---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/07/07: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:30 AM - Re: Avex Rivets (ashontz) 2. 03:43 AM - China products () 3. 04:37 AM - Re: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" (Bob Unternaehrer) 4. 05:34 AM - Re: On the Skycatcher by (Aaron Gustafson) 5. 06:09 AM - Re: On the Skycatcher by (Rob St Denis) 6. 06:34 AM - Re: China products (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 7. 07:04 AM - Re: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" (Gig Giacona) 8. 07:22 AM - Re: China products (LarryMcFarland) 9. 08:20 AM - Re: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" (Christian Tremblay) 10. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" (Terry Turnquist) 11. 09:16 AM - Re: China products (nyterminat@aol.com) 12. 09:17 AM - Re: Magnetic Cpmpass (Jim Fosse) 13. 09:17 AM - Re: China products (Randy L. Thwing) 14. 09:18 AM - Re: China products (Ron Lalonde) 15. 09:19 AM - Zenith & Can-Zac Aviation Clothing and Logo Wear (ZodieRocket) 16. 09:27 AM - Re: throttle on 701 with 912 (ricklach) 17. 09:57 AM - Re: China products (baileys) 18. 11:21 AM - Re: China products (William Dominguez) 19. 11:34 AM - Re: China products (nyterminat@AOL.COM) 20. 12:02 PM - Re: throttle on 701 with 912 (Klaus Truemper) 21. 12:52 PM - Cabin Heat and Carburetor Heat Box Heat System (Dave Nixon) 22. 12:52 PM - Re: China products (Randy L. Thwing) 23. 01:19 PM - throttle on 701 with 912 (Joe Spencer) 24. 01:25 PM - Re: Cabin Heat and Carburetor Heat Box Heat System (Craig Payne) 25. 01:41 PM - Re: Cabin Heat and Carburetor Heat Box Heat System (John Davis) 26. 03:59 PM - Re: Zenith & Can-Zac Aviation Clothing and Logo Wear (Southern Reflections) 27. 04:35 PM - Re: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" (Southern Reflections) 28. 04:37 PM - Re: China products (Southern Reflections) 29. 04:47 PM - Re: China products (Southern Reflections) 30. 04:48 PM - Re: China products (Southern Reflections) 31. 04:54 PM - Re: China products (Southern Reflections) 32. 07:27 PM - Re: China products (Randy L. Thwing) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:39 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Avex Rivets From: "ashontz" Hurray for globalization!!! NOT!!! I knew NAFTA was a bunch of crap back in 1992, and I was only 23 at the time. I thought to myself then, ok, we're in a recession, I'm finding it difficult to find a job out of college with a usable degree in computer science and Clinton retard is making promises to give even more jobs to foreigners. Bush Sr. and Jr. also helped that along, typicla Republicrats. NAFTA and globalization is nothing more than help for corporate socialists in this country (facists) to make it easier for the top .1% to make even more money under the US flag while first off not even being an actual US company and secondly taking all of those jobs away from Americans and making them work for less at crappy Wal-Mart greeter jobs and then encouraging them to find 'wealth' through borrowing against asset inflation (housing bubble home equity loans). THis country is royally screwed. Call me a nut, but we are at the cusp of a second Greater Depression and this credit crunch and housing slump are just the tip of the iceberg. These globalization/trade deficit created debts are now coming due with deflation in create leveraged assets (housing) and inflation in everything else you need, particularly commodities. The only candidate that's addressing any of this is Ron Paul, running as a Republican (because he;s always been a REAL conservative not a NeoCon) but a Libertarian at heart. Think first before you vote this time around. I know there's older guys on here so this one may bring it a little closer to home for you. If you think you're safe for retirement and invested well, think again. Look at your investment mutual funds. Most of them are tainted with a lot of what's called commercial paper and mortgage backed securities. Wallstreet has been packaging these crappy subprime loans along with other supposedly safe investments and calling it all AAA rated which is what pension funds are only allowed to buy. The pension funds then are expecting a safe return as well as the share value of that fund to always be equal to $1. Well, now that housing is going in the crapper, those fund shares have an indeterminate value (meaning their crap). Google Florida Fund. Their whole pension and munipal funds system is all screwed up right now as will many others be. Rant off. [quote="rlalonde"]In defence of Chinese made products, (which I agree are inferior on the most part) it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the lead paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested by North American companies!! They produced what was requested, at a price well below of what it could be made in the US or Canada. You get what you pay for. If there is a market for "cheap" you get "cheap". Avex rivets......if you test them like Zenith Aircraft suggests, it is a safe bet they are ok. Pay your money, and take your chances....who says the UK rivets were any better?? UK hasnt made them for a few years and I havent seen any reports indicating either positive or negatively. Just something to think about. Ron > Subject: Re: Avex Rivets > From: juhl@avci.net > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:46:07 -0800 > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > > I've never had a Zenith supplied rivet leave any of the shank protruding. I got my rivets in June 06 so they may be some that were made in the UK. > > I've seen a number of problems with Chinese built products - poison pet food, bogus drugs and personal products, aluminum that doesn't meet spec, inferior auto parts, lead paint on toys...... pardon me if I'm not a fan of Chinese exports. > > The fact that avex rivets are now made in China does not reassure me. > > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Working on wings > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150924#150924 > > > > > > > &====================== > &g======================= > > > > > HO HO HO, if you've been naughty this year, email Santa! Visit asksanta.ca to learn more! > [b] -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150963#150963 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:05 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: China products Ron, Are you saying that the North American Companies specified lead paint??.....c'mon! Rich H "it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested by North American companies!!" ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:58 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" I wasn't awayre that a specific country of origin had been selected. Last news release simply said it would not be made in usa and that multiple sites were being considered. bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: LarryMcFarland To: ehotline@eaa.org ; zenith-list Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 7:49 PM Subject: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" Good evening gentlemen, I'd have thought that Cessna had better marketing sense than to allow China to become the manufacturing base for an aircraft that would be sold back to America. Most of the people of "our generation" that can afford the plane, wouldn't buy any aircraft from China on basic moral principals, regardless of price. No more than we'd tolerate buying an automobile from China regardless of the American sounding nameplate on the front. Any other friendly country would have been fine, like England, Japan, Poland, Czechoslovakia or Belgium. *Never from China! *Cessna can keep their plane. I wouldn't devalue my country's financial base that way! Larry McFarland EAA 9008455 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:38 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by I agree 100% with Larry. We're depriving people here of good jobs by sending so much to China. The attitude is "money rules, throw everything else out". Aaron Gustafson ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:34 AM PST US From: "Rob St Denis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by its all because the people at the top are those benefiting on the short term. They save so much cash by having stuff built by $3/day chinese as opposed to $200/day westerners. The problem of course is it's not sustainable. People lose their jobs here so things can be built overseas, this cuts the local customer base and the bottom falls out from under the company. Of course the guys at the top have made their money by then, so they don't care. On 12/7/07, Aaron Gustafson wrote: > > I agree 100% with Larry. We're depriving people here of good jobs by > sending so much to China. The attitude is "money rules, throw everything > else out". > > Aaron Gustafson > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:02 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products My father works in the Lab at General Electric and a lot of the water coolers are made in China to the American specs but about every 6 months they have to find out why the water cooler has a bad odor or bad tasting water. And it is always that China has changed a part or gasket or o-ring that no one asked them to Now we see the paint issue. I think most of the China made things in my house won't kill me but I wouldn't want to trust China to use the proper materials in building my airplane because they have proven they just do what they want with our things. So go ahead and order your nice new airplanes from China but don't whine when you find out that the parts that were supposed to go in them weren't used, and then I guess Cessna will apologize to China just like Mattel did. Jeff In a message dated 12/7/2007 6:44:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, hart701@charter.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron, Are you saying that the North American Companies specified lead paint??.....c'mon! Rich H "it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested by North American companies!!" **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:36 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" From: "Gig Giacona" This entire conversation is off topic for this forum. Please take it over to rec.aviation.*, though we had the discussion there a week or two ago. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150987#150987 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:57 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Good LSA aircraft and components are built in other countries and I have no problem with that. I watched the machine tool industry and the materials base go overseas years ago but the aggressive position that China's leaders are taking puts this country in jeopardy. I'd predict this will bottom out in less than 5 years when the dollar is busted and China decides to take over all large business assets in this country. Our special interest leaderships, like Cessna, Chrysler etc, seem to be preparing for this as an inevitability and it's happening much faster than anyone seems aware. Larry do not archive Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote: > My father works in the Lab at General Electric and a lot of the water > coolers are made in China to the American specs but about every 6 > months they have to find out why the water cooler has a bad odor or > bad tasting water. And it is always that China has changed a part or > gasket or o-ring that no one asked them to Now we see the paint issue. > I think most of the China made things in my house won't kill me but I > wouldn't want to trust China to use the proper materials in building > my airplane because they have proven they just do what they want > with our things. So go ahead and order your nice new airplanes from > China but don't whine when you find out that the parts that were > supposed to go in them weren't used, and then I guess Cessna will > apologize to China just like Mattel did. > > Jeff > > In a message dated 12/7/2007 6:44:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > hart701@charter.net writes: > > > Ron, > Are you saying that the North American Companies specified lead > paint??.....c'mon! > Rich H > > "it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le > ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering > requested > by North American p; sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find > you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ===================== > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:27 AM PST US From: Christian Tremblay Subject: RE: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" I agree with you. But Chinese peoples, in China, have a chance to became the big future market for this plane. Do we will see what happens with cars ? Christian Tremblay A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan http://www.zodiac640.com/ -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de LarryMcFarland