform well compared to the 912s. -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150827#150827 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:54 AM PST US From: Phil Maxson Subject: RE: Zenith-List: What have you got to lose??? My DAR looked at my vertical card compass and must have thought it was love ly. At that time, that was the only type of direction indicator I had. Th is is a non-issue.Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey From: shilocom@mcmsys.comTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-L ist: What have you got to lose???Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 08:07:18 -0600 <<>> His job also is to see that the airplane meets FAA regulations. If regula tions require a magnetic compas, some units MAY not meet this reqirement if it exist. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:27 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: What have you got to lose??? The DAR that tells you what to put in your airplane is not doing his job... . His job is to inspect your aircraft and make sure it is in a "Condition f or safe operation" and if he wouldn't give you an airworthiness certificate because you had a cheap compass than you my friend have pissed off your DA R. If you were correct in your assumption then he could also say you can't fly with that Stewart Warner Tack or that car motor. The Dynon is not TSO'd either. Just because something costs more doesn't mean it's better or not worthy of flight. Jeff In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:28:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tjs22t@ver izon.net writes: ys talking about compass's and they have said >the cheapest and most reliab le one they found came straight from >the auto parts store. I don't know if this is true or not but with >a dynon and a GPS this is kind triple redund ant so I could see how >this might work but for 20 bucks what have you got to lose.Jeff, what you have to lose is time if your inspector won't approve it. The inspector or DAR might pan such a cheapie as regulations require a compass. Would they allow it if you have an EFIS with compass? Better a sk.tj do not sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB F ORUMS ===================== hottest products and top money wasters of 2007. href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref ="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_C PC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:05 PM PST US ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:48 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: article on vertical card compasses From: "Martin Pohl" This is what Precision Aviation Inc. is writing about the mentioned article: > No, the magnet cannot be pulled out of the gimbal, due to the use of a jeweled limit pin, which allows the compass to be flown inverted. However, this myth concerning pulling the magnet out of the gimbal showed up sometime back in an article and was later propagated via the internet in an article titled "Our Ally, The Magnetic Compass". Here: http://www.pai700.com Cheers Martin -------- Martin Pohl Zodiac XL QBK 8645 Jona, Switzerland www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150867#150867 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:03 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: More on the 912 throttle do not archive The Rotax factory school instructor noted that 912 engines are run at the factory using propane as a fuel. Indicated that this first test run was merely to see that the engine operated properly, and that carb adjustment WOULD BE NECESSARY at the time of installation. That was the case with my engine on a previous aircraft. The instructor also said that even though the 912 COULD be idled back to about 1100 RPM or thereabouts, do NOT do this.....the engine will come loose from the airframe. It is intended to idle at the 1800 mark as noted in a previous post. I escapes me at the moment if carbs were attached during the test run or if they just use a propane-air mixture and hoses. Gasoline was not used as this would then require the factory to remove gasoline from the carbs prior to shipping. Regards, Zed/701/912/90+%/etc ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:30 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: MLG Nuts Hi Guys, I'm usually just a "lurker" but I was just at the step of installing these nuts.I also don't really know the torque,and I sungged them down.One thing I did notice was that the rubber used as buffers distorted as the nuts got tight.I would think this would affect the torque.In regards to drilling the holes for the cotter keys,I don't think I will.The new drawings give you the option of using a self locking nut.Seems simpler. Regards,Bob Haring ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:09 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Magnetic compass to compass nay sayers, For you guys that have redundancy upon redundancy, preaching about having backups to the back ups,then trying to scimp on a compass, is quite interesting. A compass has gottn me home when a DG has failed, when the vacum pump died a year later, and a few years later when my VORs died, and yes GPSs fail too. Hate to say it but the most reliable pece of instrumentation in th plane IS the compass, i just think the guys that don't use it don't want to bother learning how to use it. Tell a Cub pilot you don't need a compass, and he will tell you a compass and an rpm guage is all you need. You guys saw the glass panel I put in mine, and the crowning instrument, on top was a compass. Also There is a difference between a sailboat or car compass and a good aviation compass. Its in the magnet shielding. I said my piece. Before the start of my lambasting, think about it first. All I care