Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:07 AM - Re: Re: Drill bits - recommendations (Gary Ray)
2. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Riveting (Jaybannist@cs.com)
3. 06:05 AM - RE : Re: First time builder, need some advice :) (Jean-Paul Roy)
4. 06:17 AM - Re: First time builder, need some advice :) ()
5. 08:09 AM - Re: Alternative Power Systems for GA? (Gig Giacona)
6. 08:14 AM - Re: 601 steering slot cure (Gig Giacona)
7. 09:09 AM - New Crazy Guy - Hi Everyone! (Iberplanes)
8. 09:13 AM - Re: First time builder, need some advice :) (Iberplanes)
9. 09:31 AM - Re: Header Tank Wanted (Iberplanes)
10. 11:18 AM - Re: 701 engine (Iberplanes)
11. 11:20 AM - Re: First time builder, need some advice :) (jelveh)
12. 11:24 AM - Re: Sealed Batteries -- AGM or Gell (Clive Richards)
13. 11:29 AM - Re: First time builder, need some advice :) (Iberplanes)
14. 11:40 AM - Re: Re: 601 steering slot cure (Craig Payne)
15. 12:06 PM - Re: New Crazy Guy - Hi Everyone! (Tim Juhl)
16. 12:34 PM - Re: 601 steering slot cure ()
17. 12:41 PM - Re: Header Tank Wanted (Gig Giacona)
18. 01:42 PM - 701 strut cuff alignment (Joe Spencer)
19. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress (dingfelder)
20. 02:26 PM - Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress (Gig Giacona)
21. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: 601 steering slot cure (George Swinford)
22. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: 601 steering slot cure (Bryan Martin)
23. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress (Gary Ray)
24. 03:48 PM - Re: Re: Alternative Power Systems for GA? (Bryan Martin)
25. 03:55 PM - Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress (Gig Giacona)
26. 04:24 PM - Re: Drills and Drill press recommendations (Dave Nixon)
27. 04:25 PM - chat night (leinad)
28. 05:08 PM - Re: Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
29. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress (Craig Payne)
30. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: Drill bits - recommendations (DICK WILBERS)
31. 07:12 PM - Re: Drill bits - recommendations (Randy L. Thwing)
32. 10:20 PM - Re:First time builder, need some advice:) (MaxNr@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Drill bits - recommendations |
All drill bits are not the same. Many require much higher feed pressures
even though they cost 3X.
I found a huge difference between the standard High speed black steel bits
that are the most common and inexpensive vs the high end triple price bits
that are more optimized for harder metals. Also supply houses do not seem
to know there is a difference so they will sell a bit that requires such a
high feed pressure that they will dent the thin base metal before starting
the cut.
I had the best luck with sharp standard high speed black steel bit from Home
Depo. Always start with a small bit 3/32 and work your way up. A higher
RPM produces less burring of the hole. A good hole is made with the right
bit and feed pressure.
At $1.68 each replace them when dull. I used about 24 1/8 inch bits for the
entire aircraft and 12 - 5/16 inch and 24 - 3/32 inch. Plus a 1/8 x 18 inch
bit and one 5/16 x 18 inch bit and a set of very short bits that came with a
flex drive for those tight fit or retrofit areas that need to be drilled out
and redone.
The air tools are nice because the RPM is higher but I have to admit that I
used the cordless drill a lot.
Other items include:
A bandsaw with a wide throat, a Delta 8 inch disc sander w/ a 1 inch x 42
inch belt sander, a deep throated drill press, a good fly cutter, rapid
deburring tools, and several sizes of fine toothed files, a good vise, three
good levels (2 foot, 4 foot, and laser), 4,8,& 12 foot straight edge of
aluminum strips w/ marks for 20mm 30mm 40mm, 50mm rivet spacing, metric tape
measure, english tape measure, good Weiss metal shears, Olfa knife, lots of
clamps and clecos, and and a perfectly flat and square 14 foot x 4 foot
table. I had the pneumatic rivet puller and preferred the hand pullers even
on bigger jobs. It takes about one hour to actually do the final riveting
of one entire wing surface by hand. You don't need to set all of the rivets
at one time. Setting the final rivets are one of the more enjoyable parts
of building. After hours/days/weeks of prep work you might want to savor
this part.
Gary Ray
601XL 59 hrTT
davgray@sbcglobal.net
Message 2
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Gary,
Excellent post!!