Envoy: Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:49 PM : ehotline@eaa.org; zenith-list Objet: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" Good evening gentlemen, I'd have thought that Cessna had better marketing sense than to allow China to become the manufacturing base for an aircraft that would be sold back to America. Most of the people of "our generation" that can afford the plane, wouldn't buy any aircraft from China on basic moral principals, regardless of price. No more than we'd tolerate buying an automobile from China regardless of the American sounding nameplate on the front. Any other friendly country would have been fine, like England, Japan, Poland, Czechoslovakia or Belgium. *Never from China! *Cessna can keep their plane. I wouldn't devalue my country's financial base that way! Larry McFarland EAA 9008455 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:47 AM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" None of this makes me as mad as when they withdrew Pluto's status as a planet! What will they do next? do not archive Terry This entire conversation is off topic for this forum. Please take it over to rec.aviation.*, though we had the discussion there a week or two ago. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150987#150987 --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products From: nyterminat@aol.com A friend of mine works for a testing lab much like UL, he has gone to China to investigate why products?failed after getting their testing approval. Well it turns out that things that were made in China for the US were being copied by the Chinese and sold as the tested product with forged labels. When they tried to locate the factory that was making the knock off items they were either closed or making some other product. They use factories like a shell game where they will move a whole assembly line to another factory location just to avoid detection. This seems to be a standard game to them and their government is so corrupt that they will not enforce anything because a lot of them are being paid off. I know an acquaintance in China who is a US citizen that constantly gets frustrated by their lying just to save face mentality. It is part of the culture and I? doubt that it will change because they are building an airplane. Bob My father works in the Lab at General Electric and a lot of the water coolers are made in China to the American specs but about every 6 months they have to find out why the water cooler has a bad odor or bad tasting water. And it is always that China has changed a part or gasket or o-ring that no one asked them to Now we see the paint issue. I think most of the China made things in my house won't kill me but I wouldn't want to trust China to use the proper materials in building my airplane because they have proven they just do what they want with?our things. So go ahead and order your nice new airplanes from China but don't whine when you find out that the parts that were supposed to go in them weren't used, and then I guess Cessna will apologize?to China just like Mattel did.? ? Jeff ? In a message dated 12/7/2007 6:44:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, hart701@charter.net writes: Ron, Are you saying that the North American Companies specified lead paint??.....c'mon! Rich H "it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested by North American p; sp; ? ? ? ?? (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Matt Dralle, List he es y ? --> ? ? ? ? ? ?? - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ===================== hottest products and top money wasters of 2007. -----Original Message----- From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Sent: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 7:09 am Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products My father works in the Lab at General Electric and a lot of the water coolers are made in China to the American specs but about every 6 months they have to find out why the water cooler has a bad odor or bad tasting water. And it is always that China has changed a part or gasket or o-ring that no one asked them to Now we see the paint issue. I think most of the China made things in my house won't kill me but I wouldn't want to trust China to use the proper materials in building my airplane because they have proven they just do what they want with?our things. So go ahead and order your nice new airplanes from China but don't whine when you find out that the parts that were supposed to go in them weren't used, and then I guess Cessna will apologize?to China just like Mattel did.? ? Jeff ? In a message dated 12/7/2007 6:44:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, hart701@charter.net writes: Ron, Are you saying that the North American Companies specified lead paint??.....c'mon! Rich H "it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested by North American p; sp; ? ? ? ?? (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Matt Dralle, List he es y ? --> ? ? ? ? ? ?? - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ===================== hottest products and top money wasters of 2007. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:07 AM PST US From: "Jim Fosse" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Magnetic Cpmpass FWIW, my experience with the magnetic compass in my 701: First ordered the Falcon (I think) vertical card compass and it was back ordered for months. Frustrated, I ordered the TSO'd PAI vertical card compass. I first mounted it on the glare shield and it went bonkers. Removed it and moved it around in the cabin until I could find a location where it would settle down. It wound up on the fwd overhead horizontal tube and it works great in that position. I fabricated an aluminum mount and secured it with two 8/32 screws, drilled and tapped, to the tube. Would strongly suggest exploring the cabin for location with the compass you will mount before permanently (welding) a fixture. Jim Fosse N329F ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:31 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Do not archive I wish that everyone who is concerned with China was as concerned about OUR Governments (Fed, State, Local) regulation and tax systems driving business away. With nearly 50% of our population employed by a Government of some sort, China or not, we're heading for trouble. Request for clarification. If China owns everything and busts the dollar, who will they sell to? Who will be able to buy