about is seeing fellow pilots be safe Juan Vega -----Original Message----- >From: Zed Smith >Sent: Dec 6, 2007 9:39 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Magnetic compass > > >do not archive > >There have been previous discussions, four or so years ago, relating to the installation of a magnetic compass. >As best I recall the bottom line was that some builders simply used a clamp to affix a compass to one of the front tubes in the 701 windshield. This remained in place until inspection was completed. >After the ink dried the builder made changes to suit himself. >Somebody commented that they were aware of one particular compass had been in three different aircraft for only as long as it took to get past inspection. Your results may vary. >Regrds to all, >Zed/701/912/90+%/etc > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:48 PM PST US From: Christian Tremblay Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Avex Rivets Thanks Dave, that confirms what I heard about that topic. It clarifies this remaining questions arising season after season. See you How was your new project ? Christian Tremblay A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan http://www.zodiac640.com/ -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de TxDave Envoy: Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:18 AM : zenith-list@matronics.com Objet: Zenith-List: Re: Avex Rivets Zenith no longer gets their Avex rivets from the UK. There is only one source and that's in China. The UK plant is no longer producing these rivets. The ones Zenith purchases are from the same source as Aircraft Spruce. There is NO DIFFERENCE except that Zenith runs random tests. Don't believe me...call ZAC and ask them. I did. Dave Clay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150704#150704 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:48 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" Good evening gentlemen, I'd have thought that Cessna had better marketing sense than to allow China to become the manufacturing base for an aircraft that would be sold back to America. Most of the people of "our generation" that can afford the plane, wouldn't buy any aircraft from China on basic moral principals, regardless of price. No more than we'd tolerate buying an automobile from China regardless of the American sounding nameplate on the front. Any other friendly country would have been fine, like England, Japan, Poland, Czechoslovakia or Belgium. *Never from China! *Cessna can keep their plane. I wouldn't devalue my country's financial base that way! Larry McFarland EAA 9008455 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:12 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Avex Rivets From: "Tim Juhl" I've never had a Zenith supplied rivet leave any of the shank protruding. I got my rivets in June 06 so they may be some that were made in the UK. I've seen a number of problems with Chinese built products - poison pet food, bogus drugs and personal products, aluminum that doesn't meet spec, inferior auto parts, lead paint on toys...... pardon me if I'm not a fan of Chinese exports. The fact that avex rivets are now made in China does not reassure me. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150924#150924 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:28 PM PST US From: Al Hays Subject: Re: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" I've got to admit I'll be disappointed if most of the orders they have for the Skycatcher aren't cancelled after hearing it's to be manufactured by a company owned by the Chinese government. It looks like they might just cover the $26.4 million they're paying for Columbia with the profit on about 528 Skycatchers. You can bet there will be plenty of Chinese made rivets in it too. Isn't there a U.S. or Canadian made alternative to Avex rivets for our Zeniths? Do not archive Al Hays 601XL starting fuselage EAA 0289545 On Dec 6, 2007, at 8:49 PM, LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > Good evening gentlemen, > I'd have thought that Cessna had better marketing sense than to allow > China to become the manufacturing base for an aircraft that would > be sold back to America. > > Most of the people of "our generation" that can afford the plane, > wouldn't buy any aircraft from > China on basic moral principals, regardless of price. No more than > we'd tolerate buying an automobile > from China regardless of the American sounding nameplate on the front. > Any other friendly country would have been fine, like England, > Japan, Poland, Czechoslovakia or Belgium. > > *Never from China! *Cessna can keep their plane. I wouldn't > devalue my country's financial base that way! > > Larry McFarland > EAA 9008455 > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:47 PM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" > Alas, poor people who have put deposits on the > Skycatcher. Remos Aircraft have honored those who > have. They are offering a $5000 reduction on the > base price of their Remos G-3 along with delivery in > 3 months. Remos will continue the offer to transfer > Cessna deposit credits through Dec 31st 07.... > Happy New Year!!!:):):) do not archive... --- Al Hays wrote: > > > I've got to admit I'll be disappointed if most of > the orders they > have for the Skycatcher aren't cancelled after > hearing it's to be > manufactured by a company owned by the Chinese > government. It looks > like they might just cover the $26.4 million they're > paying for > Columbia with the profit on about 528 Skycatchers. > You can bet there > will be plenty of Chinese made rivets in it too. > Isn't there a U.S. > or Canadian made alternative to Avex rivets for our > Zeniths? > Do not archive > > Al Hays 601XL starting fuselage > EAA 0289545 > > On Dec 6, 2007, at 8:49 PM, LarryMcFarland