I wondered if anyone else felt the same way I did about riveting. That was the
part I enjoyed the most, also. It was kind of the "pay off" for just a whole
bunch of prep work. I could hardly wait to get to that part, even though sometimes
it was with trepidation, not knowing if I was getting ahead of myself. In
the end: Very satisfying & "Where it's at."
BTW, I have no compressed air. I've built the whole thing with electric tools.
The rivet pulling I did with a "RiveDrill" attachment for a hand drill. I wore
out two of them. Better that than wearing out a hand or two!
Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J
"Gary Ray" <davgray@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>All drill bits are not the same. Many require much higher feed pressures
>even though they cost 3X.
>I found a huge difference between the standard High speed black steel bits
>that are the most common and inexpensive vs the high end triple price bits
>that are more optimized for harder metals. Also supply houses do not seem
>to know there is a difference so they will sell a bit that requires such a
>high feed pressure that they will dent the thin base metal before starting
>the cut.
>
>I had the best luck with sharp standard high speed black steel bit from Home
>Depo. Always start with a small bit 3/32 and work your way up. A higher
>RPM produces less burring of the hole. A good hole is made with the right
>bit and feed pressure.
>
>At $1.68 each replace them when dull. I used about 24 1/8 inch bits for the
>entire aircraft and 12 - 5/16 inch and 24 - 3/32 inch. Plus a 1/8 x 18 inch
>bit and one 5/16 x 18 inch bit and a set of very short bits that came with a
>flex drive for those tight fit or retrofit areas that need to be drilled out
>and redone.
>The air tools are nice because the RPM is higher but I have to admit that I
>used the cordless drill a lot.
>
>Other items include:
>A bandsaw with a wide throat, a Delta 8 inch disc sander w/ a 1 inch x 42
>inch belt sander, a deep throated drill press, a good fly cutter, rapid
>deburring tools, and several sizes of fine toothed files, a good vise, three
>good levels (2 foot, 4 foot, and laser), 4,8,& 12 foot straight edge of
>aluminum strips w/ marks for 20mm 30mm 40mm, 50mm rivet spacing, metric tape
>measure, english tape measure, good Weiss metal shears, Olfa knife, lots of
>clamps and clecos, and and a perfectly flat and square 14 foot x 4 foot
>table. I had the pneumatic rivet puller and preferred the hand pullers even
>on bigger jobs. It takes about one hour to actually do the final riveting
>of one entire wing surface by hand. You don't need to set all of the rivets
>at one time. Setting the final rivets are one of the more enjoyable parts
>of building. After hours/days/weeks of prep work you might want to savor
>this part.
>
>Gary Ray
>601XL 59 hrTT
>davgray@sbcglobal.net
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: First time builder, need some advice :) |
An around the world trip was tried about 3-4 years ago. A person from Roumania
built a Rotax 912 powered CH 701.
He flew from Roumania to Russia (landed in Moscow), the trip was planned for
a two persons flight. In Moscow, he had to trade his partner for an extra fuel
tank sitted on the right seat. He then crossed all of USSR to Siberia where he
crossed the detroit of Bering to USA (Alaska). At this point, it's where he
had his first maintenance done on his Rotax.
He then crossed the border to Canada (Yukon). Then, he flew East all across Canada
to Ottawa. This is where the sh..t hit the fan. The pilot's plan was to
fly north from Ottawa to Groenland and then Back to Europe,,,etc.
The plane was grounded by Canadian officials because the pilot was not allowed
to fly his destination without an instrument rating.
The CH 701 sitted at St-Lazare airport for almost two years, where I believe
it was sold.
If I recall, the flight was detailed on the Internet as Transiberia. To make
a long strory short, this flight really sold me on the longevity of the Rotax
912.
Jean-Paul Roy
royjp@yahoo.ca
Tl: (819)949-2216
Cell:(819)629-9360
---------------------------------
Dcouvrez les styles qui font sensation sur Yahoo! Qubec Avatars
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: First time builder, need some advice :) |
On that line of thought the Jabiru engines (all three models) have been deliberately
kept as simple as possible to meet the demands of the Aussies (and others)
flying into wilderness areas where at best one would expect to find an auto
mechanic. Light, decent hp and torque, fuel efficient, designed to swing a shorter
prop to get its best performance (less climb peformance, better cruise speed
and efficiency) and reduced ground strike potential off field. The down side,
not many trained mechanics out there at this point so you should learn to
work on it yourself. FWIW,
Dred
---- Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> If you're planning an around the world trip, the availability of
> repair parts and maintenance expertise in the event of a breakdown may
> be a major concern.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative Power Systems for GA? |
The technology for a usable electric power system for a light sport aircraft isn't
even close yet. And before somebody yells look at what Sonex is doing I will
again say The technology for a usable electric power system for a light sport
aircraft isn't even close yet.