anything? And, does anyone on this list list own a tool from Harbor Freight? Rivet guns come to mind? Best Regards, Randy, Las Vegas > less than 5 years when the dollar is > busted ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:46 AM PST US From: Ron Lalonde Subject: RE: Zenith-List: China products I dont wanna get into a big argument...this is the Zenith list. Dont forget boys...if someone from North America ordered "Zenith aircraft p arts" from China (for a cheapo price) what would the quality be like?? You get what you pay for. Copycat producers of Zenith aircraft are doing the s ame thing as China....and they have a market....but quality metal/material. ...I doubt it. No one complains of cheaply made products when they are paying for them...j ust when they fail to live up to the expectaions of comparitive quality pro ducts they were designed after. Buy from Zenith if you want to be sure of t he quaility. OR test the material you purchase using empirical standards wi th cost not being a consideration.. Lets get real!!T he toys that had lead paint and were exported to the State s were designed and purchased by a North American market. No...they didnt s ay "make sure to paint with toxic lead paint" but they (designers etc)stipu lated that they wanted the toys inexpensively (Cheap junk in other words) s o they were made with the cheapest material available., and overstocked and inexpensive lead paint was used. Thus, this is the reason these toys made it over here....lead paint and al l. Obviously they are not going to make inferior products with superior materi al. You get what you pay for. This is NOT new, it has been happening for years. Chinese products will always be around, as long as the North American marke t supports it. So come on.....we cant blame China, when it is US/Canada that in a large pa rt drives and supports the market!!! Go into any store and you will easily see the light. Avex rivets..........think about it and make sure to test them...Just like ZAC advises. Ron. > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 03:37:09 -0800> From: hart701@charter.net> To: zeni th-list@matronics.com> Subject: Zenith-List: China products> > --> Zenith-L ist message posted by: > > Ron,> Are you saying that t he North American Companies specified lead paint??.....c'mon!> Rich H> > "i t had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le > ad pai nt on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested > by ============> > > _________________________________________________________________ Use fowl language with Chicktionary. Click here to start playing! http://puzzles.sympatico.msn.ca/chicktionary/index.html?icid=htmlsig ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:49 AM PST US From: "ZodieRocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith & Can-Zac Aviation Clothing and Logo Wear Hi Guys, I am just writing a note to say Thanks to all who have ordered from the HYPERLINK "http://can-zacaviation.promoshop.com/"Promo Store and to let the rest of you know that the Christmas cutoff is fast approaching. This is your last weekend to have your Logo Wear under the tree! HYPERLINK "http://can-zacaviation.promoshop.com/"HYPERLINK "http://can-zacaviation.promoshop.com/"HYPERLINK "http://can-zacaviation.promoshop.com/" Some of you have not visited the shop yet or shown your family what you want for Christmas. HYPERLINK "http://can-zacaviation.promoshop.com/"HYPERLINK "http://can-zacaviation.promoshop.com/"HYPERLINK "http://can-zacaviation.promoshop.com/" This shop was setup after almost a year and a half of ongoing work to fulfill the requests of the builders who came to me every year asking for an expanded clothing line. So far in 3 weeks the website counter has seen 145 visits, I have had far more requests for the store then that and if we factor in the curious viewer then I really would have expected more. Please have a visit over the weekend. Look at the product, even if you do not wish to have a shirt or jacket with your call letters under the Zenith Logo, how about a shop mug, or the new Sandwich Bill Hat! Alternatively, just have a visit and let me know what you think! Monday Dec 10th is Cut off Date to have your order under the Christmas Tree. We are shipping by Express Post now for cost savings over courier, but time is a factor!! HYPERLINK "http://can-zacaviation.promoshop.com/"Visit the Zenith Wear Shop now HYPERLINK "http://can-zacaviation.promoshop.com/"Visit the Can-Zac Aviation Logo wear shop. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. 12/6/2007 11:15 PM ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: throttle on 701 with 912 From: "ricklach" Hi Joe, I have been considering making the change you and Klaus have made. Would it be possible for you to post some pictures of your installation? Thank You Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151015#151015 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:12 AM PST US From: "baileys" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Good point, not to mention the overzealous inspectors from EEOC, OSHA, Natural Resources, labor relations board, etc.etc. I spent most of my adult life in Mfg. and you do not want to offend any of these guys. The are litigious, hostile, nit pickers who think you are the lowest form of life. Of course both management and the labor unions share the blame too. BTW I have several HF tools and I would much prefer American Made, but it is almost non-exsistent. Even American name brands come from China. Bob B. Do not archive I wish that everyone who is concerned with China was as concerned about OUR Governments (Fed, State, Local) regulation and tax systems driving business away. With nearly 50% of our population employed by a Government of some sort, China or not, we're heading for trouble. Request for clarification. If China owns everything and busts the dollar, who will they sell to? Who will be able to buy anything? And, does anyone on this list list own a tool from Harbor Freight? Rivet guns come to mind? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:02 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products I think this is the REAL reason why business are outsourcing to China: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/2139401.stm It would be really tough for American workers to compete with people working under such conditions, no matter how much you deregulate labor in this country. I don't know you guys but I would never want to see any American employee working under such conditions. William Dominguez Obviously do not archive baileys wrote: Good point, not to mention the overzealous inspectors from EEOC, OSHA, Natural Resources, labor relations board, etc.etc. I spent most of my adult life in Mfg. and you do not want to offend any of these guys. The are litigious, hostile, nit pickers who think you are the lowest form of life. Of course both management and the labor unions share the blame too. BTW I have several HF tools and I would much prefer American Made, but it is almost non-exsistent. Even American name brands come from China. Bob B. Do not archive I wish that everyone who is concerned with China was as concerned about OUR Governments (Fed, State, Local) regulation and tax systems driving business away. With nearly 50% of our population employed by a Government of some sort, China or not, we're heading for trouble. Request for clarification. If China owns everything and busts the dollar, who will they sell to? Who will be able to buy anything? And, does anyone on this list list own a tool from Harbor Freight? Rivet guns come to mind? ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products From: nyterminat@AOL.COM Randy, You are right, I believe all the Craftsman tools are now made in China too. do not archive If China owns everything and busts the dollar, who will they sell to? Who will be able to buy anything? And, does anyone on this list list own a tool from Harbor Freight? Rivet guns come to mind? Best Regards, Randy, Las Vegas -----Original Message----- From: Randy L. Thwing Sent: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:46 am Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Do not archive I wish that everyone who is concerned with China was as concerned about OUR Governments (Fed, State, Local) regulation and tax systems driving business away. With nearly 50% of our population employed by a Government of some sort, China or not, we're heading for trouble. Request for clarification. If China owns everything and busts the dollar, who will they sell to? Who will be able to buy anything? And, does anyone on this list list own a tool from Harbor Freight? Rivet guns come to mind? Best Regards, Randy, Las Vegas > less than 5 years when the dollar is > busted ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:54 PM PST US From: Klaus Truemper Subject: Zenith-List: Re: throttle on 701 with 912 Hi Joe, We had been in touch about the rod system for the throttles. Maybe you did install something similar to our system. But no matter what, it's great to read that you got rid of the the cable problem. For anybody interested in the carburetor linkage we are using, the details are shown at http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/linkage_carburetors.html Happy flying, Klaus -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus@utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:51 PM PST US From: "Dave Nixon" Subject: Zenith-List: Cabin Heat and Carburetor Heat Box Heat System I am trying to finish up the exhaust kit to supply heat to the cabin and carb boxes. Unfortunately, the Jabiru Install manual is a little light in this area. I have one tray with two outlets (1-2" & 1- 2 1/2") that is to be mounted t o the muffler and another piece, similar in appearance with just a single outlet on it. How do these get mounted? I figured that there would have to some forced air from the NACAs but for the life of me I can't get it work ed out. Any one have any pictures of this part of the install? I could fin d noth ing in the manuals. Can some one lead me there? Thanks, Dave Nixon CH601XL Jabiru 3300 92% Done 85% To Go ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:51 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Do not archive Craftsman tools WERE made by the conglomerate; Danaher Corp which still owns/makes the following brands: Allen Armstrong Tools GearWrench Holo-Krome Iseli K-D Tools Matco Tools Sata Spline Gauges They also own Jacobs Chucks. Craftsman is now missing from their list, I'm sure you are right about where they are now made. http://www.danaher.com/business/strategic_detail.asp?key=12 Regards, Randy, Las Vegas Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Randy, You are right, I believe all the Craftsman tools are now made in China too. do not archive If China owns everything and busts the dollar, who will they sell to? Who will be able to buy anything? And, does anyone on this list list own a tool from Harbor Freight? Rivet guns come to mind? Best Regards, Randy, Las Vegas ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:26 PM PST US From: "Joe Spencer" Subject: Zenith-List: throttle on 701 with 912 Dr Klaus I installed a similar setup to yours. Only difference was I used 3/16 chromoly rod instead of the aluminum tube...because that's what I had on hand. Works great...no more throttle aggravation. Thanks a lot. Joe ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:06 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cabin Heat and Carburetor Heat Box Heat System The one with two hose connections is for your cabin heat. One side draws from a NACA vent so that your heated cabin heat comes from fresh air. The other side goes to the cabin heat selector box. The NACA vent provides the pressure to push the air through to the cabin. To keep the hose runs short make sure you mount the selector box on the firewall on the opposite side of the plane from the NACA vent. Look here for some guidance on the installation: http://www.usjabiru.com/Zenith%20fwf_files/Cabin%20Heat.pdf The other tray with the single hose connection is for carb heat. It simple draws air from inside of the cowl. It doesn't need pressure as the engine sucks air in. Now for the (possible) bad news: the size of the inlet or outlet on the cabin heat tray may not match what the other end of the hose goes to. If your FWF kit came from Jabiru USA in TN then they shipped some where one end or the other doesn't match the part at the other end of the hose. I can't remember if it is the selector box or the NACA vent. If the cabin heat selector box and NACA vent are both 2 inch then Jabiru USA will swap your tray for one that has 2 inch fittings at both ends. Call Dana and tell her what you have. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nixon Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Cabin Heat and Carburetor Heat Box Heat System I am trying to finish up the exhaust kit to supply heat to the cabin and carb boxes. Unfortunately, the Jabiru Install manual is a little light in this area. I have one tray with two outlets (1-2" & 1- 2 1/2") that is to be mounted to the muffler and another piece, similar in appearance with just a single outlet on it. How do these get mounted? I figured that there would have to some forced air from the NACAs but for the life of me I can't get it worked out. Any one have any pictures of this part of the install? I could find noth ing in the manuals. Can some one lead me there? Thanks, Dave Nixon CH601XL Jabiru 3300 92% Done 85% To Go ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:20 PM PST US From: John Davis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cabin Heat and Carburetor Heat Box Heat System To add to Craigs response, the new cowlings that Jabiru USA are shipping are different from the one in the PDF and have a vent on either side of the cowling and not both on the left side as in the PDF photos. John Davis Burnsville, NC 601XL - Jab 3300 Craig Payne wrote: > > The one with two hose connections is for your cabin heat. One side > draws from a NACA vent so that your heated cabin heat comes from fresh > air. The other side goes to the cabin heat selector box. The NACA vent > provides the pressure to push the air through to the cabin. To keep > the hose runs short make sure you mount the selector box on the > firewall on the opposite side of the plane from the NACA vent. Look > here for some guidance on the installation: > > http://www.usjabiru.com/Zenith%20fwf_files/Cabin%20Heat.pdf > > The other tray with the single hose connection is for carb heat. It > simple draws air from inside of the cowl. It doesn't need pressure as > the engine sucks air in. > > Now for the (possible) bad news: the size of the inlet or outlet on > the cabin heat tray may not match what the other end of the hose goes > to. If your FWF kit came from Jabiru USA in TN then they shipped some > where one end or the other doesn't match the part at the other end of > the hose. I can't remember if it is the selector box or the NACA vent. > If the cabin heat selector box and NACA vent are both 2 inch then > Jabiru USA will swap your tray for one that has 2 inch fittings at > both ends. Call Dana and tell her what you have. > > -- Craig > > *From:* owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave Nixon > *Sent:* Friday, December 07, 2007 1:51 PM > *To:* zenith-list-digest@matronics.com > *Subject:* Zenith-List: Cabin Heat and Carburetor Heat Box Heat System > > > > I am trying to finish up the exhaust kit to supply heat to the cabin > and carb boxes. > > Unfortunately, the Jabiru Install manual is a little light in this > area. I have one tray with two outlets (1-2" & 1- 2 1/2") that is to > be mounted to the muffler and another piece, similar in appearance > with just a single outlet on it. How do these get mounted? I figured > that there would have to some forced air from the NACAs but for the > life of me I can't get it worked out. Any one have any pictures of > this part of the install? I could find noth ing in the manuals. Can > some one lead me there? > > Thanks, Dave Nixon > > CH601XL Jabiru 3300 92% Done 85% To Go > > > > > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List* > ** > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > * * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:00 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith & Can-Zac Aviation Clothing and Logo Wear Whwn is zenith going to set a shop up in the USA ? Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: ZodieRocket To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:55 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith & Can-Zac Aviation Clothing and Logo Wear Hi Guys, I am just writing a note to say Thanks to all who have ordered from the Promo Store and to let the rest of you know that the Christmas cutoff is fast approaching. This is your last weekend to have your Logo Wear under the tree! Some of you have not visited the shop yet or shown your family what you want for Christmas. This shop was setup after almost a year and a half of ongoing work to fulfill the requests of the builders who came to me every year asking for an expanded clothing line. So far in 3 weeks the website counter has seen 145 visits, I have had far more requests for the store then that and if we factor in the curious viewer then I really would have expected more. Please have a visit over the weekend. Look at the product, even if you do not wish to have a shirt or jacket with your call letters under the Zenith Logo, how about a shop mug, or the new Sandwich Bill Hat! Alternatively, just have a visit and let me know what you think! Monday Dec 10th is Cut off Date to have your order under the Christmas Tree. We are shipping by Express Post now for cost savings over courier, but time is a factor!! Visit the Zenith Wear Shop now Visit the Can-Zac Aviation Logo wear shop. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. 12/6/2007 11:15 PM ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:50 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" yep ! that 's it ... buy cheap , China ! sell high USA ... same old story Buy cheap, Czech Republic ! sell high USA... The only way you can inprove those odd is ... to buy Cheap, China ,ship to Canada And then ....sell to people in the USA ! Think ..! about it China, can't even make safe toys. We should buy airplanes from them ? Mabye we should see if we could get them to make us a bach of parachutes and life jackets with our N number on them., they would be cheap,That is if you have them shipped direct to USA,and not to Canada first.... Think about it while you're poping those rivets Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Tremblay" Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" > > > I agree with you. But Chinese peoples, in China, have a chance to became > the > big future market for this plane. Do we will see what happens with cars ? > > > Christian Tremblay > A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan > http://www.zodiac640.com/ > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de > LarryMcFarland > Envoy : Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:49 PM > : ehotline@eaa.org; zenith-list > Objet : Zenith-List: On the Skycatcher by "Cessna" > > > Good evening gentlemen, > I'd have thought that Cessna had better marketing sense than to allow > China to become the manufacturing base for an aircraft that would be > sold back to America. > > Most of the people of "our generation" that can afford the plane, > wouldn't buy any aircraft from > China on basic moral principals, regardless of price. No more than we'd > tolerate buying an automobile > from China regardless of the American sounding nameplate on the front. > > Any other friendly country would have been fine, like England, Japan, > Poland, Czechoslovakia or Belgium. > > *Never from China! *Cessna can keep their plane. I wouldn't devalue my > country's financial base that way! > > Larry McFarland > EAA 9008455 > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:05 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Larry, you are 100% correct....Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products > > Good LSA aircraft and components are built in other countries and I have > no problem > with that. I watched the machine tool industry and the materials base > go overseas years ago > but the aggressive position that China's leaders are taking puts this > country in jeopardy. > I'd predict this will bottom out in less than 5 years when the dollar is > busted and > China decides to take over all large business assets in this country. > Our special interest > leaderships, like Cessna, Chrysler etc, seem to be preparing for this as > an inevitability > and it's happening much faster than anyone seems aware. > > Larry > do not archive > > Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote: >> My father works in the Lab at General Electric and a lot of the water >> coolers are made in China to the American specs but about every 6 >> months they have to find out why the water cooler has a bad odor or >> bad tasting water. And it is always that China has changed a part or >> gasket or o-ring that no one asked them to Now we see the paint issue. >> I think most of the China made things in my house won't kill me but I >> wouldn't want to trust China to use the proper materials in building >> my airplane because they have proven they just do what they want >> with our things. So go ahead and order your nice new airplanes from >> China but don't whine when you find out that the parts that were >> supposed to go in them weren't used, and then I guess Cessna will >> apologize to China just like Mattel did. >> >> Jeff >> >> In a message dated 12/7/2007 6:44:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> hart701@charter.net writes: >> >> >> Ron, >> Are you saying that the North American Companies specified lead >> paint??.....c'mon! >> Rich H >> >> "it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le >> ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering >> requested >> by North American p; sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find >> you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ===================== >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:36 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products How about the phoney drug there flooding the market with,they look just like the one's made in this country, except they's been killing people. The bad part of the story is they were bought by american drug sales men and sliped in to the supply with the real ones....Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: nyterminat@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products A friend of mine works for a testing lab much like UL, he has gone to China to investigate why products failed after getting their testing approval. Well it turns out that things that were made in China for the US were being copied by the Chinese and sold as the tested product with forged labels. When they tried to locate the factory that was making the knock off items they were either closed or making some other product. They use factories like a shell game where they will move a whole assembly line to another factory location just to avoid detection. This seems to be a standard game to them and their government is so corrupt that they will not enforce anything because a lot of them are being paid off. I know an acquaintance in China who is a US citizen that constantly gets frustrated by their lying just to save face mentality. It is part of the culture and I doubt that it will change because they are building an airplane. Bob My father works in the Lab at General Electric and a lot of the water coolers are made in China to the American specs but about every 6 months they have to find out why the water cooler has a bad odor or bad tasting water. And it is always that China has changed a part or gasket or o-ring that no one asked them to Now we see the paint issue. I think most of the China made things in my house won't kill me but I wouldn't want to trust China to use the proper materials in building my airplane because they have proven they just do what they want with our things. So go ahead and order your nice new airplanes from China but don't whine when you find out that the parts that were supposed to go in them weren't used, and then I guess Cessna will apologize to China just like Mattel did. Jeff In a message dated 12/7/2007 6:44:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, hart701@charter.net writes: Ron, Are you saying that the North American Companies specified lead paint??.....c'mon! Rich H "it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested by North American p; sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ===================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- hottest products and top money wasters of 2007. -----Original Message----- From: Afterfxllc@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 7:09 am Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products My father works in the Lab at General Electric and a lot of the water coolers are made in China to the American specs but about every 6 months they have to find out why the water cooler has a bad odor or bad tasting water. And it is always that China has changed a part or gasket or o-ring that no one asked them to Now we see the paint issue. I think most of the China made things in my house won't kill me but I wouldn't want to trust China to use the proper materials in building my airplane because they have proven they just do what they want with our things. So go ahead and order your nice new airplanes from China but don't whine when you find out that the parts that were supposed to go in them weren't used, and then I guess Cessna will apologize to China just like Mattel did. Jeff In a message dated 12/7/2007 6:44:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, hart701@charter.net writes: Ron, Are you saying that the North American Companies specified lead paint??.....c'mon! Rich H "it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested by North American p; sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt Dralle, List he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ===================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- hottest products and top money wasters of 2007. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:52 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products I say BUY AMERICAN or BY AMERICA>>>>> Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: baileys To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Good point, not to mention the overzealous inspectors from EEOC, OSHA, Natural Resources, labor relations board, etc.etc. I spent most of my adult life in Mfg. and you do not want to offend any of these guys. The are litigious, hostile, nit pickers who think you are the lowest form of life. Of course both management and the labor unions share the blame too. BTW I have several HF tools and I would much prefer American Made, but it is almost non-exsistent. Even American name brands come from China. Bob B. Do not archive I wish that everyone who is concerned with China was as concerned about OUR Governments (Fed, State, Local) regulation and tax systems driving business away. With nearly 50% of our population employed by a Government of some sort, China or not, we're heading for trouble. Request for clarification. If China owns everything and busts the dollar, who will they sell to? Who will be able to buy anything? And, does anyone on this list list own a tool from Harbor Freight? Rivet guns come to mind? ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:27 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Randy,I am as guilty as every one when it comes to Harbor Freight ,I going to clean all that crap out of my tool box tomorrow.....Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy L. Thwing To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 3:52 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Do not archive Craftsman tools WERE made by the conglomerate; Danaher Corp which still owns/makes the following brands: Allen Armstrong Tools GearWrench Holo-Krome Iseli K-D Tools Matco Tools Sata Spline Gauges They also own Jacobs Chucks. Craftsman is now missing from their list, I'm sure you are right about where they are now made. http://www.danaher.com/business/strategic_detail.asp?key=12 Regards, Randy, Las Vegas Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Randy, You are right, I believe all the Craftsman tools are now made in China too. do not archive If China owns everything and busts the dollar, who will they sell to? Who will be able to buy anything? And, does anyone on this list list own a tool from Harbor Freight? Rivet guns come to mind? Best Regards, Randy, Las Vegas ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:17 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Do not archive You're not guilty of anything Joe and keep your HF tools. The point is that you can't make a big point of swearing off Chinese tools and A/C parts while all the shoes your family wears, half your car parts, the Christmas lights decorating your home & tree, and a lot (not all) of the stuff sold at Wal-Mart and Kmart also comes from China. We all need to brush up on economics. Go to economist www.walterewilliams.com and read everything on his site. If Harbor Freight's China foundry wants to cast a 55 lb. anvil out of mined cast iron, take a machining cut across the top, package it and ship it halfway around the world to sell to us for $24.95 on sale, it allows all of us to have a anvil in our shop. The pendulum is actually swinging back our way. Price pressure is starting to affect Chinese products. For example; the Chinese produced a drill bit for one dollar three years ago when their workers made 33 cents a hour. Now high speed steel has doubled in price and although still cheap, their labor now costs 66 cents per hour. Yet they have trained the world to pay only one dollar for this drill bit. The price pressure causes them to try to hold that price so they try to cut everywhere else from materials to process with the result being quality suffers. Now the product that was of marginal quality is now unusable so if they fail every time you quit buying. I have noticed this on industrial products. So for many items, I have quite buying imports and have started buying "made in USA" again. Importing from China only pays if you are making a commodity type item in huge quantities, month after month, shipment after shipment. If you need a small variation from the norm, they aren't interested. Have the Chinese jumped in and started making Jabiru engines? I buy from HF all the time, but am very selective as to what I buy. Some items are pure junk, some are usable for very light duty, some actually work very well. A lot of their tools are good for very infrequent use. In the long run, they don't hold up. HF sockets have worked well for me. Their wrenches are clumsy clubs. Their electric tools usually don't hold up and aren't that much cheaper than the major brands at Home Depot. Buy a set of their tru-arc ring pliers and the points may snap off with their first use. I bought a gear puller set and with the first use, I pulled the threads out of the center, no heat treatment I guess? I bought a auto-darkening welding helmet from them that works fine. Their air tools are competitive with other imports. The whole picture is very complex and the above is a very quick overview of just a few aspects of the subject. Regards and Apologies, Randy, Las Vegas P.S.: Wal-Mart sells a line of spray paint for $ .99 each. Made in USA! It includes: A metal can, a lithographed label, a plastic nozzle, a plastic cap, the paint, the propellant and a rattle ball along with American effort to put it all together. How can this be? ----- Original Message ----- From: Southern Reflections To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 4:53 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Randy,I am as guilty as every one when it comes to Harbor Freight ,I going to clean all that crap out of my tool box tomorrow.....Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy L. Thwing To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 3:52 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: China products Do not archive Craftsman tools WERE made by the conglomerate; Danaher Corp which still owns/makes the following brands: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.