wrote: > > > > > > > > Good evening gentlemen, > > I'd have thought that Cessna had better marketing > sense than to allow > > China to become the manufacturing base for an > aircraft that would > > be sold back to America. > > > > Most of the people of "our generation" that can > afford the plane, > > wouldn't buy any aircraft from > > China on basic moral principals, regardless of > price. No more than > > we'd tolerate buying an automobile > > from China regardless of the American sounding > nameplate on the front. > > Any other friendly country would have been fine, > like England, > > Japan, Poland, Czechoslovakia or Belgium. > > > > *Never from China! *Cessna can keep their plane. > I wouldn't > > devalue my country's financial base that way! > > > > Larry McFarland > > EAA 9008455 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Click on > about > Admin. > > browse > Un/Subscription, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Forums! > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:41 PM PST US From: Ron Lalonde Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Avex Rivets In defence of Chinese made products, (which I agree are inferior on the mos t part) it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested by North American companies!! They produced what was requested, at a price well below of what it could be made in the US or Canada. You get what you pay for. If there is a market for "cheap" you get "cheap" . Avex rivets......if you test them like Zenith Aircraft suggests, it is a safe bet they are ok. Pay your money, and take your chances....who says the UK rivets were any better?? UK hasnt made them for a few years and I haven t seen any reports indicating either positive or negatively. Just something to think about. Ron > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Avex Rivets> From: juhl@avci.net> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:46:07 -0800> To: zenith-list@matronics.com> > --> Zenith-List m essage posted by: "Tim Juhl" > > I've never had a Zenith sup plied rivet leave any of the shank protruding. I got my rivets in June 06 s o they may be some that were made in the UK.> > I've seen a number of probl ems with Chinese built products - poison pet food, bogus drugs and personal products, aluminum that doesn't meet spec, inferior auto parts, lead paint on toys...... pardon me if I'm not a fan of Chinese exports.> > The fact t hat avex rivets are now made in China does not reassure me.> > Tim> > ----- ---> ______________> CFII> Champ L16A flying> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A> Wor king on wings> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matron ====================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Introducing the City @ Live! Take a tour! http://getyourliveid.ca/?icid=LIVEIDENCA006 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:47 PM PST US From: DRAGONFUEL@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" You guys must be living in some time warp. The same factory which will make the Skycatcher also already has made major stuctural parts for the Boeing 757/767 series, some 3,500 Boeings are already flying the airlines with parts from this factory. The new Boeing 787 Dreamliner will be made with major parts (wing leading edges if I recall) from this factory. Airbus Industries also contracts for major parts from this factory. What about Canadian Bombardier Aircraft? Yep, they are contracted to get major components from same factory. Are you going to fly only on aircraft NOT containing Chinese parts? Not Boeing? Not Airbus? Not CRJ's? If you boycott these airliners, what planes will be left? Not much. The only way Cessna can get the price of the 162 down to affordable levels is to contract overseas. Cessna is expanding its US based factories at the same time they make this contract with China. The purchase of Columbia in Oregon is a major show of confidence in American manufacture. Cessna has also recently announced the formation of a new Cessna factory in Columbus, Georgia. This factory will make Cessna parts as well as McCauley (sp?) propeller parts. Seems to me that my Textron Lycoming pistons were made in Brazil. Worried about Textron Avex rivets made in China? Where does that come from? We should all know that they are made in England. What about Zenith? Is it a US company, Canadian, or French? Who cares, the planes are outstanding. By the way my Zodiac 601XL quick build kit was made in Columbia, South America -- mine was #13 out of that factory. What about yours? What about the new AMD Patriot? Also from Columbia. Would I buy a Cessna 162 Skycatcher? I already have $5,000 deposits each on two of them. I will continue to operate Zodiacs, but in a few years, the 162 as well. It will do good things to the general aviation world. Cheers, Bob Archibald, Dragonfly Aviation CH601XL/Lycoming 400 hours as a commercial trainer, and counting. Do Not Archive **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:19 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" Ignoring the question of morality if you start walking around your house and throwing out things made in (or containing something made in) China you will find yourself nearly naked in a very empty house. And of course to be truly pure you should stop using Yahoo and Google as they have aided the Chinese government in putting dissidents in jail. In fact since much of the switching gear for the Internet is made in China for US or other companies I guess you will have to drop of the Internet too. Avoiding China is about as practical as avoiding oxygen or genetically modified food. And disentangling Chinese companies from the Chinese government is best left as a philosophical exercise. -- Craig Certainly do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.