Battery technology just doesn't have the power density yet. When there are batteries
that weigh the same as 24 gallons of gasoline and can power an aircraft
with the equivalent of 100HP for 4-5 hours then we can talk.
fderfler(at)gmail.com wrote:
> I don't want to start an(other) "off-topic" thread, so you can reply directly
if you wish, but has anyone seen a good discussion of "other than internal combustion"
power for GA aircraft?
>
> My reason for asking is this quote: "Honda claims that their current V-flow
fuel cell stack, 100 kW electric motor and Li-Ion battery weigh the same or less
than a conventional hybrid powertrain producing less power."
> THIS ARTICLE (http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=724661) is talking about alternative sources of automotive power, but they are working at about 130HP. If you know of any aviation discussion threads on fuel cell or hybrid power for GA acft, please let me know.
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151454#151454
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| Subject: | Re: 601 steering slot cure |
One thought came to mind on this, the vinyl tubing you used. What is is temp rated
to?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151458#151458
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| Subject: | New Crazy Guy - Hi Everyone! |
Hi everyone!
Let me introduce myself, Im Alberto Martin from Spain building a 601 XL. My website address is www.iberplanes.es and as soon as I get the crate Ill start to post new information.
Have fun!
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151463#151463
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| Subject: | Re: First time builder, need some advice :) |
Hello,
Information regarding the trip that was described by Jean-Paul Roy can be found
here:
1) http://www.zenithair.com/misc/transiberia.html
2) http://www.worldtranssiberia.com/
Bye!!
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151465#151465
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| Subject: | Re: Header Tank Wanted |
Hello there,
Is it possible to get or buy the plans ? Im building an XL with extended tanks
but I would like to know if a header tank is also possible in case long trips
are mandatory. Any ideas to share?
Thanks in advance,
--------
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151471#151471
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Hi John,
Ive been in contact with Great Plains and I think their 2180 water cooled that makes 120 HP would be a nice choice for you, specially when equipped with a reduction gear. http://www.greatplainsas.com/llc1.html
Mine is a 601 XL and Im installing a Jab, but were thinking on a 701 with such
motor.
You can find more information here => http://www.ch701.com/Engines/alternate%20engines/alternate_engines.htm
Have fun!
--------
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151495#151495
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| Subject: | Re: First time builder, need some advice :) |
thanks so much for all your inputs! I don't think a car engine conversion would
be the right thing for me (at least not for now) as I have little experience
in such things, I think I would narrow down my choice to either the continental
which bryan mentioned due to its widespread maintenance expertise or the jabiru
3300 which many people told me to be a very reliable and relatively simple
to maintain engine, personally I would prefer the jabiru as it is slightly more
economical (range etc.) but more expensive I guess, although the continental
also has a lot of plus points... hmmm... :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151496#151496
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| Subject: | Re: Sealed Batteries -- AGM or Gell |
Dave
I beleive Odessey are RG regenerative batteries not gell cells. RG
batteries are recomended by Bob Nuckolles of AeroElectric as they have a low
internal resistance & are sealed, we have a17 AH fitted. cannot remember the
make off hand but am sure it is RG. Bob also said that Gell Cells give very
poor performance when cold.
Clive
G-CBDG Continental 0-200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@primus.ca>
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sealed Batteries -- AGM or Gell
>
> IMOO, the gel cell battery is the way to go. I used auto batts for the
> first two. Fumes get at the aluminium, you need a sealed battery box with
> breather and if it does ever overcharge you have a real mess.
> I then chose the Odessey. Seven years later still working fine and the
> other big advantage is you don't have to keep charging it every month if
> you don't/can't go flying. In the frozen north (Canada) it just sits
> there for 3/4 months. Twists the engine over just like new. Yes, it
> costs twice as much - but guess what I put in the Spitfire.
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: First time builder, need some advice :) |
Hi there,
When considering cost, Muttituck USA has a great price for its O-200, check this link. http://www.mattituck.com/
O-200-A Continental Engine Overhaul
January 2007
Our Mattituck overhauled O-200 engines are assembled
using all new Continental parts for for increased reliability and Test Cell run.
This includes new Slick magnetos & harness, new spark plugs, new carburetor,
the new one piece starter and clutch assembly, new carburetor and new alternator.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
100% New Parts
$17,995.00
Bye!!
--------
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151503#151503
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| Subject: | Re: 601 steering slot cure |
I wrapped sheet aluminum from a beer can around the threads of my steering
rods to smooth them out. Others filled in the threads with JB Weld.
-- Craig
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: New Crazy Guy - Hi Everyone! |
Hola! Welcome to the list. The people on this list can be very helpful. All
you need to do is ask.
Tim
Do not archive
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151514#151514
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| Subject: | Re: 601 steering slot cure |
I wrapped sheet aluminum from a beer can around the threads of my steering
rods to smooth them out. Others filled in the threads with JB Weld.
+++ Aluminum arrow shafts.
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Header Tank Wanted |
Alberto, the header tank really won't work very well in the 601XL. If you need
more fuel get the long range tank option from Zenith.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151519#151519
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| Subject: | 701 strut cuff alignment |
A while back somebody wanted to know how to align the streamline lift
strut cuffs in the same plane...well I did too and finally figured it
out.
Gather up a digital level and a camera tripod or other suitable support.
Lay the digital level against the longitudinal axis(leveling reference)
and note the reading. For practical purposes this is the top of the
fuselage about halfway between the tail and wing.
Cleco the cuff in place on the strut.
Set one end of the level on the lift strut. Set the other end on top of
the tripod. Adjust the tripod up/down til it reads the same as when
against the londitudinal axis and measure down 1/2 the diameter of the
strut(14 mm on mine). This is where the trailing edge of the cuff goes.
Do this top and bottom each strut and your cuffs should be aligned with
the longitudinal axis and in the same plane with one another. The jury
strut holds it in the middle and I used one poprivet at each end.
I used the long axis as a reference cause I guessed it was somewhere
near streamlined at cruise. You might guess something different for
that.
Joe
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress |
The temp. limitation is a valid concern, and
probably the weak point in my particular installation, but I have no numbers
to go by. I can only say that, short of a fire, I don't expect it will get
warm enough in that location to be a problem. If it was something that had
potentially serious consequences upon failure, I would certainly be looking
more closely at that. I could replace the vinyl with thin aluminum tubing,
although it may not slide as freely, and might want to rattle. I may do that
if I have it apart again.
Probably should start a new thread, but I have my canopy
installation nearly complete. It was challenging, but that was in large part
due to self imposed causes. (1) I'm really too fussy about a perfect fit,
and that takes extra time, and (2) I raised the entire canopy about an inch
from standard position, because of my height. I flew the factory plane, and
while I had head clearance, It was minimal and more would be welcome.
Raising the canopy requires considerable extra work and time for just an
inch, but it turned out well. I'm glad I did it. If I learned anything that
might be of help to others, it would be this.--- I made temptates for the
front (and in my case, rear) trim strips using printing press aluminum
(.007"thick). I got it from our local newspaper. (I had to grovel
shamelessly to obtain a few sheets). It cuts with sissors and clecoes can
simply be pushed through it. I used several pieces per template and duct
taped them together as needed. A 2 inch piece of the rubber seal strip
served to adjust the clearance gap for a good seal without too much
pressure. The trim strips have a complex curve top and bottom when finished,
and I can't imagine getting them right without a system similar to this.
This thin sheet aluminum has the ideal characteristics for this job.
I also had to slightly dog-leg the lower canopy latch brackets to
get a flush outer skin fit while still maintaining the required bolt edge
distance where the bolts penetrate the upper front longerons. Wow, that
really sounds confusing. I wanted the rear side of the canopy frame to
be flush with the side of the plane below it. (does that help?)
Lynn
601XL / Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:13 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 steering slot cure
>
> <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>
> One thought came to mind on this, the vinyl tubing you used. What is is
> temp rated to?
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151458#151458
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress |
OK, then this brings up a good question. Has anyone tested to see what the temp
is around the firewall of a 601XL? If we have that number it is easy to test
materiel we use there?
ding(at)tbscc.com wrote:
> The temp. limitation is a valid concern, and
> probably the weak point in my particular installation, but I have no numbers
> to go by. I can only say that, short of a fire, I don't expect it will get
> warm enough in that location to be a problem. If it was something that had
> potentially serious consequences upon failure, I would certainly be looking
> more closely at that. I could replace the vinyl with thin aluminum tubing,
> although it may not slide as freely, and might want to rattle. I may do that
> if I have it apart again.-
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151544#151544
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 601 steering slot cure |
I replaced the stock steering rods with steel rod from the local hardware
store. I threaded the ends as required, but the section that passes thru
the firewall slots remains smooth.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:31 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601 steering slot cure
>
> I wrapped sheet aluminum from a beer can around the threads of my steering
> rods to smooth them out. Others filled in the threads with JB Weld.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
> --
12/10/2007 2:51 PM
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 601 steering slot cure |
Lavatory faucet supply line (chrome plated copper tubing) sliding
through nylon grommets.
On Dec 10, 2007, at 3:32 PM, <tjs22t@verizon.net> <tjs22t@verizon.net>
wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> I wrapped sheet aluminum from a beer can around the threads of my
>> steering
>> rods to smooth them out. Others filled in the threads with JB Weld.
>>
> +++ Aluminum arrow shafts.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress |
Gig
My 601XL w/ WW cowl and WW corvair engine routinely tests about 100 degrees
above ambient behind the engine.
Gary Ray
davgray@sbcglobal.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 5:21 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress
<wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>
> OK, then this brings up a good question. Has anyone tested to see what the
temp is around the firewall of a 601XL? If we have that number it is easy to
test materiel we use there?
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative Power Systems for GA? |
Even in cars, hybrid systems are all but useless for long cross
country trips. All of the economy advantage for hybrid systems is
achieved in city driving because kinetic energy is reclaimed by
running the electric motor as a generator to recharge the battery
while slowing down in city traffic instead of wasting it as heat in
the brakes. They actually get better economy in the city than on the
highway. I can't see a hybrid system being of much use in an airplane.
One major problem with a battery driven system is that all of the
energy must be carried in the battery. With a fuel burning engine,
only the fuel must be carried, the oxidizer is pulled out of the air
as needed. The air makes up more than 9/10ths of the mass needed to
get power from the engine.
On Dec 10, 2007, at 11:07 AM, Gig Giacona wrote:
> >
>
> The technology for a usable electric power system for a light sport
> aircraft isn't even close yet. And before somebody yells look at
> what Sonex is doing I will again say The technology for a usable
> electric power system for a light sport aircraft isn't even close yet.
>
> Battery technology just doesn't have the power density yet. When
> there are batteries that weigh the same as 24 gallons of gasoline
> and can power an aircraft with the equivalent of 100HP for 4-5 hours
> then we can talk.
>
>
> fderfler(at)gmail.com wrote:
>> I don't want to start an(other) "off-topic" thread, so you can
>> reply directly if you wish, but has anyone seen a good discussion
>> of "other than internal combustion" power for GA aircraft?
>>
>> My reason for asking is this quote: "Honda claims that their
>> current V-flow fuel cell stack, 100 kW electric motor and Li-Ion
>> battery weigh the same or less than a conventional hybrid
>> powertrain producing less power."
>> THIS ARTICLE (http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=724661
>> ) is talking about alternative sources of automotive power, but
>> they are working at about 130HP. If you know of any aviation
>> discussion threads on fuel cell or hybrid power for GA acft, please
>> let me know.
>> --
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress |
If that is the case then there ought to be LOTS of plastics we can use and just
triple the test temp for good measure.
I assume that is 100 F right?
davgray(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Gig
>
> My 601XL w/ WW cowl and WW corvair engine routinely tests about 100 degrees
> above ambient behind the engine.
>
>
> Gary Ray
> davgray@sbcglobal.net
>
> ---
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151567#151567
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Drills and Drill press recommendations |
I bought bulk packages of 3/32", 1/8" and 5/32" drill bits from Harbor Freight.
I bought 60 of the 3/32" (10 bits per pack) for less than $2.00 per pack. When
they go dull, I chuck it and get another one. At that price it was a good bargain
for me. Hope this helps.
Dave Nixon
CH601 XL Jabiru 3300
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151571#151571
Message 27
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http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151572#151572
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress |
Zenith has a steering slot cure that goes on the AMD version but it isn't
available to us. That kind of pisses me off...... It was on the online parts
drawing _http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/parts6xb13.pdf_
(http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/parts6xb13.pdf) check out 6B7-4R, 6B7-4L, 6B7-5.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/10/2007 5:05:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ding@tbscc.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dingfelder" <ding@tbscc.com>
The temp. limitation is a valid concern, and
probably the weak point in my particular installation, but I have no numbers
to go by. I can only say that, short of a fire, I don't expect it will get
warm enough in that location to be a problem. If it was something that had
potentially serious consequences upon failure, I would certainly be looking
more closely at that. I could replace the vinyl with thin aluminum tubing,
although it may not slide as freely, and might want to rattle. I may do that
if I have it apart again.
Probably should start a new thread, but I have my canopy
installation nearly complete. It was challenging, but that was in large part
due to self imposed causes. (1) I'm really too fussy about a perfect fit,
and that takes extra time, and (2) I raised the entire canopy about an inch
from standard position, because of my height. I flew the factory plane, and
while I had head clearance, It was minimal and more would be welcome.
Raising the canopy requires considerable extra work and time for just an
inch, but it turned out well. I'm glad I did it. If I learned anything that
might be of help to others, it would be this.--- I made temptates for the
front (and in my case, rear) trim strips using printing press aluminum
(.007"thick). I got it from our local newspaper. (I had to grovel
shamelessly to obtain a few sheets). It cuts with sissors and clecoes can
simply be pushed through it. I used several pieces per template and duct
taped them together as needed. A 2 inch piece of the rubber seal strip
served to adjust the clearance gap for a good seal without too much
pressure. The trim strips have a complex curve top and bottom when finished,
and I can't imagine getting them right without a system similar to this.
This thin sheet aluminum has the ideal characteristics for this job.
I also had to slightly dog-leg the lower canopy latch brackets to
get a flush outer skin fit while still maintaining the required bolt edge
distance where the bolts penetrate the upper front longerons. Wow, that
really sounds confusing. I wanted the rear side of the canopy frame to
be flush with the side of the plane below it. (does that help?)
Lynn
601XL / Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:13 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 steering slot cure
>
> <wr.giacona@suddenlink.net>
>
> One thought came to mind on this, the vinyl tubing you used. What is is
> temp rated to?
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151458#151458
>
>
>
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Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress |
I saw those new parts on the diagram a while ago and asked the factory about
them. The folks in MO said that they had just borrowed the diagram from AMD
or Canada and didn't make those parts. I believe they come out of Zenith
Canada. The steering rods on the "super quick build kits" which come out of
Canada (basically an unassembled AMD) also come with smooth steering rods
with a short section of threads at one end.
It isn't a complex design, I independently came up with the same idea before
I saw the diagram. I did two things differently: instead of the jog which
gives the slide room to move I used a separate spacer. And my plate had an
"L" which allowed me to rivet them to the nose gear channel 6B8-2.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601 steering slot cure / canopy progress
Zenith has a steering slot cure that goes on the AMD version but it isn't
available to us. That kind of pisses me off...... It was on the online parts
drawing http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/parts6xb13.pdf check out
6B7-4R, 6B7-4L, 6B7-5.
Jeff
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Drill bits - recommendations |
Gary,
You are so right. There are many differeny type drills available for general
use today. The best drill for aircraft work in alumnim is a split point
jobbers length drill made to NAS 907 Type A or B standards. The points are
split so that there is a 4 degree positive chisel angle on the center or
"chisel" of the drill. This also relieves the heel to give you an immediate
penetration. This reduces end thrust requirements by about 40%. This means
that the drill will be less apt to "walk", and it usually penetrates where
you put it. As a result of the decreased thrust requirements it might even
last longer under normal usage.
The NAS 907 type C has the same point but it is called a screw machine
length drill, and it is shorter than the jobbers length drill and easier to
use "free handed".
You can ffind these on the inernet at MSC Supply.
Best Regards..................................................Dick W.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Ray" <davgray@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:58 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Drill bits - recommendations
>
>
> All drill bits are not the same. Many require much higher feed pressures
> even though they cost 3X.
> I found a huge difference between the standard High speed black steel bits
> that are the most common and inexpensive vs the high end triple price bits
> that are more optimized for harder metals. Also supply houses do not seem
> to know there is a difference so they will sell a bit that requires such a
> high feed pressure that they will dent the thin base metal before starting
> the cut.
>
> I had the best luck with sharp standard high speed black steel bit from
> Home
> Depo. Always start with a small bit 3/32 and work your way up. A higher
> RPM produces less burring of the hole. A good hole is made with the right
> bit and feed pressure.
>
> At $1.68 each replace them when dull. I used about 24 1/8 inch bits for
> the
> entire aircraft and 12 - 5/16 inch and 24 - 3/32 inch. Plus a 1/8 x 18
> inch
> bit and one 5/16 x 18 inch bit and a set of very short bits that came with
> a
> flex drive for those tight fit or retrofit areas that need to be drilled
> out
> and redone.
> The air tools are nice because the RPM is higher but I have to admit that
> I
> used the cordless drill a lot.
>
> Other items include:
> A bandsaw with a wide throat, a Delta 8 inch disc sander w/ a 1 inch x 42
> inch belt sander, a deep throated drill press, a good fly cutter, rapid
> deburring tools, and several sizes of fine toothed files, a good vise,
> three
> good levels (2 foot, 4 foot, and laser), 4,8,& 12 foot straight edge of
> aluminum strips w/ marks for 20mm 30mm 40mm, 50mm rivet spacing, metric
> tape
> measure, english tape measure, good Weiss metal shears, Olfa knife, lots
> of
> clamps and clecos, and and a perfectly flat and square 14 foot x 4 foot
> table. I had the pneumatic rivet puller and preferred the hand pullers
> even
> on bigger jobs. It takes about one hour to actually do the final riveting
> of one entire wing surface by hand. You don't need to set all of the
> rivets
> at one time. Setting the final rivets are one of the more enjoyable parts
> of building. After hours/days/weeks of prep work you might want to savor
> this part.
>
> Gary Ray
> 601XL 59 hrTT
> davgray@sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Drill bits - recommendations |
Do not archive
>From the archives:
The two most common twist drill types off the shelf are:
1. High speed steel, 118 degree point angle, standard chisel point.
2. Cobalt steel, 135 degree point angle, split point.
The standard chisel point tends to "walk" when started into work without
center punching. The split point is considered self centering and center
punching for hole location is not required. Cobalt steel is high speed
steel with 6 to 8 percent cobalt added which makes it more wear resistant,
giving more holes between sharpenings. Although either type works well in
standard materials, for the small price difference, I always buy the cobalt
split points.
For a detailed article on drill point geometry, including altering drills to
drill plexiglass, try this link:
http://www.newmantools.com/machines/drillpoint.html
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re:First time builder, need some advice:) |
Great idea! Avgas could be hard to find on the other side of the world. I
heard that Avgas is now unavailable at Le Borget in Paris. Auto gas may be hard
to find without alcohol. Vapor lock would be an unpleasant experience crossing
a mountain range at altitude. I just retired as a pilot for an international
company that flies all over the world. I've got to say that you can find
aviation turbine fuel in every remote corner of the world. The world is awash in
kerosene. That points to a Diesel powerplant. They all burn Jet A and oddly, some
are even approved for Auto Diesel (#2) fuel. A tip; if you find some JP 4,
don't use it in a Diesel. Its a wide cut fuel that is aromatic with some
characteristics of av gas. Use only in turbines. Some engines that meet C.H.'s
weight/power criteria are: Wilksch in the UK. They have 100, 120 & 160 HP liquid
cooled models that are flying on customer planes. Diesel Air LTD (also UK) has
the DAIR 100 flying on a Luscombe. None delivered yet. The US project by Vulcan
is called the Raptor 105 that is intended to compete head to head with the
Rotax 912. Only a prototype so far. There is also the Centurion by Thielert that
is at C.H.'s upper limit for weight and power. They won't sell you one unless
your name is Cessna. Zoche in Germany has been on the verge of flying their
line of radial air cooled Diesels for over 20 years now. There are others being
delivered to customers that are higher weight and power, like DeltaHawk. If a
Diesel is available for your first flight, it will likely be the Wilksch.
Models are flying now in Pietenpol, Europa and Thorp T-211. If you do make the
flight, take spare fuel filters with you and a funnel. Turbine fuel is dispensed
through big honking nozzles. It weighs 6.8 lbs per US gallon Vs 6 for gas. A
rule of thumb you can do in your head is 15 gal equals about 100 lbs. The
higher density means your tanks now hold 13% more energy. Long range tanks with
no
modifications to the tanks.
Bob 601XL/Lyc Do not archive
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